The Ringer-Verse - ‘Tron: Ares’ and the IP Failures to Launch | Mint Edition

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Steve and Jomi jump back into the Grid to discuss ‘Tron: Ares.’ They share their thoughts on Disney’s latest attempt to reboot the neon-drenched franchise (spoilers included), its legacy, and whether the 'Tron' universe ever got the shot it truly deserved. Later on, they dive deep into Hollywood’s long history of “IP failures to launch,” revisiting the blockbuster hopefuls that never quite became franchises—from the 'Divergent' series to 'The Mummy' and everything in between. Intro (0:00)‘Tron: Ares’ review (5:33)The era of IP failures to launch (37:54)Outro (1:5:46) Hosts: Jomi Adeniran and Steve AhlmanProducer: Devon RenaldoAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up? It's Todd McShay, host of the McShay Show at The Ringer and Spotify. We're building this thing up and I couldn't be more excited to be back, talking college football and everything NFL draft with the most informed audience out there. That's you. My co-host, Steve Mention, I will be with you three times a week throughout the football season with all the latest news, analysis, and scouting intel from around the league. For even more insight, subscribe to my newsletter, the McShay report, to access my drafts, big boards, tape breakdowns, and other exclusive scouting content you can't get anywhere

else. It's going to be a great season. And I hope you'll be with us at the McShea show every step of the way. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimfaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein. every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections,

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Services not available in all areas. And welcome into the ringerverse, your nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. I'm Steve Allman. I'm Jimmy Dinner on. And welcome to Mint Edition, the once-and-a-while podcast about all the latest fandom that you just can't live without. me, how you doing, buddy? Doing great. It's raining today,

which normally would put like a damper on the vibes. You come in, it's all gray, it's all dark. But the Dodgers won last night, so I'm feeling great. Right. Now, what's important to note is that it's raining in the city of Los Angeles, which let's be clear, the city's not built for rain in any form or fashion. I got to be honest, though. My drive in wasn't

too bad. I thought it would take me nine hours to get here because obviously L.A. rain, but it wasn't too bad. Yeah, but the city's infrastructure crumbles at the moment of any dampness. Well, would people just forget how to drive and also, this is L.A. We don't, we like rain don't really happy here. People go like, oh my gosh,

what is this foreign substance falling from the blue skies? I need to act crazy. Right. But it's also like, oh, we didn't prepare our roofs for such a thing. No, why would we? Why? Why? It rains 13 days out of 365. Sometimes 365. But for the 13, you really got to prepare. You really got to be locked in.

You really do. It's great. We're going to be gathered here today to talk about Tron Aries, as well as some of the great IP failures to launch of the great past. So before we get to that, we're going to talk about some programming reminders. And if you want to hear more about programming reminders,

you can follow the Ringervverse. Where can you follow the Ringervverse, Jeremy? You can follow them on TikTok, especially on TikTok. We close to 50K, lock in, on Instagram, on Twitter, and on Facebook at Ringiverse. Make sure you follow so you get all the news

and memes from the Ringiverse family. Speaking of memes, I was curious, You're social media extraordinary. Jomey a dinner on. I do what I can. Like, you've had some great memes. You've hit a milly a couple times. You've got a lot of things that you're proud of.

I'm curious about the memes and posts that you're proud of that seem underappreciated. That seem underserved. I mean, you could argue that every single one that I make is underserved. Oh, okay. Thanks, algorithm. If I'm being really honest,

there's some stuff that I posted way back when, like, 2020, especially when I was on the NBA beat, that I can't wait to dig up again. You're just like, I was giving you gold and it was. It's not even that. Like, I would make a post or a tweet, like make a joke or say something and people would get so mad because in the moment, especially again, NBA. Like, I tweeted like so much stuff during the bubble and people get mad at me. And now looking back at it, like five years later, six years later, I'm like, y'all, I was right. And y'all try to get mad at me.

Can you remember any tweets? I know one for sure, but I'm saving that when I no longer work here. I'm saving that. I'm saving that one. Joe me's that guy where it's like, if you get to heaven and I'm not there, you've gone to hell. If you go to, if you go to heaven and I'm not there, that means y'all in hell. You have gone to hell. You have gone to hell.

Now, like, there's one in particular where I'm like, I can't wait to get this one off because y'all was in the mentions making jokes. And I was right. But I'm trying to be nice and I'm saying. I love this job. I love these people. I'm not going to do nothing crazy. All right. Well, when you follow the Ringerverse and you add us,

remember that Jomey always keeps receipts. Always. Always keeps receipts. So he's got a dossier on you. Check that out. Coming soon. Also, some programming reminders on the Ring of Verse feed and on the House of Our Feed, you're so inclined.

Today on the House of Our Feed, they are going to be giving you their assuredly massive look at the United States of Kingdom's trailer breakdown, answering your mailbag questions, doing the damn thing. You love House of R. Tomorrow, the Middut Boys are going to be giving you their greatest crashouts draft,

and boy, that's going to be a great time. As well as later this week, Button Match is going to be back, giving you a look at Pokemon Legends, Z to A, Majora's Mask 25th anniversary, a bunch of stuff. Tune in to Ben on the great ringerverse feed for that.

But today, again, we talked about it before, Tron Aries. So many movies came out today and we saw one of them this weekend. Dron Ares is back and we're here to talk about it and we're also going to be talking about a bit more of the underserved

failed to launch IPs of movies past that didn't exactly get off the runway, as it were. Kind of a look at the things that we didn't quite enjoy but like man this was certainly a time. It was a time. But for right now, spoilers for Tron Aries. If you

care to hear about that. And all the Tron movies. And Ultron lore and Ultron things and situations? Yeah, Ultron. Ultron's in Tron? Yes. I feel like that's a crossover that Disney. Listen.

Okay. What if Ultron goes into the grid? This is free. Among the many things that could have made this movie better, James Spader is one of them. Dude. See, this is what Water should have been. What if Ultron went into the grid? See, it's how we know we're cooking with gas.

Yeah. They wasn't locked in over there. We see the vision. Imagine Ultron going, beat for B with MCP and Sark and then Tron gotta go set. And nine inch nails is on the beat. I mean, come on, man.

It ain't not, it wasn't locked in, but it wasn't locked in. All right, here we go. Tron Aries. Directed by it's an incredible new feat that we've got a new Tron movie like 10 plus years

after the sequel, Tron Legacy, originally from Tron in the 80s. Now this is set in the present. New corporations are emerging and bringing programs into the real world that look a lot like Jared Leto and basically a new front for the military industrial complex

and a slightly more ethical genius billionaire CEO is here to make the world right and stop it all. Jomea Deneron, I first want to ask, how familiar are you with Tron One and Tron Legacy? What did you think of those movies and what did you think of this? I think I've set this on a pod before. My only familiarity up until recently with the Tron franchise, was the how it should have ended

Tron rap You don't know that one? I do not know this How it should have ended TronRet Wait is this in the YouTube era Where we had raps about Life Soccer's going to left It right

That's right Turn all my hovers into a flash a lie You think you better than me You think you take down The MCP will step up I'll take it down the size My name is Tron son You better recognize, recognize

Yeah Wanted fingers taking names Pointing Air Sucker Thinks has got more game program please and this joke is just bad and you've lost it in some like an overgrown iPad. Yeah like I've Jesus. That's right off the dope. First of all.

I know that song like word for war for bar not like you know obviously I didn't do right there but like I that's been in my head for like at least like 15 years at this point but then we're like we're going to cover chart areas so I'm like you know what I'm going to dive in I'm going to watch the movies. I'm going to be a consummate professional

I'm doing my job. I'm going to lock in an autotron lore before I watch on areas. I'm not going to say it was a mistake, but I will say that I did spend a lot of time being like, why? Why did I choose this for myself? I could have been anything. I could have been a doctor. I could have been a lawyer. Why am I here?

Right. This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife. I will say that I enjoyed some of the silliness of the first drawn, right? Because... The very first trial. The very first straw. The 82, I believe. Yes. Jeff Bridges going into this little digital world. It just had some, like, charm and some, like,

it wasn't very good, but it was like, man, this is, like, this is what y'all think of the features. This is, this is lovely. This is, like, I just, I just felt a certain, like, as much as I, like, didn't enjoy, like, sitting there for all that time. Yeah.

I mean, it's not that long, but still. I was just like, man, this is, this is, okay, I can, I'm not mad at this. I'm not upset. Tron Legacy. Shout out Garrett Helen. shout out Olivia Munn. Shout out to you remembering who Garrett Hudland is

because we remember that there was a white guy leading that movie, but I couldn't remember. I walked around the office. I was like, don't look it up. I'll give you $5 if you can name the actor who starred in Tron Legacy.

I tell you everybody's saying Charlie Hunnam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael Shee. You owe me $5 if you say Charlie Hunnam. Michael Shee was going crazy in that movie, you know what I mean? And so that movie was way. like I didn't enjoy that movie like at all.

That was two hours and five minutes. Not really, nah. Again, how Jeff Bridges, CGI, Jeff Bridges, is it abomination? I'm gonna, no, okay. Nah, come on. Finish up these thoughts because I, like, I want to let you talk

and then I want to talk about my relationship with this. You're telling me clue here. You was watching a clue on the screen. He was like, that's real, look at that. That looks great. That don't look like his face is melted? I'm going to let you finish. I'm going to let you finish.

And then I'm going to talk about how I, how I like these things. Daft punk was on the soundtrack. That was interesting. I, of course, love Daft Park, so I wasn't too bad about it. But frankly, the first two, if we're being completely and utterly honest, I don't understand how these movies, like, exist. Or they keep existing?

They keep coming back. I don't understand, like, how this is, like, a franchise. I guess people like the first trauma so much. It's not a great movie, guys. Somebody didn't even say it's a good movie. But the fact that y'all like that movie so much, that we're on attempt two of keeping this thing going is wild. It does feel wild, and I get that people don't get it.

You don't got to get it. There's nothing to get it. The movie's not good. What do you mean you don't get it? Okay. This is what I'll say. I have kind of been unashamedly, somewhat ashamedly, like kind of in love with Tron.

And I watched the first one when I was like maybe 10 or 12. and when I found out that Tron Legacy was happening, I was very excited, and Tron Legacy, directed by Joseph Kaczynski, you can easily see how very technically adept both of these first two movies are with not only special effects, but utilizing special effects in a way

that people hadn't actually seen before in movies. I don't know if you saw Tron Legacy in the theater. Did you get to see Tron Legacy in the theater? Okay, I did, and this was at the height of like the 3D craze. IMAX was popping. off. It was kind of revelatory post avatar for a

3D movie looking this good and to some people being boring but kind of actually having a few things to say about like real world allegories without getting into this. You can't even get the world jail. You lie. It's difficult. But what I'll say is that

in every single iteration of this franchise what I've liked about it the most is it is actually kind of a one for one interpretation about our idealism when it comes to technology. When we come to the first tron, the reason that it's kind of hokey and kind of weird is because us watching this in the present

whenever I was 10 or when we're watching it now, we're painfully aware about how computers work, about the internet and how we're connected to everything and how things are either disseminated via information or connecting people via all of these different systems that we're aware of. In the 80s, we didn't know any of that. That wasn't even part of the popular psychics.

It may as well have been magic. And when you make a movie like Tron, that's very much the idea of some creative being like, okay, the infinite possibilities of what computers can be. Let's imagine programs are people. Let's imagine that all of these little tiny things are running around, disseminating information and like the security programs or the viruses

or all these other things are like bad actors and all of these things. And it makes this sort of like Wizard of Oz-esque fish out of water worlds for Jeff Bridges to kind of like surround himself in. And the technology that was used in the 80s to make all of these things were actually not only like painstakingly like overkill for what it was made to look like, but revelatory and not really used ever again. Like every single frame of that movie was pooled over to make it look as. otherworldly as it possibly could. And for that, I've respected both legacy and the first one.

Hey man, I'm gonna hold your hand when I say this. We're so far apart, but you can't reach. You can respect it? Yes. That'll make it not butt cheeks. That's fine. But I'm enamored with how, with like the craft of making those first two movies.

I really am. I really, really am. And that's the thing that, like, is going to surpass any sort of post-good conversation that we're going to have with, like, whether or not that's, like, pure cinema. In that case, then, you could make the case that Tron Aries is also cinema.

I will not make that case. Well, yeah, but the movie looks good, and I'm sure a lot of people worked hard to make it look good. If there's going to be one thing you're going to say about this movie, doesn't look bad. It does not look bad.

It does not look bad. So if that's the, if we just, if that's how we're doing it, then you like Trump Ares. I, there are very few things that I like about this movie. I like this movie the least out of these three. And I certainly think that

in the evolution of what we are thinking about when it comes to technology, Tron Ares, like our attitude towards technology now, I'll speak for myself, is probably at its most cynical. It has nothing inherently good to say about AI or the use of technology in both the military or in our everyday lives. It seems like that it can permeate in all forms of our life and it will only destroy things. And while that's a very interesting point to make, you made a not great movie around it. and getting into the like meat and potatoes discussion

about what we thought about Tron Aries. I don't like this movie very much. I don't like this movie as a theater going experience or really on its technical merits a lot of the times because a lot of aspects about this movie

look worse than Tron Legacy. In my opinion. Would you agree? Not really. I mean, just like, Movie sucks. Like, there's not really much to say about it. Movie's not great.

And the worst part is, because, you know, we saw the movie, I think, what, last Monday, right? And other people I've seen it, and they had mixed to below mixed reviews about it. Mixed bad. And so, get there, and I'm like,

man, Jerry Lotto going to stink up the joint. That's going to be the worst part of the movie coming back. Guess what? Jerry Litto did suck, but he was not the worst. worst part of the movie, which is shocking to me. Worst part of the movie was the writing. I could not get behind some of the dialogue that was said in this film.

Yeah. Like, the movie's got some talented performers in it. It's got Greta Lee, Jody Turner Smith, Gillian Anderson. All people that could have easily been leading this movie but weren't. Right. It's got Calcestis. Yeah.

It's in there for like two scenes. Hey! Two scenes. But I'm like, is that, is that, is that, is that, is that Calcasters? There's some talented people that's movie. But every single word out of their mouth is, is, it's weird and somehow like stilted. It's stiff, is what I, is what I would say, call it. I don't, I just don't understand.

You're in this fantastical realm with technology and anything is possible. And everybody sounds, like, literally it sounds like they're reading off a chat, GPT generated scripts. that's what it sounds like to me. And like trying to, even trying to get into it when the movie does show you some cool stuff or does have a moment where you're like, oh, that's an interesting thought.

I thought the story was good. I could understand the beats they were going for. And I'm like, oh, if you would take in like a month or something to like really flesh out the script and give people realistic dialogue, I feel like we could have had a movie where, yeah, sure,

your leading actor is not the guy you want to be in that position at all. But I could like really concretely see the vision. In this iteration, as it currently exists, I'm like, yo, this needed to be in the lab for like a really long time. He should have been in the oven a little longer. That's ultimately where I sit to where it's like in the near decade plus that you've had to come up with another movie in this franchise. This is the best that you came up with.

That's ultimately the biggest disappointment that I could find. I find the Jared Leto of it all to be the most frustrating only because while he isn't the worst part of the movie he's certainly the worst symptom of the movie he seems to me, I called him like a charisma black hole where he like actually detracts from everybody that's around him and makes it feel

like people are trying to act towards his level of like nothing. And we've seen Greta Lee be great. We've seen all of these other. people be great in other things. And it seems like their personality and all of their charm have just been like just sucked out of them

for some reason in this movie. And I don't understand why. And occasionally when the film looks nice and it has either a compelling chase sequence or like a compelling or good visually looking heist sequence or something like that,

it doesn't have any personality to go with it. While it's competently directed, I liked the way that these prior two iterations of Tron were directed. Joseph Kaczynski had a great technical eye for how this world can look and how this world can be presented on screen, the way he moves that camera, the way that he can wield your eye to look at things

and push you through this world of the grid in a compelling way. A lot of this movie takes place in both the real world and the grid, and that's kind of the problem. We're here to see the grid. we're here at we're here to be in the world of the grid regardless of what it looks like you want to see people in cool power ranger suits and helmets throw discs at each other and light cycle battle am i wrong uh maybe i think the the whole point of the movie is to flip flip it on its head right every single movie you put the humans in the grid and they grid it up

and then they come back and it's like man the grid was crazy we should live there forever or never go over there again yeah this is supposed to be like no what if the grid came to us? Right? And they give you some grid action. Gradlely gets sucked up into the grid and has to come back, which I think is a, it's probably my favorite scene in the movie, right? See, like, maybe to your point is them being in the grid and 9-inch Dells is going crazy,

Trent Reader's going crazy. I'm like, oh, this is kind of hooping. Wow, oh, my gosh. And then they come out to grid and it sucks. So maybe you're right. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're right. I get why they get that.

But, like, you're right. The best part of the movie is when they're in the grid. Yeah. And here's the thing. It's a great distraction from the fact that the movie might not actually be that great. Because you have these beautiful things to look at and all that. Come on. Oh, the movie was never great.

In the grid after game. I understand that. That never movies never pop off. But the mere fact that you were watching Tron Legacy, 90% of that movie was in a beautifully rendered CGI, like, mega world. You don't think that was at all the more compelling than just like, oh, hey, we occasionally got to be outside. and have Hassan Minaj do a video game press conference.

Which I will say, small highlight, Hassan was having fun there. He was having fun. The fact that he was about to put the cowboy hat on, and then the girl was like, no, we're not doing the cowboy hat today. Those don't exist anymore. The rest of PC3, man. Yeah.

We used to have it all. But, nah, I mean, I just, I just fundamentally get why they did what they did. And so I'm not too mad at it. But there is a level of we're here for the grid. We want to see the grid. Yeah. Bringing the grid out. Like seeing them like construct the little thing at the end to fly over.

What was that, San Francisco, I guess. No, I mean, it was downtown Vancouver. Yeah, it was very much like, I've seen that in an episode of Sykes somewhere. That can't be like where you think. That's got to be. It's definitely Vancouver. Listen, Vancouver. Shout out all my homies in the BC.

Shout on my God Thomas Miller can get on the Vancouver Whitecaps. but I'm watching them fly that little thing over the town. I'm like, hey, man, we just, we, who, why? Why? What's going to? Okay, sure. I guess we're doing that now. You know, Jody Comer, Jody Comer Smith, I did it again.

Did it again, did it again. Did it again. Four years, four years of Killing Eve has done this to me. The fact that you stuck around for that long on killing Eve. So here's... You truly are one of God's strongest soldiers. Quick aside, quick aside. I binge the first season,

Killing Eve. Magnificent. Perfect. MasterPat. I can't wait to watch this live going into season two. Season two, okay. Interesting. Some choices I would have made, but not ideal, but we present.

Sure. Season three. Woo! Actual, actual crime. A struggle to finish. And you get there, you're like, man, I really, I don't know how we're going to. It can't get any worse than this.

I got two episodes in the season four and I said, you know what? I'm going to wait. Why do you do these things to yourself, show me? Why do you stick with this? And eventually I went back. Here's the thing. We do this for work.

We watch Tron Areas for work. We watch these things to give content to the people for money. But when you do this to yourself unprompted, you do that for free. Love it a game. It's just a simple love of the game, honestly. It's the thing. I'm lucky to be able to do this. I'm lucky to be able to watch.

these things to talk about these things. You guys got to remember, I was watching Asia a show day to day for seven years, right? It's not really about the money. It's not about anything. It's about sending a message. And so that's what I'm going to do. Every single time I'm going to get out there. Now, what philosopher said that, that great line that had a lot to contribute to society? Heath Ledger. Playing the Joker? I mean, who knows? Right. Yeah, no, who knows? He is a very storied career. Wonderful. Let's talk about some of the good. The A number one with a bullet, the soundtrack. Soundtrack was cool.

Shout on my guy, Tram Restor. You don't seem as enthused. Listen, man. I just, how do I put this nicely? You ever had, like, you ever been to a restaurant, and you had, like, a really good hors d'oeuvre. Like, hors d'oeuvre was, like, like, it wasn't even the best order you ever had,

but he was like, man, this is really good. Like, surprisingly, like, better than you expected. Yeah, it was like, okay, this is cool. Yeah. But the meal sucks. Like, the, like, the entree sucked. There was no disliked. and the surface was terrible.

And now you got to be like, everybody's like, hey man, how was the restaurant? And you got to be like, the adores was cool. Everything else was, was bad, bad. But the hors d'oeuvre's cool. The music is the hors d'oeuvres of Tronarius, right? Tret Reznor, Atticus Ross, hit, nine-ish nails. It was, it was interesting. I wasn't, when I'm like, thinking back, like, watching.

the movie, like, hearing what was going on. I'm like, okay, they was hooping. They was doing what they could. Everything else just didn't hit for me, so I can't really go there and say, man, they was going crazy, man. Oh, my gosh, this movie, this elevated the movie. It was not really much to elevate. No, it didn't because it actually made me realize how bad the movie actually was,

because every time that a great hook or a great moment in that soundtrack happened, I immediately think, oh, great, we're in for something really, really fun. and occasionally we were but for the most part I was like this belongs in a much better movie belongs in a much better movie I thought it did look good

when Jared letter goes into the Tron of 1982 but that's like a funny little like low let's again like low tech it's very much like basic I was like yes when they went B came out

yeah I'm like okay I like to throw back the callback I'm obviously seeing Jeff Bridges again is always nice. But when I think about good really, like, again, there was a couple scenes that I didn't like hate, but I'm like as a whole, I can't really. I can't really co-sign anything for real because it just all comes down. Yeah. Maybe I'm not being open-minded. Maybe I need to open my third eye and be a little bit more woke.

But I really left the movie going, hey man, we got to start putting terrible. on all this movie making equipment. It's gone too far. Now, you're coming from an environment where people are saying that the cost of podcast microphones are too low. And that we need a buyback program. That's Spotify.

You can play Spotify. Okay, all right. Hit Daniel Egg, don't hit me. Okay. I'm like, again, the Humboy is, he a producer on it, right? So we can give him some slack. Jerry Little, hey, man, hang it up, big dog.

It's not your time. It's not for you. You can tell that he was passionate about this project. Passionate. He wasn't passionate in the movie. Holy Steve. I know. But you got it made.

Look, and here's, and it sounded like, I understand. You're passionate about Depeche Mode. We know that. Depeche Mode. Shout out Depeche Mode. It's great music.

Depechemo makes some good music. Great music. Great music. I know you're supposed to be a robot. I know the whole point is that you are in AI. That can be robotic. But big dog. You can't be doing that.

Come on, man. That's, give some emotionality. Don't you like it when he turned human and his highlights came back in his hair? it's you like I would even if I said phoning it in it that would be a compliment yeah but no no jo-me joey me he was trying no this was him trying he locked in he can't this guy this guy's got an academy award and you're telling me that he went out there and it legitimately put his name on the on the fucking poster it legitimately felt like he's got the producer credit which you know was reading the lines it legitimately looks like he was like he was like he was like he looks like he was was reading the lines for the first time. Right?

Just like getting familiar with the scripts. It was bland, boring, dull, every single adjective that you want to use for making me want to follow a super here's the thing. Even if he was good, I wouldn't be too, you know, ready to praise him because I don't support that man

or his extracurriculars anyway. Again, right? All true. But the fact that we're talking about him like this, and at least to me, it's not the worst part of the movie. Sure. just speaks to how, like, far this thing is all, like, gone down.

Right. I feel like if you give the script, just way more time in the oven, and you cast anybody but Jeroletto, really, what's Garrett Hulet doing right now? Bring him back. Who cares? What's Calcas is doing? Maybe he could have been Ares. I mean, he could have been, but there was, like, no, actually, you get two scenes.

He got cut. He had to get cut. Did your theater get a little pop when he showed up on the screen? No. Did you go like, hey? I went like, oh snap. My theater was dead silent the entire time. There was some shoulder shaking when they were doing the heist.

Nah. That music was good. It was none of that, dog. It was, I'm not going to say one of the worst movie watching experiences in my life because we watched. We watched Morbius, but it's up there. I can't say that I outright hated this movie. But again, it's frustrating. because it's a property that I genuinely do love.

I think that's the difference between you and E. You love this property, so you're going to cut it a little bit of slack. You don't be like, man, they really gave it. I got no, like, real attachment to it. Sure. So I'm out here like, hey, like, this was whack. Don't stop. Stop.

Enough is enough is enough. You don't think at all that there's room in this world for people riding cool motorcycles that have lights in the back room that can chop a cop car in half. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no. They did it. I love the Tromb bikes is cool. Trombikes is cool.

The music in the back with a trombike, a little action sequence. When they were on the jet ski, and that was a great song. The jet ski, when they go, when they jump off of whatever, breaks the glass, they fly off, and then they go under the water, come back up. The music is cool. Again, it's an hors d'oeuvre. I'm like, okay, hopefully we start to get to it. Let's get into it. And it never gets going.

It just never gets going. it's a real shame it sucks it sucks but that's what it is it bums me out because it was a thing that I really liked and I was really really hoping that I can like stomach the Jared Letto of it all to have an enjoyable time

and I like barely enjoyed some of this again you mentioned there are because it's the thing it's like they're like little glimmers of personality when an actor like riffs off script and you can tell that it's off script

because it's fun and people are smiling and having a good time. It's like whenever, whenever Hassan does anything, whenever, what's our homeboy, who was with her in like the Alaskan, Arturo Castro. Yeah, Arturo Castro.

What was he doing? Hanging out. He was just there. I thought they had a whole thing. He was having a good time and like there's occasionally, he would have a quip or two where I'm just like, man, what if they had an adventure together?

What if her, him and Gretelie just like had a on-grid adventure? and like she made her own grid. And like there are so many possibilities from in my mind to where this goes. That could be fun, interesting, and worthwhile. And instead we go with like the bare bones, like nothing plot just to highlight Jared Letto

rather than have an actual like kind of ensemble type of situation because I enjoy occasionally enjoyed Evan Peters's manchild CEO character. just to like make it so that like him controlling Aries in the background is like the unwieldy AI program that CEOs can't actually control to know that like you killed your mom got your mom killed no he murdered her or no he didn't he inadvertently murdered her I'm listen listen listen I love my mother my mother is one of the most important people in my life but if you're AI baddie kills your mom

That's on me That's on you You got on that one I'm not blaming that on the ad I sold the bag Right Not to give Getting your mom killed

As being Selling the bag It's kind of nuts Jillian Anderson Love her She's doing what she can Uh huh She gotta be a better mother

She got to lock in She's kind of laying in Julian Anderson is a bad mom Terrible mom In this movie? Absolutely I don't know She was kind of like

She's trying Like, hey, you're being a bad son. She literally, she said, I'm taking control. Like, we're voting you out. Yeah. And then she died. Yeah, you're out of your jurisdiction, kid. Here's what I will say.

I agree with you. She could have done more early. Sure. That's the first thing that should have happened in the movie. Hey, but then we wouldn't have a film. Just like parenting, though, they do everything. Too little too late. Too little too late, mom.

So there's two things that she does, right? She slaps him, and then she takes over to cover. Deservidly slaps him. Yeah. Best part of the movie. Right. after the first bit. After the first bit...

That was crazy. That was freaked out. You just freaked out right there. You told me that wasn't cinema? That was freaked out. No, he was freaked out right there. He was slapped by Jim Harris. I make no apologies.

Come on, man. She should have let off with that. That's the first thing you should have did. And he was talking crazy. When the program was talking crazy, yeah, you didn't really like lead the company. And she was like, all this growth that happened. That's the first thing that you slap your son there.

Then afterwards, when he's out there like, hacking into the files. Now you man, be like, ah, you're going crazy. Yeah, yeah, we're going to get you. We're going to a little nuts. It's time it's, it's time to rally. But yeah, but this is like the third time you 3D printed a Super Soldier and just to get back this one little file, you're done.

How expensive is that 3D printing, by the way? That's got to be like a billion dollars every print. I'm sure it's like way more than that. But ultimately, I'm sitting there. I'm like, Jay Anderson, you could have, you could have done more. Well, we could have done more. This is a, that's a, this is a certain type of parenting. White people.

Thank you. I mean, it's British, rich people stuff. No, that's white people. No, no, no, no. Funny enough, she had a British accent and he did it. But, you know, she had a British accent, he did it. I mean, maybe, I guess. Honestly, at this point, the movie didn't care.

So why should I care? You know, that's kind of high feeling about at this point. Why should I? I'm out here doing all this work. I'm thinking about what you were saying, Steve. Oh man, what could this movie could have said about AI and advanced technology

but it really don't say nothing. Here's the thing though. Shooting it a little bit of avail. Honestly, I don't need it to say much about AI or anything. I don't need it to be poignant. I don't need it to be like So is it harder content?

Oh, you fucking don't. Okay. I'm going to take a breath. Was it not AI propaganda? I felt like the whole film was like look at the advancements we can make with AI. Let's watch. It's like, literally. It's a minimum apologist.

I would take a breath. call it at best apologist about AI because we just turned cyber Jared Leno into a real boy which by the way does that not erase the whole stakes of the Tron legacy being like oh no we can't

get clue into the real world knowing that he's just going to live for only 28 minutes and then get thrown right back into the grid right but did Olivia Wilde die after 28 minutes? Quora rest of peace no the permanent's code Steve you forgot about the permanent code now They got the permanent code now

They didn't have the permanent code in 2010, Steve That's different Maybe this is a self-report And I'm bullying myself for both liking Tron And not liking this Here's the whole thing, yeah, you can't And not hating it this movie enough Yeah, you can't be like, man,

Them first two Troms is crazy I would say that this is the worst of the three No, of course. Like by far? Easily. But the first two aren't cinematic masterpieces. No, far from that. But I'm happy with what those two movies do. I really am. I respect both of those first two movies.

I really, really do. I can't respect this. Hey, man. I can't. To know that this gave Gary Vee a sag card, no. No. Jesus Christ. I can't, I can't accept that.

God, damn. Did you see that? You saw Gary Vee in the... Gary Vee's in this movie, by the way. No. I don't know. Who is that? What?

Gary Vee? No, I don't know who did it is. Oh, he's like a... He's like a... Online guy. He's an online, like, like, I, like... I don't want to say grifter, grifter, but, like, he's one of those, like,

money motivational guys that you see on Instagram and whatever. What? He's in this movie. He's at, like, that tech demo that he's giving to all of these, like, heads of industry to be like, this is what Tron Ares can do. We could 3D print you a whole tank and go into any battlefield and we'll reprint you another.

Oh, he's one of those guys. And, like, he's there. And I'm like, man. Yeah, we... Tough. We lost. It's all of it. Legacy just put Daft Punk in the in the DJ booth.

That's it. That's all. That's all they did. Well, I'm pretty sure that 9-inch Nails was in this movie. Were they? They produced it. No, but I mean, like, they had like a cameos, yeah. They had a cameo?

Tram rest during Atticus Ross. They're the pilots. Yeah, the F-35 pilots. Oh, yes, they were. Yes, they were. That was neat when they like sliced the wings off the thing. That was cool. There was some cool.

Like I said, there's some. cool stuff in there, but like just the nastiness of the rest of it just didn't make for a good movie. Yeah, it's sad. It really is. Can't win them all. But, you know, we truly can't win them all. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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I wanted to make this segment because I kept thinking about the things that were either underserved or blockbusters that got that were like failures to launch. Because in like the mid to early 2000s and 2010s, in like a post-Marvel host Harry Potter IP era. People were mining for a lot of different types of IP that wanted to be made into blockbusters. Disney was like at the time very good at this because they made the likes of Pirates of the Caribbean

and stuff like that. Tron had also come out again, making a legacy sequel, of course. But it got me thinking about the things that didn't really get off the ground. And a lot of the movies that I'm going to be talking about are inherently bad. But a lot of these are off of ideas.

that we do like, or at least we do know. A lot of these movies are bad. They are bad. But I would think that a lot of these IPs do deserve good adaptations. And some of them have. But I'm curious to think about, like, are there anything that off of the list that I've given here that immediately don't come to mind? Is there anything in your mind that you're like, man, I wish this movie was good? Man, this could have been great.

So I'm not going to cake. for it, but RIPD is The Jeff Bridges, Ryan Reynolds vehicle, like buddy cop comedy fighting demons and stuff. That is in my wheelhouse. I'm supposed to love that movie.

That's made for Jomey. Somebody who loves the A team, who loves the losers, that's a movie that I'm supposed to go, like regardless, when that movie comes out, I'm supposed to sit there and go, I ride for RIPD, and I can't even do that. That's how

bad that movie was. Yeah. Based off a comic book, by the way. Yeah. That movie is legit. Like, of all the movies on this list. And this was before we ultimately got sick of Ryan Reynolds. Yeah.

Of all the movies on this list, it's probably the worst. The worst of the, oh, no, no. There's one, I'm right by this that is much worse. What, which one? Dragon Ball Evolution. All right, well, I mean, I guess, but like, I would, I want to put them all on the same level, but I would say that, I think the thing about Dragon Ball of all evolution that makes it like worse than all of them

that we're very familiar with how Goku and like all these characters are supposed to like exist in that world. The fact that they bastardize it so much even though we are extremely familiar with that universe is why it's so bad. R-R-R-PD

I'm sure look I'm not going to act like I was out there reading RIPD comics but I don't know were they flying off the shows like crazy maybe? Maybe not. I'm going to assume no because if they were we'd be like man Yeah. We should have more RIPD in the world.

What happened? Look at where we are right now. There's one that I didn't list here that I, there's a soft spot in my heart for that while ultimately not good, I do very much love these comics. And even at the attempt of this movie being made, I very much respected, not respected, but like, man, I wish I had fun with the idea of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Yeah, no, you need, see, and this is crazy from saying, coming to. for me. You got a lock-hand

it, though. Nah, explain this one. Okay. Have you read those comic books? No. They are genuinely fun. They're really, really good. I saw the first movie, the movie with the... Sean Connery? Yeah. And I was like, that was cool.

I didn't need... Oh, you did like it. I liked the movie. Right. But I was like, I don't need more. This is like pretty... This is pretty cool. No, no, I get that. But like, that movie was universally derided. Like, it was hated. Like, people were saying that was the worst. thing that Sean Connery's ever done. Like that was like, that's, that's damn near a zero on rotten

tomatoes if you look that up. Like, but, like, there's some novelty in that, like, you kind of enjoyed that. People hated that movie. I am thinking of the wrong movie. What are you thinking of? What's the one where, uh, he gets on the table? Kevin Bacon gets, not Kevin Bacon. What's his name?

What's they do from the lowdown? What's, uh, Ethan Hawke gets on the table? Ethan Hawke gets on the table. What? He does the, the poetry? What is that one? Huh? I'm so. What are you talking about? I just glitched that. What are you talking about right now? Ethan Hawk getting on a table doing poetry?

Deadport Society. Deadport Society. You must... I mistook the Oscar winning movie with Robin Williams. Because both those movies have a scene. With the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Because they both be in libraries, bro. They both be in libraries.

They be in libraries. I'm sorry I have to keep this. No, we absolutely have to keep this. You mistook, you're an extraordinary gentleman. I completely glitched out. Dead Poet Society. I completely and utterly just glitched out.

My brain totally. That was, wow. So you're saying that... I was like, yeah, I love, like, yeah. I'm thinking the Dead Poet Society. When Robin Williams was yelling at Dr. Jack and Mr. Hyde, that was pure cinema.

I'm thinking, I'm thinking Dead Point Society was cool. Why don't you like that boyce side? That movie's terrible. No, man. So that's where... Okay. So Dead Boy Society didn't need to see. No, it is not.

That's a movie I was thinking about. I'm like, yeah, I like that most idea. It didn't need a single. Legal shirt to Jerry gentlemen definitely does not need a sequel. We don't need more or that. That's a fun idea for a movie. Nah, it goes back to we have this movie under Green Lantern. When you poison the well that bad.

Right. There's no, there's no love for you. There's no, let me, let me counter with this. No, no. When you have tainted, like, it's kind of like there's a, there was a, In Mexico, I can't remember the exact manufacturer, but they had a car that was called the Nova. Okay.

Right. And they put, they market in Mexico, nobody bought it. Because in Spanish, Nova means no-go. Nova. Oh, Novot, no-go, yeah. And so you're not going to. The Chevy Nova, right? Nova means no-go.

Why would I buy a car that says no-go? Okay, so that's, but a product. That rule is the no-the-market. They did not understand the market. Exactly. But that's what I'm saying? So, like, why would- Now nobody's buying Chevys?

Nobody's, nobody's buying a-no- us because it don't know what? Nobody's buying League of Short gentlemen nobody's buying Green Lantern. Not anymore. After that, once you do that, it's over.

I think we can bring it back. I'm counting superhero IPs as different though because Green Lantern came out in a time when we were getting everything. Like this was this was like a pre, Green Lantern came out, Ryan Reynolds's Green Lantern came out in 2011.

Right. Okay. That was like Avengers level hype. We were just about to get the Avengers. And you don't think that D.C. needed to have something. They needed to have something, but the fact that we, not only have we not got it. But they're going to, like, they were going to keep turning. The fact that we haven't got another Greenlander movie since.

Yes. And not only it's coming to television, they're giving us John Stewart. Like, brother. And Hal Jordan. Yeah. And Al Jordan. But, come on, he's before. He's not making a half of that show.

You don't think, you don't think Coach Saylor is not going to do Hal Jordan justice? He's going to, no, he might, but he's not making it out of the show. Like, we're going to be like, hey, John, you. got it, it's all you. That's what I'm saying. The character of how Jordan has been cooked.

I get you. That's what I'm saying. Like, we can't say here and act like these things don't happen. No, no, no, you're absolutely right. I'm kind of hearkening back to a time that was like right before the absolute peak of superhero

hype came. And there was this era of like swashbuckling adventures that came after Pirates the Caribbean. And I'll tell you a great schlocky movie that's really bad that clearly falls

to this category starring Hugh Jackman, Van Helsing. Do you remember that movie? You're not taking this exercise. Yes, I am taking this seriously. Yes, I am taking this seriously. Nobody trying to see that.

Have you seen Van Helsing? Yes, I've seen Van Helsing. Okay, it's horrendous. Right. But, but there's a level of like, like when you watch this now, you're like, man, we don't make them like this anymore. There's a level of like, okay,

like big crazy costumes, an adventure in like the Siberian thing. Like everybody's wearing leather. Like you got like these bad CGI effects. But like do you get where I'm saying where I'm like you don't have like a swashbuckling adventure genre anymore? We don't have the types of things where it's all this one IP that we can probably find. Am I not getting through to you?

So you're right in this term. terms of we don't make like those movies we don't make anymore like there's just no room in the in the in the zeit guys for that kind of stuff and you do wish you had more like fun you know romps like that and i would counter with they did make movies like that way back when one of them was called van helsing and nobody liked it and so we don't make those anymore because nobody enjoyed it like that's kind of the thing we're talking about that's kind of thing we're getting to is that we used to make movies like that. People didn't like them.

And so we stopped making movies like that. And I'm saying we're making superhero movies now. Some people might not be liking them as much. I mean, people don't, I mean, there's a, I mean, we've had this conversation at knowledge about like the superhero landscape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the fatigue that came from it. By the way, gross 300.2 million worldwide.

Wow. For Van Helsing. That's Paul Thomas Anderson money. Yeah. Actually, not really. Not really. That's way more than Paul's now. Anderson Monday. That's way more.

But no, man, I just like, we're John Carter's on this list. John Carter of Mars. I think that's, that's probably, no, no. So this is the biggest, like, a failure to launch of a thing because this was like a monumental failure

on all fronts. Not only was it a bad investment financially, like they over-invested on this movie, wanting to make a franchise, wanting to make multiple blockbust movies. It failed horrendously at the box office and then that property

was never touched again. John Carter of Mars, a pretty beloved science fiction property that is kind of right to be adapted. And that's something that I was like, man, we were missing out on something that like if

that movie did hit, we'd be in a different landscape. I don't know if that kind of was the trajectory that like an Avatar franchise could have had. Do we make that sort of leap technology for science fiction book adaptations rather than original IP that was made by James Cameron. Are you following me? Not really, man.

I think the thing with Avatar that made like that made it, I mean, James Cameron, you know, took forever in a movie. Yeah. But he only wanted to make it on his terms in terms of like technology like you're saying, right? Yes. That's why it took forever to get away of water because it was like it wasn't going to look Because not only was that technology very new, but it was like in between movies,

it was actively being developed on... Right. During the movie's development. Right. That's why these things take forever, and that's why we're getting fired ash so soon after Wave Water, because we're finally at the part where the technology is caught up with James Cameron's vision, right?

John Carter, there was... That wasn't part of the problem. Sure. It's just the movie was just bad. Right? Avatar, whatever you want to say about the story or... anything about James Cameron. It works with the vision.

As simple as the story is, the vision sells the whole thing. Yes. You're sitting there, you're on Pandora. You're like, wow, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. I don't even care that, like, this is basically Pocahontas. I love it. Yeah. It's amazing. Wow. The John Carter

just sucked. It was just not good. Yeah. So even though you put all the money, you try all the new stuff, whatever, it just did it it cannot resonate with people not because the story didn't have anything to say but it was just just bad

do you have anything on this list or in your mind that was like damn I would have really loved to see a movie like this take off outside of RIPD because you weren't familiar with that property but like on paper that's built for you is there any property here that's crazy that it

it sucked I mean I've got like I think about like the losers in 2010 yeah but that's actually well, in your opinion, that's actually a very good movie. I mean, well, that's one of, well, yeah, because I love it. It's like person, like one of my top movies of all time. Movies like the 18, right?

William Neeson's 18. Actually, that's quite underrated. That's a pretty fun movie. Extremely underrated. We should have had 918 movies. Yeah. Right, you know. But people didn't go out and watch it,

and so we don't have it. So that's to you a failure to launch of a good movie, of a good adaptation of an IP, but you're just like, where the hell was this? That's what I'm saying, but I don't, and I think this is like the core difference. The movies can't be bad if you want to like see more of them.

Sure. They got to be good, right? There's stuff where you see like, oh man, that was cool. Like, again, Van Helsing was terrible. You're not trying to see more, more ass. It's not the club.

It's not, you're not on Twitter when Elon took over. You're not trying to see more ass, man. I got off right when Elon took over. Is it more? Is it worse on Twitter? You got to, every, like, what, like six, six months? You got to, you, like, refresh.

You got to, like, purge and, like, purge. Because you, you'll go, again, you open the app. It's on a for you page. And you're like, okay, ask. I'm not trying to see that. I'd be out here with my family on Twitter, report, or whatever. Yeah. And then every so often, you're like, I got to do that again.

Here's another. Linkin bio, stuff like that. Like, all the sex workers. Y'all keep doing your own thing. I ain't hating. It's just I got to open my phone out in public. You know what I'm saying? I got to check Twitter.

It's my job. Sure. So I can't be out here with all this ass. It's just my phone down. Right? But again, these movies, it's not Twitter. You're not supposed to see all this ass. Okay.

I don't want to see no more Van Helsing. I want to see no more. We don't want to see no more. We even talk about Divergent. Right. They're trying to rip off the Hunger Games scraps. But that was a trend that was like you couldn't ignore. Every single Y.A.

That has even remotely like the Hunger Games. Divergent. The maze runner. Yeah. We was going crazy trying to try to try to jock. The divergent series didn't even get to finish because they were going to make it a TV movie. Well, they were going to split. They were going to do the thing where they split the final into

the two parts. And then we're like, hey, actually, we're not rocking with this at all. Yeah. And neither is any of these actors. And they didn't sign up for a TV movie. So we're just leaving this on the fine. And so that, and that's what I'm saying where I'm like, listen,

I appreciate the effort I appreciate what people are trying to do here but ultimately what needs to happen is y'all got to make the content good

you just got to make the movies good for people to want more you can't sit here and make a RIPD we can't sit here and make the dark tower

we can't sit here and make the mummy you can't sit here and make hell boy I think Stephen King is in his own league because his adaptation will just keep coming out.

I know, but we're not okay, but it's something about like, man, we got to redo that Dark Tower movie. I bet you they'll try that again. Shout out, shout out my guy, Idris. I bet you that they'll try that again. I'm sure later. People love Dark Tower.

And like the movie, though. I know they didn't like the movie, but they'll try it again. I feel like you can, you might be able to get away with it if it's like a book. You can, you can try a book again. I don't know if.

But if it's like a remake of another movie and if it wasn't hitting. Because I'll make another case for this. I liked the, Robocop remake. Obviously Robocop 1, or the original Robocop To me that's like a masterpiece actually Like it's kind of a perfect movie.

The remake of Robocop Unassailably like Way better than it had any right to be And marginally successful But again nothing more. I mean like regular time is hooping on Amazon I wouldn't know because I love myself So I'm not gonna watch it. Is it? Is it hooping

on Amazon? Apparently we get messages from my guy and Will at all the time like yo watch a couple of wrigle of time Like brother because I love myself You know You're not rocking with Ava In this adaptation I ain't got to show to my girl

Roseman Pike The homie Gone girl Jack Reacher The first Jack Reacher The Tom Cruise Jack Reacher Rosevin Pike was in the first Jack Reacher

Oh my gosh Was Okay but here's the thing That's another movie That I ride for Okay that's the thing Okay I'm gonna both prove And unprove my point

Tom Cruise His mere presence Will get you a Cic I feel like that Like that's possible Well because the first one was cool The first one was good The first one was fine.

The first one, The first one was good? Yeah, Jack Richard never go back. Terrible. Okay. They should have never went back. They should have never went back. He was just trying to get

Give me back my son. Well, he was trying to audition Christopher McCory for Mission Impossible. That's fair. That is fair. That's what it was. And he did great for Mission Impossible.

He did wonders for Mission Impossible. But then again, I'm going to bring this back the single greatest act Hollywood hubris ever is a Tom Cruise project, The Mummy. You remember the Dark Universe. I remember the Dark Universe because I'm a big fan of the Brandon Fraser

Mummy movies. Those movies are not even my childhood. Just like, they're so indelible to me in a way that I can't really describe. And honestly, that's kind of, it's a testament to how great those Brendan Fraser movies were because of the fact that like the Mummy was supposed to be a horror movie. Originally, like in the 30s, 40s, everything until that Brendan Fraser movie, the character of the mummy is like, uh, like the scary, like ghost of centuries past.

Then they just made this into a Indiana Jones style adventure movie. And it's, it was awesome. People loved it. And then when Tom Cruise makes it, no, no, no, I'm bringing it back to, it's scary now. And she's going to like bring the curse back to London and all this stuff. They have my guy Nick going crazy, bro. Nuts. Do you remember when they accidentally made the track?

with like 30% of the sound. That was so funny. That was so great. That was so funny. But yeah, like, they really thought they had some. And to, their credit, when people did not like to mummy.

Right. I was like, get this the hell out of here. We're not doing this no more. Get Johnny Depp and Javier Bardem and Russell Crow out of here. Out of here. I, like, I'm not mad at, like,

when audiences go and go, we reject this. thing out of hand. Right. And the thing about studios are so, they listen, but they listen too well. Like, we talk about this with Disney and like, The Last Jedi and Rises Skywalker.

When they hear you, when we say, hey, we're not, we're not messing with this no more. Get this out of here. Studios go bet. Y'all don't want this? Y'all would never see it again. But then there's that weird influx of people that are like, where the Jared Lettos of the world where like they have just enough sway

and just enough influence to be like, we're going to make this thing again. And it's going to look like this. And I'm going to star in it. And we're going to have all of these things. And like those things still get done. You had never seen no Prince of Persia before. Or you haven't ever seen no Precious pressure again.

Yeah, because... Where Piss Pitch of Pursier. Steve? Man. Okay, here's the thing. Somebody got on my case in the comments. I can't remember who said it. But it's just like, Steve's basically saying,

man, if this movie was great, it would be so great. Yeah. And that's like... Kind of. Kind of. Kind of. It's pretty much it. And, like, there's a part of me that really thought the Prince of Persia could be good.

But, like, you're not going to get that with Jake Gyllenhaal, man. It's not. Come on. It's not, like, the reason why these movies didn't work, it's not because that fans did come out to go watch them. I mean, they didn't. There are some cases where that was the case. There are some cases. There's, again, 18.

Like, that's a movie that people, for the most part, enjoy it or even, like, really, really like. But the audience is going to watch it. the studios are like, hey, y'all don't want to go, you're not going to get you on a movie. Right? Matt Damon talks about this where he's like, back in the day,

we'd make a movie and it performed so-and-so in the box office, but they'd be people go by DVDs. Yeah. And they'd be like, oh my gosh, oh my God, it's a hit on DVD, we got to be making more.

We got to make more, right? That isn't exist for a lot. It's literally what brought family guy back from cancellation. Right. But we're looking at all of these movies, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2011, 2011, 2012.

We were still, we was just re-streaming. We were still doing this stuff. The reason these things didn't pop off was not because we didn't rob with them as an audience, but we didn't. But we didn't rock with them as an audience because they were bad. That's the difference. I think we talk about like, man, I wish we always going to get a Batman movie forever. We don't get a Batman movie, we've got a Batman show.

There's never not going to be any Batman in the universe ever because we love that character. Right? even if they get bad bad man, we're going to take a couple years off, and we're going to get right back to make a bad man. Yeah. Because people just love these characters. But it's also the fact that they've had some unassailable hits with that thing.

Like if there was one example of any of these properties that did even remotely what the Dark Knight did at its peak, we would still be seeing this. Right, but that moves great. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, right. So if it was good, it would be good. Is that what all podcasting is now?

If things were good, they would be so good. No, I don't think it's that. I just think that, like, we're in a time where, like, it's unfortunate that a lot of this stuff is so homogenized, very, we know what we're getting a lot of these things, and people aren't taking swings. But when you go back and look at some of the swings people took, and you got to understand, like, yeah, you should have done that.

Like, I get the thought process. I understand why you think that would work. but like it didn't. And so why then go back to that specific? Well, when not only would it be like difficult to just make something, difficult to make some good,

also you have to get that stink off the rest of the rest of the. And that's kind of what I wanted to like, kind of circle back to Tron here with this and we can end on that. But like, I, Tron is not a safe bet. No. It's not. No.

It's why it took so long. And it probably took a lot of meat. And like, I will give Jared Leto the smallest bit of credit because you can tell he's said this in interviews and he's done he's done this effusively on the press tour that he is passionate about Trump. And he wanted to get this project made. And a lot of creatives that don't have that level of sway or don't have that level of money probably would like to make a League of Extraordinary Gentleman or something else that like would speak to Joe me. What if somebody has the next great RIPD script or idea for a movie like that to be made, and they don't have that level of influence or sway or passion or anything that else that get, or they have the passion,

but they don't have that level of politicking that gets a project like that made. But the IP is there. And the swings that we took years past, yeah, there's a lot of failures and there's a lot of graveyards that are littered with IPs that didn't get going. But I kind of liked us to see what else could be having. because for the last decade plus, it's only been superheroes. That's been the thing

that's been taking up the most of the spotlight here. And I'm interested to see what's going to be the next thing and phased and trend that kind of gets us to swings like this. That's really,

that's really, really optimistic of you, Steve. Probably it borders on naivete. But I kind of liked it. I kind of liked the idea that we were taking these wild swings. I like the idea that the Van Helsings of the world can exist, regardless of how

quote unquote good they are, I have a place in my heart for them. I mean, I'm happy they exist, but I understand why they don't exist now. To cycle back to Tron, and this is like really tough, I think I'm like hinted at it earlier, but I think it needs to be said.

We, the only reason this movie exists, Tron Areas, is because people like the first Tron. It's kind of like the DVD sales if I was much earlier. People just like enjoy the first movie. They don't, it's not good, but they like it. Mm-hmm.

Right? And that's enough for studios to be like, okay, every 10 or so years, we'll try again. Yeah, but like there's also, but there's also the business argument. Like the producers and the people in those meetings that influence and politic for the movies that they want to get made. That's true. Like, I'm sure that Disney heard a lot more pitches about a Tron legacy sequel. after that. Okay.

And they probably said no. Yeah, because people don't like the movie, which goes back to my point, is that the movies are not good, therefore you cannot build. It's not like, not like sports where you can like,

a guy had a bad season or got had it back or a week and like, all right, well, next year you're going to get it back. You're going to get it back. They don't, there's too much money online. Yeah.

Like, it just doesn't, it doesn't work that way anymore. And so, again, we are literally only here because people have, fondness for that first 1982 Tron. They just liked it enough. Not good,

but they liked it enough. People saw something in there. There's like, let's try and build a universe out of that. And they've tried twice now. And it has it out of plan. I don't think

I'm not ready to say that Tron is like dead. But brother, it is a hospice. We are getting close. should we be saying our goodbyes we should just prepare for the inevitability of death for all of us

right but when you think about like who's going first on the list like who's up next on the the grim reapers chart Tron is close fluctuating yeah you got to check the heart

rate monitor it's not good grim but we had fun potting about it I had fun I'm glad you're here here. I'm glad you're here. I'm happy that we're doing this. And the lights

are on. We have lights. In the studio. It's nice to have lights. It's lights on the studio. Undisclosed location in Los Angeles. Raining. No leaks in the walls that we can find, but you know, the day is still young and rain will still persist. But we will still persist here on the Ring of Vers.

And don't forget that this week, House of Art is going to be giving you their long-awaited look at Night of the Seven Kingdoms with our trailer breakdown. Tomorrow, the Midnight of the Midnight boys are going to be giving you a great pod on Wednesday. And later, Button Match is going to return as well with their look. The 5th anniversary of Majora's Mask, along with Pokemon, and a bunch of other stuff.

Tune into that as well. Jomi, do you have any parting words for the people before we thank our great producer, Dev? Besides thanking our great producer, Dev, rest of the piece, DeAngelo, incredible music just hurts to wake up and see that. just one of like a pioneers of music. That's terrible. But other than that, no, man, great potter with you. Again, thank you, Deb.

Thank you, Arjuna. And we'll see you guys. Next time. What's the difference between butter and butter made from real California dairy? It's the real California farm families behind it. Real people. Real care. Real intention.

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