The Ringer-Verse - ‘VisionQuest’ Episodes 3-4 Instant Reactions | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: October 21, 2026

The Boys are back and they’re jumping into the next two episodes of ‘VisionQuest’. They discuss the Vision we knew from ‘Avengers’ versus the Vision we see in this show, rate the kid-pluck level so far, and have a lively debate about the MCU character ethics. (0:00) Intro (7:19) Spoilers ahead (9:56) ‘VisionQuest’ Episodes 3-4 instant reactions (1:19:25) Outro Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Devon Baroldi, and Jamie Yukich Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome into the Ringerverse. This is, of course, the ringer's Nexus podcast fee for all things, fandom. We are Steve, the architect, almond, the builder, and tinker of things. Jomi, the explainer at dinner on, you've got questions, he's got answers. Old man, Van, he of the receding resurgent,

hairline, Coke, baby Chuck, the 24-carric closer. Together we are known as And I'm at Midnight Boys We'll be right back after this Okay, files on socials You can see we're back in the studio Back here in Los Angeles We're back from New York

Charles just got back Charles, how you feeling Being back in L.A., man? Hey, man, you know, I'm glad to be back in L.A., but there's nothing like New York. Different energy. Different energy. Chuck's home.

All right, the Midnight Boys pot on Insta and TikTok at Ringervverse on Insta, Twitter. Facebook and TikTok. Right? We're on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boys

and House of our episode on YouTube. com backslash at Ringiverse and also on Spotify. Jummi, what's up with socials? Man, the social's going great, but I just, I don't want to speak for everybody, but shout us to everybody at New York Comic Con

who came to the panel, came to the meeting greet, came to the autograph signing, and just like saw us around the floor around the city, man. It was really cool to be able to hang with you guys in person, you know.

So much love. They showed love. They showed all types of love, man. It was crazy. I went on to the floor on Sunday, and, you know, you just be out there running around. I ran into countless fans, being like, oh, man, you know, even if they missed a panel because they had another thing going on, they were like, y'all, wish you would have been there. But it's so nice to be able to, like, you know, see you guys and hang out.

I was like, we have people listening to us from since high school and college. I was just like, damn. The kids. Midnight men. Midnight men. Programming reminders on Thursday, Budmast celebrates. GTA 3's 25th anniversary because I guess

the new GTA is coming out. When is it come out again? November. November for the new GTA. You excited? You guys excited? Super excited, man. Yeah.

You know, here's the thing. So with the GTA situation, there's no multiplayer on the GTA. Not yet. There will be. Well, even when GTA 5 came out, there was a multiplayer for a minute. So people are excited to just go through

the campaign mode of the game. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Interesting. I know people still got excited. I've never played a GTA game. I play a little bit of them. of them back in the day a little bit.

Can I buy this game and just jump in? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a brand new story. Yeah. But I can never, like, get into those games because there's too much stuff to distract me. Right. I mean, you play Red Dead, right?

Watching you play Spider-Man, you do not play Spider-Man how I play Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah. Like, you just get to strike. You'll just be, like, swinging. I'm like, go do the objective. My brother showed me that, like, you could get on GTA and just destroy stuff until the cops showed up. Yeah.

And then you could just bang it out with the cops. Yeah. Yeah. That's all I did. That's all I did. I mean, that is kind of the greatest part of the game. But you can also do that in the story mode too. Well, I know, but, okay, so you can do that in the story mode.

Yeah. But that's what I'm saying. In the story mode, I would do that and then I wouldn't complete the missions. All right. No point video game corner. I do have questions. A, they're saying the main character is a little bit on, on the spectrum. Is this?

What? Is this true? I did not hear this? No. It's a, it's a two. like you can play as two characters that may or may not be able to fall in love. One is an ex-army guy. Jason.

That's the guy. And then they're saying like a lot of women seem upset because it's just like, is it emotional cheating if you spend more time, which are in your in-game. Miami-Latina wife. It depends on how seriously you take it. If you're like, baby, it's supposed to be, you know, our night. We're supposed to go out and go bowling or whatever. Right. Now, baby.

I got to focus on Lucia, make sure she good. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's nuts, right? If you take, you know, put more time into your game life than your personal life,

that's what I'm saying. Probably. Probably. The game is famous for letting you have sex with the prostitutes and strippers, so it might as well. Also on Thursday. Sex and stuff. Also on Thursday, House of R is back with VisionQuest.

You got to check out their vision quest stuff. Deep, deep, deep show, a lot stuff. So they're going to do a lot of explaining there. On Friday, the Midnight Boys give their Clayface reactions. Charles, you think that Clayface is. is a particularly high-leverage production for DC. You think that... Man, I'm not even sure if I'm...

It's my birthday. I'm not even sure if I don't want to watch no fucking Clayface. Wow. You don't watch Body Hoarder on your birthday? No. Body Horror, man. You know, you are. You guys know I'm getting into horror.

Like, I don't really fuck with all that, like, new shit. What are you getting into for horror? Like, I'm just going back at watching the classics. I watched Nightmare and Em Street last night. Okay. Halloween? A banger, Exorcist. Great.

I've done Halloween before. Like, I like the old shit. It's when, like, the new shit, they just be doing too much. Why, what do you mean? How's so? What is it? Like, saw and, like, all that shit. So it's great.

I was the one where they went and they stayed in the whole hostel. Not hostile. Like, what's the one where they're shitting in each other's mouths? Oh, Human centipies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I watched that one. I can't be doing, like, that's too much, though. No, the thing was, for me, was like, not even the movie so much.

you know, if you've made a movie before, there are so many parts to get to actual shooting. And I always wonder how fucking sick you have to be to get to the point to where, let's say we had the idea of human centipede. Like, how do you pitch that? Well, they pitched it. They probably did it independent, right? But if you have the idea of human centipede

and then you're sitting down, actually getting to the point to where you're going to make that movie, there's a lot of thought. Yeah. And, like, legitimate work that has to go into making a movie about people sewn or attached to other people's assholes. Right. And it'll be serious conversations on the set. Also, you're spending what, like, two years of your life straight just thinking about this movie.

Yeah. Like, I can't. And they made two more. When I watched it, I was like, oh, okay. I kind of got it. Kind of got it. Yeah, kind of got it. Human centipede.

So directed by who? Tom 6 is this guy's name. Yes, I, X. Tom 6. Like actually, like, his name is his name. Tom 6. Tom 6 was born. Christian name.

I don't know if that's his, the name that he was born with, but he was, it says he. But why can't we go back to like... Centipede 1, Centipede 2, Centipede 3? Yeah. Wait, why can we just go back to like the 70s, 80s? Like, I like seeing like Freddie and Jason just running around. It's just a dude in the suit, like terrorizing. Lots of different types of horrid.

Yeah, yeah. So they got the body horror stuff. There's always been around the body horror stuff. Body horrors, that's the worst one, man. I don't body horror. Like, I watched the fly too young. Oh, I don't. Dude, the substance was tough, bro.

Substance was interesting as a concept. It's great. It was a great. Body horror is best when it has a compelling concept on the way to go with it. You know what I mean? So whatever. All right, look, that's enough of that. Enough of that bullshit.

Okay. This episode is brought to by Google Pixel. Whether you're at the game, your kid's party or a wedding, you want to Capture the moment, but you also want to stay present. So you should probably check out Google Pixel 11 Pro with just one tap, magic capture on Google Pixel 11 Pro. Captures both video and high quality photos, then finds the best ones. So you can get back to what's important.

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Not what you want to hear when a pipe dispersed and your basement is flooding. That's why Intact Insurance answers 2 million claim calls per year within 20 seconds. So instead of hearing this lovely track, you'll hear this in seconds. Hello, Intact Insurance. On today's episode, we react to episodes three and four of Vision Quest. as we continue to explore the Wanda Vision trilogy. Close the chapter. Close the book.

Closing the book. Will there be a new book? We don't fucking know, but we know Vision is in this. Hey, Brad, I wonder my mom already said. Save what hashtag save Darenobble. Hey, talk your shit. All right.

To do that, we have to spoil some things. We're going to get into a spoiler warning so you guys don't get mad, Steve. We're getting right. ready to talk about Vision Quest. You're listening to a reaction

podcast. The spoilers are coming. All right, to begin our reactions, we once again bring you the Midnight Manifest talking about all the need to know for Vision Quest episodes 3 and 4, Chuck, take it away. All right, this is your Midnight Manifest

for episodes 3 and 4 of Vision Quest, both directed by Gangesa and Montero. Reboot is rendered by Cindy. Apple malware is written by Michael Taylor. In reboot, Ultron follows the exploits of a serial killer named Butcherbird still trapped in Vision's mind prison. In the real world, Tommy races to save Vision's life as they're pursued by one of the Paladin's drones. Tommy and Vision make it to a hotel where the duo tried to make sense of the lies wanted to help create and destroy.

Tommy is afraid of pools. Vision is afraid of emotions. Nevertheless, Vision becomes the stepfather who steps up, pushing Tommy to take control with his speed powers and reboot his system. Meanwhile, Paladin's drones take him on the trail of another synth, aka the Butcher Bird. Paladin is dispatched by Butcherbird and later his handler, while the serial killer interrupts Jarvis' funeral to fuck with Vision. In malware, the Butcherbird killer infiltrates Vision system and threatens his growing family. Vision and the team decide to track down the killer by hacking Inter-Intipose database.

They find the killer is targeting founders of an old AI company bought by Stark Industries or responsible for building the base technology that created Ultronin Vision and their ilk. Vision Tommy and Lisa infiltrated a gala to protect Katerina Wells, the sooner be victim of the bitch of bird killer. It's here that Tommy realizes the vision lies to him and is working with Ultron. The night takes a turn when the killer arrives and reveals herself to be Jakasta, a synth based off the deceased mind of Dr. Josephine Carrington. Vision tries to take Chocasta down, but she gets the better of him.

At his wit's end, vision allows Ultron to take over his body. From there, the evil robot kills Josephine before turning his sights on grandson Tommy and Tricasta. That has been your very long midnight manifest. All right. Then, why did your fingers up? Oh, I thought it was like a wait.

Oh, no, I'm waiting. No, I'm waiting for you. So, yeah. We're getting ready. Coming out, I really, really like the first two episodes,

but I think we can all agree. That was, it was a lot of plot, a lot of things going on for you. To me, these two episodes slow down, slow down a little bit. I was a little bit like,

okay, okay, I kind of wanted more to happen. How are you feeling after episode three and four? Particularly three, like, grinded things to a little bit of a halt, I think maybe to reinvest us into some of the emotional stakes. Four comes back and ends in such a sinister way with the emergence of Ultron that I was fucking loving everything that happened because it ramps up to like a fever pitch. Ultron Jocasta, for my nerd, but it was just going nuts, right? It was great. But I do think that two, the first two episodes were getting us back into the world.

and kind of how off kills with the world is. Three, did a lot of character work, and I'm not so sure that I was as invested into the characters as I needed to be for that episode to completely be something I was into. Felt like a breather a little bit. Four, though, with the entire way that the narrative is constructive, really to me,

maintained the momentum of the show for me. So that's basically half a feel. But I understand what you're talking about for sure. But even, like, for me, the thing that, like, it's that comic book nerd part of my brain is how well they are not even just integrating all of the MCU history but just Marvel history I really really hope that we get some more of the Human Torch stuff

because even using for people who don't know before there was Johnny Storm there was an original Human Torch I think his name was Jim Hammond who was with the invaders it was Captain America Bucky Namor Human Torch and Torch Toro. Yeah. And the original human torts that we saw in the original Captain America First Avenger,

that has always been fascinating to me. And them in that fourth episode and throughout this almost pointing towards how much the vision and Ultron almost all of the AI in this world is one long lineage is something that I'm super fucking fascinating. That there's a whole Sith lore that exists. and vision is more not of something that's novel, but a part of a tradition of something that's existed as long as Marvel's been around.

Really interesting situation. And kind of sets up where the story is going to go kind of talking about vision's humanity as it is expressed by an artificial being. Yeah. I think to Charles's point, the show, I mean, at least the way I'm thinking about it, it's kind of like bowling where they set up all these pins

but the end of the day, you've got to knock them all down. right you have uh Tommy envisional relationship you have Ultron and Visitor relationship too to Costa Ultron like all these like they spent a lot of time with Edith and who she is right before she was an AI you know and all these all these relationships and all these things and like halfway through I feel like we're we're on a good trajectory to knock them all down but to your point like episode three like although I do understand like you have to reorient the the story around Tommy and Vision, right? But that's important because, like you guys both mentioned,

episode four, man, when Ultron starts cooking, when James Spader starts cooking, we're like, all right, man, this is it, this is the good stuff, right? I'm constantly impressed, really. I think the disorientation that I might have had in episode two lingered a little bit in three. It's because of the fact that, like, I thought that this was going to be, like,

more or less the search for Tommy and, like, the reuniting of the Wanda Vision family, at least as far as like that half of it is concerned. And they're compressing that like very quickly in episode two and three to kind of give us something that's even more out of the ordinary for vision. And like you said, the lineage of AI and how all of these entities are kind of connected by some sort of heritage or philosophy that it like on the, it's very surface level, but like as they're kind of tapping into more, it actually feels a lot smarter than I

thought it was going to be. Like the idea that all of these like tech CEOs have like made like the base version of a thing only for it to get reappropriated and sold to something else. So it can then be springboarded by a weapons manufacturer or something else. Like the the parallels are kind of like right there on its face. And I didn't know that it would be that forward facing with the kind of the real world analogies of this. It's like wildly smart. It was like AI doesn't work. We try to or we made like the skeleton of it now we have this much richer company

take the baton for whatever they want to do with it. It's so interesting to me because I think at its best the MCU being so connected, they'll introduce a new concept which is like oh we intellectually

know that the Jarvis AI is based off of an old butler but realizing all of these AI are based off different people in Tony's life. is fascinating to me. It just, because you're like, oh, I knew that Tony was this lonely CEO

who was hard to connect and then him basing all of these AI on people who, like the secretary for his dad, and then Edith worked for the start company. I was like, oh, that's like so smart and deepens the lore of the MCU. And that's what the best of these shows do. Also makes you understand why Tony became Tony

because when he became a man and he was as successful as he was as an arms dealer and a leader of a company CEO, mogul, whatever you want to call him, whatever he was. He wasn't happy because he was lonely and didn't have family. And so when he devotes himself to something greater and he finds family in that, that's when he becomes a full person.

And then at the end of his arc, He's actually legitimately found family, which is why he goes back to save the universe, which is because everyone else has lost what he has gained. But he was always searching for that. That is when rec conning is at its best when it can do something like that with a character like Tony Stark. It also kind of like gives vision and the rest of these AIs, which we thought were just like sidekicks, more of a place in the world to have some stakes. Like they matter.

They mean something. And they're searching for who they are too, which is interesting when you think of like an artificial being doing that. How do you guys feel like, because at first when White Vision was introduced in Wanda Vision, there was a part of me, I just wanted the regular vision back. And I was kind of wondering how they were going to split the difference. And this show to me is so much more fascinating that it is White Vision trying to come to terms with whether he is a new creation. and how much of his old self is still in there, Paul Bettney's doing such a fucking fascinating job because I'm always like, oh, he would miss Ultron.

And he does have this connection to Wanda, but his version was never actually in love with her. And even how it's showing the connection with Tommy where I'm like, oh, these are two beings that are trying to figure out how much of us was created by Wanda and this nightmare and how much of it was real. I was like, that's fucking fat.

Even when it doesn't work, I'm still like, my head is scratching because I keep forgetting that's not our vision. It's something different. And I like the idea that he bounces off of his artificial family as they're kind of fully realized entities. Like,

whenever he sees Edith, whenever he interacts with Friday, he, like, while he's kind of like the master of the prison, keeping them inside of his mind and like learning from them and utilizing them for whatever he needs, he kind of looks at them with adoration because their purpose is fully realized.

Like, Edith is this bubbling, smiling, like, wild, like, Amelia Earhart type character that he looks at her with, like, this kind of, like, smiling adoration because of the fact that, like, she has this sense of purpose. And he's trying to figure that out through all of these things while Ultron's trying to deconstruct and challenge all of them at the same time. It's a perfect dynamic, I think. I think for me, the character of vision, like that particular dichotomy of like, am I vision, am I not vision? Like what, like who am I?

It's actually, you guys mind if I like nerd out just like really quick in terms of. Is this really the place for that gentleman? Wait, is this a Jomey Explaner corner? No, this is more like there's so, I don't know if you guys have ever watched Red versus Wood. It's a show from Rousty Teeth and based long story short, there's a character. Right, his name is church. And he's, he's an AI, right? And eventually, like, they find out he's like the big, it's a whole thing.

He found out he's a big AI. But there's also the memory of church, right? They call him Epsilon. And eventually church dies, but the memory of Epsilon lives on as church, right? And so, like, a lot of the story in the later seasons, like, basically, like, is this, like, this version of church? Epsilon actually church or he's a memory of church and how that affects everybody else going on.

This story, like the vision story, is like a one-to-one. And I know like, you guys haven't locked in on this. But when I see that this vision story, I'm like, yo man, give Bernie Burns, give my hell of him some cash, for real, because it's essentially like what happens when one person

is based on the memories of another person and how you then move through the world are you, is he church? Not really. Is he vision? Not really. He's a memory of vision. Right.

And what does that mean when you are now put with all your friends, all the people who knew in your previous life? And they're like, no, man, this is your church, your vision. He's like, I am, kind of, right? I'm based on the memory of a vision, but I don't quite, I'm not, I'm not exactly that guy. So would you, would you be claiming your son if knowing that like your vision? The memory of his dad? Yeah, right?

But even he is like, yo, that, like, even that version of the hex, like, none of that was real. Right. All of that was fake. So the fact that you exist is kind of nice. Can we keep? So the Wanda Vision vision vision has been a while since I watched it. The vision that Wanda created was never real. It was just her vision.

I mean, literally, her vision of vision. Her memory of vision. She manifested a vision that was memory-wise and, like, facsimile a one-to-one of the vision that died. But then that vision then gets form as he inhabits an actual body. Look, I actually think that we've got a bunch of different media in the last 10 years. Even like Jorrell, you start to wonder, well, you know, he's having a conversation with his dad. With his dad. And the dad is saying, hey, go left, go right.

Like, I'd keep you around. You know what I mean? But then you, if you take black mirror into account, the show is just a complete examination of the nature of being. And the conclusion that you get is that consciousness is almost everything with that, right? Like in San Juan Imperial, the women are being kept alive by machinery, but it's them, they feel, right? And they have memories and emotional knowledge and recollection.

I think that the question is profound, but I also, think there's something else. They keep saying something. They keep saying Wanda created you. Like Wanda manifested you. Well, to me, that's like what women do. Like women create life through what essentially to me is magic. Now, we understand it to be real. But my God, once you understand what women do to bring life to this earth, how their bodies react and how it feels otherworldly, like what women and what mothers do, they always create love and life through both this actual biology, which is magical, but also this will that mothers have, which is also magical.

So they're resisting something that is natural because they've been told that it's not. Like they've been told that this is not the way that you have kids. Right. Like you don't manifest kids like this. There's a different process for that. So this feeling that you're feeling that's telling you you're actually somebody's son or that you're actually somebody's spouse or that you're actually vision, you have to deny that because that's not the way things really are. But really it is. Really, he's vision.

That's his son. That's his wife and that's their mother. But if we're going to be real, and this is what I think episode three was interesting to me is that what Tommy is having to like come to grips with. is that to save the soul that Wanda created, Wanda had to put it into another person. So Tommy essentially has the memories of who he was before and the memories after. And I think it's so interesting that Vision is the same thing.

Where it is like, oh, Vision has two souls in him, essentially. He has the memory of who he was with Wanda and everything he did with the Avengers. And everything that comes after is him constantly questioning to your point. Like, Wanda is essentially like my wife and like the love of my life, but also kind of my mother, which is like if you think about it. But what he told her was grief is love persevering. And so there is not a more loving act that you could bestow on someone than not letting them die. That is what we do with the people that we've lost like all the time.

We just don't let them die. Now, we can't bring them back to life, but we just do not allow them to die. She saved his consciousness. She conjured him. By the way, it's not like she didn't do David Copperfield magic to look over here. She can actually do magic. She can actually create. And so them come into terms with whether or not Wanda, to your point, is there,

I think it's even more than mother whether or not Wanda is wife or mother or God creator. You know what I mean? It's an interesting thing. The Tommy character, I'll be honest, is not totally working for me.

Yes, I agree. Okay. It's not totally. However, the deeper the connection gets to vision, the more it does. Yeah. Is Tommy a little too plucky? Well, he's plucky as fuck. It's, it is the Billy, the Growing up Billy and Tommy, I will say, playing a teenager is rough.

The angst, there's a lot. There's so much angst sometimes. And I know that this serves the story, so I'm not letting it distract me. There's a lot of angst. In episode three specifically. In episode three specifically. It got better. And four, it got markedly.

Way, way, way, way better. Talk about to say, like, the scene where, like, he, like, vision realizes we're going to need his expertise to help, and they do the whole, like, pickpocket scam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, that's abuse. Yes. Right? That's the kind of us.

Well, I mean, I know, but it's more of just like children are only good when they're of use in stories. It's way more interesting when Tommy is being like the pick pocket who's had to be out on the streets. I'm like, all right, that's cool. When he's like afraid of the pool, I'm like, all right, nigga, get in the pool. No, but you got to remember right. I think they talked about this in Ackithal Along too, but they died. Billy and Tommy died. Both of them, yes.

Both of them died. And their souls are in bodies that are stolen. You know what I'm saying? So, like, if I, like, kind of died in a pool, I would also be afraid of a pool, right? I'm not going back in there, you know? It's funny that that kid looks just like Paul Benton, you know? I was one of my favorite scenes was when they were talking

and she called him handsome. And he looks over, he goes, what she's saying is that by every metric, I'm more attractive than you. That's something that they are falling into, to me, a very accessible father-son relationship. The longer they're on screen together. And there's something else here.

Ultron, the Ultron Tommy Vision thing, Ultron is still such a machine that he's asking Vision to do things that he can't do because Vision has become too human. Ultron's going, hey, get away from, let him go, whatever. Vision can't do it. Vision can't do it because of what he knows that the kid needs, but also because that kid is still tethering him to Wanda.

And he doesn't know her, but he feels her. And so much of the show is like litigating what's the difference between what you know and what you feel. Right. And I do love how, again, episode four really does cook. Like the reflection and crisis of self because of what the memories are reflected in old vision and white vision combating each other,

it's really well reflected in the crisis of identity that Edith has when she finds out what her origins are and the relationship to Stark and everything. And then Ultron kind of bestows this wisdom of Hunter that only you get to be the newest version of yourself. And like it's, I paraphrasing, but he says it beautifully. And to know that that's kind of what the journey of like every other character in this cast is on is great.

And I think four with the way that it ends, ends, like, is, like, illustrating the idea that, like, while Ultron ultimately wants to break out of the prison that Vision is making for him, I think that this is a step towards that, it makes this incredible idea of, like, only if you are of use, can you, like, assign yourself some purpose, according to Ultron. But I'll also say it's little stuff, too, where I was wondering how they were going to show the connection between Tommy and Vision. and there's a moment in three

where I'm like, oh, what he realizes Tommy can phase through stuff? The fish is like, that's my kid. That's so sick, dog. That's my boy, man. So let's stay on Tommy for a second.

Tommy is realizing his power. He's realizing who he is. There's pluck. Do we like Tommy's character? How do we feel about the character of Tommy right now through four episodes? I think it's good. I don't want to like, you know,

get ahead to episode. episode five, but I'm interested to see what, like, the Tommy Ultron relationship looks like, right? Because ultimately, like, he is, call me Pop Pop, right? I'm your grandfather, what's going on, like, to see him, like, have that conversation with his, you know, homicidal grandpa is interesting. But ultimately, through these four episodes, I think I'm not Team Pluck like that. I think it was fine. You got to get that emotional connection in episode three to give you episode four.

But I'm enjoying it. So before we get off Tommy, now that we have all the Young Avengers on screen, do you think Kevin Fagy is at the point where he's like, hey, the experiment worked? But I mean, we tried to experiment. It didn't work. Man, I'm going to be real.

I don't care. At this point. At this point, we've seen the Young Avengers on screen. Like, they haven't done anything with the Young Avengers. I think what I'm going to do with Marvel going forward, I'm interested to see what you have you guys. to this question is I'm going to react to what they put on the screen

and not even they always okay let me reorient I'm going to react to the character of Tommy then stature and then whoever else young patriot little little patriot niggas all of these things

if they ever America if they ever come together and make the Young Avengers I guess somebody will be happy but until then I am going to be like, hey, the Young Avengers are in this world somewhere. Maybe they will eventually do the Young Avengers. But when I'm watching this show, I'm so not trying to think of any of that stuff.

I'm trying to be immersed into this particular story. I think, I mean, I think it's, I mean, it's easy to think that way, though, because I feel like they're not even like connecting the dots for all on these characters. We know that at some point they all come together. But except for the, the, the, and credit scene at the end of the Marvels. The Marvels, yeah. Outside of that, they haven't really touched on it. We just see, again, we see the young patriot, homie, we see Miss Marvel, we see Hawkeye,

we see all these little things. And we're like, okay, all these characters exist in this world, will they ever come together? Outside of the Miss Marvel post-credits, that hasn't really been a thing. So to his point, the end of the day, like, we're not going to see the Young Avengers Avengers until we see the Young Avengers. Do you think we're going to see Billy, though? People have already, I saw a TikTok the other day that when, so remember in episode two, when he's like changing like after the grift with the watch.

Oh yeah, you can see Billy. And like, you can like, they're like, that was Joe Locke. Like that was Billy walking past. And I was like, it really does look like him. If you like look back, it really does look like Joe Locke. And so I think Billy shows up because it doesn't, because I don't think he's behind pallid to be clear. I don't think he's behind Paladin.

But I think it wouldn't make sense if Vision and Tommy are looking for family. They come together like, like, yo. we had a brother, where's the, where's the brother? And Billy's like, what's up, guys, it's me? That makes sense. I know Steve thinks Billy is behind Paladin, but the reason I'm like, Dog, Paladin be killing him off. Billy's killing a lot of people.

Right. I know, I know Billy, but to be fair, he has Agatha's ghost behind, in his head telling him what to do. Maybe, but I mean, shit, that's what Gene Gray did. I watched a movie again. Yeah, Step Amanda to oncoming traffic. Did not kill him. Still alive.

So, that. I mean, it's dead. All right, bro. All right. All right. All right. I've seen the movie three times. I think a die, bro.

He got to have to ask. He got a run over play. I'm pancake him. I am a little worried. The one thing I am worried about X-Men, which I'm very excited about. X-Men. How do we get there?

If we're being real, every single time the MCU introduces kids, these niggas-plucky as shit. I can't have the X-Men being plucky. Yeah, but then you can get a Tom Holland out of that. I mean, yeah. I mean, I mean,

I mean, Spider-Man is got to be... If you're willing to wait 10 years for them to get out of it. The KK and four movies to get it right? Well, you would imagine, like, the whole thing is they got to come together because Mr. Sinister is out there messing around, whatever. I will be honest. They are going to be, what, portrayed as, like, 17, 18-year-olds-brother.

I don't know what to tell you, man. Gene wasn't Plucky. Yeah. Not at all. She was, she was... She was wrong, but she was, like, resolute. She was sinister. She was played with edge.

Gene wasn't plucky. But I think you mitigate that too. If there's a Professor X, like an adult in the room that helps, you know, shepherd these kids along. Because if there was just five kids, like Cyclops, Gene, you know, a storm, just like running around doing stuff, then like maybe you could get a little into the pluck range. But I think if Professor X is there and he's the one like in charge pulling the strings,

I think you kind of mitigate the pluck factor on that. Let's talk about Joe Costa. Thoughts? Like, I just, I love Joe Costa as a character. I think she's fucking fascinating. Looks incredible. Yeah. Looks incredible.

Great design. Like, really great design. I thought the butcher bird stuff was whack. I mean, they only did that for like an episode. Yeah, but I was literally like, I don't care. I know that's just Costa. I'll be real. They, if we're talking about power scaling, a white vision needs to start getting busy, bro.

He's hurt. Yeah. He got stabbed. Like, that's what they do. That's what they do division. They have to take them, yeah. But they've been doing that division if we're being real, the entire MCU.

From the minute they gave him the mindstone, not, well, he got busy in Civil War. He got busy and Asian. He didn't get busy in Civil War. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. He was not playing hands for nobody. If he was busy in Civil War, he would have been half.

But that, but that's, the explanation for that, though, is that there. It's a scrimmage. Yeah, that's what, yeah, they're, they play fine. He's pulling punches because these are his friends. I did see someone online say there's the reason Thanos had to get Vision out of there real fucking quick. Yeah. Yeah, because he was the man.

He was giving hands in age of Ultron, if you remember. Think about this. Know that Ultron's in Vision's head in Civil War. Did he let Roddy fall on purpose? Was that Ultron's in Vision's head in Civil War? Yeah. How? To assume that our vision took on Ultron the moment at the end of Age of Ultron.

Is that what they said? Because I thought he went back to Sokowia together. I thought he went back to Chicago. Or are you saying that at the end of age of Ultron, when they have that standoff? Yeah. See, has he had Ultron's AI in him? That's what I thought. No, well, because, well, then he blew up.

Well, remember, he takes the mindstone out of his, out of his head. And this is white vision. The vision's gone. Yeah, yeah, the vision has gone. I thought that White Vision has traveled to get all these AI. That's what I, yeah, that's what I figured. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I figured.

Um, guys, I love you guys. What's happening here? Uh-oh. I love you guys so much. Something's coming. Nothing's coming. Nothing's coming. It's weird.

He ran out something. Oh, I thought it was like, he ran out. He didn't have anything to say, guys. You glitched out? Glitched out. He glitched out with love. Joemy glitched out against. No, you know, I think that vision always has to be nerfed.

They treat vision like they treat the Hulk. He always has to be nerfed. I wonder for you guys. Would it be easier going forward? going forward for Marvel to continue to nerve characters that are too powerful, or do you think that it would be easier to raise the stakes in what they're fighting

so that you don't need to nerf them? That might be expensive, but is the nerfing of characters like Vision or Hulk or even sometimes Storr, like is the nerffing of these characters serving these stories, or is it kind of a cop-out sometimes so that they don't get busy to the level

that we think that they should. I think realistically, because the MCU was so interconnected, we're always going to have that question of when they're fighting someone. I'm like, Thor could really fuck up this shit and clean it up in half hour. This is also what annoys me

because, like, yes, the legacy of the MCU is turning all of those movie-going fans into comic book fans inadvertently because they always have those conversations. They're always like, Well, the Hulk wouldn't do that. Like, we've always had that conversation. It's always ended up a power-scaling conversation.

But also, he was ever on screen. Think about the Snyderverse. I think we got a vision of that with that Justice League movie where it's like, well, what if Superman is really as? And you're like, oh, it's less interesting because, like, Ben Affleck is just, like, sitting there. When Superman shows up, it was over. Like, in that movie, to your point, when Superman showed up, he comes back, whatever, whatever, he flies away. they do the lowest rehabilitation. That's a great.

But it actually makes it better because when Superman comes back, like Steppenwolf is just totally fucked. And that actually was pretty cool. Sure. Like he stepped in a... Oh, bro. Come on, man.

Wait, you're talking about the first one of the long... At the end of the... I'm talking about... I know the Snyder cut? Yeah, at the end of the Snyder cut, where he gets chopped on the shoulder. He shows up and Steppenwolf is totally... That was cool.

It's cool because that's the utility that Superman has as part of Justice League. Why are the rest of these little niggas there? Because he's not there. Because Superman was not there. Superman was not there. We got to do this whole thing by ourselves. But Stevenwolf actually says in the movie he goes, no, there are no protectors. No lanterns.

No ciptonians. This world will fall. This world will fall. Just like the others. And he was wrong because there was a cryptonian. The cryptonian shows up and he gets busy, man. Fuck you guys. Anyway.

None. Because Superman's O.P. And then we always have to argue about why he's not there. And that's what, and that's what, like, movie-going MCU fans that have been doing forever. Because, yes, of course, the Hulk will crack a planet in half easily. But even my point is, is there not a way? And the difference is comic books do this.

Right. So comic books take characters that we know are O.P. And give them such challenges that it strains the level of their power. Like, they go, okay, Nobody can fuck with Superman. Now, here is an unkillable cryptonian beast that Superman has to contend with. Now, obviously, there's so much more freedom

and creative range in the comic books. You can just draw it. You don't have to render it and do the whole deal. So what I'm saying is when we see vision in this, we know that, like, vision is not going crazy with their hands. I think the show kind of explained, like, remember when he's looking at Hammond and he's talking about how the mindstone helped me, like,

overwrite a lot of these issues. Yeah. But I don't have the mindstone. I legitimately think he's weaker. Oh, no, he's weaker, but he's also injured. Because, like, some of his things are offline. He's weaker, he's injured. I think legitimately, like, he's not the same demon he was, man.

But it's also interesting to see him as more human. Sure. I do agree with him. Yes, right. And without, like, as we see with when Ultron takes the wheel, not nearly as, like, creative at killing things. people and solving problems. I say what, man, that scene was tight, bro.

Yeah. They're having, like, the back and forth, and then he gives her the wheel for some reason. Well, Katie Zachariah got fired. How many days was that? It was five days. Dang, half a scera moochie. Amazing. That's half a scara moochie.

That's half a scara moochie. That's a scara. It's not even... Is it a scara or moochie? It's not that moochie, man. To your point, like, Jacosta was... I thought looked incredible. The backstory of like how she came to be, I thought was incredible to.

Wait, do we like them changing her comic book origin a little bit? Right. Because in the comic books, if I'm correct and somebody can correct me, Jocasa usually in the comic books is created by Ultron. By Ultron. Right. As his wife. Yes.

Yes. And in this, she is based off of the original creator of this AI. And it seems like... Or at least a co-creator or like originally. Because I think that she's like a, like it's like a memory injection into an AI that she made, right? Yes. And the other founders of the company basically fucked her over.

Yeah. I will say now, if we're being real. Say it. You know, based in Joe Costa off the memories in the life of a black woman and these white people basically killing her. Crazy. There's a lot going on in Vision Quest. But you saw Ostra, I was looking at it, though.

Do you think Spader's got the juice? Oh, Spader can't. Spader got to come on, man. Spader got the juice. Respect Spader. I'm not, I'm just saying. Like, how do you think that's going down? I mean, he's definitely.

You tell us, Steve. I'm not telling you. That's you. Like, so what do you guys think about that scene at the end, like when literally, because, Hey, man, Vision, my guy. Yeah. I mean, he kind of, he's making some bad decisions. You can't let, you can't let Ultron take the win.

All right. That's where that was a little, it's not even a quarterflare. but we need a phrase for when a character does something so fucking idiotic that I'm like there's no way you can't Giving ultra on the wheel was too stupid I mean yeah

and then he was like surprised he's like Locked him out? He's like oh he locked us out I'm like Nicky of course yes What you think was gonna happen? He was about to die right He was about to get fucked up like so it was to the point

at the end he If you give Ultron the wheel you know that that's going to happen You can't act of self-preservation But he was about to die Like he was about to die And he's been about to die for like three episodes My thing is

When Ultron takes the will Does Ultron have physical power That vision doesn't have Because wouldn't his body still be damaged? So this is kind of what I really like about the show And I don't know how much people are going to be on board with it Because they have this like The visual metaphor of like

The Mind Palace And the like it's cheesy and dumb, but, like, I liked that he took, like, a big captain shipwheel and, like, is driving it into a storm. I have no strings. And that's, like, the connective issue of him, like, controlling his body. I would assume that he kind of has control over the mind space, at least, and that all of the other occupying AIs are just in a subservient role. I don't know if he's going to relinquish control at all. No, what I mean is that vision, part of Vision's damage is physical.

Yeah. Vision has physical damage, so that damage means that some of his abilities are offline. Yeah, but I took it as Ultron. Remember in the first episode, I think Ultron's a predator. So I think even if he's not as strong as Joe Costa, when he takes over Vision's mind, he's more lethal. He's willing to do- He's creative enough to solve the problem. I mean, to your point, he literally takes, he like throws the sphere, she ducks, she fires something, and he puts Homegirl in front. That's something vision will never do.

He's more cunning. His emotions and everything from being the previous vision, I think Clouds his judgment. And Ultron's just like, that's the Terminator. He's like, nigga, I don't give a fuck.

We just get you done. I killed what you needed. Now you got no, there's nothing you can do about it. Let's just, let's talk or let's have it out, whatever. Can I pitch you on something? Because these shows always do it.

Do you think we are going to get a one-off episode? It wouldn't really be like a bottle episode? do you think we're going to get a Human Torch episode? That would be really interesting. OG Human Torch episode, that's a bold. It would have to happen next episode, maybe. Yeah? No, we have eight episodes.

We're halfway through. They keep talking about the Human Torch, Hammond. And I'm like, all these shows do a back in the past. Well, do you guys feel like this narrative is going. To ask that question, I guess, if we go back to some of the Bala episodes that have been in shows that we've covered recently. One is, of course, the John Stewart Bottle episode, which is an essential episode of that show

because it gives you the entire motivation for the character, right? It sets up your expectation set for him. If you go back to the bottle episode that was in Wonder Man, I loved it. A lot of people didn't like it as much. Which one was that? Oh, Doorman. Doorman.

So the Dorman episode, to me, of Wonder Man, is incredibly essential because it tells you why Wonder Man is high in the fact that he is a super, why Wonder Man is going through all the mechanations that he's going through. Also a fun episode too. I loved it.

I did not focus that episode. You did, right? I loved it. I loved it. So I guess we would have to know, in those two shows, it was clearer, like where the narrative of the show

is actually going, right? To this point, it's not. as clear where the narrative of this show is going. So what would the Human Torch bottle episode really serve? Because to me, that's the original sin where it is like, I think they keep pointing back to the Human Torch because it connects back to when Vision says,

basically the Mindstone was the thing that allowed him to almost supersede like his programming. And learn about emotions. And the Human Torch is the first example. Oh. Of the thing that cannot transcend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like basically that metaphor of AI almost burning itself because it just cannot, like, when you think of Ultron, Ultron almost, Ultron Joe Kossack can't help but become genocidal because they really can't understand humanity.

Right. And I'm like, Human Torch to me would be if they do a flashback is connecting to what makes vision different. He would have to, I feel like he would have to show up, though. Right. We need to get a version of Jim Hammond. whether it's like in the mind space or the actual, like, factual, they make him in real life

because if he's just like, if he's just like a piece, like a metaphor, something to think about, then like a flashback episode kind of seems like, all right, right? But maybe because if I'm correct in the comics, the human torch's body is basically the vision.

Like is what the vision they use for the vision potentially to heal himself. do they try to find to incorporate the original the original human towards body because they're not getting vibranium there ain't nobody like the Wakans are not picking up the fucking

but the adamantium's out there it is out there but if we go back if we circle back to what you were saying about because I agree with you I don't know where this is going and I think part of this is a Marvel issue

where I'm wondering how important this will be to the larger Marvel project, because I don't know if even these characters are going to be around anymore. Like, is Vision going to be a part of whatever is rebooted after Secret Wars? Like, is this being carried on? Are we going to see, like, when I meant, when I, when I, when I, when I said when I, when I, when I said where the narrative was meaning, I just meant for these characters.

Okay. Like, you know, I've said before, the question of the larger Marvel thing, I am like, sort of no longer interested in, although I did think it was, it was, it was, it was, awesome, well, not awesome. I thought it was kind of noteworthy that Paladin, when he's talking, all of those puns that he uses to talk about

all those different people that he's fought. He's been with Daredevil. He's been with World War Wolf by Night. Oh, yeah. He's been all over the place. That was sick. It was so so cool. I love that. Alright, Marvel has an issue with villains. I think Paladin is so cool. I think Paladin is awesome. I think it was a good job and I think that

getting a little bit of his backstory in terms of how how he waived his feed. Right. He is a bounty hunter as we discussed. Oh, by the way, shout out to everybody

that gave us the differences between bounty hunter and mercenaries. When they did? Yeah, a lot of people reached out to me. It was really interesting. There's big differences between bounty hunters and mercenaries.

Interesting. I wish Paladin was on the Thunderbolts. Like, that's how much I love Paladin. Oh, yeah. Put him on the squad, for sure. And then when you see all of that and you see that he's been all over the place doing his thing,

but there's also not just and this is, you know, canon, but there's not just a, he's not just a soldier of fortune. He's more like a Boba Fett where there's also a way of life that orientes why he's doing what he's doing. He's got to have a coat.

Right, and he gets scared by the fact that he might lose the contract because the contract is his purpose. I also love the little pump fake of his origin where you think that his dad's just going to like, like be a dickhead to him and teach him how to be the Paladin, but no,

his dad was a hit that a Paladin gave to him and then he was raised by one. Just adopted, great. As his dad was being a dick to him. Yes. You know what I mean?

Did he hired a Paladin? Did he hired a guy to come in and take his dad out? Did CPS just get... You know what I mean? They come in. You think Paladin turns the corner?

You think Paladin is like, hey, man, I need this contract, man. I need this money, brad. No, I think he's going to, he's going to do that contract himself. Like he's going to just Is brisk rule Be between him and vision like that?

Well, no, in the comic books, Paladin, he typically finds his way to the side of the good guy. Not all the time. But, you know, we talked about this before. Like, Palet, they're doing something. The person he's working for is about,

it says, hey, kill three kids. And he goes, I'm not doing it. Yeah. And they go, well, you don't do it. The contract's up. And he goes, okay, fine, I'll help dare devil. Since you want me to kill kids, I'm not killing him kids.

Remember Tony, Tony, Tony, not Tony Soprano, Tony, uh, Tony Montana. Tony, Tony, Montana. He's like, yeah, hey, they blow up the kids. He's like, oh, no, no wife, no kids. You think I need that, huh? Morga fucker. Spot on. That's really good.

You die. And then he kills him. That's really good, Tony, Montana. Sosa kills him because of that. Gaka Rami. That's really good. So before we go, I've been thinking about this. Before we, before Marvel wraps up this era,

of like MCU TV storytelling. Who is left on the MCU board that are characters that you're like, oh, they would make great TV shows? Like, what have we learned about Marvel TV, about what characters they have that really just work in television? I think the math on that is

they have to be established in movies and they come to TV. Because who would be the ones we think have worked? It's been Wanda Vision. Loki I mean Falcon Winner Soldier I think you make the case

Yeah Even Hawkeye Hawkeye Hawkeye yeah Right They're usually established in the movies first And then you expand

The universe Like their universe Using the TV shows Like add characters Like Hawkeye K Bishop And things like that But for the most part

Like Miss Marvel She Hulk Like a lot of those characters Where we're like Make Like we're introducing them For the first time NTP.

Bit of a So who's on the board where you're like... Wasn't Banner in Shee Hulk though? Briefly. At the end, he's got a son. In the beginning. Do not talk about that. In the end.

Right. So I mean, I think that Hawkeye is proved that they could do it. Yeah. Like how... But we cared about Hawkeye. Well, I mean... He's in the show.

Hawkeye is in... Like, Clinton Barton is in Hawkeye. Bruce Banner's not really in Sheehawk. I get it. I don't think that that's necessarily... I that first of all you guys are right that's how it has worked for sure I don't think that that's how it has to work

no no I don't disagree with that I don't think that's how it has to work I think that's how it has worked but I don't really think that's how it has to work because I think Agatha all along worked right and I don't think that Agatha was a character that we knew from the movies from Wanda Vision

I do think though that to you guys's point I think they treat characters that came from movies with a different gravitas. Oh, for sure. I think they treat those characters different. I think we come to them different,

but I also think they might take a little bit better care of them. You're not going to take Hawkeye and fucking make them a mutant at the end of the season. But I think, just being for real, I think that they take a little bit better to care of those characters. Are there any characters right now out in the MCU where you're like, oh, they would, like, the one I've been thinking about after this show,

like a character like the Century from Thunderbolts to me is similar to like Wanda in Vision where I'm like, that is a character that is very cerebral with all of his different like personalities and The Void or wherever where I'm like, oh, I don't know if I want to see a Century movie. I would watch a six to eight episode Century show. I mean, hell, the Thunderbolts could have made an amazing TV show. But Century's a movie character though. Really?

So many effects. He's too powerful, man. He's too powerful for it. He's a movie movie. He said the same thing about Vision, though. I mean, maybe. Like, unless it's like all mine stuff, though, right? That's the stuff I would be interested with Century.

If he's not actually like, it's not about punching stuff. If it's just Bob? He's just Bob. Yeah, the show just Bob. Not Century. He's just Bob. And like, you know, he's fighting the chicken guy in the void and stuff like that. I think a Florence Pew Black Widow show to me is more interesting than a Florence

Pew Black Widow movie. I mean, that could be true. I mean, look, all of this stuff. to me is it goes back to execution. What interesting new novel storylines and ideas do you have about the character? Right. And how can you put these characters in human situations that require a superhuman resolution?

And so like, you know, you look at a show like Secret Invasion that had comic book characters in it that we love. The show does not work. So it does not work because the show, the show does not have a point of view. Yeah. It's just stuff happening. And that's the thing, though. We act like Loki couldn't have been bad.

It could have been just as bad, if not worse. But it was so fucking novel, creative and awesome. Yes, it was. And that's exactly why. Also, like, when you bring up Agatha all along, to me, that's similar to lanterns where it's like when you have Catherine Hahn or you have Kyle Chandler, that's like half the battle already. When you have, uh, Kyle Chandler's not a movie star, but when you have an actor of that

caliber, you're going to fall in love. Yeah, but Moon Knight had Oscar Isis. And we love, you know what I'm saying? And eat the hog. You're not wrong. And by the way, we really wasted easing the hawk, didn't we? That was a, that was a brick. And for the time that we, because of that, that show glamorous for a little while.

Oh, no, for sure. We were really loud. We were like, that showed glamorous for a while. It didn't fall off until, like, the second half. Yeah, it's your glameters for a little while. I just think that, like, I'm having fun with this show, and I know that these things can happen. I think some of that stuff was more about the conveyor belt aspect of Marvel programming.

Yeah. I think we got into a content phase, and the content phase is just not good for superhero storytelling. Because to make stories of people flying around really resonate, you have put some deep humanistic themes into them. But I also think what's worked is, like, Marvel storytelling on TV

I started to feel a little bit more special because there's less of it where it's like I like the fact that we get Daredevil Wonder Man I could focus on that it's not like oh two months

we're gonna get another Star Wars thing another MCU I like the fact that Vision Quest doesn't have to be perfect but it's like oh I get to focus on vision for like what six

five weeks feel special and then we gotta wait a little bit more to your point that content coming out so much it started to feel like, oh, I'm used to it.

Kind of devalives the products. Come on. I mean, I agree. But like, you know, anytime you can take advantage of, like, deep lore. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Something that we already really, really know. We knew that, to your point, you guys' point,

Hawkeye had been roaning for a while. He had just been killing people. So how are you just going to go from killing people to being somebody's fucking, and mentor and all of that stuff, like what kind of rare where you have to get out of your ledges? There's a lot of stuff that is built in there

that other shows would have to do, like, less work. There was so much intrigue about what happened to Loki when he used the Space Stone to kind of like... Split off. Yeah, like, where do you go? Like, what happens? And the TVA is such an inventive concept. Right, right.

Like... The Hawkeye thing is funny because, I mean, you guys, you know, obviously watched Endgame. I was in there for Endgame Encore. And when Black Widow show up, and she's like, hey, man, we need you. I was like, wait a minute, hold on a second. You was kind of murdering, folks. Y'all just let him slide back because he's a homie.

That's kind of crazy. You at least got to do, you know, some type of reparations. No, no, no, no, hell no. Keep it the same. I've been saying this for years. Bucky, even in this fucking show. Ultron, like, y'all don't care. I mean, keep that same energy for Tony.

Well, no, no, no, no, no, remember, I don't care. Well, I agree with you. Bucky or, like, Bucky My Wash, but it was, if we're being honest, in the MCU, when you kill an MPC, it doesn't count. That's why people are not mad at Gene Gray. Bro, I watch Bucky. Look, Gene Gray, the same shit. Yeah.

I watch Bucky kill, bro. I watch Bucky, fucking kill Bucky. I know who you really are. And that's crazy, too, because Capp be like, that's my boy. And Cap, like, I don't fucking care. Let's ask. Let's be real. What is the difference, especially,

comics between when Wolverine kills and when Punisher kills. Because niggas look at Punisher like he had domestic terrorists. His deal. When fucking, when fucking... Both of us got... That's just Wolverine, you know? That's totally different than what I'm talking about. How?

How's it different? Because those people kill bad people. And you could argue that they shouldn't kill bad people, but the people that they're killing are bad. Sometimes Wolverine be killing good. Who did Wolverine kill that was good? In his berserker shit? I mean, okay, so look, I don't know that Wolverine has gone berserker and just

like killed all of the Revers and the people working at the Circle K. I don't remember saying. Maybe he has. Wolverine, I'm sure, has been mind control. He was, Apocalypse had him and all of that stuff. He was in the stereo. Yeah, yeah, okay. So I get it.

So, fine. Add Wolverine to it. I don't fucking care. But, like, what I'm saying is that, like, this, yo, they were mind control. You got to go at least to the Twin Towers, L.A. Correctional facility for a couple. You got to go somewhere. You kill.

I watch. When you're mind controlled, it doesn't count. Mind control, whatever. Was Hawkeye mind control? Nah, he was grieving. Sad, I'm sorry about your family, big dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He should have been done doing that.

But I will say that he did. He, you know, he killed bad people. But still, he had killed bad people that hadn't done anything. No, man. You should have, if they're white, you can't go to another country and go into killing. He was going to Mexico. He was going to Mexico and Japan. I'll tell you something about Hawkeye, for one.

To be honest, there's a lot of domestic terrorists right here at stateside. And he could have been in the country. He could have been in the country. He could have been doing work. Hawkeye went to Japan. I did not see Hawkeye marauding through the proud boys. He wasn't in any of the stuff. He wasn't at all.

I wasn't doing that. Hawkeye, I feel like he was taking it out on some. I don't know, Hawkeye. You see what's called? What board machine was there? I was like,

see these bodies, man. They didn't even get their guns out, bro. Come next on the Ger-Rogan podcast. It's definitely Barden. Do black superheroes ever get to be mind-control and go on a killing spree? I can't remember any.

By storm? No way to find out. Storms never. I'm sure it's half. happened, but I'm sure it's happened, but in the MCU, I can't think of any. I mean, but do they, I mean, they wouldn't get the same grace. Like if Black Panther

went to, like, Montana and was just going crazy, would he get... The raft. First... The raft. First boat on. The raft. Like, he's going to be... Like, you're going... Hello.

Hello, officer. Excuse me. On the Chala right there. In the rap. Right. Like, get your motherfucking. Get your ass. in the raft. We'll talk about it after. If Falcon went to Kansas, it was just going crazy. Hey, you ever heard the Paul Mooney bit where Paul Mooney is talking about how

white people go crazy and kill a bunch of people? And they go, he goes, hey, I killed this person because I heard 12 different voices. And they go, oh my God, we'll have to study that. And then a black guy goes, you know, I killed 12 different people and go, well, pick one personality maker because somebody going to jail. Damn. It's just the same, bro, but we do this to same thing. We do this over and arrest in peace, Paul Mooney, a genius. We do this over and over and over again. But I don't want to hear this because you accepted it.

Who's, yo, I was, we are on the same team. You were like, Bucky was mind control. He was. Bucky killed, bro. Bucky was killing, man. I'm not sure. Oh, John Stewart in the comics, he did genocide. He did genocide.

He genocided Mogo using Black Lantern energy. Okay. Did the guardians put them up? All right. First of all, Bill Reed. How, if we're being real with all the Green Lanterns and the comics.

Yeah, like, you know, you know, you know, you know, the Green Lantern shit is, we love how.

You know, all I'm saying is this. I would like to at least, you know how the Democrats fight fascism or with strongly worded letters? I'm not saying like barely. Big emails.

I would like at least for someone to have written a strongly worded letter to Buckie. But Cap wouldn't have it. Cap wouldn't have it. Cap said, that's my man. and get off us.

All right. If we're being real, if you're mind controlled, how many people can you kill where you're not looking at them crazy? Like, let's say Bucky only killed by 50 people. It's probably a power scaling thing. Like,

if you kill one really important person. 50 people, come on, but, first of all, I will say this, some of those people that he killed and were a soldier,

some of them were hydrant. Right. But wasn't he also like a... But he kicked that dude right into the jet. Yeah, yeah. That was crazy. You got to do time for that. I was hard.

What you guys also have to remember, though, is that Bucky also killed for decades. Yeah, wasn't he in the grassy-n-n-old? I didn't get it? I didn't bring this up when we had the Bucky thing. If I'm going to be real, Tony was an arms manufacturer. Facts. Yeah, of course. He's reverseable.

Irreversible. Hey, facts. I get it. Him and Ultron. Like, facts. I get it. All of that, I get it. But that doesn't do anything to destroy my point.

Tony Stark's body count after, I'm glad you brought up Ultron. Tony Stark and Bruce Banner already jail for life. How many people? 200,000? Hey, I'm fine with it. I'm consistent with it. My only point was,

even with those guys... Also, Captain America got a body count if you want to count all the people who died during Winter Soldier. If we're doing it like that. We're a hero, though. Oh, everybody got a...

War hero, though. Oh, my fault. My fault. Tony Stark ain't solved some problems, too? If that's how we want to compete, let's compete, let's do it. My point is, look, It's one thing to be like, yo, man, you know, you as an arms dealer, you did a lot of shady shit. Now you try to change.

That's cool. Gotta be held accountable. It's another thing to be like, ah, you know, this nigger was going crazy, killing people, kicking niggas in the turbine. All of that shit like that. Shoot people shot Black Widow. All of this stuff. Yeah, but you can't say I made Ultron whoopsie. Like, you can't do that.

Once you create Ultron and they fucked up the snap. So already, I'm looking at, if we look at our. Iron Man's ledger throughout the entire MCU. Who messed up the snap? Well, this is crazy. Captain America wasn't there? None of them, it was just Iron Man. It was Iron Man.

He was Iron Man by himself. He was swinging his fucking dick around. Sokovia happened. And then if we're being honest, at that point, then breaking up. But here's a problem with Stark, though. The only problem with putting Stark in that light is he then legitimately saves the whole universe.

After he fucks it up? No, Thanos wasn't his fault. Thanos was trying to get stones anyway. As a matter of fact, the only thing that... If the Avengers were together, though, and weren't fucking fighting, that shit probably wouldn't happen like that. No, no, no, no. Thanos had started to get stones and try to collect stones, like, way before that.

It's actually Thanos's lust for the stones that actually led Tony to try to fight him and create Ultron. He's been doing that since Avengers won't, right? So the only thing that redeems Tony is that Tony at the end saved trillions and trillions and trillions of lives. So he moored and Bucky ain't do that. I'm sorry. I don't know what the fuck out fucking by. Yeah, but you can't even, like, but like, what's this crazy?

He saved New York. It could have been great if you were just like, hey, maybe everybody who was killed by one of my missiles also. And then... You can't do that. Whoa. All right, first of all, between Falcon and the Winter Soldier

and Thunderbolts, you don't think Bucky did make up for her a little bit? Not the way Tony. Guess what? I like Bucky. But it's not comparative to the way Tony made up for it. Tony made up for it and, like, bringing everybody family back.

And also, he died. So the fact that the matter is, the rest of these people is chilling. Tony is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, Senator now. Tony hanging out with Marl Luther King Jr. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's, it's over, right?

Tony up there with Bo, man. Yeah, Tony, Tony going with Harambe and all of that different shit. Yeah. So it's, it's done. You imagine Michael, well, Michael Jackson about him. Well, just. My pen Wait, wait

Oh my God Wait Oh my God Okay, guys Oh Shut I am Jay Apologies don't matter, remember?

All right. Vision Quest three or four. I want to ask about one thing before I leave. Oh, my God. I wanted to know what you guys thought about this. So the show Vision Quest, even though that was a perfect place to end the show. I might even put this before this.

The show Vision Quest, when you look at the directors, all episodes are directed in twos. Yeah. Yeah. What do you guys think that means for the, of the narrative of the show. I mean, it could be like, I mean, we look at it now, like,

as a sort of, like, and or mini arcs of like, okay, they want to, like, expound and compress on, like, a certain idea. This, what, this, if I could, like, get, like, an idea out of the two that we got, it's probably, like,

the crisis of identity and personhood in the sake of lineage, from what I saw. Yeah. And, like, it feels like it's, this is a good, like, chapter end point of, like, all right, Ultron's in Vision's body.

Uh, we, where do we go from here? we have Jacosta on the hunt. Okay, TBD, how are they going to get out of this one? I like that idea. It seems to be structured pretty well. And it makes sense for more of like, all right, we're releasing twos, release and twos, release and twos.

I think they're learning. What I like about this show is like whether you love it or hate it, seeing the same director for both episodes, there is like a connective tissue. Right. That keeps me, like, even if there's like ups and downs, I'm like, oh, this feels of a piece where to me in previous

MCU shows, the ones that were a little less successful, the tone would change drastically as episode to episode. And Vision Quest, similar to Wanda Vision and Agatha all along, have, it's the best trilogy because

you feel like you're in safe hands. There's a flexibility too, because remember, like, we didn't know, like, how they're going to drop the episodes, like, but until like, what, a couple weeks before the show came out? But I think they understood, like, going through it was like, these things in a pair makes sense, right? You don't, because if we just got in episode three this week or so, you would have been like,

ah, yeah, right? You have to put those together. I think, obviously, four or five and six are in the same vein, and then seven and eight respectively have their own things going on, which makes sense to release by themselves. They stand as a piece on their own, whereas one, two, three, four, and five, six are all, like, excuse me, all like two parts of something. And so it just makes a lot of sense because like Steve said, like one and two had a distinct thing.

Three and four, I have a distinct thing. So I imagine five and six, I have a distinct thing that takes us all the way through to seven. So it makes a lot of sense. And I think the flexibility on Disney Plus and on Marvel side really works for this. Okay, guys, that is enough. It is over.

It is done. Episodes three and four. We're enjoying Vision Quest right now. Yeah. It's good stuff. It's good stuff. What else we got going on on Midnight? What's like, what we have coming up?

We got Clayface coming up. Clayface? Digger TBD. Digger TBD. Has everybody seen Digger? I have not. You still have a thing. I was thinking about this.

Dig, dig, dig, dig. There's a lot of movies coming out. Do we just want to do a roundup at the end of October? We could. Little Oscar roundup? We could do like, is Digger making the Oscars? No. Maybe.

No. I mean. Because what other movies, like, we were like, oh, let's put them all together. I'm about to see the Nathan Fielder, Elizabeth Holmes. Same. That looks crazy. Maybe we do Digger.

We do the Nathan Fielder joint. Maybe I'll see Street Fighter. Street Fighter. Street Fighter. We do Digger. If you see Street Fighter, you let us know. I kind of want to see if it's still out because I really want to support Mahershala.

Have y'all seen you know? Your mother, mother. I kind of want to see that. I want to see that too. Maybe, so maybe that's how we do it. Like, why don't we all try to like. Roundup? And maybe you street fighters, but like, two,

A two-hour movie Midnight Boys special. Maybe we do a mailbag. Like, we're just like sending in all your questions. We'll give y'all time to go see the movies. Like, yeah. Digger, hey, I'm telling you guys right now, you know, people say what they want to say about me. The narrative on Digger is starting to change.

What you mean? I still, the positivity is starting to come in. I already know what happens in Digger, which is up like. For a movie to become a cult classic in a week is very funny. Skip that agenda off, man. The narrative is starting to change on Digger. It's still broke, though. It's still broke.

But you're starting to see more people. They came out of the closet as a digger supporter. Okay. Well, I'm really proud of you. When I came out of the closet as a digger supporter. There's a lot of people around the town that were piling on. But when I came out of the closet as a digger supporter, a lot of people around the town, hit me up. We like digger too.

Digger, digger, digger, okay? I fuck with it. I got out of theater. So what he's on the Midnight Boys go to the movie agenda so I can make sure I see all. Digger. Your mother, your mother, your mother, your mother. You can see everything. You can see your mother, your mother,

your mother later on today. Street Fighter. Street Fighter and then Elizabeth Holmesock. Elizabeth Homestock. I think that's what. Also, sooner rather than later, we got Godzilla in like early November. Well, I mean, that's a whole episode.

Yeah, no, no. Let's do Godzilla now for that. We got the big four. We got the big four. So we'll do, if we do four and we do a two-hour show, we'll break it up and do X amount of minutes on each movie.

Okay. We don't have to go. deep dive and we can just be like, I just want to know what y'all thought about Digger. All right, I'm gonna go see Digger. Shit. Big Cruz, let's go, baby. It's our time. It's not our time.

It's not happening for it. He's not happening for it. He believes in itself. He believes in himself and that's really what matters. Under what circumstances could we get Tom Cruise on the pot? That's not happening. Never. Can we at least get the cake, though?

Tom Cruise might not do another interview for 50 years. Why? Just with the way the press run for Digger went and the way people kicked his fucking ask. Really? Sometimes, justifiably. You can't touch Tom Cruise, though.

Wait, wait, wait. What do you mean you can't touch Tom Cruise? What happened to the press run? There was a bunch of different interviews along the press run for Digger that just did not turn out well for Tom Cruise. Really? Yeah. No.

Yeah. Did not turn out well. Oh, man. I mean, the way people, not that he made blunders in these interviews, but he is so inaccessible as a human being that people clocked in. They didn't like it. Interesting. I thought that, like, if you survived the Oprah Couch moment, you can do anything.

No, I just think... You can't kill Tom Cruise, but at the same time... Well, you can't kill the man. From a PR standpoint. Oh, no. Anybody can get bad for you. You can kill the man. You cannot kill the idea.

Right. So, interesting. What's wrong, Chuck? You're looking at the phone? Tom... Wait, what? Tom Hitch? The cult...

Scientology... Oh, it's Tom Cruise. Whoa, I didn't know... My fault. There's a cake dropping from the... I didn't know you was team... Team... I told you like that.

All right. All right. We got to go. Because that was the last episode of the podcast because of what Jonmi just said. Time to do a speed run. You're going to go outside. Somebody will be taping you who they're on.

Biggest landowner in Hollywood. That's true. I mean, you're going outside somebody going to be taping you. There's one like across the street. You better go get a Guy Forks mask. Guy Forks? Hey,

is that what Fox? Fox. Fox. I see the people in the Guy Fox masks masks. Are you seeing people in the Guy Fox masks go to the Scientology place with this war? was going on and like

antagonize them I wish you guys would have been around in the 2010s in LA. Well when Vee from a dead end was done to you. I've seen the kids do the speed run. Go. You're having so if you in, bro, on a random I can I express this? L.A. used to be so much fun, bro.

Random nights days 2014, 2015, 2015, 2016. I wish I could have seen it. L.A. was so much. fun. You'll be driving down Hollywood Boulevard and you would just see a mob of kids and the

guy fox masks just outside the Scientology place, just going crazy. And then a couple of blocks down, you'll see people doing the jerk. Man, 2010's a thing. Then a couple of blocks down. I can't believe you lived in LA during the jerk

movie. That's insane. The jerk era, like the jerk. There was just Dougie in there. The Dougie and the jerk had taken over the city. Dougie's a turtle. Everybody was going crazy. By the, I knew it was the end. Once we got to the cat, daddy, I'm like, all right, y'all niggas is to stop here. To 11?

All that shit, bro, like, you would go out to the clubs that the music. Anytime that Kid Inc. was playing. Oh, man. It was a fun time. I'm sorry. No, you could see. Kid Inc. You wasn't there.

Hold on. I have to dig a shit. Like, you wasn't there. You weren't there. You were there. Nog-da-da-da-da-da-da. Niggas this kid ink. but if you were in the club

and main chick was playing you was having fun that was just a different The show me remix? Like, Hey, Juicy J and 2J? If you was outside,

if you were outside. If you were outside. Niggins looking at Dom Kennedy and Kidding, wrap it up. Dom Kennedy is a fucking legend. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. This is some East Coast nonsense.

If you was listening, if you was really outside in L.A., I would say from like 11, like to like 17. Damn you was having fun, though. That was,

That was fun. Y'all got on back. Like, y'all don't know nothing about no Kirkgo bangs. YG in 2014, man. YG and 2014. Come on, man.

All of these records that was coming out. When paranoid with tied down on the side. Wow. And Joe Moses, when the Joe Moses version of the record when all of that shit was dropping,

L.A. was fun, man. When mustard was on his. With mustard. L.A. was fun. T-fly. Come on. T-fly.

24 hours. Like, like the L.A. was fun, man. L. L. Come on. It might still be fun. I'm an old-ass nigger,

but L.A. was fucking fun, bro. L.A. was fun, man. Just like Hollywood Boulevard was alive. Hollywood was alive. All different places was alive. Man, shout out to J. Room service. Kids don't dance anymore.

Womb service, remember where two chaise was hopping on that beat, man, y'all weren't there, brooms service. Give me fun seconds. She's getting a womb service. Southside, nigga, on those side. Still got a whole poppy boomer wrettes. Right. Go hide that, pussy.

You should be the top. Like the robot. Hey. And let the thug get it. We ain't got to get just going to work. I got 24 hours. I told you, man.

Man, shout out T. Fly. Come on, man. Shout out to the whole crew. Shout out Jason Martin, Glass Malone. We used to make real music, man. We used to make real music, man. We used to make fun. R.J.

Oh, whatever, bro. I was fucking with it. All right. On Thursday, Buttmask celebrates the GTA 3 25th anniversary. Also on Thursday, House of Ar is back with Vision Quest. They're doing deep dives over there.

to Midnight Boys give their clay face reactions. Our producers today are Lance and theirs, Devin Brody, Jamie Yukich, Jomey dinner on socials, hashtag, no strings on Jemmy. They're not. No strings on Jomey. Oh, when Ultron stepped out in the suit

and there are no strings on me, chills, bro. Great. Age of Ultron. Age of Ultron. Over Haiti. It's probably the, like, most important moving the MCD. He was cooking.

He was cooking. He came out there are no strings. Ultron, that... James Spader, come on, bro. That episode ended on a high point. We're watching him. To see Bettney as Ultron was fucking interesting.

I hear something about the voice, though. That can't help. The voice was... But I... The voice took a second to get used to it. Yeah, that was a bit. But yeah, no, it was awesome. An edition production from Arjuna Ramga Powell. Chuck, take us out. Vision Quest is cooking.

Chukasta didn't come to play. RIP to the gorilla. My man, MJ. Unlock unlimited free grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Shop online and get the same low, No Frills prices delivered. Get your first year of PC Express Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at no frills.ca. Hold music.

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