The Rising’s Growing Together Podcast - Narcissistic Abuse & Losing My Dad to Parkinson's Holly's Story

Episode Date: June 14, 2026

This week on the Growing Together Podcast, We sit down with Holly for one of our most emotional and inspiring conversations yet.Holly shares her journey of becoming a single mum at just 21 years old, navigating a toxic and abusive relationship, rebuilding her confidence, and raising her son on her own.She also opens up about one of the hardest experiences of her life: watching her dad battle Parkinson's Disease and eventually having the heartbreaking conversation where she told him it was okay to let go.This episode is about resilience, motherhood, grief, strength, and finding the courage to choose a better life even when everything feels impossible.If you've ever experienced loss, struggled in a difficult relationship, faced challenges as a parent, or needed a reminder that you're stronger than you think, this conversation is for you.❤️ Don't forget to like, subscribe and share this episode with someone who may need to hear it.

In today's episode, we're sitting down with another fantastic guest whose story is one of resilience, but also heartbreak and strength and hope. So from becoming a single parent, navigating a few abusive relationships and experiencing the devastating loss of a parent through a terminal illness. This story will leave you inspired and deeply moved. It did me and Charlotte, so I'm sure it will for you guys as well. The conversation isn't just about surviving difficult times, but about finding the strength. to keep moving forward when life doesn't always go to plan. Grab a coffee, get comfortable and join us for a real, raw, honest and powerful conversation that reminds us all,

even on our darkest moments, the growth is still possible. Hi guys, welcome back to another week of the pod. Welcome, Holly, to The Shed. Hey! Or The Rising's growing together. Sounds better than the Shed. Yeah, but it is. It is the Shed. Welcome to the Shed. Thank you for having me.

You're very welcome. I'm excited to have you. Just a little, kind of a quick background. You guys actually used to work together. We did. We've met briefly once years ago at a baby shower. So all of what we're going to talk about today is going to be new for me. And everything anyone tells me, I forget anyway.

Yeah, she's got the mind of a fish, so she's probably been like, really? But, no, you've got a lot of big things that you've gone through in your life. And I think big things that a lot of us, audience will relate to, so I'm excited to dive into it. Yeah, I am on my time. So we'll start with the question that we ask every guest at the beginning. What is one thing or one quote that you're living life by right now? What I live by now, so I would probably say that life is too short. You never know when your time is going to come to an end. So just live life to the fullest. Yeah. And are you? You're living by that? I am now, yes. Good. Yeah. Good. Yeah, no, I think that's something

that you hear all the time. Yeah. And sometimes you're like, I believe it. I genuinely believe it. Yeah. Especially like what my family's gone through recently with losing people.

Like it just brings it so much more of a real perspective. Yeah. But you can have all these plans. But like, you know, you really do just need to take it day by day, not worry about the little, the little things.

But I think even, even I struggle to actually truly like, embody it and live by that. Yeah. Any advice on, on how to. to really live like you're not sure when tomorrow. Not think too much about it. Yeah.

And just go with it. Yeah. Just go with it. Don't think too much into it and what anyone else would ever say on anything you want to do. Yeah. Just go with it.

Yeah. Trust your gut. I think that is the one thing when people say, you know, you're not guaranteed tomorrow is because a lot of people struggle with other people's opinions and then they hold themselves back a bit.

So that is, I think, the biggest thing. If you can work on not worried about other people's opinions, I think that can really help you live in the moment. Oh, 100%. And do the things that you want to do. 100%. Yeah. I'm not so about people's opinions.

I think it's just more, like you say, I probably just think about things that are not probably so important. Every now and then. You know, you get moments. Like I wish, I'd have to remind myself, I suppose, to live in the moment. Yeah. And I do have to. And then when I've reminded myself, I'll be like,

chill out. just living in your moment. You find that sort of thing, you know? Exactly. But it is, I do definitely need to remind myself to do it. Yeah. And I'm glad I do. Yeah, definitely.

Definitely. So if someone was to meet you today compared to a young Holly, what do you think are kind of the biggest differences? Back to when I was younger, I would say I was a lot more shy and a lot more reserved. And now, obviously, I'm a lot more outgoing, a lot more friendly, I would say. put myself out there a little bit more but yeah I think that was probably what I would say that I was a lot more reserved and a lot shy

more shy when I was younger whereas now I've got older I kind of put myself out there a lot more and yeah yeah you're a lot more open to conversation you're the one who would actually maybe start a conversation before you avoid the conversation yeah exactly that exactly that

so before I would feel you know a bit more reserved wouldn't want to talk to anybody would be nervous about what to say to someone, but now I'm kind of a bit more open. I can happily have a conversation with anybody whether I've met them for the first time or whether I've met them 10 times. Yeah. It would still be the same for me. Do you think that's just growing up and maturing or do you think that's life experiences or a bit of both? I would say it's a bit of both. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. A bit of both for sure. We're not all blessed with that from a young age. Some people are. Some people

it's very natural for them to be social and be able to interact. without overthinking every conversation and stuff, which I definitely did. But I think getting to an age going through shit as well, like that whole motto that you just said, like, who gives a shit? Like, what's the worst that can happen? Well, exactly.

Just go for it. And then the more you push yourself and the more you care less, which comes with age and experience, you realise like, oh, not going to die from introducing myself to someone or having a conversation or putting myself forward. Like, that wasn't so bad.

Yeah. And actually enjoyed it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So tell us a little bit more about your journey so far. You're obviously a mum. You've got a son who's the same age as your youngest. Yep. So what was that journey like? How did you, how did motherhood come about for you? Well, he wasn't planned. I'm not going to lie about that one. He wasn't planned. I was quite young. So I'm nearly 31 now and I fell pregnant with my son.

at 20 and I had him at 21. I think motherhood did change me as a person. It did. It helped me kind of grow as a person as well. And he came into my life when I needed him the most. Unfortunately, obviously I'm unlucky for me. I am a single mum. So my son's biological dad isn't in the picture.

He hasn't been in the picture since my son was about one years old. Okay. So I have had to do a lot on my own. whereas obviously other mums have had the help of the fathers and they've done it together, whereas I've always been left to do it on my own. But I am thankful that I had him because like I said, he did help me through a lot in life

and he helped me become the person that I am today because he's my biggest motivation. I would say that if it wasn't for him, I probably wouldn't have done as well in life as what I am doing now because I've pushed myself to do better, to be the better role model that he needs as well as myself really.

So. It's a strange thing, isn't it, children? It's like, especially becoming a parent, you can feel so scared and ask yourself questions, but actually, they actually give you this confidence within you to kind of feel that you can do anything. It's the hardest.

Even when you feel like you can't, then, without knowing it, you give you that extra kick up the bum going, I am going to do it, for it. Yeah. I think there's nothing more powerful and stronger on this planet than a mum. Yeah. Because there is that next level of power that you get where you can't give up.

No. Can't quit. Whereas before you had kids, you might get to a point where you're like, I'll throw in the towel. This is too much. This is too hard. Exactly. Exactly.

Or I just accept where I'm at. You know, that dream sounds lovely, but it's not realistic. And, you know, you stick with what you've got. But, yeah, having kids, it is the hardest, but the best. I would say it's probably the most rewarding as well. Yeah. I would say it's the most rewarding thing as well to see them grow from obviously being such a tiny baby

to obviously how old he is now. Yeah. And it has been a journey. It's not been easy, but it's probably one of the best journeys that I've actually been through, I could say. Yeah. It's been a bumpy ride,

but I'm still here. My son's still here. He's thriving. So it's not. No, exactly. Exactly. Got a long way to go. No, it's true.

I remember even, like talking back about like being quite shy, like around people that I know, you know, I am an open book and I, you know, I probably overshare sometimes. But with new people, especially when I was younger, I was definitely not as confident.

And I think the career that I've had in sales and all the skills that I've learned, you know, has helped me. But I remember even taking Kays into like clubs or to like nursery and school and like, hi, how are you on Kays as well? You know, I would never have spoke to a strange. or introduce myself years ago.

But I knew like, oh, I know that my son likes your son, so I'm going to introduce myself. Yeah, like make friends. And like, it pushed me to do that. And then, you know, we ended up becoming like mum friends and stuff. Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't have done that before. So like, because I knew it was best for him.

Yeah. You know, otherwise I'd be like, see you later. Drop you off school, not talk to anyone. Yeah. I made myself because I knew it was best for him. So they do give you that extra, that extra push. No, of course, 100%. Yeah.

What would you say has been one of the most challenging things? What, challenging things in life or motherhood? Motherhood. Probably the most challenging is obviously having to provide for him solely by myself. Financially. I would say financially probably would have been the hardest. But my mum could back me on this one. I've always been in work.

So I've never not had a job. And I've always worked as hard as I can to make sure that I could provide for my child. Yeah. Again, I think it's just something that mums do. Like, I know a lot of single moms. My mom was a single mom with three kids at one point. And yeah, there's just like, again, a next level of hustle that comes with it. I can't rely in some cases on the dad. And my kids not going to suffer for it.

I'm still going to make it happen. Either sit here and pity and moan about it and we actually get nothing or this is on me. Yeah. And at the same time, I think then it's a very, I'll say this all the time, monkey seen. monkey do. They never see what, you know what I mean? Yeah. What you've done.

And sometimes in the moment, they don't realize. No. Yeah, the skills and lessons. You know, like when you hear, you know, different stories when you're older and you think, I never felt like that was my childhood. I didn't know the struggles that mom went through, for example. Yeah. Because she never made me feel that like that.

No. You know what I mean? See, my mum and dad never did either. They always gave me and my brother everything we needed. So I felt like, you know, I'm going to do it. the same for my son because I never went without and my son will never go about whether you know he's got two parents or one parent he's still never going to go without and to this day he still doesn't he doesn't know you know the struggles in life because I've never allowed

him to see that because I've always worked hard to get to you know a good place and where I am now I watched a podcast yesterday with Perry from Little Mix okay um when she was on janey's podcast great company I think it was cool and um she said like she she she had had a single mum with two kids. The dad left for, you know, moved on with somebody else. I think he was still in her life, but she was like, you know, I don't think I'd be able to handle as well as, you know, my mum did. And she said, everything we had was secondhand, but I still had it.

You still had it, exactly. I would never have thought, like, we didn't have things or like, I didn't, like, say, see the struggle. So, yeah, moms are just, like, say, something else. And how, how were you able to, I mean, part of it. in ways with your child's father. Were you in a place where you were happy with that decision? Was it difficult?

Because obviously one thing is financially providing for your kid, but also showing up when you're not feeling your best and you're going through it emotionally. Yeah. So it was difficult to leave. Like I'm not going to beat around before that one. I went through a lot of trauma with my son's dad as well. I suffered quite a lot of narcissistic abuse.

Okay. So it was difficult at the time because it's like you get like a trauma bond to that person. But I was fortunate enough to have my mum and dad always by my side from the moment I fell pregnant until even now. So I've always had that support. So obviously leaving him was, it was hard at first, but it was a lot easier because I knew that I had my mum and dad. So I ended up leaving the household with him and I went back to my mum and dads and I took my son with me. because in that moment I thought that was the best decision for my son. Especially considering, like I said,

I suffered quite a lot of narcissistic abuse. It wasn't exactly a good relationship. And I didn't want my son to grow up around that to think that was normal. Yeah. Because it's not normal. And I didn't want him to think that behaviour is okay either. So obviously he was a baby at the time. But that was all that was in my head that I need to leave

because it's not just me anymore, it's my child. So, yeah, it was hard at first. But I managed to finally pull myself together and put my child first and leave. I'm a big advocate for leaving a situation if it's not right. I know you hear a lot. I think it's less so now, but definitely more maybe our parents' generation of, oh, we're stuck together for the kids. Yeah.

Don't. Like my parents broke up my biological dad when I was six. And that was such the right decision. Because like you say, it's not a good environment. if you're not compatible. If there is, you know, bad traits and experiences that the parents are going through, it really can negatively affect the kids much more staying together than actually being a part. Yeah.

And people fear so much about, oh, what are the kids going to go through if we break up? And it's that actually sometimes that's so much healthier. It's so much better. Well, it's like I didn't want my son to grow up and think that the behaviour of his dad was how you should treat people. Yeah. And I really didn't want that. So that was the biggest thing for me. I didn't want Leo to grow up around that environment

and think that's how you treat a woman. Well, that's how you treat anyone, to be honest, not whether it's a woman, whether it's a kid, whether it's a man. You don't treat anybody that way. So that is one of the biggest reasons as to why I did say, you know, enough's enough now I need to get out of here. Yeah. And good for you for doing it.

Yeah, it takes a little strength. Again, thinking they're doing the right thing, but I don't know if it was you or someone else who said that when their parents did finally split, it was like a bit of a relief. Like, actually the house is calmer now. Yeah. You know, as much as you were together,

it was so heightened and tense. And whether it was shouting or not sharing, whatever was going on. And as much as you're split and okay, it's not nice, the houses are nice a place to be in. Yeah. You know, so... Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, 100%. And because Leo was so young, he doesn't know any different. Obviously, it is a shame because I always grew up, both of my parents being together and they were together right till the very end until my dad passed.

But, you know, I always sit and think to myself, Leo has never been without, he's always had that male role model in his life, whether it was my dad or even my brother. My brother was fantastic with my son. And he did help me a lot in being that perfect male role model, which I am really grateful for

because if it wasn't for my brother at the time, I think it would have been a lot harder for me. Yeah. And especially even with my parents as well. If my parents weren't there, I think I would have found it a lot harder to leave if I didn't have that family support around me. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't know if you know, I think her named Anna Wilkinson or Williamson. She's the coach on celebs go dating. I do know her, yeah. Yeah. So she's come out and she's got, you know, a lovely marriage, loads of kids now. She does a podcast, right? Yeah, with Louisa Zissman.

Louise Zana or something. Luana. Yeah, so she actually, I listened to a podcast of her recently where she opened up a lot about her past life and she... Would they live your app word? Yeah. I watched it too. Oh my God, I am shocked that she watched a podcast. I need to watch it. I don't want anything.

That's why. I know this one. Well, I'll let you know a little bit about it. But definitely, definitely worth a watch for the audience. But just to feel you in a little bit, she actually done like 10 years in child entertainment on TV. and presenting and everything like that. And then she got out of a really difficult relationship. That's, you know, sparked her passion to life coaching and relationships.

And that's how she ended up going into TV with, you know, being a life coach. And that's how she ended up on celebs go dating. But she said that she grew up with her mum and dad together. They're still happily married now. Loads of brothers around. So she's got a bit of banter and she knows how to take the piss out of herself. Yeah, of course. And, you know, quite a bold, strong, I know what I want and I went for it.

All the traits you would think of, you know, a strong, confident woman. And she found herself in her early 20s in a long-term abusive relationship, a lot of, you know, psychological abuse and narcissistic behavior like you mentioned. And she said, I just hadn't seen it, didn't know what the flags were, didn't know how to get out of it. And you would never expect that typical type of woman with the strengths that she, she had to not realize to get to a place where she was having a breakdown and then that you know forced the end of the relationship you're kind of describing me in a way because i never really knew about anything to do with like being a narcissist or well it's only really spoke about

like now it is now but back obviously a couple of years ago obviously when i was still with him i never really saw it and i thought that it was kind of okay and that's kind of what a relationship was like because i would say he was probably one of my most serious relationships. So I kind of thought, oh, well, maybe that's how a relationship is. Yeah. But then after when people kept telling me, you know, Holly, this behaviour isn't okay. Like, he was cheating on me all of the time.

When I was pregnant, I would get messages on social media from girls that he would go and try and obviously take them home with him or go to their house, why I was heavily pregnant. Oh. And I never really saw it until I think it was actually my dad that said, Holly, you need to wake the fuck up now. Excuse my language, guys. But that is literally what... Sometimes you need that.

I needed that because anytime I needed any kind of advice, I would always go to my dad because he would always know what to say and he would always make me feel better about the situation. And I know that even though sometimes some things are quite hard to hear, you still need to listen to them. And I think that's a lot where people go wrong nowadays is that people are too frightened to tell somebody the truth because they're too scared to, you know, have the reaction of that person.

Whereas me being me, I don't care what you have to say to me if it's hard to hear or not. I would rather you tell me. Yeah. Some of the best conversations are the hard conversations and we can't avoid them because that's what helps ultimately. Well, exactly. And it's like that person might see something that I can't see.

And in this case, my dad did see it. Yeah. And he was telling me, you know, Holly, this isn't okay. Like I don't want you to be treated like this. You're my daughter. Yeah. And this isn't okay. Like the way he's treating you, the way he's talking to you, it's not on.

So for the audience, if there may be questioning a relationship like that, or maybe they're oblivious to it and they're maybe starting to get friends and family and close people tell them. What, looking back now, are maybe some of the earlier signs that you just were oblivious to that now would be red flags? Probably I would say more so the manipulation Obviously turning everything around on you Making everyone believe that it's your fault And making you believe it's your fault as well I would say that's probably a major red flag

I think that that's what Anna actually mentioned Is that you They're so good at making you doubt What actually happened that you doubt yourself And gaslighting I would say is a very big thing as well That they gaslight you So they treat you a certain way

but then they kind of try and gaslight you into saying, well, you shouldn't feel like that or why do you feel like that for? And it makes you then feel quite stupid and quite, okay, why do I feel like that? Maybe I did overreacted. Maybe I shouldn't feel like that. And it was hard and it happened a lot to me. I always to question everything all of the time. At one point, I didn't actually know what was actually reality and what wasn't

because I was so confused because there was a lot of narcissistic abuse going on and a lot of gaslighting that I just didn't. didn't realize. Yeah. No, I think that is a valid point and I think that is what a lot of people feel like in those situations and that's what keeps them to stay because they lose the whole point of it is they take away your sense of trust in yourself. Yeah.

And that's what keeps people to stay in those situations. Yeah. So, no, it's glad. It's good that you were still very close with your family to. Yeah. That's the second step is they isolate you. That's what I mean. They isolate you, yeah.

Your dad probably said it at the right time too. You know what I mean? Before you probably didn't listen. No, I didn't. I didn't listen. And it was him to actually get that through to you because maybe another person might not. You know what I mean?

Because at the point, I was madly in love for him. But I felt hard for him. So I thought, he wouldn't do that. He couldn't do that to me. Well, they don't start off like that. No, they start off, fantastic. Oh yeah, 100%. When we first got together, everything was great.

like we got on so well. And then obviously quite early into us being together, I felt pregnant, which literally was a shock for me. And it was a shock for him as well. Even though he's three years older than me, he obviously was still quite immature in that sense. So I will be honest, at that time, I was young.

I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know whether I wanted to have an abortion. I didn't know whether I wanted to keep him. Obviously, I'm happy that I didn't go with the abortion. And me being me, I probably wouldn't have gone through it anyway. Still, these are all the things that you have to be. Because obviously, my mind, I would be like, oh, what they look like?

What kind of eyes would they have? So that would really traumatise me. So I wouldn't go through it anyway. But at that moment, I was so young that I didn't know what to do. And I hid it from my family because I never shown my bump until I was about six, seven months pregnant. You wouldn't have known I was pregnant. So I hid it from my parents. for a very long time.

Really? Until then. Because I couldn't tell him. I was so disappointed in myself that I couldn't tell them. And I told my mum, and my mum cried at first, but then she was really happy, but I could not bring myself to tell my dad. So at what point did your dad find out? My mum told me.

How far along were you? I would say I was probably about four or five months pregnant. Yeah. I couldn't do it. I could not do it because I was so disappointed in myself because obviously he was my first serious relationship. It's never happened to me before. So everything was quite new.

Yeah. And I was so disappointed in myself. Because we were only together, I think, for about seven months before I fell pregnant with him. So for me, I was like, oh my God, what have I done? Yeah. There's a lot of shame that comes around on planned pregnancy. It is. And I think a lot of shame also comes with being young as well.

Yeah. Because a lot of people say, oh, you shouldn't have kids young, what you do it? But now I've obviously been through it. Obviously, I wasn't young young, but I was 20 years old. when I fell pregnant. I think I can kind of see, but I don't think it actually matters like how old you are.

I think it's how mature you are at the time and how you can. Not even at the time, but yeah, so what you do with it. So, you know, a 16-year-old could have a baby. Hmm. Didn't want to mention anything but, you know, I love you. But, you know, a 16-year-old could be a better mom

than what a 35-year-old could be. So I don't know why there's so much like stigma about, you know, you shouldn't have babies young. Like, okay, you know, people do say, okay, you're still a child or whatever. But like I said, some parents are a lot better when they're younger than when they're older. And some people take to it like you did, like I did. I think it's just because the younger you are, the harder it is to provide. Usually financially is the hardest thing for a younger person to provide.

Because yes, you can emotionally love your child, show up for your child, care for your child. It's just usually the financial issue when you're young. younger. Yeah. But at the same time, like, you grow up and, yeah, sometimes, like you say, you can be better than some of the moms that have kids when they're older. Well, it's like a lot of people used to say to me, you know, he's going to ruin your life, what you're doing, you're still young.

You hear that a lot with... But I 100% say, and I stick to this, that he made my life, and he made me. Yeah. And I'm grateful. I don't know anyone that turns around and says that they're kids. broke you. Instead of saying they broke you, they actually made me. He made it great. He came into my life when I needed him. And to be honest with you and all the audience, I think that if I didn't have Leo, I probably

would still be with his dad to this day. In not a healthy... Not a healthy relationship going through. Probably half the person that you actually are. Half the person that I am and I would probably be miserable. And maybe not even still realising it. Exactly. And I would still be in that. This whole bubble of, you know, a not great group.

That's not reality. Yeah. You know, like my fantasy is what I should say. So I don't think anyone's prepared for motherhood. No. No matter whether you plan a pregnancy, have an unplanned pregnancy, whether you're 16, whether you're 35. Like, it's hard.

It is. Like you say, it's how mature you are, how you rise to the occasion. And you can be a good mum, regardless of the situation. Yeah. And, yeah, I think a lot of the time there is, oh, kids ruin your life. And actually, I don't think I've seen any. evidence of that at all.

Actually, the contrary. It makes you the person that you are. And it's hard and the younger you are probably the tougher job you have to go through it. Yeah. But the people that you become at the end of it and then the kids that you end up brazen. Exactly. Like my mum was a young mum. She was 18 and she, like you say, my biological dad wasn't the best.

And yeah, like we grew up together and we've got a great relationship just like you do with Mason. Yeah. And, yeah, like, yeah, hats off to all the young mothers. I could say Leo is my life. Yeah. He is my life completely. And I don't think I would actually need. I don't think I would be here without him, to be honest.

For all of what, everything that I've been going through for the past, I would say five, six years. If it wasn't for Leo, I don't think I would honestly be here. Yeah. Or I'd be in a very, very dark place. Yeah. He's helped me through everything and I'm really grateful for having him in my life. Like I say, kids give you that extra power. I do.

He does. They do. I really do. So you mentioned having to work your way up from nothing to where you are now and obviously having to go through that as a single parent as well. Tell us a little bit more about that journey that you've gone through. So obviously I was, like I said, I was young when I had Leo. The first year of his life, I didn't work because I was actually quite poorly after having him.

I had quite a lot of health issues. But once he got to the age where he would be able to stay with my mum, My mum had him and I think the first job I ended up going back into when I had him was probably I used to work in Holland and Barrett. So I used to work in Holland and Barrett alongside a girl called Kirsty. You might know her. She's probably a similar age to you both. I think she lives at Samigar now. I'm not 100% sure.

But she was a very good friend of mine and she got me back into the job. I was nervous because obviously I was quite a while like a whole year without working again. And so I kind of went back into my shell. Losing a bit of confidence as well. Losing. Where's Holly? But I'm really grateful that she did because to this day I still probably said

that was one of my favourite jobs from the get-go because the customer's really nice. Obviously she was a fantastic person to work with and she was my boss at the time. Which helps as well that you have a nice boss like yourself. You was a lovely boss.

But yeah, it does help. So obviously I went from obviously doing that job then COVID hit. So then I ended up not working through COVID because obviously the place ended up shutting down because no one could go there. So I ended up losing that job after a year and a half, I think it was. But I learned a lot from being in there as well.

So I learned a lot of customer service skills. I learn a lot about health and a lot about sport and everything because obviously Holland and Barrett is like a health store. So you learn a lot. And obviously you have to do exams as well when you work in Holland and Barrett. You have to go through a course. I think that's good.

You should. And unfortunately, I never ended up finishing it. And I could have got an A-level qualification for it in like biology and stuff. So I was a bit gutted, but obviously COVID hits so I can finish it. So then I ended up going on to different jobs. And I didn't have particularly very good jobs. They were just jobs that I could have because I needed a job. Until I ended up obviously getting back in contact with you.

And then I ended up working with with you and in the reception and the dentis. and the dentist, which all you guys were fantastic. You made life so much easier going to. I felt well left out when you all worked together there. I was like a right laugh. No, it was. It was funny. One of a message me actually the other day, like a, I don't know what they could.

You know, like a video, it's probably a word for it, but a video basically. When you ring a patient and, you know, to see if they can come earlier, and it will wait around the phone and then they're saying like, yeah, like I miss those days. I was like still my environment, but it's different, you know. I don't work. No, but it was fun because we all had each other's backs. You know, we would all have a nice time. Very professional.

Very professional. But we also, yeah, a fun environment. And we all got along with each other. So it was nice. It was a good environment. Yeah. But then obviously I ended up leaving there. And then I ended up finding a job in like a Hester, Hesteria, which is a Hester.

I think it is in English. Like an accountant. It's more like a solicitab kind of thing, like a bookkeeping kind of. So I ended up obviously going. into that job, which is quite funny. I lasted there for about, I'd say, three, four years, where I learned a hell of a lot. I learned obviously how to do NIEs, get residencies for people here in Spain.

Visas, for example. I dealt with a lot of them, driver license exchanges. So I deal with quite a lot of the immigration side. And I absolutely love the job. But unfortunately, again, my boss, he wasn't particularly very nice. another person that's been on this podcast used to work with me as well and she worked with me with this guy so she can back me on this. Okay.

And he was another person that was very narcissistic. So he would manipulate you into believing that everything was your fault and he was fantastic. So, you know, he would manipulate you into saying, well, you can't get a job anywhere else because this is the best job that you'll ever get. And you felt like you've had to stay. And, you know, he wouldn't have.

you very well. He held a lot of money back from me when it comes to commissions because I ended up going to kind of the real estate aside and I sold three houses and every time it came to pay me the commission, he'd always make an excuse to why I wasn't entitled to get that money. And he would make me believe that that was the truth that I generally didn't deserve it. To the point I couldn't actually really see again because I've been through that abuse. It was kind of like it was normal for me to feel that way, if that makes sense. So again, I went through it again where not with a partner, but with an actual boss, that I couldn't see what was going on until I kind of realized, you know,

this behaviour isn't okay, like the way he treated other members of staff and them leaving, taking him to call. And it kind of got to the point where I was like, you know, this isn't okay. But I still stayed because he made me believe I couldn't find a vet job somewhere else. And you're the sole provider for a child. Exactly, so I couldn't leave. And I don't think you picture it coming from the workplace. Like, say, narcissism is something that is a lot more talked about now.

But in partners, not from your boss or from... Exactly, not in the workplace. Well, we say relationships and we just presume. We just presume it's a relationship. You could have a friend, girlfriend, husband and white or something. You work is a huge part of your life all the day, every day. And it's just as effective and just as damaging to come from a friend. from a manager, a boss, someone who's in charge of your finance.

Yeah, exactly. Was there anything in particular that made you, that was like that moment, you know what I mean? Where I left, where I got out, yes. You know, like you're saying, with that partner situation, it's the case of your dad who kind of alerted you. Maybe you already knew, but obviously maybe he literally opened the window and he looked. He did again. He obviously wasn't here.

But the reason why I left working for that company was because, obviously, when my dad died, he treated me very badly. He wouldn't let me have time off. He kept pestering me, coming into work, when are you coming back, pestered me the day before my dad's funeral. On the day of my dad's funeral,

he kept calling me, forcing me to go to appointments, even though he could have easily took, like, we used to call him the packs, with all the documents in for the client, he could have easily gone and done these appointments, but instead he forced me to go. And because at that time, again,

I needed the money, again, I was a sole provider for my child, I didn't leave. To the point clients were crying with me and saying, I'm so sorry, Holly, that you're here. And I said, look, it's not your fault. Don't feel bad because it's, you know, you've paid for a service and you should get that service. I'm not trying to get sympathy. But in that moment, obviously my head was all over the place. I literally lost my dad and it was his funeral.

And like I said, the day before I got pested on the day of my dad's funeral, I kept getting The day after. I didn't have time to breathe for my dad. To the point, I said enough's enough. Because my mental health went right downhill. And I said, I cannot do this. Because I will go into a deep, dark place, and then who is my son got? Exactly.

Who is my son got? Yeah, okay, he's got my mum or he's got my brother. No, but no one can replace your mom. No one can replace me. Yeah. So I was like, enough enough. And I sent in my recognition because he kept saying, you know, if you end up leaving or I'll fire you and I won't pay you well

because I'll end up making up lies and oh yeah he did it all the time oh my goodness and he was just a really horrible horrible boss to have and I always remember this that he always hide women because obviously with women they're easily manipulated whereas a man is a little bit harder to manipulate and a man would stick up from themselves to a guy with probably like a punch in face or something whereas a woman wouldn't or that was his mentality and that was his mentality

And that was his mentality. He'd never hire men. He'd always hire women because it was easy to bully him. It's, I mean, the cowardness that comes from a man who does that to women. Yeah. Is just disgusting. And there's plenty of blokes out there that are like that. And to go through what you went through in one of the hardest times anyone's ever going to have to go through.

Yeah. It's awful. And it's like, I'll always remember this, that he was that horrible. and he was that jealous of obviously people having partners or having children or wanting to create a family that he actually tried to get all of us to sign a piece of paper to say that we will not get pregnant why we work for him and if we do we get fired.

Is that even legal? No, it's not legal. I don't think it would be. It's not legal. But he would be so full on with it. Shame on him. And he would make us. And I didn't sign it because, okay, I don't particularly.

want more children at this moment in time. But who should have boss been to tell you that? We're not allowed to get pregnant. We're not allowed to take time off for our kids. I remember once Leo ended up having, I am allowed to say his name on here, right? He ended up having like a really high temperature to the point that he started having a fit.

And I had to take him to the hospital because I didn't know what was going on. His temperature went so high that he started to have, like, having fits. And he was waking up. He was like hallucinating. So I was in like the A&E. all night and I mess with him to say

that I couldn't go to work if you don't come to work you're fired oh my goodness see I don't think we really don't realize do you then there are people

in the world like that I don't know I've been out I've had my experiences don't get me wrong yeah you know dick had buses

but also at the time I think I had a conversation in the day I still put it down to the fact that it was definitely something changed mentally

because it wasn't always like that for me whereas for you I feel like it's always been like it was like you just didn't realize so much at the beginning. No, exactly. You did it do you.

Yeah, but it's like he literally manipulated the whole situation is to make us think that, okay, this is okay, until one member of staff came in and was like, you know, enough's enough. And she actually did tell him, I won't say anyone's name, but she did tell him that I'm pregnant. And oh my God, the abuse that she got, the reaction that she got was horrendous. and disgusting. To the point, you know, she ended up getting really upset about it

and she got a lawyer involved and took him to talk. This really boils my blood, like hearing what you had to go through. And this man only exists because someone gave birth to him. Yeah. Like, and these people are also parents. Yeah. He's a parent as well. He's got two kids.

He's got two sons that have nothing to do with him. And I can understand as, a business owner's side, it's tough. I can understand that if you've got a full team of women, young women, who could potentially be entitled to maternity leave or child appointments or sick days for child or... I can understand that thought process of, well, what if we get pregnant at the same time?

I've got no stuff. I can understand that thought process. Yeah. But the way you direct that, oh, my God. The way he went about it was absolutely unshumane in a way. It is unhumane. It really is. And, you know, I've had various experience with bosses.

And with my first son, I felt like a lot of emotional blackmailed to come back off maternity leave in the nicest way, not in an awful way that you were used to feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But still was emotionally blackmailed and guilt tricked into coming back. Yeah. And then, like I say, my boss now and having my second child was a completely different experience.

And I feel like you work harder as an employee, the nicer your boss is to you. Yes, exactly. And any time I've ever messaged my boss, like, lost a family member, so sorry, I'm just not in a place to come to work today. Take as long as you need. Yeah, but exactly. Like, you work harder when you've got a nice boss. And I come back and I, you know, really not feeling well today.

I'm like really like throwing up. I've got a virus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so sorry you feel like that. Let me know, like, you're okay. When you're okay and coming back, exactly. That makes me want to come up. back faster and work harder for someone.

Of course, of course. So, yeah, I think it's just a really old school, shitty mentality to have and actually not a man. Yeah, no, he wasn't. And, you know, another good friend of mine, I still have contact with her, but she obviously worked for him. She went back to work for him, but I'll get to that. She was working with me and she actually had, say, out of born, pregnant. But she sadly lost the babies. she told him about it and he cancelled her contract and fired her.

When she went through a hell of a lot even with the hospital she had to have operations and things and she was going for a very hard time and he just thought it was okay to just make her feel even worse and make her lose a job as well as her children. Yeah, but the people that don't deserve good...

So it was kind of a... You know, a build-up to why I left because I thought, you know, I've seen how he's treated everybody else he wasn't particularly very nice to me and to the point where it was just me and him actually working in the business because everybody had left

and we couldn't find any members of staff because he was just horrible to everybody and nobody would put up with him to the point where I felt sorry for him quite a lot because that is just the type of person that I am even though I shouldn't have because he was a horrible person I still felt sorry for him because his kids have nothing to do with him

he's divorced he's got no friends no partner. Well, he's found himself in a situation that he's created himself. I mean, it just goes to show your character for feeling sorry for him. And I did feel sorry for him to the point I felt like, you know, enough's enough now.

I can't do this again. Like, I'm not going through this. And especially considering that I lost, it's not like a friend or an auntie or grandma, it was my dad. And the way he treated me was so disgusting to the point I was like, you know, enough's enough now.

I cannot no longer work for you. Yeah. So obviously, you know, being made to feel like, oh my God, this is the only job that I'm going to have. I've got to provide for my son. Obviously, you pushed and went through that. So what would your advice be for women that are feeling a little bit stuck, maybe not treated the best in a workplace? How did you find the courage to actually get yourself out that situation? I would probably say that, again, I was thinking about my child. Obviously, not everybody in the same situation has children, but I was thinking again about my child because I thought he doesn't deserve to have his mum stressed out, upset all the time. So I think he kind of motivated me to leave and to do better

because obviously, again, like I said, I don't want my son to be around that kind of environment because stress is a very big killer as well. It makes you very poorly. And it makes you, you know, be somebody that you're not. And I didn't want to be agitated all the time. And coming home and him saying something, then me snap at him or something like that.

So I think he was probably what encouraged me to leave because I wanted the best for him. I wanted the best for him as a mum. I wanted to be the best version of myself I could be. So I would probably say that's probably what gave me courage to actually finally say enough enough now. Well, it's like we say to our kids, Stick up for yourselves.

Like someone treats you like that. You can't put up with that. But yet, like as an adult, obviously there's so many other things that we have to consider in that. It's not like, I won't be a friend anymore. No, of course. You know, the biggest teacher for children isn't what you tell them. It's what they see you do. So for you to take action and say, I'm not putting up with this anymore and find a better situation for yourself.

That's a bigger learning. Did you, when you made the decision, was it quite like this? in terms of like, did you think, right, I need to find another job first before I leave this job? Or did you just think, because you was literally just in that moment, like, I'm going to write my, I'm going to write my letter of resignation, and I'll deal with everything else after. No, so it wasn't like a spontaneous decision.

I was thinking about it for a while, but I think what was icing on the cake? It was obviously me losing my dad's hell bad he treated me. Yeah, yeah. So I thought, you know what, with the experience that I've got from obviously from the beginning until now I'll see what job I can find because somebody would want me.

So I put, you know, I built up some valuable skills. Yeah, and obviously I put it out on social media and the response that I got was incredible. I probably had about 10 different companies offered me a job. Perfect. And I, obviously I'm working for a soage company now

and they are absolutely fantastic. I cannot fall any of my bosses. I've got two bosses. One's called Mickey and one's called Jenny and they are both, absolutely fantastic. They are funny, they are lovely, they treat me so good. Which makes you work

better. I can't feel. I can't feel. They are so lovely to me and to everybody and even the people that I work with. They're fantastic. And I'm so glad that I pushed myself and didn't listen to what he said to me because I wouldn't be where I am now.

I'm a lot happier. I'm not stressed anymore. You know, anything that I need can just ask my boss instantly. Yep, they go. Have it. Fine. Whereas with the other boss that I had, you couldn't ask him anything. You'd feel bad. Like, for example, the boss that I have now,

never have to ask him for wages, never have to ask him for money. That's not. Whereas with my other boss, you'd have to always constantly go and ask him for money, why are you not paying me? Or he would decide to pay you under your pay slip, what the obviously amount was,

and then he'd try and justify his to why he's paid you less. Whereas this boss I've got now, he's fantastic and he's just a laugh and it's nice to actually finally have a nice boss. No disrespect to you Sean. Oh no, no, it's fine. I wasn't under that category. No, you wasn't. You was a good boss and you was there for me a lot.

It does. It makes a difference. You're right. It does make it. I think any environment, if you're in a good environment, it makes you feel better whether that's in work, in friendships, in home, you know what I mean? And it's really hard to see that there is another situation when you're in it, whether it's because you're not happy.

with your boss, whether you just want a different career. Like, the unknown is so scary. But like you say, you sometimes just have to, especially when you're not happy, just be brave enough to put yourself out there. Exactly. I was just about to say, don't ever hold back. Don't think, okay, what if?

Just do it. Just do it. Because you never know. You might find something better. You might not. And if you won't. You can move on again. Exactly, you can do it again. But at least you're not stuck in that horrible,

shitty environment with people that don't treat you right. Because I always say, and I always teach my son as well, like, no matter what you always be kind. Because you never know what that person's going through. So you might think, oh, well, she looks shit today. But she might think she looks fantastic. Or he might think he looks fantastic. She's been in the A&E all night. Exactly.

Do you know what I mean? You never know. So I always tell people to just be kind. And especially to my son, always be kind. Never judge anybody on how they look or what they wear. As long as they're a nice person, that's all that matters. It's a no talent skill. You don't need talent to be kind to be a nice person

And it goes such a long way People don't remember Like the information, the skills, the certifications that you have They remember how you make them feel And that is so much more powerful And that will take you so much further in life Than any, you know, skill on a resume And that on that podcast

One thing I've ever watched my life probably Didn't she say something about being kind of people on my way up Because of coming back down? Yeah Don't listen, look at that. Gosh, it's not going to be quite a lot. That's very true. It's very true.

And obviously, going back to when I was saying about how obviously when I was younger, I was quite shy, I think because I'm so outgoing now, I've shown my son to be quite outgoing. And he is a very outgoing person. He's very popular when it comes to people in school. And even outside of school, everybody loves my son because it's the person that he is. And I do believe that he has seen that from me because that is how I am.

Yeah. He's a boy's boy. but he's still going chat and play and have fun with the girls. Oh yeah, but he's very close with your daughter. That's what I mean, that's what I'm saying. That difference in he's a very boy's boy. Yeah.

Rough and tumble, football, whatever you want to do. No, of course. But then if, let's say Lexi's, let's just Lexi walk past, or at the same time she was still going to tag her because we're playing tack, you know what I mean? Yeah. He doesn't care.

He doesn't care. He doesn't see that difference in children. He likes everybody no matter whether you're black, whether you're white, whether you're Spanish, Russian, German. Yeah. He will like. you just for who you are. And it should be.

And, you know, during the strike, obviously, these kids had stripes at school. When he wasn't at school for like a week and he went back, he got surrounded at the gates. Everyone was like, Leo, Leo. I was so happy to see you. And it was really nice to see you because I thought, you know what, that is because of me.

I'm not being big-headed. But, you know, he is the way he is because of me. And I am the only one that can take credit for that. And I am quite proud of myself because he is a lovely boy. And I'm not being biased. But he is a lovely boy. Sometimes we should take more pride in what we do. And everyone always says to me, anywhere he goes, your son is fantastic.

He is such a lovely boy. And that means a lot to me. Yeah. It means a lot because, like I said, I've done it on my own. Yeah. And it was difficult. But I'm really glad that people do see that I have tried my hardest with him. Yeah.

And I still do to this day. I still carry on being the best version of myself and making sure he's the best version of himself. And I always tell him, you know, don't be afraid to be who you want. are because a lot of kids get shut down. You're too loud. You're too quiet. Like whatever. And I always tell him, you know, be you.

Do you. Just be you. And if people don't like you, that's okay. Not everybody in life gets along with each other. But as long as your kind, that's all I care about. It's funny. We had a conversation with a parent yesterday. And one of the teachers of her eldest had said,

I'm going to ask your mom to come in to speak to other parents about, you know, pairing and stuff because both yourself and your brother are respectful, your polite, da-da-da, and she literally sat there and went, that's it, I've achieved it. I've done it. Because all the grades and all the things they can get in life,

which is obviously what she was dealing with. She was at the school dealing with all these things that we have to got to do. But in actual fact, that lesson or hearing that, hearing that just little comment, but it's actually quite a big comment, you know, it makes you think that's,

Well, like you say, we worry so much about our kids and are we doing the right thing and there's no handbook, we're guessing that makes an effort as we go along. We do our best. So sometimes having that, you know, comment from somebody else that sees them, you know, it is.

I remember once being told, Casey's got really good manners. And I'm thinking, oh, it's so nice. See, manners is a big thing for me. Yeah. If Leo doesn't say please or thank you, which is quite rare, because he always says please and thank you,

I would be really angry. Yeah. It's like you always say please, you always say thank you. be respectful. Yeah. You don't be rude. We are very much like that,

which is a lot worse than I am. And having different friends over from different nationalities plays a big part because there's some nationalities who actually don't say it. And it's not being rude for them, obviously. It's just their culture. Yeah. But even those children in our house, they're basically.

No, but it's true though. So I always say to Leah, when you go to somebody's house, you'd go by their rules. Yeah. You know, you don't just do whatever you're. Please. You always do. So they take something off us and you'd see the,

or go, would you like this? And they're like, yeah. And all our children would just look at us. Yeah, as if, like, yeah. And you look at them and just say, but they don't know what you mean, obviously. No, no. But yeah, it's definitely one of the biggest compliments is, is, you know, that.

And it's hard to feel proud and be like, that, that is because of me. Like, you're absolutely well within your right to say, that is because of me. And, you know, I'm going to pat myself on the back because we don't do that enough. And don't say it. You should be proud of the child that you've raised.

No, I am very proud. And I think another thing that I'm quite proud of is that I took him away from the situation as a baby with his dad because if his dad was involved, I think Leo wouldn't be the nice kid that he was today. Yeah. Well, the closest people have the biggest influences on kids and that can be good and that can be bad.

Yeah, because that was one thing that I was always terrified about was, oh, I'd say he turns out like him. Yeah. And that was for me, no. No, no, no, no. I don't know. So moving on from a not so positive male figure to the best positive male figure that you had. You mentioned your dad, your favorite person in the world. And, you know, you've been through a lot with Parkinson's and unfortunately losing your dad. Can you tell us a little bit more about Parkinson's? I don't know a lot about it. I'm sure some people listening don't. Can you tell us a bit more about his experience?

Yeah. So obviously he got diagnosed, I would say probably about 10 or 11 years. years ago now with Parkinson's disease. So Parkinson's disease doesn't just affect you when it comes to tremors. It affects your actual, it affects your balance. I'm already going. I'm already going once. So it affects your balance. It affects your movement. And it does generally affect your day to day experiences in life. At first, my dad wasn't particularly too bad. He would have you know, some fall sometimes where he couldn't balance properly, so he would fall to the side. But he did always still try and fight through because he was very close to my son. You're going to make me crying.

He was very close to my son. Tissues there for you. No, it's okay. I'm trying not to. I've told myself, I'm not going to cry. Because I like to talk about him and I want to talk about him in a positive way rather than getting upset. And it can help people.

Yeah. And it can also help other people that are possibly going through what I'm going through right now. or, you know, are at the start of it. So, you know, if anybody ever needs to talk to anyone about it, I'm always here. But, yeah, so obviously... I'm sorry, prior to his diagnosis, he's always been a sportsman. He was a PE teacher, no. He was, he was a football coach, he was a goalkeeper.

Yes, he was a goalkeeper, and he was also a semi-professional kickboxer. So he was very into his... Very into school, and he was exact, do you know what? He reminds me a lot of my son. My son is definitely a mini version of my dad because my dad was a fantastic man and everyone that met my dad would say exactly the same all of his past students, you know, colleagues,

everyone said what an amazing man my dad was. And I am... And I am... No, Felix, is it. Well, it was called Mara Thor at the time but it's now called Phoenix. But, you know, I'm very proud to be his daughter. I really am.

I'm really proud. But when he got his diagnosis, I think he actually, he collapsed in class in front of, obviously, the students. He just didn't feel great and he just collapsed to the floor, which obviously then kind of got him to go to the doctors and do all these tests and see what was wrong. And he was only in his, I think, maybe early 50s when he got diagnosed with Parkinson's disease,

so he was pretty young. But he never let it get to him, he never let him beat him. So he would always, you know, still turn up for work. and he would still do things with me and my brother and my son. And he would always still fight through it. But obviously, unfortunately, with Parkinson's disease, it does progress. So over the years, he did get a lot worse until the point he actually was fully disabled towards the end. So he couldn't work anymore.

He couldn't eat properly. He couldn't drink properly. And also he had another disease that goes with Parkinson's disease, which is called supernucle palsy. Which is like, you know, cerebral palsy, which affects, but it's like a different disease that kills off your brain cells. So his brain cells were shutting down one by one. So it's like a slow, painful death, basically. Which obviously was horrible to witness.

But as I've said to you, Charlotte, many of times, and I will say to you now, Billy, that my dad was my world. And no matter what he was going through, I would always be there for him, whether it was in the morning, in the afternoon, at night time. I would always be there because I always wanted him to know that dad I love you I'm still going to be there for you Because didn't you and your mom basically become his carey you didn't have anyone No towards the end we had some care in this assistance but during the most of it it was me and my mum so I was kind of like my mum's backbone I was the one that always helped her and because I'm quite a strong person so everybody always comes and leans on me because they know that I can put up with it yeah if that makes sense so you for my family, I was always the one that was the strongest

and the one that could deal with it the most out of everybody, even though inside it was killing me. Because the man that, you know, my first love, basically, my dad, was basically dying in front of me and there was nothing I could do. Yeah. It's probably got to be the hardest thing with diseases like that. Yeah.

And, you know, with people that have family members, the long-term sufferers of cancer and any other progressive type of illness because you're watching that person change? Yeah. And he did change a hell of a lot. Obviously, like I said, he couldn't walk properly anymore so he was in a wheelchair.

He couldn't do anything for himself anymore. He had to obviously get taken into the shower. We'd have to feed him. We'd have to give him drinks. We'd have to do everything, change him, etc. Because he couldn't do it for himself anymore. And everybody that knows my dad, knows that he was a very proud man and he absolutely hates it.

And it destroyed him all of the time. But I used to smile and say, it's okay, Dad. You know, at one point I think I ended up making him laugh. I said, you used to wipe my ass, so I'm returning to say that. Makes light of the situation. So I made light at the situation. Because, again, I, if anyone knows my dad and knows me and they knew both of us at the same time, they would know that we are very similar.

So, you know, we had the same humour. So I could say that to my dad without getting offended. and we'd laugh and we'd joke about it. And a lot of, like, the fun and the laughter does get removed from them situations because, like, even just being in the same room with someone, like, your face with the seriousness of what's going on. Yeah. So it must be very easy to always focus on that when actually, like, you need to bring that

that lightness back in. You can't be, you know, sad and serious the whole time when you're going through that. I think in front of my dad, I never got upset because I would never want him. him to see me upset because that was one thing that he hated. I can see my lip going. That was one thing that he hated was to see me upset. And he was always there for me no matter what. I'm going to cry.

I don't want to cry. No, I don't want to cry. But he was always there for me, so I felt like I could return the favour. Yeah. And I'd always be strong and happy and laughing. And I always wanted him to feel normal and not like a burden. Yeah. Because a lot of people that, you know, are either disabled or have some sort of illness do feel like they're a burden on their friends and family.

Yeah. And I didn't want. And all their family wants to do is to take care of them. Exactly. And I didn't want him to feel that way. Because he never made me feel that way or anybody. He was happy. He was always happy.

He was always friendly and he'd always be the person to help everyone. Yeah. Like no matter what, he'd give up everything to be there for somebody. Whether it was me, whether it was a colleague, a student, a friend. He would always be there. So I felt like, you know what, I'm going to return the failure. And it's the least you deserve. And it's the least that I could do for you after everything.

Even though, even though it's not easy. I was going to say, it's still not easy though, you know. It wasn't easy. It was very hard. But you wouldn't have had it any other way. No, no. But I'm glad that I did spend the time with my dad because, you know, like I said before, life is too short and you never know when your time is up.

So my biggest advice to everybody is pick up the phone, phone your mum, phone you dad, your nan, whoever it is, and make them know that you are still around because you never know when your time is up and when that person could go and you might have a lot to say to that person. Yeah. So my biggest advice to everybody is to just pick up the phone. Pick up the phone and be there because you never know what could happen. No, that's a really good advice. And we'll oh yeah, I'll call them next week. I'll call them next week. And especially with living in Spain, yeah, do have a lot of family members in the UK. And it is months and months sometimes before, you know, we talk to them and that and we really should make the effort because like you say,

you've lived through that not knowing. Of course. And with his illness, I think he must have had it for about eight or nine years. So it was quite a long time that he had this illness and he was just getting worse and worse and worse. And obviously it wasn't very nice for my son to see it either because obviously he kept asking, well, why can't granddad play football with me? Why can't he come to the swimming pool with me? Yeah.

Why can't you do this with me? and, you know, I tried to explain it to him as best as I could because at the time he was still young as well. So, you know, there's a certain way you can talk to children because, you know, they can't have a conversation how we're having the conversation now because they might not understandfully. Of course.

But, you know, towards the end, he did get really bad. My dad did to the point he couldn't talk anymore. And I think to this day, I think I was the only person that could understand what he wanted because I took time and the effort to listen. whether or not it was because we had a good bond. I was going to say whether I was right or not. I don't know. Because he would always nod.

And he would get happy that I knew what he wanted. And, you know, I used to sit there and I used to like cut his fingernails. We used to have a talk. I used to give him a shave. Like I learned how to shave a man's face because I did it for my dad. Because I'd always say, you know, what, Dad, no, I'll do it for you. Because, you know, I still want you to feel good. Like, you know, you want you to look good.

because sometimes when you look after yourself like with your hair, your nails, whatever, it does make you a little bit about the stress. And I thought, you know, just because you can't do it doesn't mean that I can't do it. And I think I did take a lot of that strain off of my mum as well because like I've mentioned before that I'm quite a strong person when it comes to things like that

so I can deal with a lot more than what other people can. Whereas I would say, for example, my brother, he isn't a very strong person when it comes to things like that. So I took a lot of the burden. from him and also from my mum to make the situation a bit easier for everybody even though it was very hard to me. At the detriment to yourself sometimes putting everyone else.

And I did. I put everyone else before me but I don't regret it because my dad did have a very good life even though it was very short. He died at 63. He did have a good life and he knew at the end that he was loved and he passed away at home where he wanted to pass away

which was very difficult. because I wasn't, I was expecting it but I wasn't expecting it to happen so soon. I will, bear in mind, I might cry in a minute for what I'm about to say. But a few weeks before my dad passed away, I could see that he was really struggling. And we had a conversation about him passing

and letting go. Because I felt like he needed to hear it from me that it's okay to go. Yeah. I've seen and heard people that have gone through that conversation and it's almost like I know you're fighting and fighting for me and for us you don't have to no and I think what got me was he kept saying my son's name that he's fighting for him

I don't want to cry sorry um but we're all cried so don't know about the only one that's not taking a tissue No. But I think that was probably the hardest part of it all was to actually tell him, you can go. Yeah. You can go. Even though you didn't want him to.

No, of course I did it. I would rather him be here, of course. But he was suffering so much towards the end. I was like, I'm going to be selfish if I keep telling you fight. Yeah. And he kept saying my son's name. And I said, Dad, you know, it's okay. He's got me.

He's got mum. He's got Harry, my brother. And he's my twin here. And he's got Alex, which is my partner. And I said, you know, he'll be okay. You don't have to be here anymore. You don't have to worry. I'm a big girl now.

I was 29 at the time. So I said I'm 29 now. I'll be all right. And you've seen you pick yourself up, you know, out of difficult situations. He was probably my biggest supporter. Yeah. My biggest support.

And he made me believe that I was a good person, that I was a good mum. And he made me into the person that I am today. And I'm forever grateful for him in my life. I really am. Even though it was a short amount of time with him. Yeah. I'm glad that I got to spend time with him and he was my dad. Yeah. Because he was a fantastic dad.

fantastic dad, fantastic granddad, fantastic husband, he was just an amazing man. Yeah. But he didn't deserve the illness that he got, but unfortunately it happens and life is very hard and life's shit, but, you know, it happens.

But, yeah, I would probably say that towards the end was probably the hardest, seeing how he deteriorated, sorry for crying. No, you don't apologize. It just gets hard sometimes. but I don't really talk about it a lot, so this is probably the first time I've actually opened down about it. But yeah, I think towards the end of, obviously, my dad's illness,

it was horrible. Like I said, he couldn't talk properly, he couldn't eat, he couldn't swallow. So it was just a really horrible, horrible way to live. And I wouldn't want to live like that. So why would I expect somebody else to live that way? Yeah. So that was probably the hardest conversation I had with him. And I just said that it's okay to let go.

Yeah. And we both cried. But I said it's okay to let go. You know, me and Harry, we're adults now. Leo has me and he has everybody else around him, so he'll be fine. I made a promise that I would be the best mum I can be, which you are. Sorry. And he got to see that.

And he got to see it, yeah, he did. And he was very, very close. I don't want to cry. I'm annoyed at myself crying. But he was very close to Leo. and I'm glad that Leo got to experience that. But what I am sad about is that my brother's child never got to see him and experience life with my dad.

So that's hard. But literally about two weeks after we had that conversation, me and my dad, that's when he let go and he died in his sleep. My mum did ring me and say that he wasn't breathing. So I jumped in the car and I was like Formula One driver. like driving all through the streets. And I just remember shouting, like, do not leave me until I get there, please. But unfortunately, I was too late.

And I saw the ambulance outside my parents' house. And I just remember my brother being there with our close friend with Nathan. And they both just look at me and my brother's lip went. And I was like, no, don't tell them that. And I just remember falling to the floor screaming, like, crying, like, no. Yeah. Like, so I don't think anything prepares you. I was going to say, you know, it's coming, but it doesn't, that.

It doesn't help. It never prepared, I don't you? Nothing prepares you for it. No. Yeah. Nothing prepares for it. Sorry, guys. I'm really sorry to do this.

I'm on Pickup Tuesday. I only get one day and I'll be late. You can imagine? I've never done this on a podcast. I really wanted to sit and chat, but I'm so sorry. Honestly, don't worry. Well done. I'll listen at the end.

Yeah. And it's out. I love you. So, yeah, I think that was probably one of the hardest things was obviously realizing that he's no longer there. Even though really he wasn't because he wasn't himself, it was like a shell of himself,

it was still hard to kind of process that I'm never going to see him again because he was that person. He was like my backbone. Yeah. He was always the one that would give me the advice. He'd always be there for me and he would always push me

into being the best version of myself I could be. Yeah. So obviously when he did pass, way. We obviously had to phone like the coroners to come and collect him and whatever. And I just remember, my mum said to me, you know, he's in his room, he's in his bed because he had a medical bed. I was like, do you want to see him? And at first I was kind of a bit like, I don't know, because it was like an overwhelming amount of sadness and grief, I would say, that just hit me in the face. So people speak that I speak to that would go through something

similar. It's like, do I want that to be my last? Last memory of it? Yeah. Well, exactly. So obviously she said to me, do you want to see him? And at first I said no, but then I was like, yeah, I do actually. So I ended up going in and sitting next to him in the room. And I just stopped crying. And I just remember just looking at him. And he just looked so peaceful. That's comforting? It was comforting, but it was also a relief, I would say as well, because he suffered so much that you could just see that he wasn't suffering anymore. And that's what I wanted

for him. Like obviously, don't get me more, I would never have wanted him to pass away but I wanted him to not be in pain and not suffer anymore because an illness like Parkinson's disease is just cruel because there's nothing you can do at all

and you're literally just watching your loved one slowly pass away. I think a lot of people must be able to relate to that. that feeling and like say that selflessness of like you can go and the relief of knowing that they're not suffering anymore no exactly and that is how i felt that i thought you know he suffered for many years with this with this disease and illness um that towards the end it was kind of a relief that you know he's not suffering anymore um but i think it kind of hit me again when

they actually came to collect him. And I just, I don't remember a lot, because obviously when you go and feel all these emotions, everything's everywhere. But I just remember my brother and my friend, our mutual friend, that was there for us. Because his sister is my best friend, and he is best friends with my brother. But she is in the UK, so she wasn't here. But he was there for us both. And he was there as well helping a lot when it come to manoeuvre in my dad, because obviously

he was an 18 stone bloke that is, you know, I'm quite a short person myself, I'm quite small and my mummies as well. For us too, it was quite hard to actually move him from the bed to his chair or into the living room. So he wasn't just laying in bed all the time because that's not a life to live. No. And obviously we take him out. So I ended up doing a go fund me page as well and I raised quite a lot of money for my dad to get my house equipped for someone with a wheelchair. as disabled person, which I was quite proud of myself as well. Yeah.

That I ended up doing that for my dad and to help my mum as well. So we could get him to go outside, not just being sat inside the house all the time. I guess that's the reality you don't think about. No, you don't. It's actually like the reality of helping someone and caring for someone that's going through that. So it was difficult. It wasn't easy at all. But, you know, I said, you know, come on, Dad.

I don't want you to be inside the house. Like, you know, I want you to be outside because he loved the sunshine. It was him that wanted to bring us here to Spain in the first place. And I can't thank him enough because we've had such a fantastic life here. Yeah.

And he loved sunshine, he loved the fresh air. He loved, like, different scenery. So we would, like, you know, walking from my mum's house all the way down to, like, Punta Prima, and all way around and back up again, pushing him in a wheelchair, which was not easy. Yeah.

But we did it because we wanted to, him to get out and as I was saying about my mutual my brother's mutual friend Nathan until we actually got a hoist it's called to obviously it's like a mechanical yeah kind of like swing I would say that can move someone easily from a bed to a chair um he used to come up with my brother and obviously they're full of great men so they could at least move my dad from one place to the other and I can't fault him really because he really did help and he was a support for not just my brother, but it was a support for me and my mum as well and my dad.

And I'm forever grateful for that because he did. And even to this day, he still is there for my brother. And, you know, you don't really get many good friends like that. And I can say that that since, obviously, my dad has passed away, I've lost quite a few friends from losing somebody and going through grief. And, you know, until you go through grief,

you don't know what that person goes through. And sometimes people can act in different ways or they can react like being snappy. And I will admit I probably was a little bit snappy. But instead of being there for me, people just left me. And I've lost quite a few friendships because they just weren't true friends. That's quite sad. And I think, again, another thing that's hugely relatable,

because in those moments, and I can only kind of link this a little bit to some things that I've gone through. Yeah. In those moments, you don't really want to talk or be around people. No. But you need people to push through the trying to keep people away and so that they can be there for you. Yeah. And yeah, you need those people to step up in those moments.

Yeah. And, you know, push through the toughness or the exterior or what I'm pretending to be. Yeah. So that they can be there for you. Well, exactly. But people weren't, they weren't there for me a lot. I think there was only a hand,

not even a handful of people that were actually there for me towards the end, which was quite disappointing. Yeah. And like I said, I lost a few friendships because of it because they either weren't really bothered of how I was feeling or they just thought, oh, she's just being a bitch. Whereas the reality I wasn't being a bitch, I was really struggling and I was in a very bad place mentally. And instead of being a friend to me, you just left me on my own to suffer.

Yeah. Which was hard, but I can't for a few of my friends to be fair. Like one of my old work colleagues, Vicky, she was there for me quite a lot because she also lost her dad a few years ago so she could relate to obviously the pain that I was going through. Even though she went through a lot of horrible things as well, she was still there for me.

She turned up at my dad's funeral. My friend Hannah, Nathan's sister, she's my best friend and has been best friends of me since we were about 14 years old. She flew all the way over from the UK to be here for my dad's funeral for me, leaving her two small kids behind because her kids are younger than my son.

And, you know, she left her kids behind, got on a flight and came here to make sure I was okay. And that's what a true friend is. Those friends are rare to have and we don't normally be able to count those kind of friends on more than two hands. No. But these situations really do show.

And I'm sure there's friends out there that just don't know what to say and how to act. But sometimes, like you say, you just need to be there. Yeah. And some people shy away from that or like you say, take things more personally where it's like this isn't personal, but I'm just really struggling.

I'm just not in a good place. And it was a shame because obviously, you know, you lose friendships, but then I think I've kind of said to myself, but that friendship wasn't probably as how I imagined it. And what it was, what I thought it was anyway. But there was a handful of people that were obviously there for me. During, obviously, when I worked with Charlotte,

she knew obviously what I was going through with my dad and she was also there for me a lot of the time as well which I appreciate. I appreciate everybody, you know, because it is tough and people have their own lives, they have children, they work. So everyone's not going to be there always but a simple message to somebody can go quite a long way

and to let that person know I am here for you. Yeah. So that's some good advice for those that maybe have close friends going through something and don't know what to say, don't know how to help. No, yeah. Just constantly let that person know, even if it is through a message, even it is through, you know, checking in,

just that you are there as and when that person needs you. That is probably my biggest advice to people is to not shy away. Even if that person is trying to push you away a little bit, don't take it personally, still be there for them. Because deep down they do want you there. They're just going through a hard time. Yeah. And they're finding it hard to let people in because of what they're going through.

Yeah. What is a really happy memory that comes to mind of you and your dad? A happy memory of me and my dad was probably when we used to go to summer school, when he used to be a teacher. And we used to go to like the water parks and things like that. And I can always remember us both being absolute nutcases, going down the most stupid rides. Adrenaline junkies.

Yeah, and literally we go down the ride together, but somebody took a photo of us, and it was hilarious because we have the same mannerism, and we literally stood exactly the same when we were coming out of, like, the pool at the bottom of the slide, and it was just so funny. And, you know, we had good banter. We had laughs all of the time.

You know, when I was younger, he would always be there for us. And I just can't pick one moment, because pretty much every moment was an absolute blessing to have with him. He was just such a laugh and such a nice person to be around and he was the best dad. Yeah. He was the best dad. You know, he was a teacher like Charlotte said, he was a teacher. And even all of his past students would, some of them even turned up at the funeral.

Some of them sent us messages and was saying your dad was like the best teacher we ever had. And he'd always understand and he'd never judge. and he was not like the typical teacher that was horrible. He would be... The cool one. Like one of us. Yeah. And he would never judge anybody.

And that's one of the mottoes that I always live by. Like, don't judge somebody when you don't know them. Yeah. Because, you know, like I said, people act differently, depending on the circumstances. Some might be grief, might be narcissistic abuse or whatever. Yeah. That person's going through something.

So don't judge them just because of how they're acting in that moment. Yeah. And if you do notice a slight change in their behaviour, talk to them about it. Yeah. Don't just leave it because you might catch it at the beginning and it might not progress because if it progresses... You might be able to really help someone.

Exactly. You might be able to help somebody and also you might be able to solve your friendship with them. Because obviously like I said, I lost a few friendships when my dad passed away because they weren't there for me and they, you know, didn't take into account how I was feeling and what I was going through. They just thought I was being a bitch.

when the reality was I wasn't being a bitch I was just emotional all over the place and I just lost the literally the biggest influence in my life and it was difficult but like I said not like my dad always used to say to me never get offended on how other people are because not everybody's the same

because when I was especially when I was younger I used to get really annoyed and upset at how other people used to be and how they used to react to things it really got on my nerves and I'd always come back and say something to my dad and he said, Holly, don't judge anybody. You know, not everybody is the same in life.

Just because you're a certain way doesn't mean everybody else is and you have to understand that. So instead of getting annoyed about it, just let it go. You stay true to you and that's all that matters. If they want to be that way, then that's down to them. As long as you're a kind person

and you stick to what you believe in, don't worry about what anyone else is like. You can only control how you treat someone and you can't control people's reactions. No, exactly. Yeah, that's probably really good advice. No, you know. It's true, though, isn't it, to be honest?

And that's what he used to give me all of the time. Yeah. He always used to tell me that. And I was always getting angry about things, always. To the point, you know, I'd come home, I'd be all fuming and walking around, I look this person in. And he'd go, Holly, don't worry about it.

Just because you're a certain way, doesn't mean everybody else is. And I'm trying to kind of reflect that on my, son as well because he's a lot like me as well which is quite funny um and he gets annoyed over things and like leo just let it go yeah just let it go just because you're a certain way doesn't mean that person is so don't worry about it too much but yeah as i say there's a lot of memories that i can go through with my dad going on holiday um being younger dancing together my dad having a drink getting drunk and singing on karaoke

and making an absolute fool of himself in front of everyone. But, yeah, there's so many memories. And my brother can say the same. Like, we had a fantastic childhood. You know, he always did everything for me and Harry and he worked hard. So we never went without.

And obviously there's two of us. We're twins. So it's not just like having one child. It's hard. But he did everything possible for us. And, you know, when we first came here, we were in Spanish school, in public school. And then when we were about 13, 14,

I think he decided to move us to private school to do our GCSEs and things, where he worked. Yeah. And at first I was a bit angry at him because I thought, oh, you're taking me away from my friends. I was popular in this school. And I was furious, because I was never used to being around English people.

I was always used to be in with, like, I don't know, Spanish people. So I never really had that kind of stuck up image that most people, no disrespect to people that go to private school, but a lot of people think... A private school, well, we were the same. We're better than you, sort of thing. And I hated that.

And I would always get myself into trouble. I remember I tried to get myself expelled about five times because I just hated being in that school around those type of people. Yeah. And I always remember the headmistress at the time. She would say to me, Holly, I know what you're doing

and I am not gonna I see through it And it was It was just funny And obviously him Being my teacher for three years Was a laugh as well I just remember

I used to walk in And he'd go So I walk out again Because he didn't want me to be in there Because he struck his lesson And he didn't want I go bye dad And he would just look at me

And give me the death stare And he's like Do not be naughty Because he was He was quite naughty As a child And obviously I'm a lot like him

So I was quite a naughty as a child. So there ain't much he could say about it. No, and then now my son is a little bit cheeky, so I'm like, oh, I can't really, you know, tell you off because I'll be a hypocrite because I was like that. But, you know, we're not going to tell you that. But no, we had a good life. And, you know, he did push me and my brother to do, you know, the best we could.

And I would say me and my brother both have succeeded in life. Like, you know, my brother's got his own business. He's a mechanic. He's been a mechanic since we were about 17. and we're now nearly 31 so he's had his own business and he's also built it from nothing to where he is now and he's doing really well for himself

and I am proud of him I am I am he's doing a lot better than I am but you know my dad when you're a twin you do get compared a lot of the time I remember in school especially because when we were in Spanish school we were separated so we were never in the same class

but then when we went to private school they put you back in the same class So, you know, we would always get compared Because I admit my brother is a lot more academically bright Than what I am Whereas I'm a lot better at languages and things like that Whereas he was a lot better at like science, maths So my brother was a maths geek

Which is normal We've all got different strengths But with twins, yeah, I suppose We got, well, especially me They were always, why can't you be like your brother? Why can you be like your brother? Because I'm not my brother I'm my own person

So I'm not going to be like him But we did get compared a lot And we're the opposite to each other, like complete opposite to each other. Even though we're twins, we're nothing like. I know a few twins and I don't know any twins that are similar. Most twins are polar opposites.

Yeah. And it's funny, I'm quite close in age with my brother and even just being on holiday together. He's like, I remember growing up being like, I'm not as clever as Billy. Leave me alone. Yeah. Because again, he's completely different skill set to mine.

Like, hey, no better or worse. But you do compare academics to, like, hire. than other skills and actually, like, being creative and, you know, languages, all these other things are just as important. But, yeah, it's hard to not compare siblings. Oh, no, we got compared. Especially when it comes to school. Everyone's like, why can't you be so good like Harry and why can't you do this like your brother?

And it's like, because I'm not my brother. Yeah. Like, my brother was a math genius. I think he actually got the highest math result the school had ever had in his GCC math exam. Wow. Like, he was really clever. Yeah. And I used to just look at maths and be like, I don't know.

I don't expect the same result from me because it's not going to happen. But no, it was good. We had a good childhood and my daddy was fantastic and, you know, may he rest in peace and God bless his soul but, you know, he's missed every day. But I still live, I'm living the life that he wanted because he loves Spain.

You know, people go, oh, but wouldn't you want to move back to the UK? But why? He brought you here. My life is here. We got brought over here 23 years ago. So it's a long time that we've lived here And obviously I've had my son here As you've had your kids here as well

So it's the only life we kind of know I've been here longer than you've lived in England Exactly and in England I don't know anything Like when I went back I was telling you in Charlotte before That when I went back in August It was just foreign to me

It was just What is this? Yeah It's so different to how I remembered it Yeah And Spain's more natural Like I say because naturally You've lived here longer

Yeah We do adapt. We might speak English. Yeah. But there's a lot that's involved in, like, your natural environment when you live in a country and the culture and the language and the, just the traditions and everything. Yeah.

Very different. It is 100%. 100%. But I love Spain. I would never go back to the UK. Never. When I went back in August, I couldn't stand it. I thought, what is this?

I think the only thing I liked about it was supermarkets. I do like a good shop in a supermarket. That was the only thing I liked. But other than that, I hated every moment. Every moment I hated there. Obviously it was nice to see my family because there was a lot of family

that I haven't actually seen for many years, probably since I was a child. So it was nice to see people. But apart from that, I didn't like it. I would never move back there unless I really had to. And I had no choice. Definitely not. Right.

Well, so much we've gone through. Thanks for being just so open and honest. We're going to wrap up with our rapid fire round. So these are just quick, simple, straight to the point of answers, the first thing that it comes to mind. Okay. Who inspires you at the moment? My son. What do you wish more people talk more honestly about?

Mental health. Great one. What do you think people focus too much time on? I would say they focus on too many opinions of other people. They focus on the opinions of what other people would think about them. Mm-hmm. What is something that brings you joy? Again, my son. What does growing together mean to you?

Growing together, I would probably say it means, it would mean quite a lot to me actually. Because growing together, it's like, how can, it's like a unit. Yeah. And it's a unit of different people that can help each other. Yeah. Is what I would say. Yeah, definitely. That's the whole point.

we do the community that we do. Yeah, because there's a lot of people that wouldn't actually open up unless they were on something like this. Like myself, for example, there's a lot of things that I've said here on the podcast today that I probably would never have actually spoke about and it would have been a lot harder to speak about unless I was here.

So that is probably what I would say. What is your superpower? Oh, my superpower. Probably reading people. I'm quite a good people reader. That's a good skill. Good skill. What is something we've not spoke about

that you want people to know about you? Probably just my personality, what I'm like. I would probably say just a bit more about me. A bit more about me and who I am. What do you hope people take away from this conversation? I hope people can take a little bit of comfort because obviously like I said, a lot of people probably wouldn't talk about

the experiences that they've been through. maybe somebody watching might actually have been through what I've been through or going through it at the moment. And maybe they might take comfort in saying, okay, well, things will be okay. But just because something bad has happened doesn't mean that that's the end, that you will still keep going and things will be brighter on the other side. So I've got one guest question that I wanted to finish on. How do you stay so resilient while caring for a loved one that's going through an illness? Love. I would say love.

When you love somebody, nothing else matters. Nothing else matters. And when you have such a strong bond and connection with that person, you would do anything for them no matter what. So you kind of put everything else aside. Love brings you that strength. Yeah. I would 100% say that. Right.

Well, thank you, Holly, for coming on and joining me and Charlotte on the pod. everything that you've been so kind of open and honest about for sure is going to help someone that's listening. It's something that unfortunately we're all probably going to have to go through at some point losing a loved one, going through difficult relationships and having to make changes. And I think a lot of what you've shared is can really help someone make those changes that they need to make and just give comfort and some really good advice that they can apply to their lives and really help. So thank you again for joining us. No, thank you for having me.

It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Take care, guys. See you again soon. Bye.