The Royals with Roya and Kate - Are Harry and Meghan building an alternative royal court?

Episode Date: October 14, 2026

Harry and Meghan are back in Britain and this week they’re stepping out together for a series of public appearances that look strikingly like royal engagements.In Nottingham, the Sussexes are returning to causes associated with their working royal years, with royal reporters and photographers once again covering them on the ground. So what exactly are Harry and Meghan trying to build in the UK – and how different is it from the life they walked away from?Roya Nikkhah and Kate Mansey examine whether the couple are creating a new public role for themselves outside the official Royal Family, how Buckingham Palace is responding, and why the increasingly blurred line between charitable work and commercial interests could prove difficult to navigate.They also discuss Harry’s relationship with the King, the continuing rift with Prince William, and whether the Sussexes’ new model of public life could create fresh tensions with the Palace.Watch us on YouTube.Read more: Prince Harry and Meghan ‘know they’re not invited’ to royal Christmas Producer: Natalie KtenaVideo Producer: Eve ChadbournExecutive Producer: Priyanka DeladiaImage: Getty Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals, the podcast where we discussed what happens behind Palace Walls and why it matters. I'm Royne Carr and I'm Kate Mansy. It's been almost two months since Harry and Megan made their unexpected return to live in the UK. And this week, we're going to see them make their first public outing together. They'll be in Nottingham, a city where they carried out their first engagement after announcing their marriage. And they'll be supporting charities in public appearances that look at. look, well, a lot like engagements of working royals. Which raises questions.

Harry and Meghan are emphatically not working royals, so what kind of public role are they trying to create for themselves? Now they're back in Britain. And as other members of the royal family carry out their own engagements this week, are concerns around an alternative royal court for Harry and Megan justified. This is a big deal, isn't it? Because they came back at the end of August, lots of noise around their returns.

But this week is important, isn't it? Because this is the time we expect to see Harry and Megan together in public on manoeuvres. Tell us about what we can see this week. Well, we're going to have a whole load of royal style engagements up in Nottingham. There was so much speculation about when would Megan start appearing with Harry on official engagements. They're not official engagements because they're not working royals. But the fact they chose Nottingham, I think, is interesting. Because Nottingham is where we first saw them when they got engaged.

And they went up and, you know, she joined him on that engagement. they were very well received. So to choose that place, that city, I think is fascinating. It's almost like they're trying to remind the British public. Remember back then when we were really popular and you really liked us. We're going to see them do three different engagements up in Nottingham. They're going to start at the community recording studio, which we saw Harry. Well, Harry's been there before, of course.

He went there last year. It's a place that's all about creativity and young people, helping people who've been affected by violence. and they do music workshops. We think Megan's going to take part in an acting workshop. You know, she's about to return to acting quite soon. People say close to her. Harry went there last year. He gave a one million pound donation to this charity.

So it's also something he feels quite strongly about. They're going to be there with young people. It should be quite lively. It should be quite visual. I think seeing Megan reading some lines and acting will be fascinating. Then we're going to see them jump across town and go to the Him of Food Bank. And that's fascinating because they're going to be joined there by the women of the Grenfell Hub community. kitchen. Which Megan did a book about, didn't she have recipes? When she was a working royal,

she started cooking with these women in the Almanagh Community Kitchen in West London, helping those who've been affected by the Grandfell Fire. There's a lot of harking back to their time as working royals in these first two engagements. Well, that's it. We talk about kind of pseudo royal engagements, don't we? But this is like, there's almost like there's not been a break. It's like they're picking up where they left off. Why do you think seeing them back out on Royal Maneuvers this week is a big deal. Well, I was going to say, it's fascinating, but it's significant as well, isn't it? Because this is the moment that sets out why they're here, which is what we've been talking

about since they came back. Why have they come back? What's their plan? How do they want to present themselves? But this is significant because it shows they're back very much to do those pseudo-royal engagements. Public engagements. Public engagements, we've discussed on previous podcast.

They didn't like it when the kids. King put out that message through the Lord Chamberlain to say that they are akin to private citizens who carry out charity work. That was a slap down to them, wasn't it? Yes, because they very much see themselves as public figures. And this is them living their best lives as public figures in the public eye. And that's why it's significant because I think it's showing the reason for coming back. It feels like a bit of a pushback against that letter that the King sent out.

basically saying to everyone, government, military, Lord Lieutenant, treat them as private citizens with commercial interests. They're not public figures. They won't be greeted by the Lord Lieutenant. Lord Lieutenant when they arrive. I don't think they mind, do they? I mean, William doesn't have Lord Lieutenant at his gigs. He did in Belfast last week when I was in Belfast on Friday.

They do from time to time, but they are moving to a more modern system, aren't they? The Wales is. I see Nottingham as Harry and Megan going, you can send out as many letters as you like, we're going to keep doing what we like, which is doing our charity stuff, doing public stuff. It's going to look very similar

to the old Star World engagements, maybe with a little bit more, I don't know, freedom. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how different they look. Because from what we understand, the nature of these engagements and how they're going to be covered

by the media, which let's talk about, is harking back to what they left behind and wanted to break free from. But before we get to them, that, it's Megan, isn't it, out in public for the first time in this way? I mean, we've seen pictures of her meeting Malala Youssef Sy. We've seen her on Instagram. We've seen little snippets of Megan out and about at local pubs in the Cotswolds. But this is her first proper forate back onto the public scene in the UK. Because there's been other events. You know, was she going to

join him at the Wellchild Awards? No, she didn't. Was she going to join him on other engagements? No, she didn't. And she pulled out of two in the summer. They cited security concern. That's right. So this is significant, isn't it? Because it's her first appearance since 2022, but in a kind of quite safe environment because they know Nottingham's tried and tested. They know that there's a good response there. How do you think she'll be preparing for this? What will she want to show to the British public? Oh, I think at the first engagement at the community recording studio, just the very fact that there's an acting workshop there, which is a new thing for apparently CRS, you know, all that speculation that she might be in the gentleman, which I think

they're now playing down. The result is she's had loads of scripts sent to her and the movie is because she's definitely going back to acting now. So I think it'll be a way to remind the public, not just here in the UK, but, you know, that broadcast footage will go around the world. If she reads some lines in an acting workshop, it's going to be a reminder that this Duchess is actually an actress and she's going to be acting again very soon. So I think that is all fascinating. And I think she will be, you know, you remember from when we were covering engagements when they were working royals. She was pretty good at those engagements. She's an actress.

She knows how to put on a really good performance in that setting. She's a loss of the royal family in that respect. We talked about Harry being really well received in Nottingham, a great public reaction there. But when he was at the rugby, end of last week, mixed reaction possibly. Because there were booze within the stadium. He was there having a nice time. He was watching Lester, wasn't he? Yes.

He was watching with his cousin, which I thought was interesting, you know, up from the Diana side of the family, George McCorkerdale. So at the rugby, when the camera was on Harry, the commentator for the match said some booze there, the actual sports commentator who was commenting on it very definitely said that the booze were aimed at Harry. There was then a sort of reaction from some people close to him, suggesting that actually it was to do with the referees decision,

which the sports commentator then doubled down on when no, it wasn't. I thought that was interesting because if those booze were aimed at Harry, I think that would have taken him by surprise. Harry used to be patron of the RFU. Of course, that was taken over by the Princess of Wales when he left the UK. For him, though, he would feel a pint with his cousin watching the rugby on a Friday night would be a safe space that he would be well received. And the suggestion that he wasn't, which goes to the heart of the change of perception of Harry here in the UK.

And I know that is something that regardless of Harry saying, I don't care what everyone thinks, he minds very much what the British public think of him. Well, that's it because in my mind, whether or not the British public or the people in the stadium, rugby goers, were booing Harry or not, it's actually less interesting than his response to the booze because they were quite keen to move Harry away from that by sort of suggesting that, no, the booze were not directed towards him. They were, you know, towards something else. They will be hoping for a very different reception and Nottingham, won't they? What do you make of the fact? I'm particularly intrigued by the return of the Grenfell Hub community kitchen women to that second engagement at the Him of Food Bank with Megan. Because we were told that she was thinking about reconnecting with some of our old charities and patronages, which this is.

And that was a very successful one. Bringing that back into the new mould of how they're doing stuff. What did you make of that? It's a strange move backwards. It's almost like, let's pretend. And this last six years didn't happen. And we'll just carry on as we were. You know, it's easy to be cynical about these things.

But I think she is obviously interested in reconnecting with projects that she was passionate about. It plays to her sense of food, of supporting women and all that sort of stuff. It might be that she feels it's just too difficult to start from scratch back in the UK. Grandfather is an old thing from her working role past. And maybe she just feels in safer ground picking up from, you know, where she was before. Safe space, like we say, going back over our ground they know is tried and tested. Nottingham, Tick, Invictus, Tick, Grenfell, tick. Royal reporters covering engagements, tick.

Well, that brings us on to our next subject. The Royal Rota is for people who don't know, a pool system whereby British media, and to some extent as well, international media, can cover royal engagements. So if you've got the king in a small room having a chat with somebody else, they can't get the whole British media in there to cover that event. So what they do, they'll send a broadcaster, a print reporter, a photographer, a photographer, maybe a videographer with a broadcast producer to cover the event.

And on the presumption that they then feed that material back to the pack, Harry's always been very disparaging of the Royal Rota, particularly in later years. He wasn't always. You're right. He wasn't always. He wasn't always. We've both been invited around the world to cover his events.

But when they left, do you remember that extraordinary Sussex Royal website they set up, which listed all their grievances with Life was a Working Royal, why they were leaving, the freedom they were going to find, the new role they were going to find in America. There was a whole section, very emotional section on the British press and the Royal Rota. And they specifically said, it's still there for anyone to go and look at, we will no longer participate in the royal rotor system. Well, this started, didn't it, in the ramp to their wedding? Because Harry did not want the Royal Rotar covering the wedding at Windsor,

which was being paid for by large extent by taxpayers through security at Windsor. So he described it in his book Spare as being a small win to have the UK Royal Rotar outside. In his autobiography, he said that the rotor stunk to high heaven, that it was essentially a cosy little group. and it was all on the quib pro quo that you got access in return for favourable coverage, which you and I both know is not the case, given we've been very critical about members of the family and some things when criticism is deserved. So they very firmly rejected it when they left.

Very firmly rejected it. They said, in fact, they wouldn't have a voter system. They said also, Archwell said that they wouldn't have off-record source said briefings. Just leave that there. Just leave that there for a minute. But that's what they said. What are they doing now? Well, since they've returned, we've seen Harry on engagements.

And at all those engagements, there has been a reporter who is a member of the Royal Rota covering it. There has been an international reporter covering it for the international Rota. And in Nottingham, that is going to be repeated. There will be Royal reporters from the Royal Rota covering all three engagements. They will be international reporters covering it for all three engagements, pooling it. They will be photographers who are rotor photographers. and there will be broadcasters who are part of the Royal Rota.

So the new framework is how it was phrased to me a few weeks ago in some of my coverage saying they're going to be doing these engagements, they're going to be covered by a new media framework. It's quite similar to the old media framework. And it's using the existing royal one that the Palace has. Well, it's organised, isn't it, by the Royal reporters and the Rota in conjunction with the palace. It's a sort of two-way thing.

Which is exactly what they're planning for the Sussexes. It works. And they are having to acknowledge that part of it works. I mean, it feels like a bit of a backtrack from Harry, but also seeing that everything they walked away from is now coming back around. Maybe they're just cherry picking the bits that do work and reframing it for themselves, maybe. But they're going back to old jobs that they had before that they walked away from because they didn't want to do that. They're going back to a form of a royal rotor system for covering those jobs in the media, which they didn't like. They're going back to a form of a royal rotor system for covering those jobs in the media, which they didn't like. they walked away from and yet here we go back back around again what i think is really interesting is how exasperating this is to people in and around the palace who say you walked away you didn't want any of this they didn't just walk away quietly let's remember you know there was a there was a netflix six parts of noise yeah there's been exclusive interviews there's been a memoir written

just turning their back on the whole system. And they didn't want to be any part of that. And there must be members of the public who go, fair enough. I'm not sure I would want to be part of that either. Yeah. So a little bit surprising to say it mildly that they're back, doing very much what looks to be. If it walks like a duck and cracks like a duck, perhaps it's a duck.

You know, he's still fifth in line to the throne. I think it's confusing to the public to a certain degree. We've talked about these blurred lines before. because you have the palace, the king's letters hammering home the point, you're not working royals, your private individuals, but the public look at him and go, he's the king's son. He is fifth and nine to the throne. He's out there doing engagements. What's the difference? They are members of the royal family who are working. Different kind of works. They're doing commercial work as well. But my question is, how long can that distinction that the king is desperate to make really last? I don't think it really works.

It's exasperating for the palace. I think there's just how can they operate separately when there's somebody trying to kind of gig in on their job. They're coming after the same, trying to eat their lunch, aren't they? They're on their turf doing the same things. I mean, perhaps there's enough charity work to go around. Maybe there is. But it's a strange way to do it when you threw a bomb into your old life, walked away and now you're coming back. It's an acknowledgement, I think, that the new life in American. probably didn't go exactly as they anticipated, and Harry just does feel that much more comfortable doing the style of engagements that he grew up doing and did for sort of the first 30-odd years of his life. Coming up, they're right to be distrustful of people who've been very publicly critical about them and no invitation to Christmas. They're back doing engagements, they're back on UK soil, they're not back in the Royal Fold though, are they? We know because we speak to people in the house all the time, that there is exasperation behind palace walls about it, and there's not much they can do about it, except I suppose watch and see the media

coverage, see the public reaction to it. But, you know, we know that one of the main reasons Harry and Megan moved back was because he really wants to spend more time with his father. The king is still receiving cancer treatment. We're told by the palace, very positive direction of travel for his health, but he's still receiving cancer treatment at the age of 77. Harry wants to be here partly because Invictus Games next year, do more for that, but see his father more. He hasn't seen his father since he's been back. King's been in Scotland a lot, but he has been down a few times. We're told they're speaking on the phone.

A fair amount, I understand. And I'm told actually that relationship is getting better. But the rest of the royal family, I'm not aware that he has seen any other members of the royal family yet since he's been back. and it doesn't feel like they've been welcomed back with arms wide open. No, because I think, you know, they're right to be distrustful of people who've been very publicly critical about them. And no invitation to Christmas because, I mean, how could the King possibly invite Harry to Christmas? But you've written a bit about that, haven't you? And what?

What are their plans instead? They say, well, do you know what? We wouldn't want to come anyway. We've already got alternative commitments. I did. I did just ask the question, you know, what? they're doing. There's been a lot of speculation they were going to race back to America for half term. I was told they're not. That they would automatically race back to America for Thanksgiving

and America to be with Doria, Megan's mom. And, you know, no one really expected them to rock up at Sandringham for Christmas. What was interesting was the shift in a few years ago when I asked that question and got a very sort of haughty briefing from their team then going, well, they'd love to come to Sandringham, but they haven't had an invitation. They'd love to spend the holidays with the King, but no invitation has ever come. Whereas this time I'm when I asked the question, it was much more like, well, to be honest, they know they're not going to be invited, so they're not waiting for an invitation. There's no way that Harry and Megan going to Sandringham with the rest of their family could ever work. It's too awkward. Harry and William haven't spoken for four years. The rest of the

royal family are quite cautious about them. So I was told that they'll do whatever Doria wants to do, her mom. They'd love her to come here to the UK, but if she wants to be in America, they'll go to America. But the shift from three years ago, which was, we want an invitation to Sandringham to now we know we're not going to get one, even though we're back in the UK. A little bit more self-awareness, I thought. A bit more self-awareness, but also a kind of a realigning of the battleground for Harry and Megan, because they're here, they're drawing up their plans. What happens when there's an option to cover an event by William and an option to cover an event by Harry and the Royal Rotar is busy covering Harry and Megan engagements around the country. That will be interesting to

see what happens there. But also I think, you know, Harry has talked in military terms about the Royal Rotar and about being at war with it and winning the battles against it. Putting down his sword a bit, isn't he? I don't see it like that. I feel like he's just reassessing the battle plan of what he wants and saying, okay, fine. We're here. I'll have my phone calls with my father the king, I'll see him when I can, but I'm just going to plow on, but I'm building. I'm building a base here, whether you like it or not. So it does feel to me very, not that he's putting down his saw, but he's just sort of staking his case. I see it as a quite strong move from him. The reception here is interesting since they moved back, isn't it? Because until quite

recently, both Harry and Megan, every time there was a new polled on on royal popularity, they languished at the bottom of those poles just above Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, which is a pretty miserable place to be, given where they were at the beginning of their relationship publicly, Harry constantly polling near the top of those polls alongside the late Queen and Prince William. Megan was pretty popular too. Now, you know, for years since they left,

it's all been quite fraught and full of friction with their family. There's been a bit of a bounce in the polls, hasn't there? A boost in the polls is one way of looking at it, I suppose, if you're being positive, but you could see it as they're less loathed. I mean, small win. So Megan, you gov say that she was disliked by 61% of the public and liked by only 18%. That was from April to June.

And over July, August and September, she was disliked by only 49% and liked by 22% in the ratings. So there is a shift there. Perhaps people say, good luck to you. You know, you're a female entrepreneur. Do your jam. Do what you've got to do. I think as much as keeping an eye on the media coverage, which they will, because regardless of what both Harry and Megan say,

they keep a very close eye on all media coverage about them, particularly in the UK, they will both have a very close eye on that, particularly Harry, because regardless of what Harry has said over the years about he'll do whatever he wants to do, regardless of what anyone thinks of him, he does care very much what the British public think of him. I know he does. He does. And he will want to be liked here and he will want to be acknowledged for the work he's doing with things like convictors, with things like this charity work.

So any movement in those polls, I think, will be close to. tracked by them. Like politicians scanning the approval ratings. They don't need to win votes, but they kind of do, don't they? They need to win the public vote if they want to stay here and make a go of it. I think they feel they do. And I think you're right, they do, because otherwise it's going to be a pretty miserable time in the UK if you're going about doing this charity work and then the run-up to

the Amity's games, which is obviously the main point on the horizon for Harry in terms of what does success back in the UK look like. Success back in the UK for Harry and Megan looks like, I think, a very successful. successful positive in Victor's Games next July in Birmingham. And we know he'd love to have the King supporting him for that. There's a long way to go before that happens. But they do. They're back here. They're doing this public work. They need to be viewed more favorably in order for it to be successful. So this seems like a bit of a test pilot, doesn't it? Back to Nottingham, back to the Grenfell jobs, back to the Royal Rotar. Let's see how this works. It does feel like they're trying to

build on something, but they can't just keep going back to Nottingham. They're going to have to try this route elsewhere. Well, how much more do you think we'll see? If Nottingham goes well, do you think we'll start seeing them on weekly engagements? I don't see why not. I mean, it depends how much acting work Megan does and how busy she is with that. But, you know, one thing I know about Megan is she's a hard worker, isn't she? Her diary is full, say her friends here. Wow. Exactly. So I think, watch this space. She's not somebody who's just going to retire to the countryside. The one interesting thing I thought from last week, which has really divided opinion, and it goes to the heart of this question about commercial interest versus charity work.

In their non-working royal status, they do things commercially. They know they've got to make money. They're not part of the sovereign grant. They don't get money from the game. Being an international humanitarian in and of itself doesn't pay. We believe they've got rent to pay. They've got big security costs for their security team. So we've had things in the last week like Harry doing that master class online talking about his grief with a therapist, which we know he got paid for, came in for a lot of stick on that. People saying he was cashing in on his mother's memory. We had Megan appearing being photographed at Claridge's, having tea, as you said, with Malala, Yusuf Sae. And then we had her post on social media, her Instagram the next day that one day's takings

from the as-ever lifestyle brand of jams and spreads and homeware was going to go towards Malala's fund. So there is, with Harry Megan, this constant. I think of members of the royal family at their doing charity work, philanthropy, but also earning a living. And that, as now they're back here, will be, I think, even more closely scrutinised. Especially by the royal family, because that was a deal at the Sandringham Agreement that they couldn't use their titles for commercial gain in a way that would disparage the standing of the royal family. So I think they have a difficult task ahead because if they're going to try to make money off the back of whatever it is that they do.

Well, what they do and what they clearly want to do are royal style engagements. So if they're making money in conjunction with that, it's really tricky. I agree. It's been one thing to do that for the last six years in America. We were kind of prepared for that. They left, they went to America for new commercial, you know, different kind of freedom they described it, different kind of life. We knew that making money over there.

Financial freedom. But being back here in the UK doing those old Star Wars. engagements and being commercially active is going to be a new look. And I think it'll be challenging for them. It'll be challenging for the institution. Let's see how it plays out. Well, he's going to find out, I suppose, if the king becomes too busy to take his calls. That's normally how it goes, isn't it? Yeah, usually. Well, Nottingham will be interesting. That's all from us this week. But we'd love to hear from you. What do you think Harry and Megan are trying to get out of their move to the UK? get in touch by emailing the royals at the times.co.uk and we may feature your question in a future episode.

And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to rate and share it. It really helps others discover the show. We'll be back next week, so make sure you never miss an episode by following us on your podcast app or on YouTube at the Times Royals channel. Until then, thanks for joining us on The Royals, and we'll see you next week.