The Rising’s Growing Together Podcast - Do You Give Your Partner an Ultimatum? The Truth No One Likes (Audio Only Version)

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

Do ultimatums actually work in relationships or do they quietly destroy connection, trust and long term commitment? In this episode of Growing Together, we dive into a real, honest conversation about ultimatums in relationships and whether they actually work or do more harm than good. We talk about marriage pressure, proposing timelines, boundaries versus ultimatums, and the popular belief of “if he wanted to he would.” From long term relationships and having kids without being married, to addiction, personal boundaries, and relationship deal breakers, this episode explores when drawing a line is healthy and when it becomes controlling. We also share real life experiences around commitment, marriage, parenting, expectations, and how different situations completely change the meaning of an ultimatum. This is not advice. It’s an open conversation for anyone navigating relationships, commitment, marriage expectations, or big life decisions. Let us know your thoughts in the comments. Have ultimatums worked for you or backfired?

The stupid little owls are back. They're not back in my house. If you know, if you've got elves in your house, oh my goodness me. That's all I'm going to say. But elves haven't made us a visit. No, lock a door. Don't invite them. I'm telling you now, they are a menace.

Hi, guys, welcome back. Welcome back. We missed a week. We did. Yeah, we've both been ill, though. I've been ill. I feel, I still feel shit. You're still like just recovering.

Well, I was all right. I felt fine yesterday. And now to this morning, I'm like, oh, I feel ill again. Yeah. But I'm all right. I'm all right, we're here. No, it's, it's been tough. Like, we had the sickness bug.

So it's either the sickness bug or this horrible flu thing. Liam's adamanty had both. Oh, of course. Obviously. But, yeah, it's wiping people out. Yeah, I've heard a lot. I've noticed, obviously, with my appointments, people switching and changing and stuff like that and we've had it, whatever, and a lot of the family have had it.

I don't think I've had it that bad. It's just more of a feeling for me. Yeah. But today I actually took a parasitamol and I don't take anything. So, yeah, I'm feeling it today. I'm more making an excuse that it's the weather. Because I'm like, no, no, I'm not. I've had that.

That's not coming back. Because I have had a few people say like, I've got it again. Don't, don't, please. Because I'm like, oh, I didn't really have it that bad. So I'm like, yeah, I had it, but I'm all right. I was, felt a bit shit. But today I'm like, oh, God. Yeah, because most people are bedbound.

Yeah, I don't feel like I've been like that. I've just been like, feeling sorry for myself more than anything. But we've still done bits. We did our pottery. Yeah, our Christmas pottery tradition. I nearly said making then, but I know I'm going to get told after that. No, we didn't make them. So we picked the stuff off a shelf that was already pre-made and then we painted it.

Yeah. Because we're not allowed to say that we didn't make it. Yeah, I kept saying we're going pottery making and then Mitch was like, oh wow. No, you're not. And then everyone realised we didn't actually make the pots. we just, or whatever we had, we just painted them. So yeah, we did it for us girls, didn't we? So you did the salt and pepper shaker and I made a, oh, it didn't make a paint.

I paid you should have played, God. And then we took the kids back. So we did a little Christmas thing. Really good. Like you say, getting the tree out and hanging all the ornaments back on. I didn't realize how many like homemade things that I've got. And how much it makes that the tree. Home painted.

Yes. Oh dear. Crafted, painted. But like even things that Kaysen had made at nursery. And then we've picked up, we started to pick up like bobbles from places we've been. So when we went on our family holiday in February, I've bought like a palm tree from Jamaica. Yeah. A bobble from Puerto Rico or Costa Rica.

I love that. So a couple of them. Not every stop, but we did a couple. That's what it's about. I mean, we got one when we went to Arizona last year. So yeah, we've got a few. It is nice and it is nice getting them out and looking and then people looking on them. Because I've got, I think I said before, I get the one made every year of on a, on a, like,

It's like a flatball, should you say, of a picture of the three kids and the dog in front of the tree. You know, like so every year. You can see them growing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then when I first ever got them done, I got, say, like 10 of loads of different memories with different people, like my nana, granddad at Christmas and things like that, you know, like that sort of thing of the kids. So we did our Christmas pottery painting. Painting, which is really good.

It was fun, yeah. We haven't gotten back yet, but I've seen a picture because I just let the change. Yeah, Yeah, because it's all like faded pastel-y colors, and then it comes back solid colors. I kept saying that to Lexi. Just remember this is not the colour.

Remember this is not the colour? The greens that most of us use are really dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't look like that. Yeah, no, no. So it was good. It was so, so good. Yeah, because Lexi did a play.

Me and you did a little snowman and I did a little Christmas tree. Kaysen did like a 3D Christmas tree that's going to go on. And I think George did a star. Remy Ray and Morgan did them gongk things. Yeah, I thought they were gnomes, but they said, yeah, okay. Mabel did a Christmas tree plate. Yeah, it was good. It was good.

It was a good time. Time goes. It's like, we were there for two and a half hours. We did it before though, and I was like that a bit with Lexi because I was right, Lexi, come on now. You need to, you need to hurry up. Yeah, you're just on your base color now. Come on. But no, it's a great, it's a great little thing to do.

It is. They're all like little memorable bits. Yeah, they are. Like you say. Yeah. She's got the plates. bring that out every year. Yeah.

And I remember, like, she messed something up and you were like, no, that makes it even better. Yeah. And then she had like an eye for the Christmas and she did a fingerprint. Yeah. So that's cool. Yeah, that was it. I was good. If you mess it just makes it all what it is.

Do you know what I mean? Doesn't have to be picture perfect or anything. It's just what you do and that's how you do it. So, yeah, no. So yeah, we did that. And then we've both been to England. Yes, we have. So since the last time we recorded.

Mine had to be a bit more of a secret because my mom had, the idea, great idea, I'm checking, of doing two surprise parties for my dad, one over here and one in England. And so, again, I had no real part of doing anything, to be fair. My cousin, my auntie, my brother, kind of took over and did everything. It was absolutely amazing.

So obviously we were kind of went out. It was very different because we couldn't just turn up at my brother's house, like you normally would because my mum and dad were there. Yeah. So it was sort of like, not hiding, but sort of hiding. You know what I mean? It was like we couldn't really go in and see anyone. It was really like when I was on holiday, you know, like in my own area.

So it had to wait to the party. Yeah. So the party was great. My dad was, yeah, hugely surprised. It was lovely to, obviously, for him to see everyone and celebrate. Yeah. So that was nice. Did you have a lot of you there?

Yeah. It wasn't as mad as I thought it was because you know what I like? My family are a bit crazy, isn't there at family parties? It was, they was a bit. That's all family parties. Exactly, exactly. But it was good and I think the more you look back at your videos and that, you think, oh, yeah, it was lovely. It's worth it after, yeah.

It feels like a bit of an ag, especially because you've done the surprise one here. So to fly all of you back right before Christmas isn't the best of the ideas. Exactly. It was a lot. It's worth it. And it was. It was lovely to see everyone. And we had our own little kind of, like I said, little mini holiday,

sort of thing. We went to, you know, we went to town. We went to like the ball ring. I took Lexi to like the Sephora and she loved that. So she looked so she yeah looked all around so so excited and but it was busy you can imagine in the ball ring at this time of year. It was packed. Yeah. On a weekend I think it was as well. And but the boys the same. They went in like sideman shops, you know like you know like that sort of thing you know. There's novelty in it because you don't get that here. Yeah. And Lexi and it's a buzz there. When we shop here,

like the, the boulevard can be busy but like I say it's not new. It was very different for them and it was exciting.

It was just new shops. It was all the bigger shops obviously that we don't really go because of the city to you know? Yeah. And then Lexi had wanted this jelly cat thing.

I don't know if you know what it is. I've heard of it. It's just a teddy bear basically. I'm not going to lie. It's a teddy bear. So the idea was

getting one for Christmas but instead of of me just getting her a Christmas present or if she was going to ask Father Christmas, five of Christmas she was bringing her a Christmas present. Because I'd seen that in the ballroom there was in Selfridges, there was a full on jellycat shop area thing. I thought, I thought it would be better for her to have an experience, you know, have a surprise. Yeah, have an experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'd remember that more of getting it or even a first one. In five years, she'll remember that more than she would. That's what she got.

It was a little bit like when we used to go and get our T-Ys. Do you remember? So that sort of thing. So, yeah, so I told her she had a surprise and she thought it was the Sephora because it was such a big thing, you know. And then I took her down and literally she was so overwhelmed. She was just literally didn't know what to choose, what to pick up, bless her.

But she did. She got her first jelly cat, so that was her experience. I had the party there, obviously, for my dad, with all our family. Yeah, it was really lovely, really, really, lovely. I had a really nice time. And then came back. The day we came back, we'd had an early flight anyway.

And I'd promised the kids that I would do the tree the day we got back because it was the 1st of December. And everyone was putting it up like November. And I was really trying to hold it off. Yeah. So I promised you the 1st of December, the day we flew back. Literally we've come in.

After a busy couple of days. Yeah. Very busy couple of days. And come in. And I was just so, oh my God, oh my God, I promise them this. But Mitch got my ginger wine. You got in the mood. We got our music, our Christmas songs on.

And do you know what? The kids did a lot of it. Like, they smashed it out, to be fair. Oh, good. Yeah, like, we did it together. But usually it ends up just me, you know, like. Oh, yeah. Like the most I could get Jason to do this year on the tree was when I come back from England,

I got him in the airport, little Lego bobbles. Yeah. Four bobbles with like Santa, the reindeer, snowman and a present. So he, like, the day I got back, he made them. And then he kept asking to put them on. I'm like, you have to put them on last because of the book. You have to put all the other bits on. I did everything.

And he put those last four baubles on. Can I decorate yet? Yeah. With my one. Mum, you just do it. No, mine did really well. Usually, to be fair, I am a bit more like, no, leave me. I'll do it.

I was going to say, I don't mind. They do have their own tree because of that. But no, they smashed it out. Like, they did everything really well. So, yeah, no, it was, I was really, actually happy. I was like, I'm really proud we did it actually, coming back from England and doing it all. Don't get me wrong. My washing from England is still now piling up to the ceiling, but my tree's up. My tree's up. So there you go. So no, I had a good time. A really good

time. But you went England? I went to England around the same time. Yeah, it was more relaxing. Yeah. So I went the day after my birthday. I went back to our London office. Yeah. So we had our work Christmas party. but I went two days early because the France team flew over to London as well and I did a training, like a training day with them. Well, two, a day and a half of training. So, yeah, a day of all meetings and then training. But it's nice because you just get the vibe of the office.

I was going to say it's a different, because you're so used to being working from home. Yeah, or going into an office with a couple of people. Yeah, or screen, if you know what I mean. Being there in a different, country, atmosphere, office, surroundings, whatever it is that you're in. Do you know what I mean?

I think it's loads of different people. It was great because I've missed the last two Christmas parties. So when I joined this company, I went to the first one. Then the following year, I was just flying to America or just getting back from America, so I missed it. And then last year, I was technically on maternity leave,

but they still invited me anyway. But me and Liam went to Arizona, so I missed it as well. So I hadn't been for two years. But no, it was really nice. It was good to catch up, like, say, with people in person. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of these people I speak to online.

But it's so much better doing, especially training stuff and, like, work. So it's, yeah, nice to do things in person. Nice, like you said, buzz, but, you know, work, professional. And then you've got your Christmas thing, which is still work. But it's a different vibe, isn't it? It's a lot more relaxed. Yeah. And this is a new.

Human, you know what I mean, kind of thing, isn't it? That's what you felt like. No, it was great because the office that I went to, they only moved to that in the last year or so. So hadn't been to that office anyway. So that was in Farringdon. So yeah, it was like in a huge big building. We've got like one floor of whatever, however many floors is in this building.

Really nice, cool office. And loads of people I don't even know because as, like, our company is the corporate side of the business, like helping businesses exchange. and the private side help an individual. So I'm on the private side. There's probably half of the people I have never even spoke to you, have no idea who they are.

But it's nice just to walk around. You've got like the marketing department. You've got the IT department. Then you've got all the traders and all that stuff. I think it's nice to see it in real life. It's nice to see it in real life. And like you say, you get that office kind of buzz and then. And buzz for what you're working for and what you're doing and going,

I work. I work. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm part of these. Yeah. It's really cool.

Really nice office. Huge like kitchen. they've got like all different teas and coffees and toast. I had marmite on toast. Yeah. And then yeah we went to a few nice places for food. And then yeah, so the first, so I flew Wednesday, just went straight to my hotel because it was late in the evening. And then went to the office all day Thursday.

Went out for a curry and drinks with some of the guys that evening. Then the next day, again, half a day training. But then we kind of rocked off a little bit early. one I just actually went back to my hotel room and just had like a nap and food like because it was a day and a half of me doing a lot of it so it does catch up with me I put so much energy into it even after our events I get like a lot of the time I'm not careful I get headaches so yeah I just kind of chilled a bit got ready and then yeah we had a lovely Christmas evening like meal we had like drinks we had a it was a really fancy I

I don't know if it, I don't think it's a hotel because it's called something rooms. So I think it's just a really fancy building with lots of rooms for this kind of thing. So we had like. Like an event. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like for weddings, for parties for corporate events and events and stuff. So yeah, we, we had like drinks and it's all really fancy dress.

Yeah. So like they kind of said it's black tie, but it's not black tie. If you don't have a, if you don't have a taxi, you don't have to buy one. No. But basically like. That's the style of that. I was to impress that I think was the official thing. Yeah, which is nice.

I nearly last minute bought like an expensive dress because I'd seen it and it was all sparkly and Christmasy and I was like, oh, that looks nice. Again, I would never have bought it if I'd seen it on ASOS, but because an influencer that I follow in real life looked really smart. But no, I've actually bought it, but for some reason my card didn't like it. And then I went to book it the next day, but then it was a day too late to get to get there. So then I was going to send it to the office. I was like, this is just too much tag. I've got a dress with tags on it. Yeah.

I had a dress that I'd bought in the summer with tags on to go to a wedding, but I didn't end up wearing it in the end. So I ended up just rocking up in a 20 euro on sale. There you go. The red. Was it red? Yeah. It was like hot pinky red.

So I was like, it feels too summery. But actually, when I was there, it did look more red. And other people were wearing red because it's Christmasy. So, yeah, mingled in. So, yeah, we had the drinks and we went in, had like, a sit-down, free-course meal. It's a pre-planned table plan, so obviously everyone don't know where they're sitting. And last minutes, everyone's checking. I was on the table with my boss, the CEO, the CFO, investors in our company.

So, yeah, like, the top dogs are the company. Merry Christmas and good night. But that is great, actually. We've got some really cool people that we work with. But that's good. You know, this is what I mean. You can sit with your bosses, your CEOs, whatever you want. And you know you get what your targets that you get for the business

and do what you do for your teams and the people that you train and you know, you get the results that you get. But at the end of the day, we are still human. And this is celebrating Christmas together for God's way. You know, this is Christmas. This is nothing else, you know. And they do awards as well. So a couple of people got like awards because we all voted for people.

And yeah, like I was sat next to the, I think he was head of compliance. So like all of the, like our regulations and stuff like that. So he went to the other room and then the CEO comes out next to me and spoke to me. But it's nice because, yeah, it's like, yeah, we are all normal people. Yeah, but obviously when it gets back to Monday, it's back to work and serious. Well, I didn't hear any goss. And then I thought a lot of people were well behaved. I think a few people were told behave, you know, after last year.

But no, I didn't hear any goss. But then that kind of wrapped up by 11 because everything finishes. Yeah, cool. We started at six. Yes. So six to 11. And then on the way back, around the corner from my hotel, I clocked loads of people that were stopped in a bar.

So I ended up stopping and having a few drinks with some of them afterwards. So yeah. I love that. And then, yeah, slept, flew back home the next day. Nice. So it was a nice, productive, fun weekend. Yeah. You know what I mean?

festive as well. Yeah, it was really, really good. It always goes by so far. So I was away for three nights. So it was a long time to, like, leave Liam and the boys. Yeah. but, you know, they're all well taken care of. And like I say, I barely even spoke to them.

I felt a guilt. I think I only FaceTime them once or twice. Because I'm like, I'm in an office all day. Then I'm at a meal with them. Then I'm at an office all day. Then I'm at Christmas party. Like, just non-stop. You're doing more than you would do at home.

Oh, for sure. It's not even like I was just chilling. Yeah. But he knows and respects that as well. You know, you don't feel that pressure to have to. No, I did think that. whatever you want to do. That is one really good thing with Liam, like you say,

because he is quite chilled. He wasn't messaging me constantly. Like you're checking, like, how's it going? How's your training? Like, you're going to smash it. Like, so it was nice to get some messages throughout the day. Not messaging you feel. You've not called me.

Why haven't you called me? Or even just, like you say, sort of messages that are not even that direct, but that make you feel that you need to be. Yeah, like, oh, you forgot you got a family. Yeah, like indirect digs or how you get in on. Yeah, that would annoy me if he would be like, that. But no, it was really cool. You understands, obviously, that it's just non-stop. It's a nice feeling to know that I'm very much like that with anything anyway. So, yeah,

we're very lucky and that was like, very, very lucky. So yeah, that was, that was really fun. I've had, Lexi had her, she had to turn the, she switched the lights on, the Christmas lights on in Pina. Yeah. And she's part of a flamenco dance school. So she did that, her flamenco dance. Yeah, it was good, it was lovely. Obviously, I felt, it was probably the worst night of that. was the night I felt like, can we just please hurry up and go. Do you know what I mean? Whereas you usually I'm at the friend with my camera. This was an earlier one. That is an earlier one.

That was. But it was lovely. They even had like fake snow coming off the roof and everything. It was really cool. Because at first I was like what is that? You know, is it, I thought it was like the dust from the fire. It's like stupid. It doesn't even exist but dust from fireworks. Then after a while obviously it started pumping and it was. And then they went and did their dance. So no, that was lovely.

She's done that for a while now. She's really stuck in. She's done Flienko for a long, long time. Yeah, a good few years now. That's good because, like I say, I was definitely a flip-flopper as a kid with like hobbies and stuff. She has been with, we were literally talking about yesterday with her friend. She's done rhythmic gymnastics.

She's done guitar. She has tried a lot. She's done a lot. Loads. So is the boys, to be fair, but they've always stuck with one. With at least one, yeah. Which for them is football and flamenco. Yeah.

Kaysen's got his show coming up this weekend. And he's drama, isn't it? Yeah. So this is. his fourth one so for two years he's been going to that do you know what I mean

it is every week well obviously Alex is twice when rehearsals come it's every day of the week two hours it's a lot so she's got now her next one is she's turning the lights on in Marcia

oh nice so yeah she gets turned the light and I know do whatever she's got to do so yeah she's doing that the dance group that she goes to are very involved

and like doing the performances because normally like you say it's a show but they're like always doing something somewhere. Parade, switch on, whatever. The only thing they don't do is competition, which I've noticed. None of them do competition. None of the classes do do competition.

I think competitive stuff's good for kids, but at the same time, it's also nice to just not have to have that competitive side to it. Yeah. It depends how much I think you can't do something. I think being able to at least show it is good because there's nothing worse and getting good at something can just, you do nothing with it. Yeah, exactly.

So we did that, that was lovely. Well, I felt shit, but it was lovely. You helped Morgan with his nativity. Morgan's Nativity. Oh, bless him. So we had this kind of project at school. Well, it was actually a competition, but at the same time, it's sort of a mark for his technology as well.

So they had to make their own nativity. Yeah. So we had like the dimensions of what it had to be, or no bigger, if you know what I mean, or no smaller. So that was hard enough. But to start it off, we kind of just, you know what it's like here in the Chinese shop, everything, aren't you? So we kind of smashed it. It is. So we kind of smashed it out the first time with a vision of what I had and like sent him into school. You had or Morgan had?

Well, we had together. We had together because he was just in a Chinese shop. He ends up going to another aisle and I'm sitting in like, right, what are we doing? You know what I mean? And he's coming back with other stuff, you know, like on the next aisle. So, so we did go into school with this, with this vision that we had together. And then he came home with it, which we, what he'd done. And to be fair with the tools or whatever you want to say because it's not like he has what I had in secondary school not even here in England like your technology woodwork room you know like that was brilliant yeah nothing like that and I don't even think I sent him in with a glue gun or anything you know what I mean so um he'd come back with it and to be fair with what he had it was it was all right

but I was a bit like I feel like we need to just do it let's start again so Let's start again the day before. I literally kind of swiped the board that we had, flipped it over and kind of built on that and made the, I nearly said shed. It's a stable, isn't it? Stable. The stable and the baby and Mary and Jose.

Oh, right. Okay, yeah. And that, that. Yeah, and all that kind of thing. And so we smashed it out, but it was like another day of Lexi had a party, the other side of the blue moon. and Mitch had to go obviously go and pick Morgan out. I took Lexi to a party.

Then obviously I was helping Morgan with the nativity. So Morgan came here with Mitch. Mitch stayed there with Lexi. I went with Morgan. You know what it's like with kids, hobbies, parties, everything else. Homework. So yeah, me and Morgan got home. We literally all had dinner in different places as well.

Wherever you are, just eat because it's just going to be easier. Yeah, we're not going to be out to eat together. So me and Morgan obviously did our dinner and we started at whatever time we got home. finished after bedtime hours. Literally. I was so happy with it for him, bless him. Because it was a sort of, he was really getting involved, but at the same time, bless him, like, oh, my finger where his butt on the blue gun.

And then I'm like, oh, my finger. You know, like, it's not staying up. But we got there. It's one of those things that sounds nice in your head. Yeah, yeah. But it's not a one day, it's not even a few hour project. This is something that I should have been done, just like he was at school. But it was just the way it went.

but that was another thing we smashed out. Oh, yeah, so then we flipped it over. I'm not going to like. Yeah. So yeah, we've had a lot of not going on. We've done a lot of Christmassy things to be fair. The elves? Fuck the elves.

Fuck the elves. The stupid little elves are back. They're not back in my house. If you know, if you've got elves in your house, oh my goodness me. That's all I'm going to say. Well, the elves haven't made us a visit. Don't lock your door. Don't invite them.

Every little corner if they can create something. elf door because I'm telling you now they are a menace they're cute sort of but they are they are little fuckers I'm telling you now I am telling you now you go to bed thinking everything's nice and chilled and God knows what goes on but what baffles me is like Santa's watching the kids a lot before Christmas and they have to behave right so they send these elves to these kids houses Surely it should be to show them how to behave. I think it's just to show. Why don't these elves show them like, this is how you make your bed.

This is how you help your mum. No, no, this is how you make them next. Why are elves naughty? Yeah, it gives me a little bit of a heart attack every time we go downstairs of what an earth is going to happen. Well, I saw Chloe Kardashian posted what her elves got up to one night. They'd left a little note saying, I went out to get candy and I might have crashed your mum's car. So the daughter was like, oh my God, because she's about six or seven or whatever. So she's obviously filming her.

She's followed her into the garage. Her range rovers part, the doors are open. There's stuff everywhere because they've crashed it into the garage. They've knocked all their bikes and their cars over and obviously boxes of her Chloe popcorn stuff that she's littered everywhere. This is what I mean. They're little pricks. So, yeah, no, luckily the elves haven't paid a visit. I think it's to show the children how naughty you can be

and don't even think about it because the reaction of your mum and dad, I don't want the reaction with me. Yeah, exactly. We'll be naughty and then you be good. Yeah, I think even one of my own, they haven't been that bad this year. It was like they have.

They have. Oh, no, hopefully we don't get any visits. We've had no questions. So, yeah, Kaysen, if you're happy, we're happy. Let's just not invite the elves to our house. That's what I was saying. So to finish us off, I have a question. Do ultimatums work?

Oh, okay. So when I think about an ultimatum, obviously it's saying to someone, you like do this or else. Like consequences, this is what I want you to do. Do it or else. And the main one that kind of comes up when I think about automatoms is women telling their blokes to propose. Okay, yeah.

Well, some people go really severe with that. Or we're over. Yeah. So you want to marry this man. Yeah. But you're going to tell him that unless you do, we're going to break up. Yeah. But it could be anything.

It could be like, buy me this Christmas present or I'm not going to talk to you. Yeah, see, I think that's a bit pushy. I just think I wouldn't want. I'm a bit like, well, if you're not going to do it or you don't feel like you want to do it, why would I want to make you do it? or even, but at the same time, like, you know, some people don't have an imagination or a, or a, you know what I mean? I don't know.

There's a difference between an ultimatum and a boundary. I feel like it's a negative. I think so. I feel like it's more of a, I know, someone said that to me, I'd go, fuck off. That's how I feel. Instant defensive. You know what I mean?

That's how I feel. Even if you're thinking, like, actually I would do that, But don't tell me. Yes. Yes. It's a little bit like, well, I can say that about my best friend,

but you can't say that about my best friend. It's a bit like one of those things, isn't it? So it's, it's, I feel like it's a negative thing. But then when I, you know, my way of my head goes,

when you kind of delve deeper into different, probably what situations could be. Yeah. Some explanations could probably be like, right, I kind of get it. But first off, I think,

I think it's more of a negative. I wouldn't want to give. I think when ultimaters come about trying to get what you want in a relationship, I don't think it works. Yeah. I think if you have to give someone an ultimatum to propose to you, to make it official, to take things to the next step, like move in together. Like I think when it comes to relationships, like ultimatums of the next big milestone,

I think that's a recipe for disaster. It's a bit pushy in it. It's pushy, but I think like you say, if the other, if you're having to give someone an ultimatum, don't want to do what it is you're asking them to do because if they did they would do it you could you by the time you get to an ultimatum you've already had multiple conversations you've already make hints you've already had conversations around what you want to do if you wanted to we would what's that peri song exactly if he wanted to we would yeah and when she announced her when she announced her second pregnancy she put if he wanted to we would it's so true it is but

then at the same time I do feel not that I actually probably know many of them but there's probably a few, like I'm just going to say men because it's the easier way. I don't want to get, I can go on at me anyone. But that they would, they're not really bothered about getting married. But if she wants to, I'll get married. Sort of a thing. Does that make sense? But then surely the conversations that you have,

because she knows she wants to in a way. Conversations and hints should be enough. Yeah, I suppose. If you're actually having to say, unless you propose to me by Christmas, we're over. I would be a bit more like, well, do you want him to, do you want someone? you have to give an ultimatum to to be your husband.

Because in my eyes, they don't actually want it. For example. So I had this conversation with someone recently and then, yeah, my view is that especially when it comes to things like that, you're pushing someone to do something they don't actually want to do

and it's just kind of saying. Or doesn't seem to be. It doesn't seem to be. And you're probably setting yourself up for, at some point, you know, failure because you are pushing someone to do something they don't want to do. But then when I have,

had this conversation, another person said, yeah, but they're a type of person that if they didn't ever kick up the ass, they would never do it. So it's like, that, that's what I mean. You know, like in some situation, I get that. But then a conversation, a hint, but that's what I mean. It may be hard for us to believe because of how, I've got to admit, how our men are. Our men are very on it. Yeah. Like, I think I mentioned once that maybe maybe even, I don't even have a dressing gown and that same week after I vent Mitch when I got me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. They are very on listening of where,

what we want, need. Sometimes I don't even know what I want or need. Do you know what I mean? So maybe just because we're not used to it, it's hard for us to believe that some people are, you can be so obvious with something. But I think even between friends,

like if you said to me, unless you don't stop talking to that person, like we're not friends anymore. Like you say, it's like pushing people to do something that they don't want to do. I don't think ever gets you what it is that you actually want. Yeah.

But then, I was talking to somebody else saying that we might talk about this in the pod and they were saying, yeah, but what about things where it's like, you know, someone who has a bit of an addiction and it's like, unless you stop, like, then we're leaving. Then I'm like, those kind of ultimatums I get a bit more because you're delving. You kind of have to push those kind of people. Yeah. So when exactly that. So when you have, when you, that's what I'm saying. So when you first said it to me, my first thought was that's negative. That's, you know, no. that I would, if someone did it to me, I'd just say, fuck off. Like, no. And again, giving it to someone else, you think, well, if you've got to give it to them,

I don't really think I'd want that, give my energy to you anyway. I want you around. That's just not that sort of person I'd want in my life. Exactly. If that makes sense. It shouldn't be that hard. No. But then, when you actually probably all like that for a different scenario.

That example, then you think, well, actually, I kind of sort of get it, you know, because it's a different situation. It's a different thing. But is that, is that an ultimate. or is that then a boundary? Because, you know, whenever I've watched shows or I speak to people that have like addiction or problems within the family,

it's set in a boundary of we're not accepting that, we're not tolerating that, so maybe it's more of a boundary. Yeah, but I think it's a little bit of both. Because it's giving them that also, but it's also showing them that that is your boundary and that actually, oh shit, they are serious. Yeah.

And it's not just about me not being, you know, making this choice. It's about the fact that actually this is who, you know. And they probably, you get more respect because of that is what you're not letting happen. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary. The boundary

is like this is how I want our relationship to be or what I want it to look like. But I think ultimatons have like a deadline. Yeah, that's what I mean. It feels like more of a negative. It just feels more of a negative, doesn't it? In actual fact, that probably... It's pressure, isn't it, really? Yeah. In actual fact, again, they're probably

very similar in what they're trying to do but the way they go around the the meaning or the explanation of it again that for me first off feels very negative and I'm not going to listen and I'm not going to do that whereas that feels more of a well actually I respect you more for that and I will listen and I'm going to try and do it for that

it's a weird weird thing just from two different ways of putting something forward actually really I think I think again it depends on what it is I do feel more do you know when you say about that I think it's more programmes of Sin on obviously or films or whatever, but with the,

I'm going to call it an obsession. I'm going to say it's an obsession, but I don't know. Obsession to be being proposed to. Yeah. Because I never felt that. No. At all, you know, at all.

Yeah. Of that, you know. But that, you know, of, well, if he isn't going to propose, then we're not, we're not going to be together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just don't.

It's weird, actually. I don't get that. Because for you, I never really thought that for you either. Like I was never like God Mitch when are you going to do it like hurry up like because you've got your family you've got like if it happens it happens I never really even as a friend felt like I needed or wanted that for you. Yeah like to Mitch come on but then having said that it's all in the in the newspapers or magazines or whatever or has been every now and then it comes up that Sam Fears from Tawi yeah who is now three kids deep more than 10 years whatever it is with her partner and he's still not proposed. But the difference is she's expressed that that's what she wants. So I think for you, you've always been a bit like,

if it happens, it happens. It's not my dying wish to be married. No. But for her she has, so for the women that are in long relationships, and all they want is to get married. I just find that really, who, that was, who else, I find that was with, what was that, it's not her friend, I'm probably wrong.

The other girl, there's the sisters and then there's the friend. Fern. Fern. I felt... They're not friends anymore. Okay. Sorry. You're well out of it. There was a voice note of her slagging off one of the sisters and then it can come out.

Okay. Well, I clearly do not watch anything like that anymore. But I thought that she had that kind of thing with her fella and I don't think he gives her even much... Affection. It's a weird one. I don't watch it. It's a weird one because a lot of people have a lot of opinions about their... their relationship because they have been on TV show with their relationship.

So obviously she started when she was first pregnant with her first kid and then they did like the baby dies, whatever. And then they had the sister show with all the kids in it. And they got a lot of flack for their relationship because he isn't very affectionate. He doesn't seem to have much emotion. He doesn't seem to, I don't know, have any info about him. Yeah. Bit magoo.

Yeah. Obviously you can just go off what you see. So behind closed doors, who knows? And they got pregnant very quickly. So it could just be that she's wanting to just stay to keep the family together. Or he's a different person without the cameras because he isn't that type of person. And they kind of not forced him into it. But yeah, it wasn't his plan to be a reality TV guy.

So maybe it's just that. But I think the difference is she wants it. Yeah. And it's quite well known. She spoke about wanting to get married. And it's just gone on for like 13 odd years now. That's a long, I think for me, I think if anyone ever mentioned anything,

I think I had my vision as because I had my first child so young that if I was going to ever married, I'm married as a family. Well, you already, yeah, exactly, you already put it off. So it's like, yeah, I definitely can't get married for at least 10 years because I want all my kids. Now I've started, I want all my kids at the wedding. That's how I felt.

So. That kind of put the pressure off, really. Yeah, exactly. You turned her right off. But like you said, you knew that it would be nice to be married but at the same time you were never or like you were desperate that it needed to be at a certain time but I think I do feel for those women because in one way I'm like

oh I don't know if I'd care I obviously got engaged quite young so I never really got to the point of I was waiting for it but at the same time I don't think I'd want to be a 20 year girlfriend yeah or not like you yeah I do I think you well I don't know I was yeah but like Jake is you've had your kids and you were doing it, you were putting it off. But it's more, it's more than knowing, I think if you're quite, if you are so, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're, you know, a girl, any, anyone, whatever, but if you're, you know, a girl who's had that dream of being a bride and you've got your prince and you've got your children or whatever, you haven't got your children, you got your parents, and, you know, it's quite well known and he knows that that's how you feel and it's still, I can kind of, I'd question a bloat, to be honest, I do kind of, I kind of a kind of, a kind of, a kind of, a kind of, a kind of a kind of, a kind of.

understand, well, are we, are we not? Because you know it's something I really want. It's just like going and them supporting you and having a career or whatever it is. To be honest, it was only really when I saw someone talk about getting divorced and how, like, obviously everyone talks about how bad divorce is. But it's like marriage is a lot bigger than what people think. Yeah, we can get divorced. Yeah, you can move on. But you're actually signing a contract.

I know. I don't think people, I don't think people realize, like, what you're actually signing into it. what that contract means. So if you end up becoming a millionaire because you started a company, like Mitch gets half. Yeah, because that's what the contracts are.

Exactly. And there's been celebrities that have, like, people are coming for half of their stuff or trying to get royalties on songs that they've wrote about them. And, you know, like, you don't realize the impact

of the contract that you're signing. And I don't necessarily agree that, you know, those contracts are very, very old. Yes. Like, it's been around for, yes. So I don't necessarily agree in the, we have to sign a bit of paper for it to be love.

I don't think that. But I think there needs to be some sort of symbol that you're committing to each other, whether that is actually signing, whether that is just a ceremony and you don't actually sign because it's not for you, whatever. But I think there needs to be some sort of sign of commitment. Yeah.

But it needs to be, like you say, if the woman really wants it and you've got kids to get. Kids are lifelong, like at the end of their, that's more of a commitment than marriage. I feel that for what we, especially me and Mitch have been through, over, so we're getting married on our 20 year anniversary. So what we've been through in them 20 years.

Yeah. And that's a lot. And I haven't even got halfway through certain things that we've gone through kind of thing on this podcast. But I feel like that we've already proven that commitment without signing a contract. For sure. However, in other. the situation. Yeah, I do, I do. I do. Yeah. I just want to, I actually want to do

what we're doing more just to, I don't know really, just to see all that. More of a celebration of like, we've come through a lot. Yeah, like that actually, because I did see something the other day. I can't remember, I think it was Holly Hagan, who was on Geordie Shore. She'd done an interview with this guy, Paul. I actually quite like his interviews, this podcast on YouTube. And she was

saying, like, they waited six years to have their son, their first kid, she's now, and now she's pregnant of her second. But she was like, we've been through a lot that I feel like we can get through anything now. Like with their first kid, he cried for a year and a half. They did not enjoy being parents. They nearly broke up over it. So she was quite honest with not many people admit that. She's like, I get why a lot of people break up in that first year.

And people aren't honest about it either. People are so quick to post how picture perfect life is. Exactly. So she's come out and said, I didn't enjoy, I've not enjoyed being a mum until now. And actually we're really scared about having a second one because of what we went through. But I feel like we're more prepared. So she's been honest. But I think I like that because, yeah, me and Liam got married after we've been together 10 years.

And even at that point, we were still young. We hadn't gone through a lot. Like I feel like a lot of people meet someone within a couple of years, they're getting married. And it's like you haven't really experienced the highs and lows and the curveballs that life froze at you enough to survive. it and I feel like yeah sometimes people are a bit too quick to jump into getting married I feel like long engagements good couple of years together you know losing family members you know big job losses or new careers like there's so many life is so unpredictable and not all of it's good no and a lot of it is inevitable going to happen at some point um you know miscarriage all those things

that you just don't expect so like to sign at that contract. so early on. It is. When you put it like that, yeah. Me and Mitch have been through things that people don't even go through in their 60 years of marriage.

Yeah. So I know that, again, it makes no difference to us if we get married or not get married. It really makes no difference. But it's going to be lovely for that memory and just that moment with our children and our parents and brother and sister.

And I quite like the wife thing. Yeah. Like, it feels more official. It's a bit easier because do you know how many different names I'm called? Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't ever call, say, I'm Mitch's fiancé. Yeah, no, fiancé is a weird word. I never really like the fiancé thing.

Partners, what I use a lot. I think I even still say partner sometimes. Partners is what I use a lot. I think it was like an age thing when I stopped using girlfriend. I don't know why. It's true because, like, you say, you get to an age where you don't feel like girlfriend's appropriate. Yeah, so I didn't, I haven't used girlfriend a long, long time.

Partner's the word, I think. Yeah, and I feel like I can't use wife because I'm not his wife. Yeah. It's such a weird thing, isn't it? I basically am but I'm not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen people like where the bloke's referred to them oh it's my wife and it's like, did you marry me?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you put a ring on it? He did say, Mitch Steven says when he says it to someone he goes, I had to say well because it was just easier than it was like, okay, it's fine. No, it's true. Like, I think I think, yeah, some of the whole wedding marriage contract stuff is a little bit outdated but at the same time I think I must still hold

some traditional things for it because I definitely would prefer to be called someone's wife. Yeah. Obviously, you sign the paper on the day and you don't think about it again until you get divorced. And it depends on people see different things of what a wife is and what marriage is, you know. Exactly. So what we're thinking and what we're talking about. Well, ours never changed us.

And I think that's, Liam always says that. Well, it's obviously good because like it never changed us. Yeah. Like our roles and what we do is our version of what a relationship is and what works for us. Exactly. And getting married never really changed that. And you didn't need to give each other an ultimatum to get there. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly that. So I didn't actually have to obviously to do anything. I was completely shocked when I was proposed to. So I was like, wow. Yeah. But I've had to give automates, well, you didn't do the kids. different situations but first off of that conversation and that debate and in that situation I would say it's a negative I would say it's a little bit of a red flag and in my eyes as let's just

because of this conversation yeah as a woman yeah is that the really man that you want is that the husband that you want but that's just me that's just how I would feel you know what I mean so because if you have to drag him down the aisle like or more or less is it going to last and is he a type of person like you say is he going to be? Or at the same time, is it just because you can even want to know? You know, like, well, are we or not? Because if you're not, it's not. I think a lot of people say that.

Like, I don't need it tomorrow, but I need to know that it's in our relationship. And I'm not waiting 15 years for it. But, you know, and I think that's fair enough. I think that's fair. Because you can go on to call even like children. And like I say, if you want it and you know that's in your future, you need to know early on. Like, are we on the same page?

Do we both want marriage? What type of wedding? What type of marriage? Do we both want kids? What kind of lifestyle do one? And I think that is one thing that I don't think many people talk about. No. Finances.

Like how most people know each other's finances or combined finances or even keep it separate, but you just know. But then some, I see people that are getting married and they don't know what the other person has or has. That's actually more common than I thought. Nowadays, I think it is. Yeah. Especially because if you do meet later on in life, But yeah, I think it's a bit, it's a bit strange.

It is, but again, this is the way things are now. If it works for there, but I think, yeah, it's strange for me because I've never done that. But I think the main takeaway is before jumping into marriage, you should be on the same page with, what are your life values? What do you want your lives to look like? What do you value? Is it traveling? Is it having money saved?

Is it splurgeon? Like, you have to be on the same page with some. of those when i think even um i was watching one of those shows love is blind or whatever so they they they meet they fall in love but they don't see each other then they are engaged for four weeks before the wedding and they get to see each other and then they have to decide and some of them were talking about like abortion like well if i was to fall pregnant and i found out that the baby was disabled and the doctors advised me that you could continue with a pregnancy or not i would get an abortion and the bloke's like well that's completely against what i

And it's like, would you ever have that conversation with someone that you're talking about getting married to? No. Well, me and Mitch actually have had that conversation. Weirdly enough. That's a really, really weird example because it's so random. But yeah. Not most people do. They're not.

But none of those conversations are. But at the same time, going on to the ultimatum question, I would, again, it depends on the situation. But generally, having to give someone an ultimatum would also make me question. The whole thing. What's going on? You know what I mean? Again, I know we give it to our children and I can't really get rid of them.

Yeah, but they're small things. You know, but just, yeah, they ask. That's what I'm saying. So it depends on the situation. Yeah. But I would also probably, you know, look at the question of, well, if I've got to give this person,

like an ultimatum. Yeah. That's a bit of a red flag for me. Well, I'd like to hear from the listeners. If you have given an ultimatum and it's all worked out. Yeah. Or has it flopped and it's gone completely against you?

Or has it actually, yeah, it's not. work, then yeah, let us hear your story. And why? Like you said, all of the, there's fucking loads of different reasons, you know what I mean, of why and how. Yeah. So, but the first question of that is, I didn't realize how common it was, actually, of, of the automatum of like, are you going to propose or that's it? Yeah. I think with women, you feel that like biological urge and, like, your friends are, you know, you just feel like you're at a stage of life where you think you need it. And I think you should probably do some internal work

as well because but if you are years deep if you are serious if you have kids and if you're living together and if it's something that you really want then yeah I think you should yeah it's a different question not give an ultimatum but definitely have a conversation do you want this or not and and decide what to do about it but yeah I don't think given the ultimate or just making it clear of how much it means to do you yeah you know and then nothing coming from it and if it's not red flag right guys uh we'll catch up with you again soon. Yeah, we will and watch out for them fucking elves. Yes. Don't forget to like and subscribe. Do it. I don't know what we're up to but we're I think over 150 odd now.

Get in. Keep going. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks guys. Take care.