The Royals with Roya and Kate - Bonus: The Palace and Politics

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

The snap election caught many by surprise - even the Palace? The month ahead was supposed to be a hugely busy time for the Royals with both ceremonial and state occasions. So what happens now? In this bonus episode, Roya and Kate are joined by royal biographer Hugo Vickers to explore how politics will impact protocol at the Palace, as King Charles faces the first general election of his reign. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kate, how are you? It's very good to see you. Blah, blah, blah. Charming. Look, we don't have time for niceties because all of a sudden it's election season. And if you, the listener, didn't already know about the magic of podcasting, you will now. Do explain. Well, we're not coming to you live. This is, drumroll please, pre-recorded. What? I did think we'd already done this podcast once before. Well, yes. Before Rishi walked out in the pouring rain and made his big, soggy announcement, we recorded a new episode of The Royals with Royer and Kate. It was a great episode

too. I listened this morning. It was fab, if we do so so ourselves. So we're back again today to quickly discuss what this election kerfuffle means, because it's a royal story too. It is. The King had a busy Wednesday, it seems. And so we've invited our royal whisperer, Hugo Vickers, to help make sense of it all. Hello, Hugo. Welcome. Now, the real reason we have you here is because we're about to enter the busiest month for the King. Or, we thought it was going to be a very busy month for the King. Now it looks like it might be a much, much less busy month for the king.

So the line-up, which is still very much in the balance because of the general election that's been called and the implications for the royal family having to change and pause their work. One D-Day commemorations in the UK and France. Yes. Yeah. I wouldn't have thought that that would be affected because that's a sort of... They said they're going to keep that.

That's definitely going ahead. All the royal engagements surrounding that, both in Portsmouth and in France, they're going ahead. To Trooping the Colour, which does hang in the balance because technically that is the government's official celebration of the monarch's birthday, apparently. official celebration of the monarch's birthday, apparently. I would have thought, if I was the private secretary, I would be pushing for that to continue because in a way it's the troops, isn't it, respecting the colonel-in-chief. And I don't think it's political in any way at all.

Fingers crossed not, because we'd all love to see that. I know I would. It's always a bit of a highlight. I love that pomp and pageantry. And I like the horses. And it happens on a Saturday as well, so it's good for the Sunday papers. It's good for Sunday times. You always get Prince Louis doing this. love that pomp and pageantry and i like when it happens on a saturday yes yes sunday times you

always you always get prince louis doing this so it's always you know you know you've got a good page one picture exactly no no i mean i think listeners that was that was the fingers in the ears sorry fingers in the ears pulling it's pulling a prince louis face do i mean he's so famous now pulling his faces you almost don't need to kind of see what i'm doing you can just imagine a prince louis face can't you you You can. Tongue out, eyes closed. But I think King's official birthday should be allowed to be celebrated. I mean, the reason he has an official birthday in June

is because of the weather, as opposed to, you know, whenever else he might've been born. He's born in November, as you know. November the 21st. So Hugo Vickers has ruled that that's okay. So I think we should go with that. Fingers crossed.

Three Royal Ascot, 18th to 22nd of June. Following on the garter ceremony, I would have thought that Royal Ascot was non-political, Yes, I think that's, I think there is no way in the world the Queen will let that be non-political and that will go ahead. No, and he really enjoyed it last year, didn't he? He sort of warmed to it.

He had a winner even. Yeah, well, I think that was the whole thing. I mean, someone in the racing industry told me who sort of was very across um his communication with his trainer that he was entirely disinterested until he had his first winner and then they couldn't get him off the phone well i mean i mean it's so exciting i mean even if you're a punter i mean i remember once um backing a horse and spotting it coming from the back of the field before the commentator did and it won the gold cup. And that was so exciting. And that was just me with a few shillings on it.

So I can imagine if he actually had it. Yes. And then after Royal Ascot, the Japan state visit. The first for a very long time, planned at some point towards the end of June, still TBC. And at some point towards the end of June, still TBC. But again, royal sources are saying that hangs in the balance because, of course, state visits, as we will discuss more, are very political. They are all about soft power and they happen at the request of the government and on the invitation of the government. And they are there for our royal family to sort of help along business to business between two nations. So I think.

And also that's been postponed already because it was supposed to take place in spring 2020. But then because of COVID, it made me think if it's taken them four years to get it back on track, then they won't be minded to postpone it lightly, will they? I think that's a difficult one, isn't it? The state visit, because the Prime Minister is still the Prime Minister until such time as he's either confirmed as going on as prime minister or indeed has to go and resign and a new prime minister comes in. But he is still the prime minister. And yet, I suppose you could argue that his prominence at a state visit would give him sort of one up on his opposition, on the opposition leader. one up on his opposition, on the opposition leader. But I think that trying to arrange a state visit between two such important countries, it's so important that it should happen that I very much hope again, that it will continue. And that, you know, maybe, I don't know what the role

of the prime minister, but he'd obviously have to be there, I guess, and he'd have to go to the state banquet, but he doesn't have to do very much else. He might have a few meetings. Leaders of the opposition go to those things anyway, don't they? They do, absolutely. Yes, very much so. They're very much at the state banquet. And of course, and also, I would imagine that whoever the emperor, the new emperor brings with him, would have meetings with not only the present prime minister, but the potentially future prime minister.

They would do that. It's such a fine line, though, with the royal family and politics and elections because we are constantly you know fed the line that the royals have to be above politics and when rishi called the election there was a huge kerfuffle from the royal pack on the whatsapp group with the palace going is this going to happen is that going to happen and you know they were like we at the moment everything is everything hangs in the balance you know we're going to seek? Is that going to happen? And, you know, they were like, at the moment, everything is, everything hangs in the balance. You know, we're going to seek further advice from government and see what, you know, can go ahead and can't go ahead. The reason being that they can't be seen to do anything that might one, you know, even in the sort of smallest

possible way, sort of influence or, you know, have an impact on the election. And so the cause driven work, things like, you know, if William was going to be doing a homelessness event, I suspect that wouldn't go ahead. And the royal family are so touchy about it, so sensitive about it. Because I remember in the 2015, in the run-up to that election, which was in May in 2015, I can remember going to meet someone from the household and I got the most extraordinary, like strong, I sort of said, you know, what's, at that point, a lot of people thought there was going to be a hung parliament. A lot of people thought, you know, that Ed Miliband would do much better than he did. And David Cameron would do much worse than he did. And that there was a prospect of a hung parliament. And the palace and the

Golden Triangle, of course, you know, the monarch's private secretary, the prime minister's principal private secretary, and the cabinet secretary who were there to sort of ensure the smooth running of things. There was a great nervousness within the Golden Triangle that either Ed Miliband or David Cameron might not quite get a majority and would seek to go and literally go and see the Queen and say, I've got the confidence of the House, I can form a government. And you get the other one going, no, I can form a government. And they were very nervous that the Queen would be drawn in to this sort of political kerfuffle, which was predicted.

And so there was a very, I asked about this and then got this extraordinary kind of information that they wanted out there, that actually they were letting both politicians know, do not come anywhere near the Queen and ask to form a government until you know you can form a government. Don't think you can use her as a prop. Don't muck her around. Don't draw her in. And actually, her private secretary then, a guy called Sir Christopher Guyte, of course, you know, now Lord Guyte, moved to Downing Street a little bit and was sort of in the office to be her eyes and ears in the run-up to the election and afterwards just to check that she wasn't going to be drawn in.

And it was an extraordinary sort of, they were very nervous about it. And in the end, David Cameron got a majority. I'm sure you're absolutely right about that. I don't think it would, I don't seem to remember the Queen cancelling engagements, though, in the run-up to the campaign. She was doing a lot less then. I suppose that would be easier, yes. I do see that. But in the early days, of course, she had a much stronger role in the times when, for example, when Macmillan resigned, when he was ill, as to who was going to,

was it going to be Hailsham, Alec Douglas Hume and all those things and Butler and who was going to be called. And also when Antony Eden resigned after Suez, again, she then called in Winston Churchill and Lord Salisbury to have a discussion. And then they had discussions back, you know, back at base, basically. But her prerogative, the prerogative of the monarch, as you know, has been greatly reduced since then by the way that leaders are chosen. I think one of the benefits, presumably, of not going on engagements at the moment while this campaigning is going on is that they can't be seen to say anything or do anything, because I remember the huge kerfuffle when there was a referendum

over whether Scotland would become independent and the Queen outside Balmoral said to somebody, I think, a member of the public, I hope people think very carefully before they vote, which was seen to be this huge intervention at the time. And it sort of later emerged that it had been quite, you know, a strange and happy coincidence for some people that a reporter had been there to capture a strange and happy coincidence for some people that a reporter had been there to capture that comment as it was made so there was a suggestion that perhaps this one kind of seemingly innocuous comment from the Queen was actually an interesting intervention so I hope you people think carefully i.e. you know don't do anything rash please don't

leave Scotland. I've always thought that if you translated that to you were standing on the edge of a cliff and the Queen said, think very carefully about what you're about to do. She's not advising you to jump, is she? No, not quite. And what an intervention, isn't it? That's what it was certainly seen as. I think it was. It was a very subtle, but hugely impactful intervention. And of course, we then later had David Cameron letting slip and then having to apologise that when Scotland decided to remain part of the UK, he said to someone that she had purred down the telephone to him like a cat.

You know, she was so pleased. Not very cool that David Cameron then revealed that. Not at all. As soon as they leave their office, you know, they're singing like canaries or in boris's case within five minutes of being within office he was singing like a canary came out of buckingham palace having having uh you know kissed hands with the queen to become prime minister and was telling people what she'd said instantly or it's always very interesting we have

a we have an idea of what the Queen thought about certain prime ministers, and it always comes from the prime ministers, not from the Queen. Well, quite. Yes. Who was her favourite, do you think? I don't think she discriminated between them at all. I think, actually, that she was very good at supporting the elected and chosen man. And I think you'd have been a very, very unwise person to criticise the incumbent prime minister in her presence. She had some female prime ministers too. She had three. Well she look at what she did with her she gave her the order of

merit she gave her the garter she came to her 80th birthday and she attended. Baroness Thatcher of course we're talking about. Exactly Baroness Thatcher and attended her funeral so I think that I think I'm sure that she was given Mrs Thatcher as much support as she felt she could. She was giving Mrs Thatcher as much support as she felt she could. So now we're in this kind of election campaigning kind of fever. Everyone's going to be talking about different political parties going around the country. What is the role for the king, Hugo, in terms of what can he do? Presumably there'll be meetings and tell us what sort of, this is sort of a strange period, isn't it, for the new king?

It is a strange period. I mean, basically, he will be waiting to see what happens with the democratic process and who the new leader is. And whoever is turned up, he will welcome and will support in every way he possibly can, because he knows that that is his duty and that's what he will do. And he now has to take the advice of government over the next few weeks as to what he does and doesn't do. Is that how it works, that they are, that the palace seeks advice from government as to... I think there seems to be, to my mind, I mean, you know, having sort of looked a lot at the late Queen's reign,

that I didn't really get the impression that she didn't impression that she sort of stepped down from doing various things. I don't think that was particularly an issue. And in fact, in 1974, she was out in Indonesia, I think, during the election campaign. And she came back at one point to open parliament and then went back again. Well, isn't that interesting that they're much more sensitive about it now?

And I wonder if that's because maybe they think Charles is a bit more of a political king um well he hasn't proved to be has he he's been very he's been very good but he has behaved himself hasn't he he really has well i think i think i tell you what i think he's discovered is that as a head of state he has opportunity to talk to other heads of state behind the scenes all the time all the time and that's what he does flexing those soft power diplomatic muscles yeah but also he's got that lifetime of you know those relationships with them hasn't he to start with i also think that they're probably taking more seriously than they would have done

when he was prince of wales i know it sounds ridiculous to say that but no i'm sure but you know suddenly he is the top man now so they will listen to him in a different way so and president macron he are always talking the whole time. And he'd been meeting with President Biden and people like that. And so he can do that, which is exactly what a monarch should do. And he's very, very busy. And that's why I feel sorry for him that to some extent, his activities have been curtailed, because I think he was greatly enjoying it. So in the next, over the next six weeks, will he still have his weekly audience with the Prime Minister? Ah, probably not.

I don't know the answer to that question, to be honest. I don't think so. No, I don't think he will. I think the Prime Minister will be out on the road. So Rishi might have seen the King for the last time this Wednesday when he went to go and say, unless he comes back to say goodbye. Would you disown Parliament? At the state visit, he might see him again.

Then he has to go in, let's say he loses the election. he has to go in doesn't let's say you know he let's say he he has to come in and say goodbye because well the king knows the drill because of course this will be the third potentially the third prime minister of a reign that's not even two years old he did have a sort of baptism by far didn't he with liz truss i mean she was gone before you could mention it. Well, quite. I mean, the first thing that he did. But yes, so that's what the process is, of course,

that there comes a point when an outgoing prime minister knows that he has lost the election. He telephones the leader of the opposition to congratulate him. Nice to be on the fly on the wall for that one. And then he, at appropriate moment, goes to the palace in an official car, says goodbye, and then comes out, usually, I think, in even a different car.

Do you think he gets better biscuits? Well, as you may remember, well, actually, you won't remember because you weren't even born at the time, but in 1963, when... I can exclusively rule I was not born in 1963, nor was Kate. Thank you.

Exactly. When Harold Macmillan was in hospital, he asked the Queen to come and see her. So he was still Prime Minister. And they had a meeting in the hospital so that he could give her advice about, which is basically ditching Butler, as to who the next leader should be. And then after the Queen left, he went back to bed. And seconds later, he heard somebody scuffling around on the floor they were taking away the scrambler because he he was out that was it that's cool

i mean it's so quick i mean it just dissolves it's so quick but if you're liz dross it's really really really quick yes i know they're very sensitive i mean with i think theresa may was quite upset when she when she went to see the Queen and so they sort of took her out through a side door and oh dear she was upset wasn't she yeah well I remember when she gave that speech and I can also tell you which perhaps I shouldn't is that you must that uh Cherie Blair came out and um as she came out she said and I curtsied to her yes wow look at that the Queen always won in the end. Always, always. Thank you so much, Hugo. It's such a pleasure having you on that we'd love for you to stay, please, for part two,

where we will be talking about protocol and the royals. If you will join us, grace us with your presence. Thank you. You will give us your royal seal of approval, Hugo. We'd be delighted. Yes. Thank you. You will give us your Royal Seal of Approval, Hugo.

We'd be delighted. Yes. Now, next week, you will hear more of our conversation with Hugo Vickers, our wonderful first guest on the podcast, as we take a deeper look at the protocol surrounding big state visits and June's big events on the Royal Calendar. And you're off on holiday, Kate. It's all right for some. I am. But fans of the Royals will not be let down. big events on the royal calendar and you're off on holiday kate's all right for some i am but fans

of the royals will not be let down you will get an episode don't worry and it will be marvelous where are you off to kate going to somerset oh i hope the birds can be really nice for you have a lovely time bring your present back please do bye bye