The Rising’s Growing Together Podcast - Oreo Gate, Bridezilla WhatsApp & The 3 C’s for Difficult Conversations

Episode Date: September 6, 2026

We’re back after a short summer break! Catch-up on birthdays, holidays, kids heading back to school… then we dive into two of the most unhinged group chats we’ve seen.First up: Oreo Gate the school mum WhatsApp that started with “please don’t pack Oreos” and escalated into lunchbox inspections, school involvement and pure chaos (the kids were only five).Then the even wilder bridezilla hen-party group chat: matching tops from Shein, extra costs, no messy dancing, and “please remove your wedding rings so they don’t distract from mine.”From there we get real about a heated work conversation and how hard it is to know what to do next when you still care about the person.We finish with a simple, usable framework that works at work, at home and with the kids:The 3 C’s for Difficult Conversations1. Calm – regulate before you communicate2. Clear – be specific, drop the “always/never”3. Constructive – move toward a solutionTimestamps:00:00 Welcome back & summer catch-up04:24 Kids, clubs & back-to-school06:35 Group chat overload08:25 Oreo Gate (the full story)19:30 Bridezilla hen-party WhatsApp23:56 A real heated work conversation32:47 The 3 C’s framework (Calm • Clear • Constructive)45:51 Final thoughts & outroWe’re nearly back into full routine and we’ve got something exciting coming in early October more details soon.If this episode helped or made you laugh, drop a like and subscribe so you don’t miss the next one.#OreoGate #MumLife #Parenting #GroupChatDrama #DifficultConversations

Hi guys. Hey. Welcome back. Welcome back. It's been a while. Well, it feels like it's been a while. I was just about to say, like, if you don't record for a week or two, it feels like months.

Yeah, it does. And we are in the middle of summer. Well, not in the middle. We're coming towards the end of summer now, aren't we? Yeah. We just had, like, say, loads of birthdays and things happening. It's just not quite worked out recording. Yeah.

So we've had a week, two week break, which is not long, but it feels like ages. It does. It does feel that ages. But we're back. But, yeah, I think we've been quite. good to be consistent over summer. I don't even want to do anything. You had a week off, so you were busy like every day, you know, and then I'm, yeah.

I had two weeks off. You did, yeah. I had two weeks off, yeah. Yeah. I didn't go anywhere, like, away on holiday. No, but you were doing a lot of stuff. We have lots of stuff to do. So that's my plan next week.

That's your holidays next week. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what? It's probably going to be lovely because it's not going to be as busy. You're going to be able to park anywhere you want. It's funny you say that because I only booked it because it's Casey's birth to date first. Yeah.

I've got a bit of holiday to take. So I thought, yeah, I'm feeling like very tired, very like, not overworked, but you know when you just feel like, oh, it could come in handy. Yeah. I've not had time off, I don't think, since June. So it's getting to the point where I'm just feeling like, yeah, I just need to close a laptop, not think about work and have a proper break. So I think I usually do that.

And I thought, oh, well, it ties in nice. It's the week before Casey starts school, a new school. So I'll just do that. And then all August, I'm like, why did I pick the end? Like, oh, I just wish it with now. It was forever away. Yeah.

So I kind of regretted that decision. But now you've said it. Actually, we've had some storms. The weather's probably going to be bearable, not as hot. And yeah, it's hopefully not going to be as busy in places. So, yeah, it's kind of lucky, I guess. Well, without sounding miserable, our areas just get taken over a little bit, you know,

which is fine. It's your holiday and I get that. But, you know, we don't get to enjoy the things in summer as much as we think we are before it starts. You know, like, oh, we're going to do this. And we're going to do that. And it comes to it, you're like, you can't part. There's no space. Yeah.

The quality of going out for dinner is not as good. You know, all of these things. A lot of the places you have to book. Yeah. And it just puts you off a little bit. Yeah. You don't enjoy it. You're not enjoying it.

So, yeah, I think you've chosen a good way to be. Yeah. And we've kind of stayed in that kind of work mode. It really hasn't felt like summer because Liam's still working. I'm still working. and Hayden's still going to nursery. Yeah, you have. So apart from Kaysen being at home in the background doing his own thing.

It's more or less. It's not really felt like summer. I know it's summer and I can see everyone doing loads of fun things. And I'm feeling like, oh, I need to. So, yeah, next week I've got my sister coming over as well. It'll be her birthday, Kaysen's birthday. And then a good couple of days before kind of back to school stuff. Well, I just feel like, well, since the wedding, obviously I had time off for that.

And then all my birthdays have been to summer. Yeah. And then having two weeks off. One thing after the other, isn't it? Yeah. I feel like my house never sleeps. This is just constant with the different ages and things going on. Yeah, because even mine are going to bed pretty much at the same time.

They maybe up an extra half an hour. Hayden, maybe an extra hour, Kaysen, going to bed about 10-ish, which is later for him. But yeah, we're kind of still in that rhythm. Yeah. But at the same time, Kays. and yeah not doing anything just a bit more relaxed with it a bit more relaxed with it but yeah I still feel like I don't feel like I'm in I'm in work mode but then I also feel like we're missing out a bit so yeah yeah I'm kind of craving that routine of both the kids being out the

house well Hayden is out the house but case and actually being at school and having stuff to do so that when he's at home yeah do what you want because you've actually done something today yeah yeah but yeah I just need that kind of break before I feel like I need time to decompress before kind of getting back into thing. I don't feel like I've got the brain capacity to work how I want to work. So I feel like I need this break to come back. Refresh. I just, yeah, well, I feel like I just, just that routine now.

Yeah. We're ready for that. We are definitely ready. You for sure. Don't get me wrong when it comes. I probably moan about it. But yeah, because it's like, because it's such a long time off.

Yeah. That we're all just needing that little bit of. Yeah. Routine, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

So yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Nearly there. But we're nearly back. back to normal, back to clubs, groups, which, yeah, we'll definitely be going about that soon. So Kaysen doesn't want to do anything apart from drama.

Okay. So last year he was doing tech and then drama. But we'd have to like pick him up from school, come home, take him back to school. But yeah, he says he just wants to do drama. And actually I kind of was like, no, you need to do one more. And now I'm thinking about it. It's not interesting. He's changing school.

So he's already going to be at school two and a half hours longer than normal. So I think, look, this year, just chill. He's still only about to be eight. Let him get used to a new school year. Find things that maybe his friends are into because the school he's going to, he does clubs as well, as obviously whatever's outside of school too. So, yeah, I think we'll just do drama, which starts next week.

And, yeah, maybe the year after, I'll push him to do one more thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we said this before at their ages. They're always chopping and changing anyway. Yeah. Kaysen's not the best at wanting to go out as it is. So he's happy with doing one thing. Like you say, just stick with it really.

Yeah, mine will all be back to their full on, full on schedules. You know, when I'm saying, oh, yeah, we're at the end. It's literally in the next few days everything's going to start again, you know. I just remember that I've got to get up tomorrow morning for a football match just already. Tomorrow? Yeah. I really. In my head, everything starts September, but it's not necessarily.

Oh, so, yeah, I thought it would be. I think Payson's drama starts next Saturday, which is actually the Saturday before he starts school on Monday. So that was a week before. I thought he would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was thinking that in my name. As only as I was saying it, I was like, oh, actually, it's tomorrow. Correct.

Like I say, routine size, but it's when you've got multiple kids, multiple sports, that's a lot of effort. It's just, it's not, yeah, so it is. I enjoy it. I enjoy it. When we're not doing it, it's, you miss it. And when you're doing it, all you want to do is not doing it. So it doesn't might be helped. Can't be pleased.

Either way. It's the bleeding group chats that get my nerves. Yeah. So we've had the same kids WhatsApp group chat at Kays and school for since they were in infantile. So that's got to be like five years now. And ours actually quite low maintenance, to be fair. The odd question comes up here and there. Generally not much apart from when it's like school teacher present, which is very easy.

Five euros each all the time. This is what we, or these are the options. Make a vote. Yeah, we'll get this. One or two of the parents saw it all. paid by Bism the only thing that annoys me

is there's a couple of the mums that after like a week of thinking so what's going on there where do I need to put money or what's this now and it's like

read the messages read the messages like we all have to read the messages just read it rather than ask everyone to summarize what we've been talking about for the last week

I do get that but generally quite low maintenance luckily well mine are it's just like this time of the year because obviously things are starting again It's starting up again.

And again, in my head, it's still summer, right? It's not September yet. Obviously, they have to. They have to let people know. But when I'm getting all of them coming through, I just end up ignoring it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you do, you feel like you've just got,

well, I do. I feel like I've got groups coming out of my ears, you know what I mean? Yeah. The amount of just work is enough. And that's just one place. And I don't even... Well, I don't have...

I'm self-employed, actually. I don't have so much group chats. I'm like, what? Yeah, so I've... We use teams at work, which is on my laptop. So if my laptop's closed, I'm not getting messages from work. So I don't have work WhatsApp or anything, which is handy. Yeah.

So I've literally got Kaysen's school one, which obviously is changing school. So that will all be new. So that'll be new dynamics in there. And then his drama one, which again is this month's fees. Make sure you pay it. That's it. That's fair enough. Very simple and easy.

Not too much going on. I've got like the community one, which is on mute. so I only check that as and when to kind of keep up what's going on. And then like our girls won, but there's a couple different groups and friends and stuff. So, yeah. Not too bad. I wanted to be about, well, I sing you the other day,

the Oreo Gate, has anybody seen? That was hilarious. They're group chats, aren't they? It's a group chat. It's a mum group chat at work, sorry, at school, which she's then put into like a song, using this AI app thing. But it's funny because you spotted it.

I hadn't even seen it. It never come across my stuff. And then you sent it to me and I watched all like 12 parts of this thing. It's actually funnier that she's broke it up. If she had put it all into one side, it would have been over. And I just started, I don't really watch stuff like that at all.

And I just started like listening to it because like you say, it's made into like a song. Yeah. Which makes it, if I had to read all their messages, it would have been like annoying. And then so I started. The fact they sing it is hilarious. Yeah.

So then I started watching it. it and then and then it's in a part like you say there's part one part two whatever and i was like literally trying to find this woman to want wanting to know the conversation well i did you sent it to me and i literally watched all 12 parts Liam was like what are you watching and i'm like this thing and i watched it and then she's got another series about a bachelorette party a different group like another WhatsApp group which was i found it that even more hilarious that bride is off her i don't i don't oh i have watched it about the rules of not being invited oh my god So the Oreo gave one was basically, give them the contact.

A mom's group chat and one of the moms had an issue basically with the lunches that they were looking for their children because there's items in their lunchboxes that she didn't allow her daughter to have. Yeah. And she was basically. Oreos, basically. So she was basically asking the parents not to pack Oreos. Yeah. And it just was just. It just went into this massive, massive.

And basically the girl with the aureos, her mom's called Charlotte, and I believe that little girl was actually my daughter's name. Everyone would have thought this was me, literally, because it was like, she was packing the Oreos in the end just to take the butt of the pits. I genuinely would do. She definitely went petty, but like, tushay, like this other mum is absolutely, well, in the wrong. Like, you can decide what you want your kid to eat. That's absolutely fine.

But what you can't do is because your kid isn't. allowed it. You can't dictate other kids in the class what they have. So basically her daughter was feeling left out because she's not allowed Oreos and this other girl had Oreos. So the mum was trying to ban Oreos. And she even went to the school one this. Oh yeah. Like it got way out of hands. Like first of all, she mentioned it in the chat and everybody was basically like, well, your daughter didn't eat the Oreos. It's not our fault if she feels left out. That's life. That's life. I pack my kid what I allow her to eat. If your kid's jealous of that, that's her fault, but your kid didn't eat it. So there's no kind of rules or boundaries that have

been crossed in the other mum's eyes. But then it got into another thing of like, she got the school involved. She wanted the school to ban things in the lunchboxes. But the school basically said, we encourage healthy eating, but you know, we can't control. It's your own responsibility. What, yeah. But then it went further because the moms were asking the kids what were going on. And basically the girl that's not allowed Oreos was basically negotiating and begging for Oreos. She was sly getting the Oreos basically. Yeah.

And negotiating, swapping her lunch for their stuff. Yeah. So even though like she wasn't allowed it, she was desperate for, you know, the Oreos. And was going, she was the one who was going behind the bat and lying to get what she wasn't, that she knew she wasn't allowed. Yeah, exactly. But I think what took it to the next level was the mom went to the school

to drop the kids off. Wanted to talk... This actually made me feel a bit funny. Wanted to talk to the other mum who is the main one whose kid has Oreos. In the end, all the kids had Oreos, but the main one who it started with,

but the mum wasn't there. She dropped the kid off and she went to work. So what that mum decided to do was to go through the other girl's lunch box to check if she had Oreos that day after they'd already spoke about it

in the hopes that there wouldn't be. But she went into this other girl's lunchbox. And then the other mom was like, You've crossed the line. That's far too, like, you can speak to the teacher, but do not put your hands on my kids lunch. Totally agreed. And I think every other mum in the group was basically saying,

you're off your rocker. Yeah. Like, what you're asking for is far too much. And you're taking it too far. And it just kept going in circles, didn't it? It went on. It was like there was double stuffed Oreos. Oh, yeah.

It just, honestly, it is funny. Go and have a look at it because it is funny. Oh, hilarious. It did, it did make me giggle in. that I don't think I've ever had that to be fair. Not to that extent. No. That's it.

Luckily, I haven't had any run-ins with the mums, but I think I would have probably reacted in the exact same way. Yeah, I would have definitely double stuff though if she took to touch my fucking daughter's lunchmark. You're having a laugh. But there are people like this in the world. Well, she, she. Who have to associate with our children people.

Yeah. That's it as well, isn't it? It's not even the kids. It's the mums. So the kids were actually fine and the girls trying to get out. hands on these Oreos and the actual other kids are like oh yeah I'll bring an extra one for you tomorrow like as you would as you would for a friend um so the kids have absolutely no understanding of it they're five years old as well by the way so yeah it's not really anything to do with the kids

but I just don't understand how this mum thinks that she it's not unreasonable for her to ask everybody else to that's my that's my she may it makes me like angry it makes me want to just yeah give a slap and everybody else Everyone else in the chat is like, oh no, we're still talking about this. Again, what's happening now? And everyone kept going, well, there's more. Oh, sorry, everyone. Bloody out.

I thought that was a son. Cinema. Sorry. But it's true. You do get people like this. I can't think of anyone with my children growing up where of, like, that situation where you just think, God, help that child sort of thing. Well, now you said that, it definitely wasn't an Oreo gate,

But I... To where you're saying Oreo. Oreo? We're saying it different. That's what it is, isn't it? You're saying it? I'm like, it's quite American is, you know? Ariel.

She's got it. Okay, so is it Oreo? Say it how you want to say it? Honestly, I was just looking at you thinking... I don't know which way to say it. Ariel. So that Ariel gate. But thinking back now, actually, there was this girl that was in my class and one of my good

friend and her mom was like that. Not in the sense that she like took it too. But like she was very strict of what she would have to eat and she was very healthy. And thinking back, I'm trying to think. I think she thought she had like like a sugar reaction like, oh, she can't handle it. Like she, her mood's very affected by the stuff when she eats it. She goes hyper. Yeah, basically.

Yeah, she gets really hyperactive. She goes on a sugar high. So basically. But her mom and dad was split up and her dad's, I'm pretty sure. I'm trying to think back. Didn't get the memo. We were literally about six or seven. and so I was really hard to remember.

But I'm pretty sure she was like... When you're wrong, a thing clicked as well. Yeah, that her dad didn't have those rules, but her mom had those rules. And I remember her coming to my sleepover, because obviously when we that age, like every birthday was a sleepover. And her mom had packed her a lunchbox

to bring to the sleepover. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's different, isn't it? Yeah. Like, as if to say, like, these are the things you're allowed. Yeah. I can't remember if she had whatever she wanted it.

She just choked it in the bin and at my... I bet my mom probably was like, do what you want. But I can't think. But yeah, no. She, like, yeah, her mom didn't dictate anything, but her mom definitely had on a strict diet. That was an experience of someone, dealing with a friend or a mom like that. So, yeah, I can't.

The only thing I can remember, I think I've said this before, though, is I do remember going to one of my friend's houses and the treat where I used to have a chocolate bar for breakfast. If I would eat, if it was a child, I'd eat it. My mom was like, do you know, eat what you want? As long as you eat, eat. Yeah. Yeah, and we went to my friends and we was going to have a treat. And it was to go and get a sugar cube. A sugar, like, not a, I don't mean like, not a koda cube,

an actual sugar, sugar cube that you'd put in your tea. Oh. I wouldn't put a sugar. I'd just have a bag of sugar, wouldn't you? But, you know, like, cubes that you'd have. I've never ate a sugar cube. Yeah, well, I didn't know what to fucking do with it. Can you imagine me?

I was just like, okay. I was just like, okay. And then I put it in, I was like, do you suck it or do you bite it? And then she was like, do you want another one? I was thinking, really. I'd rather have a pack of crisps or an ice cream or something. Yeah. Sugar cubes.

Where's the actual treat? It was such a weird. That is weird. For me, because I think, okay, I promise I expected something else, which you shouldn't always expect. But I suppose at that age, dessert or your tree. And you assume, don't you, that every household is the same as your own. Yeah.

It is a bit weird when you go to other people's houses and they have like extra rules. Yeah. Well, she seemed quite happy with it. So I'm not going to run on a parade. This is so nice. I don't want another one, no. No, no. But that's the only thing I can remember.

I don't remember anything like, you know, being treated differently or being spoken or having to have different rules. But just that was one thing in a household that I remember being just that little bit different. Yeah, I remember going to a friend's house after school and sleeping over and then having breakfast the next morning. And it's like, oh, do you want? Do you want wheat your books? And I was like, oh, yeah, wheat your bicks. And then she gave it to me cold. And I was like, I looked at my friend like, why have they cold? because I didn't know that you could serve wheat abics like that

because weed always had it hot and all mixed together like a porridge like yeah literally like like ready bread but like wheat of it and I remember like oh no I can't eat that like this is weird but yeah it's just so funny how different

it's how you're what you're used to but things like that them kind of group chats and then kind of parents that's just that's just too much for me I don't know if that would really piss me up like yeah having to do deal with that. And I mean, this was messages and messages and days and weeks by the sounds of it. Just kept on and on. And just round and round in circles as mum just kept bringing it up. And the other

moms were basically like, we're not changing. So she got everyone to actually everyone have Oreos one day. But yeah, no, thank God. I could not deal with people that are that not self-aware, that very narrow-minded. Yeah, the narrow mind. And the expectations that on you that they shouldn't have like do well i'm surprised it didn't kick off as much as it did i thought actually the other moms were quite polite about the situation but i guess they they were probably a bit thrown back as well like how do we deal with this this isn't normal they were reacting in very a jokey way and like even the the woman who posted it like she just kept doing like little one-liners like Oreo gate i can't believe we're speaking about this again kind

thing. The, the mum who it started with was like getting annoyed. But yeah, I think she, I think she like was quite direct, but also like, respectful. But yeah, not rude. And even some of the other mons were like, this cannot be a real conversation. Like, yeah. I would, yeah, that was, that was hilarious. And the Bachelorette one. Oh, my God. I don't think, I think I've watched a little bit of it, but not all of them like I was into that. Oh, no. I was just as into that one because that one was even more unrealistic. Like, yes, you want your daughter to eat healthy and yes, it's sad that a five-year-old feels left out, but there's nothing you can do about it.

Yeah. But this Bachelorette one, obviously, she's in a group chat with all of the bridesmaids and the hen and she just kept coming up with things. Like, like, it was quite a negative bride, wasn't it? From what I remember, I don't think I'd want to go on the hen or go to the wedding. Oh, no. How she actually made it to her wedding with any. one even like turning up for it like was it first of all it started off with um like it was happening in like the hen party in a couple of weeks and she was like oh i've just realized all of the

um matching tops or whatever it was or whatever the theme was um is for machine and like i don't want everyone to to know that all our stuff to machine so i i've got another woman to personalize the things for me so it's going to cost an extra $100 so expecting everybody to just pay an extra $100 because she doesn't want she doesn't want anyone else to know that her stuff's from Sheen. So it's all about other people's opinions and the way it looks. I don't want people to know it's from Sheen so extra $100 from

everyone. And then people were like, what? Are you serious? Then it was make sure that we don't get out of control tonight. I don't want any sloppy drunkenness like you need to remember like we're there to like... I remember thinking it was quite negative. And it's all about my photos and it's

all about how I've planned things and stuff. And then she messaged the next day, like, girls, you totally embarrassed me last night, dancing on tables. And basically, you had too much fun that you didn't look good enough for the photos. And people are you actually saying that we weren't appropriate because we were dancing badly? And basically, like, I've spent so much money and all this aesthetics and you're ruining it. And don't even think about doing any of that behavior at my wedding. I'm actually thinking of banning alcohol now and removing alcohol because you've got. guys embarrass me so much.

This is my day and it has to be the way I've planned it. Then she wanted all the married people to take off their wedding rings for the day of the, for the hen and for the wedding day. I don't want anyone else's rings to distract from mine. What? Yeah. This woman's a psycho. See, I'd lose a friend there.

She could, she's either created a personality becoming a bride. Bridezilla. Because for me, if that was her personality. Yeah. And you got invited. I'm like, now. Yeah. Well, I'm all right.

I'm better off not. Or was this. this person quite average in terms of, you know, whatever. And she's turned into some... That would actually be interesting to know. Yeah. I know some women get very caught up and carried away in it. Yeah, because it sounds like all the friends are just kind of average and wouldn't you

all kind of be the same sort of people? Yeah. Yeah. So we all have that friend in the group that's a little bit more difficult. Yeah. But not up there and we're here. That's like a completely different friend, like personality to actually be friends with. Oh my God.

That makes sense. So if you did know someone like that. No chance. And they invited you, I'd be like, I can't make it. I'm really sorry. Yeah, because you know how hard it's going to be. Yeah, it's going to become an ad. And the girls were like, you cannot be serious.

Oh, okay. So it's got to be a change. Like, I'm not taking my wedding rings off. Like, are you serious? Well, it's actually dealing with things like that, isn't it? Because like, for example, let's just say the mum group chat. You don't choose them people. No.

They, your children choose their people actually. It could be from nursery. could be from very, very young. Yeah. All the clubs in which they're in. So it could go for a very long age thing range. And even in hen groups, there's always like your friends, families of friends. Yeah, yeah.

And then you've got friends that you've obviously, you know, like you say, you've known for years and you've got with and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And then you could get to something like this thing. You think, who is this person? Like, I don't want to be at friend. Or even at work. Like there's times where, you know, you don't. don't pick your colleagues. Sometimes you get on fine, then something happens and then it causes

tension. So, well, you saying that, actually, I have had a thing at work, which I don't actually feels weird speaking about it because it, it like, how to explain it. So we had a bit of me and one of, one of the people at work had a bit of a like, heated debate, if that's what you want to call it. I don't know what you want to call it. But I still don't think I was in the wrong. in what happened, but because I get quite close to people, if I like that person, you know what I mean? Yeah, then my work colleague, but I also see you as a kind of friend. Yeah. And if I was to argue with a friend like that or have this kind of heated debate with a friend like that,

it would affect me because I care. You know what I mean? If it's not, then I don't care. And if you're my friend, you're my best friend. And if you're an enemy, I'm your worst fucking enemy. That's usually my balance of people. They're not really a balance. That's one extreme to your answer.

That's my balance. Yeah. But yeah, so, and it was, it's, when it happened, it's like a thing of, I felt a little bit bad because of what had happened just because of just heated conversation or whatever. Because that's just not me. People would disagree, might disagree with that. But generally it's not.

I would always really actually try to avoid those kind of things now. Yeah. And so I was having a feeling. feeling of feeling bad, but I was like, but I'm, I stick with what I've said and why I've said it and, you know, whatever else. So it was really difficult to kind of like go forward in, okay, what do I do now? Because if I say sorry, then I feel like, admit the guilt. Yeah. Yeah. What I would, what I am sorry for is if I've upset someone when I don't mean to upset someone. Yeah. If I mean to upset you then.

but I actually did mean what I said. I genuinely didn't mean to upset you. Yeah. Not about what I said. Yeah. It's, you know what I mean? It's not. I'm sorry to get that way.

But it's that. I'm sorry to feel the way you feel bad actually. I'm really doing this really bad, but it's like because it's because I do care that we've had this kind of altercation or whatever. Yeah. And in actual fact, part of it's probably not us. It's just the situation of what we was in. Yeah.

But at the same time, I still don't feel, I didn't feel wrong in what I'd, I'd said, but I'd certainly felt bad if I'd upset somebody. Yeah. Because that's what I'd never, in that situation, I didn't want to upset anybody. And then I was like, so how do we, how do we go forward from this now? Because, like, I don't know what the reaction, but to be, the reaction could be that that they want to, like, just be back to normal just as much as me. Or what if I go in there and try and kind of, you know,

make it a bit better or whatever. You also can't avoid it. And then it gets thrown in my face. And then I'm going to... Then it's going to be... Then I'm going to flip the fuck out. Yeah. That's what I'm a bit nervous of.

Because I know that I'm actually quite... I am quite chilled and easygoing and... And kind, okay? But when someone says something about me or directs to me that I'm doing something that I know I'm not, it just has... It gets my back up a little bit because I'm just like... When they take it. Take the intention of the conversation to what it not, what it isn't, then they're all most implying that you're a bad person.

Yeah. And in actual fact, what it started over, it just got a bit heightened for no reason. In actual fact, it was, we was just discussing actually, if anything, each of those roles. Yeah. So I was just asking something. Is this involved in what is that you do? And then, yeah, it just went. Yeah, exactly.

So I was just asking part of the role of what her role is at work, you know, and it kind of got thrown back at me. I felt like it got thrown back at me a little bit, which it might have done. You know what I mean, but this is what I'm saying. It was a really difficult situation because it wasn't a case of like, oh well, whatever. I did feel that. And even now I'm like, I don't really know how to go forward because, yeah, I'm not that person who likes just to carry on and forget it never happened. Just at least let's just acknowledge it a little bit. Yeah, I couldn't, I know people that blow up and then just expect everybody to be over it because they're over it and that I don't work like that. I can't just pretend that none of that happened. Like you say, sometimes I'm willing to bury it and get,

and move on from it. But it needs to be acknowledged to be moved on. But I think, I think workplace conversations like that are the hardest because with a family member or friends, not that it's, right but you say things sometimes you mean it you don't you don't talk to each other for a while one of you reaches out whatever like you seem to just manage it easier because there's no real repercussions with work but in a um that you get when it's a workplace whereas in a workplace if you you can't act the way that you would act with a family or a family member or a friend because HR could get involved you could lose your job you could like say I still have to show up and see see this person speak to them every day. So, yeah, but nobody teaches us how to deal with unreasonable people, heightened emotions.

Like, nobody teaches us how to have those conversations. Yeah. And I've been quite lucky. I've had a few conversations like that at work. Luckily, not where I work now. And it's just with people that are emotionally immature that a lot of times it's because people get defensive. And that's where I think this came from. That's where it goes where it's unnecessary, right?

I think it is because I personally think that's where this came from. It came from a defensive side. Yeah. Which the reaction, I wouldn't have necessarily reacted. Yeah. To that reaction usually. But then I did react to that reaction. So then it was a shock for people from their side too.

Because people haven't seen me like that. Yeah. Because I'm usually, I'm just like, okay, whatever. And carry on. Plus, if you go into a conversation, expecting it to go one way, because I'm only asking you about your role. So I don't even expect it to. to go that way so I'm not even prepared.

If you're going into a conversation knowing you have to bring up something with someone that's going to be difficult, you're kind of a semi-prepared for it. But when you don't expect a conversation to go left, it's like I don't know how to respond and how to react and that's normally goes left because there's someone misinterprets miscommunication. And they're seeing the conversations going a different way. Or they get defensive about something. Yeah, that's how I felt it certainly went.

I felt it went anyway. But yeah, even now, I don't know. I definitely can't really just carry on. Yeah. If that makes sense. I do feel like, I don't know, even just hug it out. Even if you don't want to say anything, we don't have to discuss it. Can we just hug it out exactly that and just carry on?

Yeah. Which is not usually like me. I don't, I don't, shit. If I know I'm, if I know, I'm not going to say feel, If I know I'm not in the wrong, then I don't really care about, then you're not going to, you won't see me again, I don't care, do you know what I mean? But it's when I care. Sometimes it annoys me when I care actually.

Yeah. Yeah, especially because the only reason you've got to that stage of someone is because they've reacted in a way. And it's like, well, if you cared for me like I care for you, you wouldn't react and speak to me the way that you spoke to me. Or was it that we do just feel so, um, more intuanty, with each other, we are quite close and that because of that, you do tend to go to the closest people, don't you? Yeah. You get more hurt. Like you say, if I didn't care for you, then it wouldn't hurt and I wouldn't give a shit. But I still, I still, it can come into everything, not just work. It's only because you just meant your work then. And it's happy to me quite reason. Well, I think work is

the hardest one to deal with because I think difficult conversations in all aspects of life, we need to get better at dealing with and we need to be prepared for, like whether it's with your husband, whether it's with your friends. There's going to be at some point, sometimes when you're going to have to say something that is going to be a difficult conversation with anyone that's close to you, even with your kids. Yeah. You know, how to have the conversation when they stop believing in Santa and things like that. And two fairies and all that.

But no, I think we're not prepared. We don't really have a framework and know how to deal with it. But I've actually done some training with some of the managers at work for this type of thing. And it's really simple. And I think it would be actually quite helpful. It's just the three C. Oh, wow, I love this. I'll just realise we're actually going to learn now.

Yeah, I'm going to give you a little takeaway because I think we all need to be prepared for a difficult conversation. And just by these three little things really does help you have a much better productive conversation. You get what you want out of it, which is the whole point you start the conversation anyway, and then you both get to move on.

So the three Cs. The three Cs. So the first... I was a pub in my area, I think. Is it? For three Cs. Yeah. So the first one is calm.

You need to regulate before you communicate. You can't go into a conversation, heightened, angry, pissed off. It's like even when you send an email or send a text message or a conversation, don't do it in the heat of the moment. You're right. You need to pause whether that takes you 10 minutes, whether it takes you the next day. Age has taught me that too. Yeah.

Just don't reply now, Charlotte. Just wait. Well, it is easier as you get older because you're able to regulate better. Whereas when you're younger, you react. Well, just we hadn't been taught then. Yeah, no. Well, first of all, age, yes, probably more experience more than anything. Because when you react, you don't even react in or you overreact sometimes because I'm reacting to the emotion in the conversation.

But I don't even care that much and I don't even really need to go that far. But you're coming at me. So I'm going back. Yeah. So, yeah, you definitely need to be calm before you go into it. You know, be going to the conversation non-emotional. Like, think of the facts, what's happened, how it has made you feel. can talk about emotion, but don't go in carrying that emotion.

To calm. So, yeah, ask yourself, what am I feeling? Why am I feeling it? Because am I the one being defensive? Am I upset because they've come at me and actually, I don't want to admit that I'm not doing my job to the best of my ability or whatever it may be? And what do I want to come from the conversation? So calm is the first C.

The second C is clear. You need to be clear on what it is that you want to say. So I do this loads and I don't know if it's normal, but rehearsing conversations in your head all the time. I don't do it, but I know Mason does do it. So Mason actually has to, if he's going to go and speak to someone about something, he has to do like a role play of what he's going to say. I'm like, yeah, along them lines.

I'm like, no, no, he has to say it word for word of what he's going to say. Well, yeah, along them lines, then fine, that's fine. But he has to, no, no, like this. I'm like, okay, yeah, like that. Do you have actually liked that? Yeah, no, I think I do it a lot. And for those that don't, in this situation, it probably helps. So if you're the one going to instigate that conversation, then role play it.

Because hearing it out loud for the first time in the moment is not the best thing to do. Whereas if you say, well, I'm going to say this and it's like, oh, actually, oh, that sounds quite aggressive. Like, okay, right, let me reword it. Or maybe I use a word that is stronger than what I actually feel because I haven't practiced. So definitely role playing and practicing that conversation in your head can really help. So it helps you say what it is you're going to say without. you know, when you're talking without thinking,

you sometimes you just go around about the houses and you don't even get the message across. If I practice, I know what it is I'm trying to say. It's a lot more direct. The person's actually going to be able to understand what it is that I'm saying. And you get to be specific to the situation. So bring up the facts of what's happened and be honest.

What normally happens at this stage is people blame. You did that and you and also you always. you always, if people use permanent words, you always do this and you never do that. Like you're actually talking about one scenario, but when you make a permanent fixture to that, that really gets people's backup and that really makes people defensive and emotional. So don't say never and always. Just say, you know, this happened that made me feel like this, not you made me feel that way or you did this. like this is the situation, this was what was said and this is how, this is what I took from it.

So I don't know if your intention was to make me feel that way, but that's how I felt. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's rather than accusing someone. Because it's right. Then a little change of words. Again, I'm going to go, what it reminds me of is Matilda. So do you remember when he said, when a person is bad, a person is taught a lesson. And Matilda saw it as person.

What he was supposed to say is when a child is bad. but he said when a person is bad. So in her head, she went, well, you're a bad person. You've got to have bad consequences of what your actions are doing. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one word.

You're taking it literally. Yeah. And some people do take things personally and some people are more sensitive. So you might say something with... Always doing it. Well, why are you saying it now then? If I've always done it, why are you saying it now? Yeah.

For example. Yeah. When actually you're not, you're just being... Actually, how can you say that I always do that? I did this for you and that for you. And yeah, it makes it about something so much bigger than the isolated incident that you want to talk about because you end up talking about your whole relationship at that point when it's always and never. I just want to talk about this one thing.

So be specific and don't blame. Just say this is what's happened and this is how I felt from it. Because again, it's not about you, you don't want to accuse someone's character if you did that on purpose. It's not sure what the intention was, but this is what I did. And I'd like for you to clarify what your intention was by saying that. And then you get to the point of the thing. And then the third C is be constructive. So move towards a solution. Because again, you end up like the Oreo gate of going round, around, around, around, around. And it's like you're both just saying the same thing again and again

because neither of you are compromising or thinking about the other person or, you know, you're not being clear. None of it's coming to an age. You either see the other person's point of view, change your perspective or you just agree to disagree and move on. Yeah. It's not just about dumping the problem. You actually need to get to the solution of opening the conversation and where are we going from there because otherwise you end up with the same.

So I've got to go to work tomorrow and where are we? I don't know. And then it's that anxiety of like being off with someone and the tension and that, oh, that's horrible. I hate that. Yeah. And the longer it goes, the worse it can get sometimes, can't it? Oh, yeah, definitely. And some people are stubborn. So if it's not sorted in the first date, well, I'm not going to be the one to do it first.

And at the same time, I can't just carry on. Yeah. Not really. You know what I mean? It just wouldn't be right. For me, I don't feel. Yeah. So, you know, you have the clear bit of the, so you've got the calm bit, you've got the clear

bit of getting your message across. Then the constructive bit is like, right, where do we go from here? Why have we started this conversation? Yeah, exactly. That was the problem that I had about what happened and how do you move forward from it. And when you say it clearly and calmly, that person might go, oh my God, that wasn't what I was trying to say. what I was trying to get at was this, like your situation.

Like I wasn't accusing you of doing a shit job. I was just trying to understand what your tasks were and did it involve this? Because if it involved this, then I need to talk to you about that. If not, then, you know, I don't need to talk to you. I need to talk somebody else. So you were just trying to clearly understand someone's role. But it got took the wrong way. So yeah, how can we move forward?

What would be a good way to handle this? do we need to sit down and have a better conversation? Can we squash it? Was it even intentional? Well, actually, yeah, I did have a problem with that and I need to talk to you about that. Or no, they didn't even need to get to that point. In any situation, even if it's with other parents,

if it's with a friend, family, work, anything, you wouldn't want to just kind of carry on. And then there's the risk there of it happening again, isn't it really? Because you haven't really kind of gone over the situation. Unless it was something really fucking stupid and it's not even worth anything, then obviously it wouldn't be anyway. But even then I think you need to say, right, we're both silly, let's forget about it. Exactly.

You need to acknowledge it and move on. But the other people that, like you say, they blow up and stuff and they expect you to get over it or don't actually want to deal with it, then you end up resenting that person and then you end up just like... Separate. Separating, not coming together. So, yeah, I'd say the golden rule is to have that conversation. If something's bothered you, enough that it's bothering you.

If it's like, oh, it's bothered me, but I know it's minor and we'll just get over it. Or I knew she was having a bad day. I can forget about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can give people great. Yeah. But if it's bothering you to the point that you keep thinking about it, then have the conversation. Go into it, not in attack mode, trying to make the other person feel bad and address the problem.

So calm, clear, constructive. Yeah, that's really good. And you can't forget the three Cs, can you? No. No. You know what I mean? That's, that's, that's good. Yeah, it's good.

That's helped me. That's helped me in the workplace, especially with people that I've managed when I've had to have a difficult conversation. Well, yeah, you, yeah, you putting that into workplace, especially with all, you've worked with hundreds of thousands of people. Do you know what I mean? Your workplace is huge. So you've got so many different, you know, scenarios that could happen that using this

would be fucking brilliant for, you know what I mean? but actually just take in a minute you know when you've got into you know you've had this kind of me kind of thing with someone and you you want to know how to deal with it because you feel like you should but you don't know where to start I think that's a real good base just to go right let's just take a step back for a second yeah think about what it is the car that's it exactly you know what I mean and back to it in the clear exactly and then do what let's just do what you wanted to go for with the I think that's really really good like say it's it's That can be put into anything. Yeah, I only learned this so that I could have difficult conversations at work. Right. But this can be used in any scenario. Yeah. With your kids, you've just shouted at one of them because they pissed you off

when they've done something. Right, okay. Take a moment, come back. Right. I'm going to go into this conversation now with this child calmly. I'm going to be clear about what it is that annoyed me or what it was that made me blow up and then constructively give them the lesson so that it doesn't happen again. See, now you're saying it, I would do that.

But I would never have thought about putting that into anything else. So with the kids, I've learned how to parent in that way in difficult conversations, but you've not took that through. But I didn't think of it that I was doing that. But you saying that now, yeah. There was a situation where I'm like, with the kids, we'd separate for a minute, calm ourselves down, have a think about and get clear what I want to talk about,

and then get it out what this deal is. And then constructive the problem. Yeah, so it's funny. Yeah, but I would never have thought about it. You've learned and you've got the experience in parenting. because you've got kids that, you know, kids for a long time and you've learned that. Older age and more experience of that side. Exactly.

But you've been in the... That is a conversational skill. Yeah, yeah. But it's only because as you've just said it, how you've said it, you've just gone through all the seed, you've taught me all through it. But until you've just said it that way... So you're like, oh, that's a new skill for me. No, you do it in parenting, you've not done it in another scenario.

In anywhere else. Any scenario that works. Yeah. Parenting, partner. That makes it real for me actually. Like I can do it. Yeah. I've done it.

Like because sometimes I feel like, no, your work's completely different to my life. Like you're completely different. You know what I mean? Like that side of it. I can't use your tools because what I do is completely different. Yeah. When actually I can. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And you've even said before, well, actually I didn't realize that some of the tools that I've used, I can actually put into doing stuff with the boys. You know what? me. No, exactly. I've done it reverse. Yeah. So I've learned like managerial conversation tools and things like that

that I use in my home life. Yeah. And you've done it the other way around. You've got the experience from the home life that you just didn't realize you could translate into the workplace. I didn't even, I know it sounds stupid. You just think they're completely set thing. A conversation with a child. But no. There's a base.

The foundation of that conversation you use in any scenario. So when you go back to work, I know. You can go in calmly. you can speak clearly and then hopefully you can solve the problem can we show this after though otherwise they're going to do it too well if you both go in like that

then you'll definitely have a good conversation knowing me I'll just walk and I can have a hug but no I do like that and it is as you just said it then it is used but I actually should think about using it in other parts of the life when needed so yeah have you ever used three scenes without even knowing about it

or would you would you actually think about actually this is useful? I'm going to put it into something that would be handy for me. Because clearly it works in the workplace, it works at home. And yeah, it's a generic universal framework. It can be used in any kind of difficult conversation or potential argument. And yeah, three C is very easy to remember. Just don't get them C words mixed up people, all right?

Yes, let's not use the C word that we're all thinking about. But no, hopefully that will help you. It's helped me in the past. And, yeah, a little takeaway for you guys. I like it. I love it. Love it. I love it.

All right. I want another lesson. Right, guys, thanks for joining us for another week of the pod. And, yeah, I guess we'll be back into the routine. So you should see us weekly. You ain't getting rid of us now. And, yeah, we're in the, we're having conversations of the next event. That will be coming early October.

So more information to follow with that. So tune in. And again, thanks for joining us. Make sure you're subscribed. If you haven't subscribed, it really helps. Yeah, thanks for need support. Yeah, it's definitely not unnoted. So keep supporting.

Thanks, guys.