The Ringer-Verse - What Went Wrong With Captain America: Brave New World | The Midnight Boys

Episode Date: February 15, 2025

The Boys are back to give you their honest reactions to the long-awaited Captain America: Brave New World (06:12). They discuss the film’s ambitions and how they didn’t stick the landing on a lot of those goals. Hosts: Van Lathan, Charles Holmes, Jomi Adeniran, and Steve Ahlman Producers: Aleya Zenieris, Jonathan Kermah, and Steve Ahlman Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Welcome into the Rearger's This is of course The Ringer's

Next's podcast feed For all things fandom We are Joni to explain in general You've got questions We're gonna answers

We are See the architect Almond The Builder And Team Purim We are Old Man Van He of the

Receding Recergent Hairline We are Coat Baby Chuck 24-trip Closer A.k.a

The Brunch Hattie Together We are known as A Midnight Boys Abinam Woo Uh

Falson Social's Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Donald Trump's TikTok, Jomey? Tough, tough, tough day to be out here talking about Donald Trump's TikTok. But if you follow up on Instagram, you saw that we announced something cool that's coming to the YouTube channel next week. So stay tuned just a little bit later for more info on that. Oh, Sammy, what a great tease. That's what we do. Wow.

Skiddle, Joe Skiddle with the Tee. We're on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe, share. You can watch every Midnight Boy's House of Our episode on YouTube.com, backslash, ring of verse program. Remind us on Monday.

House of Ar is giving you their deep dive on Captain America, Braves in the World. On Tuesday, the Ring ofverse crew unites for our first Dungeons and Dragons campaign with Ringer Quest on Spotify, Spotify, and YouTube. Steve. Yes, sir.

We all got together for our very first role-playing tabletop adventure. We filmed this back in December, and it's kind of a dream come true. Everybody had a great time, and we hope you all enjoy it. How long was the final edit, Steve?

Three hours. God damn. Wow. It's a three-hour video? Yes. Lock in. Rock in, guys. Like, lock in guys, lock the fuck.

It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. I had a great time. Yes. I had a great time. Okay. On Wednesday, the Midnight Boys are celebrating Black History Month with the blackest movies draft. Why that face? Why that face?

Yeah, what's wrong with that? There's nothing. I'm saying this. You made a face. You definitely made a face. No, I made a face. There's something to be said, but nothing to fairness. I want the people to be on the lookout for Steve Irino in this draft.

Did I surprise some people? I think this deserves a spoiler alert. We shouldn't be spoiling. Let's not. Let's not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a tease. Yes.

There's a difference between a spoiler and a tease. I don't know if our audience knows that. At this point, who gives a fuck? It is the mutual a spoiler and a tease. You're on the lookout. For Stephen Rieney, he might have made that. He might have made his ancestors proud. Actually, no, he probably disappointed his ancestors.

Yeah, no, I probably made his ancestors angry. Hey, speaking to Steve, real quick. Steve, I see the Nigerian jersey drew. Oh, yeah, courtesy and Jomey. You brought that out in February. I see, I see what's happening right now. I'm still on the clock. I see what's going on.

I got it. Yeah. Unfortunately for you, Jomey, that Nigerian jersey has nothing to do with Black History Month. That's something here for Black Americans. FBI. Oh, right. There's already going to be

enough division today with this podcast. So I'm sure that there's a Nigerian month that you guys have, whatever, but that right there has nothing to do. Steve, if you want to the shirt that recognizes the Black Panthers or something like that, I'll send you one. Okay. Okay.

That right there, shout out to our brothers in that. Joe, me, I support you for giving Steve his vibranium wings, okay? So. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. Yeah. See, you know what?

When you put that on, you look like a shirt of Africana. You do. It doesn't look bad on me. He looked like Cole Palmer. That's what he looked like with that on. You look like an Africana. You look like somebody who's taking somebody's land.

Okay. But on today's show, we're giving you our instant reactions to Captain America, Brave New World, and by God, we're here. We are here. Does it feel a little bit like we're thugging it out? This feels like old midnight boys.

Me in New York. We're all, we're all separate. It feels, yeah. It feels like, yeah, by God, we're here. Okay. I'm here. Charles is here. Jomi is here and steam is here.

By God. Are these March on Lynch vibes? We're here so we don't get fined. No. No? No. All right. Don't do that.

Don't do that. I'm excited to happen. All right. Don't do that. I love this job. Me too. I love the content. I love the content.

I love watching the content. I love it. But by God, are we here? Guys, are we here right now? We're here right now. We've never been more here. By God.

Unpressidented levels of here. We're so here. It's unbelievable how here we actually are. I don't think that there's ever been a time in the history of the Midnight Boys. where we've been more here. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Jacks.

Spoiler warning right now for all cap and MCU content. We're getting ready to talk about... Captain America, Brave New World. You're listening to a reaction podcast. The spoilers are... This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer

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Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Park coming. We need a midnight manifest. do we fine no manifest no matter of but damn here they could just

watch the trailer because that's basically the whole movie okay but here's the deal before we get into the instant reactions I want everybody on this podcast

to tell the people out there where they are right now here here duh all right these are midnight

Manifest for Captain America. Brave New World. Directed by Julius O'Nod, screenplay by Rob Edwards, Malcolm Spelman, Dalina Muson, Julius O'Nop, Peter Glans, starring Anthony Mackey, Harrison Ford, John Carlo Espoz, Timm-Blake Nelson. All right, eight movies later, the MCU finally decides to explain some of the Celestial bullshit. Turns out it's full of Adamantium and President Thunderball Ross. Promises he's going to evenly divide the precious metal across the globe.

To do that, he wants Captain Falcon on his side, but Anthony Mackey has his doubts about leading Trump's Avengers. All that is throwing out the window when a brainwash Isaiah Bradley tries to assassinate Ross. You don't remember who Isaiah is who popped up in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and it's the forgotten Captain America who was experimented on by the state. Mackie and his new baby Falcon go on a hunt to clear Bradley. They discover a conspiracy that includes Gus Spring, a random Hulk villain called the leader,

and a bunch of other shenanigans. Bucky momentarily returns to remind Anthony Mackey that a black man could do whatever a white Captain America can before returning to his congressional campaign. And then Captain America goes to fight President Ross and turns into the Red Hulk after being experimented on by the leader. Captain America stops Red Hulk with the power of friendship and the new leader of the MCU gets to bask in the cherry blossoms. That has been your Midnight Manifest for Captain America, Great New World. Now, Dan, Dan, I want you to lead us off with the first MCU installment that we've gotten. this year. How did Captain America

Brave New World Fair at the Cineplex for you? So the movie is not good. And that's okay. Okay. It's not a horrific, horrible disaster of a movie, but it's not to me. It's not to me.

Remember, Super Heroes on the screen, band's going to try to enjoy himself. The movie is not good. And the movie is not good in a way that is very troubling. Because I can look at the movie and see a film that could have been good. But it would have taken, just to be honest with you, more talented filmmakers. the Captain America Sam Wilson's Captain America

actually started reading it when we were when Charles and I did Captain America when we did when we did the Falcon of World Soldier back in the day I actually went on comicology and started reading the run from from Sam Wilson as Captain America to supplement some of my knowledge on it I didn't know too much about his run as Captain America or the

passing of the mantle, so I read a lot of it. And I was happy to see that when they made Sam Cap, they actually made him a street-level Captain America. They paired it down a little bit for someone who didn't have the serum and someone who didn't

have the time with the shield that Steve Rogers had. They made more of a street-level Captain America. But it was the comic was good. It was very lean. It was very linear. It was rough, ragging in the edges.

It was a little bit more pulled away from some of the big adventures that you had seen Captain America have. And that, to me, was the correct way to go about it, being that you were breaking somebody in and reorienting the character of Captain America around someone having the mantle that's new. It seemed like they attempted to do that with this movie,

but they just weren't good enough. And when I say they weren't good enough, I'm not talking about the individual talents of any one particular person making the film. I'm talking about the creative engine at Marvel and where that is right now. I'm talking about other things that happened during the shooting of this, be it the strikes, be it some of the other setbacks, some of the other rejiggering of things at Marvel. They just didn't have what they needed to take the character and redefine it, which is what this movie would have had to have done. They kind of, you see the movie being smaller. You see it being grainier and grittier at times,

but they don't commit to anything. It's a tense political thriller that is ridiculously predictable. It's, you can tell that Jan Carlo as, Bezito is your shoehorned into the movie has no real weight, that character in any way. And just too many cooks, not enough faith in whatever that they were doing. And just a poor execution all around. I mean, there's not one part of the movie to me that succeeds. Now, it doesn't fail spectacularly.

It's not like, you know, I've seen worse, but there's not. one part of the movie to me that succeeds. There's not one thing that I come away from the movie going, oh, they got that right. And that's a shame. Mint boys, Jome? Yeah, man. It's got to be honest with you guys. I really wanted to like this movie.

Sitting in the theater, I could see the vision, you know, but as a whole, to Vance point, it just doesn't, it is doesn't work. It's a thriller that's not really thrilling. Again, very, very, very predictable. Nothing surprised me. Nothing shocked me. If I had to give the movie something, I thought the battle at the TMA was kind of interesting, you know, the aerial duel, the shield acting like Red Wing using the shield to deflect the bullets while Sam was disarming. The disarming, the disarming the missile. I was like, oh, that's cool. But other than that, no motion, didn't really feel anything. Again, this is a movie that me, Olua, Dr. Miller, Judeanor on, I should love this. It's supposed to have intrigue and spy stuff. Like,

I'm supposed to, I'm supposed to be ten toes down. Y'all know how much I like tenet, right? this movie doesn't is in doesn't do anything that makes you go man I can't wait to see more of this stuff I can't wait to get more in the larger world I think that if the movie we we got at the theater was their starting point right this was like the first draft then maybe they could build on something maybe like they could have put something together that worked but the fact that this was the best they can do. It's a pretty tough indictment on the people. And it's tough because, again, this is a film that I really wanted to enjoy.

But at the end of the day, just didn't come together fully for me. There's such a, like, major feeling of a movie that has fallen victim to the Marvel machine, the most and it's this movie. And I don't know. It's a bummer because there's a lot in this movie that I see the beginnings of something that could have been interesting

and could have been compelling. But all that we got and all that I saw were the visible holes and the idea that this movie was clearly hacked to pieces from something that was either not working for the top brass at Marvel

or something that was lost in the shuffle post strikes, post production, post something, every single thing in this movie suffered from something that based on the talent on screen and both the talent seemingly behind the camera should have risen to hire for.

And it bums me out because we look at where Sam could have been at this point in his MCU tenure. And I'm really bummed out at the fact that frankly, this movie underserved Anthony Mackey to a degree that genuinely bums me out because I had like reassessed Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I had looked back on a couple of the movies in the Marvel catalog that I kind of thought we're at the bottom of the list here to kind of like assess like where we are

in 2025 after Brave New World. and sadly, like, it's discouraging, but I'm not fully discouraged about the fact that Marvel can kind of come back from this, but there's no denying that this is a massive misstep. Tough. Yeah. You've been waiting to get this off.

Clear out. The vibes are down, though. You've been waiting to get this off. My boy, here you go. Nah, this is, the product is so stepped on, y'all. Like, the streets is done. It's just... There was, I've never been in an icier movie here.

Not one joke landed. This is a movie where no one stood on business. Everything from top to bottom, from the direction to the screenplay, to the action, to the story beats is so empty. It's one of those things where it's like a lot of people worked hard on this movie. And like leaving it, I had this feeling of, I don't even know if there's any one person to blame. Because nothing works of this movie. It's not like, I'm not going to come in here and be like, yo, Anthony Mackey sucked because I'm like, the script wasn't there.

And I can't be like, oh, the directing sucked because I'm just like, well, the script and a bunch of the stars and a bunch of the plot beats just make no sense. There's no part of this movie where I was watching it where it felt like they had any faith in a black Captain America. in the Hulk nonsense of it all, in the Serpent Society nonsense of it all, in the Greater MCU projects, just even watching this movie, there was a feeling of, why are these characters talking and behaving like this?

This feels like a Netflix movie. It does not, when I, because like you guys, I went back to Winter Soldiers, Civil War, a bunch of other things just to be like, did the movie, were the movies always like this? Were they written like this?

Were they acted like this? And the answer is no. They had character arcs. There was emotional beats. It was not always perfect. Some of the CGI was wonky. But people spoke like human beings was the most important thing. Like,

there's nothing but exposition in this movie. And there's like a moment where like you see like a fraction of that. And I'm like, even Anthony Mackey's performance in Winter Soldier, it's so funny how it was like, that was a far more grounded performance. Like he still has the charm. He still has a lot of the things that make Anthony

Mackey, Anthony Mackey, but like just comparing how far and cartoonish I think the MCU has gotten was just a complete and utter bummer. I'll be so honest. Well, if you go back and you look at some of

the other films that we're talking about, the MTV is able to do a couple of things in these movies. They're able to ground their character in I mean, it's not necessarily the classic heroes journey all the time, but they're able to ground their character in a sense of

being overwhelmed, right? The moment that you take cap and you, first of all, the first thing that the movie does in Winter Soldier, I'm not comparing this movie to Winter Soldier, but if Winter Soldier to me is our contemporary introduction to Steve Rogers, Captain America, then there's going to be some comparison in there. So allow me a little latitude from the boys and from the audience. The first thing that Winter Soldier does, when they're introducing us to the Cap that we will see, Capp's arc takes place in his movie, which doesn't really get there. It's just an origin story. It gets us to where we need to be, right?

We understand the Cap Bucky relationship. Then he comes to, he comes of age and Avengers a little bit, right? By the end of the movie, you see Captain America being who we know Captain America to be, which is the only mortal that Thor says can lead him into battle. By the end of the movie, Cap is commanding the Avengers. Boom, we see that. He's the Captain of the Avengers. Winter Soldier has a different job to do.

What a Winter Soldier does is convince us that Captain America is a cool, awesome character. That's what the movie does. The first thing they do in that movie is show you Captain America straight, busing ass. It starts off with Captain America being as cool as you have seen. him. He dives off of a plane with no parachute,

falls into the water, coolest shit ever, and then starts wrecking people on a boat. This movie tries that same thing and fails. It tries an action situation with

our Captain America to show you that our guy is a badass and he doesn't look like that much of a badass. It doesn't work, right? Then the very next thing, that happens is you see Captain America being small in his world. When they take him down

into the project inside ground one, the whole place where it's happening, Steve looks tiny. And all of these, the shot itself, Steve looks small. He's next to Nick Fury.

All of these big, huge project inside helic carriers, they're huge, they're gigantic. he visually looks like someone that is small in this big world that he doesn't understand it looks like the chips

are against him he is going up against something and you can see it oh my God look all of this stuff is happening everything in this film everything in this film you're supposed to not know

you're supposed to not know what's happening even though we know that Red Hulk is coming for the entire movie you're supposed to feel a connection, even though we know these characters seem weirdly unfamiliar with one another. By the way,

the worst performance in the history of Harrison Ford, I don't know what's going on. Like, I've never seen Harrison Ford less powerful, less charismatic, less anything. And I am going to say something. This is a movie that needed a better director, and that's not a diss. That's just a fact.

Now, I don't know why the movie came off the way that it did, but the reality is, if you're going to do a thriller like this, you have to have expert directing because the pacing and the shots that are in the movie, they have to give you that sizz

and keep you. It's not an easy thing to do. Well, can I push back on that? I don't disagree. I think the directing in this movie is not good. It is quite clear. But how much can you blame the director when there was clearly

so many mandates in this movie where it's like we're calling it a political thriller, but A, it can't be a political thriller because there's no politics in this movie. I don't know what fucking Thunderbolt Ross. I don't even know his political affiliation. I don't know what he believes as a president. Then on top of that, you have three villains that don't work. And it's like, to your point, it's like with the John Carlo Esposito of it all,

those scenes are so tacked on. You're like, the only person that John Caller Esposito was talking to at any point is fucking Anthony Mackey. It's just the two of them in their room. every single time. And it's like when you tack on the eternals of it all, the Hulk nonsense of it all, I'm like,

how can you get a tight political thriller that a lot of the teaser trailers made us think when you have a bunch of MCU bullshit that I'm like, none of this really works together. None of it really makes any sense together. Let me tell you why I disagree. If you're telling me right now that,

so the concept of the film is actually smart to me. So they have to introduce adamantium into the MCU because you needed to make it a part of the X-Men world. It's smart to say that the Celestials have adamantium in them and that there's a fight for the resource and there's an international incident over it, right? That conceit to me that jumping off point to me, that's smart. That's smart. Okay. the politics of it don't necessarily have to do to me with, you know, whether or not Thunderbolt Ross is a Democratic or Republican or whatever. It has to do the politics are the president is doing something illegal. Somebody finds this out.

The president is doing something for his own gain. Somebody finds this out. the president has the thunderbolt Ross using the leader to make him the president actually conceptually it's cool that's actually like the president that's conceptually that's cool the leader being someone that the president has used all of his brain power to take him from being a wartime general to me that i understand what you're saying to me all of that stuff fits within the realm of the political uh the the the political um uh thriller but just none of it actually makes any sense none of it actually works you don't actually go ahead jim i think it not working is the thing that is most most damning

because i mean you brought the you brought up the winter soldier comp and bravery world is kind of like if somebody tried to draw a winter soldier from memory but they were in the dark you know and the the thing that I think they try to humanize Thurter Boat Ross by making him want a relationship with Betty like the whole movie is like I'm doing this for Betty you know I want to get closer to Betty this and this and on paper that's supposed to work right

you know a father once we haven't seen Betty in 20 years we don't care we don't care I thought that conversation on the phone was AI at one point when he's like 20 years Yeah, like it doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't move me. I'm sorry, that doesn't move me. If I had seen Betty along the way, probably, but I haven't seen Betty since 2008. Y'all forgot about her. Like it doesn't, that doesn't, that has no motion.

Yeah, but here's the thing. I like, I understand what you guys are saying in terms of just like, yeah, if you write it all out in a Wikipedia summary, I get how someone makes this story. but it's like the leader is supposed to be one of the smartest characters in the MCU does not come off like that. Like Thunderbolt Ross to become president should be at least charming or charismatic enough for me to be like, okay, I understand how he became president. Paris report is so wooden and is in such as I'm collecting a check bag where I'm just like, how does this even make sense? Even if you are going to at, I think at one point they're like, fuck it. We're just going to market this movie as a Red Hulk movie.

We saw 90% of all the Red Hulk footage in the trailers. How does that make any sense? Like at what point does anybody go like, yo, what are we doing, y'all? Either make a Red Hulk movie or make a Captain America movie. Don't try to make both. Because when you try to make both, it ends up just being a whole like pot of nothing.

And that's where I think is that's the biggest problem. It's not, I can't point to any one. direct thing that is the problem other than the fact that this feels like a filmmaking, not by a team, but by committee, where we don't have enough of this to sell somebody on a movie, so we have to add this. Well, this is too hard or this isn't being executed properly enough, so we'll throw in an action scene.

We can't get this character from point A to point B, so we'll have them talking while they're in motion just to justify the fact that that they're going somewhere. None of it feels cohesive and, like, frankly, good. And any moments that I get to see of either personality, style, or charm from either the film or its characters, it comes at the cost of just pushing the ball forward, rather than actually letting characters sit in what they should actually be comfortable with. I wanted to talk about the only fraction

like the crack in the window of sunshine that I got in this movie and it was when Sam and Bucky get back together and it isn't even the fact that they're talking it's the fact that when a scene is ending it's punctuated by them just hanging out and joking around and there's a moment where you feel the movie just like untitened

and loosen up and you see characters become people and you see Sebastian Stan and Mackie actually vibing and having a level of chemistry that is completely foreign to this movie. And it's the stuff like that that is actually missed and you get to see that sauce even if just for a second.

And that's the thing that I really, really needed and it doesn't show itself at all in this movie. The thing, you know what works for me, the bigger falcony Captain America scenes. Like the Tiamet scene where he's flying around as Captain America Falcon. they were able to make me think that there could be a version of Falcon that could exist as Captain America with the wings and all of that stuff. That stuff was pretty cool. This movie, to me, either needed to be a much, much smaller movie. They spent a lot of money on it, but you can tell that a lot of that money was in reshoots and all of that stuff.

This needed to either be a much, much smaller movie, which I still don't think the MCU is comfortable doing. I still don't think the MCU is comfortable in taking a movie and making it smaller. This needed to be either a much, much, much smaller movie or a much, much, much bigger movie. Much, much bigger movie. And when I say much, much bigger, I mean, you needed,

it's just, you needed a bunch of Avengers in this. You would have needed a movie where Sam was going around actually recruiting the Avengers to be, you needed a bunch of people in it. You needed to Civil War the movie. Either that or make this into a film

that is almost just about Sam and Isaiah Bradley and even going back and helping Isaiah Bradley get retribution or some type of small deal. Some type of small thing where it's Sam and Isaiah are

because I like that dynamic between those two guys on a mission together. But trying to do what they did, which is a high degree of difficulty, it just, you have to nail it and they just, they didn't have things coming together. Did anything work in the movie for you, Charles, at all?

No. I feel bad even. Here's the thing. You know a movie's bad when I fell asleep two times during the fucking celestial fight because I was like, I don't give, like, at that point, I had thrown up my hands. Because first, I guess the thing that was kind of so egregious to me is that you can tell the parts of this movie that are stitched together. You can tell that the whole entire first 15 to 20 minutes of this movie was reshot.

I thought I was going to have an aneurism when they were basically doing the kind of like, here's a 10 minute exposition dump where Harrison Ford is basically going to explain to you all this MCU bullshit. Then the fight, the new fight that I think they filmed, where John Carlos Esposito is running away from Cap, that looked bad. I think the chemistry between Mackey and the new Falcon is not,

I think the new Falcon is not great. And I hate to say that, but it was, I don't know how you could be a 30-year-old man. I thought he was going to bright spots in the movie. I think so, too, and it's only because of the fact that, like, they had prior chemistry in Falconin with the Soldier, which, again, I've seen before. I disagree. I disagree.

When he did the little dance in the opening after he beat the guy, I'm just like, all right. I'm not saying it wasn't in the movie that was having fun. He was the only person in the movie that was having fun. He was the only person in the movie that was having me fun. I couldn't buy the game. I thought, like, of everyone, I thought he was one of Bryce Foss in the movie. When he was in the hospital bed? Yeah, you can't.

Okay. The problem with that was, it was cool, but you can't get on here and say that when you wanted, when you, when you grow up, you wanted to be Falcon. That's not true. Nah, nobody wanted. Of all the fake stuff that happened in a movie. Let me tell you something. Of all the stuff that happened in a world where Iron Man exists. Yeah, you didn't want to be Falconer.

I disagree. Let me tell you why. We was at the, we was at the gym one time back in the day. I never forget this. When I realized, people really have their own little niches. We was in the gym one time back in the day and, you know, everybody was in their hooping. It was this younger guy that was in there hooping. And he was like, yeah, man, you know, when I, there was a bunch of younger guys that were being there hooping with us. They all ended up being pretty good basketball players. man, this is like 2008. And one of the guys went, yeah, man, I see myself as like an Andre Miller in the league.

I remember one of the older guys, Monty went, nigga, that's it? That's what you got? That's all you aspire to be? Hey, respect Audrey Miller. Respect Audrey Miller. Andre Miller made into the NBA and had a great career. But he was like...

Amble elementary legend. He was like, Youngbook, you got to... he's like, I get it. He's not even Andre Miller aspired to be Andre Miller. God, damn. Oh, wow. This was what he said. He said, Andre Miller got to a point

to where he realized he was Andre Miller, and he got good at being that. But he's like, I guarantee you, Andre Miller came up thinking, I'm going to be magic, I'm going to be Bob, whatever, going to be Penny, whoever. But he was like, no, if you set the bar and Andre Miller, then you only go to become you

and nobody wants that. And then we all fucking laughed. So all I'm saying is, there's guys out there that look at all the... That want to be the Falcon? That look at all the Avengers and go, I'm Falcon.

I'm telling you, is guys out there that look up to Falcon. Falcon is a very important kid. You mean beta-ass niggas? Can you imagine, yeah, I want to be Falcon, bro. Come on. Come on.

Look, we play all right. Yeah, I don't know that Falcon is a... I know. call Falcon a bait-ass nigger. You got, if you say some shit like that, you got to fight Falcon. But here's the thing. Also, I get that they're trying to make

like, because this movie, to their credit, went a long way to make Falcon look, try to look cool. There's no way. There's no way that the Falcon is pressuring Red Hole. I'm sorry. That was some bullshit. What?

Like, come on, guys. Really? It's tough. that stuff. I don't really see it. Frankly, it's the, it's not you and this isn't you type ending talking him down and like, I don't know. So that's supposed to be

a super power. That's supposed to be a super power. I get it. But that's not nowhere conveyed. That doesn't move. We saw it in Falcon Winter Soldier. We're seeing it now. I understand that his background is in the counseling, right? They mentioned the movie a bunch of times, right? Like, don't,

what is it? What is it? They like don't try to counsel me right now, Sam or whatever. Like that's what he does. Now I mean? Guys, superhero movie. I need these guys to be punching each other when it's soft sitting and done. I get it. He's supposed to talk the red hole

down. But just like Falcon and a soldier here, it doesn't really, and it doesn't really work. Let me, I got to say something, y'all. I think that Falcon, Captain America should take the heart-shaped earth. Okay.

You got to take the serum. Oh, you got to take the serum, so, so listen, maybe not the serum. Maybe the serum is too tainted, okay?

Maybe the serum is too tainted. Bad press with the serum. Bad press with the serum. Steroids, Barry bonds, the whole thing, yeah. I think they should write it in where he takes the heart-shaped herb.

He goes back to the ancestral claim. He says, what happened in this movie what should have happened in my movie is that Isaiah should have died and then he should have taken a heart-shaked herb and he should have seen I talk to Isaiah.

And then we would have had an amazing flashback of him fighting Bucky in the 50s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm telling you right now, GNC Cap is not going to work. Damn. Hummer H4C is.

I'm going to. Cap on creatine is not going to work. Every time Cap gets hit, I'm like, it's open for the thing. When he comes to out of that trunk in the in the Hummer that I was like, come on. Bro, you were excited at that. Bro.

It's product placement. What you mean? Oh, well, here's the thing. This is what I can't. I can't let this slide. Cap was having trouble with the Jan Sixer in the first 15 minutes at a movie. That, that motherfucker broke his ribs.

And I'm supposed to believe 90 minutes, almost two hours later, with some vibranium wings, a hope and a dream, he's taken down a Red Hulk. Come on, bro. Like, let's be serious. Let's be serious. Yeah, he needs to get on whatever they was taken in Oakland. The N.

The N.C.U. is known for deep power and hoax. At this point, me and Jomey could fuck over a Hulk in the N. I really think so. Me and, like, me and Jomey and Bozeman. me and Jomey and Bozeman Lightwork Could fuck over Think about what they've done to Hulks

In the MCU Oh man Literally Bruce Barrett Hulk had Tommy John surgery Gosh Like he's out Well he got He got his arm in a sling

He got two pieces by Thanos And we never saw him again That was it Just just punished Wouldn't Wouldn't even come out to play no more Right And now you got Red Hulk

Red Hulk lost to the Wiccundian Tech. Do y'all think he lost to a speech? He lost to a speech, bro. Like, really, Red Hope lost to a speech. That means, bro, Obama is fucking over Red Hulk, man. Damn. Like, bro, Obama was, fuck.

Bro, Obama would come out right now. You know what I'm saying? He leave. He'll, you know, why? He could beat Red Hulk over the phone. Obama could beat Red Hulk. Now, let me be true. clear and then just go.

No, let me be clear. Brett Hall. Do y'all think, y'all think, y'all think Bruce Banner was watching that on TV, like all that go down is like,

hey man, that's crazy, bro. That's, wow, that's nuts. I hope Bruce Banner's on his ayahuasca retreat and not even pay attention to

it. It was a Tom Brady looking at the Holmes moment for Bruce Banner. Like, talk, I never go out like this. It's like, oh,

what that happened to me, though? Me personally, I would let that slide. But also, if I'm putting on my tinfoil hat, I do think it's kind of fucked up that, you know, the politics of this movie, all right, that the white captain America, he could beat anybody. But the black captain America basically got to beg Trump to be his friend. Like, he don't want to do drugs. You don't want to, you don't want to get like, brother.

I agree with Van. Take the heart shape herb. Take the HGH, my man. Like, go get the extra testosterone pumps. Whatever you got to do, my man. lock it in because it's not gonna it's really not gonna fly boy you're telling me bucky couldn't have stopped

his congressional fucking that is also whatever but he couldn't stop trying to be in Congress for one minute to be like I got you I can't wait for Thunderbolts because that congressional campaign is going to blow up in his face so I'm like well that's cooked he's not getting in Congress

JFK well he's in top of those comes he's in Congress he's a congressman yeah I'm pretty sure that's crazy that's which way which political party is Bucky affiliate with. Oh, he's Green Party for sure. He's Green Party for sure all the way. He definitely a Republican.

He can't be in a green party. He was in the grassy, no. What are you talking about? He killed 81 people on TV. Like, he's got to be Republican. He's the most Republican person I've ever seen. Yeah, he's like, absolutely. Pro gun, obviously.

Pro gun. Like, definitely pro gun. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think he's going to be He was there in the 40s, right? remember when America was good I was there I can bring y'all back to that time that's his whole campaign that's why the Dora Milage was like we need our arm back

fuck I mean a couple of things number one he can't be in the Green Party because he got elected that's not very true very true you know what I mean it is a fantasy world anything can happen you know what I mean they got a hoax around I guess I'm gonna shout out to the ideas of the Green Party just

you know we're trying to be competitive sometimes not just let me go at them sometimes I'm fucking with you maybe so as part of the great unwokening, this movie worries me a little bit because I can already see the wheels turning over at Marvel. They like, damn, we don't know

if a black captain America can really get it done. And looking at the rest of the slate, we don't know when Blades coming out. Ironheart has been pushed back so much. Wonder Man is Wonder Man. And then we got Black Panther 3. Then are you worried about the future of our black brothers and sisters in the MCU? Because it seems like they're fucking up a little bit.

Not our black brothers and sisters, but the powers that be. No, I'm not. I'm not because it's going to always come back to the same shit anyway, right? It's like, I'm over that. I'm over. It's like, this is me. Watch this. At one point I care, but, oof, I'm over.

Wow. You know, I'm not, I'm not about to spend the rest of my life fighting over black Jedi's. I'm not doing it, okay? Like, I'm not doing it. I'm over it. It's like the racists, racism, schisms all over the places. It's sisms. All right hard to come out.

It could be the best show ever made. And people would be like, a black nagger. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. When they criticized Black Panther when it came out, it doesn't matter whether this stuff is good. It doesn't matter whether this stuff is bad.

Okay. Has the stuff been bad? Yes. Oh, it's been bad. Okay? It hasn't been great. But it really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

They came out Black Panther. The right was up in a Tizzy den. Do we need a black and this and is this black? And I remember they would pick little things. Like, why are they doing it? combat to decide their leader. Shut the fuck out. Shut up.

It's a good note. Just shut up. Just shut the fuck out. Maybe they'll have an election in a little bit. It don't even matter. Shut up. So I don't care as far as the, all I care about, black, white, red, purple, green.

I care about the fact that they commit a little bit more to these projects. and they stay out of the creative way so they can make great stuff. Like Ironheart, Wonder Man, Black Panther 3, Blade. I no longer fret based upon any cultural connection to these characters

because I don't think that we're looking almost at anything. Drake just dropped. It could have been the greatest shit ever. It wasn't, but it could have been the greatest shit ever, and some people still would have hated on it. It could have been the wackest shit ever,

and some people still would have been all over it. We're in an unprecedented era of Dick Rodden. So where the only thing that I care about is whether or not these things are executed in the right way. I do not care about them from a cultural standpoint. So then that's my

follow-up, Midboys van. Where do you think this movie kind of leaves Marvel? Because I feel like this was supposed to, I thought like there was some momentum and people maybe had a little bit more

renewed faith, maybe in this movie, as it got closer, to start off kind of like a good gear for superhero movies in Marvel in general. And this has kind of put me on the back foot a little bit. I'm like now worried about like, how can a movie this bad even get released? Yeah, I mean, they did dump it, right? We understand what it was. You know what I'm saying? Y'all got it. He just take it. I think at this point, man, maybe it's just the nature of our business, but there's, I'm not, I'm not one for the movie to move it. It's over. We're back.

It's over. We're back. I can't keep doing it. Like, that's just what it is. I just can't be, can't, I guess. But we ain't been back for a long time, Joe. No, but, but I'm saying like every, after every movie, it's, it's either like, people, people can spin it. We're back.

People can say, but every movie is a referendum. Every single movie is a referendum on what this, this, this franchise is now. you know it'd be like after every after every single game you day play lakers win two in a row oh we're back they lose one eyes over austin reaps can't play like i would like let's see what happens after phyttas of four comes out right because if we go this movie stinks right for to all accounts then thunderbolts is cool the vaticar four is great then it's a different conversation yeah right now it doesn't look great but i i i don't want to come in and say all it's over, done, trade all the picks, trade everybody.

Like, let's just tank and get ready for next season after the first film of 2025. Yeah, it feels weird, but I'm actually not discouraged by the rest of Marvel's output this year. I think that this started to be the thing where it's like, okay, it's starting to be not okay when you have this many cooks in the kitchen and it ends up being a failure. I think with the things that we're going to be getting in the coming months, there's still a lot to look forward to because the things that they reassessed from Daredevil,

the things that they seem to lean in for with Thunderbolts, the time that they wanted to take with Fantastic Four is still encouraging. All we heard about from the beginning from Captain America Bravely World is that things aren't going well. And it might not be a good thing.

And we were bracing for that impact. from almost the moment that we heard about it. And now, seeming that Marlon knows that it's operating on the back foot and wants to take its time a bit more. Yeah, this seems like they kind of just punted and let this out.

But again, I'm not discouraged. So, I'm not either, and let me tell you why. So, you know, I had COVID this week. I tested positive on Monday. I tested negative on yesterday, but the COVID is still coming out of me. I'm still, like, coughing the stuff up. This movie is the coughing up of stuff.

Ooh. I don't like that. I don't like that metaphor. Just tell you. Like this movie is the last bit of it. When I look at the trailers and dig into the concepts for both Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four, and to a degree, even Daredevil. which, you know, itself had its own troubled production.

What I see is two films that to me at least look like they have original fresh takes on things, that they have, you know, big-time villains in them, they have big-time stakes in them, and that they're going to shake things up a little bit and make us look at things a little bit different. And they look like movies that are coherent. And more importantly, they look like films that are holding things back in the trailers, which this movie wasn't. So I think this film ended up being a disaster that is more indicative of the sickness that Marvel is coming out of, the virus that was there for a little bit as far as the, the dysfunction that was going on at the studio.

And not necessarily, like, what's going to happen before. Now, I will say this, moving on. I'm still interested to see Anthony Mackey as Captain America. There hasn't really been anything that's been done that's dampened my enthusiasm for Anthony Mackey as Captain America. I don't think that Chris Evans had necessarily a complete hold over the character after the first movie. I think we have to remember that.

I think it took a little while for them to understand. understand how to orient the character around him and then, you know, he found it with the Rousseau's. And so that's kind of how things go. I think it's awesome that Anthony Mackey is Captain America. And I still think that he has great adventures as Captain America to come. But this hasn't dampened any of my enthusiasm for Thunderbolts or for Fantastic Four. My question for Anthony Mackey as Captain America is less. At this point, like I said, I think I'd be an asshole if I went super at Anthony Mackey.

I don't think he was the problem with this movie. There's a lot more problems. But if you're forecasting, what I was worried about is I'm almost thinking Chris Evans is not only for sure coming back, but I don't know how long Anthony Mackey's Captain America is long for this world. And that has nothing against Anthony Mackey. That has more with like,

I don't think any of these new heroes, whether it's Captain Marvel, whether it's Anthony Mackey's cap. I don't know if you're an exact model. You're like, can they really lead Avengers Doomsday or Avengers Secret Wars? Like, I don't know. And that has nothing, that has less to do with acting ability and more to do with our nostalgia and love for the original product. Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing that Marvel was going to have to do, I think we talked about this on the pod back in the day, was to show that they could pass the mantle. Look, the comic books can't really pass the mantle.

Like, Captain America is Steve Rogers. That's it. It's open. Captain America is Steve Rogers. The one that's been the most successful is Spider-Man, and that's been a little... That was surprising. It wasn't like that at first, but then Miles Morales was able to carve out

his own identity as Spider-Man. But even there, Spider-Man is Peter Parker. You know what I mean? Like, Batman is Bruce Wayne. there can be other people that can take these mantles and be different versions of them that are good. Maybe Flash, you have some arguments and stuff like that. You know, Barry Allen and Wally West, whomever.

Green Lantern, maybe, with all the characters that have that. But for the most part, it never really gets done like that. So they'd have to do it in a different, new, exciting way. And we'll see if they can, but they certainly didn't in this movie. I'm just being honest. I think it's hard, too, because, you know, part of it was they wanted to warrior ran around with Chadwick and, you know,

that, you know, we know we lost him in 2020. And like, I think it was supposed to be, what, him, Cumberbatch, and Brie Larson as Captain Marvel, right? And her movies, regardless how you feel, didn't really move the needle like they were supposed to.

And so now you have to reach, yeah, you can say that. I like the first one. Hey, I like the first one's okay. First one's all right. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, okay, but when you come, she doesn't, she's not good as Captain Marble, and that's okay to. Sure, right? Where does you? Actually, you know what?

Actually, you know what? Maybe that's a little bit too far. I haven't seen, I haven't enjoyed it as Captain. I don't want to say she's not good as Captain Marvel. No, it's definitely a mixed bag. Yeah, it's, it's been a mixed bag. I think, I think the first one, it's, she's a little bit, uh, it's tough for her because she's supposed to be somebody who doesn't know what's going on.

It's very much stoic and very much not really. having as much fun as everybody else. And then the second one is the second movie. It's just it is not well put together. Right. So her characterization has been so, like, weird within the movies that you haven't really got a, like a hold on her character. Right. And now you're supposed to anchor this second leg of the MCU and we don't really know what your character is.

Right. Dr. Trains, Multiverse of Madness didn't really, didn't really work. And then, of course, the chat with stuff. So you have your three people are supposed to hold. this thing down and it's not it they they they can't find it and so yeah it's just it's it's not what you want looking at the second leg ultimately yeah you probably i mean they're already bringing you know robert dony junior back as dr doom right chris heffins your the email's blowing up right now obviously chris hemsworth is still around they're going to find

some way to get scarlet johanison back you know oh time me whime time travel stuff whatever and Jeremy Renner is still still around. So, you know, it's all, it's all coming together. Where do you, where do you guys put this brave new world? Because obviously it's the worst cat movie, I think easily. Where do you put it in terms of tiers of Marvel? Because it's at the bottom. Like I was trying to figure out which Marvel movie was worse than this one.

And it was, it was difficult. I think Eternals is better. Yeah. I, I, I had a, I, I had a, I had like a re-examination of it and I think that there's only a few movies that I would find better than this and that's only because

the ones that I marked below it like actively piss me off. I think Love and Thunder is that is that movie for me personally. I think this movie and I think Love and Thunder is better but it's like like one's the same tier. It's like it's same exact tier. Sure.

Thor the Dark World is better to me. Yeah. Then what movie is this better? It took a while. You guys think that Thor the Dark World is better than Love and Thunder? Yes. Yeah.

For sure. Really? Yes. Again, I implore you to look back on that because there are a couple of very good Loki things in that that I really, really like. No, no, no. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not, I don't hate Thor the Dark World like that. Like, I don't hate it like that.

I really don't. but I didn't realize that the love and thunder hate was this this deep. Yeah, yeah, it's, I looked back at that and I'm like, no, this is pissing me off. This is really good me. Here's the thing, I don't, I'll examine it. I would have to rewatch both of them sequentially, but they're, they're kind of a similar turd, if I'm going to be honest. Like, and that's what makes the bottom tier Marvel movies hard because I'm like, I don't want to just come out

and say Captain America, Brave New World is the worst Marvel movie. But it's definitely tied. TD left the theater. We saw it with TD, our former co-worker. He was like the first thing out of his, at least I heard out of his mouth was comfortably the worst MCU movie ever. Wow. I was like, hold on.

It's there. It's tied. Because you guys can't list to me what movie Marvel movie is worst. Quantumania? Quantumanium is bad. But it, like, it's because here's the thing I'm going to be honest

Paul Rudd still has enough chemistry I'm not chemistry but has enough charisma to carry that movie in certain parts in a way that like that's nothing against Anthony Mackey it doesn't the movie doesn't have that central performance that movie is still that movie still has a good

Kang performance it's still it just it does too much it's not nah the marbles it's so interesting with the models here the marbles is worse the marvels is worse I will say that I don't think that. This movie doesn't have a performance like Amon Valani in the Marvels.

And Von Velani like really shines in that. Yeah. But here's the thing that the marvels to me, honestly I would say the marvels in Brave New World are tied. They have the exact same problems for me. Okay. But again, you know what the real thing is?

Is that once you get down to the, by the way, Eternals is aging. Perfectly. It's so well. It's aging. All right, all right, all right. We're not doing this.

I love it on the right side of history. No, no. I mean, I got to give credit to Joe me. Eternal is raising really well. We got to talk about the movies we owe an apology to. And Eternal is we don't owe any apologies to the Eternal. I don't know if I'm going to go as far as saying to our apology to Eternal. What I'm going to say is that Eternals is an incredibly watchable movie with some really cool ideas.

Yes. I would like to do a re. I would like to do. Midnight Mulligans as a whole episode for specific movies. To where we re-watch the movie and do almost as almost

re-watchable. Oh, dad. Oh, father. Like a Mulligan showcase, kind of. We're just like, all right, let's really... Because leaving the theater, I don't know that I I don't know that Eternals was what I thought it was going to be,

but Eternals is good. Here's the thing. The most memorable thing about, about, like, I like Eternals. I will say Eternals, what I will give y'all is A, Aternals is more competent than pretty much anything that we've gotten since in the MCU outside of you kind of outliers. And I also think weirdly... Guards of the Galsy 3 has been in the internal.

Yeah, of course. There's some outliers. Also, to give A Eternal something, it doesn't look as bad as a bunch of the other shit. Oh, there's some, like, beautiful moments in Eternals. There's no beautiful moments in Brave New World. Brave New World looks more. Like, it's like, I'm not even talking about the terrible.

That final fight looked terrible with the final fight. I was also, I'm so sorry. What was the Cherry Blossom shit? Like, why do you keep coming? He wanted to go there with his daughter, Charles. If he showed up to the cherry blossoms, is he can remind her of his daughter, Charles. The son's getting real low.

Also, if I'm in my hater bag right now, what was the leader? What the leader looks terrible? It was bad. There was a second that he looked cool and it's when he was in shadow and you saw the green eyes and I'm like, okay, that was him the whole movie, cool.

But no, man. Tim Blake Nelson. The aesthetic of the leader is a perfect it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Yeah, but it's like the idea of a classic comic book villain that like is

gaudy and ridiculous but like if you do it right it could look fucking cool. Right. It's like they, it's like they wanted to go 1976 made for TV scary which if you can do that in a big budget way is cool. They wanted to go like this is Saturday afternoon.

You're watching a political thriller. And they kind of wanted to go for that aesthetic with the leader. But the more time you spend looking at the leader, you're like, I push his thing in his mouth. If I'm going to be honest, I think what really happened if I was like a fly on the wall is the leader, Dailies came back. And that shit was not working to such an extent. they were in the boardroom like,

yo, we need a new villain stat, what actor is on our line that we can get? Who's the most evil nigger we know? And they like, I think we could get John Carlo Esposito because that's what it felt like. It feels like the movie could not,

because Harrison Ford is mailing it in. And Nelson is just like, he has nothing to do as a leader. Like, I like him as an actor, but he has nothing. So it's kind of like they're like, can we get John Carlo Esposito to kind of convince us

that there is an actual villain here and instead you just end up with three villains that I'm just like all of these performances kind of stuff. Frankly, I wanted them to bring back Balchrock the Leaper. Like, I just love that when that guy shows up and gets his ass kick. That got shot. What did I say? That got shot by Sharon Carter and Falconer with a soldier.

Yeah, bro. Bring him back for some reason. I don't care. I love him when that French asshole just gets his ass kicked. They cut, they also cut Rosa Salazar from the movie. I don't know. I mean, I don't know why. that happened as well, but clearly

there was a lot of stuff going on. There were just chop, chop, chop. I have two questions for you guys. We talked about the MCU movies that this movie is worse than. But let's go through the Sony movies real quick to see if this movie is worse any of them. Is it worse than the first venom?

No. Okay. Is it worse than let there be carnage? No. Wait. I don't let them. All three Venom movies are better than this movie. All three Venom movies are better than this movie. Right. And they started to scratch this ground on the big pick

where they were talking about like the novelty of the badness of some of these Sony's movies like a Madam Webb or even some of these Venom movies where we're like, that experience of seeing Venom. Yeah, that doesn't move. That doesn't move the needle from there. Madam Webb, if we're going to be honest, Madam Webb is most.

I don't. And I like, yeah. I feel like Mada Webb is worse. Morbius is worse. Morbius is worse. Venom the last dance. I think they might be on the same level.

No, I had fun with the last dance. I had fun of the bed of the last dance. Craven? Craven? This movie's better than Craven. This movie's better than Craven. It's better than Craven. It's better than Craven.

But I enjoyed Craven, boy. This movie is better than Craven. This movie is better than Craven. The whole like, oh, man, we have fun in the theater because the movie was, so bad that I don't move me man movie stunk I not a movie stunk let's be let's keep it a book let's keep it a bean so here's the thing about Marvel

and this is the the main criticism of Marvel that like I can love you right now you know there used to be a time where a Marvel movie can only be so bad there was a it wasn't there was a floor the marble ceiling obviously

was a big deal with in game and infinity war and all that stuff but more impressive was the Marvel floor. And I think in the last five years, the Marvel floor has been the thing that's really, really, really, really been

shocking. The floor has been lowered. The floor used to, the floor for Marvel used to be higher. The floor is lower. Now, they can make a complete, complete disaster, and we've seen them do it kind of over and over and over again.

That's not necessarily me calling this movie a complete disaster. It's me saying that the film itself is like that I hope everybody watches because we got to get this. We got to get this. Black History Month. You got to put your dues in, you know what I mean? But I don't know. I would be lying to y'all if I came out here and told y'all that this movie did what it was supposed to do. It didn't. No. I wanted to, because I don't know if you've seen

any of the discourse, conversation around the movie. But people really like this movie. what are you talking about brother brother people the audio score is like over 80% people are rocking with this that's a lot that's well here's the thing here's the thing usually the audience

score for that shit is like 100 so I don't I don't take that like I'm telling y'all I talk to people this week and I was I was ready I was ready to go into the movie just let you guys know since I was sick I didn't see it with the rest of the boys on Tuesday

I saw it And I saw it yesterday And because I was getting intel all week For people who had seen it I was ready to go into the movie And come out here and fight the good fucking fight But there was no fight Tough

However what Jolie is saying is true It's people that's fucking with it And everybody go see the movie and make up your own mind people. I will say, here's the thing. The movie's going to make a lot of money this weekend.

We don't have a little bit of nerd news. Like, if the movie surprises me and outperforms, like, cool, I'll say, I don't know if,

I don't know if this is the type of movie. It reminds me of Eternals. When people get out of this movie, I think they're going to be pissed because they're just like, you promise me Red Hulk. And I didn't really get Red Hulk. What the fuck?

I think they over indexed on the Red Hulk shit. Because I was like, I was even surprised. I'm like, wait, this is the only fight we're getting. This is all, like, but I wanted to ask before we did Midnight Meter, a friend of the pod, Nate Moore, told EW, quote, now that we can build the path towards X-Men, we want to start sprinkling in these things, meaning adamantium,

so that it doesn't feel like you're going to drink from a fire hose when that movie comes so that the MCU starts to lay the groundwork for what could come. All right, then. Get it out. Jesus. Okay, Nate. Go ahead. I was going to ask,

come on now. Do you think that that is a good strategy for the X-Men? Because that actually worries me a little. It's no reason to be worried. It's like, it's fine. Like, you know, I'm sick of being worried about these fucking movies, you know. The movies will come out and they'll be good or they'll be bad. They can't spring everything on us all that.

once because it's too much of a dump. Right now, I would right now, I wish they would say, fuck it. I wish they would come out and have Dr. Strange do a spell. And the spell would be called the reveal spell. And then Dr. Strange would do this.

This is his wand. Does he have a wand? No, he has a sling ring. But let's say he got a wand. And this is Dr. Strange. Boom. This is strange. He did a spell and he erased Spider-Man. Do a spell and make the X-Men come to life. What if

what if Charlotte Witch is alive? Is that what Charlize Theron was hoping to do it at the end of This is, I'm Dr. Van Strange. How do they say that Harry Potter? It was Ibiza. It was Abitha. Liviosa.

Liviosa. Liviosa. Olivia Rosa. Olivia Rodrigo. I do this. All right. And then the X-Men just appear. What if? Because if they try to do it.

do anything too complicated, they're going to fuck. I disagree. This is the X-Men at this point are the fucking hot sauce of the MCU. Every single Marvel movie or TV show at the end when they know they don't got the juice, it's like, all right, Miss

Marvel, here's a theme song, she a mute it, fucking multiverse of madness, they're like, yeah, we got Patrick Stewart, let's roll his old ass out in the fucking wheelchair. It's like, oh, Marvel sucks. Here's fucking cartoon B. it's like dog like you can't it seems like every single movie now it's like they just put

like some mutant hot sauce on it and it does nothing for the story i'm just like it's just fucking jangling keys in my face at this point well they have to put the x-men in the world see this is the thing that's why i say just do it all at once do you're damned as they do they damn if they're don't if they bring the x-man we're gonna be like well shit what the x-men was just watching what thanos came like they didn't care oh what the fuck what the fuck what the fuck what the fuck X-Men doing. Everybody's asking all of these. In the comics, we never would ask these questions.

They could do whatever they wanted. Yeah. Like, somebody could die. They could come right back to life and somebody else's skin and they could grow into a new organism and we'd be like, oh, wow, that's what happened. But like, in the movies, everybody has such direct, literal questions about why and how these things are happening. Where have the Fantastic Four been?

Where have these people been? How do you explain it? And if they braincrum you and put these people, put these things in the movie, we go, oh, my God, you're just doing that to give us sex. But if they just do it, you're going to ask all these. There's no way to win. So what I'm saying is, fuck it. Fuck it.

At the end of the Fantastic Four, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Just have Scarlet Witch come alive. Wolverine should kill Franklin Richards. Jesus Christ. Wow. All right. Just have in the movie.

Just have Scarlet Witch come back and she can be like, instead of saying no more mutants, just be like, mutants, boom. We did it. Mutants are off. reverse it. Have her say mutants. That's exactly what I just said. More mutants.

You still got COVID brain, man. Daw, I'm fucking struggling. It's bad. Okay. Like, I'm fucking struggling. But look, uh, yeah, actually, take that out. Take me out saying that. Okay.

I'm actually leaving it. I don't put a fuck of people. All right. All of that. Leave all of that in. All the second. guessing, great. We want to do midnight meter? Yeah. Let's do it.

All right, guys, it's time for our midnight meter. Y'all know what it is. This is our proprietary rating system. One to ten, normal one to ten scale, one being the worst and being the best. We reserve 11 and 12 for true, true game changers. All right. Van, start us off strong. Awesome. Ooh, I didn't think it was going to be that harsh. five.

Jomey? Yeah, five is where it's at. The problem with this movie, I think the biggest indictment of the movie is that it's boring. That's just the truth. And,

yeah, I was sitting next to Kerm, I fell asleep at least two or three times. There's a middle stretch in this movie where they don't got the wings on and it's just fucking Captain Falcon and baby Falcon just like walking around. I'm like,

this is the most boring shit. Yeah, that's the biggest diamond. So, like, as much as I would love to, you know, try and try and put my positive spin and, you know, do my whole thing. It's a five. Steve? It'll be at four. Yeah. It's one of the worst things that a Marvel movie can be, and that's boring.

Yeah. So I just got to be real with the audience. And I'm the only critic out here who is not paid off by big Michael Mouse. so that's why I have to give this movie a big stinking too. It was quite them and it might drop a whole point

by Midnight Mulligans. This is definitely. Only a point. I'm waiting for Charles to get into the negatives at some point. I want the audience I want the audience

to pay attention to something in this podcast. Charles is actually annoyed that he doesn't get to hate in peace. He likes it. better when we like the movie and

he can be the sole negative voice. That is not true actually. That is not true. That is not true. Absolutely true. Look what he just did. I'm the only one that's not paid off by Michael Mouse. A five is insane. We should go. Can somebody bring up Mulligans?

A five is insane. I'm looking at Mulligan's right now. What other movies have a five? You gave Van gave Craven a five. I gave Craven a two. You gave it a two, and Steve gave it a three. Yeah. Understand, though.

I am generally, I go into a movie to enjoy. I'm generally more in the bad for superhero affair. Five is a very bad score for me. I go into movies to enjoy them, just not. The superhero movies have been so bad. At this point, I just want them to be watchable. At this point, I just want to be like I was at least entertaining. You know, I don't want to.

But you know what the problem is, Charles? It's not, okay, so this is the problem. I believe you. The problem is when stuff comes out that's actually good and you still shit on it. Listen, no, because here's the thing. Here's the thing. You're like, oh, he's doing a big. There could be stuff that, like, the audience loves that I'm just like, I don't like this shit.

I know. So what I'm saying is that makes people think that you kind of don't like the shit. Oh, there's stuff that comes out. When there's stuff that comes out, that's nerd shit that I like, I give it a good score. I know, but I'm talking about superhero shit. I'm just saying, so it's like, so when I'm saying, what's the last good superhero superhero? My man, my man, don't, pay you, X-Men, don't do that. Or X-Men 97.

Not setting you up. Don't do that. I still think it's bad. I still stand on it. I still think it's bad. X-Men 97 is when we lost hope. That's what she said. That's where we lost.

That's what we lost hope. We lost hope and we were like, you know. That's not, here's the thing. Charles is the little dirt. The funny thing is you're the only critical body that brings up X-Men 97. Nobody else in my life is just like, damn, Charles, you know like X-Men 97?

They're like, nigga, what's X-Men 97? Because it's our jobs. What are you talking about? And it is my job to be honest with the audience about shit I fuck with it. No, no, no, no. I'm not saying you're not being honest. I'm not saying you're not being honest. I'm not saying that all.

I'm saying that like the thing that made people think that maybe, or that I was, when I let go, when I was like, okay, maybe this, this is not Charles's cup of tea is then. So like, for me, if I'm saying, what I'm saying for me is like, if I like enjoy, I enjoy the stuff. So when I'm looking at it, I probably do rate it a little, I'm the reverse you, which is, by the way, should be criticized as much. And I do get criticized. I'm the reverse you. I'm probably, oh, whatever, whatever. But it's just, it's funny

because you, you, we want you on that wall. We need you. I will say, in fairness to me sometimes, I feel like when I do like certain shit, you like, but that's not what we as comic fans should like. Like, when I'm like, oh, I really like the venom movies, y'all like, come on, stop trolling.

You know what I'm saying? Or like, even Joker if all you do, like, I, it's not a good movie, but like, I enjoyed it for, what it was. I was like, this is fucking funny. And then if it's like, how could you enjoy this? And I'm just like, just as a movie saying, you know? I think that joke would have fallen to do is significantly worse than Captain America brave in the world.

Whoa. Easily. Easily. Easily. Easily. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's actually, there's actually good performances. You are.

You are. There's a, no. We're just so much better. than Captain America Brave New World. I wish we was a person. Honestly, thank you, even though you want to know what? Fuck it.

Fuck it. I don't care. I can say this right now. I think Captain America Brave New World is better than the fucking Penguin. Fuck it. I don't care.

Like, that's insane. Yeah, you didn't finish the penguin. Yeah, you didn't believe that. Now, they did you not know what you were talking about? I didn't finish. If we were being honest, I fell asleep during 10 or 15 minutes of Captain America. You didn't finish Captain America.

You didn't finish. But it finished the Palaidu. It's not. But yet you finish Folly Adieu. What the fuck? Because I ain't showing it. Because I ain't showing it. But once again, though, I'll say that like these movies that you're, that you like or so what was you said, Joker Falli Adieu and what was the other one you said?

Vettam. Vivenna. All the Vennam. I have fun of Vennam. But like the Joker Fully Adieu is an anti-superhero movie. Let me ask you a question. Why, if the thing was that Charles doesn't really enjoy the superhero movie that much, why would that be a big deal? I don't enjoy the anime.

I've tried the anime. I've tried to watch all the deposting, violent anime. The anime is great. The anime is crazy. I enjoy the anime. I've tried to enjoy the, I try to watch the anime. I enjoy the Asian cartoons. I tried.

was one of these eight. Look, last night I started reading it. Right? Stephen King book, It, yes. Right. I started reading it. I got about 100 pages

into it and I was like, I don't want to read this no more. Oh yeah, you got like an 80th of the way in. That book is a thousand pages long. I don't want to read this no more. I don't want to read this no more. It's too much. Yeah, it's a lot. No, my nigga. And then I have people telling me

about what happens in the actual book and how it's deep into the more? It's a lot. And I'm like, Steve, I read the book all of me. And, and, and, um,

and, and it's too much. It's too much. But that anime should be too much. I agree. That shouldn't too much. I agree. But to your question,

though, earlier, I feel like it's not that I don't like superhero movies anymore. I don't like this current era of superhero movies. And that's because I had such enjoyment with the first Spider-Man, the X-Men movies, early MCU, some of the DC shit.

And the product is just stepped on. The product has been stepped on, honestly, since end game, if we're being honest. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. But, yeah. So I'm comparing, I'm just, X-Men 97 was bullshit to me. Was the tell-tale moment. That was the tell-tale moment. It's fine.

And the penguin, and then X-Men 97 was the tail-tale moment. it. I saw a tweet, so I'm not like, but I saw a tweet today that I agreed with. They were like, yeah, the penguin kind of came out during a time where it was the prestige drought was it was real. And I'm going to be honest, there's a difference to me between like

watching the severance or watching the penguin. Like there just is a quality difference to me. Like, I could just tell. Like, I'm like, this ain't really that shit. This is something. I mean, frankly, you're just previewing the severance pod that we're going to be doing eventually. There's like, there's a, there's tears to

this and Penguin was just not a tear that I fuck with. I got, I got standard. You're a talented opinion. Look, let me tell you about this. I think this is one thing. It's like,

I like food. No, we're back here again. We know this. Say it, say it, gentlemen, say it.

We did the hamburger versus the steak. Nope. That's not what about, that's not all about the same. Go for it. It's not hamburger versus steak. Because those are still hardy dinner. her foods.

Okay. What I'm saying is you eat a food and you don't necessarily compare it like a cupcake is not the same as a steak. Cupcake and a steak. If you're comparing,

if you look at severance and then, or you look at the bear and like I wouldn't even compare severance or the bear to their dramas that I wouldn't compare those things to. Severance is so quirky

and so, and so whatever, there are dramas out there that I wouldn't compare severance to. Like, I wouldn't compare severance to Better Call Saul or compare severance to Breaking Bad. It wouldn't make any sense. And if you, in the heights that you get from Breaking Bad, Severance could not get there because it's not the same type of storytelling. And the heights that you get from Severance, Breaking Bad couldn't get there because it's not the same type of storytelling.

One storytelling is going to end with somebody getting half of their face blow it off, right? And the other one is going to be, I saw my any or my outy at this thing or whatever. Whatever, it's not the same deal. So, like, a robust criticism of severance of the penguin shouldn't involve, like, in my opinion, what you thought about severance because severance is a completely different type of storytelling. So that's where I disagree. So when I'm looking at something, it's like, all right, what is it trying to do? Or, like, what is it part of? So to me, when I say like, oh, if I compare it to your point, like, Severance the Bear, whatever, whatever, these are all different shows, all different genres.

But obviously, they are all indebted to a certain era of prestige TV storytelling and modern TV storytelling. And when I look at stuff like the Penguin sometimes, I'm just like, well, if I'm looking at this as a mob story, if I'm looking at this is something that anchors at HBO Sunday night, if I'm looking at the acting, the writing, the performances, I'm just like, this is kind of hard. hokey and corny in a way where I'm just like I don't buy the reality of this world where it's like to your point even if all of these genres and these shows are different or whatever because you're comparing it. No, when I'm talking about like believing the reality

of a show. In order to do that you have to fall into the show. It's the show's the show. Here's the thing. A show can either do that for me as an individual viewer or it can't. If I'm looking at this mobster movie, I mean monster TV show and I'm like

All of these gangsters are cartoons, they're idiots. It's like that takes me out. I'm assuming you've seen The Godfather, right? Yeah. And you've seen Goethellers. Yeah. Two completely different depictions of the American Mafia, right?

Correct. If you were comparing Goodfellers to the Godfather, Goodfellers would make any sense. But here's the thing. When I'm watching Goodfellas or I'm watching The Godfather, those are perfect examples of movies. where I'm just like, I am falling into the reality of this mob story, this family, and this world.

If we take something like the penguin, not even comparing it to those, just like, if I'm just watching the penguin, I shouldn't be keep thinking, I'm like, why are these the dumbest gangsters? Like, why can't I even believe that these are characters that are controlling Gotham? They seem cartoon. It almost seemed like, oh, you over indexed on the comic book. And that's just me. Like it's like, that's not me saying I get what. That's what I said. The comic book stuff is the stuff that takes you.

That's my point. But sometimes, the comic book stuff is the stuff that takes you out of it a lot of times. No, because I think there's, there's examples of TV shows and movies, whether it's like Batman movies, Daredevil,

other stuff where I'm like, oh, the comic book gangster elements of this work in certain ways. And they took, when they tamp them down, when they turn them down a little bit, it works for you. The more comic book he is,

the more abolish it. But sometimes, but sometimes if you take a change, James Gunn. James Gunn has a way of like turning the dial on the comic book shit to fucking 10, 20 and it works. A lot of times it's just how you land the plane. So I don't always need my comic book shop to be like turned down. A lot of times I like when it's amped up. Fantastic 4. I like the fact that it seems like really amped up. It's just when you amp it up, it's a fine line and you have to walk that fine line because if you don't, it ends up kind of looking tank.

Yeah. I mean, this is what I'll say. Captain America. No. All right. All right. All right. Great. Awesome. I mean, that's, I mean, basically, that's it. Captain America. That's it. No more Captain America is canceled. What last question I have for you guys? One last question. To you right now, is Anthony Mackey Captain America?

Yes. Yeah. False? And that's not, no. Here's it. Anthony Mackey to me is not Captain America and that has nothing to do with Anthony Mackey. Like yes, on paper in the movies for the foreseeable future, yes, is Captain America.

But if you're taught, I don't think that if this movie and the MCU and the powers that B believe that Anthony Mackey was Captain America, I think that more of this movie would have revolved around him, more of the marketing would have revolved around him,

more of the story and the emotional beats. And I think that that's the ultimate. failing of this movie, where I think they were half-stepping in a way that they don't tend to do with white characters, where it's like, if I'm just being honest, Steve Rogers was Captain America, because obviously he's the first Captain America, but Chris Evans got to cook, and those movies could succeed on his back, where this movie, it felt like at a certain point they made the distinction, we don't believe in a black Captain America. So we have to throw Celestial bullshit, Adamantium, Red Hulk,

the leader, the Serpent Society, and all this other shit to mask the fact that we did not empower any of the people on this movie to truly sell us that a black man could be Captain America. I don't think that's not I don't think that's necessarily

untrue. But I do think the best portion of his arc was in Falcon and a Soldier when he has to convince everybody that I'm Captain America and I'm black and it's different, but need to get over. Right?

Like, that was a song of art that I don't want to say wasted in the show, but they they use that in the show. You can't double back on that. Right. And so then it's kind of like what, what do we have left for this character?

I think that's the tough part. That's the thing where he kind of has nothing to do because we kind of, the stuff that we would have given to do in this movie, we gave it to him in another show. And so now we, what are we supposed to what do we kind of do here they were kind of stuck i feel like he there was an arc for him but you just couldn't do it again in this movie and it kind of left you left you wanting

and once again i will say this i'm not faking the funk i don't think a lot of this is anthony macky's fault or the director like it's this movie got away from him um and it's just sometimes that happens with the movie and i think this movie is a perfect example of like it was trumped and and they just could not land this point and they couldn't fix it. Not Danny Ramirez, though. Shout out, man. All those guys of Top Gun Maverick, they doing their thing.

You know, Pullman is in the Thunderbolts. They got a coyote. He's in a mission of possible. And Miles Teller is still jobless. So that's tough. Well, my mom's got the gorge on Apple TV. He's got an Apple TV coming out right now. I just saw that.

It was him and Anatoil Joy, right? Yeah. Was it good? George. Did you all see they asked him about Fantastic Four? It's like, I wish him the best. You know, nobody want to be in a flop. I'm like, God, damn.

But he was like, I saw the trailer. It was fantastic. Great. Still got it. I saw Miles Taylor walking through, I was on Mars Taylor walking through, I think it was the, the, which one is the,

which casino is it that's across? Maybe the MGM brand, one of those casinos were like five pizza stacked up. He was drunk, five pieces stacked up, and he was eating off the pizza of the top. I was like, my kind of guy. I don't know why I was. Living the dream. In Vegas, Kevin Woods Casino is a casino right across from the city center.

He's walking around. He's got five pizzas. That's like literally five small pizza boxes. And the box at the top, he's with some girl, and he's eating the pizza. And she's trying to get him to come up to the room. I got enough pizza for everybody having a pizza party in Vegas. Shout out to Miles Teller. Good for him, man.

Good for him. That's a wrap. You guys, we were honest. I wanted this movie to be better. I really did. Like, I wanted, it sucks. I don't want a shit on a fucking, on fucking Black Captain America on Black History Month.

I didn't really want to. We could, we could have a lot. We could lie. We could say, guys. We don't have a lot of y'all. This one was a tough one. You probably hear it in our voice because we're remote, but also because it was like, you know me.

I do sometimes like being negative. but this was one where I'm like, I hate it had to be us. Like I had to be tough. Yeah, tough. I mean, look, I will say that I do think Anthony Mackey is Captain America. And I think that that is one thing that the movie had to be done,

had to do. But I think that really he was Captain America for me after Falcon and Winter Soldier. I actually really loved and enjoyed Falcon and Winter Soldier. Like, I really, really, really liked that until the last episode is just terrible. All right, let's get out of here. Um, well, that's a wrap. It's a bummer.

We did it, though. We, we, we, we were, we did it. We're, you guys, we're here. You know, it's, we hate to put a black man down during Black History Month. Well, we don't put any black men down. You will, Charles, you said you didn't believe in them. So, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is you tap dancing on the grave right now.

You know what I'm saying. This is you, you showed up to, if we're going to be, if we're going to be honest. You show to the funeral. You, you know, you are. going to be honest. This all started. My beat with Anthony Mackey started because I did believe in him. And honestly, maybe he knew that the movie was going to be a stinker.

And he's like, I don't believe in myself. And maybe he wasn't bad at me. Jesus Christ. What the world? What in the world? How did you put those together? Where did you get that from? I could honestly see why he was mad at me.

He was on his second third reshoot. He's like, this light-skinned nigger coming up to me saying he believe in me. Jesus Christ, man. I'm just letting you know, Charles. I'm telling all of y'all. All of y'all. We're taking all this out. Y'all going to run into these people.

We're taking all this out. No, Charles, we're taking it out. Why don't we take it out? Charles is my business. Y'all, I, here's the asshole. How was I the asshole from being like, I believe in you, Anthony Mackey? And him getting an attitude. Charles, Charles, let me tell you something the Taney Faye said to

Bowen Yang. Authenticity is dangerous and expensive. And it's starting to get more expensive. I was authentic with fucking Anthony Mackey. And I said, I believe in you. You might be up in America. Clearly. Yeah.

And guess what? Clearly. You wanted to have an attitude about it. And guess what? Do I believe his cap anymore after this movie? I'm not so sure. But we're taking all this out of the house. And they first thing, they look at you in the eyes, like,

I believe in you, man. It's out of pocket. That's out of pocket. out of pocket. That's out of pocket. Honestly, if we're looking at the Ryan Tomato score, I'm damn near the only nigga

who's who believed in him. So how am I to ask? You gave that shit of two. You just gave that shit. Oh my goodness. Um, let me go back to it real quick. The rotten tomato score is actually going down.

Is it after 3? I thought it was like 51. Well, hey, it's making money, though. Hey. Good. Hey. Hey. Good for them.

Good for them. Good for them. Thursday, 12 million in Thursday previews. There we go. Gotta start somewhere. There's a Thursday previews. But the theater was full when I was in that bitch. And how was the response?

That's a wrap. Program reminder. On Monday, House of All right, has a brave new world. I'm sure Joanna will be a lot of fun for that one. He was a big fan of the movie. On Tuesday, the Ring of Verse crew

unites for our first Dungeons and Dragons campaign. You guys aren't going to want to miss this. Stuff was all in one. He carried us. Steve was in his element as the best dungeon master ever. Steve was, remember I want you guys to go back to the energy that Steve had

when he announced the Jordie LaForge pick. Yeah, with a charm and a plume. Played with a charm and a plume. Bala Varburton, that was Steve. What a dickhead, that guy was. That was Steve the entire Rehn Quest. He was having so much fun. I love Steve so much.

It was so much fun to see Steve. He was having so much fun. Let me tell you how much I love the Ring Rear Quest, and I'm being for real. I didn't realize that over here on Robertson, like near where I live, and y'all could learn why I live, if you got pull up, I'm going to put the fucking glove on you.

We learn. We learn. We know. Van got that thing on him. Yeah, he keeps you ready. I don't care if y'all know why y'all pull up, it's going to go. It almost happened to somebody a couple of weeks ago I was on a walk, and I had my earphones in, and somebody goes, is that Bowman?

And I turn around. I'm like, are you Van? I was about to, about the, hey, you know, watch out. But I didn't realize

that there's like a D&D shop. I don't know if you know it, Steve, like an adventure shop up here where they play games. They have like three, four tables in here when they play games.

I actually stopped walking and watch them play the little games for like 20 or 25 minutes. It's pretty much fun. So, we got more games, because this was a D&D. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they weren't playing D&D. It wasn't, they were playing like smaller games. Like people were playing like and they were rolling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was very fun to watch. I might go over and join them if they let black people in there.

So you guys aren't going to want to miss ring requests. It's going to be a lot of fun, man. We had so much fun. I can't wait to do it again. I would do it every month. On Wednesday, the Midnight Board's return with the Blackest Movies draft. More fun for you guys. More Steve.

More content. More Steve. More Steve, man. Give us more Steve. More Steve, more Steve, more Steve. Our producers are, I had a joke, but I'm going to leave it because people say I get too freaky on the pod. I'm going to leave it.

I'm going to leave you. I've heard what you guys say. You guys say, I'm a pervy old man, van, uncle. I've heard the criticism. I take the criticism, guys. The plane is at the runway. The plane is at the runway. That was a good joke, too.

I do a good joke. My producers are Alea S-O-B-Zanair. Jonathan, I don't want to come to work, Kermann. Jomey D. Jomey the family man. Okay, man.

Hashtagogy, Joey the family man on social. Nah, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that. A digital production from Arjuna Ramgapal. I see what y'all doing. I saw that,

Kerm. You thought I looked at that slide. Jonathan, I don't want to come to work, Kermah. Nick, you got it. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Nah.

Test it. Negative trust. We're not. Nah, we're not, man. Stay your sick ass inside. My black ass would not come to work. Kerm innocent. I did not want John.

I don't want to come to work. It's fine. Okay, it's cool. All right. Curm innocent. Yeah, leave him alone, man. Leave him alone. Chuck, take us out.

Cap Fort stinks. I will never be an MCW lackey. But contrary to popular belief, I still believe in Anthony Madison. That's good. Thank you.