The Rising’s Growing Together Podcast - Building Unshakeable Confidence, Job Hopping Strategically and Quit the Rat Race with Shamini Sliney

Episode Date: June 21, 2026

Welcome back to The Rise and Growing Together with Billie and Charlotte! In this week's episode, we sit down with our brilliant friend Shamini Sliney to unpack what it really means to step out of your comfort zone, back yourself in your career, and live life with zero regrets. From turning down a traditional medical path after a shocking open day experience, to mastering the brutal world of recruitment, Sham shares her exact blueprint for building resilience and being "comfortable being uncomfortable." We also dive deep into the emotional reality of uprooting her entire life from London to Spain with two young kids, 5 cats, and 9 suitcases after losing her mum. If you are a woman looking to reclaim your identity outside of motherhood, learn how to successfully pitch your worth for a massive salary jump, or simply need a reminder that you only live once, this episode is for you. ✨ Join us for our upcoming Women's Event! We are creating a safe space to help women build self-confidence, learn the art of selling themselves, and unlock their true potential. Details at the end of the episode! Don't forget to LIKE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE for more unfiltered conversations every single week

Guys, what an episode that I've got for you. Tune in because this is a really interesting, great conversation. My guest today is just the definition of a modern career woman. She is bold, she's ambitious, she teaches us some of her inside tricks of how to boost your salary, as well as the journey that it took to move countries after having children. She's refreshingly honest that it's not always easy. It is really hard to balance and try and have it all. and she tells us a little bit more about how she tries to do that

by showing up for herself first and foremost and doing her best and trying to make the decisions that's best for her family. So I know that you'll learn a lot from today. It's a great episode. Tune in and leave your comments and don't forget to like and subscribe. Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of The Rising's Growing Together with me, Billing.

Nishalo. And today we have our guest, Sham. Welcome to the chef. Hey! It's good to be here. Thanks for joining us. So excited for you to be here today. We actually met through the kids.

So we're mum friends. And I've never met you. No. So I'm really excited about this one. Yeah. Because I have no information of anything whatsoever apart from, is this? Kaysen's crush. Yes, mom.

So I'm not sure how. Obviously, that's the only way. hear about you or maybe I don't know where the kids I don't know for me or taught him or he's found the word but he uses the word crush oh yeah so that's all I've heard of you oh good his crush um so again

it's my daughter that's the crush an age appropriate crush no they uh since you kind of joined the school they just been really good friends and I think to be fair I think because Kaysen's not your typical boisterous boy football he gets on really well with the girls. Yeah.

And yeah, they've just really kind of gelled really similar kind of interests and things like that. So, yeah, I remember when he was like, oh, can we have a play date? And you're always like, yeah, okay. And then we met, didn't we? Yeah. And then it was like three hours had passed. Yeah. The kids were like, come we go home now?

We're like, no, no, no. Kids five more minutes. You created a friendship. We did. Yeah. And it's always hitting this with like when you meet. through the kids because you have no idea what the parents are like if you're going to get on. Exactly.

And actually we've got so many similarity. I mean, both our husbands are called Liam. Yeah, there's one straight away. Two kids. Yep. Quite similar older kids and then younger kids, I think as well. Yeah, exactly. Got the car.

Two youngest are in a way. And then the more kind of crazy ones. Crazy ones. Yeah. And then in terms of like career as well, more of like the corporate career. Yeah. And, yeah, husband's, you know, work for himself kind of thing. So, yeah, we've got quite a lot of similarities, which is why I think we hit it off.

Definitely. So, yeah, excited to dive right in. I was like, here. I'm good. So we always start by asking the guests the same first question. Okay. What is one saying or quote that you are living your life by right now or that's suitable for this chapter? God, that's hard.

He's starting a really hard on straight away. I think you only live once. I know that's like a really obvious one but I definitely feel like I live by that all the time. I'm just like this moment is up for grabs now. Just take it. Just do it. Go, you know, you live, you only live once.

Yeah, so don't waste fine. I agree. Why have we made it like an icky quote? Yeah, you know. It's not. You should. Why are we not? Yeah.

But it is. I agree. I think we should try and do it more. I think it's one of those things that, like you say, you hear all the time, and I think we said it on the last guest with their quote, is that 100% believe it, but it's just hard sometimes to remember that. And even the other day I got really stressed over just everything that's going on.

And then I was like talking to a friend of mine, she's going through more significant things than me at the moment. I was like, I'll just shut up because my troubles are silly troubles, like not to diminish what I'm going to. But at the same time, like, you know, with other things that have gone on, like, it just puts into perspective. Definitely that. I definitely think I have to do that quite a lot.

Let's not stress so much over the little things because, you know. And let's just live a little, like you saying, we get one shot at this. Let's just enjoy it. Yeah, definitely. As best as we can. I think it's hard, though, like I say, with all the things that we have to juggle, which we can talk more about. Yeah, and it's hard.

Exactly. You have to remind yourself. It's normal. It is normal to have days when you just, Oh, go away. Yeah. Literally. But then most of that time, you just, again, you've got to remind yourself,

there's nothing, come on, you're all right, we're okay. Literally that. You've got your health, you know, you've got the important things. Sometimes God, it sounds really, I'm literally like, I've got my kids, you know, everyone's safe. Yeah. We're happy. Like it's okay. I mean, we're not always happy, you know, but.

Yeah. No, I think like I say, the main things like health, being together, love all of that is the main thing. So, yeah, we have to remind ourselves about something. Yeah, YOLO. Literally, YOLA. That's what I should have said. Should have gone really, yeah. I'm not calling out.

I'm not like even like the finger of the power. That's what I mean, but we do it. Imagine when the younger kids watch this. Oh, God, I'd be like, you're so uncool-munk. So embarrassing. What are three words your closest, like, friends and family would use to describe you? Okay. Wow.

positive, definitely. A bit crazy. Yeah, I like that. A bit spicy. Yeah, a bit spicy. I like that one. God, just really open. I'd say really open.

Yeah, just like in both ways. Like, I'm very open, honest, and just very kind of open to receiving stuff of people as well. Like if they want to talk about anything, like just no judgment. Do you know? I know that's a lot of words, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just trying to explain it.

And have you always been like that? Or do you think as you've got older, maybe you've changed, you're quite different to how you were growing up? No, I think I've always been like that. Yeah? Yeah. I think I've definitely always had those elements. I think a lot of it comes from my mum.

My mum's always been like that. So I think that's just been sort of the way that I've been. I think people who are quite open can be very approachable. Yes. You know, anyway. When someone is so open with their own lives or, you know, whatever it makes you want to kind of share. Yeah, you want to do, don't you.

I definitely feel that energy for sure because I'm very like, oh, this is how I'm feeling. And even though we've just met. That's such a good trait to have as a, you know, as a person. I think so because I think a lot of people nowadays, especially like our age group, when you first meet someone, it's like my walls are up. Here's my last.

You have to bring it down. Whereas I think if you start with my walls are down and I'll build it up if you, you know, show me things that I don't like. Yeah. But I think you get so much more out of people in life by starting in the, you know, show me who you are and I'm open to it. Yeah.

And then if I need to distance it, then that comes later. Definitely. Yeah, just having that element of trust and like just knowing. Yeah. I'm definitely like, I'm definitely very much, you know, yeah, you're a good person. You're obviously a good person until you show me otherwise. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of people are like, you have to earn my trust. Yeah. It was actually like, you've got it until you show me that you don't deserve it. Yeah.

Yeah. then you're just sort of like, you know, you're having to sell on a negative, in a way, you know, which I'm probably quite guilty for. But you can't sit here and say that, you know, because I am very much like, I've got my friends, I don't need any more friends, I don't want to know anyone else. No, and I also get that because you've got time.

And I don't know why I am. There's no actual reason. It's just how I've always been, isn't it? It's not like you've been really burnt by anyone. No, no, it's just how I am, isn't it? But then when I do talk to people, because I'm not someone who would sit there and not talk to someone, I actually am quite talking to you.

You can see that. Yeah, yeah. And when I'm doing it, I love it. Yeah. But when someone says it to me, I'm like, oh, no. Because then you, I don't know, sometimes you're sort of thinking, oh, my God, how am I going to fit this into my schedule? Do you know, like, oh, I want to get to know this person.

I want to hang out with this person. Yeah. Maybe we just overthinking it. I think it's for me as well. Like, I don't really like the superficial fake conversations. Like, like you give it to me deep. Let's talk about it. Let's get into it.

Let's debate. And I think a lot of the social scene can be very small talk. Yeah. You walk away thinking is that conversation real or not. That's a bit boring to me, yeah. Definitely. And it's funny because, like you say, she's very much like, oh no, no. But then when we're out there, people are probably more approachable.

I think I've got a bit of a rest of a bit. It's strange, isn't it? But until you actually stop talking about. Yeah. But it is, it's true. I just wanted to say it because obviously everyone is probably looking at, thinking, well, this is going, you don't you. You're not approachable.

I am in a way of like, first thought, I'm like, oh no. But then when I'm there, it's just like... Oh, yeah. I think everyone that meets you knows that, yeah, you're very friendly. But yeah, you're... You never usually want to be putting yourself in those. And again, if you're my friend, you're my best friend.

Yeah. If you're my enemy. That's it. Woo! Don't want to be on that side. So give us a little bit of background on your job because I don't think I've met anyone with a job like yours or anything even quite similar.

Yeah. Quite unique actually. It is, yeah. No, it definitely is. I definitely feel like when I say what I do, everyone's like, what's that? Oh, well, people always jokes that I'm Chandler from friends. Like, what do you even do? What do you do?

Really? I don't know. I can't tell you, but I'm sure she explains it. What was it? Transpont, trans, transponder. That's what I do. That's how you should answer from now on. Even my sister's like, my friends asked me and I don't know how to say it.

And I'm like, God's sake, yeah. Yeah. Tell us your child. My Charlene job. Okay. So my Chandler job is. So I work in medical communications, which again, no one's ever heard of. You could say drug dealer.

No. A legal drug dealer. A legal one, yeah. No, it's very much not. So I think in any other industry, it would be classed as advertising or marketing. But in medicals, you can't advertise or market drugs. Yeah. So for obvious reasons, you can only communicate them.

So I sit in between pharmaceutical companies and, you know, the healthcare professionals. And the idea is that any of the new drugs, trials, therapies, whatever it is that they want to communicate and they want to get out there into the market, we have to take that information in a very unbiased, very kind of strategic way, look at how we communicate that to healthcare practitioners. So that can be in any forms. Traditionally, it was always manuscripts. So just really long 40-page papers that went through, this was the trial. Here are the methods. Here are the results. And then doctors would have to take that and then make their decision on their own. Obviously, we now live in a day and age where there's no way people have time to do this. Like with everything, information has become more condensed. It's become way more succinct, way more bite sized. So we've got a look at, exactly, more presentable, 100% more able. Like we need doctors to be able to take in way more information than they did before in the same amount of time, probably even less time. Let's be honest. than they had before. So the idea is, yes, we still do manuscripts because you have to legally

have that information online. But the reality is no one's reading it. So we then have to look at ways of creating digestible pieces out of that. It can be videos. We work with people called key opinion leaders who are kind of the lead doctors in that field. So whether it's cardiology, whether it's ophthalmology, we'll pick out sort of 10 to 15 of the kind of stars in that area. And that's who a lot of doctors will look to for information, right? You're the expert. We look up to that. Exactly.

We trust your opinion. 100%. They're not looking to pharmaceutical companies. They're looking to them. Yeah. You know, they're going to look at them to see, what are you using? What do you do with your patients? Well, that kind of, that translates, doesn't it?

Because like, oh, if a company is selling me, I feel like I'm being salty. But if my friend said, I use them and they're really, really good. Exactly. You trust that opinion. 100%. Or your managers or, you know, your bosses. Exactly. So, so yeah.

So we then look at, so we'll work with them. And they might do a video about that trial in their own words. It's very much kind of right. You look at this information. You know, we'll, you know, can you have a look at this? Take a look at what it means. And then could we film you doing a video talking about it, for example? It could be an animation.

We've done games before, like interactive patient games, where doctors can literally go on and go, right, walk over to the bedside. This is the conditions they're telling you. What do you think you should do? So kind of different ways of education. Yeah, just creative new ways. Exactly. So it's interesting for sure.

A lot of my job is kind of, you know, client management. I work with my clients who are pharmaceutical companies. And then sort of looking at how we distill that information down or what is the best way to communicate that. It's also looking at things a bit more strategically. So in an industry where you can't market, it's thinking about things a bit more smart. So really, you know, here's an example.

Diabetes drugs. There's tons and tons of diabetes. drugs out there. It's been around for a long time. How do you make yourself stand out? I know. Let's do a trial where we look at can one drug that treats diabetes also treat cardiovascular and kidney health, for example, because this is coming from someone in the industry, but we know that people with diabetes tend to also have those complications. So taking three drugs, could they take one? Yeah. And actually, yes, so a company has done that. And so it's looking at, right, let's do that. And now this is actually really positive for the patient.

Yeah. It's positive for the doctor. And it's just positive overall, but also the pharmaceutical company will obviously make money out of, you know. So you're looking at like the unique selling points. Literally. As well as then how to deliver that information.

Yes. To capture their interest. Exactly. And essentially sell them without selling them. Exactly that. It's like, it's selling. It's ethical selling. Because it is almost like,

this is better for the patient. And that is how I have to say like, I know there's a lot on like big farmer at the moment, especially after COVID and everything. I know there's a lot kind of a scrutiny and don't get me wrong. I don't care. But honestly, don't get it. No, but don't get me wrong.

Like, I've had my issues with it. You know, I do feel like my mom was let down massively by the drugs that she was on and what was prescribed to her. So I totally see benefits and natural methods. You know, my personal opinion is separate to my corporate career. You know, and yes, I also could see the impact, you know. So, but then I do feel like a lot of the work. that we are doing with them, or at least on the surface,

is supposed to be what's best for the patient. And a lot of it is patient-centricity and, you know. Well, you're not a medical sales route. You're not going like, I need to hit targets and quotas and I just want to sell you this drug so that I can, you know, take meet my targets. No, no, no.

You're actually doing it in a, like, much more ethical way. Yeah, and doctors need to know, don't they? Like, they need to know what drugs are out there. At the end of the day, we can't live without drugs. Like, a lot of it is necessary. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's good. good that there are people out there like you that are doing it ethically for the best in,

you know, care of the client. Yeah. And I think you're right. From years, we've started with a base of a, of a, of a medication, for example. Yeah. And we've all kept that same brand, even a brand. You know, everyone goes to a brand. Yeah.

And I'm like, that's not the medication. No. Look at the ingredient. Yeah, it's the same. Yeah. And everyone's just gone on this same brand, brand, brand, brand. Yeah. say if there's people out there who are actually looking into taking the best possible

medication for these patients in the best way to treat each case. And it should be individual. Exactly. Then actually that's better way. Yeah. You know, rather than just taking, oh, that brand because that's what we know. But it doesn't, the brand makes no difference. What do you know? Yeah. So I don't know if you knew this, but like, so for, okay, a pharmacy is a company, when they first create the pill, so let's take Neuophon, for example, right? They were, I think they were the first ones to do ibuprofen or one of the first. And then when you're the first,

you get a patent. So you've got 10 to 15 years where you're the only ones allowed to have it. As soon as that patent ends, anyone can copy and paste the exact same. To the point of companies like Tiva, like manufacturing pharmaceutical companies, will literally make ibuprofen in the same, they'll make the same tablet. Yeah. And then one set will go over here and have a stamp of Neuophon on it. One set will go over here and have the Tesco stamp on it or whatever you want to do it and then be packaged separately or they'll be shaped differently and they'll both have different prices and it is the exact same pill. And because the patent has ended, you know, companies like Neurofen or whatever, us doing everything they can to be like, we're better, we're

better. That's why we're here. It's not true. You're not. The ingredients are exactly the same. It's not even like when you market a food and then, you know, you've got slightly different ingredients or one tastes better than the other. Nope, they are identical. They're made in the same factory in the same way they've just maybe been shaped slightly differently or yeah and i do think we're getting better with that more aware in even food checking yeah what ingredients we are putting into ourselves and the same i think with medication yeah i think we're getting better and it is nice to know that um again because i am a different of yours yeah no but you're at the field yeah and it's hard isn't it when you are in a medical side field yeah you've got these opinions um you know that people might think

I'm a little bit, what's the word, controversial. I don't know what the word is. I do get that. But it's true, you know, there's this part of me which I do agree with and believe. And then there's parts and I'm like, I'm not so showing with. So it is nice to know that there's a company, you know, of that middleman who are taking the best and trying to give them the best. Well, that's what they're supposed to do. And really take everyone with that in the meantime, you know.

Yeah, definitely. So you want to have other pills and not really know what they do it. Exactly. And that's the point. Long term effects are huge right now. 100%. And we can't know those long-term effects. You can't until they've happened. So it is a worry. Like it is. And it's a genuine concern. I do get it. And, you know, I went vegan for a while, you know, and I watched that, the health documentary. I don't know if either of you've seen that. And that was very much about sort of the conspiracy of the health industry and how they've been telling us to eat meat and telling us to eat dairy. Because then they can treat you for all the diseases that come from doing it, you know. And I could see it when they were talking about the amount of money that goes into Congresses and things. Because I, I see. I see. see that money. I build those budgets. Like I can see how much money farmer spend on getting their drug out there. Yeah. So when you look at America, I think that's why. America, yeah. I mean,

that country is definitely, you know, not the America it once was. And it is because it is about money and like their whole healthcare industry, like having to have insurance, like medical sales reps selling drugs. Yeah. All of those things, the money that they make. Um, And, you know, the conspiracy that you hear like, oh, yeah, well, they've cured cancer, but that person's disappeared and this, that and the other. And, like, I'm glad I don't live in a country where it does feel like my health is actually someone's profit. Yeah.

Like, at least. Yeah. But it is, that is a tricky one. The cancer one, I do think about that often because I do think about how many people depend, like, okay, how many people depend on the jobs that come from chemotherapy, that come from the tablets that are constantly being administered. And actually you do think if one pill did solve it, you know, that would, that would destroy. It might even be that might destroy as many lives as, you know, and all these people that lose their jobs,

that they don't have a, you know, a livelihood anymore. Not to say that's right at all, but you do think about it as a potential reason to keep something like that quiet. I don't, you know. That's literally another hole though, isn't it, you could go into when you start thinking about all this thing. Literally, we can go on forever. But no. I'm having nightmares for weeks. I know.

But from the base of it, I think, again, you know, we were going back to before, like, about just trusting until someone proves me otherwise. Like, I am still, like, I like to think that we do need, we do need drugs. We do need medicines, like 100%, you know, and they do keep people alive. And they're meant to be there for a good reason. I'm very, I'm a scientist. Like, I did maths and chemistry at university. So I know the science behind it.

So I do feel like this is logical. It's the same with everything. It's always good. and there's always bad in every industry and every career path. Were you always wanting to go into medicine? Obviously you did science as a degree. Is that always the plan? Well, yeah, the plan.

Oh, God. So I'm Sri Lankan in terms of, I was actually born in Sri Lanka, moved to England when I was three, so very much raised in England. But grown up in sort of a Sri Lankan household. And yeah, that Asian culture is very much, you're going to be a doctor. Or a lawyer. Yeah.

Or an engineer. You're going to be a lawyer, doctor, engineer. Actually, my parents are very disappointed than I'm not a doctor. And apparently medical communications is not quite enough. You're close, but you're not quite enough.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, how dare you have a corporate career where you can actually be flexible and support your family really well, earning more than a doctor, but it's still not good enough. I haven't got that title, all right? Exactly.

I need the DR before. And I was like, listen, I'll do a PhD at some point. Just. You know. In a moment, of God. So, yeah, so it's very much like, you're going to be a doctor. And, yeah, I was good academically at school and it just made sense. So I was like, okay, cool, I'll just go into medicine and just had that in my head and sort of did everything in that way.

I have a very creative side, which I was very much told as a hobby. So I like to sing. I like doing musical theater. It's something I've always done, like, ever since I was young and I was always like, oh, you know, you're really good. And that's, you know, that's fine. but it's good as a hobby, you know. I think a lot of, I think not just the Asian content. I think a lot of people see performing arts and the creative side as not something

you really get into. Because it is, there is like. It's really hard to make a career out of it, I think, more than anything. Literally that. It's possible, but it's tough. And I totally get why. And I am grateful because, yes, as much as I consider and be like, oh, you know, I wish I'd done that.

Like, come on, let's be honest. You know, I'd be not living in. Spain, I'd be on the street busking somewhere maybe going on, man, I wish I had my science degree. You know, so the reality is different. You've got to explore your creative side. Definitely.

And also have your career. And I think the benefit of that then you could choose. Yeah, well, you say that. In a way, if you never did enjoy that side of it as a job, you could have turned maybe your hobby into a job Not necessarily becoming the superstar, but making people into superstars.

You know, it's all those things. 100%. A little bit more choice, isn't it? Definitely. And I definitely feel that now. Like now as time begins to free up, well, I say free up, we'll see. But if I can make time for it, I do want to get back into my singing. I do want to, I've got this, I've got this mic set up as about as far as I got.

I've done that. I've downloaded audacity. That's about it. I'm like ready to kind of, okay, now I have to actually sing. something, you know, so I'd like to get back into it, but exactly that. Now I can do it, especially with the internet now and you can just do it now. It's not like you have to go and audition and live in LA for, I got to live here and be really close to it or whatever. So, but yeah, so I got to year 12. Yeah, I got to year 12 being like, yeah, I'm doing medicine.

I'm going to be a doctor. It's fine. I picked all my subjects at A level, maths, chemistry, biology and physics. Just thought I'd make it really easy for myself. also one of the teachers was like oh girls don't really do physics and I was like well I'm going to do it then yeah that's good yeah so you definitely have that personality I was like I'm doing it then yeah it's yeah like confidence like because sometimes it is hard to be the one the odd one out who's going to go and do something yeah if someone tells me they can't do something I'm like right I'm doing it I think that's a really good trait I was going to say yeah it's a very good because I Otherwise you just become a sheep and you follow you more.

You're like, well, I am then. Yeah, definitely. Especially when he was like, girls don't do physics. I was like, wow, I'm going to show you now. Yeah, yeah. I think I've always been like that as well. Yeah. Good, as we should be.

It doesn't really matter, you know, if you say I can or can't do it. Like, if I want to do it, I'm going to do it. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think that's so important, isn't it? Sure. And then I, so I was very much kind of set on medicine. And then I remember because I went to Imperial in London,

for an open day for medicine. And I went along to this open day and they were cutting up a dead body. And they literally had an actual body on the table and it stank. And there was blood everywhere. And I just was like, you're basically told about the academic side of medicine all the time.

It's really hard academically. I was like, yeah, I can do that. They were like, get to study for eight years. Yep, I can do that. There's all these exams are really hard. No, I can do that. I academically, I am there. I never thought about the practical side of what you're actually doing medicine-wise.

I was like, I'm not, I don't want to do this. This is a little bit much. I was like, I want to just go back to the paper where I can show you the parts of the body of the anatomy. But actually seeing it in real life, I was like, well, I don't like this. And so in that moment, I was like, I'm not doing this. And I just turned around and said, I'm not doing this. I need to do something else. And my dad was like, what do you mean?

I was like, I really, I don't want to do that as a job. And I started to think about everything else. I started to think about what actually being a doctor in the NHS meant. And, you know, lots of hours, back to that shifts. I think everyone knows that. I think a lot of your responsibility is like not your own. And it's always very bureaucratic. Like you can't always do the things that you want to do or help in the way that you want to help.

Your hands are tired a little bit and you go into it to help people. Yeah. But there's so much processes and stuff. Yeah. I think it's made the medical field, especially for like doctors and nurses. Yeah. And GPs and things are really, really difficult. 100%.

I always hear this. Like, same with like teachers. A lot of the public sector, for sure. I just feel exactly that. Their hands are tied. Yeah. Lots of bureaucracy. So I just, I thought about that.

I thought about the fact that I did want to have a family and be present with my children at some point. And just thought, how am I going to do that? Like, and do this. And I don't think I even want to do this. And actually, and I just had a bit of, reading and I thought okay I'm going to carry on I've done science now so I'm going to go ahead and do science

you know at university so I went ahead and did maths and chemistry I thought get that degree behind me and then see yeah see what happens um and then I came out of uni um and I thought I just want to do something I've done academics now for so long I've been very academic and yeah you know everyone's going on now do a master's degree and now do this and I thought no I want to do something really corporate now. I'm going to go into something where I can develop sales skills. I actually saw one of your podcast recently about sales skills. And I thought, I want to do something like that. Like really, I want to put on a suit and go into work. Business role. Yeah. Exactly. So I went to recruitment. So I did recruitment for a couple of years. And it was

really hard in a different way. You know, it was, I had the confidence and stuff to go to go in and talk to people and that side of things. I thought that was really important to develop and work on. But also I felt that the resilience that you needed. Oh my God. People were rude. Honestly, I think I think every kid like young teenager, young adult should do that. Should do a couple of years. It will give you everything you need. Literally. I learned more in that job and recruitment than I did at uni. Like hands down. Like I had all this knowledge of whatever and you can learn that any time but my god that what i learned about being like okay it's fine like doing things that i couldn't like to i didn't feel like i could do picking up the phone for four hours a day

standing up for power hours and just being like next next next for me it was just the biggest thing like yeah you've got the communication skills negotiation resilience yeah being comfortable being uncomfortable is the top skill that comes with all those things it's just this is really uncomfortable. I really don't want to walk into this business and get shut down, but fuck out, I'm about to do it anyway. Exactly. And just, yeah, being comfortable, being uncomfortable. And I saw Tony Robbins, which is, you know, huge, you know, life coach motivational speaker. And he said the number one like skill that all his top billionaire friends have. Yeah. Is comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah. And you get that from sales. 100%. Yeah. Because you're

always uncomfortable. I just remember being like, every day I'd go home. I'd be like, oh, sweaty armpits. I'd go off from being like nervous, just, you know, really like, yeah, it's, it teaches you a lot. And then I got to a point where I thought, I don't, I like this, but I'm missing, I like it, it's hard, but I'm also missing the science. Like, I did that and I did that for a reason and I enjoyed it and I'm missing that. I'm missing using my brain in that way. So like I want to find something now that maybe combines the two and that's how I ended up where I am now basically. And I kind of stumbled across it to be honest. Like no one's, I'd never really heard of it. I was looking at things that combined communication and combined being someone who wanted

to kind of be client facing and do that business side, but also with a level of science and a level of kind of in that field. So yeah, you managed to get the perfect crossroad. Yeah. Being creative and also user science. Yeah, exactly. And you do, you have to do a bit of sort of creative writing and things like that as well and kind of use those skills and like to an extent also. So yeah, I feel like I've got the balance right. So yeah, I feel good. Yeah. Just I want to still do my hobbies. I still want to do like my singing and that side of things also. Yeah. And yeah, the job is stressful sometimes, like any job, right? Like what job isn't? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. can do anything worthwhile or anything that you get that fulfillment from if it's too easy.

Yeah, 100%. We all want it to be easy. But then you don't. But if it's that easy, that's where it gets very boring. Exactly. And I'd rather be challenged and interested. Yeah, yeah. Than bored and yeah.

Definitely. Exactly. So let's say your job ended tomorrow. Oh, God. And you mentioned obviously, like, gaining them sales skills. What are the top skills that you think you've learned in? the job that you're in in the career that you've had so far, all of it, what are you like the top skills that you would advise anyone to get

that you think can really help you move into something else? For sure. I think communication is the biggest one, like learning those communication skills. I know there's tons of books out there and stuff, but I think the most important things are like doing that presentation, getting up in front of people and being able to just do that. And yes, if you need to prep, fine, but doing it without prep,

you know, in those circumstances. Yeah. Communication is one of the biggest things. I think that's the thing that, in fact, interview skills, I would say interview skills are huge. Like, I've moved job every couple of years up until this job I'm in now, which I'm actually very settled and happy in now. But it's probably the longest, actually.

I'm coming up to three and a half, four years. But every two years, I've just had that confidence to go, I'm going to interview for a new job and I'm going to get more money and I'm going to get a better position. Well, they say that is the only way to really skyrocket. It really is. It really is. It's to job hop every couple of years.

That's how I've done it. Staying in a career, staying in a company, you get like a bit of reward. Yeah. But jumping is where you really. I've never done it, but I've done it a little bit. Yeah. But not done it that regularly.

Yeah. So the last time I did it, God, it was, I was done well. I remember, I remember I asked for a 5K salary. repay rise and I said things are really tough. Which is like a hundred, it was like a hundred and fifty pound a month extra a month. It wasn't even that much. But I thought, you know, I want to be fair and whatever.

And I said, look, I'm doing the role of the role above. I appreciate I'm doing it right now. And you need to kind of assess that. But look, things are really tough at the moment. But also I feel like I've achieved X, Y, Z. And that's another thing I would say, like have those conversations. I feel like women especially don't do it. Which I really get to in a minute.

about like imposter syndrome and stuff, but like have those conversations be like, I'm worth this and I would like to ask for it. I looked up the market rate. Yeah. It was, you know, higher than what I was on. So I said, look, this is what I'd like. This is why. These are my reasons.

And they said, yeah, we'll consider it. I came back a month later. It took a month to decide. And they were like, do you know what? We just really can't afford it right now. We agree with everything you're saying, but we just can't, we can't do it. And I was like, what do you mean you can't do it? Because I've seen all the business coming through.

It's going to cost you significantly more than fired brand to replace me. Right. Exactly. And train someone else. Exactly. And there I am fighting for it. So then I just went and interviewed elsewhere. Always interview at multiple places at once.

Yeah. Always. Don't give yourself just one option. I did that. And I got a job for a 20 grand pay wise. And I thought, are you? Like that just goes to show you. I was fighting for my life for 5K.

And then I was like, oh wow. And now that's life-changing amount. So suddenly I was like, oh my God, now I'd have to worry about any of this. And now I've got. I think a lot of people don't change because they are scared of change. That's one of the biggest things I've learned as well actually is change. Like changes. Don't be afraid of change. I've changed so often.

I change things all the time. I've changed jobs. I change country. Twice now, I guess. And it's always been for the better. It's always been for the positive. And I'm not afraid to start something new and I'm not afraid to start from the beginning again at a new place because I know I'll be able to figure it out.

I think people like that confidence to, they want to, they so want to. Of course they do. And also at the same time, it's a weird thing, isn't it? Because they feel like they need to be loyal. Yeah. And an actual fact, would that company be loyal to you? No. If they had the choice, for example.

Exactly. So I'd give my loyalty to a company that didn't deserve it. Not the one I'm in now, but. No, but I think, you know, you've still got a kind of way up, like you say, yeah. You just, like you say, push yourself and really just try to give yourself that confidence to, no, You are worth it, you know, at the end of the day. And you will find someone who feels the same, basically.

100%. You know, and sees your vision and sees your potential. Exactly. You know, so. There's that story isn't there where a dad gives his son a watch. And he was like, take this watch and go get it valued. So he's gone to the pawn shop. I'll give you a couple of hundred quid.

Yeah. Took it to a watch dealer. Oh, give you a couple of thousand. Then took it to an expert. Yeah. I'll give you 50 grand for it. And it's like, it's the watch hasn't changed. The watch hasn't changed.

But the value has changed depending on who sees the value. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that is such a big lesson. And I think that was actually one of the, probably the only advice my mom gave me that I've never took because I'd normally take all her advice is when I got out of uni, she was like, job hop every six months. Until one, you find something that you actually love

because there's so many things that you just don't even know a career is out there. Yeah. But also because then you can, yeah, you can see your work. and you can grow. Well, you can see I changed industry. I just went, all right, whatever, I'm going to try this now, until I found something that I enjoyed, but also valued, like, values me. And it has, and I'm now in a company that, like, he's really big on work-life balance,

like huge on it, like more than anyone I've ever seen. In fact, he started the business because he has two young children himself and he wanted to be more present with them. So that instantly told me, this is a great match, like straight away. And one of the things I saw he was posting on LinkedIn was about, like, we offer term time working. You know, straight away, I was like, my kids weren't even in school at this point,

but I thought, oh, I want to explore this because this looks like a good long time. It's not something that usually people advertise. It's something that usually they would usually ask, like we spoke a lot on our last guest one. It's usually they're thinking, how much time are you going to be off because of that? Yeah.

Yeah, they see your time and use that. You need that time. And it's not because kids, ever since I've had kids, I don't know about you guys, but like ever since I've had kids, I feel like I can do anything. I'm like, I give birth to two children. Yeah.

They give you the confidence that, again, that you do. And the drive. Yeah. And like you say, we said in the last podcast, like, mums have this extra superpowers that, no offense, guys, you just don't have it because you just, I don't know. It's hard to explain, but they do give you that extra level of strength, confidence, drive, motivation.

100%. And in the right environment that's respected by the right bosses and companies, you'll get so much more out of someone by saying, oh, your kids aren't well, work from home today. 100%. Or, you know, you've got a school play, yet, no problem. Because you work so much harder for someone who respects you. Yeah, 100%. I'm happy to pull late nights for this boss because I also know that when I need the time back,

I can take it for what I need. And agree. Exactly. Not everybody works to the same routine. Nine to five, stuck in an office behind a desk with no flexibility and you have to book any time off to do a dentist appointment. It's not the way the world should work. work. No. That was built for a world where men went to work because women stayed at home.

There was one caregiver at home with the kids 24-7 and one was in the office and that's what that's built for. And it's just not how it is anymore. Not in that society. And everybody needs two incomes now to live and, you know, like there's just you have to adapt and change accordingly. Yeah. The only thing I think as going back to when you, you know, with uni and coming out and getting into, you know, into practical work, I suppose as well. Yeah. Because obviously, you know, you're doing so much academics you miss that side. Yeah. And I think what has changed a lot now is that the young

the young lot don't get that opportunity to go and even if it's a paper round, you know what I'm going to be old. Being a waitress. They gave the best skills, the people skills, the communication, the confidence and I just think there's not enough of that out there that they can't do it. They've made it harder now to. Yeah.

And I do think that they're like you said, those skills do matter to go on to, you know, whatever whatever you do in future, but those small little things that you probably thought, oh God, I've got to go and do this stuff. Actually, you're learning so much. Yeah, I don't know in it.

Yeah, I think rather than actually be able to put our kids out to get those skills, we just have to create those situations that I saw a woman and she, her kid was like, oh yeah, I want to do a clothes band. She was like, right, pitch me a business plan. Right, here's some money. Right, now I'm going to invite 20 of my friends and you better be ready to pitch them and present to them.

Nice. So it's like you just have to create that yourself, right? Yeah. Because you can't rely on that paper around. You can't learn it from a book. No. You can't learn those skills from a book. You can't.

No, you can't. You can read, like, all the skills on how to do a great presentation. But I don't you get up and start talking in. Like, I do it all the time at work. I train new people for a couple of weeks. And then I go, right, the bit that everybody loves, let's do some role play. And they're like, yeah, yeah, no, it makes sense. I get it, I get it, I get it.

Right, okay, pitch me. Oh, God, yeah. And then you go blind. So it's like, nobody likes to role play. It's the only way to really show. We say it's like. I say it all the time, especially in medical. You read and go into the practical side of it

and everything is so textbook. They never teach you when things go wrong. Yeah. So you'll do something in practical and then something will go not by textbook and everyone's like, what do I do now? Yeah. Because if someone who had worked as maybe a receptionist

or a nurse and seen it and got that experience, this is what you do in these situations. Yeah, exactly. It does. You think at the time it doesn't mean anything or it's not worth anything, but actually I do. I think it's a lot. But I just feel like it's getting less, them opportunities.

Yeah, definitely. I do think theatre's good for that. Like, obviously, being someone from a creative side, and obviously Kaysen does drama club and Amir will be going back to it. And I think that gives them a lot, that gave me a lot of my confidence. 100%. You just have to get on stage and you just got to do it. Have you heard of Jay Chetty?

Yes, I have. So he's a massive, like, podcaster and motivational speaker and he's everywhere. Yeah. Massive, massive following. He's English. He lives in America now. But he was a very shy and he come from like a single parent Indian household. So it's very much the same.

Do this job. Do that job. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. He's massively disappointed as parents. Yeah, completely. Tell you that now. How dare you make millions doing something you love?

He went into like a corporate career. Then he went and become a monk for like a couple of years. And he said that that really helped. And that's how he started to share things online. like motivational things and like perspective and what matters in life and all the things he'd learned from stepping completely away from his corporate career. Yeah. Sharing that got him momentum and he grew bigger.

But he said he was a very shy, chubby, awkward, nerdy kid. Like all the things that makes you like the kid that people pick on, he said was him. Yeah. And his mom made him go to improv class and drama stuff. Nice. To learn. He said I hated it. Yeah.

I think he said he went like every week. for two years. Oh my God. He said I hated it but now he's a podcast, that's speaker and he was like so much of my skills now. Yeah. Because I've learned the knowledge but I can only communicate as good as I can now because of going through that. So yeah, I think theatre is great. I grew up doing, like we did all the shows at school and stuff and we actually like with the drama teachers would help put it all together and productions and stuff. Yeah. I loved all that. We'd leave our classes. Do you go and do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry we can't do maths today. We can't do maths today. We've got a show for three months.

Love it, love it. But it's so true that maybe that is actually probably missing in our parenting now, I think, because my parents used to put me in situations that I'd be like, oh my God, I hate this. Like, this is absolutely awful. My dad just made me sing at random people's houses. Like, he'd just be like, right, I was eight years old. I think about it now.

Like, there's no way of Mia or Kaysa would sing for someone random. And they'd be like, right, you know, sing now. And I'd be like, so nervous. nervous, I'd be like sweating. Love it at the same time. Kind of. Once I was done it. Once I'd done it.

Yeah. But at the time I was like, oh my God. And then I'm or keep like, you know, they'd be like a next concert or something going on and they'd just be like, right, you're doing it. You're just doing it. And I'd be like, oh, I don't want to. They're like, yeah, but you're good at it.

So you're going to do it. I think you hit the nail on the head there though. Yeah. We've just said the best thing and what's made us successful is comfortable being uncomfortable. And we don't do that enough. And we don't make our kids uncomfortable. We don't make everything very easy.

It's way too easy. We don't want them to feel anything negative or anything bad. You know, and don't give them that feeling. And because we're, I know it's good because we're all about mental health and all these things. But at the same time, in a way, we're not making it worse because we're pushing them too much. Yeah, yeah. They can't deal with anything. You know, that push that you've got to give yourself to kind of get over those things.

100%. I'm a bit nervous that I'm not going to go this way. Well, actually, you know, we're like, oh, don't worry about it. You don't have to do it. Yeah, exactly. You take it away. and the only way kids gain confidence is by doing something that's hard and then them actually completing it and that feels so confident and their self worth and their self-value.

So like they have to keep doing those things. And I think, yeah, that is something that I thought about recently and I'm like getting to a point now. Like I'm not going to give him all the answers. I'm not going to make it easy for him and just like remove everything that's hard. No. Like I'll help you through it. Yeah. And I'll support you.

Mm-hmm. But you can also figure it out. and then gain the confidence. 100% yeah. In fact, I think I'm coming to that realisation right now. Yes, we speak, I'm thinking, I haven't, like, we do. We remove every obstacle, don't we? And we go.

Yeah. We all get, this. I do this with mine. I feel like I'm being so, you know, like, a bit, you know, like, I'm trying to use a nice word. That's the most thing, isn't I? I'm literally trying not to swear. You know, like being too tarty around them, basically.

You know, we're all just a bit like, oh, you know, careful of them and actually they need a little bit of rough and tumble to get themselves up sometimes to brush their actually I got through that and I can get through the next thing and I don't mean as in literally pushing them into somewhere that's like a caged fight or anything but you know but it is

it's those little things of going to that to that job that you might not like or you know it's not as nice but it's getting through those things and maybe getting that little wage packet that you get yeah 100% you know and again the opportunity there's loads of other examples you could give.

I just think they're becoming less and they are so important. Well, like we've said before, it's like we want to not do a better job than our parents, but we've got a lot more information, like I say about mental health and all those things. So yeah, we're naturally going to, you know, maybe fill in some of the gaps that our parents

didn't know about and do a better job. Yes. But we don't want to come so far away because we're pretty... Because actually we've turned out pretty well. Yeah. I agree. I agree. We need that in between. Exactly.

In between. Take some of the new stuff. but like keep the their childhood like that you know works as well definitely because I completely agree with you I definitely feel there's an element of that like I feel like actually I was parented really well like I was parented well and yes there wasn't my parents didn't know what mental health was my god are you kidding like I didn't even know what the word was for ages and yeah hydrationy then we talk about this is the day hydration oh my god everyone's got a water bottle I wasn't I didn't have a water bottle mom I haven't had a drink in three days I can't even remember my tan and making myself I don't think I ever did that did we just never hydrate Is that why we're like we are now

Like the millennial things We're in our wellness era But it's true Now we're like We can't go out the house So there's all having our own bottles I know My God imagine

All these things And sometimes I'm like You know we can just buy water at the store But we're so like Oh no We haven't got the water Yeah like there's like access Everywhere

But oh no I need to be prepared But my kids do it Like Leo goes out absolutely mental. He's five years old, right? He's like, I need water right now. And I've literally just picked him up from school, which is a five minute drive to the house, right? I'm like, well, get out your bag and he's like, it's empty. And all chaos ensues. I'm like, the house is two minutes away. Can you just give me,

I can't wait two minutes. I'm thirsty right now. I'm like, well, I don't know what to do because there's no water available in this current situation. It's true, but we've gone from this, like you say, this. And I feel like, whoa, people. Like, come on. Maybe here. Yeah. Let's just take some of water. Let's just take some of water. what we've learned. Literally. Over the top. I know. And I think about, now I think about some of the things that my kids get and I think, God, if I asked that of my parent, I'd have got a wallop. These are our children. We're thinking this, you know? So you're like to say, we need to bring some back of how we were bought her. Yeah, definitely. You know, of those

sides. Because otherwise we are bringing our children up to be those tarty people. Yeah. Snowflakes. Yeah. Snowflakes. Sorry, I'm trying to find a nice part. Sorry. I'm like, what do you think tardy like what's what's going on and like not that kind of tarty you mean like yeah it's just very deepy and deevery yeah just devery I see what you can't handle everything yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you can you can get your hands dirty sometimes and wash them yourself you know yes you know oh gosh yeah I know you're right definitely it's definitely women of that do you believe that women can have it all or do you think this is just a lie that we've been sold and you know we got the short end of the stick thinking that we can do everything because it's such a

complicated question isn't it? I think there is definitely the one that I think is circulating at the moment and it is we can have it all but at different times right there's always a week where you feel more on top of different seasons 100% different seasons but also just week on week. Like one week I feel like I've got everything together in the house everything else is falling apart oh this week I'm doing really well in exercise, but everything else is falling apart. And now it's work's turn to do well, but now actually I'm not present with my kids, you know, so. So you can't do it all in a 24 hours. No, and I think that is ridiculous. Like, I think you can have routines. Routines have really helped me. I don't like routine. I saw, again, in one of your podcasts recently about ADHD,

definitely think I have an element of that. I'm one of those adults who finally realized that there was definitely element of that. So I'm definitely the kind of person that is opposed to routine. I love being spontaneous, but it doesn't work for me. Yeah. And there needs to be some element of routine in my day where I go, I'm doing this at this time. This is what happens. I drop the kids at school. I go to the gym. It has to happen. Not a morning person. Tough shit. Can I say shit? Yeah. Yeah. Tough shit. Um, you know, so I have to just get it done. Because some people looking like, like, say Instagram, oh yeah, it's so fun and she loves working out and does it. I'm not doing it all the time. Every day is different. I'm dragging myself to the gym from

school because I know that I'll... I trick myself. Every morning, I trick myself. Every morning I wake up and I cannot. Can you imagine you're looking at your day and you guys will know this. I've got an out of bed. I've got to battle the kids, right? Waking them up is one thing. Getting them to eat breakfast that's healthy is another thing. Getting them to eat breakfast at all is another thing. You know, getting them dressed, getting myself ready, getting out the door, getting to school, I'm going to say on time. I'm never on time. Getting them to school before the gate. shut, let's say.

That in itself is a mission. And then imagine saying to yourself, I'm then going to go to the gym and do a really hard workout. Absolutely not. So in the morning, I just say, all I need to do is put my workout clothes on. I don't have to go to the gym. I do not have to go to the gym. Any morning I do not have to go to the gym. I go, just put your workout clothes on and drop the kids at school.

Nobody's going to know if you went to the gym or not. Okay? You do what you want. By the time I have dropped the kids off in school and I am driving past the gym on the way home, I think, again, trick myself again, just go in. and do five minutes. Walk for five minutes from the treadmill and scroll. Yeah. Because at least you're then moving your body instead of going home. And once you're in then you've started, you're in it. I think that's quite a refreshing thing to do. Like rather than have to work out three

times a week, have to do now and I have to do this and I have to do cardio. And it's like, it's almost like a diet when you restrict yourself rather than just like, no, have a healthy lunch and then have what you want for dinner. Literally that. It's that balance, but also like not set in really strict expectations. And I have. because otherwise you set yourself up for disappointment and then you feel shit about yourself and then you're just, you're licurable then. Exactly that.

And if you set yourself up, if at the start of the week I've gone, I'm going to work out three, four times this week. And don't get me wrong, my husband does that. And it works for him. So for different people, it works differently. Yeah. For him it works to go, this is my schedule.

I want to train on this day, this day, this day. For me, if I do that and then have a rest day, I'm then like, oh, I've messed up and now I've got to do it on Wednesday and that's too much pressure for me. So I just go, when I feel like it, I'm going to do it, do it. And actually I end up going pretty much every day. Because I am just like I've got the option.

Yeah. And then on the weekends, I just relax. Because I know I can just fully relax. Because you've done it. I've done it now for the week. And I do that with everything. I just have to trick myself. I just go, I'm going to do this. Even when I go on my runs, I just go, I'm going to walk. Just going to go for a walk. Yeah. It's no big deal. And then I'll get there and I'll go, I'll just run for a bit. We'll see how I get on. And then I can stop anytime I want. And then once I'm doing it, I'm like, I want to push myself. I'm here now. I've got this. You've taken the pressure off, so actually it becomes a bit more enjoyable and then, like, have to get to this and I have to do that. And then it becomes a chore.

Definitely. And I've scheduled things in that I really enjoy. So the way I got started in my fitness was Zumba at Asparta Gym. And it was only because I just really enjoyed that class. Like, he's not, I wouldn't call it Zumba. It's not Zumba in the UK where you're literally going step to the right, step to the left. It's like, I mean, I would say he's a professional dancer. I feel like that.

He's a proper dance. And he plays Rihanna. He plays like really good like pit bull. Like proper like millennial tracks. And I love it. I felt like I'm going clubbing. Yes. So that for me was like, oh, I just really enjoy it.

So I just remember naturally it wasn't, I wasn't forcing myself to go. Yeah. I was going, oh, I want to go. So yes, I would then have to work later if I logged off at the correct time and went to it. But then I'd just go, well, it's worth it. Yeah. because I enjoy it so much and I feel so good afterwards. So then it just became non-negotiable.

Starting with that twice a week really helped me develop my confidence in my own fitness. And I was like, oh, I'm doing it now. And now I've been doing it for a year. So actually that, what is it? It's not discipline, but it's having the routine, isn't it? I agree. It's discipline as well, I think. Yeah.

And you build that a little bit. But I think discipline sounds like such a negative work because it sounds like you're making yourself do something that you don't want to do. Exactly. And I think you definitely like that is a really, refreshing a good way to do it. Rather than go, I'm going to go to the gym and I hate the gym, but I know it's good for me. Well, a dance class is cardio,

so I'm going to do that one. Find things you enjoy. And we really enjoyed it, but we stopped because they were doing so many performances that the pressure was too much better. It wasn't fun anymore. No. But, yeah, and you've got into dance as well.

You're doing dance class. Yeah, yeah. A different type of dance class. Yes, I do my high heels dancing as well, yeah, which I really enjoy. And that, again, is like, Like that's a part of me. I feel, oh God, we can go into so many topics.

But yeah, like after motherhood especially, like reclaiming your sexuality and your femininity. Yeah. It's hard. Like, you just feel like a butler and a, well, for a lot of years you feel like a milk machine. And I don't know, like there's lots of, you know, lots of things, lots of changes in your body and everything. And I think just reclaiming a bit of that is really nice. And this is a way that I feel very, very much like a woman, I think. Yeah.

Like that's my thing. I'm not a wife, I'm not a mother. I'm just a woman doing my high-heels dancing. It makes you feel good about yourself. Definitely. There's so much to be said for that. And I think adults, like, we force our kids to do so many hobbies because hobbies are fantastic.

You meet people, you get new skills. You find different things that you're good at and interested in. And as we get older, we just stop doing them. Yeah. And, like, most adults you speak to don't have a hobby. No. Don't have one thing that they do for themselves. and they wonder why they're miserable.

Exactly. And they're feeling like a bit, oh, I'm motivated. Yeah. And it's like, like, I know when we went to the dance class and when I go to a Pilates class and things and when I go to like business seminars and workshops, I love all that stuff. So it's just about making that time to take some of that for yourself.

And it reawakens who you were before you became a mum. Yeah. Doesn't it? Yeah. We always say this. I'm never, I'm never Charlotte. I'm so-and-so's mom. Yeah. I'm talking about, I love being.

I never actually Charlotte. Charlotte. And I actually put this on our vision board, I think, because the same thing was, be more Charlotte. Yes. Get in the picture. You are there. Yeah. You know, so all the pictures, it's everyone's together.

Honestly. If you look in my house, I literally was thinking about this the other day and all the pictures on the wall are of my husband and children. And I was like, where am I? Do I live here? I'm the one taking the picture every time. It's so true. And my husband's quite good actually at taking pictures. Anyway, it's not like he wouldn't.

But yeah, it was just me being more conscious of, I want to be in the pictures with them. So when they are looking back at the memories, I am there. Yeah. They know what was there. Yeah. Just to have that thing, you know. And going back to the hobbies, we, you do.

They kind of diminish as we get older. Yeah. You know, we still have these interests and things that we do want to do. Yeah. And to keep that identity ourselves. You know, we do have things we like to do and we are good at too, you know. So it's just pushing yourself. Again, it comes from a lot of the confidence and everything else as well.

You don't have time or I don't really feel like it. And actually, once you get there and do it and you've come out, it's brilliant. Like you say, you can actually get excited in the end of that. Exactly. Oh, actually, it's coming up to this day and time that I've got this club or class or whatever it is that you're doing. Or, yeah, I don't know, sometimes without that,

just make a time to go and meet your friend for an hour and have a coffee. You know, sometimes we just don't take that time out for ourselves to do anything that we like to do. It doesn't have to be gym or dancing or singing or anything. It could literally just go and have a walk. Yeah. You know, because we don't. We fill our calendars up with things for everybody else. Even work, which is not our thing, is it?

Yeah. Without our interests in. But that's what it feels like. It feels like your me time is work. And you're like, hang on a minute. And you're right. Like I come into myself for ages that I didn't have time. You know, for ages I was like, I don't have time.

Like, who has time when you've got young children and you've got like, well, young children or older children doesn't matter. Like it's still, you know. In fact, if anything, I think when they get older, you've got even more taxiing around and garden. So, you know, so you've got that. You've got work. You've got the house and you think, how do you fit this in? How did you go from, I don't. have time to, I've made the time and now this is part of my life.

Yeah, this is, this is exactly, it was that, it's that daily, isn't it? It's, it's, it's, and I used to hate this saying, because I'm very much an all or nothing kind of person, right? I'm either in it or I'm not. So it took me ages to realize that I could no longer do that. You can't just go all in, right? And actually, so my brother at the moment is going through his own fitness journey. He's a big inspiration for me, like we're really close, me and him.

And, um, he doesn't have kids. and is single and is 30 coming up to 32. And, you know, for him, it was really easy to go, right, I'm going through a fitness journey. I'm going to track all my macros. I'm going to track everything I eat. He literally spends the whole day in the kitchen weighing all this food out. Right. I'm like, I do not have time for this, right?

Like, come on. And he is in the gym every day. He's also running three times a week. He was then doing his boxing. You know, he's got time to do. So he went and in a year he has made a significant difference. I can't remember how many kilos he's lost, but he's always. looks insanely different. Right? And I think we all do that. And we go, that's what we need to do.

If we want to get fit, that's what we need to do. And we're looking at it as in three months I want to look like this or in six months I want to look like this. Or in a week, I want to look like this. I've got a wedding in three weeks and I need to have no, you know, so then you go all or nothing. It becomes impossible. And we can't do that anymore. And I think that's what I had to accept is that you probably could do that before, but we can no longer do that. And all you had to, all you had to, all, all I had to do was change the thinking of, I want to look a certain way or I want to be fitter or whatever to actually, I want to try and fit this in this many times a week. Or I just want to fit in 15 minutes here. I want to go to the gym 30 minutes three times a week.

And even that seems like a lot. But being realistic. In your, in your chapter of your life and the thing that you've got. Exactly. I think I got to point where I was like, I don't need to undergo some big transformation. I don't need that. But what I do need is something that I could keep up consistently with my life in my season of life, right? And I know that sounds really cliche again, but it got to that realization of going, this is not an all or nothing. This is small changes, small swaps, little things that you can do. And actually, I've realized, because my brother has taught me as well, like how to track food as well in a way that isn't so intensive. So just little things, he said, just when you pick up something in the grocery store, look at the fat and the protein. That's it.

Don't even look at the rest. But if you look at the fat and the protein, you want the protein to be much more than the fat, right? You want your fat low, your protein high, and then you can pick that up. And that's instantly made me go, oh, actually, God, this cheddar cheese is horrendous. But actually, this cheese that's, you know, low fat or syn lactose or whatever is actually not so bad. So that's, again, like, small, without it being like, God, you've got a meal plan, five different things that you've never eaten before. Just little things to kind of build. And I think that's how it's happened. So in the last two years, I've naturally gotten fitter without being like, change my life. It's completely.

You can achieve all these things. It doesn't have to be the same way, the same journey, the same everything. You know, you can still achieve it. You've just got to make your own planning your own way, like you say, depending on where you are. It's little things, it's little so it. It took me a while to realise, okay, so work. I work in the UK.

So as in, I work from home here, but for a UK company. So they start an hour later. But yes, every morning I'd go, yeah, but I've got so much work to do. And I'm working really late every evening. So I want to start early. So I want to start. As soon as I've dropped other kids at nine, I want to be at home. And I want to log on at half eight UK time because I'm going to be, then I can try and get ahead of it.

I never got ahead of it. Yeah. There's always more work. Yes. Work never finishes. Work never ended. Yeah. I used to work until I've finished everything for the day.

And I was like, whatever doesn't get done gets moved to tomorrow because there's always going to be there. Exactly. Yes. Exactly that. And this is what I learned, well, very slowly because it took me years to realize it. But actually, me logging on. half an hour early is not helping me. And actually it's not helping me because I'm still finishing at the same time. But then I've lost that time. I'm giving an extra half an hour.

I'm giving them exactly. And then I thought, no, I'm going to actually use that time for myself. It took me ages to go, because it is, you are like, you just believe that I don't have time to work out in the morning because I'm already working till six. So then I'm going to work till seven if I lose an hour in the morning. Guess what? No, I didn't. I would then have that hour in the morning to myself to go the gym and I still worked till six and actually nothing changed so I thought and until you realise that and do it because otherwise I think initially I know I would do you feel like a guilt yeah yeah I should be I should be why should you be you should always be giving yourself to someone else right I felt guilty for I felt guilty for twice a week going to Zumba and missing kids bedtime

and then I thought but I do it on the other nights yeah I'm a better person I'm a better person exactly things for me and for them and for my husband and you're teaching your kids you're that they get to do that when they're older. And I think that's really important because I want my kids to know that you still need to live your life when you've got kids. Because, and my kids are fine with that. They're not like, they're not like, oh yeah, mommy's going to dance now. Bye, have fun. Do you remember any time in your childhood where your mum went out with her friends one evening?

No, ever. Well, I do. This is a thing I actually do. Oh, okay. My mom, yeah. Sorry, mom. But my mom did and I love that. Do you know, and I say this to all that you're names.

to go like every year they had the ascot trip so every year they would all obviously my mum or someone else was more the organiser I've got obviously getting the coach and organising the ladies doing this is what we're doing then they did another trip like a weekend trip somewhere to like like centre parks back in the day so you know what I mean and then they and then they did then they did a camping trip with all the whole family which was the husbands and the children every summer that's at least three trips they did as friends as women yeah yeah They didn't work together. They didn't, you know what I mean?

That's brilliant. They don't know in each other. But, you know, that's how I grew up seeing. And my mum did go to, like, keep fit class. That's great. I was saying, I remember taking me one time, do you know what I mean? All in their leg warmers on the boxes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, they still. I remember being in the corner of my mum doing like a step class and combat and all this with a colouring book just sat in the corner. Or in the nursery, like, fresh child care of the gin. So for me, I do remember my mom doing quite a lot and I probably don't do as much as I should as much as I've seen it, you know, because I do believe that.

You know, when especially when my daughter will get so upset if I'm going away from my hand or something like this, you know. One girl's trip I have. Yeah. I think it is so important that they do see that you're doing a drama class. I think there's a difference between knowing that it's important. and actually doing it.

Because like you say, I agree with it all, but am I actually embodying what I believe? Not always. Yeah, right. I think you're good. I think for me,

I definitely have the time, for sure. Like, I know, especially like with, you know, how mine and lien's relationship is how we like manage the kids and everything.

I 100% have the time. Yeah. I'm just feel guilty for taking the time away. Yeah. And we're all just sat in the living room. The kids are playing, they're fine.

Yeah. They're fine. Yeah. It would not matter if I disappeared for an hour. But it's also hard enough as it is, right? Like, it's hard enough to motivate yourself to do fitness without all of that stuff. Nobody wants to do it. They don't.

Like, that's the thing. That's the other problem. At the beginning, it's not me time. It's another job. Isn't it? Like, let's be honest. So do you think it's harder to start or harder to stay consistent? It's harder to start.

I think you're right there, to be honest. And it's having that routine. So it's having it, for me, it's every single weekday. Yeah. I have that time carved out to try and go to the gym. if I miss one it's fine yeah okay because you're gonna have an off day. That was good about the dance is that it was two days a week at this time. Yeah.

That is the class. It's not like the gym's open all day. I've got to try and find my slot. Yeah. Like sometimes it's better to remove the decision and I think we're not very good at making decisions anyway. Too good. But I think like even we've got a board in our actually bought it for myself but Kaysen actually quite liked it. So now we write out what we're having for dinner every day.

Nice. And is there an activity that we want to do, like here, there and everywhere? So, like, on the boards, Toy Story 5 is out in the cinema. So he wants to go watch that. But even just not having to make the decision every day of what we have for dinner, which we were always last minute. Isn't that just the worst thing in life? The whole thing about being an adult is deciding what to eat every day of your life.

And I hate it. And actually... But having that bored and I've made the decision, we spend 10 minutes. Yeah. And then the decision's made for the rest of the week. Yeah, I love that. Remove the decision making because we are fat. fatigued from making a thousand decisions a day.

Yeah. As parents, as, you know, working. So sometimes it is, take 10 minutes out of your week. Do it on a Sunday. Plan it. Yeah. And then I'm not make, it's not my mood. What do I fancy? No, that's what you have to do. Literally that. I'm not relying on my mood to make me go gym. And that's the gym. The gym is never my mood. Because when I wake up every morning, I don't want to go. Do you want to? Absolutely not. Are you kidding. When I've got all of that facing me. Yeah. But by the time I've done everything and I've already moved my body because I've got to take. And that's the other thing. Kids have made me get into a routine, right? Because before I had kids, you don't have to get up and get out of the house. Now you do. You've got to get up to school.

You're like, oh my God. So you're already moving. So you're like, right, I'm now in my gym stuff, driving past the gym, feel like a bit of an idiot if I don't go in. But you do. You just go, well, I'm just going to go in now and at least do five minutes because I'm here. And it is that. It's taking the decision out for sure. And, you know, with dinner, I think about this now, like, my mom just made curry every day. Like stereotypical, but she did. There wasn't a choice. We're a curry every day. Three of my children what they want and they'll obviously give me three different things.

But why have I given them the choice? Why are we doing this? My mum would literally be like, right, here's what you're eating. I hated onions growing up, right? I still don't really like them. I'll eat them now in curries and stuff. But like I won't eat them raw. I can't, if they're big ones, I pick them out.

And I remember saying to my mom really don't like onions. And she then made some... The base of a curry on curry. She then made them... bigger. Like she just, you know, she was like, right, now you've got even more. Yeah, exactly. But she was like, I don't care. Like, I'm not changing the way I cook. I was going sit on the table until you finished. Like, no, no, yeah. 100%, yeah. It is what it is. You eat what you're given. Yes. And that's what we're having.

And here we are now going, oh, let's hide the vegetables and now to blend this up and whatever. And why are we doing this? Yeah, you're right. I remember sitting at my grandfess, actually, like, literally gagging on vegetables that I really didn't want it. But I know you've got to eat it all up. So you can't leave the table. I don't read it. You're eating it. I know. And now we're afraid of it.

Now we're like, oh my God, why are you forcing them to eat stuff? It's like we don't want our kids to be upset. But we're all right. We're all right. And I eat everything now. I'm not giving cabbage people. Exactly. And I will eat onions now.

So clearly like, and I have a really healthy palate now and I eat pretty much everything. Because I was forced to eat. I was a really fuss eater. I was very similar to Amir and Kaysen as a child. Like I was so like. no, I'm not, you know, I don't want to eat anything. I used to hate eating, but... Yeah, so tell us a bit more how you come about ending up in Spain

because we were obviously dragged here by our parents and we didn't have a choice. Ah, did you both grow up? You decided to come to Spain and an adult with kids. That is a much scarier decision. Yeah. I think, again, not being young, single, not young, you know what I mean? Like being individual, not having the responsibilities. Yeah, yeah.

You know, moving as an adult would be fun. Yeah. But moving, yeah, in that family dynamic must have been quite a big decision. Yeah, I think Liam and I had always talked about it. Like, basically, as you do, like we'd come on holiday to places in Spain. And not even at a can't it. I'm not even here where we are now, just random place and be like, I'd love to live somewhere like this one day. You know, like we'd love to just live somewhere like this.

I think everyone says that. They always say that. But very few people would actually make it happen. Exactly. And that's the difference, isn't it? But it's a difference of just going. And I think Liam and I are very much like, we should have to try it.

And worst case scenario. Yeah, no, no. You only live once. Literally. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to wait till I retire to have a life. That's what most people do, right? Yeah.

They wait till they retire. I hate that. That mentality. I can't live like that though. I live for the moment. Like, which isn't always great either. Like, you've got a plan. No, but.

I'm not very good at saving, for example. I'm not very good at saving, so, you know. But that's what you say. I'd rather have a life of an experience. then a bank account. Yeah, a bank account for what? And you say this. And I think, so for ages, we were like, you know, we want to do it, want to do it. And, you know, well before Brexit, we were saying that we'd want to do it. And we thought about Spain as an option because it's close by, it's close enough that we can fly back to,

you know, to see parents and family. And we thought, yeah, definitely for the outdoors lifestyle, right? And we were like, we want the heat. We want the sun. Like, we want it to be. And we're just not the kind of people, even though we've lived in England are pretty much a whole. lives. We're not the kind of people that when it rains, we're going to put on a rain coat and go out. Yeah. I just, I'm not that person. I am like, I'm just going to stay in and watching. You've got the odd outdoorsy people that, you know, come wind and rain, but I think most people are just hermit. We're a bit more, yeah, let's just get your coat on and get out. But even so, you know, I'm not. I'm not coming out in bed and sleeping. You'd rather not.

But we, I think we've learned that by being here. You know, when you have like a windy day, a little bit cold a day, a few drops of rain day. We're all a bit like, too hot. For the sake of a day, I'll just wait. I'll just wait for the next day. Exactly. We can. We can. Exactly.

But you couldn't do that in England. I can understand that. You'd be in for a month. Exactly. And then we had a few years of, you know, we had the kids. They were quite young. So we stayed. We stayed as long as we did in England because of my mum.

So my mum lived in London. And that's the other thing. I was living in London. London's got a shelf life, right? I think it's just got a shelf life. like how expensive it is and how busy it is. And, you know, I was commuting into London, like one hour, three quarters a day,

even though I lived in London. Like, ridiculous. Like, how is it taking me one hour, 45 minutes to get to work when I'm literally paying prices to live in London? Yeah. What's going on here? You're like a shelf life. There's only so long you can do that kind of lifestyle, I think,

and then it has its day. Especially after you have kids. And then you're like, hang on. And then I remember thinking, God, we've got two salaries. You know, we've got two children. And now we can't really, like, I find it really difficult.

Like I was like, all my money is just coming in and out every month, you know, so that was happening. And you shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. That's madness. And then I was thinking, how does anyone who isn't in a corporate career who's on minimum wage, not even low wage? I thought I was doing all right. Yeah. Exactly.

How are they affording to live here? Like, this is ridiculous. Like, it just didn't feel fair. So then, right, so my mum was around the corner and that was one of the reasons keeping us where we were. the day after I had Amia, my mum had her first heart attack. And it just really affected, like, her health. My dad and my brother live up in Newcastle. So, and they'd, like, they'd live there for a while.

So it was kind of down to us to sort of just be near. But also, like, I have a really close relationship with my mum. You want to be near. Exactly. We were very much, like, you know. And, you know, she wanted to be around the kids. And so all of that. So I was like, right, we're going to stay.

Liam was very much like obviously. Like he's brilliant. Like he's always been. And so we stayed and we stayed and we helped. And then things just got worse over the next five years. You know, her health deteriorated. There were different elements going on. And then 2003, April, she passed away after being in intensive care.

And I think that was what we needed like in a, like not in a, you know, but that was a push we needed. Yeah. which was, yeah, you know, life is too short. And it wasn't a decision made in that. We always wanted to live in Spain. We'd always talked about it before. But it just came to a point and it was about six months after.

Yeah, it was because it was April that she passed away. And then in October that year we said, let's visit Spain. Let's go to Alicante. We picked the South Coast because we were like, it's the cheapest. To be honest, I was like, it's the cheapest area to go to. For me, like, Spanish culture is also very similar. to Asian culture in a lot of ways, like everything being about the family, everything being about, you know, like the kids and sort of kid-centric and everywhere we went, there was like a play

park with a, you know, cafe. It's just built for us living our lives with the children, not like, here's your life with kids, and then they go to bed, and then you go out separately and no kids allowed to this and whatever. So it just felt very natural for us to be in that kind of environment. So anyways, we picked sort of this area. I'd never been to Alacante before. flew to Alicante in October 2023 spent a week here as a joke went and looked at a few houses

and we're like let's just see like who knows and then we'll set ourselves like a timeline of like a year or something and we'll see saw some things

and thought actually this is within our price range maybe we should actually come out here and rent first and I don't know and there's this whole digital nomad visa I'm working from home anyway so are you I don't know

what should we maybe we should we went back and then we said okay what's the first step i guess the first step will be renting out our house in london so i ring up the estate agents and say well what do you think like if we could rent out our house in london in about six months and he was like well call me back in six months and i was like well if you want me to rent your house out next week i can do that and i was like wow okay i was like not next week but okay so apparently that needed to happen straight away then we're on idealista to look at sort of properties in Spain to rent out again do you want to rent out now yeah no i want

I went out in six months. Well, come back in six months. So I thought, so I guess we just do this now. There's not as much planning. You just need to do it. Well, this is it. It's like, what else is there to plan? Just say, okay. And then we moved out her in December. Two months later. Two months later. We just were like, I think it was a 28th of December, Liam left in the car with five cats. And that was the other thing. We had five cats. I know. Five cats in the car and Liam and my brother driving across, you know, from London to Spain. And I left the next morning with an empty house. You know, everything was emptied after living there for 10 years.

And I, yeah, I put the kids on a flight with nine suitcases. That was all our stuff. We didn't even take anything else. We just nine suitors, which apparently was too much. But I said nine suitcases for a life built over 10 years. For four people. I think it's really good. Like toys, sentiments.

How old were the children? Ooh, what was that? It was two, three years? No, it was two years ago. Five and three? Five and three, but about to turn, that year would have turned six and then four. Yeah, five and three.

So although it's a change, they're still quite young in terms of actually for us. That was like our life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for you were very different. And actually, we was all right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, interesting.

Yeah. much more resilient. I think it's a bit more of an emotional thing. The hardest things I'm used, I think, as parents. Definitely. You know. But for them, it was fine. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly that. And that's the question I always ask myself. That's the only question that I still always ask myself. Is it the right thing for the kids? Because I grew up. I guess it's different for you guys because you grew up here. Yeah, we were a bit older. And I've got younger siblings.

And like, I grew up here from 11 to 16. Then I went back for a little bit and come back again. And my sister, when we all went back, my sister was probably that age, yeah, until 16, in England. And I'm so glad I was here rather than there. Really? Oh, I love that. Well, I always say this.

I say, I, my parents, I thought, my parents were ruining my life. Yeah. Yeah, of course. I, again, I was the youngest. I was leaving my brother in England. How old were you? I was just turned 12. Okay, wow, that is a 12.

Just settled into the first year of secondary. Oh, God. Friends are life. Yeah. you're taking your way of your microbes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is who I am. This is where I'm going.

And literally, when you've done your first year, a second year, it'd be different almost. I had my life. Yeah. Like the stables in my life, with the horses, you know, I've reset Sunday. You know, like, you got your routines and hobbies. You know, I had, every day I had life planned out sort of thing, you know?

That's huge. And when we come, like, there was no Iceland. There was no English products. Yeah. It was like, my dinners are changed. Like, everything's changed. God. But, growing up.

And that's all it is. It's just rowing up. and realise it. Again, for what you want in your life, for me, I just realise that they did do this for a better way of life. And actually it is a better way of life for us. And you're talking about, we never know if we're making the right decisions. This is something that I've learned for me to tell myself anyway, it is the right decision because it's my decision in that moment for me or for us, for whoever the decision was for, in our family, you know what I mean? in that moment when we made that decision

we were making that decision to be the right decision in that moment it has to be in the right decision it has to be in fact with them in mind you know what I mean things change of course it was yeah and then decisions might become different if you know but in that moment you would always make that decision best for you

or for whoever it's for you know so as well as we question all the time are we you know I think we have to remind ourselves you know we're good people and what we're trying to do is is the best decision. You know? You just try and go with it.

Well, someone said that to me. You're questioning it. You care. Before I had kids, I remember saying to someone like, you know, like how, you know, you've got a really good relationship with your teenagers. That how, how did you be a good parent? Yeah. It's like the fact you're even asking that question means you will be.

Exactly. So. It's true. Literally that when you're questioning your own parenting and you're questioning. and you're questioning those exactly that. No, you're right. I do feel like it's a right decision. You know, sometimes I think,

I think as well for me there's a bit of an added level of my parents immigrated from Sri Lanka to England because it is the best place in the world, right? That is in my parents' head. Yeah. This is a land of opportunity. Yeah. We've come here to build a better life for you.

Yeah. Right. So then when I told my dad that we were moving to Spain, he was like, what? Yeah. He was like, what? Like, hang on, we've moved from Sri Lanka to here because this is where you're going to get the best education, in his mind. This is where you're going to get the best of this and the best of that.

And actually like, you know, it's just different. It changes, right? And in that moment it was. It was. It was a good decision and the best change for you. 100%. And it did give you opportunity. It did.

And it gives you the opportunity to live in Spain. But now the way things are or the way you see it and what you want out of life. Yes. This is the best for our family. Exactly. this moment and this is the, you know, then. Yeah. So that happened to me and Lynn. So we grew up here. Yeah. Both of us like 10, 11 to like 16 and then we moved back to England.

Okay. And it was all only because, you know, we'd fell in love and Liam was going to possibly go and play football in England. And I can be apart from him. So I was moving and going back to college. So we made that decision. And then my mum was like, we were a bit sick of Spain. We're going to go back as well. And yeah, it's when we decided, so we've done five years. back in England. So I'd gone to college, I'd done my degree. And then me and Liam were like, right, well, our rent was coming to an end. Our jobs are coming to an end. We might as well try and make it work back in Spain. Yeah. And this was that only a couple of years after the recession. Years ago when our parents came, we came with, there was probably 30, 40 friends. And

gradually over the years, they whittled away because people just couldn't maintain a life here. Yeah. Like an income and everything. It's much better now. The world's much more international. Yeah, yeah. There wasn't much for our parents to do. So this is the biggest thing. When I said to my mom, like, oh, I've just graduated and me and him are moving back to Spain. They had a conference call with Liam's mum and dad on Skype. It was we were like five-year-old sat there, like not even talking with our parents talking about our lives. And we're like 21 at that point. And just sat there like, okay.

And they're like, oh, you're ruining your life. You've just gone and got a degree. You can go move to London and have this corporate degree. You moved us to Spain. Yeah, exactly. But because they'd struggled, like my mom and dad struggled living here. putting us in private school and all of that. It was not easy.

Because they didn't have an income. They had to figure it out. It was really, really tough for them. So she was like, you're throwing away. Like, you're setting yourself up. And now you're going back to a place where there wasn't a huge amount of opportunity here. Spain has got better more recently. And with the whole international, you know, job marketing things.

But yeah, I remember that my mom and dad and his mom, dad. No, what are you doing? What are you doing? Yeah. It's huge. You're making that moment for yourselves in that moment. And that's all you can do. Yeah, 100%.

And I think regardless of where you are, if you're still the same person, you're still raising your kids in the same way. Yeah. They're going to get it. Like, they're going to have it. And like you said, the world's more international now. It's easy enough for them to, you know, go back to England and back and whatever. And I look at friends in other countries and I'm like, our kids have a pretty good life. Yes.

100%. Yeah. Yeah, they do. And I think that's the most important thing. And that's the other thing, right? Like I was raised very much. And we have a pretty decent life. We do.

We do. Yeah. Which is huge. Like, it's huge. But yeah, my, you know, my parents came from. again, like where they've come from nothing to then having to build up, money was so important, right? Like money was important because he needed a certain amount

to get to a point where you could just afford to live. It was all about safety and security. Yeah, exactly. My mum was the same. Like, yeah, growing up was tough and money wasn't guaranteed. So all she wanted for us was get educated, get a job, have safety and don't have the stress that I had. Literally.

And then we're coming from a different perspective where we've been fortunate enough now where we're like, oh, we are comfortable. we can afford this, we're okay. So we don't have to drill that into our children where it's about money. It's more about actually something that makes you happy as well as, you know. And it is important. You do need, because you do. You do, of course you do.

Well, it's easy for us to say. Yeah, exactly is what I mean. You do. But at the same time, I think you just need to, I think you just think about what you think makes you rich in life. Yes. That's where I always, I know where I'm at now, you know. What success is, changes, I think, as you get up done. Yeah, well, you see, well, you do these things.

things that people make videos of just to make you think about it, doesn't it? Like, that, that is being, I can go to pick my door up today because I can. Yes. I can go to the school show. I can go to, do know what I mean? Yes. You do need money is very important. It's in a funny way does make the world go around, you know?

But for me, it hasn't made that huge difference of earning this much to this match in in terms of what's really important. Yeah. Yeah. I think you've, like I say, you've, you've been good at that. and you've maintained that and like I say you still have a very nice life but you're not chasing money

and you've capped it to I could work more hours I could earn double I'm not doing that I'm working enough that I can have a great life and I can still be there Yeah at this moment Yeah at this moment That's actually where I'm at the moment

And when they're hanging out with their friends and they don't want to be with me as much anymore then I'll learn some more money Yeah literally. It's that like really horrible It's not a horrible story It's a bit of heartbreaking story where there's a kid and the dad's putting him to bed

and he's like, Dad, how much do you earn? And he was like, that's a bit rude. Like, what are you asking me that for? But how much do you earn in an hour? And he was like, I don't know, 50 quid. He was like, okay, can I have 50 quid? He's like, what do you want money for? And he was like, if I pay you, can you give me an hour?

Oh, my God. Oh, God. I know what was coming? Yeah, it's so true. It is finding that balance. And I think being here, we do get that. And I think being in England, you get sucked so much more into that rat race and into that keeping up with the Jones Road and wanting the next thing

and financing the next thing. And as soon as you earn a little bit more, you get, you know, you can't ladder. You get a bigger house, bigger. But that's what it was like. And this is what we thought it was like. And I remember that's what I thought I wanted. Yes, because you do because that's all there is. So I thought, oh, the next step for us, if we didn't come to Spain,

was to get, you know, a forebed in the suburbs. Yeah. Right? And get a nicer house with more. space and whatever, which then ties you into a bigger mortgage, which means you're then stuck at that job and you need to exactly work more. You're never actually financially better because every time you jump up, you spend more. You spend more. 100%. So you've still got the set. I'm still in debt every month. I'm like, how has this happened? I'm like, what's going on? And less time.

What is going? Next time. Right. Exactly. And time is way more valuable. And more stress. But then I realized moving to Spain, I was like, and again, obviously we're lucky. I'm fortunate because we're, you know, we've got the job in London still, you know, but being out here. Yeah. But I was like, oh, we could actually buy this house, you know, which is way cheaper than the house in London. We don't need to have a mortgage. That's the way out, isn't it?

The way out is to not have a, you know, I know that's the plus. But it's just realising. Or less. There's other ways. There's other roots in life. There is other roots, yeah. And you will find happiness. Exactly.

Actually, probably more happiness if you just step away a bit and just have a little bit of think what is life is what is yeah what does it look like what does make us rich and don't get me wrong I'm still you know there are nights one of the things I really want to change is um having to log back on after the kids have been gone to bed because I'm rushing the bedtime routine yeah and I'm literally there wanting this to finish I've got a bit more work to do and I want to do it exactly and I want to go to bed on time so I'm just thinking okay we'll just quickly do this bedtime story okay yeah well quickly, yeah, all right, great, yeah, just go to bed now. And that's the time that they want to tell you everything.

Yeah, yeah. And they want to ask all the random questions. Yeah. Like the other day, Leo, it's like, near, it's 9 o'clock and I'm thinking, right, I need to get down now. He's just about to go to sleep. And then he's like, what kind of are a gorilla's pants? And I'm like, right? Also, that's also okay too.

Because kids will be kids too, you know, and you're thinking, right? It's bedtime. It's bedtime. And you are like, just go to bed now. Like, they're multicolored. Take it out. I don't care. You were right though, because even Cason last night was getting into like some deep stuff.

Yes. And was getting upset. Yeah. And that was a time where he like stopped for the day and then his worries were coming out. Yeah. It goes one way or the other. Exactly. But I would like to just even if it's, okay, it's fine for them to go to bed.

But what I want to be fully present in that moment and not thinking about work in that time. So what I would love to be able to do is just go, right, I'm done for the day. I've done everything. And I'm not logging back on. And actually those days I can actually enjoy and be present with them. otherwise you're constantly like pulled in two places. You can't flip-flop too much. Like, actually shifting your brain from one thing to the other is actually physically more exhausted.

They've already said that. Like you need to multitasking is a myth actually. It's a myth, yeah. You juggle more things, but you don't do anything really well. No, having a thousand tabs open. Doing, you know, bit by bit. One thing at a time. I'm constantly doing that.

I don't know about you guys. But where I'm like, when I work from home as well, it's just you feel like, I don't know, I'm there and I'm doing a task for work. And then I think, oh, Leo's birthday is next month. I need to actually call the lady and do that. Oh, I need to order this. Oh, God, I need to put the laundry out. And then you're just like, oh, God. And you just like, stop.

I need to just focus on work because now you're going to be working late because I've put the laundry out. Or not, I haven't even put the laundry out. I've just thought about it in a lot of times. I've written it down a few times. I've actually done it. You're right. Right. Let's move on to how we always end our episode.

It is the unfiltered minute. So these are just rapid fire, whatever comes to mind, quick answers. So what is your worst habit? Not going to bed when I'm supposed to. Staying up late. But I'm going to go to bed early to know. I scroll. Okay.

Some rubbish. I'll scroll. I just don't do. I can scroll. But at night time, I don't know. It's weird for me. I think I have this quite thing of if it's dark and there's a phone. I'm like, it's really not good shot.

No, it's not good. You're right. You're right. It's awful. And then I'm staying to wait longer because of it. That's why it's about having. I do you what it is. This is my time now.

I'm not even doing anything productive with it. No, but it's true because Liam says to me as well when I'm like, oh, I just can't think I can't do anything. And then he's like, yeah, but you're on your phone. I'm like, yeah, but I'm mind-numbingly on my phone that I feel like. Sorry, that's. Oh, God, is it school pickup? No, it's half-part. It's okay.

Sorry, well. Yeah, like, I'm actually like zoning out. Yeah. I feel like I'm having some meantime, but I'm literally like brain is. You're not having me time. And it's actually probably not helping. No, it's not. I should go to bed. And every single day I'm like, I need to sleep. I need to sleep. I'm not sleeping enough. I do that. I'm so tired this morning. I'm definitely going to go to bed early tonight. And then you don't. How the fuck is it at half a little? I know. And how has that happened? It's going to get worse. We're just talking about it today about like getting more routine. Sleep is a biggest thing. We've got to get more sleep. And as women, we got to get more sleep. Yeah. Liam needs less sleep than me for sure. Yeah. Definitely need more sleep. And yet we're the ones that are always in bed with the child. How does that work? Yeah. Not fun.

What is your best habit? Oh, that's difficult. I don't know. I can't think of any. Finding the time for fitness, I think, is a pretty good one from today. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's good that you do that. That way you trick yourself, if anything.

Yeah. You know, making yourself have good habits, I suppose. Yeah, I am very big on that. Like, I watch a lot of things and I very much want to. I think that's the habit, probably. I want to do the good things. I want to drink more water. I want to get more sleep.

Stay hydrated. I want to eat that too. No, but that's good. What annoys me is all the people that moan about their life that do zero about it. I don't have patience for people like that. And I'm not perfect. There's loads of things that I want to do and I'm not doing this. But at least sometimes I try.

Yes. Definitely. What's your superpower? God, I know this is going to just like trying to do it all. I know you said about multitasking. Yeah. But definitely that. I think the juggle, that is a superpower, isn't it?

Like, doing it all. Yeah, you're going to say, you might have to do it all at once. No. I am. I am, yeah. I've got, I've got the job. Yeah. Got the fitness in there.

You know, I'm trying to eat better. Like, trying to do all of that. Got my hobbies. You know, I'm trying to keep up with all the things. You are. And I'm still sane, people. I'm still sane. Just about.

Yeah. Yeah, well, debatable. What do you wish people talked more on? Honestly about? Probably about like married life, like how that changes. Yeah. When they're older. I think a lot of people have long term relationships.

Long-term relationships. Definitely. I think a lot of people are like, you know, you just look at people and you think, oh yeah, everyone's just very happy and, you know, everything's going fine. And actually, again, like the more you open up, the more you talk to people, the more it's like, oh no, things are up and down and that's okay. Yeah. Like it doesn't mean something's wrong.

Yeah. We can annoy each other. Exactly. You can annoy each other. They can be. Or you can be in a rough pat. Yes. definitely. I don't think people talk openly about that.

No, I think it's quite, I think people feel a bit of shame and weakness around like we're in a rough patch. Definitely. You know, we're working through something. Yeah. Like, you know, it's not easy at the moment. Yeah, yeah. I think even with your closest friends, you hide a lot of that.

You know, people don't talk about the sex lives. They don't talk about, it's very taboo. It's very like, especially after, I think you talk about your sex, you know, you've definitely talk about your sex life more when you're single. And then when you're in a relationship, when you're in a relationship, that's it. The bit where you need. But people are not real about it.

No, they're not. They're not real. They actually come up in conversation, but actually is it, is it real what you've just said? No, or you just trying to make it out that it's like, well, they just do that because they feel embarrassed

or they feel, and actually that's not helping that person either. No, it's not helping you not being open about it. And actually, the more people you talk to, the more you realize actually, God, everyone's got their stuff going on. Just like us in our own lives as women, or moms or whatever,

it's the same as relationships. You know, it's not by the textbook where you make your prints and everything. Go on, that's the other thing, isn't it? Movies just show you one thing and then you think and then no one talks to each other about that. So yeah, definitely. It's hard and it can be harder and, you know,

some things are worth pushing through and some things on. And like you say, yeah, it's nice if people were more honest about it. Definitely. Even sometimes in closest friendship groups, we're not. Oh, yeah. So why, you know. Why would you in with anyone else? Yeah.

And I think how much relationships change over time and go through different stages as well. Like, because of whether it's age. You throw kids in there, you throw careers in there. Hormones. I just about to say hormone changes. Move into different countries. Like there's a lot we have to go through.

Yeah. Like when you've just had a baby. No one knows like what to do. You mean, you've just had a baby. I remember just being like, I don't want anyone to, I don't want to look down there. So I don't, and I don't want anyone to touch there in years, I would say. Just don't, you know. Exactly.

Don't come near me. No, come near me. Don't touch me. And, you know. And then everything, like all that kind of stuff, but no one talks to each other about it. Everyone just gets on with it or does what they think they need to. And thinks that it's just me and my relationship.

Yeah. Like, everyone else is doing better than me. Yep. And then I definitely think that's something people don't talk enough about. Yeah. No, I agree with that. What is something women should stop apologising for? God.

That's a good question. I do everything. I apologize all the time. Yeah. I think it's a very British thing and a very woman thing. Yes. Exactly. I think for doing well, like in careers, I think career is a big one. Career is a big one and jobs in general. Women need to stop apologising for having a career and having a job and doing well at it because and like or sometimes feeling like if they've emasculated, you know, their partner or anything like that.

Just stop that straight away because no. We're in a very different society now, yeah. What is the bravest thing you've ever done? Wow. I think moving to Spain. I think that's a big one. Isn't it? That was huge. At your stage of life.

Yeah. With two young children just going, you know what? We're just going to do it. I think that was a big thing. And a lot of people told us no. Yeah. A lot of people.

Because they wish they could and they don't. Yeah. So I think it's very hard. Like you look to your closest friends. I put this on actually Instagram the other day. We go to our closest friends and family for advice, but all you're met with is their limitations and their unfulfilled dreams of, they couldn't possibly do it so you shouldn't be able to do it. Yeah, definitely.

I think it also comes from a place if they care and they're worried and they're, you know, sometimes it's jealousy, but sometimes it is, I'm so worried for you because you're throwing all this away and you don't know what you're going to get. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, sometimes we just have to rip the band-aid up and be brave. Yeah, exactly. Um, last one, what do you hope your daughter learns from watching you? Oh, wow. Self-confidence, for sure. I think that's the biggest thing, isn't it?

Yeah. Just being confident, being comfortable in who you are and just, yeah. Yeah, I wanted to just do all the things she loves. I wanted to just put herself first, you know, and just, yeah. There's a lot there, but, you know. No, who she is, what she likes, what she wants because she knows what you want and know yourself. And know yourself. Exactly that.

Do the things that you love and that you want to do and, yeah, just. Or don't want to do. Or don't want to do. Exactly. Yeah. 100% know how to say what you want. I think as women especially, we lose that a little bit. Like, we lose our confidence a bit as we get older,

especially becoming mum, they're coming back into the workforce. And, you know, not wanting, we're a bit people pleases. We don't want to make other people uncomfortable or shine too bright in case we, you know, you know, our friends feel uncomfortable because we're doing really well. Like there's a lot that we have to carry.

Yeah. And actually that's part of what the next event's going to be about because I see it so much. that women have all this potential, all these skills, you know, really inspirational, can really help other people. Yeah. But it's almost like contained because they either just don't know how to communicate it. They don't know how to show up for themselves.

They maybe don't have the full self-belief in themselves. Yeah, because they've been told or that the message that the internal voice monologue that they've been given is so different. And it is that because for ages in my career, I was always like, I remember looking up. So I've been in my career in our 10 years. And like, I remember. looking up at all the big bosses, right? All those men in suits and thinking, oh my God, they must be so smart.

Like, they must be so much smarter than me. Yeah. God, imagine when I get there. And then when I got there and talked to these people, I was like, are you joking? I was like, I was smarter than you 10 years ago. Yeah. Like, what is going on and realising that. I think that is something that only comes with age.

Yeah. And it's funny because I was talking to someone even yesterday and they're like, God, you know, the people that I work for, like, I'm doing everything. Yeah. You know, they're the owners. So I was like, because they took the risk. They're not the smartest in the room. That's literally it.

They've been brave enough to take the risk. That's the difference. They figured out how to make it work. And that is by getting other people smarter than them to do it for them. Exactly. And actually the people that are the smartest, usually, what do they say, A players tend to work for senior players. Yeah.

They're more risk takers and, you know, smart people and more risk adverse. Yeah. So actually you end up having really smart people, not always, but sometimes working for the people that take the risk. And also like it is that it's a self-belief. It's the people that had that self-belief that set you aside. Do anything. Literally. But they're the same.

Everyone's the same. Like really. Like we've all had different skills and whatever. Like but at the end of the day you've all got a certain level and you've come to the same level. But yeah, I think that for me was a big realisation. And I've seen so often women go in, you know, there's that saying and it's so true. someone will say, you know, your boss will say, oh, I'm going to give you a pay rise. And the woman will go, oh, what's the job?

You know, what's the new job? No, not pay rise. Oh, you got promotion. Yeah. You got promotion. Then we'll go, what's the job? Can I do it? You know, am I going to be able to do that job?

Yeah. And a man will say, how much more do I get? Yeah. And that is the difference. Even applying for a job, a woman will look at the criteria and only apply if she's got like 90% of it. Yes. And a guy will apply if he's got 60%. Literally.

Because it's just that difference in value. Yes. It's the mentality. mentality. Exactly. And we've been taught things that need to be unlearned. And it's getting better. We are. Yeah, we're definitely a lot more aware. We're definitely a lot more like, you know, see these things. Yeah. See women in these positions now as well. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of what I've learned in myself's career are the things that I specifically want to share with women because I'm like, you are so much more powerful than you give yourself credit for and I want to make you shine. Definitely. And the biggest skill you can have is selling yourself because that is what's got me to where I am. am today is literally like selling myself like in interviews. And it's not boasting. It's not a big ego. Not at all. It's just saying I know I'm good at what I do and I know I can do this for you and this is what I'm worth. Yeah, 100%. And you are, you are already there. Like most of you are already there. You're just, you tell yourself that you need more or you think or have this

perception that these people who are higher up than you just know it better or do so much more. But actually they don't. Like they really don't. Everyone's figuring it out. Of course they are. And you get there and you're like, I mean, that's what I thought. I thought at one point I just feel like an adult. I've never felt like an adult. Still looking for someone who's more of an adult to tell me what to do. I'm like, I need an, is it, an adultier adult than I am?

Yeah. Oh, well, thanks for coming on. It's been a really, really good chat, really interesting. I think a lot of the guests will relate to what we've gone through. And yeah, it's, yeah, I think I've just, Well, I've loved listening to it. It's been very interesting for me. Yeah.

A little bit of everything to see someone who, you know, is in a, in a, you know, who's done all the academics and done all that. And then you can still have a good job but still have choices. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's that balance. It really is. Yeah.

Yeah. And like you just said seeing women in those things, it's a little bit more inspiring. So if we can teach our daughters, our friends and everything to have that confidence that you can do it. I think it's brilliant to see. So. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed it. It's been nice to sort of, you know, chat through it all. Yeah. And you're coming to the next event. So for anyone else watching, because this will go out, you'll still have time.

You won't have much time, but you'll still have a few days to get in touch to join us at our women's event. And it's everything about what we spoke about today is just giving women that safe space to learn from each other, grow. And some of those skills that we might not have picked up that we can get better at to sell ourselves. And, you know, hit our potential. Build our self-confidence because you deserve it. Definitely. Amazing. Well, thanks again for tuning in.

Don't forget to like and subscribe. If you like this conversation, there'll be more coming. And we'll see you next week. You will. Happy summer. Bye. Bye.