The Ringer-Verse - The Worst Films in Fandom Draft | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Are you ready for the best of the worst? The Midnight Boys are here to give you their draft for some of the worst films in all of fandom (06:50). From the underappreciated to the fairly maligned, this draft has all the films that fandom would rather forget. And later, the boys follow up on their discussion of the Midnight Meter Hall of Fame then have a discussion about fandom, in general, to help clear the air (89:12). Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Steve Ahlman, and Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Save at Whole Foods Market. Come into the ringerverse. This is of course the ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things. Movies. We are. Coke Baby Chuck, the 24-carriage closer, aka the brunch hot. We are. Old Man Van, he of the receding, not yet resurgent hairline.

We are, Jomi, the Explaner at Dinner on. And Steve, the architect Almond, the tinker of things. Together we are known as a, of a midnight, boys. Got to follow us, okay? The 10% of you that matter. You have to follow us on socials. Insta, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. Save Jomi's job.

Jomi, how are you feeling about your job security these days? Hey, man, you know, it's tough with Elon doing this thing out here. They might shut down TikTok. You know what I mean? It's tough. You never know, you know. Are you the CEO of Twitter, Jomey? I haven't gotten the email back yet.

I did apply. First thing I'm going to do is ban Elon from the app. That's number one. Like, we getting him up out of there. That might be hurting your chances in the interview. Then we're just going to go back to chalk, bro. We're going to literally just read it back like it was 2018 all over again. We have to find a way to drive Tesla stock now.

Oh, okay. So we got a succession that stock. Yeah, we do because think about it. Elon didn't have the 44 billy cash to buy Twitter. He wasn't looking like that. So we have to use the Tesla stock, all right, to get him level. enough to go ahead and buy it. If we can drive the Tesla stock down,

some of the people that he did this deal with might be margin call on Elon. We want our money because the Tesla stock is going down too low for your worth to be able to buy it. So we got to find a way to drive down the Tesla stock for some margin call on Elon, and then maybe we can get them out the paint. Maybe.

It'd be wild if the Midnight Boys are the people we take down Tesla. No, you guys think about it. You imagine in just the history books? Think about it. Think about if there's a way to drive down Tesla's the stock. If there's a way for us to drive it down and get Elon out the paint.

That's the hope for getting Twitter back. You know, because he doesn't have the bread. Or maybe the government will give him another subsidy. Who knows? All right. This Friday, the House of R will be giving you their spring and summer hype meters on the newest releases. Next Wednesday, the Midnight Boys, will be discussing some of the worst decisions in fandom.

That's not going to be interesting. Worst decisions. Like, what does that entail? What's a bad decision? Could be like... Somehow Palpatine return. Oh, that's a good one. Mm-hmm.

That's a good one. Josh Whitten? Yeah. Josh Whedon? Justice League? See, this might get me in trouble. Like, this might get me in trouble. Would you say DC handing the keys only to Zach Snyder?

Like, they only, he was the only person allowed to make DC movies for, like, near a decade. Mm-hmm. might have been not the racist. Well, I mean, it's not true, but he did make a lot of them. Because remember, Patty Jenkins and James Wong, they, you know, they had, they did some decent. Yeah, but they were later, because it was, what was the chrono?

It was Superman? It was Superman, then Batman and then Wonder Woman. Aquaman, yes. Aquaman Justice. But, yeah. So not the only person. You're right there. But in terms of the big movies,

all being directed by one guy, like Man of Steel, Justice League, Batman v. Superman, anything with Batman Superman in them? Nah, they shouldn't have done that. Nah, fuck that. We're going to get in trouble on this spot. I'll be honest with you. They should have done it.

They shouldn't have done it. And now I'm so excited about Superman legacy coming up because Superman's going to be a nice guy, and I've seen some test footage of him making origami animals for people around Metropolis. He's going to be a real nice guy. He can fly in and make you a bank Alaska. I just can't.

wait. I'm telling you, it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough. They're basically right. Okay. Okay. Today's show, we're conducting a draft of the worst films and all of fandom. Later in the episode, we're going to announce the movies that the fans voted into the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame. Now, we have various different Hall of Fame here on the Midnight Boys. We have the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame.

and we have the Jomey a dinner on five Hall of Fame. So there are going to be some movies. Hall of five. That are going to be in the Hall of Five. The Hall of Five for Jomey. All right. Jomey, you're going to get to choose the movies that are in the Hall of Five.

Okay? Oh, man. All right. It was on you for the Transformers pick. I didn't realize, like, the hatred for Transformers was out of control. And I was talking to somebody about this. It's, Transformers, Agency Shield. I come on this podcast.

and I share about things I love and I get ridiculed for it. Like, I feel like this should be a safe space where I could come and be like, hey, Jomey, I love these things and be like, hey, Jomey. When has this ever been a safe space? I'm not. Like, it's nuts. It should be, but it's not. I be like, man, I love my mother. Y'all be like, hey, Jomey's mom sucks.

I'm like, dang, guys, like, what are we doing here, bro? That is so far. How God, you don't ever. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. I just kind of feel like y'all's shit like that. I just kind of feel like y'all should be considered my feelings. Yeah.

You would never go again. against. I kind of like y'all should, you know, be considered how I feel. Now, your dad, we, we have opinions. Your mom is okay. Respect my father. All right. Chuck is presiding over the festivities today.

Take it away. Coke, baby. All right. So, with last week's induction of the Midnight Meter 12s, we've decided to draft some of the worst films in all of fandom. From superheroes to adaptations, we give you some of the worst and wildest films. And to be clear, the goal of this draft

is to pick the worst of the worst that have graced the screen. So when you place your vote for the winner, it should be based on who did the best at drafting the bottom of the barrel in terms of fandom, superhero, sci-fi content. This is going snake draft.

Order will be chosen by Arjuna. Take it away, Arjuna. All right. Picking first is Van second is Charles third is Jomey and fourth is Steve oh well look at that

look how that goes interesting how does it feel not to be born on third base Steve oh jeez your film van okay okay so when I think about worst films

I think about films that weren't just bad but they were also catastrophic in what they did to careers, to studios, and to fandom. Okay? And if you're thinking about films that were really catastrophic, films that threatened to end careers, films that made complete studios change their minds about what they were going to do and how they were going to do it.

There's one movie that I would pick at the top of this. It stars a guy who had to jump to another universe to gain his redemption. I'm picking Green Lantern number one. Okay. Now, so here's the deal. Greenlander is not just bad. Greenlander made us go, Ryan Reynolds, I don't know. You know what I mean?

He's had ups and downs. He's had a lot of ups and downs. Yeah, you're just like, Ryan Reynolds. He was cool in the proposal. but then like Green Lantern just it showed us everything that we didn't want from a superhero movie. Ucky, yucky CGI, weird villains, completely destroying fertile lore. It was a total miss. There's one cool part in the movie.

Does anyone know it before I move on? There's one cool part. Is it we're going to fly now? What was the? I don't know. My favorite, my part is when he has the lantern. and he says the Green Lantern's motto and his eyes turned.

I was like, ooh, this might be good. And then he was like, nah, this fucking shit sucks. So, uh,

movie was bad. Kind of knocked DC off of his pivot for a while. Um, and kind of is responsible for ushering in the Snyderverse in a lot of ways. I really, I really think that like, I think we should have like a separate conversation after we do this draft about like the thing that could have had the best potential if they're good versions of

these movies came out, I think Green Lantern could have been the highest because I love Green Lantern, and I really think that this movie is why we haven't seen anything out of the Green Lantern camp for the longest time when it comes to the DC-EU. And I think that's the biggest missed opportunity. To know that we haven't seen John Stewart at all in all these years because of this movie probably is really sad. Dude, John Stewart, how Jordan, like, they don't want anything associate of Greenlander out here, bro. It was bad. It was bad.

I will say Green Lantern was one of my favorite superheroes as a teenager. And just like the sadness of like I was at the age where I could go to the movies by myself. I was using my own money. I'm like, yeah, all right, cool, cool, cool. Like, this is about to be it. This is the start. And just the fucking devastation of like sitting on the screen. And you know like five or ten minutes and you're like, it's going to get better.

Like they don't get cooking. They're going to go to space, blah, blah. And that shit just kept getting. worse and worse. Once they had, you remember the big CGI head motherfucker? That shit was terrible.

Paralax. Oh, boy. My favorite part of the movie is there's an after credit scene with Cinesho getting the yellow power ring and we're like, hey man, we're getting a sequel.

It's like, ah, do they know? Next time, baby. Yeah. It's tough. No shot. So Van, Van picked a very, very good film, but I'm arguably going to pick a film that's worse. You guys are going to be like, how is this worse? This type of movie is what we call

a TNT classic. All right. This film derailed one of the most beautiful women, one of the most talented actors we've ever gotten his career. This movie, let's see, the budget was 100 million and the box office was 82. Oh, I think I know. I know what exactly. I'm taking Catwoman. Yeah, got to take it. We got to take Catwoman. Did you say the T&T special because it's also airing on T&T all the time? All the time. Like I've seen this movie way more than I've wanted to. Just because as a kid, I was like, all right, I guess I'm watching Catwoman.

It's Catwoman, the Shawshank Redemption. This movie, the basketball scene to this day is one of the funniest things that have ever been committed. That's so crazy. It's this. This is wild. I'm pretty sure my parents saw this in theaters and just seeing their faces being like, why did we waste our money and our time on this? It's just, it's this.

It has to be Catwoman. Shout out to Hallie Berry. I feel really bad putting this on the list. I'm going to be honest. I've never seen this movie. You've never seen Cala. Really? Yeah.

So I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm serious. That's what it was. I remember Ian went to go see it. And then this was, what, 2003? 2005. So 3, 2004. And Ian went to go see it.

And he was like, nah, dog. That shit is white. And I couldn't bring myself to do it. I always wanted to watch it. But I almost get secondhand embarrassment. You know what I mean? I get secondhand embarrassment from the film. It's like, it's just looking at it.

It looks crazy. It's so weird because weirdly enough, Hallie Barry kind of has like a weird, like, you know, on the joke spirit about it after all these years. Like, she kind of jokes at herself about being in that movie and like she was like kind of a good sport at the Razzie's about it at all. And it weirdly enough, that's kind of endeared it to me a bit, like to see just how bad that is and to know that she's kind of cool with like being in on the joke.

Not that she went out to make a bad movie or anything, but like being like, yeah, that one was whack. That was a miss. God damn, Steve, you're just a fucking pander bear. Just fucking. Would you stop? Barry's not going to fuck you, bro. We don't know.

You know what I'm saying? We don't know. Like you don't know, like you don't just like, Hallie Barry was such a good sport about it. It sucked, Steve. Yeah. All right. It sucked.

And she could have just never talked about it again, but she makes jokes about it. I like it. You know, it'll be funny. It'd be funny if one day we were all at some party one time and Hallie Barry walks up to Steve and puts her hand on his shoulder and then runs her finger down his chest and was like, I heard what you said about cat woman.

And they just purrs in his ear. Do you know how fucking drove we would all be? You know, I'm mad. We would be, you know, if Hallie Berry came over with Steve. Steve, Steve, I'll never doubt, Steve. Steve knows how to get to the black ladies. He doesn't know if he's going to get to Hallie Berry. Oh, right.

I changed my mind. At first I was against it. Now I'm for it. Before we go, do you guys know what the Rotten Tomato score for Green Lantern is? I would guess in like the 20s or the teens? It's a 12. It's in the 20s. Uh-huh.

Oh, it's in the 20s. Oh, man. Boy. It's a 26 percent. Can you guess what? Catwoman is on Rod's video. Probably zero. Eight.

Not zero, but it's in the single digits. Is it eight? Really? It's an 8%. Hey, but you know what, though? I will say about this is this also has to do, that probably also has to do with the familiarity of the character. There are probably people that talk themselves into thinking Green Lantern wasn't as shitty.

I can't judge this because of Catwoman, but Green Lantern, I would imagine Green Laner probably made a lot more money than Catwoman, too. It's just a bigger movie. Yeah. Disasters. Both of them, though. Good pick. Show me. You got the next pick. Got the next pick.

I mean, this is just one of the worst films I've ever seen. So here's the thing, right? I pride myself, like, I watch, you know, y'all know me, man. I love things that aren't like the best things in the world, right? I have never walked out of a movie before. This is the first time in my life that I ever walked out of a film because I couldn't do it. Ladies gentlemen, there is no movie in Boston. Singh say. Going with the last airbender.

Ugh. Oh, criminal. The M. Knight Chamelon last airbender. God damn. Absolutely criminal. Just, um, just awful. Just awful film. I mean, on. I mean, we can start there.

The acting's bad. The CGI. There's no redeeming quality about this film. And you know me, man, Mr. Positive. I try my best to be like, man, but you can look at, uh, but what about, there's nothing, folks. There's nothing there that makes you go,

man, I want to see this movie again. It's one of the worst films ever made. One of the worst things I've personally ever seen. And I can only hope and pray that Netflix doesn't ruin it again, which they probably might. But, you know, who knows? Wait, Jomey, do you remember back in the day when we first saw, like, the cast?

And they just cast it a bunch of white folks. And I was just like, not only did that. When I knew, I was like, we're done. They cast a bunch of white folks as the good guys. They cast a bunch of ethnic people as the bad guys. Yeah. It's like, oh, like we should have known from the jump, from the jump. It was going to be bad.

I love you, M. Knight, but that was rough. That was a rough one. Love you, love you, M. Knight. What has he done to get your, I mean, look, M. Knight is good when he's good. But what is he done to get the love you, M-night from you? What are your M-night? Well, tell me, give me your M-night. I appreciate,

I appreciate M-night, like, fun in his own movies, like, after everybody thought he was for dead, like, he's just like, fuck out of here. So I'm not personally a fan of his movies, but, like, hey, I like, pat on the back, M-night. I do respect the, like, the sheer amount of at-bats this dude has had, and, like, the seemingly, like, bad will that he had, he could possibly generate, but still every time that we see a new trailer for an M-night movie, we're, we're like, oh, fuck, could this be good? But to be fair, white directors get those at that, and we don't ever blink. Like, how many times

have we seen some, like, some Michael Bay movies where we're like, man, like, you just keep giving this one. Yeah, but you know what the difference is, you know what the difference is, though? Those movies, even though they're bad, a lot of them make a shit ton of money. True. Some, I mean, I'll be honest with you. Though, M. Knight's movies are profitable. Like, M. Night. Yeah. First of all, if you look at M-night,

M-night is not bad. He's inconsistent. A lot of people like knock at the cabin. I hated it. A lot of people liked that movie. But old wasn't that bad for me. I dug old. Split was good.

Then after split, when they did, was a glass. Yeah, glass. That was good. Unbreakable. Great. He makes movies that are like, some of the movies are so sticky. They stick to you that you never know when one is going to stick to you and never let you go. Like the Sixth Sense has never let me go.

Unbreakable has never let me go. You know what I mean? So you never know when he's going to have one of those movies. It just kind of sticks to you. So it's hard to count him out. You know what I mean? So one quick follow-up, man. Who would you say is more consistent as a director?

M. Knight or Zach Snyder? I mean, probably M-night, you know? Y'all just see Vince. I mean, look, Zach, I mean, one could argue that Zach hadn't made him a good movie in a long time. Whoa, the zombie movie on Netflix is pretty good. No, it wasn't. That wasn't that bad. You're talking about the, yeah, okay.

So, yeah, that one, that one wasn't. With Batista? That shit was good. I like that one. I like that one. Yeah. You didn't fuck with it? There's robot zombies.

What is that? What does that mean? Really? No, I don't know. Man. They don't address it. They don't acknowledge it. There's like this big, huge world that exists, and we have no idea what's going on in it.

You know what? I actually enjoyed that movie. I actually forgot about that one. I liked that film. And I liked that kind of taking it back there a little bit. I dug that. You guys, I'm, I didn't love it. I don't know.

I'm not as high as it. Like, I don't hate it. But I definitely was like, there's so many unanswered questions here. Like, what are we doing? They just tell like a great. They got a sequel, Jomi, give him a time. All right. We don't see.

We don't see. All right, Steve, you got two picks. Where are you going? Oh, boy. It's a lot of bad going around this room. I think my first pick has to be the thing that while this ultimately, I don't think is the worst movie that I could possibly pick, I think I hate this movie the most. More so even than how good or bad it is than what it actually represents. And the amount of online iron vitriol that the Snyderverse has actually activated to a lot of people in this space has gotten me so, so mad over the years.

And when the Justice League came out, I don't think that there has ever been like a sort of greater, like, immediate reaction to a movie that is immediately the wrong way to look at something. To have a fan base immediately say like, hey, this is wrong, fix it, and then spend like the better part of a decade trying to course correct is like probably the worst, like the meanest intent I've seen this space become. And for that alone, I have to put the Justice League from 2017 up there. It's terrible.

Oh, it was a rough going in the theater. Like, I remember sitting in a movie theater and you know Justice League wasn't hitting because this was the, this was opening weekend. And when I tell you, I think there was maybe five people in the theater, it was one of the most like, to your point, Steve, how does a fandom get activated against? against a movie so quickly. And I'm not talking about Snyder fans. I'm talking about just regular comic fans being like immediately fuck this movie. Fuck Josh Sweden.

Fuck everybody. Right. This shit was terrible. Seeing, dog, seeing the CGI that they did from my man, uh,

Henry Cavill's mustache. Look, Justice League died. Justice League died so Mission Impossible Fallout can live. And for that reason alone. That's great. You know,

I'm very happy for it. Very happy for it. very happy for it. It's not good. I didn't mind it as much as I didn't hate it as much as other people did. It's not a good movie, though. It's definitely not good. I still ride for Zach Snyder's Justice League, though.

That's fine. That's fine. Sniggetty, Sniggetty, Sniggett. The eight hour box. Sniggity. Snigot. Snigot. Snigot. Snigot. Sniggity, Snigot. I still ride for the Snigginess. But, no, it's not good movie.

It's a good pick, Steve. It really, it just, it gets me mad that the Snyder Bros were activated because of that piece of junk. And then we got a bunch of bad will for years. They wanted their movie. They got their movie to come out. Fans. For HBO Max. Is this the most consequential bad superhero movie of all time in terms of just like how much damage it did to a universe?

It's possible only, but like I would debate it because there are so many other ones that are also bad that came just before it that were like simmering the pot of like bad faith Snyderverse fans that this was the culmination of being like of them being like you fuck this all up fix it or we're gonna just harass every possible journalist

and credible voice in this space until we give what we want. Like that that pot was already boiling then but like this was just the tip off point. Superhero movie maybe but in terms of like you know movies that we definitely like covered movies

we definitely like that might come up here I think there's one movie that eclipses it we might we might talk about it later but I think there's for sure one movie we won't ruin it then we won't ruin it so you get a second pick what do you do when you adapt a well

well known book that's like you know barely 100 pages but you got a really great director to do it you make three movies out of it the first Hobbit might have been the most aggravated I've ever been just the idea to know that this was going to be a trilogy. And wow, could this not have been more of a swing in the mist to one of

the most beloved stories of all time? And like, I think the cast is awesome. I think getting Peter Jackson back at the helm was good. But I think the studios wanting to make this a trilogy for the sake of money really stretched the story way too thin and was a major, major disappointment. It's so bad. The Hobbit, though? Come on.

There's way worse movies than the hobby. I'm not saying. There are worse movies, but like, that's a huge letdown. Like the scale to like what Jackson gave us from Lord of the Rings down to this, that's fucking rough. That's real rough. Here's the thing. I want all of y'all Lord of the Rings fans that was coming at Van and I last fucking episode. Wow.

My fucking. The Iron doesn't stop. Like, if y'all don't go to Steve, we know how. how you feel about black people. That's all I'm going to say. Here's a thing. I'm joking. No, no, no.

First of all, I can't really comment on The Hobbit because, as you guys can probably guess, I haven't seen one fucking nanosecond of this movie. Right, yes. By the way, I'm picking the first film. So I haven't seen any of it. I had absolutely zero interest, okay? However, I will say this.

And we'll talk about the last podcast a little bit later. I take umbrage with the people that had an issue with me and Lord of the Rings, the Return of the King, because I gave the movie a 12. I gave the movie all of its flowers. What the fuck you want me to do? It's the yokech of movies. It was, it's the yokechish of movies.

You beat me down. He's legitimately amazing. Hold on, wait. He's been like, you beat me down. He's fucking amazing. I tried to hate. I can't. The motherfucker's too good.

Facts. Here's the deal. The movie, I get why it's a big deal. It's the MVP. Fucking B. Okay? The movie's a 12. All right?

It's a 12. What do you want me to say that I fucking enjoyed it? I didn't like it. What are you offering me? It's a 12. By the way, it's not that I didn't like it. It was cool. Like, you know what I'm saying?

The movies are 12 in every way. Fuck. It was definitely on the Lakers lost. It was honestly one of the weirdest reactions I've ever seen. I don't know, man. We were like, it was cool. Like, it was cool. It was 12.

And everybody was like, how dare you? First of all. It got a unanimous vote from all of us. Like, we were still like, I was like, bro, we all voted for it. The movie was a 12th. I loved the two towers. I think the two towers is the best of the three of the films. I really.

enjoyed it. Okay? And I said that and people are just mad. What y'all want me to do? It is mad that like you're, they're trying to like clockwork orange you just make you love it. You like you must love it. It has to love it. It wasn't for me. I was in the theater like, yo man, I'm happy for everybody. Can we go?

I'm happy for everybody. Bro, I was legitimate. I'm not even bullshit. I was happy for everyone. But I'm like, it's over. Anyway, it's a hobbit. Never saw it. Do you guys all saw it? Jami, you saw it? So here's the thing, right? When I got into when they were like, you got to watch the three movies, I was like, cool, bet, is that it?

Do I just watch the three of them? They're like, yeah, you don't got to watch The Hobbit, trailer, my boy, just save your time. So, you know, I'm not. We should get Joe on here with. That's what we should really do. Because I feel like Joe is the only person that we do this. I want to get Joe on the next episode.

I want a little Lord of the Rings clear out. So we can have this in good faith because I'm really not trying to diss the Lord of the Rings fans. I really respect you guys as fandom and the fact, like, my brother is super fucking hot. This nigga went all the way to New Zealand. Okay? To hang, he did, bro.

22-hour flight. Bro. No bullshit. He went there. He was there for 26 hours. And then he came back. Just because he had a little time. Barely longer than the flight.

Dog. And he went and froliced in the shire. And I'm like, and I'm like, Don, that's some real shit, bro. That's some real shit. So I'm not trying to hate on the fans at all. Does everything have to be for me? You know, okay, let's move on.

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Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted vanilla, and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. Jomey, what's your second pick? Oh, man. So this one is tough because this, you know, when I talk about my history in superhero movies and things like that, the first iteration of this, film gave me life.

This is honestly what brought me into this world. This is what gave me to this world. This is like the first comic book characters I ever loved. And unfortunately, we've never gotten a great adaptation on screen. And the last film that came out was arguably one of the worst things we've ever seen. And so it's with heavy heart. I got to go with Fan Forstick, the Fantastic Four movie from 2015, that that movie

stinks. The first one? No, from 2015. Oh, from 2015. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know how I feel about that one? 2005. As I wrote, that was going to be your next 12

if you had your chance. That's some respect. No, but the one from 2015 with Miles Teller and Kate Mara and Michael B. Jordan is just, it's tough. It's a tough watch. I tell you straight up.

You're not going to be able to come get Korean barbecue with me and Josh. I was going to bring you. Dude, I would love to talk to Josh about it. That's out. Because the tweet, no. No, you definitely don't. Josh will fucking lose it on you.

Trank. So you don't want to know what happened. I want to know what happened. You definitely don't. Dude, I was telling you this on the way to the game, right? Like, the first third of the movie is completely serviceable, completely fine. Right? We're like, okay, cool.

We're sending these characters. Here's what they do. Here's where they are. All right. Let's get them. Let's get to them powers. And then it's just like, I don't even say fall off a cliff because that would be too nice. It's literally like the ground opened up below them.

And they just like, the movie just sinks to this unbearable watch. And the Dr. Doom involved is like, there are not even words that I can formulate to say how bad the Dr. Doom was, you know, and just how upsetting the movie was coming out. out. You know, I would love to talk to Josh, but like, bro, what happened, man? Please tell me because I love these characters, right? This is what got me into this whole space. How did it go so bad?

You know, I would love to, I'd love to hear it. I love to hear it. Tell me, I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah. Here's things. I'm with you. I don't, I don't got connections out here. So I'll be real. You're never going to have them either. No, no, no, look.

Like, you know, whatever. I get you guys. it's fine. I know that's your boy. I know that's your boy. I know that's your boy. I would love to know what happened. I read the article,

I think it was like Variety or Hollywood Reporter. They came on like a couple years ago when he was doing his movie with Tom Hardy. It's like, yeah, man, like studio involvement, all these things. And I'm like, like, bro, how much the studio get involved, bro? You know, like how could they deliver on that? It's mind-boggling.

I will say this. With a movie of that, all I'll say is this. Obviously, Josh is a good filmmaker. With a movie of that sort of caliber, with the IP that's involved, there are a lot of people that get involved in films like that, especially if you haven't made like 15 or 20 movies or something like that. And so we've seen it before. I mean, you guys have seen the movie.

So it's like, whatever. We've seen it before. Any director or any creative in that situation, always has a story about the movie that they actually wanted to make. And I love to, I'd love to have Josh on to talk about it. He's a good guy. I like him.

He's a crazy motherfucker. But I love, I love Trank. He's a, he's a friend of mine. All right. So for my second pick, I'm going to go with a movie that we are still feeling the ripple effects of.

A movie that, dare say, not only ruined an entire trilogy of films, but has basically, press pause on everything that's come after, I'm going to go with Star Wars to Rise of Skywalker. Talk about it. Just in terms of like, there we go.

There are moments where I'm just like Rise of Skywalker. Like, it's not the worst shot movie on this list. It is not the worst written movie on this list. But I would, I would say it's at least in the top three, top five most consequential films in fandom that we've gotten in terms of just like, oh, an entire company was put on their back foot after this movie comes out. In terms of just like, I remember before this, the sequel trilogy, people were rocking with it. Even if The Last Jedi, whatever, so, like, people were still like quality films.

After the Rise of Skywalker comes out, the way we talk about the sequel trilogy is just utterly cursed. So for that, I have to put this on the list. So what I would say about this movie is there are worse movies, but I don't know if there are worse moments. I'm serious. Yeah. There are worse movies, but I don't know if there are worse moments because this movie signified a complete lack of direction, a lack of understanding and a lack of connection with not. just the audience, but with the art of filmmaking that had infected the brass over at Lucasfilm. Like, there's very rarely, is there a film that just shows that a group of people just don't

know what they're doing? And the reactionary way that the movie tries to address the Last Jedi, the fact that the film itself seemed to not take itself seriously at all, and this was the culmination of something. I don't know if there is a worse moment. Movie, it's bad. It's not the shittiest of dog shit. It's pretty bad, though. But I don't know if there's a worse moment

to where we just go, hey, they have no clue what they're doing. They don't know what they are, where they want to go, or who they want to be right now. I can't think of another film. And Charles, you talked about earlier, like the consequential movies in fandom,

like superhero movies like sure like what was it Green Lantern might have been like one of those this movie is like one of the most important in terms of

we haven't seen a Star Wars movie since right Disney spent four billion dollars on the thing it was like we get two movies a year Rogue One Solo the sequel trilogy Rise of Skywalker came out they shut that thing down

yeah They said, no, sir. We're going to go all the way back to the drawing board. It's been what? It's going to be like almost eight, nine years before we get a movie from Star Wars. And like they canceled movies. Like you could argue that like solo what might have been a nail in the coffin, but like as far as like, okay, like that's what you had to say and this is what we did.

Like the story behind, like I desperately want to know the story behind. behind the transition of power between the filmmaking team behind Last Jedi to Rise of Skywalker. Because that, like, in between time, that fan blowback and then the subsequent realignment of everything that they were going to do, firing their first director for that third movie, and then moving on to JJ and then scrambling to fix that, that's an entirely, like, chaotic way to go about this and then to know ultimately that they didn't have a plan in the first place. They were just going movie to movie

each time, which feels insane. It's a really fun story, Steve. So, Colin Trevor, Roe. I don't know if you know him, but he was supposed to direct, he was supposed to direct the last Star Wars movie, right?

But he made Jurassic World, okay? All that money. Oh my gosh, right? to like this dude is hot you know he did safety not guaranteed before if you know that one you know he was like man he's coming off big movies

then in 2017 he made Booker Henry and his shoes is like nah man now man we gotta get this dude up out of here you know that couple with the last Jedi oh my like it's like I don't I don't understand like how like

those two things could create something so horrendous and so Again, I think there's a lot more than, there's a lot more than just, I think, a filmmaker, a director making a poorly received movie in the interim between one film another because there's a whole team of people behind those things. There's writers. Like, if we had seen the original treatment that Trevor O had for his post Last Jedi story. And like, again, it's not a completed movie, but like the trajectory of what that story that he had originally had was compelling for sure.

but to know that like I've watched all the YouTube videos on his alleged treatment the duel of the facts and I'm just like this would have it would have been great either it wasn't great either I mean sure

but like it's better than Rise of Skywalker I mean you don't know like no we don't know he didn't make it yeah no he didn't he didn't yeah but like to know that that was more of a top down scramble from like the head brass the Kathleen Kennedys of the world

to just basically wipe that slate and be like all right get JJ in here fire up a script and fix everything that was just left with the last movie that everybody wasn't happy with. That was crazy. I'll say something else about the Rise of Skywalker. The Rise of Skywalker,

we're talking about fandom right now, and we joke about fandom and we ingest, we sort of try to criticize it, embrace it, have fun with it. But fandom is inherently toxic in a lot of ways,

and we know this, right? So, like, Rise of Skywalker and Last Jedi demonstrated something. It demonstrated the hold that the fan groups, how loud they are, have on the creators, right? In Star Wars, you make the movies based upon the story that you're trying to tell. First of all, even if you go back to Force Awakens, it's unclear the story that they're trying to tell. Because it seems like obviously recycling the old story. I'm not sure if our story is watching the demise of the First Order. If our story is watching Ray become a Jedi, I'm not sure what the story is there.

I'm not sure what it is. And then by the time last Jedi comes out and Ryan Johnson tries to kind of clarify the story that he wants to tell, which seems to be of a newness in the galaxy, right? Letting old things die, newness gets there. You know who said no to that? It wasn't Disney, it was us. The collective us, yeah. Yeah, the collective us.

It wasn't Disney that said that it was actually me. I left the movie like, how the fuck you're going to kill Luke Skywalker like that? That's not what I came to see. I came to see Luke Skywalker break a point. part, a tie fighter with his bare hands using the force. That's what I came to see. I came to see Luke Skywalker blow up a planet with the force. I didn't come there to see him make a Tupac hologram,

Coachella of himself, and then die. You know what I mean? And so I'm walking out of the theater and Colica's looking at me. She's like, what's wrong with you? That was good. I'm like, look, get out of here, nigga. Nigga, you don't know. Like, you know what I'm saying?

I want to see Luke stranded in his ex-wing. Like having to get picked up by Talancard and Mara Jade. I want to see erred in the empire. That's what I want to see. That's what I want to see. That's what I want to see. And they didn't give it to. And so we go back and we bitch. And you know what Disney went?

All right. Here you go. Here's a sloppy Joe, bitch. You know, like, eat this sloppy Joe. Literally. Literally. I don't literally. I think they liked it.

I think they liked it. I think they was drinking champagne somewhere. Like, look at these motherfuckers. You thought it couldn't get any worse? Fools you, bitch. You know what I mean? So this movie is just like, it's complete chaos. Narrative, fandom chaos.

It's one of the worst moments in the history of fandom. It really is. They try to pin it on solo, which is insane, by the way. Solo's not that bad. of a movie. Solo's not great, but it's not a bad movie. It's not.

It's like, oh, we can't make, we can't go to the theaters or more solo than make no money. It's like, we've seen Rise of Skywalker. Who are you lying to, Brett?

It's not, but the lead just didn't have a hold on the role, man. And that's the thing that makes solo. Like, solo's not that bad of a movie. Just the lead didn't have a hole. I really, when I say that,

when people were going crazy, I was like, what's the big deal? I mean, he wasn't fucking great as Han Solo. But I believe, that he was Han Solo because you guys told me he was. And that's the agreement we go on when we go to the movies. So like you guys said he was Han Solo.

So I believe that he's on solo. He doesn't remind me of the old Han Solo, but I don't know. But I will say this. It's wild that they were like, yo, there's going to be a whole plot thread where where Donald Glover fucks the Millennium Falcon. That shit was wild, bro. Like even in the theater, I was like, what are you doing?

I love it. I love to see Darth's mall. I love to see Darth's mall show up. I mean, that movie was, what's his face? Jarvis was in that bitch, Paul Bettney. Yeah. Acting fucking unhinged. What the fuck?

I loved him in the movie. It's not that bad to me. You know what we should do? We should do another episode of, hey, fandom movies. Actually, not that bad. Okay. It's crazy underrated. We should.

We should do movies that are unfairly maligned. And we should all make a case. You know what we should do? Van, what if we do? Overrated, rated, underrated. We all come with our picks. I'm with that. I'm with that.

Overrated, rated, underrated. I'm with it. I'm with it. All right, you got to, before you go, let's just for the viewers, you have Green Lantern with your first pick. I have Catwoman Star Wars or As a Skywalker. Jomey has the last Airbender and Fantastic Four.

Well, just fantastic. Steve has Justice League and The Hobbit An Unexpected Journey and Van, you have two picks. Where are you going? Okay. So I'm going to pick one. I'll pick two movies that are more from my era. Okay.

The first one is a film that I was like physically mad at. Because the preceding film to this one was so good. it was the best of the three. And then this one put juggernaut as a regular size motherfucker. There we go.

There we go. I already know. God damn. This shit was terrible. So tough. I was just, I came in, I was like, yo, man,

what the fuck is going on? Mine is X3, the last stand. X-Men The Last Night, it's a terrible fucking movie. And I try to find ways that the film is redeemable. I really do another film that caused the studio to completely reboot. Okay, completely reboot. Okay, let's bring the young people in.

These motherfuckers are gone. We thought we'd never see him again. But, you know, they came back. They're like cockroaches. Those first X-Men, they never die. But I'm in the movie. I was telling Jomi about this. when I'm in a film that I don't like

or that I'm destined to not like, there's an internal timer inside of my head. I'm like, okay, it's 10 minutes of whack. We're at 15 minutes of whack. We're at 20 minutes of whack. The movie's got to pick up right now. And this movie got to about 35 or 40 minutes of whack, and I started digging my claws into the side.

I became Wolverine, into the side of the theater. Like, yo, what the fuck are they doing? Like, what is this? Like, what, there's so much going. on. There's so much happening in the movie and none of it is comic accurate. The characters that I know, they got, Colistow's got like super speed. I just don't know what like what's happening in the film. Like what's, why did they do this? Why is this happen? And it soured the entire X-Men trilogy for me. You guys know I'm not the biggest fan of the original X-Men movie.

X2 was so good to me, especially in theaters. And then after, I thought that they could really, really finish an amazing trilogy and they just fucked it. It was so whack to me. One of the wackest.

Yeah, once they had Kelsey Grammer in the whole beast makeup, I was like, we're not. There's just no saving this movie. This shit was terrible. This shit was bad. They did Angel bad too. no like no it's not there's one there's one on the board still that's way worse than this one actually

I think there are well I'm not gonna tip my picks but this one of the first movies I saw like when we first got cable and I was like oh man I love the X-man I've seen the animated show me I'm gonna rock with this bro even me again Jomi loves all this stuff I was like hey man it stinks this is bad just horrendous I went back I watched X2 X1 I was like Well, what the, how did they get here? It was awful. I don't know. It's wild to see when Hugh Jackman is Wolverine in a bad movie.

It also makes him bad in a weird way. Dude, I mean, like, I think Hugh Jackman, his portrayal of Wolverine is, like, going to go on the record. Like, you know, Tony Stark is just, like, one of the, like, great castics of our time. But, I mean, look, look, you can say about all you want about he's supposed to be 5-5 and Canadian and whatnot. in and whatnot. But there's a reason why Hugh Jackman played that role for 20 years and is still playing it because people fell in love with it and people, you know, identified with it. Like, we just love it.

Every single movie was a Wolverine movie because everybody wanted to come and see Wolverine. Like, that's just what it is, right? But at the end of the day, man, when you got to stab Jean Graney Chess after she became the Phoenix, off what? We're not resonating with that. We're not messing with that, bro. She murdered Xavier. Ripped the skin off his body.

She did he turn him to dust. Also, how do you make the Phoenix whack, bro? Like, how do you, like the Phoenix in that movie from the power to the design was whack? Yeah, unfortunate. All right, next pick. I had to pick a movie. This is tough.

This is tough. You know. You know people. You know people and meet people. And, you know, you know. there's a film that it's okay so you need a second

come on this is my man this is my guy this is my guy this is my guy all right so when Superman died back in the day

there was they brought Superman back and when they brought him back they gave us something at that time it was a black Superman okay his name was John Henry Irons

he was like a black Tony Stark that could build things, cool things that allowed him to be Superman. I thought this is a character I can see myself in. John Henry Irons, a lot of the whites, didn't know that John Henry,

the steel-driving man, is a part of black mythology. Okay? It's American Tall-Tale. So I was excited when this character was played by one Shaquille O'Neal in a movie called Steel. Shaq is a nice man,

love him, love his family. Okay? But this was the most unsurious film that's ever been made. Steele made a whopping $870,000 in its opening weekend. I thought you were about to say million and I was just like, wait, what? $870,000 in its opening weekend. The movie itself was fucking abhorrent. It's unwatchable.

It was one of these situations where we were like, yo, why are we doing this? And I was like 17 at the time. I was like, yo, man, there ain't no girls. We came to see Steele. We were looking around. It was just terribly whack, ridiculously bad,

unsirious. Richard Roundtree, Annabeth Gish, all of these people who were in the movie. You could tell that their souls were being crushed. It is, I was glad to see John Henry Irons come back on Superman and Lois because it's a very competent portrayal

of John Henry Irons. Suit doesn't look great. However, it's television. You're not going to get everything. This movie is one of the best. Shack looks like Robocop in this bitch. He looks like Robocop. It's terrible.

He had to shoot a free throw in the movie to win at the end. He had to hit the free throw. And they're doing meta commentary on Shack in the Steele movie. It's disgusting. All right. So this is going to be one of my wilder takes.

and Van's going to kill me for this. Steele, always been a whack character. Never liked Steele. Never fucked with them. Never. It was just like, no, I'm cool. I mean, I get it. I mean, it's kind of like your thing with black people.

Oh, what? I knew it was going there. No, man. I knew it was going there. But I could not, I could not have been more, I knew exactly what you're going to say. I knew exactly what it's going to say. Still shocked. I can't, it's your thing.

You know what I mean? You don't typically like the blackness, DA. Stop. I'm just choking. Yeah, still's not.

No, but like, yeah. Here's the thing, because he was all in the 90s. He was always like, next to Superman, but like his power was just like,

being a less cool Ironman. Like, dog, just give him the powers. Like, we already see Connor Kent run around there. Like, I don't know.

Steele has always just been whatever. This movie is whatever. I will ask this. If you could, if you had to cast, like, here's the thing, we are in the casting office.

And I'm, asking all of us, and you are forced to put Shaquille O'Neal in a modern supermovie, superhero movie, which superhero are you picking? Like you can, like you have to. As a superhero? Shekel O'Neil as Kingpin.

No. Look, I was so on board with the Michael Clark Duncan Kingpin, and I don't want to give away, I don't want to give a pick to anybody else. But I was so on board with the Michael Clark Duncan Kingpin, so on board. with it, like ridiculously

on board with it. I think Shaquille O'Neal could be because, I mean, look, it's not going to be great, but if you have to put him in one, I think he could be Kingpin. He could be, he could do Jay Jonah Jameson. That would be Jameson. Give him.

I mean, Juggernaut, I don't know. No, I'm making him, I'm making a bishop. I'm making him Bishop. I'm making him Bishop. Oh, no. I'm like, like, oh, like the dreads on my man. It's going to be. Shot. Big gun.

Yeah. No way. No way, man. That's gross. Bishop. All right. Who's next? All right. So, I have my third pick. I'm surprised that this is still on the board.

I wrote a piece about this on a great website called The Ringer. I talked to the writers of this movie. Wonderful couple. Just super knowledgeable. This is nothing against them. This is a movie that I loved as a kid before I grew taste. I had all the action figure. but this is one of the movies that like almost out of an entire generation on a character

I have to go Batman and Robin. It's gonna be my other pick. Mom! Here's the thing. I've watched it recently and I realized like as a kid like why I liked it. But nah, man, there's this movie is, it's a tough watchman. I feel it's a tough time. Sure.

I feel like I've grown to understand what Batman. and Robin is. I appreciate it. It's sometimes it's tough to appreciate, but I get like a real, and again, this isn't like a direct one-to-one comparison, but like the vibe that Batman and Robin's going for feels more

like the like campy Adam West 60s type of Batman, but like in a weird like modern take, which is odd, but like. Steve. Steve. It's, again, I play hockey with a diamond. I know.

It's kind of funny. It's kind of funny. I actually like that scene. That scene's terrible, but I like that scene. It's terrible, but like it's funny. It is hilarious. I don't know. It's not that bad.

Like Batman or Robin. Okay. Kind of. Steve, I saw this as a kid. I used to think I was just like, oh, Batman and Robin. This is sick. I just think that, like, you have to put it on the list in terms of like, if we're going to be real, the reason why we can't get any other flavor of Batman,

goes back to this movie. We're never going to get like a lighthearted Batman. No, we're never going to get sharp propellant back. Like, you know, yeah, we're going to... Do you know why? Do you know why you're not going to get it? Two reasons. One, Frank Miller.

All right. Sure. And then, like, another reason is his fucking parents were murdered. So, there's not a lot of fun to be had. You know what I mean? It's like, the dude is fucking insane. How about that? How about the guy dresses up?

Like, Adam West Batman, I love, right? But he was a well-adjusted motherfucker, and they never talk about his parents on there. Like, that was obviously too much for the, when Batman comes around now, we need to know why are you hanging out with a teenage boy in the dark. Like, we, like, we, like, we, I'm just not, okay, that's, wait a minute, I'm the first guy that said that. No, I'm just saying, we need to know why. And so, like, when we, because, like, I'm watching Batman begins, right? And I'm like, yo, bro, this dude could be doing some other shit, man. I know Gotham is fucked up, dog.

You could leave. You could go to, like, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? You could go. But sometimes Batman could be just like Earth a kit, like putting, you know, like, you know, gas bombs in women's hair. And it's funny. Like, it's fun.

Gas bombs and women's hair. What kind of crazy shit are you talking about? I do. I do. But I think we've moved past that era where we feel like that's okay. Jesus Christ. Steve, what the fuck are you on? So, Venn, you wouldn't want to see, like,

I've always wanted to see some of the coquier villains again. Like, I feel like you can do a Mr. Freeze. You could do a Poison Ivy. You could do a killer crock in a Batman movie instead of doing like the Joker for the fucking 9,000. Okay, so I get that. And I do agree with what you guys are saying on his face. And by the way, I felt like at times,

Batfleck played with this. At times, maybe more so in the Justice League, not necessarily Batman versus Superman where he wanted to kill Superman because he didn't trust him. He's just like, you're dead. He's just like, he had no real reason to want to kill Superman, but, you know, whatever.

But in the Justice League, I felt like he was a little bit more lighthearted. What's your superpower? I'm rich. You saw a different, I felt like Batfleck kind of was giving you a little bit less of the Christian Bell. type of situation in that movie, in that portrayal.

But I see what you guys are saying. This movie's bad, but it's fun bad. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't. I think it's fun bad. It doesn't, it doesn't bum you out, but it's a bad movie, though. It's not great. It's a bad movie, but if it's on, I'll put it in the background. Oh, I'll watch it.

Yeah. Yeah. So Batman and Robbins is my third pick. Jomi, where are you going next? You have your third. I'm going to get you guys, take us a story real quick. it's 2020, you know, just tough here for everybody.

You know, it's just, uh, we're all down in the dumps. In my house, it's Christmas day. Ooh. You know, I make a prime rib with some gravy mashed potatoes, you know, some,

some roasted veggies on the side. Me, my sister, who's finally come home after, uh, all this time, my brother, we sit down or like, guys, we're going to watch a movie today. I'm going to watch Wonder Woman 1984. And it was, it was one of the toughest experiences I've had in a long time. Let me just sit the stage, right?

So we're, it's not loading, first of all. You know, everybody's trying to get on and watch the movie. We finally get it to work, right? 45 minutes in the movie, we're like, hey, man, what's going on? What's happening? Right? Some time passes were like, oh, man. Movies got to be over by now.

Nope. Still an hour left in the film. Just one of the worst Super Hill movies we've seen in recent history. You're wilding. It's bad. It's not that bad. It's that bad.

Chris Pine is in another dude's body and Diane just dates that other dude. Yeah. Yeah, that is weird. That's so weird. Pedro Pascal Also Pedro Pascal He's in a different movie

He's in a different movie I loved him in that I genuinely loved that Because again He's just on another planet On another planet Kristen Whig I don't know who in the castig

I don't know who in the castigoff was like That's it That's our cheetah right there Yeah lock her in It's it's tough I'm like You know it's not cats But I'm looking at there

like that's the unused cat CGI that they use for Christian Wittes. Like it's bad, dude. It was like just horrific watch, man. Like I don't, I don't know what to tell you. Horrific, Jummy? It's dude, come on, man. It's bad, but it's not horrific. Come on, man.

Y'all spent it back ever since? Y'all watched it twice? No, well, no. No, obviously. Never watched it. Never again. Like, literally, it's, what is it? Like, two, something?

It feels like four hours. it legitimately goes on forever. And you're like, this movie not over? What are you doing on? I will say, I will say that like, it was a huge bummer

when we had the little screening of the movie that we had over here. We invited our neighbors from upstairs. The pandemic was still kind of going. We were still kind of in the house. You know what I mean? Yeah. We spun up.

We got together. Everybody had to take a COVID test so we could, so they could enter into the house, open all the doors of windows, a whole nine, and we're watching the movie. And niggas was like, this wasn't worth

put my life on the line. No shot. No shot. People were like, I don't know. Because think about it, at that time, you know, you want to go to Rosco's and get some takeout, that Rosco's had to be hidden. Because you didn't know whether or not

it was going to be a little coughity cough after you got your, you got your shit. So we were like, you know, Kalika was like, this wasn't worth it. I mean, we bought, we bought, what are those things that clean the air? We have a couple of those. Yeah, yeah, but we like, it's a different one, like a HV, not an HV, we have like a couple of those around the house. We've used it before.

You guys have been here. And we bought those from Amazon because we were inviting people over. And Kalika fell plate. She did. Buy Wonder Woman. Yeah, she felt late. She was like, all of this shit, but that goddamn shit. the fuck is going on.

It's a time where in life, nothing seemed like it was going right. It's true. It was a tough time. Bad, dude. More of a reflection of how bad 2020 was than anything else. Yeah, and I agree. Yeah. Wonder Woman 1984. Jomey's third pick. You have your last

two picks. Steve. Where are you going? Oh. There's so many movies on here that make me mad. I'm double-dipping into the Snyderverse and I'm going with Batman versus Superman. Okay. Damn, Steve. We need to have a discussion. We got an agenda to get off.

We need to have a discussion. No, we don't. We do. We do need to have a discussion. We really don't. About what, Joe. About what? I like it.

Hold on. Hold on. I've said it before. I watched it a couple of days ago. I like it. So here's the thing, Steve, Van, to your point, the movie that we saw in theaters, right? Not great. Steve, it's not great.

It's not good. You know, there are some enjoyable moments, but overall, not good. the ultimate edition and I'm pretty sure the movie actually makes sense. Yeah. It's the one that's taken off the Ramosan theaters.

The ultimate edition is the only one on that on HBO Max. Not the worst film I've ever seen. I've watched it a couple of times. It's enjoyable. It's not, I'm not going to say it's good, but it's not bad.

Charles, back me up. It's not bad me up. I don't think that like, in this turn of like, again, the Snyderverse and all of that stuff, like Batman v. Superman feels like genuinely mean-spirited towards the characters that it's talking about. Yes. And the world that it's in.

Whatever. Thumb drive about the Justice League aside. Like we got, we got Dars a piss in here. We got fucking like, why did you say that name? We got so many stupid and infuriating things. The entire Dunestay fight. The entire Dune's not great. But look, but I'll tell you.

Fine. One cool Batman fight scene. Great. No. Cool. Whatever. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I'll jump through this goddamn thing and hug you to death. I'll hold you. You got also a Batmobile. You got the cool Batman fight scene. Straight up murdering so many people. That's what he does in this one. Let it go. He's a serial murderer.

You got the Batmobile in here. You got the performance of Batfleck. You have a cool scene where you have a cool scene where Batfleck and Wonder Woman are having all kinds of sexual tension. Little bit bit. So bad. Little baby. You have a great scene.

You have a great scene. A legitimately great scene to me between Batman and Superman where Superman is coming off like a whack-ass bitch. You know what I mean? What are you going to do about the bad situation in Gotham? It's like maybe it's the Gotham City in me. But you have a bad history with freaks.

dressed like clowns. It's a good scene. Like good scene. And even though I don't like Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor, when I watched the movie back a couple of days ago because it's been on,

I watched it a couple of times. Actually, I watched it on the flight too. And then I watched it again when I came home. There's a weirdness about it that kind of works for me now. I don't know why it works now. But like, because I fucking hated it

before. And I've even said it on this pocket. but I can't say that it's a good movie, but I like it. I like the movie. I don't hate it, man. Charles, please go off on this movie. The Batman,

the Batman versus Superman fight when Batman, that was good stuff. No. Hell no. He throws a toilet on him. I like it. The fucking D.K.R. Clunky suit looks like CGI shit.

Looks terrible, bro. The story makes no sense. You're talking about the ultimate edition. That shit is like over three hours, bro. Hell no. every part of this movie is a travesty. I can't believe we're doing this. That's not true.

I don't agree. That's not true. There's some travesty. There's some travesty in there. Yeah. But, you know, and there's some. Bruce Wayne's murdering people. What are we doing here, folks?

Sometimes it happens. What are we doing? Sometimes it happens. That's the one thing Batman doesn't do. That is the one thing Batman just doesn't. That nigga killed a couple people before. Dude, that's seen in the shipyard, man. He's like 30 news to hell, bro.

He's like, and by the way, I like the fact he's not just he's not just killing them. He's not just killing them. He's angrily killing him. When that guy stabs Batman and Batman takes the knife on he's like,

bruh! Oh, bitch! What the fuck you stabbing me for? Batman's branding people and to the thing. Hold on a whole not. What the fuck is? I will say, to your guy's point,

Van and Jomi, the shipyard scene actually is like softening me a little because it is really good. So the shipyard scene is really good. Hold on. The shipyard is good. I got more scenes for you.

The Batman, the nightmare where he's a bat in a trench coat. No. No. No. That's terrible. That's terrible, bro. No.

No. No. No. No. No. So bad. Tell me, do you believe. A bat in a trich coat when a bat is in a trich coat and he's,

and they, and they kill his people. And then he fights the, fake people and he's down there with Superman and Superman drops and everybody kneels and then he lazes them with his with the heat vision it's some stuff in there to like

What are we doing, bro? The nightmare shit was the worst shit in that fucking movie. I mean, the Batman, I mean you kind of mention it, but the scene at the end with Batman is protecting a mom like that's a one. Like I don't know what to tell you. If he don't like that then you don't like. Are you joking?

Dog. And don't tell me because I know. Are you serious? No. Listen. That's the dumbest scene committed to comic book movies Of all time When he takes the crate It's doing the head and the dude's head explodes I can't do this with y'all I can't do this with you

I'm gonna watch it Look I'm not about to This is kind of like a reverse return of the king It's not like I'm about to sit here and act like It's the greatest movie that's ever been made But I like the movie I think I like it I think I like it.

I'm going to be honest with you. Come on, man. I could not agree less. I really, really couldn't. Back flex performance. Come on, man. Have some respect. I get so angry at the decisions made in that movie that it's insane that it's insane.

It's insane that this dude got his cut at the end of it. And to know that that nightmare was like affirmed in the Snyder cut was insane to me. Steve, I'm with you. Jared Leto like eating that fucking screen. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. There's even a 1% chance that he could turn on us.

There's even a 1% chance that he could turn on us. We have to take that as an absolute certainty. Come on. That was some real. Spitting. Real Donald Rumsfeld. Get the fuck out of here. Spinning.

I can't do this with y'all anymore. Steve, what is your fourth thing? I'm not locked in. That's what it is. All right. Do I go with something that's like known bad or completely forgotten to the history of time? Give us to Jordy Laforge pick. He kind of argued.

Joy, Laforge's. Okay. all right. All right. We all love Josh Brolin, right? Yeah. Oh, wow.

It's a good one. It's a good cut. It's a good one now. It's a good one. Yeah, but like, though I think the worst crime that a movie could be

is completely forgetable and bad and nobody talks about Jonah Hex ever again. Ooh. Yeah, that's it. It's like, it's like it didn't happen. It's genuinely like it didn't happen

when we had Josh Brolin and Megan Fox on the screen at probably some of the height of their powers, like arguably Josh Brolin now. but like I love a cowboy movie and I love a cool comic book ridiculous cowboy movie Jonah Hex like whatever the character not really that cool

in my opinion but like wow was this a bomb wow was this terrible Danny Houston also in this movie Danny Houston Michael Fastbender like a lot of people in this and woo this was a miss like

I still haven't seen this entire movie I've seen it in bits and clips on TNT and I'm just like like I'm never going to watch it. It's really, really bad. I have never seen this movie, but the reason I know everything about this movie is because there's a trailer to it. And I'm 99% sure it's got the song,

uh, Family Force Five, a Family Force Five song in the trailer. I think you, I think you might be right. Uh, it looks like a fake movie. If you were to see the trailer,

it looks like a movie that somebody watches in a movie to be like this movie. bad. That's what Jonah Hex is. Van? Did you watch all of Joan Hex? No. I'll watch the middle of it one time and I thought it was Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter when I was watching it. Surprisingly not a disaster. That movie is surprisingly not a disaster. That movie is actually good to me. Yeah. I like movies. I don't know though. I'm the Shea's Toronto. Like I like to be entertained by films.

Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. I like Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. It's so stupid. But it's good though It's dumb as fuck But it's so fun Nah I wasn't fucking with Jonah Hex when I watched it Plus I don't know anything about Jonah Hex From the comic books So I was kind of like

Not really kind of into it that much But I watched a little bit of it But it's a legendary Comic book movie blunder though So you have to understand You have to know Country Gentleman was the family For his five song

I can't believe I still remember that But I had nothing about the film I was like I'm not watching this Great song, though. Great song. You know what? Jonah Hacks, you've been redeemed. Great song.

All right. So, Jomey, you have one more pick? Where are you going? Oh, you know, there are a lot of things that I could go with here. I'm going with the film

that, you know, brought a couple together. It brought two people together, but divided everybody else. Talking about Daredevil, folks. Not that bad. Not that bad, Joe.

Not that bad movie Pretty good Well you didn't like Batman with Superman Tell me Daredevil's like that bad Come on now What's the reasoning here You know what I'm saying

Wait you don't like Colin Farrell's bullseye It's a little Colin Farrell's bullseye It's fun man It's pretty fun It's a little I mean honestly Like

The thing that gets me is Like I So I watched The show Daredevil on Netflix Right Like that was my first interest My first interest It's character right

I'm like okay I see what's going on oh this movie you know pan all right i'm gonna check it out like how bad could it be and after watching the first season of daredevil than watching that movie oh my god like just i i could not i could wrap my brain around how those two characters were even in the same league in the same in the same arena like it's it's bad you know like why does daredevil spell out his name with with fire like the dd he's blind like you can't see that top as hell i do just there's a lot that doesn't make sense.

You know, shout out to John Favreau. He's been playing, you know, the psychic for all these years now, you know, getting that bad, good for him.

But ultimately, this movie did not do it for me at all, at all. This is egregious. Daredouble's not that bad. Like, it has some moments, all right?

The moment where, where he sees Jennifer Garner's heartburn. He ceased. In the rain. That's pretty great. That was cool. You should put Electra. Electra was worse.

Electra is. Electra is. Electra is. Electra is worse, but this movie blows, though. Like, it is, like, I've never seen I've never seen it. I can't even speak on it. I can't speak on it.

Electra is unwatchable to me, but this movie is, this movie does. It does suck, though. Can I be real with you? It's like, I think that there is something to be said, because look, X-Men The Last Stand is bad,

but oddly watchable, and that's a movie that I, there's something to be said about, the fact that the movies, the bad superhero movies in the 2000s were less ambitious. And because they were, the films

maintain more watchability than the bad superhero movies now. The bad superhero movies now are often bad because they're trying to do too much. And that makes the movies harder to watch if you don't fuck what it is that they're doing. A lot of these movies that we're talking about

that are from this decade, they're bad, but for some reason you can still watch them. Like, Daredevil is bad. It is. Watchable, though. You can watch it, though. There are moments. There are moments in it where I'm just like, this is a bad movie, but this is dope.

Yeah, like you, you could watch it. Even X-Men The Last Day, a movie that I chose. I mean, that's a bad movie, but you can watch it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not like it's going to be, it's not like the last Skywalker would you just, rise to Skywalk, which you just cannot watch. You can't. You can't.

You know what I'm saying? And I used to ride for it. I used to say, not that bad. But I tried it again. You can't watch it. Okay? You can't watch it. You can't watch the movie.

And I'd be honest with you. Some of these other movies that come out, these recent Marvel movies. Dog, they're fucking, they're bad. They're hard to watch, dog. This is the perfect segue, because I'm mad at all of you. I'm mad at all you. We know full well, we've gone through this whole list. We only have two more picks.

And you want to tell me no one's picked an MCU movie? This is egregious. Okay? Because the MCU has some bad movies. Of the worst movies, go for it. Go for it. We got to pick Eternals. Like, I got to put it.

No, no, hell, man. No, man. Y'all ain't know. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. As a matter of fact, as a matter of fact, not only do I think Eternals isn't bad, I think it's aged well. I think. What? I don't know about that. How?

I think of the movies. I think Eternals has, is a, is a better watch right now than Thor Love and Thunder and almost as good to watch right now as multiverse of madness. I think, I don't think. So it trips, it trips over the bar

of other bad movies? I mean, first of all, there's no bar, nigga. We're talking, nobody liked the film. So the bar is in the fucking dirt. Okay? Like, what do you mean? No, Eternals, but here is egregious, man. I don't think Eternal is bad, bro. The only thing about the movie that I don't like,

is how we've been waiting for them to pay off the ending and like the ramifications of what that movie Yeah, that's the worst part. That's like the only thing of the movie I'm like, but that's the only victim to the fact that this is connected to an entire cinematic universe rather than like

if it's a movie on its own, whatever. But like the fact that a giant hand and face is coming out of the Atlantic Ocean and nobody's talk about it. Yeah, they did that shit on purpose. But what the fuck that got to do with the actual movie itself? First of all, the movie, the movie is far too long.

It is far too long. The flashback scenes are garbage. Like the flashback scenes are really just like, what are we doing here? Wait, you're telling me, you guys are defending the movie where one of our finest actors, Brian Tyree Henry, has to sell that a black man did fucking Hiroshima. That's what we're defending you. He cried. He was real sad about it.

No. He's sad, bro. This movie is terrible. He cried, bro. He was sad. It's not like, it's not like he'd be a young boy. He wouldn't fucking care about Hiroshima. Fuck him.

You know what I mean? Also, you guys are defending the movie, the weird movie, where Sprite, the child, has this weird romantic relationship with it. Like, it was just bad, bro. Hold on, hold on. The Sprite thing is a good point. It's a very good point. The Sprite being, Sprite is mad old, but, but the Sprite, the Sprite thing is a,

the Sprite thing is don't obey your thirst. You know what I'm saying? First thing. Do not. The Sprite thing is tough. That's tough. And I feel like maybe somebody should have like caught that. Should we be doing this?

Should we have Fasstos age are up or something? I should like should, you know, Sprite thing is tough. I'm a hater though. I hate Sprite. It's so funny when everybody's talking about how Festo's going to show up in Oppenheimer. That would be so funny, bro. So funny. That would be so funny.

That's hilarious. He's crying from all. That's hilarious. First of all, what we haven't discussed is why is Oppenheimer taking credit for something that a black man created? Why is Oppenheimer taking credit? Oppenheimer didn't do that. We did that. It's going to be an end credit scene.

Turns out that Oppenheimer couldn't get the bomb done. Go turn around. It's going to be Albert Einstein in one quarter and then Fasthos in the other. I got you.

Bro, what if Fasthos is Albert Einstein? And like he's just and like Albert Albert, I can't get it

and then all of a sudden he helps him, right? And then when Albert asks away, he fucking turns into Fasthos

and it's like ha ha ha ha. But then he cries. He cried. Oh, God. Let me talk to Fassos real quick. There's no tears that can make up for what happened in Japan.

You got a ride with that, bro. I don't know if you're soon. First of all, you're going to poison yourself. It's fucking fallout everywhere. Like, you've got to ride with that. That's the kind of thing you can't cry. You got, oh, well, they use it wrong. You can't cry, bro.

They killed hundreds of thousands of people. All right. And now, guess what we have to worry about? Every six weeks, North Korea. Because of you fastos. You're fucking idiot. All right. You can't cry.

You didn't think nobody told Fassos. By the way, I was just blame Fassos. I blame all the Eternals. Nobody told Fassos that wasn't a good idea. If you came to me right now. They weren't talking, remember? They had all, like, they all spread out. Charles, if you came to me, relax.

You came to me right now. Oh, that did spread out. That's very true. If you came to me right now and you were like, man, I got a good idea. I'd be like, what is that, Charles? He's like, yo, I got this almond. And then if you drop it,

in a cup of water, blow up all of North America. I'll like Charles, don't do that. He'd be the one. Why do I got to be the one with the fucking destructive almond? That is true. Haven't said that, I still like this movie. I know we're going long, but what other Marvel movies would be in it to you then? Charles.

Thor the Dark World. Yeah. Iron Man 2 and 3. Have some. Get out of here with that. Have some respect. Get out of here with it. Iron Man 3 are terrible, guys.

You're just trying to be popular. You're trying to be popular. No, no, no, no. First Captain America. Terrible. Shut up, for real. Also, if we're going to be real, that first MCU Hulk wasn't all that. It's not in the worst category.

It's all right. Come on, John. I think I'll take the movie. I mean, it's not the best. I think the Eric Banner Hulk could have almost made this list. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Wait, the Englea joint? Yes. Ang Lee joint, yeah. I thought, I think that could have almost made this list. But the Hulk is just like a regular movie. It's not good or bad. Iron Man 2 is just, regular to me. Iron Man 3 is good.

It's a good movie. It's a good movie. The racist one with the Mandarin in it, that's the one y'all like? Tough. Hey, how hell to the king, baby? You know that this is something that you do? You try to like, you take

one part of the movie and then, bro, you're so good at this. And then you make us responsible for shit that did, oh, Sprite was like fucking kid in the movie? Stop. We didn't write this shit. All right, what's next? Is the draft finish? Are we over? No, you only have you had one more pick.

I know I'm being hard on trilogies, but I have to do this. I got to put Spider-Man 3 on this list. No. I don't care. Oh, come on. Are you sure about that? I don't care. It's not even the worst Spider-Man movie. Yeah. Yeah. Let me tell you why I got to put Spider-Man three on this list.

Okay. The movies mean something. Spider-Man 3, I'm putting on this list because it's not the worst Spider-Man movie. Amazing Spider-Man 2 is the worst Spider-Man movie. Okay? Very true. That's for sure.

But my movies have stakes. This movie ended the Spider-Man Sam Ramey run. They were going to do a fourth. And because they put Tofer Grace as Venom, damn. they could no longer do it. Okay. Now, you guys,

Spider-Man 3, it's not about the overall quality of the movie, because what I would say is the film is probably as good, like, as Eternals or some of these other films that I've kind of like caped for, but the lows here guys are so low. The low. Give me some lows, man.

Give me some love. Steve, really? Low. It's low. it's honestly you like it see no hold on no there's one part there's one part there's one part it's when we talk about charles and his hater energy if you want hater energy a man goes to church to pray to jesus christ to kill peter parker's greatest moment i respect that that's amazing that's real hate that's real hey praying to jesus that he dies lord get rid of my ops that's real

that's real. Also, you hate the part where, like, is that the movie where, like, the next door neighbor has the cookies and Peter's, like, being a dick the whole time? I'm like, dog, like, can you be nice to the cookie one? No, that's two.

That's two. That's two. That's two. No, no, no. No, no. It's three. To Van's point, though, there is that scene,

everybody has seen I'm talking about where he's dancing to James Brown in his streets, doing his thing, you know, gawking at the women, being all nasty like, like, that's not, that's probably like one of the worst scenes

of Super Hero history like we just have to dig on this get on it like no man he got the suit on he doing a little dance that's one of the worst thing and he becomes abusive and all kinds of you know what I mean

that's bad that's bad that's bad it's tough it's tough it's tough but look I get it it would be my weekly but I had to put it in there because I was also incredibly disappointed in the theater with that and we're not even talking about the scene between Harry

and Mary Jane when they have like the little sing-off, they're doing the twist. There's some, there's some, there's some, decisions that are made in this movie

that are pretty bad. Can't remember how to make an honor. What is Harry? What is that pie? How's that pie? It's so good. Jesus Christ. This can't be,

this movie is not. No, this movie is terrible. What am I? It's not great. But the thing is, the problem with this one is like, there's a basic Spider-Man,

too, which me and my boy, we saw that in the theater. We skipped like, I don't know we skipped class, but we never left school to go watch it at the movies. And we, like, we know comics. We know that Gwen Stacy was going to die when we see the outfit. We spend the whole movie laughing.

She's like, man, I can't go to, can't wait to go to London. We're like, yeah, right? It was funny. Then her neck fucking snaps. And we were like, comedy. Bad movie. Stuff. Terrible movie.

All right. All right. So really quick, let's just go through all our picks. Van, you had Green Lantern, X-Man, The Last Stan, Steel, Spider-E, Man 3. Charles, I had Catwoman, Star Wars, the Rise of Skywalker, Batman and Robin, Eternals, Jomey had The Last Airbender, Fantastic War, Wonder Woman, 1984, Daredevil, and Steve had Justice League, The Hobbit, Batman versus Superman, Jonah X.

I don't know why it was so fun to talk about things that are bad, but I think that if people are thinking, hey, the Midnight Boys are being negative here, it's not true. Talking about things that didn't work, to me, is important because most of the people that made these movies are good filmmakers and good creatives. But sometimes the gents is getting away and it helps you, you know, there's no good without the bad. There's no light without the dark. You know, you need the dark side.

You need bad movies. I mean, you do. We do. Also, we were defending a lot of these movies. We are not in agreeance on a lot of these movies. Well, hey, you know, I have fun. It's very fun. If you don't remember history, you're doomed to repeat it.

Lucky. That's not like something that Fasdose would say. But like, oh. We should do a whole. I mean, Todd on Fasthos, bro. Just 90 minutes.

Ophanheimer part two. 90 minutes on Fastos. The Fasthos Oppenheimer thing is hilarious. So funny. Br, bro, Charles is right. Charles is swaying me. Like,

Fastos invented the nuclear, I kind of, why did I let that slide? So here's this. It's bad, right? It's so bad because they don't explain it. They're just like, he invented,

I think what happened was he tried to invent nuclear power, right? And then, like, they took it to the nth degree or something. But even in the movie, like, the context is so bad. It's like, yeah, man, all these people died. I'm crying.

Boo-hoo. It's like, excuse me. Here's the thing. George Washington Carver was right there. They could have been like, yo, fastos created peanut butter. And we all would have been like, oh, man, that's great. That's something really dope. You know?

Everybody loves that. Rave for the Bob. So that's all. Oh, man. All right. So last week, we had our first induction ceremony in the Midnight Meter 12 Hall of Fame, which is a special. The Midnight Boys give for any movie we consider to be a game changer.

After a heated debate, our inaugural class is as such, The Dark Night, The Empire Strikes Back, Spider-Verse, Winter Soldier, Infinity War slash end game, Superman Avengers, Return of the King, The Matrix, Batman, Spider-Man 2. Now, at episodes end, we had four movies that we had the fans vote on in terms of what is going to get into the Hall of Fame. Jomey, can you tell the listeners which ones they voted in. So the films that were voted in were The Incredibles and

Logan. Blade did not make it. And John Wick technically did get more than 50% of the vote, but we have to come back and discuss if that movie deserves to be in the midnight meter hall of him. Can we go really quick? Can we just

clear out for Blade? Because the votes on that were so disrespectful. Tough. And I'm a little hurt. Like, I'm a little bit like really like blade isn't going to get in like one of one of the most successful superhero movies of its generation doesn't get in like what are we doing here did not let it slide uh it meets all the criteria blade does disrespectful yeah didn't make a hundred million dollars that's where lord please kill peter parker that's what the line is that's what we're doing right now that's where the line is i'm saying i'm saying bro

It's like, you know, now that I think about it, to me, the 12 has to be like a banger, right? This is not the hall of movies that we love. This is the hall of gang-changing films. There's an argument. It wasn't it? I guess you could say it was. And it made $131 million. It made $131 million in 1998.

Worldwide. Domestically, look at the domestic numbers. You know how I know this? Let me tell you how I know this. I know this because I thought so too. And then I watched Wesley Snipes on Howard Stern. And Howard Stern goes, I know this movie is going to be a big $100 million thing. And Wesley Snipes goes, actually not domestic.

Domestic they didn't. If you go back and you look at domestic, I bet you it did make 100 million domestic. What did it make? Let me see. Let me research this. Now Wesley knows his numbers. Oh, wow. Jesus Christ.

You bet I'll take that back. Jesus Christ. That was number one, the best Steve joke I've ever heard before my life and deeply, deeply disturbing to me, Steve. Oh, my God. On fire with that when you bite your tongue talking about Wesley. Like, tax man over here. This is a tax joke.

If I'm getting this correct, all-time domestic box office, 70. Not bad. 70? That doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, domestic. And this was a different time. This is a different time for superhero. It was a different time for superhero movies. And I think that's the best thing.

I think, oh, how about this? Do this. Adjust Blades gross for inflation. Adjust the gross for inflation. If you adjust the gross for inflation, it's 100 million. Look, everybody that's saying Blade deserves to be in. I think Blade is nearly a perfect movie.

I mean, the sword fight at the end with Deacon Frost is not the greatest, but I think it's a nearly perfect movie. and also I think the movie is very important so having said that I can see the argument for Blay being a 12 seriously but when I look at kind of these films and we're talking about like 12 being perfect

I personally would air to Blay being an 11 I would air it to the side of an 11th but that's just me you know what I mean what else do we have is that is that it or I mean so just I mean John went get in or not, I think we have to have a larger conversation, but it's... Y'all know how I feel.

The way I determined fandom is different than a way y'all determine. Tell us the way you determine fandom, Charles. So, fandom to me is essentially like, is this world big enough to sustain, um, multimedia properties when we're talking about multiple films, video games, TV, adaptations, not just that? Is there fandom around it? Do people dress up as this character? Has it entered the cultural consciousness? Does this go past just a regular movie experience? Like, let's look at a movie like Tar. Tar is obviously not fandom. Tar is a great, great movie, but it's not. John Wick is damn near a superhero at this point. Kung Fu movies are fandom to me, because, like, you, people watch

Kung Fu movies, you can have talks about the fights, whatever. Gunfoo, all of that shit, John Wick basically being a superhero by the fourth one, it's fandom to me. To me, I think because we're such in a superhero landscape, we think of fandom having to be like DC and Marvel and maybe Star Wars. And I'm like, no, Star Trek was fandom, Lord of the Rings's fandom, Indiana Jones, Blinda the Yates, all Jurassic Park. I think I said that, all fandom to me.

They all have fandoms. To me, fandom is nerd content. I wouldn't have considered John Wick to be nerd content. And I also think that there's a difference between legacy IP and fandom. For example, I wouldn't say that James Bond is fandom. I would say that that's a legacy IP character, meaning that's a character that the studio owns and is owned for a long time and has done a lot of movies with,

that they're always going to bring it back. It's a legacy IP character. I would also say that Planet Apes, legacy IP stuff. Back in the day, like studio made a bunch of stuff, they're always going to do more iterations, but it's not quite fandom in the way that Star Wars is or in the way that some of these other things that we're talking about, that really have inspired a subculture of groups of people

that are connected by their love for this one thing, right? And that's what I would say fandom is, like people that are connected by their love for this one thing. Star Trek definitely has that. Star Wars definitely has that. The MCU definitely has that. Some of these things that we're talking about, it just don't have it.

Even Terminator, legacy IP. They're always going to make more of them. Terminator? Nah, bra. Not really. Like, not really. And this is time traveling robots.

I mean, and this to me, last thing I'll say, and this is to me is what also separates the matrix from these things. Because almost immediately when the matrix came out, there was a culture

and a group of Matrix people that spent a lot of time trying to figure out the Matrix and doing all it is. And then they kept deepening the law to give more to those people. And that has endured.

But I don't think... I understand. I think this is subject to interpretation and everybody can look at it differently. But I don't think some of these things kind of meet that threshold. But Jonny my dad. I think for me, it's more of

you know, like, for John Wick, for example, right? Are people like John Wick fans the way people are like Star Wars fans? You know, like, people go to see Star Wars for Star Wars, you know, versus like, I'll see John Wick because it's a good movie. And I know that like they, the quality and stuff. So like, MC movie, gonna go see, got to go see it because I'm an MCU fan versus seeing a movie because, oh, man, like, it's Marvel, you know, good movies, things like that. You know, it's, it's, are you just going to see a movie because it's got your favorite, you know,

you know, favorite culture in it, favorite characters in it, you know what I mean? And yeah, I don't think John Wick hits that, which is, for just,

because it's good movie. So then I'll, I'll ask you this then. But was Game of Thrones fandom before the TV show? So, I'll tell you, so this is the thing about Game of Thrones. I'm,

I'm with my boy Christian. And it's maybe like, 2008 or 2009, might be early 2010. And me and Christian went to see Inception. So whenever the movie Inception came out, Christian was a director in the company that we had back in the day interview.

And I'm with Christian and we're going to see the move, we're going to see Inception. And we're somewhere in Christian and like something's up. It's like Game of Thrones is coming to HBO. And he loses his fucking mind. Like he loses his mind.

Like he goes fucking nuts. And I had no idea what Game of Thrones was. right and then what he showed me was that there was a worldwide game of thrones audience that just hadn't seen it that that expanded when the books came like a worldwide group of people who had read the shit out of these books that's almost like asking the question was lord of the rings fandom before the movies came out yeah i mean kind of you know what i'm saying but but like these people were literally connected by their love for this one thing.

And I wasn't aware of them. Then the show came out and there even more people were. You know? So I don't know. I guess. So I was going to say it was fandom. It's obviously gotten bigger, but I think,

to your definition, there's a reason that Jurassic Park movies make a billion dollars because there are people who dress up as these characters like know this world, know the lore. Same thing with Terminator. There are Terminator people.

And I think that we're, I don't want to be like too like myopic about being like, well, in America, I'm just like, a lot of these monies make the bulk of their, like make the bulk of their gross overseas where the fandom is just as insane as anything else.

And I think making, holding stuff to be like, well, is it Star Wars? And I'm just like, the only thing that is Star Wars is Star Wars. And for you to me is even Star Wars. It's probably a better, there's probably a better argument for the Terminator, which I still don't think that it's, you know, it's had a lot of iterations and it's been around for a long time. And part of that is because they can't really find a story that they want to

tell. So all of the Terminator movies, so if we look at this just from a movie making standpoint, all of the Terminator movies that you're seeing, it's not really so much because people are actually demanding more Terminator movies is because they're not sure the way that they want to go, right? So if you look at it. at the Terminator movies, they're hoping that they can launch it again. The Sarah Chronicle, the Sarah Connor Chronicles, I really like that.

But with Terminator Salvation, they make one, and they're like, okay, this is the new thing that we're going to do, wasn't as well received enough for it to keep going. Terminator Genesis, okay, well, we're rebooting again. All right? We want to keep it going, but really it's not hitting like it should.

Terminator Dark Fate. All of those things are kind of things to where people are like, it's the studio trying to inject life back into their IP more than it's us because they don't know. Okay, so the lady, this lady is Sarah Connor, no, this lady is Sarah Connor. No, this lady is Sarah Connor. And we're going to, we don't know if we want to continue to put Arnold Schwarzenegger in them or not. It's the studio that's trying to like breathe life back into their IP more than anything. Now when it comes back down to

what were we just talking about? You brought up Game of Thrones. Not Game of Thrones. You just talked about it. Jurassic Park? Jurassic Park. Those movies are making money

because they're four quadrant films. It's not necessarily, like I don't go to see Jurassic Park because I want to know what's going to happen next to the story. The same thing happens in every single movie. Like the same thing happens

Same thing with Star Wars. What are we talking about? In every Jurassic Park story, I would say the same thing happens in the Star Wars films, right? But remember, I've read Star Wars books that take me to completely different planets where there are not a lot of human beings.

You have the Mandalorian. You have all kinds of stuff, right? There's a broader. In the Jurassic Park movie, it's, we're going to make some dinosaurs. The dinosaurs are going to get angry. They're going to escape. It's cool to watch.

But, like, if, it's like, I don't think that people even know Chris Pine's name, Chris Pine, know the name of Chris Evans' character from Jurassic Park. I don't think they, Chris Pratt. Pratt, damn it.

I don't even know if they know the name of that character, right? I don't even think they know the name. I don't think that that character's, hey, that guys, they're going to say the name of the actor or what's, what's Bryce Dallas Howard's name in the movie? couldn't tell you. I don't know.

I don't like these, I don't like them, those sequel movies. Doesn't mean there's not a fandom to it, though. Well, what I'm telling you is that it's, if you, if the characters don't have that type of gravitas, there's probably not a fandom to it. Because it's the people

that make those characters famous, right? So if they don't have it, there's probably not a fandom. That's all. But once again, it's just two different ways of looking at it. There's really no right answer. It just depends on how you look at the stuff.

All right. We'll agree and disagree. but we wanted to talk about it because in just in the same way that Midnight Boys don't totally agree on what fandom is. You guys were telling us what you think fandom is.

Right. You got your messages. Thank you. We enjoyed them. I think it's really funny that Charles is like, man, people dress up at these characters.

Who's dressing up like Owen Grady? Who is just a number like El Sattler? Charles. Have you ever gone to Comic Con? There's just another like Ian Malcolm. Like, ever. Like here's the thing. You guys are acting like,

Like, here's the thing. I'm not. I've gone to a lot of comic book conventions. Mulfockees are dressing up like Star Wars character, Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park characters I've never heard of. Like, it's just like fandom is so big. Yeah, it is. I've just never seen anyone dressed up like Jurassic Park character,

but I'm not saying people I haven't done it because I'm sure that somebody is on the picture is going to be, hey, look, it's me. I'm fucking Sam Neal from that. Bring it way back. You're going to get angry Jurassic Park and Terminator fans in here mentioned. like, how dare you?

A old guy. People have definitely dressed up like Terminator characters and it would be fucking stupid. Not for me to acknowledge that. Like, you're going to get an old white guy.

He's like, this is me. I'm fucking John Hammond. It's 1996 at... Spend no expense. At fucking Sandusky Comic Con. You know, whatever. All right.

We talked about it. That's it. We are out of here. Guys, so much fun to always doing the podcast and disagreeing with these stupid motherfuckers.

And let me tell you something else. That Fastos agenda, we got to talk about it. Keep reading it. That's fun. Bro, that's funny to me. Y'all forgot. Y'all, I forget. See, to me,

the eventual trajectory that the Midnight Boys are on is eventually we're going to make the trailer. We're going to make the trailer and Jomey is going to play fastos. Okay. Flying light on the actions. Eventually, we're going

to make the trailer. Eventually, we're going to We're going to make a trailer. We're going to shoot a couple of scenes. And we're going to put Jomey in there. And we're going to make our own trailer for an Oppenheimer with Fasdos in that bitch. That's where we're going. We're taking over everything. God damn.

All right. That is enough for us. That's a wrap. Follow us on socials, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, save. Jommies. This Friday, the House of R will be giving you their spring and summer hype meter. Interesting on the newest releases. I'm interested in that.

I'm hype. What did you guys say that you're hype? I'm hype. I'm hype. I don't know. We heard about what's happening with Echo. Oh, no. No, I don't know. Charles, man.

What? I didn't do it. Right. Charles. Yeah, it wasn't his decision, nigga. And next Wednesday, the Midnight Boys will be discussing some of the worst decisions in fandom. Credits.

Our producer is Steve, the architect, Almond. Jomey Adolph. dinner on hashtag Jomi and the Fantastic Five. It's on social. And additional production from Arjuna Romkapal, Charles. Please take us out. Eternal's was bad.

Hello Ring ofverse fans. I regret to inform you that due to the initiation of Deep Shaddle Protocol, this bit had to be edited out of the pod. I know. I'm just as disappointed as you are. Thanks as always for listening. And the Midnight Boys, Poo! Poo! We'll get back to

shortly. I said it was... Don't you. No, do not. You guys had me on the spot, I had to me. Say for the first time ever we had the deep shadow protocol. Just play a little bit of it at the top and then deep shadow protocol. I'll tell you what, this at the end of the credits, will be their explanation as to why.

Right. This is both credits, right? You guys put me on the spot, okay? I'm not in my best. I'm not in my best. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, no, no do that. You were at your best? Because it's not like it wasn't, that might have been the best one, but God damn, nigga.

Just, we can't do that. All right, kid.