The Ringer-Verse - The Versies: An Awards Show for the MCU

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

As the next part of Phase 4 of the MCU is upon us, Mal, Charles, and Van take us though the first-ever "Versies" awards given out to achievements in the MCU over the years! They are also joined by illustrious guest presenters like Chris Ryan, Musa Okwonga, Sean Fennessey, and more to present and crown the awards for "Best Broke Boy" (08:09), "Best Character Arc" (47:43), "Best Villain Monologue," (96:45) and so much more. Hosts: Mallory Rubin, Charles Holmes, Van Lathan Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal and TD St. Matthew-Daniel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, I'm Shay Serrano. And I'm Brandon Jinks Jenkins. We have a new show called No Skips with Jinks and Shea. In it, we discuss the most unskippable albums in hip-hop history. New episodes drop on Thursdays, only on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through.

a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms, or need a vaccine.

Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfairadio.com. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Predict the spread, total points and even the game winner.

Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply.

See terms at vandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Avengers! And welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin, co-hosts of Binge mode, head of editorial here at the Ringer. And it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to Avengers HQ. But to join us on the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things nerd culture and fandom. And it is a big day, a memorable day here at the Ringerverse, because it is our first full Ringerverse family crossover event.

You know them individually as the hosts of Higher Learning with Van Laithen and Rachel Lindsay and the Ringer music show respectively, but together. You know them as the Midnight boys. Van Lathen and Charles Holmes. Pugh, pew, pew. What's up, guys? Oh, man. So excited.

What's going on? It's great to be here. This feels like the OG Avengers, you know, we're coming together. We're not quite a team yet. We just need a push. Yeah, who's our Colson? Who's our Colson? No, no.

It's great that I have to die in order for that to happen, but. A little beat for Steve. We got Steve. Jomey is Nick Fury. He's actually even dressed like him. You see the drip? Yeah, we got with Steve. Or maybe TD might be Nick Fury.

I'm not sure. Wait, wait, Van. Now, who are you guys? I know who I am in the Avengers already. I'm a hawk guy. No one likes me. I was like, go ahead. Wow.

I was like, wow. I don't know. I don't think you could pick on behalf of yourself. You know, your teammates have to tell you who you are. Oh, all right. I find you guys pick for me. Yeah. Who would I choose?

I wouldn't choose Hawkeye. You know who I think you are? I think your banner. Banner? That's who I think. Yeah, you have a very banner energy. You're continuously trying to fight back the whole of bad takes inside of you. You know, the other guy is always trying to come out.

And you got this kind of, you got this kind of quirky, lovable, a bookish charm like banner. That's what you are your banner. Hey, you're my Tony Stark then. I'm always

trying to get you off the ledge. You're like, I want to put a suit of armor around the world. And I'm like, dude, hey man.

Who's your Ultron then? Who's your Ultron then? Who are you birthing together? I don't know. What have we created? I guess midnight court.

Yeah. Maybe midnight court. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So why are we together today? Why have we

joined forces here. It's for our special event. Because today, you're not only the Midnight Boys, you're members of the Academy. It is time for the inaugural versus the Ringer versus award show to celebrate our shared passions. And one of those shared passions is, of course, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And we thought this would be a fun moment for this, because we're on the eve of Loki, which debuts next week, June 9th. Black Widow is premiering a month after that, July 9th, the first film of Phase 4, figure what better time to not only look back at the first three phases of the MCU and the first two entries in Phase 4 to toast some of our

favorite characters and moments, but 23 movies, two shows, a decade plus years into this shared journey. We're on the brink of unrelenting Phase 4 goodness. It's not going to stop once we hit Loki. There's going to be a new show on Disney Plus and new movie coming. Basically, all the time. And so this warrants a moment of celebration, a moment of awards toasting. Charles is always ready with the take. Van is a literal Oscar winner. I'm just kind of here hanging out. But we're really excited. And the three of us are going to be the Verses Academy. We're going to ultimately name the winner of each of our categories. But how are the Versi's going to work? You might ask. We've got some special guests joining us today. You've got some special guests joining us today.

We've already heard from Stephen Jomey. We're going to hear from so many more folks who are our fellow MCU obsessives here in the Ringer universe. And each presenter created their own award. The thing that was on their mind or in their heart the most all this time later, they're going to share the nominations. And then we're going to come in to discuss. Is there a glaring omission?

Will we be able to come to a shared conclusion after heated debate? How many times will we get played? off the stage by Steve's producerial music as we run over time. Who knows? But I can't wait to find out. A few reminders, though, before we start today. We're going to hand out our virtual hardware in a minute here. Programming note. The ringerverse, just like Loki, we're heading into an alternate timeline starting

next week. You guys, the Midnight Boys, you're going to be with the listeners every Wednesday with the instant reaction on the latest Loki episode. And then I will be back on Fridays to dive further into the character arcs, theories, mailback questions. Follow the pod on Spotify, wherever you get you podcasts. Follow us across our social channels. And of course, remember for today's show, your friendly neighborhood spoiler warning.

And it's a blanket one for all of the MCU. The Infinity Saga, the beginning of phase four, comics canon, all of it. Proceed with much more caution than Trevor Slattery exhibited at his secret manse. You've been warned. All right. Any final words before we dive into the Verses?

Oh, that's a great word. But one final word for me that I'd like to say is, I just want to let everybody know that that was a fantastic intro by Mal, but I won't let you guys know something here that I hate, given the spoiler warnings. I just want you guys to know that at the end of the original Iron Man, Tony Stark says I am Iron Man. And the shit came out when I was still in my 20s. So if you haven't seen it by now, I don't care.

Now, we're going to do it because it's what we have to do. But if you haven't seen the original Thor that came out when I still had a full-fledged hair line, I cannot help you. I'm getting sick of this. So do this favor. You're here with the Midnight Boys? You're here in the House of Mal? Watch the movies.

Watch the movies. Okay. So that's my, I'm getting old. I'm getting crotcheting now. So that's my addendum right there to us giving a spoiler warning for a movie that came out, for movies that came out during the Obama. administration. The first Iron Man movie came out the same month that I graduated college.

And I am now 100 years old. So that was a long time ago. Whoa. That's guys. Yeah. However, the Falcon and the Winter Soldier aired me a weeks ago. Don't ask Jomey how old he was.

It was my first year of middle school when Iron Man came out. Wait, what? So. Is that what I'm saying? Are you 15? No, I'm actually 17. Okay. Let's put some respect on my name.

Right. Yeah, it's crazy. Charles. Yeah, what's up now? Kick things off. Head out to the stage. Do your tight ten. Opening monologue.

And they go right in to our first award. All right. So my first award is the best broke boy moment. And here are the people in our categories. Number one, quick silver shoes in Age of Ultron. And I'm not saying what shoes they are because it's disrespectful. the shoes that he put on. We'll talk about it later. Second, Starlord using a Zoon and Guardians of the Galaxy two. Third, we have Wanda driving a Buick Brano, an Avenger driving a Buick in Wanda Vision. And last,

but certainly not least, that cheap skate Anthony Stark, not paying the Avengers, So we had to see my man Sam Wilson begging for a loan in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Guys, please, I leave it up to y'all. What's the brokest moment in the MCU? Dan, what do you think? It's very easy.

The rest of these, I'm not even sure, like, qualify as broke boy monies. First of all, I'll go down them. First of all, Quicksilver shoes. I mean, the guy, you know, doesn't matter what shoes he's wearing. He's not like that. like somebody is it's not like dude

doesn't matter. Van. What shoes are you wearing right now? I'm barefoot right now. What was the last pair of shoes you have? Yes. All birds. Wait, really?

Okay. Really? All birds. Yeah, and it doesn't matter. You know, let me tell you guys something. God damn. Nice. I wear the, I went for a run

and I went for running in an all birds. And I got to be honest with you guys. It's going further than that. I'm going to get to the sketchers part of my life here pretty soon. You know what? I'm looking around for some nice Nike's to put on to run for the neighborhood. And guess what? I don't care with these little whippersnappers that are TikTok and not stop and care about me

when I'm around the neighborhood trying to get my sweat in. I don't care. So I can't relate to Quicksilver shoes. He's the fastest man in the world. Who cares what kind of shoes he's wearing? All right. Well, Van, I will just say this. Before we got on this podcast, Van was openly thirsting for Jennifer Anderson,

during our friend's face. And now he's talking about rocking all birds. You saw more light skin than me, Van. But continue. I mean, maybe so. I mean, I don't know how you connect Jennifer Aniston, the beautiful, wondrous Caucasian creature that she is. Okay.

And Star Lord using the Zoom, just really quickly, I feel like that's clearly a product placement crossover issue right there. I feel like he can't really rock the iPod because he can't get in bed in bed with Apple. They ask that so that. The Buick Verano, I'm going to be honest with you. You've offended a large portion of America who would love to have a snazzy, a Buick Verano. That's like a, that's like to a lot of people, that's, that's cool.

The all birds of cars, you know. The all birds of cars. Trusty. The brokest thing that's ever happened in the Marvel and the most predatory, by the way, is the fact that Sam, after fighting intergalactic aliens, had to ask for a loan, okay? Terrible. The fact that he had to ask for a loan,

he's like basically working in the Amazon fulfillment center, not getting anything from Jeff Bezo. It's ridiculous. So that gets my vote for sure. I am also casting my vote for Sam and the loan scene in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. But to run through the other ones quickly, here's the thing with Quicksilver.

It's not actually about the shoes. The shoes are a custom Adidas Prime Boost put out as merch for that movie, and they're actually pretty good, and I love a Boost Soul. I'm more of an Ultra Boost person than a Prime Boost person, but the shoe is not the problem. The problem is the outfit. I noted this during the binge mode Marvel run, but Quicksilver's outfits in Ultron, basically my quarantine walk outfit,

Like very, very basic ath leisure. It's also very reminiscent of the outfit that Steve Rogers wears to split logs in half with his bare hands. Like, it's just casual wear. It's not what you should be wearing when you're out fighting as a hero. And the other things about that that are outrageous, what is the value really of signing up for Hydra if you're not even going to get some sweet swag out of it? That's just embarrassed. Okay? And then why fuck with the iconography from the comics? The powder blue with the lightning bolt. Like Quicksilver could have been the chargers of the MCU. And instead we're dunking on him on our awards show. That's brutal. So even though Sam and the Sam scene has to be the pick here, Tony not paying the Avengers, I think we have to say that this Quicksilver situation is a strong runner up because it is that the outfit is just mortifying. terrible. I actually, I really like the Zune. I think that it's a very sweet little thing because it's

so charmingly dated. And the way that that then connects Yandu with Quill after Yandu's death, Quill listening to father and son, just booting up the cat Stevens with Groot on his lap. Beautiful moment. I love it. So I think of that very fondly. And, you know, I think with the Buick, we're just, we're really, you know, we've seen, we've seen a lot of car automobile, placement across the MCU. We've gotten some Lexus action, some BMW action, some Accure action, but it's mostly been an Audi experience. And so we're grading on the Audi curve, and that's a, that's a tough thing. That's a tough thing for Buick. But it felt very appropriate somehow for Westview, like

aptly suburban. I didn't mind it. Or apt for Wanda, because she's kind of boring and just as entertaining as watching paint dry, as a Buick-Ferrano is. God damn. Do you just kill Wanda Maximoff? She was great. She wasn't great. I just said she's got a boring. She's there like a Pueick. So I agree.

I'm taking it off the list. I personally vote for Quicksilver. I would never wear Prime Boost in my life. I would rather walk barefoot across glass than put on Prime Boost when Ultra Buse is standing right there. So that Quicksilver has my phone. Well, let's, yeah, you know, but the time frame ultimately where we are in the boost evolution. You know what?

I am going to switch my vote, actually. The Quicksilver thing just bothers me so much. It's just such a bad outfit. But I'm not voting specifically because of the shoes. I want the record to reflect that I am I am I'm casting my vote because of the outfit not the shoes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

It's brutal. It's brutal. I'm really glad you guys came off the Tony Stark Slander because for one, he was dead. Right? Let's just let's make that clear. The man was in his grave socially distance six feet under. All right. That's one.

Two, while he was alive, Sam didn't have to pay for anything. Right? That was, of course, until Civil War and he broke off. But when you're an Avenger, you don't have to pay for rent, ain't got to pay for food, none of that. All right? So put some respect on my guy's name, in life and in death, all right? So basically being an Avenger is like being an NCAA athlete.

Like, you get all of this swag for free, but you get no living wage when you got to take your ass back to the ghetto in the offseason? No way. Wanda and Vision had a studio apartment. That's how broke Anthony Stark is. They have a studio apartment. Bruh, that can't be right. Like, the reality is that,

the reality is if I fly through the air and stab an outrider with my wings, I don't want to have to worry about the family boat. This is ridiculous. I'm not going to play for North Carolina. I'm like a grown person working. You know what I mean?

That sham should have been like, hey, Tony, man, can you, you know, slap a couple honey down from my family? I feel like Tony would say yes. now Tony died and you can't really ask him you know in death you can't really go to the astral plane but like hey Tony I need a couple hundred What about Pepper?

That sounds like Sam should have called her up That sounds like a Sam problem me Where's his phone? You know what I'm saying? She's not in the group chat Using his phone to send Bucky all the text messages that Bucky wasn't responding to Bucky got to come out of pocket for

therapy Sam got to get the boat You know what I mean? It's just crazy. The whole thing is whack. And it's really stupid, to be honest, because it's not that many people. It's not that many people.

We're not talking about a lot of people in terms of being Avengers here. We're talking about like a core 12 people that you got to take care of. And not only that, what the Wakandans? I'm not letting them off the hook either. Wait, really quick before we go. What's the starting salary for an Avenger?

What would you not even like take the meeting for? $250,000. a year. $250,000 a year to be an Avenger. Absolutely not. I need a Jordan Clarkson type deal. I need, I need, no. I need four years, $64 million off top.

And then we can talk. They're not going to give you that, okay? They're not going to give you that. $250, quarter mill, and I'll do some kids parties on the side. But like, but $250. Come on, man. Okay, final votes. Quicksilver spit.

Final vote for me, the long. Quicksilver spit, quicks silver spit. All right, I'm going quicksilvers fit too. Quicksilver, our first winner, but really, given the nature of the category, our first loser. It's like he just deliberately ran into an oncoming spray of bullets for no reason all over again. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach.

camping, then you'd want a cargo liner, or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply.

Services not available in all areas. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com. Enter your license plate or VIN and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand.

Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Okay. Moving to our next award. It is time to hear from our first guest presenter. strolling down our virtual red carpet to once again tell the world that he's a quote,

John Walker guy. It's David Shoemaker. Hey, humanoid, David Shoemaker here, host of the Mask Man show and the press box, but I might be better known here in the ringerverse for being the world's number one U.S. agent fan, which I revealed on Mal's very first show. So with that in mind, here's the award I'll be presenting here at the inaugural Verses, the award for the most charismatic MCU villain. Number one, Thanos. No explanation needed, really.

He's a top seat. Number two, loki. Top seed from the Asgard Division. Number three, Baron Zemo. What a dude. Number four, Mysterio, narrowly edging out ego in the, I know I should be rooting against this guy, but damn if he's not kind of winning me over category.

And last but not least, representing the regular guys, the guys I'd just like to have a beer with and maybe fly around in the air with, because why not? Vulture! a.k. Adrian Tooms. Apologies to Killmonger and Helen, Justin Hammer, and Emil Blonsky and Grandmaster, who's really not much of a villain anyway.

Wow. Definitely the first time anyone has apologized to Blonsky. That was really something. Thank you, David. Academy. What do you think? First of all, before we assess David's picks, any glaring omissions here, because this is a loaded category. Killmonger. There's no way that Killmonger,

like, shout out to David. but Loki ain't even a villain no more. Loki, Loki reformed himself years ago. Loki to me is as much of a villain as Bucky is, right? So Loki reformed himself years ago. Look, I know what you guys are saying. Man, Loki, 200 people.

Look, this is not something we care about in the MCU. Wanda killed a bunch of people. I'll just be honest with you. This is not something we care about. A lot of these people, they kill a lot of people, man. they kill is what they do. But then they do something and then Cap says, that wasn't you, buddy.

Remember when you used to put lifts in your shoes and we forget about it all in one movie, one scene even. But Killmonger to me is the most is the winner of this category because he's the only guy that you have to really be like, wait a minute, is he right? You know what I mean? So I think that would be the most glaring of mission for me.

Charles? Oh, you know, it's a straight winner for me. You know, there's not, many, like, have you ever gone to, like, the club with just your boys? You got to be a certain type of person and, like, get your moves off with no honey's around. You're just feeling the music so much, like, just, like, so much. Like, you're just in it.

And your boys are like, damn, like, he's really having the time of his life right now. You're picking Zemo because of the dance. Oh, that dance easily makes him the most likable part. Like, like, dog, name me how many people you know in your life that you can go to a club club with solo just with them and have the time in your life. There's not many, okay? You can't do that with Killmonger.

Kilmonger is like, is ruining the whole vibe. He's talking about just like, we were kings and you're like, dog, you're scaring, you're scaring the girls. You know what? So you gotta be Zemo for me.

I'm picking Zemo. The music comes on and Kilmonger's like, yo, this club should be ours. And everybody's like, Bro, do you want a Long Island ice tea or not? That's hilarious to me, bro. Like, that's funny as fuck.

So I agree that the killmonger has to be in the consideration set here. Absolutely has to be. I think that the distinction here, not to go into like full editor mode, 12 minutes in here, but it's kind of a, it's a matter of semantics. David framed the category as most charismatic villain. Right? And so that, like, from the jump eliminates Thanos. He's the most consequential villain in the MCU. But is he the most charismatic?

Absolutely not. I actually think that Zemo, for the reasons that you just outlined, among others, I mean, he's able to bring you, whether you as the viewer or the other characters in a scene with him, under his spell to the point where you then have to stop yourself, almost in. revulsion. Maybe I'm projecting here and say, why was I hanging on to every word? He says like that, but that's the nature of his power. You know, from the moment in civil war when he says, an empire toppled by its enemies can rise again, but one which crumbles from within, that's dead forever, to be able to deliver that line with such impact and then also sing lullabies and hand out Turkish delight to children and then also dance at the club. That's a rare, rare, rare caliber of villain.

I think that there's a stealth case to be made, not what I'm actually prepared to make, but just for the sake of discussion. Do you think you could make the case for Vulture simply because, again, the idea of charisma, there's something about the guy next door, literally my girlfriend's dad aspect of his character and homecoming that is really effective

and impactful, the car sequence when he's dropping them off at the dance in particular, that whole speech, hey, I just save your life. Now, what do you say? Thank you. That's like chills down the spine, that sequence. But the...

Go on. Charismatic? Not a villain. Not a villain. Man. Not a villain. You're reminding me of Thor right now. Loki says, save his brother's life at the end.

Like, looks at him and says Odinson. When he looks at him and he says, Odinson, he is saying that I am bad. a part of the family. The old Loki is dead. And we don't even know, really, if that Loki was under control of the Mindstone.

Like, he's not, like he, if he was being influenced, like that, that, to be honest with you, Loki, not even a villain. He's a anti-hero. He's not a villain anymore. We can have him if you want.

His redemption arc is one of the most fulfilling aspects of the MCU, but it does not negate the fact for the bulk of the MCU on the road to that redemption. He is a villain. In a way that is,

again, to the spirit of the category incredibly charismatic because you find yourself invested in him and rooting for him, despite the fact that he is committing mass atrocities and is delighted to be doing so. You, Mal, you did not root for Loki one time

into the Avengers movie. The time that, like, the time that Loki was actually a villain, no one rooted for him. No one rooted for him in the Avengers movie when he was actually a villain. He had a couple of lines that he got off that were cool, but nobody rooted for him in this movie. The only time you root for Loki,

to be honest with you, is what he's either showing vulnerability, or like when his mom, when he was in, like when his mom got killed, when he was doing vulnerability, or when he is actually back on Thor's side. That's kind of when Loki's cool. And in Ragnarok, he's

kind of acting sort of in concert with Thor, for the most part. So Loki's cool again. But as a villain, even in the first Thor, nobody rooted for Lokey's. As a villain, nobody rules for Loki. You only root for him when he's a hero or a hero. He's a hero.

He's a charismatic. He's that he weaves in and out, not only of various variant forms, but of these states of existential dread and despair and ambition. That's why he's so interesting. Charisma is magnetism. It's charm. It's somebody having a hallucinogenic pull over you. And that is Loki more than any other character in the MCU. I cast my vote.

Wow. Wait. Would you go to the club with Loki? would you have like a drink with Loki? I would not. As you know, I don't really leave my home and clubs are not a big part of my life. But in theory, I'd be delighted to.

Like, Loki's at friends you don't invite around your friends. Like, we could go to the mall together. No, because, no. You're going to get in a fight at the club and you're going to look to Loki to help you and then all of a sudden he's going to disappear. Which is it? Is it that he's not eligible from the category? It's not going to even be

anybody there. So villainous that you don't trust him around your friends. I personally, I personally don't think that he's a villain. I don't think he should be in here. I will swap out Loki for Killemonger, right? But that's cool. But I am working with what David Shoemaker has put forth

and he's got a good list. No love here for Mysterio. Nobody has even mentioned him. Oh, Mysterio. I like Mysterio. And I would put, if this was a different category, like most handsome villains, that goddamn Jake Gyllenhaal, Jesus. The only time he ever missed was

a night crawler. Nightcrawler, he legitimately looked like a creepy Grimman. But other than that, that guy's great. Five second sidebar. One of the first times I knew I was out the door at TMZ is we were all in the meeting, right? Like the TMZ show that they taped

and I had just seen Nightcrawler and I looked at Harvey, I was like, Harvey, man, I didn't know, you didn't tell me that they did your biography. Oh my God. And he was like, he was like, what? I was like, I saw it. They got it on Netflix. Like they did

a biography of you, Harvey Levin, and it was on Netflix. It's called Nightcrawler. They got Jake Gyllenhaal playing you. He's like, serious? He goes to watch the movie. He comes back the next day. Like, van, that's super insulting.

I was like, oh, it's your life, though. Anyway, look, I'll be honest with you guys here. So the clear-cut answer here is Zemo. Although I could also make the argument that when we started to like Zemo is actually when Zimo was helping the protagonists. So I could make an argument that Zemo was kind of not a villain when we started liking him. All right.

That's why I'm picking Thanos. Jesus, man. What? What? What is happening right now? That's why I'm picking Thanos. Okay. I like Thanos, man.

I like Thanos. I know people have said it. and I'm going Thanos, all right? So here's a deal. Vulture is a sneaky good pick because Vulture actually has some redemption to him as well. If you remember at the end of the Spider-Man movie, he doesn't give him up to Scorpion.

He doesn't give up Peter's, his true identity to Scorpion, which tells you that there's something in there that's good about him. He was having corrupted by whatever situation he was under by losing his business and losing his entire deal, but he was doing stuff for his family. So there's something that was good about him. This is one thing. Thanos killed trillions of people, right?

And his goal was to kill. Literally half of existence. Yeah, his goal was to kill trillions of people. But you caught yourself at moments with Thanos going, hmm, am I looking at this wrong? You know what I mean? You caught yourself in moments with Thanos because he had, He had an elegance to him and a sort of regal nature to him to where, like, you could tell, like, he showed love.

It seemed like it was this perverted sense of duty that he had to the overall good that led him to do these terrible things. And in a way, it was intoxicating. It was almost like his point of view was perverted and warped. But you don't know if really he was. But he was definitely dedicated to doing something inherently villainous and would have never, ever, ever come off of it. But look, he showed respect when it was time to be respectful. I respect you, Star. Look at Star Lord.

I like you. I like the way you guys fight. I don't know you guys are doing this whole deal. Now, old Thanos, immature Thanos for 2014 was a total dick. But the thanos that we're talking about like that I would say most likable just guy that's going to do fucked up shit not reformed most likable guy I'd have to go thanos if Kimmanger's not on there. I have to go thanos. All right guys, I'm going to switch up my vote now. Oh my God.

I'm wronging with my midnight boy because I just remember there's nothing. If I have one dream in life, it is to destroy all of my enemies and they just go kicking out my apartment. you know what I'm saying like cook up some nice food for myself right off into the sunset honestly we want to be real the Avengers out on a grateful universe yes the Avengers are the dicks in that like in that scenario like bro like like like I's done yeah trying to save half of life in the universe how dare they appalling behavior they know so I'm rocking with my boy that's my pick oh all right my my vote stands for Loki but I have been outvoted Thanos here, though perhaps he will lose in time, just as he did in the MCU.

That takes us to the next award, which is mine, mine to present. Oh, wow. This is my first award of the day, and it is the I Love You 3000 top-tier jerker moment. I had an incredibly difficult time narrowing down the list of nominees to land at five. The anguish that I felt trying to cap this at five was akin to the anguish I felt watching all of these sequences. So I'm going to give you my five nominees. Then I'm going to ask for your indulgence,

not only as I wipe away the tears that I will shortly shed right here on Zoom, but as I read through a rapid fire list of other things that I also considered and then add your own. Because there are tons, myriad options to consider here. Okay. Number one, Cap and Peggy.

promising each other that dance as Steve flies the Valky into the ice in Captain America, the first Avenger. Next, Pepper telling Tony, you can rest now as he takes his final breath in Avengers Endgame. Thanos snapping half of life out of existence as Peter Parker falls into Tony's arms and says, iconically, Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good.

I don't feel so good. I don't want to go. Next, Thor, breaking down and crying to Rocket, saying, well, if I'm wrong, then what more could I lose as he sets out to need of Valer in pursuit of a weapon to challenge Thanos. And then finally, Peter Quill, no jokes in this moment, weeping, saying, I told you to go right as he brings himself to honor Gamora's wish and pulls the trigger, only to realize it didn't matter.

Reality Stone activated, bubbles pouring out. Avengers Infinity War. Those are my five. Here are some, just some of the others that I consider. Cap refusing to fight Bucky in Winter Soldier. Tony telling Cap, I lost the kid when he gets back to Earth. Devastating. Tony's eulogy. iconic moment. Cap and Tony's break their rupture in Civil War. He was my friend.

So was I. Rocket and Guardians saying, I didn't ask to be torn apart and put back together the really emotionally impactful. I didn't ask to get made sequence. Guardians two nominee as well, Yandu's funeral. Wow, that one was tough. That was fucking tough. I'm not going to lie, though.

I sobbed freely in my seat in the movie theater. That one was tough, man. Woo! Tichala and Eric's climactic conversation in Black Panther. The I Only Feel You moment between Vision and Wanda in Infinity War. Heart wrenching. And Scott seeing Cassie and Ressie and Rennessee. realizing both that he's with his family again,

but also that he missed five years of his daughter's life in endgame. Just some of the considerations. Any other nominees? Wow. Yeah, a lot of tears in the MCU, actually. There's only one winner here, but those are great moments. There's only one winner here. What's the winner?

I've only cried over two fictional white men in my life, like bald, openly. And the first one... Dumbledore? Dumbledore? No, Bradley Cooper and the Star is born. Like, I went to the theater alone And it was just like a bunch of middle-aged white women And then me in the middle of the theater

And I cried for like, like just bawling I got on the subway Kept crying Kept crying on the subway Got home, played the entire soundtrack And still was crying It was probably two or three hours of crying And then the second white man

I had never cried so much as when Peter disintegrated Like that was the moment where I was like, How dare you? Very painful this perfect boy this innocent you killed him like I'm gonna start crying right now

like dog like I don't know like all of those were great but Peter Peter disintegrating yeah I also do think hot take time I think he tricked us man what's his face Tom Holland because once he did that I was like he's the best actor

ever he's great lived up he's good he never lived up to that moment again And I was just like, oh, my gosh. He's great. He's great. I like Tom Holland. Yeah.

I like him too. It's just he's never met that moment again. That was like his 80 point game. So look, looking at this as shit is sad, you know. Um, I didn't cry for Pepper telling Tony you can rest now, but that's because I was all cried out. In game had me crying. In game had me cry. Let me tell you, you know what the sad is.

you know what the biggest tear-jerkering in the endgame for? It wasn't that. And I really don't want to cry right now. Do it. But for a guy who has had a traditionally strained relationship with his father, him being able to piece it up with his dad before he went and met his end. Think about that. That moment was so metaphysically meaningful to me because he could never get it right with his father

in the present time. He had to travel back to the past to make amends with his father. And that to me, and Kalika knew, because we're in the theater and she sees them and all of a sudden she puts her hand on my hand

because she knows that I'm about to start here. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'll let it go. So I started crying in, and then I cried when he picked up the fucking hammer, and then I cried on your left, and then I let out a tearful ball when it was Avengers and Simple.

So by the time Tony died, I was like, because y'all just fucking roll the credits, please. Y'all got it. I get it. Y'all own me. Can you just roll it? So that was dope. I would have to say that that I'm not going to go with,

I don't feel so good because I still have issues with that. I have issues with the fact that it took him so long to disintegrate. Everybody else was like, blow away and away. Don't rain on people's parade on such a beautiful moment. And then he just... Like he was like like the screwed up. They slowed the shit down like the Houston music. And he just disintegrated.

What I'll tell you is this. I'm going to go with Thor and Rocket. I'll tell you why. Beautiful scene. Rocket has an emotional center and a way to be there when somebody needs to be centered emotionally when you need a shoulder to cry on when it's time to gather you rock it for all of the stuff that we talk about

he was thrown together. He's kind of emotionally a very fully formed character. Right? Like even in, he knows what he has to go talk to people, give them pep talks. He knows when he needs to be there

and be present. And Thor, as broken of a character as he is throughout, you know, the end of that phase of the MCU, you notice that they put him with Rocket

a lot so the rocket can keep Thor on task and emotionally available to be a hero. And so I thought that that scene right there was very important to establishing that dynamic, but it was also very important for us to see a God cry, like a literal God. We're taking all of these things away from Thor, his mother, his father, his brother, and he's just supposed to be a God. He's so strong. He's just supposed to move past it. But no, he's a dude, a man, a guy, or whatever.

So out of these, I definitely would put that one. Although this is a real tear jerker of a list. It's hard. Even just talking, I just thought of a handful more, like Loki's sacrifice, which you mentioned earlier, hearing you bring up Tony and Howard and that wonderful time-hice sequence at Camp Lehigh, then I think of another heart-wrenching moment in that sequence

when Steve sees Peggy, when he accidentally goes into her office and sees her through the glass and the look on his face. That might be the most perfect encapsulation of yearning and longing that we've seen in the MCU. Hearing you talk about Thor just now,

then I start thinking about the gift of that scene, needless salad dig aside between Frigga and Thor and Endgame and talking about what it really means to be a hero. Hell yeah. So many beautiful moments and beautiful scenes. It's almost impossible to put.

I forgot one. We forgot a lot. There are a ton. It's hard. Wait. Did you already say, if we're on the rocket train, when Rocket thinks that Groot is going to die in the original Guardians of the Galaxy movie, I was like, Jesus. I have not mentioned that. That, no, I'm not going to lie.

As far as, like, really super crying. Yeah. Like, that shit. I'm like, God damn, man. It's like the whole thing, like, we are Groot. Oh, my God. When he gets, when he pretends. And her protects them in the cocoon?

Oh, my God. Crazy. You know what we did? You know that nothing with Thor and Jane made this? Think about that. Van, what the takes? We're supposed to care. Nothing with Thor and Jane made this.

She disappeared after two movies. Yeah, they didn't do a good job with him. But anyway, a lot of tear jerkers. Wow, we just shed all the feels. It's really hard to pick. I don't know. What was your pick? I haven't made one.

I don't know what to do. Maybe one. I'm torn between actually your two picks, between I don't feel so good and the Thor moment. I think I'm going to pick the Thor moment because, Van, you hit it on the head, I think. It's the surprise of that scene and the gift of that scene, really, and Thor's arc overall.

And what the best fantasy stories do is allowing you to see your own humanity. inside of a literal God or a superhero and to find that way to relate to what you're seeing. And it's not that he has, I think the other key to that scene is that it's not that he has given up. He is so fiercely determined to find a way forward and to never stop fighting and stop believing that he can do it as hard as it may be

to actually see what the path is. And so it's really inspiring, even though it is devastating. And I think it's just also incredibly well-acted scene on Chris Hemsworth's part, and this is like the stretch of the MCU with Ragnarok and Infinity War where you're like,

wow, what if this had been the Thor we'd gotten throughout the MCU? It's just like this incredibly rich viewing experience. And I agree with what you said about Rocket as well. You know, the character literally branded a professional asshole elsewhere in the MCU has this almost innate ability

to allow other characters to tap into the surprising but really meaningful and resonant vulnerability. So that's the pick. I reserve the right to change my mind at any point. Yeah. Okay. Before our next award, I'm getting incoming here from Jarvis. Jarvis is telling me that we have a Marvel fact from Ringer super fan. Daniel Chin. Hey, this is Daniel Chin, and I'm a fact checker at the ringer. And my random fandom facts about the MCU is that the movie that I saw the most times in theaters was also the first one that I saw,

which was the original Iron Man. I saw it three times, including the midnight release. So I had to wait a long time to get a good see for it. Not really knowing what to expect, but it was definitely worth the wait, and it was the first of many Marvel movies I did that for. Three times for Iron Man. Can I give you guys a little personal Iron Man story?

Please. Please do. So I know these guys out here in L.A. And they're party promoters, right? And one day I go to my friend's office. He's got an office where he's got all these, like, you know, like gambling tables and all of that. And he's like, yo, I got a 16 parlay.

I just need Carmelo and Anthony scored 25. I'm like, shut up, bro. You know, fuck. And so I go to his office, right? And he's got all these movie posters up. And I'm like, why? You know, I don't have all these movies posters. He goes, oh, I've invested in all of these films.

I've invested in these films. These films are films I invested in. And this was like before Marvel had been bought by Disney. Oh, my God. And he had one up there and he goes, yeah, this one right here is the one that I need to work. It's Robert Donny Jr. I was like, yeah, he's going to be Iron Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He goes, oh, you know about that? I'm like, yeah, man. Like, that's my thing. That's like what I'm into. Like, that's my whole complete deal. That's like my thing. He goes, well, what are you things going to happen? And I was like, to be honest with you, I don't know.

I was like, I'm really not sure. I said, like, for a long time this movie was trying to be, maybe, kicking it around, and Tom Cruise had wanted to do it. And if he had done it, it would have been a gigantic hit, nonetheless, but I'm like, Robert Donnie Jr., who knows if he can pull this off?

Like, we haven't been, and he goes, are you fucking kidding me? I'm like, they said it was a shoe in. I'm like, it's not. I don't know why they would say that. Did you talk this guy out of his investment in the MCU? No, no, he already had done it, right? You could like, no, he already had done it.

And by the way, anybody who's thinking, who's thinking, anybody who thinks this is bullshit, this dude is still my friend, and I can bring him on at any point and he can discuss this. And so, and so, like, he goes, whatever. And then, like, the whole weekend, because it was this weekend,

the weekend, he was the whole weekend, he was calling me back. He was like, yo, I'm going to theaters in Vegas, and nobody is in the theaters to watch the movie. And I said, yo, Mark, I'm like, yo, it's Vegas. Nobody's going to the movies in the summer in Vegas. I'm like, you wilding.

And then Sunday, he hit me up. He texted me. He goes, I'm rich. And that was the only thing. He's like, I'm rich. And like, you know, he's a very successful businessman, very successful guy. But there were posters from all kinds of films up there. The Incredible Hulk was one because they had, what they were doing this,

they had taken out a revolving line of credit. And they were also guys that were able to. to invest into these films if you knew the right guys of Hollywood and he had put up a substantial amount of money and then Iron Man

took him out of here did a lot of bread on the film You know what I learned about that? LA party promoter guys Never take financial advice from then. I didn't know I was being honest with him

I really didn't know like who before the movie came out think about it now before the movie came out were you sure that it was going to work? No I mean

it's one of the great surprises in cinematic history, right? The MCU evolving and establishing itself in the way that it did. I mean, they started with Iron Man because it tested well with the toy focus groups and because of the character rights

that they didn't have to other online figures. An amazing history, really incredible. What a story. My goodness. Time for our next award from the Ringers resident MCU philosopher, Musa Kwonga. Greetings, Ringiverse.

My name is Miso Konga. co-hosts the Stadio podcast on Ringer FC. I'm delighted to be joining you for the first ever Verses. Anyone who's listened to me before on any podcast knows I'm all about the journey. And so, Mal Van and Charles, the award I've got for you is the best character arc. That is to say, which character in the MCU has been on the biggest spiritual, physical, existential, existential journey during their time in the MCU? There are three nominees. The first nominee is Thor, who went from intergalactic frat boy to stand-up comedian to world-weary war veteran.

The second nominee is Red Skull, who went from terrifying Nazi overlord to melancholic space priest. A nominee number three is Wanda Maximoff, who went from war refugee to hydra agent to runaway lover to traumatized kidnapper of an entire village. Those are the three nominees for Best Character Arc.

Over to you. Just really quick, I would listen to him, just like a lullabyer. Like make a Lusa Lullaby podcast and I would just throw it on before I go to sleep. I'm about to say I'm about to loop that to go to sleep tonight. This fucking guy. What a beautiful voice. This sounds like angelic chocolate angel.

Fuck. Everybody should listen to Stadio if they're not listening. You can listen to his audiobooks. Beautiful. His audio books? Yo, I got to hit up Musa. Give me the discount. Yeah.

Can I go first here? you absolutely can. I think we have to add some names to the list here, right? Glaring omissions. Yeah. I love the list we have, but we got to fill it out before we cast our votes. Who were you guys adding? Maybe like fucking Iron Man.

That would be my nomination as well. Tony Stark, Anthony Stark. Right. Maybe the single most impressive arc in the history of anything, Iron Man, I'd say. gets on there, maybe Bucky as well. Maybe you can leave Bucky off, but maybe Bucke's on there too. But that's who I would add. Charles, who would you at? I think not to add to Trio, but Captain America, starting from where he was to the end,

figuring out that he can be selfish, that he can want things for himself, that it's not always Avengers assemble, getting the love of his life back? That journey? Come on. I totally agree. You have to have. whether it's a little basic and mainstream or not, you gotta have Tony and Steve on here. Yeah.

Not only because their arcs are the dominant arcs and through lines of the MCU, but because of the really poetic harmony between their arcs, the fact that Tony starts out as the really brash, boastful playboy billionaire, the guy who leads Cap to say, A in the Avengers, big man in a suit of armor, take that off.

What are you? That whole exchange and the amazing part of that where Cap says, I know guys with none of that worth 10 of you, I've seen the footage. The only thing you really fight for yourself, you're not the guy to make the sacrifice play to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you. And Tony says, I think I would just cut the wire. And then he, of course, makes the ultimate sacrifice play in endgame.

And then the corollary of that, Steve being the guy to make that speech to feel that way, to throw himself over the grenade at Camp Lehigh, and holding on to that throughout being that kind of teammate and leader and fighter, but as Charles said, realizing that within that he has to make room for himself, he has to make room for his own life, and realizing that the end for him,

and I love the way that the Russo brothers and Marcus and McPhile have spoken about that aspect specifically over the years of how they structured the endgame storyline, that the ending for Steve wasn't for him, to die or for him to make the sacrifice play. It was for him to go live his life, the life that he had put on hold for so long for so many people. Gotta have those two in there have to.

Yeah. I'm gonna also put in really quick, just aesthetically, just like from where he went. I got to put in slash my man Jarvis's vision going from just their voice. That's a really good one. In Iron Man's head to be like

the android that they birth into the world in age of Ultron to having kids. Like if you told me back in Iron Man, they're like, yo, Jarvis, the voice in this? he's going to be vision and have like little kid, young Avengers running around in like 15 years, I would have been like, shut up.

What are you talking about? Right. I like that one. I think that Thor, who is on Musa's list of three, does have a real case, though, for all the reasons that we talked about in the last category

and all the reasons that Musa outlined. I do think that Thor's arc is one of the most rewarding and fulfilling in the entire MCU. So I would happily cast my vote for him if we were limiting ourselves to the three that that Musa suggested. But I will be casting my vote. Are we allowed to vote for in the moment additions? If so, I am formally casting my vote for Anthony Stark.

Yeah. It's Iron Man, damn it, and it's easy. And here's the thing, Musa. Come on, I'm going to come on your show and I'm going to talk about Chelsea. All right. I'm going to talk about Frank Lampert. I'm going to talk about all the times I say I watch Chelsea and how much I love Chelsea, right? I'm going to talk about all the I know about is Gareth Bale.

He didn't play for them. But I'm talking about all the soccer that I know. I know soccer, okay? But this right here, you can't have Red Skull on this fucking list, bro. I love you. I'm telling you this as a brother. You can't have Red Skull on his list. Red skull is not on this list.

This is a megalomaniac that got sentenced to be there. He made no arc. The fates, he was looking for the stone, and they made him stay there. He didn't arc nothing. He's a metaphysical slave. That's what he deserves, by the way. He's weird-looking, and he's down with Hitler. We don't like him.

He's in Infinity Stone purgatory. He's not there of his own volition. Right. But I do like that this is very true to Musil, says Galaxy Brain Take Spirit. I like that part of it. Guys, I'm just mad that you didn't pick Thor. Because you want to know, I'm going to pick.

I think Thor has a real case. I do. Because I'm also, I'm going to go, we already talked about the character arc, but to see where how much Chris Hemsworth grew as like an actor, like I would argue. Oh, I thought you made physically. Because that nigger swole as hell.

Like, just the transformation. I would, if we're talking about like the trio of Ironman Cap and then Thor with Hemsworth, like, he had the most to grow. I think he, where he was in the first Thor to where he got to Ragnarok, to like the emotional core of like Infinity War and end game and just having to pull off fat Thor right after he had the talk with Rocket about losing everything. Like, it's just, I don't think you really get to see actors really grow into a role like that and get a fourth movie.

Like Tony Stark didn't even get a fourth movie. that's how good like Hemsworth was so I have to give it to Thor there you go I go with Tony Stark I think it's one of the great arcs in any character situation anywhere

I go with Tony I'm going with Tony Thor very very worthy very worthy of consideration here as well all right next Van it's your first award of the day

what do you got for us I first of all thank you everyone this is great you guys all look great Jomey, I appreciate you dressing up. Thank you. Appreciate you guys all being here tonight.

I'd also like to, since I'm presenting and I have everyone, I'd like to make some sort of statement about the state of things in the world, you know, tell you guys something as a member of the Hollywood elite, but I'm not going to do that, even though it's my term to present. My award is for the funniest moment in the MCU. This is called the Huckle Juckle Award. All right? Sometimes we go to these movies.

We're not expecting to laugh, all right, but we laugh it up. Now, we'll say that there are a lot of moments in the first Iron Man movie that are funny because that movie is basically almost a comedy, really, if you want to get to it. But none of those is more like a collection of things. None of those movies made my top five. Okay. These are the nominees. All of the Avengers. a tip to lift me in here.

It's a funny scene to me. I get some huckles. I get some juckles. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a problemat. It's a guy problematic pin right in his heart out, okay? Um, you know how much I like snakes from Thor Ragnarap. That scene is hysterical to me.

He speaks up the snakes. He knows how much, how much I like the snakes. It did he. I went to an admirer. It's, ah, it's me. You know, it's hilarious to me. I love that. Okay. An underrated MCU performance in terms of comedy.

This guy brings it every single time. Michael Pena. Ooh. Love him. As Louise, his truth serum rant in Ant Man. The best. All of, all, like, it's amazing. Love that.

And the last one. Drax being imperceptible. You can't see Drax. He's moving so slowly that you can't see him. It was hard to narrow down the Drax funny takes. Because although Quill gets off the most jokes, Drax is the funniest member of the Guardians. When he tells Quill, another funny moment,

that he's game weight. and he goes Like you've like Like you've put on some way I think DRAX is the funniest member of the Guardians I think Dave Fetizza does a great job Those are My nominees

What do you guys got? I want to sneak in one I want to sneak in a Dax moment This is probably the moment I remember People like like dying in the theater Is Dax going Nothing goes over my head I have that too fast

I catch it The whole sequence of Drax failing to understand metaphors and guardians is a great one. It perfectly encapsulates who he is as a character. And from that moment on, I'm like, dude, you're like, like, Loki, the funniest character in the MCU. Wait a minute. I love that one. That's a hell of a funny scene. He's like, this, this, you guys know this.

That's a hysterical scene. That's an hysterical scene. Another, another Drax one actually, really the whole sequence in, in, War when the Guardians find Thor is comedic gold. But I particularly like the sequence when he's stretched out on the table, and they're just awed by how handsome he is. They can't believe his muscles and his face and all of it. And Drax says it's like a pirate, had a baby with an angel.

That cracks me up every time. I love that. You have the snake nomination from Ragnarok. I think also the whole, he's a friend from work sequence, always good for a laugh. that's wonderful. And the Thor Loki get help scene and discussion leading up to get help from Ragnarok is really funny. I would throw out two more.

The Captain America PSAs for the Midtown Tech students in Homecoming. I almost put it in. I almost put it in. It's very, very funny. So good. I almost put it in. Yeah. So good.

I mean, obviously it builds toward the stinger about patience. you know, the joke on the audience, and then there's the longer cut on the bonus features. But just the part that we see throughout the movie, so funny. And Chris Evans' delivery is just like perfect in this. So I'd love that. And then I would also throw this out. Really everything between Tony and Dr. Strange, all of their bickering in Infinity War, is so amusing. But specifically, when Tony says, what is your job exactly besides?

It's making balloon animals. And Dr. Strange says, protecting your reality, douchebag. Dochebag. Yeah. I love that. I love that. I also like when he asks if Peter is Tony's ward kills me. So you're a ward.

Right. So funny. I love this. I was like Wong piecing out, Wong piecing out in Infinity War. It wasn't funny in the theaters. But the thought of Wong is being like, nah, y'all got this?

It makes me laugh every single time. It's great. Every single time I watch them. They're really funny movies. There are a lot of candidates. I mean, you know, everything that Tony does is funny. Boy, what to vote for here. I already know my pick.

I already know. I think I know mine, too, actually. I'm going with Luis's Truth Serum speech, which I think is a incredible sequence. The actual monologue is wonderful. The interplay between the characters is hysterical. And the performance is amazing. Specifically, I think my favorite line

has always been, but there was this one Rothko that was sublime, bro. Oh my God. I just love that. Right. That's my vote. Luis. I got to, you know what? I'm changing the award. I'm giving Tracks a lifetime achievement award. For a character.

Like, I think comedic, the best comedic actor in the MCU, I have to give it to Drax. Because the amount of like lines we came out with, he just needs, and this is a character, like, he should not be funny. He should not be as funny as he is.

Like, Dave Petista, like, who saw it? And to see where he goes with the little tiny glasses and all the movies, come on. I got to give a Lifetime Achievement Award to Drax and Dave Patista. So I agree with the Lifetime Achievement Award, but for this particular award, I'm giving it to the Truth Serum rant.

I came up with the category, specifically to give that award to that scene. So that's my that's my... I'm going to tell you, Van. Newsflash, we came up with all the categories. This is made up a war show. I know, but what I'm saying is, the only reason why I thought about that is because I thought,

you know, nobody talks about how good he is in that. And so, like, he is. He's really good in that. Yeah, he really kicks ass in that. You know, I don't love Reyes, man. You know, but there was a Rose that saved the day. It was delightful. He's great. Hugely consequential, too, given the role that the van, that his

brown van ends up playing, you know? Yeah. Traveling Quantum Tunnel. Okay. Luis wins. Next, it's time to hear from the blog father himself. Christopher Ryan. Mallory and the Midnight Boys, Pugh, Pugh. It's Chris Ryan here from the Watch podcast,

the home of Prestige TV, and I'm excited to be a part of the Verses. As fans of the Ringer might know, I love a good bit part. I don't mean like bits like, that's what she said. I mean, actually like a small part. So the award that I'm going to present to the Academy

is the best, I completely forgot that person. was in the MCU award. Here are the nominees Livia Munn as Chess Roberts in Iron Man 2. Richard Armitage. I forgot all about Heinz Kruger and the First Avenger. Robert Redford, obviously a huge name, but you kind of forget that he's Alexander Pierce and Winter Soldier. Michael Stolberg, one of our great character actors as Nicodemus West and Dr. Strange,

the dude who kind of screws up Benedict's hands. And then somebody please remind me, Carrie Coons in Infinity War, Proxima Midnight, you get my vote. I'm curious to see who you guys are going to select. Thank you for having me on the Verses. Okay. I say this with just boundless love and affection and respect for Chris Ryan. Genuinely one of the most important people in my life.

This has a real I've only watched these movies once five to it, to me. You know? You only forget that Robert Redford is in the Winter Soldier if you don't frequently return to and think about the Winter Soldier, but I wonder if Chris would be okay with us on the fly here, slightly tweaking the way we're thinking about the character where it's less, I forgot this person was in this role and more like, boy, isn't that a surprise? Huh. Can't believe they got that person to play that role? And then you can throw out so many contenders. Like Glenn Close would be my pick in that sense. For, just forgetting, I don't know. I'm going to be real. I forgot

Olivia Monon was in IronO2. That's a good one. Yeah. I was just like, what? She was in the MCU. This is not somebody I actually forget was in the MCU, but in the spirit of the exercise. What about Adam Pally, Gary in the TV truck in Iron Man 3, the Tony Stark super fan? He feels like an apt pick for this category.

That's all every time I watch them, look, oh, yeah. Great stuff. Man, who you picking? It's tough for me. Robert Redford. I don't really believe is, is like a real answer here because he pops back up again, like you said.

So Robert Redford, I'm not really into... Also legitimately, one of the most famous people who's ever lived. You're having some issues with this. Like, you're not digging this one that much. No, I love it. And I love Chris, and I support him. Richard Armitage. I mean, it's Thorin-Oakinshield. How can we forget about Thor and Oaken Shield?

I'm going to go with Olivia Munn because, and the only reason why I'm going with Olivia Munn is because literally the only one that I went, oh, they were in this. Was Olivia Munn. Was Olivia Munn. Everybody else, I'm like, yeah, Alexander Pierce was the entire, like, he was the protagonist for like the whole movie. Yeah, it was kind of a big deal. And I love Chris.

Chris is my guy. So, but I'm going to go with Olivia Munn because I actually had forgotten that she was in the MCU for sure. That's a good one. I'll go with that as well. Okay. Tough beat for Chris. He just texted me.

It's like he could sense that we were dunking on him in the moment. Nerds dunking on Chris. I feel so bad. I love you, Chris. I didn't dunk on him as much. I feel like we laid it up. But we did put a nasty shoulder fake on him, though.

Like a nasty shoulder fake. But we laid it up. We didn't dunk on it. Okay. Charles, it's time for your second award of the day. All right, guys. This is my second and final award of the night.

It's called the What the Casting Award, aka the alternate world where this actor won their audition. First, we have Chadwick Bozeman as Drax, Daniel Craig, as Thor, Ryan Gosling as Doctor Strange, and John Crosinski as Captain

America. Guys, I want to know. Which actor would have totally derailed the MCU if they had played one of these characters? I have my pick already. Oh my goodness. This is an interesting mental exercise,

especially because we're so close to what if hitting Disney Plus getting some of these MCU alternate realities on our screens, which I can't wait for. So, Charles, are you looking for, when you say derailed, like is the award about who would have had a negative impact or just who would have changed things the most drastically? I think it would be like negative impact in the way that like just like they're either too famous. We know them too well or they just don't now that we've seen the character on screen,

they just wouldn't have given us that perfect mix. It has to be then. And I end it's just, you know, all respect to Daniel Craig. But if that's the thinking, it has got to be Daniel Craig as Thor. No brain. Dina Craig's Thor is insanity. That would not be a thing. That made sense inside of the MC.

you can't go from playing what's his face is Paul Newman's pissant little boy who ruined everything and rolled to perdition to Thor and I'm not buying it he has a pissant look that works for James Baum he's a strong pissant

you know what I mean he's got like a ugh to say something snarky type of guy I love Daniel Craig, don't get me wrong Dan Craig's amazing Have you guys seen Daniel Craig walk out of the ocean in a bathing suit? because I have and it is memorable. More memorable than Chris Hemsworth.

That's the one part of it that would have worked, I think. The abs. Daniel Craig can't get it done as Thor. Now, there are other characters in the MCU he would have rocked it as. Oh, yeah. And there are more characters to come into MCU that I think he could do a great job with.

But Thor, no, you needed to... But sneak one. I think Ryan Gosling as Dr. Strange would have been so terrible. Not because I love Ryan Gossel, like amazing actor. A, he's too good luck to play Dr. Strange.

B, I just don't, like, what? In what world? I don't get it. You tell me he auditioned for this and he didn't get it? I think he was like he was one of the names.

I don't know if he ever auditioned for it, though. See, he doesn't work his Dr. Strange at all. Not at all. He works more as Cap than he does as Dr. Strange. Like, you can't, he's, he's a very, good looking but charismatic guy, but Dr. Strange, and I don't mean to say this,

Benedict Benderdick. Benedict Cumberbatch has that sort of almost ethereal type of otherworldly charm. You know, he looks like a Dr. Strange type of guy, but now I don't think what's his face works at all. All of these are particularly bad, though. Chadwick Boseman is Drax is also the, like. Come on. I love Chadwick, but I can't see him doing like the...

It's not enough for him. Yeah, it's not enough for him. Yeah, he needed more. But you know, it was one that we didn't mention because it would have worked. John Krasinski could have pulled off cap, man. He could have. He could have. He would have been good.

Yeah. But my only thing against that was he too close to the office where like now we understand him as a movie star, but there was a like a drought during the office that it was like, I don't know, man. But I think the fact that he wasn't in full movie star territory at that time would have actually helped because, I mean, Chris Evans had certainly been in big movies, but, you know, that's actually the other thing to go back to Thor that I think is helpful. It's like Chris Hemsworth was not famous when they cast him as Thor.

That's part of why it's such a revelation when he eventually becomes such a sensation. And obviously, there are plenty of movie stars and famous people who entered the MCU as movie stars and famous people, but a lot of the more successful castings are right before. You know, the MCU role is what made those people famous or what helped them emerge anew and enjoy their second act. So the idea of Daniel Craig in the surge of the bond years coming into play Thor, absolutely not. I do think it would have led to some absolutely iconic scenes with Anthony Hopkins as Odin. Like, we're just fully in everybody thinks they're doing Shakespeare in space at that point.

And that could have been amusing and entertaining. But other than that, no. And also, Thor has to have sort of a boy warrior charm. Yeah.

He has to have, because even when you compare Thor to the much older, much more powerful, Oden, he has to exist in an adolescent sort of boyish way.

And Daniel Craig just, that's how he plays James Bond. That's a man. You know what I mean? I do know what you mean? That's a guy. That's a deal.

Whoa. Hey. Wait, but, I got something. That's a man. Do we think that he could have been Donald Blake? He said, Daniel Craig could have been Donald Blake,

like the alter ego of Thor. I think, because you need the boyish charm of Chris Hemsworth. I would see Chris Hemsworth and Daniel Craig arguing over Thor and like switching bodies and stuff. I think that could have been like a very, very entertaining movie.

But we all know, it's Daniel Craig. We picked. Daniel Craig wins. Daniel Craig wins, for sure. Time for the next award. And it comes not only from a fellow MCU enthusiast, but from the architect of this first episode of the Verses,

the brain behind the awards show. TD St. Matthew Daniel! Yo, what's good, Mal? What's up, Midnight, boys? It's T.D. St. Matthew Daniel, Daniel, podcast lead here at the Ringer, and I'm hyped to be part of the Verses. Speaking of a hype, as someone who's seen a shameful amount of MCU movies

at the cinema opening weekend, just to experience that craziness, that energy on opening weekend, I'm here to present to you guys the best Hype A-F cinema moments in the MCU. The nominees are, Hulk reveals he's always angry as the Avengers assemble in live action

for the very first time. Tataula assumes the mantle of Black Panther officially as he defeats Embakou as his Bacondish, chant his name. Spider-Man finally makes his MCU debut as Team Iron Man and Team Cap face off in Civil War. Thor arrives in Wakanda and yells, bring me Thanos! And then lastly, the entire sequence that begins with Sam saying on your left, those three words, and then Captain Rogers saying those two words, Avengers

As simple. Wow, I just got to chill listening to that. Great category. Wait, so the last one, I want to know, does that include, because if it doesn't, I'm going to be mad, does that include

CAP getting it? It doesn't, and we have to officially add it. That's before that. We have to add it. That's such a disrespectful one not to add. It's weird, TD. T.D., jump your ass on here right now. I find this omission confusing and concerning.

I do. But it's a strong five. It is. But there's no goddamn way, bro. I'm going to be real with you, T.D. There's no way. So some of these, bro, some of these, the Hulk, I'm always angry. You can get that joint right off the list.

No, that's a great one. That's a great one. It doesn't make the top five. No, it don't make the top five. Like, when he grabs. the hammer. Bro. Like,

there's no way you cannot have that on this list. So let me say my piece on this. Like, one, I had to make some cuts, right? Did not want to end up

with a Zach Snyder Mallory Rubin type list of four hours long? Wow! I had to make some cuts now. Oh, my God. Just gave. Oh.

Holy shit. Shot right. Driver. Shout out. Shout out to Zach Snyder. Shout out to the House of Mal. Hey, please welcome me back into the House of Mal. Please beg of me.

But no, in all seriousness, I had to make some cuts. And then also, I'm a big score guy. And all those scenes I mentioned are underscored with fantastic musical notes and fantastic musical cues. And the hammer, great scene. It doesn't just have that moment of that epic score. And that's why it didn't make the cut. Plus, it's also kind of part of that sequence. That sequence is all wrapped up in the way before.

It's way before. It's like 30, 45 seconds before. Counterpoint to the score point. The only score you need in the clear winner of this category, cap wielding Milnear is the wush, the hum of Milnear moving through the air into Steve Rogers' hands. And the shout. Come on.

The jubilation. The Iron Road. The Spider-Man thing was in the trailer. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, that was in the trailer. Good point. Good point. And like, no one expected that.

I know I didn't see it coming. No one expected that. Like, I lost it. Like, it's crazy. You can't do this category. That's the winner of the whole thing. Again, can we. just make it all one scene because it's it's all part of the same scene.

You're cheating. No. T.D. We're not making it one scene. You did this to troll. You knew this would get my blood pressure. Let me put this cheese down. Because I might have an event.

Like, you knew that this. I am not. I'm here for the content. I'm not here for the trolling. That's why we have Charles. Shout out. You know, just, but I agree. What?

T. No, you want to know. T. Now I'm jumping in with Vann. See, you had no answers for Vance. So you're coming off for me because you. No, like I have a scrawny build, okay? And my heart gets hurt very easily, all right?

You're your whole attack fan right now. Not at all, not at all. Hey, I'm a big fan of the Verses, big fan of the ring of verse, love you guys. I am saying, I do agree. I'm going to, I'm going to distract us with your praise and your compliments. Yeah. I am going to say, yes, to the point Van made, on the ruse, the Spider-Man moment was in the trailer. So we can absolutely take that out.

And, hey, you guys are the academy. You guys have the Oscar winner. I'm just here. I'm just a regular fan who goes to see Infinity War and end game eight times of the theater. You guys make the call.

Can I throw in an Infinity War contender then while we're here? It's another Captain America moment. I am ultimately going to pick one of the end game nominees here. Either Avengers Semble or a cap lifting Muleer, those are all-time top five movie moments,

movie theater moments for me and for many Avengers fans. Steve Rogers appearing in Infinity War in the train station. Catching the spear. The movie theater was vibrating. I was like, is there an earthquake outside? Like, the whole room was shaking. Everyone was screaming.

I had my nails, like, digging into Chris Ryan's arms. Chris Ryan does not remember that we saw that movie together, which is very painful for me because it was a meaningful experience in my life, but I remember. He probably thinks Robin Redford was in that. Sorry, I don't mean it's dark. I love you, Chris. I got an honorable mention. I remember sitting down for an Infinity War

when Thanos beat the ever-living shit out of Hulk. Everybody was like, like, we were like audibly in the theater. Like, what is happening right now? We were more stunned, though. Yeah. That was more, that was a different feeling. We were more stunned like, God, damn.

It's not in the top five. No, I get, not I get you. It was like a what is happening. I will tell you this. Bring me, Thanos. Almost got some tears out of me, too. Because that was like, bring me, thing else was crazy, man.

Bring me. He was about that shit. Let's get it cracking. Man, that makes me think of another tearjerker that we didn't mention earlier, which is Groot, giving his own limbs to help forge Stormbreaker. Incredible. Yeah, that is amazing moment. Got a little cut off and they hurt them.

Can I present an honorable mention that's probably going to get me kicked off this, Zoom? Yeah, yeah. One more. Please do. Sure. Because there's no love for Incredible Hulk in here, and I get it. For that moment when Betty sees Banner in the restaurant for the very first time after thinking he was gone. I'm cutting his mic.

I'm sorry. Get him out. Get him out. Get him out. Get him out. Played off. Played off. But like, yeah, play him off.

God damn. Like. Bye, Tiddy. Get out. Get out. Oh, my God. I do. So there are a couple of moments that I can I, can I give a, can I give a.

Can I give a bizarre world? Yeah, do it. Sort of, there are a couple moments that they thought would be hype moments that weren't hype moments. Oh, interesting. Okay. I don't want anybody to get mad when I say these. No promises, but we'll do our best.

Captain Marvel showing up in any game. Oh, yes. Hard agree. Yeah. People did not care that much. Corkets in the theater. Like Captain Marvel showing up in any game. game.

People didn't care that much. I was definitely like, where's goose? Are we going to see some more goose? Right. I need a flirt. Not to pick on the ladies, but I thought that they thought the A squad getting together would be a bigger deal than what it was. And I'm not trying to pick on the ladies at all.

I'm not picking on the ladies. What I'm saying is I personally don't feel like they did enough to build those characters up to be able to give them their moment properly. And I watch it now and I feel better about it. but in the theater, it felt like it was a little bit forced just in the middle of that battle. Yeah.

Even all these viewings later, I'm a little, I'm divided on that sequence. There's a part of me that's like, fuck yeah, let's go, girl power, look at all of these characters,

and also the fact that in the entire sequence, Carol and Wanda are the two who ultimately come the closest, which of course makes sense given the history with the stones to beating Thanos. But there's this, like,

aspect of like, all right, I feel like I'm, this is a little bit of pandering here. Like, we get it. You put women in your movies. We get it. Right, right.

Wait, I got one more that's not even an honorable mention. This is just like, I love my people, but this is when we collectively took an L. Like, I saw Infinity War at the Coors Street, Regal. And, you know, like, lose me and my people in there. We were seeing Infinity War. And the hype moment was when, like, Tachala comes on screen for the first time. and we're all like, yeah! And then, Charles did nothing for the rest of the movie.

And I was like, damn. And I was just like, guys, come on. Like, Black Panther just came out. Like, we got to, like, what the fuck is happening here? Yeah. It was embarrassing for my people. It was tough. It was tough.

Didn't get hype. Didn't get hype. Sometimes they, moments they want you to get hype. Didn't get hype. Like, the things sometimes, oh, here comes TD. Jesus Christ. I got to say this. I'm with you, Charles, on that one.

Because not only do they mess. that up. They also messed up the pronunciation of the Dormelage. They also messed up Black Panther's hair line. Like, it was just so much wrong with the attention to detail Ryan Cougar played in Black Panther wiped off the table in Infinity War and also an end game. And I'm a stickler for details and pronunciations. And Van,

it is Thanos. And I'm out. I've been saying, Thanos since I was 13, it's not going to change. I will say, I will say all my people out there, technically it is racist to correct two black hosts when we pronounce our names, all right? So it's Thanos. Stano.

I've been saying Thanos since I was a kid. Hey, it's Thanos. I did have one friend, though. Shout out to Robert Randolph. And I just remember he used to say Magneto. And it used to drive me

fucking crazy. Magneto? He used to say Magneto. He's like, what happened is Magneto, I'd be like, dog, it's Magneto, bro. I'm going to punch you in your shit. And so maybe that's how people

feel about me and Athena's thing. Wait, was this post? Was this before X-Memly animated series? No, this was like 91 when we were first, when we were getting into comics, like we were doing all the whole thing. He's like, Magneto.

I'm like, it's MacNeito, whatever. But, okay, so what are we voting for? I'm putting in, cap and me in there, and that's what I'm voting for. Cap me on here. Come on. I think that the on-your-left portal opening sequence into the

decade in the making Avengers assemble, cheer and surge has a real real case, but I am also voting for cap wielding Milnear in Avengers. Take it, TD. It's a sweep. I think our first one, actually. You guys are crazy. You guys are absolutely insane because that is not only the greatest movie in the MCU, it's also the greatest moment of

cinematic history. Steve cut his mic. Just stop. That's insane. That is ridiculous. Get them out. The most hype moment. Alex's a vestry. The people who love your work and love your score. These people are crazy. I'm out. I'm out. Wrap it up.

Okay. Speaking of Milnear, my second award is the best magical or technological signature item. I like this so much, man. Here are the nominees. It'll shock you to hear I could not cap it at five. I had to go to six. Thor's hammer. Milnear gives us the wonderful corg.

The hammer pulled you off moment. powerful, beautiful, meaningful signature item. Next, Captain America's Shield, not just because it's made of vibranium, not just because it is so versatile and useful, but because of what it means to all of the different characters and how central of a role it plays in so many of their relationships and their bonds. The Wakandan Kamoyo beads, the versatility and the brilliance of Shuri's tech and innovations, Wakanda and Vibranium on full display. Tony's various AIs, Jarvis, Friday, Karen,

if we're including the Spidey Suit that Tony makes for Peter here, Edith. Now, it was hard to pick just one thing for Tony here. You could do one of his marks if you have a favorite, could do the repulsor tech. This grouping together of the AIs is definitely a cheat, but I'm going with it. However, I think that we must note that if we're giving Tony credit for all of these inventions,

then we also have to dock points for Ultron, which, to quote my man, Tony Stark himself, my fault. Next, Dr. Strange's cloak of levitation, a magical relic with power and with agency, including the ability to make choices and it chooses Stephen Strange so they're bond is all the stronger for it. They really work together as a team, camaraderie, friendship in addition to utility. Fashion.

Yeah. And then finally, couldn't leave it off the list. Couldn't. Hank Pim's PIM particles can't really overstate the magnitude of this breakthrough. Not something that people are able to replicate.

I mean, our guy, Tony, solves time travel in about five seconds. Does he even think about trying to replicate the Particles? No. Get some more in the past during the time heist. There is the authentic article and that is it.

And just ask Darren Cross if you want to challenge that point. Can I add a couple? Please. The Super Soldier Serum. Does that count? If the pin particles count. I think if the pin particles count, then the serum has to. Yeah.

All right. The Super Soldier serum, I think, ended up. And here's the thing. So I think people don't understand the key central role that's Super Social Serum has played throughout the history. I think we've got a better understanding of it now. But you remember, even Emil Blonsky was given us the Super Soldier Serum, which turned him into abomination, we destroyed Harlem.

Multiple doses. Multiple doses. And it's been such a central kind of, not even a technological advancement. It's been a central sort of thematic idea about what it means to have who you are as a person boosted to levels where you can do these amazing things, what it means to these characters, what it means to the world around them, and you really saw it take center stage

during the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. So that's one there right there. And also, for the Wakandans, if I was going to choose one, I think the beads are just fucking amazing. But what about a little love for the heart-shaped herb? It's kind of like I put it together with the Super Soldier, Sam, the heart-shaped herb to me,

you know, which is, it's almost like it bestows you with the powers, but only if you are worthy of kingship. It means so much in Wakanda. You know what I mean? So I like those. Those are only two, but this is one of my favorite categories,

to be honest with you. By the way, I'm not going to choose either of the ones I just brought up. I'm just talking now. But these are like, but these are the one, these are the one of my favorite categories for sure.

Wait, so we're not showing any love for the, for the web shooters. Go for a man. I would love for like, I just want, I've always wanted web shooters. I like, just like, who doesn't want to swing around New York City? Okay? That's just amazing.

I'm not picking it either. But like, it's so great. They are great. I mean, we didn't, we didn't throw out, you know, any of the infinity stones. I picked ones that the web shooters fit in this, in this sense. But I picked ones that I would want and I would be too afraid of any of the, of any of the infinity stones. I would be tempted by the time stone. What about, but you love Bucky, not Bucky's bionic arm?

So I did think about that, but, you know, too many things that are, yeah, like of a piece with each other. I have cap shield in the, and the Camoyo beads, actually. I have two already from the vibranium category. So got to spread it out here a little bit. No Bucky's arm for me. No Bucky's arm for me. All right. Who's going first?

This is a tough category for me. I do love this category. It's so tough. I'll go. I'm picking the cloak of levitation. Me too. And I love it. By the way, and I've always loved it.

It's great. In life. I've always loved it. Like, not just now. I was so, I was so delighted to see it brought to life. Just the stuff that it does. It's funny. It's quirky.

Yes. It's powerful. It has personality. It can act on behalf of Stephen Strange when he's not even really in control of it. It does all kinds of things. It's part of the team. It's like another Avenger almost. I picked the Cloch of Levitation for sure.

I got to go with Thor's Hammer. It has everything. You can fly with it. You're a god made of lightning and also the most important thing. There's a through line, you know. When I'm partying out with Zemo, like I need something. Like Zemo's the dancer in my crew, okay? Like he's the one getting everybody, getting all the hot people around our table.

Then I pull out me on here and I'm like, hey, anybody want to see a party trick? And then like, we put it on the table. Everybody tries to lift it and then I lift it at the end of the night. Oh, come on. You know where Van and I are going to be watching that entire sequence from, the air above you in the cloak of levitation. Because we fly in! That's right.

Yeah. You can fly with Mielnir, but you're going to fly right toward Odin saying, are you the god of hammers or the god of thunder? And then right into Hela, shattering it. Now, let me be clear. Mnoneer is my runner up here. I almost picked Mielnir. I love Nile.

As you can see, I have Mnileneer literally right behind me. One of my favorite things. Where's your cloak of levitation? Red's not really my color. I'm actually partial to Stormbreaker. I like Meanyar. Meanyar means more. I like Stormbreaker.

What are you doing, man? This isn't the Midnight Boys. This is the Versi. This is true. Like even in the comics, Baderet Ray Bill having Stormbreaker, I like Stormbreaker. I like Stormbreaker.

Me and here is like a way to check Thor. Thor is always becoming unworthy, man. It's annoying. You know, it's like, it's like, hey, I can't live. lift the hammer today. I got to go save a space being and then I get it back. Stormbreaker is always down the ride.

Like say, bro, your hair's grown out. You can go on wild, man, come with me. You know? Stormbreaker is very powerful weapon. Do Stormbreaker's very powerful weapon? It's as powerful as me in there, by the way. So, but no, I'm going with the cloak of levitation because it's quirky. It's funny.

It's like a friend. It is like a friend. That's the key. It's many of these things are weapons or tools and they're very useful and powerful in that respect. The cloak of levitation is that, but also it's a companion, you know? Yeah, it's your pal.

Why do people like the ringerverse? Why do people like podcasts? You feel like you're hanging out with your friends? Same thing if you're riding with the cloak of levitation, you know? I already have enough friends. I don't need another one. Side cloak of hesitation. It is time for our next Marvel fact.

From Steve. Steve Olman, our Captain America, our Steve. Hey, everybody, this is Steve Allman, producer here at the Ringerverse with my random MCU fandom fact. And my random fact is that I was actually at the Thor the Dark World premiere back in 2013 in London. I was living in London at the time, and I was going to a pub with a friend of mine. And we randomly stumbled across the street was the theater where Thor the Dark World was premiering. And it was in the middle of the night. There was a giant hammer across the street.

and we got to see Christopher Eccleson and Tom Hylston walk the red carpet amongst a sea of fans. It was a crazy night, and I feel somewhat personally responsible for how bad that movie was. Wait, Steve, real quick, give me your best accent. What, British accent? Yeah.

Okay. Depends to your part at the pub? Okay, I don't know. All right, Steve. Bring Musa bag. Well, of course, if you have, Musa on and then me doing a fake British accent is not going to be good.

Damn, Steve. You made fun of my lightsaber. That's a sound like that. Steve, you got to relax, bro. That was, you brought the whole team down. I thought it was beautiful, Steve. You're saying that right after TD

just brought the whole award ceremony down. Did six drive-bys before? I got to be honest with you. You're right. Yeah. Great factoid. I like the fact of it. I like the fact that you probably left out

that y'all was hammered. We absolutely were. Yeah. Dark world. Underrated movie. So here's the deal. It's just not a bad movie. I totally agree.

It's just, it's just not a bad movie. The MCU floor is just so high. Seriously. It's just not a bad movie. You attacked me for my age of Ultron takes and we're defending. No. It's not a good, it's not a good like MCU.

Right. It's just not a bad movie to watch. It's not a bad movie to watch. Is it one of the worst? you movies, inarguably. Is it still pretty fun? Yeah.

It is no. This is not a bad movie. So you mean to tell me you watch Thor the Dark World and you're just straight bored. You just bored with it. Absolutely, yes. I fell asleep in the theaters. I'm believing in the theaters. I'm pretty good movies, by the way.

I go to the movies a lot and it's a great place to fall asleep. But I'm telling you, Thor to Dark World, first of all, it comes on all the time. It's just not a bad movie to watch. It's a fun movie to watch. It's more rewatchable than Black Panther. Okay.

What is happening right now? It is. It is. We have our next midnight court. It's more rewatchable to Black Panther. How dare you? I already told it is. It is.

Whatever. Just being for real. Midnight boys just broke up live on air. Fuck this. This is what the fifth breakup you guys had? Oh, boy. Jomey. Help us

find some. some healing vibes, some olive branches in the form of those soothing, dulcet tones from the Marvel villains. Give us your award. I'm going to try my best. Happy to be here for the first verses, truly, truly honored to be able to present my award, which is the Jumme Dinner on Award for the best villain monologue in the MCU. We've got five nominees. The first is Loki.

You were made to be ruled speech in Avengers 1. Neil before me. I said, Neil! Second nominee. It's Justin Hammer. Ex-wife speech in Iron Man 2. This is my Eiffel Tower.

This is my Rachmanavirx third. My Pieta. It's completely elegant. It's bafflingy beautiful. And it's capable of reducing the population of any standing structure to zero. I call it the ex-wife. Killmonger. speech in the throne room from Black Panther.

Where was Wakanda? Yeah. All that ends today. Thanos in Infinity War. Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. And now it's here.

Or should I say I am? And last, but certainly not least, Ultron, I got no strings. in Age of Ultron, you want to protect the world, but you don't want it to change. How is humanity saved if it's not allowed to evolve? Amazing line reads. That's so, yeah.

That's what I'm talking about, Jomey. You have a future Oscar winner in tandem with Venn there. Yeah, Jomey's doing his thing. I just want to set it off straight. My choice for a winner. I won't surprise you if you've ever met me or talked to me for more than five minutes. it's Justin Hammer and Iron Man 2

The ex-wife speech What a what a bit of acting from our guy Sam Rockwell All right Let's put some respect on his name What a that Like honestly like I'm again like I'm not an actor I don't do this professionally

If I had to memorize a monologue for an audition Give me Justin Hammer Breaking Down weapons to Don Cheeto For three minutes I'm in I'm here I love that scene that's it. That's my winner. That's my, that's my champ. For me, I'm going to go with Loki.

Such an insane, devious elegance, almost a sublime superiority that he puts on display right there. And it's so indicative of who he is as a character. Loki drops so many jewels in that thing. An ant has no quarrel with the boot. you know what I mean let's just so many different things that he says

I am what does he say he says I am burdened with glorious purpose Jesus Christ you want to make somebody feel like nothing I'm burdened with glorious purpose so I'm gonna go with Loki

I really love Loki in that movie as a villain now where are you going I think that collectively Loki's speeches and monologues across that movie win the day. When he's in the cage on the helic carrier monologuing to Nat, that is harrowing. Harrowing stuff. That's obviously a separate sequence from the one that Jomi is specifically nominating here. But I think if we take that all of a piece, it's hard to top him. the specific Neil sequence.

Disturbing. Deeply disturbing. It's hard for me now, given how many times I've watched Game of Thrones to not hear Joffrey Baratheon there. Neil. Neil before you're king.

I can't separate them. I don't know if that makes it more powerful and impactful or less. Here's the problem with the Justin Hammer speech, Jomey. It's an amazing scene,

but your category is best villain monologue, and the purpose of that scene is to make Justin Hammer look like an asshole, right? It's all setting up him as the butt of the joke and so it is like inherently

definitionally disqualifying. I don't think that's true. Okay. I don't think that's true. All right. I think the Thanos one is tough too because that's an incredible monologue but he has so many.

Jomey's taking it personally. He has so many. I don't know. This is really hard. I think with even with Ultron, you know, my, not my favorite movie. Definitely not my favorite movie.

I think that Ultron's line to cap in particular, ah, Captain America, God's righteous man, pretending you can live without a war, is one of the most cutting moments in the entire MCU that is absolutely devastating. So I'm tempted to pick it just for that. I don't know.

I'm, oh, man, I can't decide. I honestly can't decide. I think I'm going to go with Kilmonger. Oh, Kilmonger's great. I personally thought Kilmonger had better monologues in that movie. Which one would you nominate? The end, when he talks about how he died and how he wants to and where he wants to spend his eternity. Is This Your King was also a contender?

That was also a contender. Is this your king is right there? And I just thought, I just thought that to me, I wouldn't have gone with even Kilmonger talking to the lady in the museum. when he's giving her sort of a, when he's dressing her down on how those relics those relics really got to where they are. So, but yeah, he just,

he was the balls that, that entire movie though. So I got to throw in another Thanos line, to be honest with you. The, you cannot live with your own failure. Where did that bring you back to me? Like that whole,

so good. That whole scene, that whole monologue is like probably the hardest. like hardest villain line and hardest villain monologue throughout them. So you just because like in that moment, you're like, oh my, like, he really is this scary. Like they're not going to. I like how condescending he is. They suspected nothing, father.

The arrogant never do. Like what? I'm telling you, Thanos over and over again makes me feel like I'm the asshole. I'm like, no, you're the jerk. I'm right to be mad at you. You're not the only one. cursed with knowledge is another. Yeah.

Bar for bar, Thanos has the best lines in the MCU by far. Yeah, it's like he gaslights you for the whole movie. You're like, yo,

man, I'm looking at, I'm looking at Thor and Cap and Iron, man, I'm like, yo, are they arrogant?

Like, like, this, Thanos, right? So, you know what? I'm changing

it to Thanos. Me too. Yeah, I'm changing it to Thanos. Yeah. Thano's got to get this in a body of work award. I've changed it to Thano. You're giving Thanos a Lifetime Achievement Award?

I'm giving it to Thanos, man. Our second Lifetime Achievement Award. Well, he has a couple verses now. Is he our first repeat winner of the day? Yeah, I think so. I think so. He's picking them up. He's like, you know.

Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same for Thanas. He's going to get his jewelry. He's going to get it. Mm-hmm. Okay. You're up, Van.

Award number two. Award number two for me. It's called the That Guys with Me Award, aka the best sidekick in the MCU. Okay. All right. These are the nominees. Bucky Barnes.

Falcon. Ned Leeds, who is Spider-Man's guy in the chair. Phil Colson, who is a sidekick of everybody, basically. Maria Hill. She's a good sidekick. She's Nick Fury's sidekick.

Totally a psychic. And I'm going to add one. Nick Fury himself. Oh. Who is kind of a sidekick. What? Maria Hill is her, is his sidekick. Simple day of him.

He is kind of a sidekick. to the Avengers. That's like calling Professor Xavier a sidekick to the X-Men, bro. No, that's not because Professor Xavier is in tactical control of the X-Men, which Nick Fury is not. Nick Fury helps get them together.

He's the one who stops him from squabbling. He helped get them together, and then he acts in a support capacity to them. That's what I would say. All right, well, if we're throwing names in there, I'm throwing my name in there, the sidekick of all sidekicks, MCU Spider-Man.

Oh, he's Iron Boy. He's Iron Man's sidekick. Yeah, like literally, Iron Man gives him the suit. He's like, he's like, hey, little Robin, here's your suit. Come pal around with me. Come pal around with me. I think a protege is different than a sidekick. I think you're being a tad bit disrespectful.

Here's the thing. MCU Spider-Man would not exist without Tony Stark in the same way that Robin would not exist without Batman. Robin lives at Batman's house. Yeah, like what are you like Robin? What you mean? Robin lives with Batman. There would be no Robin. Spider-Man did exist before Tony Stark because that's why we get that wonderful moment where Tony shows up as a Spider-Boy.

He absolutely. He absolutely existed. He was a dude doing it. He just- Who's in the onesie? Not MCU Spider-Man. Hey, hey, you're doing Coke again. He was definitely around.

Tony makes everyone's suits. Yeah, he just didn't have. Now they have a very special bond. Hold on a second. Are you denying that he was doing stuff before? Tony Stark came around because I'm saying the MCU Spider-Man would not be Spider-Man

in this universe if Tony Stark was like here's a suit here you're like come pal around with us come in this be in the Civil War hey your best acting moment throughout this whole franchise is next to me oh I'm in your first movie yeah because it is Tony Stark Ironman and Spider-Man

he is my favorite sidekick They're rolling each other's movies No first of all just no he's not a sidekick How can Nick Fury be a sidekick but Spider-Man can't be a sidekick? Well, even the Nick Fury thing, to be honest with you, even a Nick Fury thing is controversial.

But I would say that Nick Fury pops up to help other people in their movies, which is why you can categorize him as a sidekick if you wanted to, right? He's like, it's a Captain America movie. Nick Fury shows up as a sidekick, right? But here's deal. With Spider-Man, number one, you're being disrespectful.

You're disrespectful. was he like it was like it was spider man he's a protege maybe he looks up to him but it's not he's not his sidekick right here's the here's the thing spider my man spider man and i love spider man in emce you's my favorite spider man my man is always looking for a superhero you you only get one you're all prologge once when mysterio comes he's literally 15 years old he's a child it's a coming of age story it doesn't matter When he's trying to be Mysterio sidekick, I'm like, dude, Mysterio don't got, like, he has nothing.

Nah, man. He's not trying to be Mysterio's psychic. He's trying to rid himself of the terrible burden of inheriting Tony's mantle. You try it. It's a lot of pressure. He just wants to go date girls and hook up in Europe. Tony has a sidekick. It's happy.

Hey, on for real, bro. Spider-Man ain't no sidekick. Stop saying that, bro. Like, that's not right. Like you're not Like he's not a psychic He's like a young dude No he's not

You're not moving off his take are you Like the verses are canceled Like you like you're not moving off this tape Spider-Man is not a psychic in the MCU He has his own sidekick A guy in the chair Ned leads Ned's my pet He's not a psychic

Ned's my pick I go with Ned too Yeah Ned is easily the best side Ned is the quintessential sidekick Proud to be the guy in the chair If I'm not trolling guys, it has to be Bucky.

It has to be Bucky. I don't think Bucky was a very good sidekick at all. Is this the good sidekick award or is this the best sidekick award? Well, how could you be the best? Okay, why is Bucky the best sidekick there? Why is Bucky the best sidekick? Why would Bucky be a better sidekick than Falcon? First of all, what other relationship can span generations can span time, the love that those two have?

That's friendship, though. Bucky is a leading character. His name is in the title of a show. Do you realize that for a lot of those years that Bucky was a mindless assassin and not the sidekick of anyone? Like they weren't in contact. Like they had fallen out of touch, Charles.

Like Steve was like underneath ice and Bucky was killing people for the Russians. And he was such a good sidekick. He was such a good sidekick that Capp threw out all his morals and beat up his best friend to get his sidekick back. That is the mark of a great sidekick. Cap would agree. Look, I have them on the list, so if you want to pick them, you can pick them.

That's cool. Why am I getting beat up? You'll call Thor the Dark World a great movie, so I don't want to hear anything. We did not say that. Guess what? I never said that. Number one, we're going to get beat up for that take. I'm going to get you.

I'm on the record. Wait, wait, wait. I'm going to get beat up for that take. I'm going to get beat up for the Black Panther. They're coming. But I'm just saying, calling Spider-Man a sidekick. In these movies is just like wild, bro. That's wild.

All right. I apologize to the Verskies. I apologize to the Academy. No. No. You don't let me apologize? Hell no. You're like Trump.

Live with it. You can never come back. I'm just joking. Yeah. All right. We got our last one. Yeah. I would say that Bucky certainly started as a sidekick, but graduated into leading

man territory. Same for, same for Falcon. I'm going to go with Ned, too. Actually, yeah, Ned, Ned, I'll have to go with Ned because Ned is the only one of these guys that really acts in specifically a sidekick capacity. There are other sidekicks in Marvel, too. You could argue that Groot is a sidekick.

But you could argue that Groot is a psychic, that Groot is to Rocket, to Rocket. I don't think they're more partners to. They're life partners. They're not, one's not a sidekick. That's disrespect. Did any other character, on this list, sit there and say to a school official,

I'm looking at porn on the school computer in order to cover for the hero in a moment of need. No, only Ned. And by the way, just shout out to Ned for being incredibly resourceful too, because as a high school junior or sophomore, Ned was able to successfully hack Stark Tech to change the directives in Spider-Man's suit as a high school kid, how smart is Ned? He was successfully able

to hack Stark Tech. It's a brutal moment for Tony. Yeah, it is. Our final award of the day for the inaugural verces. Will there be more? Who can say? I hope so. Maybe a part two for Marvel.

And then all these other stories that we can explore together. And the final award comes from one of the not only biggest MCU fans, but biggest fans or scholars, really, of award shows here at the Ringer. Sean Fennacy.

Hey there, it's Sean Fennacy, and what an honor it is to be a part of the first ever Verses as the host of the big picture at the Ringer. I'm here to present the final category, one with meaning, with virtue, and with profundity. It's an award that will stand the test of time.

So here are the nominees for the best acted movie in the MCU award. Avengers Endgame. Black Panther. Captain America Civil War. Spider-Man Homecoming. And Thor Ragnarok. This is hard. I got a call out Sean really quick.

Are we really picking Captain America Civil War over Captain America Winter Soldier for the acting? I think there's more emotional moments in Civil War. maybe. But I think overall the acting in Winter Soldier is a cut above. I think that Civil War has like, it's a good argument. I'm not, I'm not, they're right there. But I think Civil War has a couple of more emotional things. I think Daniel Bruill, like, going back and forth with his family. And then, you know, you have the arc with Tichala losing his dad. I think you maybe have a little bit more emotional weight there. But, but I can see what you're saying. But I think probably Civil War gets it. And, you know, even Tony in Civil War is very, very tortured by the revelation of his parents dying and all of that.

The lady and her son, it's a lot of stuff going on. You know what I mean? Did you know? Brutal. When he tells, when Tony tells Steve to drop the shield, devastating. Yeah. Right. This is hard.

I already know my pick. I think it has to be Black Panther. And the reason it's Black Panther is like, there's not a weak link. Like, there are actors who are. are like not as good as each other, but there's like no weak link actor. Everybody shows up to do what they need to do. Like there's a reason that this was nominated for multiple Oscars.

Like you can't discount, like you can't discount how hard it was for all of those actors to make us care about a bunch of characters that even the comic book fans, to be quite honest, don't even, like, Killmonger, who's Killmonger in the comics? Really, though. You know what I'm saying?

like there's just so much going on in there and I think each one of them like Unbaku like there's no reason that Ubaku should be a character that like everybody's like screaming at the scream like yelling and laughing there's just a level of everybody did their job that Black Panther that I have to give it to me.

Sherry performance is instantly iconic. Yeah. Yeah. Everything that you said is correct, Charles. Everything that you said is correct. And the answer is Avengers In Game. Like everything you said was right. But so I'll tell you why Avengers Ingame It's not even fair to put it in the category really

Because the emotional weight of carrying TD says that Sterling K. Brown is the best acting cameo on the MCU. He's actually very right about that. Fair. Avengers In Game has the extra added sort of advantage of having like 20-some-off films of weight that the actors have to carry.

Right? So they're in these really high-level dramatic emotional moments that you really couldn't get with another film and they just continue to deliver on them or like throughout the entire movie nobody drops the ball everyone's perfect um nat stark ironman everybody like you have hawk eyes slash ronan dealing with every everyone just has so much you have fat thor everybody has so much to do and so it had to be for it to be as good of a movie as it is the best acted in the movie in the MCU? To me, that's like the most,

maybe the most emotional MCU movie. No, to your point, to your point, but what I'm saying is there were more, there were more stakes on everyone, right? And they delivered in these moments. And so what I'm saying is they acted their way through those moments. Black Panther is sublimely and perfectly acted, but there's just some characters that have less to do.

You know what I mean? like Shuri's character is a fun, awesome character but when she gets her own movie, you'll get to see way more range and way more out of the character doing it. They delivered, I think it's Michael B. Jordan's finest work. So, you know, but that's- Over Creed?

Yeah, over Creed. Stop. Yeah, he's better at- Stop. Creed is one of the greatest movies of all time. Get Chase Serrano on this podcast. Creed, Creed is a good movie. No, I'm not fucking, I'm not fucking,

Creed is good. Like, Creed. Better than Fruitvale Station? Gilmonger? He's better as Killmonger than he is in Fruitvale Station. He's better. Now, what's your choice? I'm so mad.

This is hard. I really like Van's argument for endgame. And when I think about that movie, I think of it, in part because it's so long, but really clearly in three acts. And each of those acts require something quite different from the ensemble. You know, that opening stretch is about understanding how everybody is coping with loss and grief and trauma and how they will find the drive and desire

to move forward. The actual mechanics of the time heist, whether you think that worked as basically like world building and mythology, almost aside, that sequence pops and it crackles with electricity and energy because of the humor and the action

and how the actors are able to pull all of that off. And then, of course, the final set piece, the Battle for Earth, into the Codas. Morning Tony, moving on, us watching the characters, find that piece,

finding it in ourselves as fans as we move into the next phase of the MCU. It's beautiful. And my pick is for Black Panther. Yes. I didn't think I would agree with Charles as much as I have on this podcast. I have some personal reflection to do after this.

Guys, here's the thing. Charles knows his stuff. Here's the thing that people don't realize. it's like the Overton window. I just got to push y'all a little bit. And once I tried out, just kind of like a lukewarm tick, they're like, damn, I kind of agree with them. That's what I'm doing with all the listeners.

You'll never get us there with Spider-Man as a sidekick, though. Just know that. Never. Spider-Man is a sidekick was so crazy that when I picked Black Panther, you're like, damn. Charles, he's back in my corner. The cast and the performances in that movie are impeccable. impeccable. But I will say

now, this is the type of chess I will be playing when we do the draft whenever we do it. I'm already working on my color-coded spreadsheet. Rest assured. Closing thoughts here. Closing thoughts. The camera's panning out. The music's playing. The credits are rolling.

Everybody's asking how the verses ran as long as they did. Any closing thoughts here at the end? I'd say my closing thoughts is this. if you guys look how deeply we were able to go into the mythology and the magic of all of these movies and these television shows is just a testament to the not perfect but just unbelievable execution from Kevin Feigy and the crew over there at the MCU. Like you can say whatever you want.

You can say that the movies are too formulaic. You can say that they have a villain problem. You can say all that they've ruined film and made movie going to. today just a big IP bonanza. You can say whatever you like, but in my opinion, the MCU is one of the finest achievements in filmmaking in the history of film. To be able to cut and weave these stories together, make them coherent, make them make sense, and make them matter. When we went to endgame and we dumped all of our emotions out,

that's because those characters mattered to us. Absolutely. They mattered. It's not just a superhero movie. It's movies of gods and legends and things like that. So I'm happy to be here to celebrate it, man. I love the MCU, and I'm excited about the future of it. That was beautiful.

Couldn't agree more. To all the listeners, I'm just going to say to all the listeners, if you listen to a podcast that is most likely longer than end game, all I can say to you guys is I love you, $3,000. This was so fun. Thank you. Thank you to everyone. A trophy size.

Thank you to our intrope. repid producer, Steve Allman, as well as to the architect of the Verses TD St. Matthew Daniel and to our Juno Ramgo Paul and our entire production team for all of their help with not only the Verses, but all of the Ringerverse. Thank you, of course, as well. The Lord of the Memes, Jomi Adon, for his work on the social for this episode and for being the only one who took the prompt to dress up seriously. Incredible showing from Jomey. And thank you, of course, to all of our guest presenters, Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan, David Shoemaker, Musa Akwanga, Daniel Chin, and of course, everybody who we already just thanked who also presented.

Remember, follow us. Follow us on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Follow us across our social channels. And head back into the Ring Reverse next week. The Loki goodness is beginning. And remember, we like Loki will be entering our alternate timeline starting next week. The Midnight Boys will be with you every Wednesday with our instant reactions to the latest Loki episode. And then I will be back with you on Fridays to dive into the episode analysis theories, mailback questions and more. All right, friends, we have honored the MCU. And now, very briefly, I'm going to try to honor the Midnight Boys.

Channel my inner Charles here. See if I can do this. We've awarded the Verses. We've sipped our virtual champagne. now the Midnight boys are going back to arguing about Superman and Lois Lane. Best day of my life.