The Ringer-Verse - ‘What If ... ?’ Episode 2 Instant Reactions and Animation 4-on-4 | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: August 18, 2021

The Midnight Boys take a dive into the second episode of Marvel’s ‘What If ... ?’ series and weigh in on what would happen if T’Challa were to become Starlord (03:51). They also dive into nerd news about some controversy surrounding ‘Shang Chi’ and discuss the newest trailer for ‘Star Wars Visions’ (33:05). Then Jomi and Steve join in for a game 4-on-4 talking about their favorite animated media (45:53). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Producer: Steve Ahlman Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: TD St. Matthew-Daniel and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The watch is the latest and the greatest in pop culture from best friends Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. Join them as they discuss TV, movies, music, and much more. Check out the watch on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia,

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This is of course the ringer's nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. We are Van Lathen. Host of Higher Learning, Rachel Lindsay and Van Latham. We are, Sixth Steve Almid. We are Jomey, the experience. explaining I did her on. We are Coke, baby Chuck Charles Holmes,

host of the Ringer music show, and together we are of the Midnight Boys. All right, listen, we're the Midnight Boys. You guys have to follow and share the show. We're on all the social medias. That's what we do. We're very social Midnight Boys. We're up at midnight

but we're still social at midnight. It's kind of what we do. Today, we are taking a look at the highly anticipated MCU Disney Plus series What If Episode 2 is on the agenda. We're also going to talk a little bit about some of the biggest news out there

in their culture and we're going to do a very special four on four later on with animation. Because we're in the animation lane right now. When you say, Charles, a lot of things, animation is out. Animation is hot. Animation is hot. This is where I live. This is where I was born.

You know, I'm like Bain. This is the pit that I was born into. This is the pit you drew a born into? Yeah. Bain was the man. Tom Hardy doesn't get enough respect. He was hard in that. Payne was the man.

Payne was like, yo, you think darkness is your ally? Stupid bastard. I was born in there. Yeah, I didn't see the light so much later. And when I did, it was blinding. I felt so sorry for Batman. That might be a top. 10 villain speech in a superhero movie.

As he's whipping his ass. Yeah, what? Wait, really quick plug, because I need to be better at plugging stuff. Guys, we are ranking every single Drake album on the Ringer Music Show. The show is called Rank Me Later with my boy, Vans, Enemy, Big Was. That's coming out this Friday. You got to go check it out. If you think you're mad at me on The Midnight Boys, y'all are going to be mad at me

and Waz on Rank Me Later. How can you be mad ranking Drake albums? Drake can't make nobody mad. He can make Kanye mad. Maybe Kanye. That's like getting mad ranking ice cream flavors. You go in there and say, hey, Rocky Road, pistachio. Also, you guys have to look forward to Mal's deep dives into what if they come in every single Friday over there in the House of Mal.

Remember, this is an instant reaction show. As far as what Mal is doing, it's the heady, it's the analytical, it's bringing in some of the biggest brains. I think she's going to have. I think she's going to have Barack Obama on this Friday show to break down what if they get deep into it, like super smart, the smartest people in the world. Or Neil deGrasse Tyson, Kip Thorne, all of those people over there. They're doing the heady stuff. I love that show. I actually listen to that.

People think that we go out, we listen to heavy spoilers, new rock stars. No. I listen to Mal. I listen to Mal when I want the smart take. She's right across the hall. So I'll listen to her. So y'all go check that out. Okay.

Charles, you know what this means now. The pleasantries are over. We're into the podcast. You know what this means we have to do something. Hey, Steve got to roll that tape. You ready, Steve? We're getting ready to talk about the episode. You're listening to a reaction podcast.

The spoilers are coming. Okay, we are talking about what if episode two. Last time we ventured into the world of what if. It was what if Peggy Carter became Captain Carter, sort of a retelling of Captain America the First Avenger, as if Peggy Carter had taken the Super Soldier serum. This one totally different. We are now going to outer space. This is what if Tchalla becomes Star Lord.

Charles, instant thoughts about episode two of the MCUs, what if? Oh, I loved it. I really thought it worked. I really, really did think it works. episode, I was a little bit critical of the animation, the way they told the story. And I really just didn't know what they were going to do. And there's still stuff. Like the animation still isn't for me. There's other little things that I can nitpick at. But this, I said on that first episode, I'm just like, yo, a mark of a good animated show or movie is that it's going to do something

that live action can't. It's going to make me think of the world in a way that I can't. You can really, really play around. And it did all that. It made me want to be there with Tachala, this version of the ravagers, it made me laugh, it made me emotional. I really, really think that they, like, not only hit this out of the park, but it's, I was just like, why didn't they lead with this? Like, this is the stronger offering, in my opinion. The whole time, I was just like, I was very, very surprised and very, very happy by what we got.

What about you? Absolutely delightful. The MCU at its finest. The interesting thing about these what ifs are going to be not just to change characters, but to change themes. What does it mean when you take a character and what makes that character and what makes character lovable and what makes us fall in love with that character and place that character into a world where they fundamentally changed the themes of the world that we're in, right?

Star Lord, he's a guy, he's a Han Solo type guy who has to be pushed in the right direction. I mean, Han eventually, I guess, became more noble. I think Star Lord comparing him to Han Solo is giving a lot of credit to Star Lord that he doesn't deserve. Well, look, what I mean by these are guys who are first motivated. about the money. Yes, true. But really, their love and attachment to a woman kind of ends up pushing them to do the right thing more often than not, right? So I think in that way, you know, the loner, anti-hero, he's really about himself, but then he learns how to be about other people in the entire galaxy. So changing that character with the character of Tachala,

who is at his core inherently altruistic, just alters and modifies the entire Guardian's universe in the way that you saw. Like they put a king in the place of a pirate. And his regalness rubbed off and affected everyone.

And I felt like the episode did a fantastic job of showing just how amazing Tachala is, just how fucking awesome the guy is, man. It's a little sad to watch obviously at some times. But

and to see the adventures, to see the strength, to see all of that stuff, it was fun. I really enjoyed it. I really, really was delighted in seeing it, seriously. Honestly, the thing that surprised me, I went into this episode having just no expectations whatsoever, which is probably the best way to enter these what-ifs. And it made me realize, I'm like, oh,

Tichala and Star Lord are the perfect characters to swap. Because to your point, they are on opposite poles. Even their movies, like Black Panther is essentially a movie about, like, interventionism and like whether a country who is advanced should go out and help the world, whether they should share all of their knowledge and science with the world. And like throughout that whole movie, Tachala's like wrestling with that. And in this what if, you kind of get that. You get like, well, what if we took that question?

But instead of it being vibranium, instead of it being like his smarts, basically Tachal is taking, like you said, his altruism and infecting it through whoever he touches. And that's why when you see like, oh, like, Tichala, through the way he is, can change somebody like Thanos. He can make somebody come to his side. And I also like the dichotomy of like, like, I feel like the MCUs is really hate Starlord. Like the writers are just like fuck this dude.

Because like for the past couple entries, he's just been like a regular white dude. He's just like fucked up. Like, spoiler alert at the end of this. He's just like a janitor at Dairy Queen. You're just like, oh, if he wasn't not picked up by y'all, do, he wouldn't be shit. And Tachala, you're like, yo, you can place Tichala anywhere on God's green earth.

He'll triple. He'll triple his worth. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Star Lord was in there mopping up at the end of the show. I'd be honest with you.

I'm interested in where that's going to go. We'll talk more about that a little bit later. This was Chadwick Bowman's final MCU performance. I know that he's going to show up in a couple of more episodes in What If? If I'm led to believe that. He's going to show up in a couple more episodes of What If is what I heard. It's what I heard on the old. YouTube's, okay?

YouTubeians. YouTubeians. That's what we should call people who spend all day on YouTube like me. The YouTubeians. YouTubeians. But I thought he was placed really well here. The dialogue was incredibly witty.

The humor was amazing. This was probably one of the funnier moment. Like actually, it made me think of like what I've kind of been missing from the MCU in a while. Like, this is like the funniest it has been in forever. Like I, like, there was a couple moments that got me. I'm like, damn. The MCU, one.

Once you get to like the end games of things, you're talking about big, serious, incredibly high stakes, high leverage moments that the MCU is having. We did more crying in game than we did laughing. And we haven't really laughed in a while. We laughed a little bit at some things that would happen here or now. But as far as something that had the complete tone, that comedic tone, like Guardians or Thor Ragnar, we haven't been there in a little while. Not for the whole thing. The last couple things we've gotten, like Wanda Vision was heavy. Like it was an emotionally heavy show.

Like, same thing with Falcon. It's about race. Even Loki. Like, Loki had funny moments, but it was still very much a show about, like, identity. And I just didn't realize how much I miss. I'm just like, you know, I just want them to crack jokes. I want to see a family, a quirky family, like getting along, running heist, doing all that shit. So that's one thing.

I'm just like, in this next phase of the MCU, I'm like, yo, can we get back to a little bit more of the lighter side of this? You know what I mean? No, I get it. I get it. And from the opening scene that we see. Tachala facing off with Korath, which is of course a scene that was the

opening scene in Guardians of the Galaxy, it sets the tone for how this is going to go. Whereas in the opening scene of Guardians, it's Star Lord trying to convince Korath of who he is. Corath, not caring. This scene's completely different. This guy was like, I don't know

if you guys ever saw coming to America. I'm not sure if Charles has ever seen it. It's a movie that came out. Jeez, what the What the shots? God. I'm just saying. But there's a point in the movie where Annie Murphy's character,

Akeem, is at a St. John's basketball game. He's there, and he's waiting in line to go to the bathroom. And there's some guys that come by that are from his home country and know that he is actually the Prince of Zimunda. And they immediately begin to kneel and their faces light up. And they're so happy to see him because he's like a celebrity to them. That reminded me of the scene with Korath. and Tchalla, you know, inside the temple

where he's trying to get, he's trying to grab the Power Stone. Just so happy to be in his presence, so thrilled to have met the legendary Star Lord, even to get his ass kicked by him. And then, of course, we set out on our journey, which takes all kinds of twists and turns. Can I just say Korath just throughout the episode,

like who everybody who will listen, he's like, yo, man, like, I'm not trying to say this, but like, you know, me and Starlord are best friends. Every single time he said that shit, I fucking cracked up. It got funnier each and every time. It was great. Tachala also did that, I think the biggest surprise for me,

and we're going to talk about where the episode goes, but I did not see Thanos coming. Oh, no. I did not see Thanos coming. I look up, and I'm like, it's Thanos, and I keep waiting for the Thanos to become, you can't rehabilitate fucking Thanos, right? I keep waiting for Thanos to,

Thanos it up and have a plan and be diabolical. But he's not. It's so funny. And every time he's explaining his plan to people, which think about this, this is another thing that I love, instant reaction show. This is another thing that I loved.

Thanos's plan to wipe out half the galaxy, half the universe, was the driving force for an entire phase of Marvel movies, right? The driving force, it was a punchline in this show. It shows you the power of the narrative and how we can really get into another story and completely move away from things. It was a punchline.

They kept going back to it as a callback. Hey, that sounds like genocide. Oh, but it's efficient. Like, stories build on top of each other, and we're, the last layer is the one that we're always the most satisfied with. And so to take that, take that character who is like, the biggest bad of the big bads of Marvel thus far and turn him really into a lovable hero type

wisecracking guy in 30 minutes? Bravo, man. Bravo, turning him into like the embarrassing dad because at the end, like, Nebula is just like embarrassed of Athanos because like he's talked to the Dora Milagic and he's just trying to explain to anybody who listens. Like, no, no, no, you don't understand. The plan is efficient.

And the Dore Malagia is like, it sounds like genocide. And Nebula's just being like, the embarrassed are like, yo, dad, can you stop? telling everybody about this fucking dumb plan. I thought it was genius. It was actually like, we got something similar in Loki

when they were saying, like the Infinity Stones are just paperweeds. Absolutely, yeah. But to me, this was, the joke landed even more because you got to see someone, a character or a villain that you were so afraid of

for so many films, turned lovable. And I didn't think that they could do that in a 40-minute show. That was, to me, incredible. But if I have to push back on one thing, did they make Danos go out like a punk? He was, like, they, like, we learned, like,

like, Thanos was, like, beating up the Hulk. And now, like, it was, like, two Black Order goons almost got him out of here. I was just, like, the power scaling of it a little bit, felt a little off. I mean, Marvel does that sometimes. Also, do we have a definitive answer on whether or not Thanos's dismantling of the Hulk

was in any way aided by the Power Stone? Because we've, this is going back and forth. I've heard, I've heard people say that he had the Power Stone, which is why he was able to screw over the Hulk like that. But I've also heard people say that, you know, he's a soldier and a fighter Hulk is a big goon and he could have done it anyway. Wait, Jomey, Jomey the explainer, let us know.

So if you go back and you watch the two films, the gauntlet, it's explicit that you have to, he has to like, you have to, like, use his hands, right? He has to close his fist to use the gauntlet. Dr. Strange is like, make sure he doesn't close his fist so he can't use the power of the stones, right? And so during the fight, with the Hulk, that was no stones.

Boy, it was just, he just, Hulk just got his cheeks clapped. That's essentially what happened. Which is kind of weird, but look, the Hulk has been depowered throughout the, the Hulk has been disgustingly depowered throughout his entire run here in Marvel. Don't get me wrong.

Thanos, Thanos, I almost fell back into the Thanos. Thanos is an internal, and he has a ridiculous amount of power without the the stones, he's one of the more powerful. But the way he did, the Hulk was a flawless victory.

It was really fucked up. Here's my thing with the Hulk. Like, Hulk isn't even my favorite character, but like, if you read, like, comic book runs like World War Hulk,

like, Hulk's coming back to Earth and destroying every, like, no one's stopping him. So it's very funny. Like, throughout the whole MCU

people were just, like, Hulk goes out like a punk in multiple movies. Yeah, yeah. But back to your point about, about Thanos,

they flipped it. and they let Thanos get his issue a little bit. You know, the Black Order has kind of giving him the business. Although he did his thing. He did his thing. He was doing his thing. What was your favorite twist in terms of Star Lord's story in this, though? What was the favorite little tweet that they made that you really liked?

Thanos was my favorite. I would say number one. But if we're going one B, I loved Howard the Duck showing up. Whenever Howard shows up. I like Howard. I vibe with it. I'm just like, yeah, give me more Howard. I thought that, like, once again, like,

I thought that you could have stopped. with Thanos and I would have still thought it was a great perfect episode. But then you got Howard the Duck out here and I'm like, all right, y'all just showing off now. Y'all up by 20 and you're just like doing tricks now. They love just throwing Howard in there and let Howard get his shit off for a little bit. Do me a favor, Charles. Sing the Howard to Duck theme song. I don't know.

Okay. Jomey, Steve, one of you guys sing the Howard to Duck theme song? At what point did you think I watched Howard the Duck? Interesting. At what point? Really tried to get me. out here. Meanwhile, the other two Midnight boys have never seen that fucking terrible Howard the Duck movie. I've seen like five minutes of it. It's not terrible. Van, you got to understand.

We weren't born in 1945. For real, bro. Like, for real. It's not terrible. Howard the Duck. Hey, it ain't fucking done feeling. And he's on an arrow straight through my heart. Come on, Howard, the Duck. Yeah. That's the song. I hate to break to you, Van. But the other Midnight boys still have their hairlines, so we have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Yeah, it's true. Okay. You know what?

We're, I'll just like you guys know something. I'm just like you guys know something. There are comebacks. There are comebacks. Like economic comebacks. They're all kinds of comebacks. I'm not going to do it.

I'm going to tell, all I'm going to do is I'm going to play the old man game. And I'm going to say, you missed out on it. And it was great. You guys should watch the Howard the Duck movie. It was great. It was really a lot of fun. Whatever, fuck it.

Oh, Howard the Duck. Now, now, because I know the good things in life, you guys don't know that, whatever. Let's go. It's fine. It's fine. Broke asses. Did you just call it broke? No, it's okay.

To Charlo's story here. I want to talk about a couple of things. Number one, I got to give a shout out real quick to blonde nebula. My girl. Oh, she looked fantastic. She looks so good, bro. It's like the Amber Rose thing when you see Amber Rose with hair

and you're like, oh, shit. Like, wait, real quick. What? Real quick. Was Tachala tapping that? Yeah, I think so. Right? There was energy.

There was chemistry. Yeah, that was energy. It was chemistry. I kept waiting for Gammar to show up, but I guess in the trailer, I went back and watched that she's in Thanos' Thanos's armor in one of the shows. So I guess we'll get more from her,

maybe in this particular situation, because her dad didn't go on to fulfill his purpose in killing half of the universe. Maybe that's something that Gamora picks up, but she wasn't in there. She was one of the only characters that was missing. Well, no, not true. I didn't see Rocket and Groot weren't there.

Rocket and Groot weren't there. So we'll see. Maybe Rocket and Groot joined Gamora. And it's going to be Guardians against Guardians of something. Because I like to think that a lot of these episodes are going to be tied in together with the what-ifs. They're going to be one-shots, but there's going to be a common threat, whatever.

So a lot of stuff happening. A lot of theories out there. Wait, would you let somebody call you chacha? That annoyed me the whole time. I know it was a pet name. Just pet names or pet names. Chachah, really? It's just that, what do you want your pet name to be?

Like, what you wanted to be... You wanted to be something... It's a pet name. I would let Blondebloon Nebula call me whatever she wanted. All right, thirsty, Joe. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, hold on, Joe. So, Jomey, you would let blonde nebula call you whatever she wanted.

Relaxed, but, oh, whoa, jolly. Wow, there are limits. Oh, Jesus, Jomey. Damn. There are limits. Jomi said if you blonde, you can say whatever. Whoa, whoa, Jomey. You got to stop.

Were you at the Capitol? Joe. Joemy, Joe's stormed the capital. I don't mind Jomey. He's one of us. He doesn't mind it. He's one of the good ones.

He's one of the good ones. He's one of the good ones. Jomey doesn't mind it. Yeah, let him turn. Come on over here, Jomey. Jomey don't even get mad when we say it. Are we like... Real quick, before we get to our reflections on this episode,

our villainy here was the collector. Loved it. Loved it. I like that. everything about it. He was getting busy when he, when the collector popped out with the dark Elve dagger, like with the Captain America shit, all that shit. I'm like, wow, they really didn't do enough with the collector.

Yeah, well, the collector is an easy character to make a villain because he's just completely weird and sniveling and has been throughout the entire MCU. So, and we never really got as big of a hunk as of the collector as we wanted, to your point. So to see him actually have that same. type of collector energy. I don't think that was Benicio del Toro, but to see him have that same type of collector energy and actually have like be the bad guy here

because we lost all our bad guys. Oh, it was Benicio Del Toro. Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry. It didn't sound like Benicio Del Toro. I have a big problem figuring out whose voices are actually there and whose voices that they brought in other actors to play. Oh, I have to go to IMDB.

Like sometimes even the people there It doesn't sound like them So excuse me I stand corrected It was Bidio del Toro But I like that I enjoyed that I enjoyed the fact that

You know Because the collector In and of himself Is that's something weird And sinister to do So the fact that he would be there And be the one that was trying to I guess collect

Tichala Or collect the stone Made a lot of sense I dug it And another twist That I really enjoyed Was that the Black Order was out of work.

So they had to find somebody else to work for. You know, Thanos cut them loose. So they had to go and find some other people. This brings up another pepive I've had. Okay. Black Order didn't really have much to do in Infinity War. In terms of like, we were told the Black Order was like so bad and so sinister, but they collectively are on the screen for like 10 minutes.

And they don't do much. I mean, what do you want them to do? I just wanted to see them be a little bit Have a little bit more fighting prowess Like in this you saw them get busy Which confused me because I'm just like Wait two of them are taking out Thanos But like one of them had trouble with like Captain America

Black Widow That's the only part of this that doesn't make any sense So the only No So the Black Order You know Ebony Ma having Going back and forth with Dr. Strange And Spider-Man and Iron Man

And he held it down He held it down He did his thing right The only part of their MCU existence that doesn't make sense is how they essentially beat Vision and Scarlet Witch. Now, I know they snuck Vision, but they essentially beat Vision and Scarlet Witch, and then they turned around and got housed by Cap, Falcon, and Black Widow. I'm sorry. That don't make no sense. Finally, finally someone agrees with me.

And look, you can come at Van Lathen on Twitter and Instagram. I'll argue up and down. I've heard all, that don't make no sense. Cap had the element of surprise. Cap, catch the spear. That makes zero sense. Like, no sense. So that's it.

That's the only time. But in this, they're up against Danos. It's a good fight. I enjoyed that as well. So last episode, you didn't dig as much because you felt like it was essentially, swapping out of Peggy Carter for Steve Rogers and it's just a retelling of the First Avengers.

This movie is, excuse me, this episode is based heavily in Garden of the Galaxy, but it doesn't feel like that at all. No, it doesn't feel like a recap at all. At all. It feels like an entirely new, fresh story. Even the relationship between Yandu

and Star Lord in this particular one feels completely, completely fresh because they're not at odds the entire time. They're actually homeboys from the beginning, which is something that we didn't get really from the main story until the end of Guardians too. Was this an improvement? It has to be.

To make me care about the characters, to make me care about this show when, like, aesthetically, I'm so just like my brain is like, I don't want to watch this. And after like five or ten minutes, once the jokes started flying, actually it was Tachala versus Korath in the beginning. Once that made me laugh, I'm like, I'm here.

And I do think that this story, this episode also had a stronger theme that they spelled out right in the beginning. The theme of like nature versus nurture is to Chala who he is no matter where he goes. And I really, really think that works for the character. Because like Wakanda in Black Panther, the movie, like it shapes who he is. And then in this being in a galaxy, you still realize that like, Tachala is, there's a heart to that character. there's morals to that character that will never change. But the way he goes about, like the way he goes about everything is a little bit different

because we realize at the end of the last Black Panther, like he goes to the bay. And that's where he decides, oh, like I'm going to try to improve the rest of the world. And this, he's a kid. And by the time he's grown up, he's like, he's known as a Robin Hood, who's literally doing what he did in the bay,

but on like this galactic level that I was just like, oh, this was the theme, the characters, the stories, the punchlines, everything. It just worked for me. What about you? Same. It just showed his driving force

to be good can change so many things and save so many people. He literally saved trillions of lives by changing Thanos. Boy, I'm fighting with the Thanos-Tanos thing. I'm trying to do it,

I want to say Thetos so fucking bad. Yeah, bro. I'm fighting with the Thanos thing. But, you know, yeah, it's, it's a lot like, it's a lot like Captain America, Steve Rogers in that, you know, obviously that's a powered person after you take the serum, but the real power is who the character is. I just thought that this was the best example of what if because you take a character whose essence is so pure and so not just pure, but well understood. And you place it in a different world and you watch that world change around the character. I liked it. And like, I really dug it.

Couldn't agree more. And just to be honest with you, man, you forget that Chadwick is gone, you know, just because in life we move on from things. But man, we lost a lot. You know, like we lost a lot. We lost a first-rate performer, a first-rate human being, dignity, class, grace, someone that for years suffered silently. as his body and his physical being deteriorated, but still found it necessary to give us his last ounce of life force through his art.

It just hits. Like it hit. It hit. This episode felt like a celebration of that. It felt like a celebration of not just the goodness of Tachala, but a celebration of the goodness of Chadwick Boseman. So I was really into it.

Beyond the emotional part of it, Just in the clear story stuff, it was amazing. But that puts it over the top and you think about what they were celebrating. I will say that there was a magic to this episode where for the whole episode, I had forgot that Chadwick was dead because I was instantly like transported to like another time.

And like that to me was the greatest gift because until they had the little memoriam thing at the end, that's when it hit. And that's when I got emotional. But I was just like, oh, like Chadwick at the end of the day was like an entertainer. Like he had a power to transport you to another time, another space

and really make you fall in love with the character. And it was just like, that's probably the saddest thing where it's like, but at the end of that episode, I'm like, oh shit. Like he's not, he's not here. I was so wrapped up in like just hearing his voice and all the comedy and like the good time. I actually give him kudos.

This could have been a very sad affair where they tried to make it like super grandiose and super important. But it was just like, no, like give him something really, really fun to chew on for 40 minutes and, like, just make them all realize we missed. We're going to miss and we're missing out on just

a generational talent. So I agree with that. Yeah, yeah. It felt like at the end we ended up in heaven. We were back in Wakanda. Everybody was chilling together. Jokes were being cracked. It was a good feeling. I appreciate Disney and the MCU for making me feel that way. That was dope. All right,

we will be checking in on what if throughout its season with our thoughts and reactions. We are loving that. We are enjoying this. Charles, I guess for you, they're one for two. For me, they're two for two. They're one for two, but I want to say everybody, I feel like everybody's like, yo, Charles hates things.

I'm just like, no, I love things a lot. I just hate things a lot, too. And this is probably the perfect example of just like, yo, when Marvel hits, when superhero shit hits, I'm going to sing its praises. But when it does it, man, I'm pulling out the chopper. Like, that's just how it has me. There goes.

Oh, look, by the way, all of y'all, young whippersnappers, y'all need to go and watch the original how it the duck movie from the 80s now man Steve cut his mic how come y'all how come y'all feel like y'all can how come y'all feel like y'all don't have to put in the same shit you know let me tell you guys let me tell you guys something real quick all of you guys let me tell you guys something

this is not really so much for you Steve because you're a what let me talk let me talk to joaming them real quick do you know there was a time when it wasn't easy to be a blur. Now, fucking endgame comes out, makes a billion dollars. Everybody's like, I'm a nerd, I'm a nerd. I like comic books. I'm a nerd. You know, there was a time when

going to the comic store after basketball practice, people weren't feeling that. There was a time when trying to go to Comic Con's and see the bootleg copy of the Fantastic Four movie directed by Roger Corman, spending a whole summer trying to see it. People weren't fucking with that. Like it was a time when all of this stuff, endless amounts of times playing video games, pulling your money with your boys trying to get the first appearance of

fucking Bishop. You know what I mean? Like it's a time when none of this stuff was cool. Watching these move, none of it was, it was a subculture, worshiping Todd McFallelan, none of that. And for you guys to sit up right here and besmirch the fucking blurs that paved the way, that pay, The way. But y'all to sit, y'all, young asses up here and besmirch the name of Howard the Duck, Tim Robbins, Leah Thompson, Jeffrey Jones,

Howard the Duck, the movie. You don't get to do that. You don't have to answer, Charles. I've been doing this longer than you. My only response, I would like to quote one of the great bards of our time, Stephen A. Smith. We don't care. We don't.

care. All right. Well, all right, well. I want to do right now a midnight boys watch party. Midnight Boys watch party for us and all of our midnight riders out there. How are to Dr. Moon? This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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All right, let's go to Nerad News Minute's start. Kevin Feigy had to get his Sean Spicer on. Cleaning up with a big man. Kevin Feigy. All right. So there was a little controversy surrounding Shangxi. Sean Xi isn't even out yet. They premiered very recently.

Shout out to a friend of mine, Jason, who went out there to the Shang Shi premiere. But Disney CEO Bob Chapic, I guess is his name. The only Bob I know is I agree. But Bob Chapic, he described Shang Shi's release strategy as an experiment for the company. Now, I will give you the quote in full. So this happened to do, it says, as the film, it's an interesting experiment for us. He was referring to the fact that the film only has a full. 45-day theatrical window.

He said the prospect of being able to take a Marvel title to the service after going theatrical within 45 days will be yet another data point to inform our actions going forward in our titles. Now, what he's essentially talking about is the fact that you're going to get a 45-day theatrical run of Shangxi. Well, it will only be in theaters. And then after that, you're going to see it on Disney Plus Premier Access. And he says that it's an interesting experiment for Disney and Marvel.

Now, Simul Liu, the star of Shangxi, didn't fucking appreciate that. He did not, he did not like that. He came back on Twitter. This was August 14th. He says, we are not an experiment. We are the underdog, the underestimated. We are the ceiling breakers. We are the celebration of culture and joy that were preserved after an embattled year.

We are the surprise. I'm fired the fuck up to make history on September 3rd. Join us. Kevin Feige jumped into this and made sure that everyone knew okay that it was not it

he didn't Chepec didn't make mean what he said he is not a shy man I think in that particular tweet you can see and I think everyone does it's a misunderstanding

it was not the intention the proof is in the movie we swung for the fences as we always do the amount of creative energy we put in and the budget there's no expense spared to bring this origin story

to the screen. This has made a lot of people think that maybe there are some people at Marvel who are looking at Shangxi as more of an experiment, not just because of the unique release strategy behind the movie, but also maybe possibly a small bit because of

the ethnicities of the leads in the movie. Like primarily the first Marvel movie that has a primarily all agent cast. They do not like to be referred to as an experiment. Charles, your thoughts about this. Very fair. I rock with Simulu. Love him, big fan from Kim's convenience. Love that man. And I do think, like, hey, you work your whole life, get a Marvel movie, the pandemic hits, all this stuff happens. And then to hear that the CEO of Disney calls it an experiment, I would be kind of mad too. Because

I do think that, like, we know how the world works. If this movie fails, then who generally gets blamed? Who is the company like, oh, well, I don't know if we're going to try that again. And I think Simu has to stand up and be like, yo, no, like, that's not how you refer to a movie, especially one of your first Marvel movies and one of the first superhero movies in America, I believe, that has an all Asian cast or mostly Asian cast. I get it. I actually kind of give them props for most.

actors would be like, nah, I got to eat this. That's the big man up top. And him would be like, nah, I'm not, I'm not rocking with that. Kudos to him. Yeah, got to be careful. Gotta be careful. You don't want to other this. Okay, this is a Marvel movie.

It's unique because of the story. It's unique because of the characters. Don't other the movies because they're not other when it's white guys that are the leads, right? So it's not an experiment when you take a chance on a new director, like Tyco Watiti on Thorac. Rock, right? It's not an experiment thing. It's just you doing something new. It's not experiments when you do other stuff, when you step out, when your leads look, the way leads have looked all the time. It's not experiment. It's a Marvel movie with a different flavor to it. Okay. It's a different movie,

different story. All right. So I don't, I personally think that this was a misunderstanding. I think that this was probably a CEO who speaks and business speak. But this is another reason why that business speak and cultural speak oftentimes don't mesh well. He's talking about, hey, this is unique because we want to know if this is going to work in the release schedule, in the release strategy. And, you know, nobody wants to other this movie, though, especially not the stars. They don't want to be other. This is a Marvel film.

It's a Marvel film like any other Marvel film. It's got the same budget. Should have the same push. It should be given the same chance. And I think that's what the Lee was trying to say. And I think that the point was well taken. And Faggie seems to have gotten a point. Faggie seems to have gotten a point.

So there you go. a little bit of controversy, not bad though. A little bit of control. Contrault. Is this the limit of representation? And what I mean by that is like I personally like when at the peak of this Black Panther, all this stuff, more diversity, I was always like, look, we always got to be careful when like corporations start throwing around the word representation because like I don't actually

think it means that much unless you're really willing to not only invest in it, but like think holistically about what. it means to have an all-black film or an all-Asian film or to have a woman in the lead and how you need to market that, how people even behind the scenes, to investors need to talk about that. And I'm getting to the point where it's just like there are going to be more movies like this in the Marvel slate. And I do think Marvel's getting tripped up a little bit about trying to communicate that, no, these movies are not different than everything we've done before. Like you said, let's not try to other this thing.

And it's getting a little sticky. Okay. So if the MCU fails, if the MCU begins to fail, loses what it's built over the last 13 some odd years, it will be because of diversity. And it won't be because of diversity in the sense that the overall quality of these movies will fall off. or the stories won't be as good or the active performances won't be as good.

It'll be because there's a different standard in America when people aren't white. So if this movie comes out and it's as good as Ant Man or it's as good as Dr. Strange. The fact of the matter is that people like Benedict Cumberbatch and perhaps Paul Rudd a little bit better than they like the lead here.

They're a little bit more familiar with those guys, a little bit more comfortable with them. So you slide in on the movie. Like we talk about how bad Thor the Dark World was, right? Or you talk about how bad Thor the Dark World was. But that had been a black lead

in that movie. It's a completely different situation. We're accustomed to the MCU being a successful franchise, being a successful filmmaking experiment. but this will test the limits of the audience. What we've seen from the MCU before, it worked because it was safe. Big, strong white leads.

You go out there and you make the movies. Some of them are great. Some of them are good. Some of them are, eh. All right, but we're going to see how much rope the audience and the film going public gives these same movies to find themselves, these characters, movies to find themselves, you know what I mean? Thor didn't really find himself to his third movie.

You know what I mean? So we're going to see how much leeway these people give these other characters to find themselves when they look a little bit different. And if they don't, because remember, if you're a comic book fan, you're not new to this at all. Why don't we have better characters that are black? Why don't we have more characters that are black? Who's creating these characters? You know, like where are they coming from? Like, why don't, why is there no character that resonates for in America, like Superman, Batman, somebody like that?

And there's two reasons. One is because it's more difficult for somebody outside of the culture to write characters that are true to form and really represent a different culture. And secondly, the audience isn't as receptive to them. No, not the combo green. And, like, if we're being clear, the thing that they're not as comic fans, I think we're going to give them a little bit more leeway. but the public right not is like, let's be clear. Shang Chi does not have like decades of good comic books. No, he doesn't.

Decades of racist comic books. And in modern times, they've tried to like massage that. Same thing with like the Falcon. The Falcon is whack in comic books. Like he does not have decades worth of good stories. I'm just being 100% real. So for the movies, for the MCU to massage these characters and get them to a place, to your point,

I don't know if they're going to give Shang Chi two movies like they did Thor, three movies to find himself. You know what I mean? It's harder. Like, Thor has good comic books. Shang-Chi doesn't. Like, Black Panther, if we want to be real, Black Panther has some good comics,

it ain't much. You know what I mean? Black Panthers has some good runs, but he's not like what you would consider to be a top-tier. He's not top-tier. Like, it's not like Spider-Man-level runs. You know what I mean?

You got some good runs, though. He's got some good runs. But no, I'll just know, but you're right. You're right. And it's a risk. And it's one that has to be national. navigated with, you know, a fine-tooth comb. You got to be careful.

I think Fahy knows that. I stand with my man, Simu. I'm your biggest fan, my man. I'm going to be out there on the front lines, Delta and all, see this movie. I want all the midnight, well, actually, midnight writers, be safe. If you have to wait 45 days,

feel free to wait 45. But if you got a mask and you feel good at your little theater, I'm not going to tell you to do nothing. Do whatever you want. Do whatever. Well, do whatever. Man, stay in the goddamn house.

I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say anymore. I thought this thing was over. Man, this thing came bounce back up like round ball, baby. It's shit, bounce back like round ball, man. God damn. All right, Star Wars Vision trailer came out. New Anthology series in the Star Wars universe.

It is anime style. What did you think of the trailer? The trailer was epic. The trailer actually made me think. I'm just like, why wouldn't they just do this level of animation for all the shit? Like, after watching, like, what if? I know people like the Clone War. and rebels,

and I like them too story-wise, but after watching some of the shit that they're doing in this trailer, I'm like, this is another level, bro. Like, this is another level. I don't know if I'll end up caring about the stories, but just visually, it was sick.

Yeah, you remember what I said when I said that, like, sometimes I don't like when they take other things and make it in the anime style? Remember I said that about Batman? I felt that way when I watched this trailer for the first time, but then after there's something about the story,

Wars universe that lends itself to this. It seemed like a natural sort of deal here. And I really enjoyed it. So I'm looking forward to it. We're in the animation space. I'll tell you, a lot of these places, a lot of these stories, you can do more with animation than you can with getting a bunch of actors together and going crazy on some of these stories.

Star Wars, in it of itself, is faring a lot better in the animation space right now than it is in live action, for sure. But here's the thing, to your point, like, the reason I think the anime might actually work stylistically is because when you think about it, like Star Wars is essentially a samurai tale. It's like a based on like Akira Kurosawa films and just like lightsabers and honor and all of like Jedi are basically samurai. So I do think that like if you watch the trailer again, you're like, oh, like this makes sense. This is a full circle comic moment. Like George Lucas took something that was like baked in like Japanese like martial arts and samurai films made it

into sci-fi. And now the sci-fi is going kind of back to the source. So I think it's going to be even if it's not entertaining, it will be beautiful to watch. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business.

So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzoo chantilly cake.

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In honor of this exciting Star Wars trailer, we want to play a little bit of four-on-four. Now, we played three-on-three last week, video game adaptation. So now we're doing 4-on-4 with animation. Jomi and Steve, you guys want to explain to the people what the rules are here today? What are we doing? What's going on?

Sure. This is in the spirit of last week, our fun three-on-three, but now it is four-on-four. It's a collection of favorites, one-pick per category, per each person. We've got four categories now based on animated films, favorite animated film, favorite animated TV show, favorite Saturday morning cartoon. This is a bit more of a spiritual category, after school specials, something like that. And favorite anime.

Are you telling me right now down here that for the favorite Saturday morning cartoon, it doesn't have to be a cartoon? No, no, no, no. It's a cartoon. It doesn't necessarily need to be happening on Saturday mornings. Like, even appeared on Friday.

Like, I think Avatar was on Friday. Yeah, if you were watching it after school as a kid, something like that, in that same vein. All right, but before we get into this question, quickly, can you explain to the audience? There was a little ruckus in the Midnight Boys group chat because Steve and Jomey broke up their partnership and I truly want to know what the fuck happened. Steve's an old man. Essentially is what we found out. I was trying to be simple about this. I mean, let's be honest. Let's be honest. Look, Steve, we, Steve and I had, you know, had to

separate due to creative differences or the fact that Steve is creatively older than I thought he was. It's more, yeah, we suffer from chronological differences more than creative ones. So we'll show our age here, as I'm sure Van will, as I'm sure Charles will. Steve was talking about Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, and I was like, bro, what? Jeez, cheese, man. So batting order remains the same. It will go Van, Charles, Jomey, then myself. Favorite animated movie for me,

Transformers the movie from 1986. That's dope. Let me tell you guys something. Rest and peace to my man, Hot Rod. All right. My guy, I love you, Hottie. You're my man.

I keep waiting for them to bring Hot Rod back and put them in one of these movies. I don't know why they won't do it. All right, Hot Rod, rest and peace to Hot Rod. man, optimist blamed himself. Let me say something. Like, Optimus Prime, to me,

is one of the greatest leaders in the history of the world. Oh, 100%. And it was on full display in this movie. I can't tell you guys how excited we were. We were doing the little dance. He was like, we're going to see the Transformers. You know what I mean?

I was six years old. We'd go see the Transformers movie in theaters. You know what I mean? And we saw it. It was amazing. I really enjoyed the movie. I wanted to be honest with you, the Transformers reboot, the live action one.

I wanted it to be a shot for shot, a remake of the 1980. I really thought it was for a second. Did you cry? Did you cry when Optimus died? Yeah, it was tough. And see, here's the thing about Optimus Prime dying and that. You're a kid.

How about that? How about I'm six years old? How about we go to the movie Optimus Prime dies and, like, I'm six? No, Hot Rod's fault. you know, the whole deal. So, like, my, you know, my thing is, looking back on it, there's not a movie that affected me more. That's why I love it so much.

I'm going to go with arguably, arguably, not only one of the greatest animated movies of all time, but one of the greatest movies of all time, period. And I have to go with Miyazaki San's spirited away. Damn it. Classic movie. Got him. Got him.

Got him. Classic. Yes. Like, it just, it is, every single time I've learned something. new from it. The animation is some of the most beautiful stuff I've ever seen. The story on the edge of your seat, you will cry, you will laugh. It is, what more can you say about Spirit and Away, man? I'm sorry, Steve. It's a perfect movie. No, and it would have been my first pick. I knew that you would have picked it, and it's a beautiful pick. What I can say is, like,

it says a lot about, I've seen a lot of Miyazaki movies, and it says a lot about your favorite Miyazaki movie. Ultimately, it becomes your first. The first one, that you see is probably your favorite. And that was the first one that I saw. And it was stunning. I was blown away. I didn't know that movies could do what that movie did. Not even

just animation alone. Just like the story that you could tell with a movie like that is incredible. And it's something, it's some of the most perfect filmmaking I've ever seen. A perfect pick. Van and Jomey are looking at us like... No, no. I'm out. I'm...

That's cool. Rodham is Prime, baby. Rodham is Prime. I'm outside. No, it's just a great, it's a great pick. A movie, it's a special film. I remember singing as a kid in just being like mesmerized by the visuals. I didn't really understand what's going on, but I just like, this is really pretty. And so, you know, listen, all right, I was, 1996. What did you want for me, Steve? Did you want me to get into the complexities of the film? No, man, I was just like, wow. Jomey's about to pick Shrek. First off. No. Actually, I'm really surprised this fell to me on the board. I thought for sure you take this. Charles. But the best, you know, one of the best animated films of recent years

and one of the best superhero films in recent years into the Spider-Verse. God. It's my pick. Yeah. Great, great. Great pick.

Great, God. I mean, like, you guys are too on a nose. Not, no, but listen. No, man, it's so good. Like, when it came out, we were, I was excited personally because, you know,

Miles Morales was cool to me. Read the comics. I was like, yo, you know, Afro Latino Superman. Like, let's get it. The trailer drops, I think, like, 2018 or something, like December

and I'm like, yo, this is, this looks cool. Like the visuals, whatever. And then I remember, I saw it three times in theaters. Like, it was that good. That movie was that good. And so, yeah, easy. Go into the spot of it. I cry. I cry every single

time I watch it. I cried five times. I cried five times when I first saw. I mean, come on. Easy, Steve. And no, for real. I was. Easy. Easy. Sick bastard. There's some, like, they do some stuff in the film that, like, like, if you rewatched a couple of times, just like, like this, like one second of, like, nobody's speaking, but you see a look on like Peter B. Parker's face and Gwen's face. You're like, it just adds a layer of depth. Like, I don't, like, you don't really see in like animated films, you know, for the most part. I'll tell you exactly when. It's that moment when Miles is webbed up behind, in his dorm room and his dad's behind the door. And he can't speak and his dad's just telling him like, oh my God. And he's like, oh, my God. And he's like, I love you and you don't have to say anything back.

And like he wants to say it and he can't say it. I was like, fuck. That scene and then the scene where they're at, they're in the shed and they're like trying to get, trying to get Miles to fight and he can't do it. And then they just start like, hey, man, he can't do it. And then he disappears and goes up the thing. And the music starts playing and they shoot,

they go back to Miles or they go back to Peter and Gwen and the look on their face of just like, dang. And it just hits you. you. It's a special movie. It's a special movie. And so, yeah, one of the, one of the best animated film. So that's why I'm rocking with. That's my pick. All right, Steve. What do you got?

Okay, well, I'm going to get lame because one of my picks was just blindsided. But it's okay. I love this one probably since I was a kid and you go back to it and it just warms your heart and I can't, I can't argue it. It's the first toy story. It's one of my favorites. Oh, that's a dark question. I love that.

It's beautiful. It's perfect. Like, I can't. I can't argue with anything that keeps Tim Allen employed. Well, maybe a few things, but it's great. Tom makes this beautiful. Woody's great. They're best friends. It's a wonderful adventure.

And, you know, enough said. Tim Allen's a snitch. Tim Allen's 69. Yeah. Tim Allen, 69. Tim Allen's a snitch. We don't do, we don't, we don't play no snitch. We don't get, maybe you know, we don't get help improvement.

You know what I'm saying? We don't get Toy Story. We don't get last name standing. Home improvement was a lot to me as a kid. You know who didn't get none of that? The motherfuckers that Tim Allen locked up because they were in a game. And they couldn't watch any of that shit.

You wouldn't do the same thing, though? You wouldn't do the same thing? Look, I'm not getting involved in those stuff like that. So I don't know what, but I'll tell you what, snitch. Tim Allen's a snitch. You got snitch about if you're not outside. I'm not, I'm not, no. Hell no.

I watch movies. All right, next category. Favorite animated TV show, Van. This is easy. Thunder. Thunder. This is the oldest fucking thing. Thunder.

Thunder cats. Yo. At the dawn of animation. Jesus Christ. That's how I know Van is oldest shit, because I had to watch a reruns. Dund. Thunder cats are loose. Let's do it.

Thunder, Thunder, Thunder, Christ the life. So here's the thing, Van. Here's the thing. You're talking about the 80s version, right? Yeah, yeah, of course. Because Thunder Yats have had a lot of iterations, and I've seen a couple of them,

and they've actually been quite good. They've had a lot of iterations. But look, this is easy. This is hard for me because, like, I grew up in the era of real Saturday morning cartoons. You guys didn't really have it. I'll tell you why. We definitely had it, but whatever.

You guys didn't have, you guys didn't have Saturday morning cartoons. Like, we had them. You didn't. Clearly. cartoons on Saturday morning, not really, not as much. I'll tell you why.

I know when it stopped. Real quick, saved by the bell killed Saturday morning cartoons. Because after saved by the bells, I was watching cartoons on Saturday morning and then it was cartoons and then it was saved by the bell.

All of a sudden, saved by the bell started popping off and then we'd give you two saved by the bells. Come on back to back. Then all of a sudden, it was saved by the bell, fucking California. dreams.

Yeah. And then it was saved by the bill, two saved by the bills, California dreams, fucking hang time. Oh. And then like you're going, it's city guys with,

like, all of this. It's like all of these things, and it got taken over by shows. Shows took over. But Thundercast was amazing. It was a golden age. Thundercast was dope. Even though I don't think Thundercast

came on Saturday morning, came on afternoons. But he, man, was in that era. I loved Camp Candy. During the era, John Candy had his own fucking, the karate kid had their own cartoon. Mr. T's cartoon, which people diss now,

I thought it's fucking phenomenal. Some would say Mr. T was washed by then, but, man. Nah, that cartoon had nothing to do with Mr. T. He was the leader of a gymnastics team. Do you remember that? And they solved mysteries. That was the cartoon. They solved mysteries.

But by far, my favorite, Um, Mumura, Mamma Ra! My favorite of all time. Shout to Panthers. Shout out to Tigris. Shout out to all of these guys. My guys are living in.

Chitara, Wiley Kid and Wiley Cat. Dunder Castle, my favorite cartoon ever. Wait, was your mom worried about you for having a crush on Chitara? Not really. My mom bought me the sword, the Lionel Sword.

That's a cool sword. And you put it there and like the eye would like light up. and like dudes who come over to the crib they were like, man, can we play with the short? I was like, get your broke ass. Routherless. Away from my shit.

That's my shit. The sword that your mom bought, by the way. Yeah, whatever. So what? Oh, she had to work an extra shift. Give me that sword. We're all broke at six. But that was my favorite cartoon.

That still remains my favorite cartoon to this day. All right. If we're going to go in nostalgia pick, I had something in mine that was more modern, but I'm going to go a nostalgia pick. Probably the first cartoon that made me love cartoons, I have to go with the Rugrats. Tommy was a G.

Chucky was his best friend. Filming with it. You're really getting Jomey upset. It is just a perfect, perfect cartoon. Like I know a lot of older people like, but SpongeBob, but Blah, blah. I'm like, no, like Rugrats laid the foundation for it. Oh, man.

It really just, oh, man, I want to be here today without Rugrats. That's my pick. as well, Tommy Pickles, that's your boy. Hey, man. He went out sad on Nick Week to SpongeBob. I was, I was sick. Hey, I mean, if you, if you know, you know that somebody tried to, try to rig the polls for your boy. Somebody went.

Somebody went. Yeah. I was trying to give him the votes on dot com. And he can't let that slide. He was stuff in ballads online. He really was. He should. Like, as much as I do love SpongeBob, as much as I really, really do love SpongeBob,

I feel like we grade SpongeBob on a massive curve. But that's like a, that's a, that's a debate for another day. Yeah. Yeah, we get, we get our argument another time, another time. It's not the place. Wow. Y'all really, so I had two picks here, but I, I got to, you know, I got to do the Jomi thing. And I got to rock with the squad, team avatar.

I'm picking Avatar last airbender. Of course, Joe. You feel me? Like, course. I mean, I mean, we go, we're going to see what Steve speaks. But y'all left me with two choices, but I got to rock with, got a rock with. Gotta Rock with Avatar, man. You all know, I mean, everybody who's ever seen me tweet knows how much that show means to me.

Just as a, like as a child watching it like as 12, 13 years old, the themes and, you know, stories that they tell are really, you know, really adult. They talk about imperialism. They talk about war and how that affects children, how that affects lives, you know. And rewatching it over quarantine, I was just like, dang, bro. Like, I was really just, I was just taking this in as a little fun store where, oh, this guy needs to go save the world. But like, you look past, you know, past the first layer. And it's like really deep. And man, it's just truly a special offering.

And if you go to the ringer.com, you can write, read the piece I wrote about how special it is. Show me with the plug. Listen. Listen. But in all seriousness, it's a truly special show, one of the best animated shows we might ever see. And so, yeah, of course I'm going to pick it right here. Come on, now. What are you talking about?

Team Avatar, Gang for Life. What you mean? Wait, before we go to Steve Spick, what is the chance that the Netflix, the Netflix show is going to be good? I give it like 20%. How much time do you have? Oh my God.

There's, there's just so much that worries me. Like, okay, so here's the thing. Not to get into it, but like we see the casting, right? And, you know, all right for a show. I don't know those actors quite well to be, just be straight with you, but I'm not going to, you know, judge them just off looks and just, you know, I haven't seen them act yet.

You know what I'm saying? But the fact that the creators left due to creative differences, just that's not. That never is like, that's going to work. You know what I'm saying? And so we'll see. My fear is that they try to do more with Zuka and Katara. And, man, I don't know, man. Jomi's real stressed.

He's real stressed. I don't know how you're going to sell that, man. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But hey, I will say Avatar's Legacy is about to be in the dirt if they fuck up too, I've actually been in a decade, bro. It's going to be hard to get this agenda across, like, to be frank with you.

Like, how I'm supposed to write this agenda? I love Avatar, but, man. But, you know, Steve, what's your pick? All right. I'll make it quick because it's easy. It's simple. It's beautiful. It's perfect.

We talk about how much we love superheroes, and this is the purest interpretation of any superhero that's probably been the most beloved ever. Batman, the animated series. God damn. You can't go wrong. It's a good pick. It's, and it's, I tell you,

why it's my favorite animated TV show. It's because when I think of Batman, I don't think of anything else, but that. That's nuts. That's nuts. But that's a good thing. No, if I want to talk about what I want to see out of Batman, it's that Dime Store Detective novels. It's the all-black backgrounds from, like, those animation panels of, like, long cityscapes of Gotham.

It's the... Stop trying to act like you want to see anything all-black. You know, you know. Damn, man. Like, let me and Steve get all late. Why do I do that, man? What are you doing? Like, what a hater.

Now, I'll be honest with you, but the way he's, he is describing something that I think is the reason why that show is so timeless. Because that is the, I wouldn't say that it's the way that I think of Batman, but it is the essence of the character,

for sure. And they were able to capture that in a way that really, not other Batman, not much other Batman media has. It's the essence of the character. That was the other one. when I was deciding between

because even growing up watching, you know, picking that up late. I was like, dang, man. Yeah. That put Batman on the map for a lot of us. So, yeah, just a truly special show. All right. On the favorite Saturday morning cartoon, Van,

this is going to be really important. Here's the thing, man. Think about when I was watching cartoons. Yeah, they didn't have TVs back then. You had to listen on the radio. You saw these after newsreels in the movie theater. Yeah, they were in the, Cave, cave paintings, you know.

You guys are being very insensitive. Okay. It's like, it's our fault. I'm sorry. Can I ask you a question real quick? Do you guys know what Hannah Barbera is? Yes, man. Yes.

Okay, I'm just making sure. God, damn. I'm making sure that you guys know. I can't remember the name of the cartoon, but there was a Hannah Barbera. Great endorsement. Ringing endorsement here. So look, there was a Hannah Barbaria cartoon.

I think it was Yogi Bear and his gang. Yogi's Ark-Lark. Yogi's Ark-A-Lark. Yogi's Ark-A-Lark. They fall around in this big art and it could fly. It had like a helicopter propeller on top of it. But you know why? But you know why I don't remember the title of it?

It was because I used to watch it all the time so much. And it never really, it didn't have like an intro thing. It was just pop on. It was Yogi's gang. It was Yogi. It was Yogi's little pass. It was the fucking The depressed dog

I forget what his name was They were all there It was all the Hannah Barbaric characters And they had all They had adventures together Hold on real quick Got Charles and Steve I just want you to give me the year

You think this show aired Just don't like guess I'm looking at it right now And it's shocking Charles give a shot I'm gonna say like 1965 1979 Yeah

It was still coming on 1773. Series ran for two years, and in 1977 it was re-broadcasted syndicated weekday series. Yeah, they come on. Yogi's gang, baby. Wow.

Yogi's game. I did not anticipate that. Yogi's Arkalark. Yogi's gang. It used to fuck with it. This is where you're alone because anybody else that watched this show does not use social media,

so they would not interact with this. Yeah, for real. This is wild. All right. Charles, let's hear it. Fuck you guys. Yo, if this is, if Batman, the animated series is like,

the Beatles, like the Beatles of Saturday morning cartoon, this is like the Rolling Stones. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-na-na-na-na-na-N-A-N-A-N-N-A-N-N-A-X-Men, the animated series. I was in high school. That shit was the flyest cartoon ever. Like, like Batman, yes, Batman animated series classic. I think it, like, story-wise is better. But, like, if we're talking about just, like, as a kid, like, the theme song was amazing, like, just when they were all fighting, I was just, like, in the theme song when,

The X-Men and the Brotherhood of Even Munants were running against each other. Like, everything about this. I wanted to be Gambit so bad. Gambit was so cool. I had the biggest crush on Rogue. It was, the whole show is perfect. You guys got time for like a little mini sidebar. It's very, like, quickly.

Yeah, we got, we're running up, but yeah. Quickly. So we went to a lock-in. The show came out when I was like in the seventh grade. And the lock-in was from Friday night to Saturday night. And so when we went to these lock-ins at Christian Life Academy It was about two things. Stand up all night eating pizza and then also being around girls.

You know what I mean? It's like a church lock-in. We're at the lock-in and we ate peace all night, play video games all night, whatever, we had gone to sleep. And these girls had said they were going to come over to where we were going to hang out with them. I was young and some other kids and stuff like that, but I told them no. I said, I have to go home. and I have to watch X-Men the animated series.

Incredible. It was coming on at like 8.30. And I'll never forget the look on my homeboy's face. He looked at me. He was like, Van, are you being fucking serious right now? I was like, yeah. I was like, no, I got to go home.

My dad coming to pick me up. I got to watch X-Men. And so I left and I went home and watched it. By the way, I was in middle school when that show came on. this was not like I was a cartoon this was like I was about to turn like 13 in a couple of months after the show came on but yeah and then they

called me X-Man all the way up to like the fifth grade yeah if I was your homeboat we might have to fight I'm like dog like dog this is the easiest like what are you doing man damn Jobby what do you got I'm gonna go with my head on this one instead of my heart I'm gonna go with Scooby-Dooby-Doooooo! Wow

yeah man I wasn't expecting that yeah bro it's not Saturday more it's not Saturday more It's not Saturday morning? We're allowing this. We're allowing it. There's been a lot of Scooby-Dews that have been on on Saturday mornings.

I'm going to allow it. You got to be very specific about this era of Scooby-Doo because Scooby-Doo has been around for a long time. I mean, it's got, it's the OG stuff. Not a pup named Scooby-Doo. That was my theme. Not what's new Scooby-Doo? Well, listen, I'm not going to lie to y'all.

I'm not outside like that. I haven't. You clearly are not. I thought it was the same thing. No. You got to be wrong. Real specific when you talk about Scooby-Doo. I didn't take me.

Wait, are you talking about what's a new Scooby-Doo? They started rolling out Scooby-Doo variants. Bro, they started rolling out Scooby-Doo. It's like, it's the Nike, bro. You got the Jordan 1s. You got the Jordan 2s. Which one you pick in, bro? No, man.

Oh, gee, the one where, like, oh, man, it's Mr. Johnson. I want to got away with it as the one for these kids and you're snickling dog, too. you know what I'm saying? Like, God damn, Mystery Machine, Daphne, Velma,

you know, what I'm saying? Fred, Shaggy, you know what I'm saying? Just standard stuff. You know, come on,

the hell of that. The OG, I didn't know we was out here doing variants of the thing, bro. I'm gonna let it slide, Joe.

I'm gonna leave it. It's a great pick. It's a very fun show. I'm just gonna roll with the OG because that's the one I remember the most, the OG stuff

that they would show, you know, um, boomerang, you know, in the, in the mornings. But yeah, I didn't know we was out here doing Scooby-Doo.

I didn't know they had more than one Scooby-Doo series. Y'all got to pull me on. Come at us with different Scooby-Doo's. Oh, my gosh. All right, Steve, what are you picking? All right, this is going to be my, this has been my staple, probably since I was an absolute little kid. Animaniacs. Oh, man.

It's good. It's so good. It's a anima-maniacs. I found out recently that Stephen Spielberg produced it, and he was on this big kick with WB. Tiny tunes and animaniacs. Amazing. Wait, you found out recently. That was the whole fucking point of it.

Okay. When I was a kid, I wasn't looking at the... Dan, you were like 25 when it had. I'm sick. That was a Steven Spielberg presents was the whole fucking thing. It was like the biggest fucking deal about it, man.

Well, see, Van, you knew that because you went to the library and with your dial-up internet and looked it up. No. No, library. Why don't you put that R in there, my friend? You're an educated man. But like, but... Man is coming off.

the ultimate old head this episode. I'm like, I am. Like, it's so funny. He was like, Steven Spielberg. That was like a huge thing. I was like a big deal. I know,

but to me, I didn't, when I was a kid, I didn't know who Steven Spielberg was until I saw like six of his movies. But no, it was incredible. They did the,

the countries of the world song. Yeah. All of the United States, Canada. That's great. Like, just so many incredible bits. And it was like one of those ones where like, probably the best iteration of,

like a modern era luny tunes with completely new characters. Like topical, political, pop culture bits. It was great. They did one where, they did one where, remember he was stealing?

Do you remember when they did where he was stealing Albert Einstein's intellect? Yes, yes, yes. So that he could do the thing. And then he got an F on his paper anyway because Einstein wasn't good at math. Yeah.

I love that. Just a backstory. This is where Stephen and I split up. This is where we split ways. Because I had no idea. Wait, what? Jomey, you never watch Animaniacs?

I know, yeah, I've never watched it. I know of the Animaniacs, but I've never watched anime. Are you 10, Jomi? Like, how old are you to do? No, I feel. Nah, niggas, stay on that side. No. Nah, stay on that side.

All right, this is the last one? The last one, favorite anime. Best anime. There's one anime that I love. It's the story of the 100 Man. Slayer, one of my favorite characters of all time. His name is Guts.

Yo. And the story is fucking berserk, baby. Wow. All right. Hawking it up. Look, back in the day, I was really into Dragon Ball Z, right? Dragon Ball Z, dragging it up. All that stuff. We had lock-ins,

even in my 20s, at Spaceport there in Baton Rouge. We go to Spaceport. We play video games all night at Spaceport. And then, Reg will put Dragon Ball Z up. I was 22 years old. Reds would put Dragon Ballsia. Is it really a lock in when you're 22? Or is that just a hang? And so it's a lock-in. We had pizza and we played Marvel versus Capcom all night. I literally have blisters on my hands. That's how much Marvel versus Capcom we play all night long.

Anyway, and they go, yo man, I know that you don't, if you really want getting some shit, bro, you should get on this berserk. And I went over to Irving in the house and we started watching berserk crazy. Fuck with it. I haven't watched very much anime. But of the anime that I've watched, I have to be on antidepressants now that I'm watching Attack of Titan,

attack on Titan. It was very depressing. But Berserk is by far my favorite. Wow, I was not expecting that. Preserk is great. All right, I'm going off the reservation, guys. This pick means a lot to be between the manga and the anime. If they had a choice, they're like,

would you have Batman over this anime? I would pick this anime manga. It has to be One Piece. One Piece is the greatest. anime manga of all time. Americans don't know anything about that, but Luffy and the gang, the Straw Hat Pirates, oh, man, there's a reason

it's the most popular comic book in the world. It is the most beautiful story. Tony-Ti chopper shout-out. Sanji, Zorro. I fucking love One Piece. It's my home screen. See, I don't get any of the references you're making, but I do know that my brother,

he's got like a pirate flag in his room from One Piece. Like, One Piece is... because you got to get on the wave. Actually, I can't tell anybody to get on it because, like, this story has been going on for 17 years. There's like a thousand episodes. I don't have, who has to time?

It's like, you got to devote your whole life to this shit. You got to quit your job, since I was in middle school, bro. Like, I'm now, like, older than the characters in the thing. And it's been going on for like 17, 18, 20 years. I don't know. There's no way. One piece is amazing.

I'm going with one piece. That's a good, that's a solid pick. Um, for me, uh, there's only one pick that I could honestly make. It was the first anime ever watched Neon Genesis Evangelion. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Getting into more sad shit.

Listen, and I will tell you the story. So I did not watch anime growing up. Like, that was just not a thing. I didn't get into Nami. I didn't get into Dragon Ball Z. Naruto, none of it. Right? I wasn't outside. Right. And so when I see NGE coming on Netflix, I was like, hey, this looks like a cool mecha anime. You know what I'm saying? Like Power Rangers

type stuff. Some kids learning to figure it out, man. I'll take it out, man. You know, let me try something new, you feel me? I wasn't doing nothing. I was unemployed at the time. Let me just, you know, let me dive in. I wasn't, I wasn't the same for like a week. It's like watching that Bo Burnham special. Like, you just need to like take a minute and like be sad for you know what I'm saying? The last episode that I had to watch the movie, I had an existential crisis. I was in college. I was like, what is life? What is it about? I don't know anything about it. No, you just got to watch it. I can't ruin it. Neon Genesis Evangelion.

It's on Netflix. I cannot begin to explain what this thing is about. And here's the thing. Even the creator is like very vague about what he thinks it means. Because he's like, I'm not really sure. I've rewatched it like two or three times at this point. And I could not even explain the plot to you. I honestly can't get past Toji getting in the Ava because after that he's just like,

it's just too much. And I cannot go back and watch, rewatch end of Evangelion. because that last third is just, oh my God. Like, we'll break your brain. So, but yeah, but you know, that was my entry into the genre. So I'm rocking with Neon Genesis Evangelion, man. You love to see it. You love to see it.

See, bring us home. It's going to be probably a basic pick. It shows my love for the Saturday and, like, evening, Tunei block, Cowboy Bebop. It's easy. Love it. It's breezy. It's cool. Love it.

there's really, and here's the thing, you don't need to quit your job in order to see the whole series because it's like a dozen episodes and then it's, that's it. It turned me on to like jazz music when I was a kid, like in an earnest way. Yeah, that intro, nice.

I'm excited for the Netflix show, like an actually like, hopefully knock wood, good adaptation of that. There's nothing that really got me going like the bumpers on Tunei hearing the block of Cowboy Bebop coming up at 11. And then I'm not going to make it to 3 a.m.

to watch Bleach or whatever the fuck. So I had to watch Cowboy Bebock. Bleach is whack. You wasn't saying enough to watch Full Metal Alchemist, bro? No, brotherhood, maybe, but yeah. That shit's terrible. Brotherhood is good, though. Brotherhood's good.

Brotherhood's good. Van is just like, what are y'all nerds? Like, I've never seen Van look at me. Like, I'm more nerdy than he is. He's looking at us. Like, what are you all talking? No, I'm interested. I'm going to watch some of this stuff.

When you guys tell me to, when you guys, I'm not, I'm not watching Cowboy Bebop. It was a weed thing in college. I'm not fucking with it. But no, no, like Cowboy Bebobbop. I'm not fucking with Cowboy Bebop. What was the, remember Afro Samurai or whatever that show was? Yeah.

I made up my mind to never watch it. Why? Just because. It's good. I mean, that's such a weird stance that you have. I saw, I'm telling you, I saw, I was looking at it. I saw it come on. And then I went, no.

Vin, you're out here telling us to watch the fucking Howard the Duck movie and you won't watch Afro Samurai or Cowboy Bebobo. Well, that's different. What's different? Please, explain us what's different. The two of them are very good, and the other one is asked? So can I ask you a question? In any one of those things that you're talking about,

does a very eligible fine at the top of her game, human white woman have a romantic relationship and a real kinetic sexual energy with a duck. No, and that's their selling point. There you go. So, like, you had Leah Thompson who looked really good, and she was kind of, you know, getting flirt with the duck man.

All right, we're out. Look. All right. We made our picks, and now it's time for you guys to decide who you think has the best animation block. Is it Van? Is it Charles? Is it Steve? Or is it me, Joe Me? follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Ring ofverse

and join our Facebook group at the Ring of Verse on Facebook and peep the channels because we will be asking you who you think is the winner of this week's 4 on 4. We appreciate all the Midnight Boys. Of course, our producer is Steve Alman.

Our social producer is Jomi D'Explanar on. Next week, more what if. Make sure that you check in with Mal on the House of Mal on Friday. A lot of stuff coming your way. We're going to end up doing a special episode on Shang Shi.

There's a lot of stuff about it. By the way, I want to point out to one thing. We hear all of the stuff that you guys tell us that we need to cover. We hear it all. I propose that we do an episode, just called the other stuff. Well, we talk about some of the other stuff that people are into. Because people keep saying, hey, Van, I'm watching this. Hey, Van, are you watching that?

Hey, Van, are you watching this? Are you guys watching that? And they want to hear what we think about it. but a lot of times we don't have time to get around to it because there's just so much content out there. But we should do an episode on the other stuff. What, like Titans and shit and all the other stuff? Yeah, people keep talking about Titans.

I'm watching Titans. I'm enjoying Titans. I know you guys don't give a fuck about Titans, but I like Titans. I'm watching, bro. I'm locked in. Yeah, yeah, locked in. Locked in. All right. All right.

All right. So, Charles, take us out, baby. Van Lathan is old. Tim Allen is a rat. But all I can say after the end of this, episode is Thunder, Thunder, Thunder, Thunder, All right, please. Question. Could Captain America

beat Luke Skywalker? Hell no. Captain America is getting washed. The American's getting fucked over. Me and my brother argued about this. The fuck is Captain American are going to do when, like, Luke just force chokes him? Yeah, I don't think Luke is going to force choke, though. That's a I mean, that's a dark side thing. I get. I mean, that's, I get it.

But he could. You know what I'm saying? Well, no. He's not going to do that. You have to be a Sith to do that. He's not going to do it. I'll do it. I'll say this.

When fucking Cap throws the shield, Luke is just going to fucking catch it with a force and then throw it. And then Cap's going to be like, oh shit. My brother says Cap would throw the shield and then chase Luke down and then get Luke hand to hand. all he's got to do is get the is get the lightsaber out of Luke's hand and he says Luke is still has the force though that's what I'm not kidding.

Yeah, Luke can still jump around and do all kinds of crazy shit. It's stupid. It's the kind of stupid stuff that kids say. Luke projected his whole consciousness to another fucking goddamn planet and the best thing that Captain America can do is bounce a little metal boomerang around.

Like, I'm sorry. And I love Cap, but anyway. All right. It's time for it, baby. Four. Wait, wait, wait, wait, pause. I got to go to the bathroom. Okay.

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