The Royals with Roya and Kate - Can William save the planet and his family after the "Andrew problem"?

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

As the fallout from the ‘Andrew problem’ rolls on, William is in Brazil to present the Earthshot Prize and represent the King and government at the environment summit, COP30, as he attempts to steer the agenda towards green innovation. But can William also shift the royal narrative? And will the Andrew story require a bigger break from the past for the royals?Presenters: Roya Nikkhah, royal editor for The Sunday Times, and Kate Mansey, royal editor of The Times.Producer: Robert WallacePhoto: Getty Images Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals from The Times and Sunday Times with me, Royneika. And me, Kate Mansy. Today, we're in Rio de Janeiro, where Prince William is on a mission to refocus the Royal Agenda on climate and the environment. But as the fallout from the Andrews saga continues at home, can William reset the story or does scandal still set the pace? Well, it's more than 5,000 miles from Rio. in Brazil to Sandringham in Norfolk, but the two feel very closely linked this week. Because Sandringham, of course, is where Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor, as he must now be known, the former Prince Andrew, will be housed by the king after being forced out of Royal Lodge

and stripped of his remaining titles. Rio, meanwhile, is exactly where the palace want people's attention to be, because this week, global leaders, innovators and campaigners are all gathering here as Brazil prepares to host the COP 30 climate summit. And Prince William is in town for the Earthshop Prize, his flagship environmental initiative, before travelling into the Amazon to Berlin, where he'll deliver a keynote speech at the COP summit alongside the Prime Minister, Sarkir Starma. It is without doubt a very significant week for the Prince and for the King, because both men are deeply passionate about this issue, and it represents for the first time William here on behalf of his father and on behalf of

government. It's a moment designed to show unity, stability and a future-facing monarchy. But the royal family knows what's at stake. They hope that this historic moment is not overshadowed by what the palace insiders bluntly call the Andrew problem back at home. A crisis, they insist, is now contained, but is it? So Kate, here we are in Kobe Cabana in Rio. And we really want to talk a lot about William and Earthshot and COP and environmental campaigning in the future of the monarchy in his eyes, but we can't really escape the Andrew problem. Because in the last couple of days we've had the Defence Secretary saying the government are now taking

steps to remove Andrew's last remaining title, that advice admiral. And I've been desperate to chat to you for the last couple of weeks as you've been attempting some time off. Just to get a sense from you as to what you thought about all of this. I mean, it's been an extraordinary couple of weeks. Well, it was astonishing really because obviously, This has been building for some time. We've spoken about it before,

about how this, you know, Palace and Siders told me it was a tipping point because this was the first time we saw an email from Andrew, which acknowledged that he had lied about the contact he had with Jeffrey Epstein. And then what happened was that I don't know much about a tipping point, but it felt like a kind of just falling off a cliff, snowballing into an avalanche, essentially, wiping out Sarah Ferguson on the way with another email from her.

And then we had this extraordinary, day where I was told that the king was considering taking away all his titles. And it's one of those stories where you hear it from two different sources and then you sort of go, that sounds like a lot because he won't be known as the Duke of York. But it was right. And we ran the story online. And within a few hours, we had a statement at 7pm on that Friday evening from Prince Andrew himself, or Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, as he must now be known, saying that he was relinquishing all his titles. That wasn't the end of it because then in the last two weeks we've still had the kind of rumbling on, more revelations, more discussion about it and whether this was all a fudge,

you know, the fact that he still had his titles but wasn't going to use them, which led then to that extraordinary kind of Thursday night moment where the king announced that he was formally going to remove those titles. So he was going to go through the kind of dotting the eyes and crossing the teas, if you like, to take away those titles. And then the aftermath of which was John Healy, the defence secretary, saying that that honorary title of Vice Admiral would be removed by the Ministry of Defence. So all the kind of the nuts and bolts, all the levers were actually being pulled behind the scenes. But you did get this sense because even though the Palace had issued that statement from Andrew himself, you still had all the discussion,

all the economists, it was still the front pages every day. There was still so much going on. And clearly, you know, that statement was not sufficient. And the palace realized that. And the palace did act. And we learned that it was, you know, with Williams backing his support for his father in doing so. But it's just been one thing after another, hasn't it? It's just been extraordinary. What I found really interesting at the weekend about John Healy saying,

we're working at pace to remove that Vice Admiral honorary role. That's the one he got in 2015 for his 55th birthday. But what he couldn't do, John Healy, was to say whether Andrew would be able to keep his campaign medal from the Falklands conflict. Because obviously he served with the Royal Navy as a helicopter pilot during that conflict. Yeah. And I thought that was really unusual because I didn't think that they would be doing that. And then the palace refused to deny it or stand it up in any way. So they were sort of just letting that story run, which I thought was kind of strange.

it means essentially they are considering whether taking that away from him as well. Yeah. So it really is no holds barred with Andrew. They've taken away his Prince title. They've taken away Duke of York title. They've taken away his home. And there is still behind the scenes, obviously, this growing concern with some in the palace that perhaps his mental health is an issue as well.

So, you know, we must be mindful of the fact that this is someone who's, if he had everything taken away from him and has always maintained that he's innocent in any relation to Jeffrey Epstein. in any of those any of Virginia Geoffrey's allegations we must say that he's always

always denied any wrongdoing I think what you've done there is sort of encapsulate an extraordinary couple of weeks where we've seen the palace not on the front foot at any point

really honestly it was quite clear when we talked about a couple of weeks ago that that first statement was a bit of a fudge wasn't really going to work it has

despite the fact that the palace clearly want at a very clear line to be drawn under everything now. It shows no sign of really, I think, totally disappearing. You know, as you mentioned, the issue of campaign medals, the issue of the rear admiral title.

Almost every day, Andrew is still making headlines and not the kind of headlines that the royal family would like to see, despite the fact that, as the palace says now, there are no more Lieber's we can pull. I mean, actually, they have said that before. He is still in the line of succession, which some people are, you know, a lot of people find quite extraordinary,

that everything's been sort of taken away. He's still a councillor of state. Of course, he'll never be called on to do that. But it is that sort of, it's the disappearing act of the former duke. But is it going to be enough to disappear the story? And the feeling I think at the moment is, no, that story hasn't disappeared yet. And given that there's so much more still that we expect to come out from the Epstein files and US Congress. Totally out of the palace's control.

Because this is all going to come out of America, most like. A lot of it, anyway. The last few weeks, I think, have just shown that there's a lot more to run with this story, which obviously is not what the royal family and not what Prince William here in Rio want. And it just goes to show, doesn't it, that I think for the first time you've got a situation where princely behaviour is required for a princely title. Having said that, he maintains that eighth position in the line of succession. And you can take away his titles, but you can take away his titles,

can't actually extract his Windsor DNA. He remains part of the royal family, whether they like it or not. This story is going to rumble on whether they like it or not. And Chosenosein, really of stopping, you know, as you wrote the weekend, there are

issues behind the scenes as well that they're not at all happy with the way Andrew dealt with it in the first place. You know, nearly six years ago, that Newsnight interview in 2019, but they're not even happy about the way in which he's dealt with it in recent weeks, not acknowledging, not including any acknowledgement for the victims of Geoffrey

Epstein. Why they, to me, all of that begs the question and the piece that did at the weekend, which was extraordinary to me when I found out that going back to the 2019 News and Interview, the statement that was put out there, the statement since around settlements, the one we had a few weeks ago, that every time we had gone to Andrew for sign off and Cortes had put in references to the victims feeling that, you know, they needed to be acknowledged, they were removed. I can't understand is why Andrew has had so much control over what has gone out on Buckingham Palace, you know, in Buckingham Palace's name. Even two weeks ago, I found that statement

extraordinary in the name of Prince Andrew. Because I think what was the palace expecting was going to happen? You know, someone who has, as the King says in that statement, made serious lapses of judgment, errors of judgment. Why is he still getting sign off on statements like that? I think because it was always the easiest option for Andrew to, as they say, do the right thing. And walk away, you know. What I think we're seeing, which I think is really interesting is the way in which the monarchy is changing and developing. Obviously, the Queen tackled it to some extent with Andrew, but didn't really solve the problem, let's face it. No. Clouded by her love for her son, no doubt, and various other matters. But what we're seeing now is a more

corporate, dare I say it, approach to running an institution. Because if someone doesn't perform in their job, you're not happy with their job. You can sack them. He stood down from his titles, again, voluntarily, and had hope then to come back, was told no. But it is this kind of, I think the corporatization, if you like, of the monarchy. It was only recently that William had an advert up for a CEO of his household. But I think the monarchy is developing, it's becoming not more bureaucratic, I would say, but, you know, it's more in line with procedure and the way we expect people to behave and repeat. And percussions if you don't because that's what the public want to see that's an interesting thought

if it's becoming more like more like a corporation and more corporate there are a lot of question marks over how much corporate failure has been going on over the last 15 years well this is it I mean this is the problem with the Andrew problem because it's not just about Andrew yeah we've got an ongoing conversation haven't we about finances and how the public is financing it well I think that's changed I think that will now change forever I don't think the royal family and the institution can continue to be as opaque as they have been for injuries over their finances. I think that's the real tipping point.

You know, they talked about the tipping point with Andrew. I think this is the real tipping point. And this is actually, this is going to, it's what it stands for and what it's going to change. And it's not just about Andrew here and now. I think there will be changes brought in as a result of this over result of public anger over his friendship with a convicted paedophile, convicted sex offender after we knew that he had pleaded guilty to those crimes. He was still in touch with them.

Still so many questions there. But the ramifications of this for the whole institution, I think, are going to be huge. Yeah, I agree. I think the institution will struggle to continue to not deliver transparency going forward. I think it'll be tough. So if we're talking about a corporate structure of the institution, you could almost say you've got the King as chief executive. You've maybe got William as his chairman. We're told by Palace sources that William fully supports the King's leadership over everything in terms of how he's acted.

the decision he's taken in terms of stripping Andrew of everything. There's a real sort of mood music around the palace to try and project unity between the king and Prince William over not just this, but also moving to this week, where we've got William in Brazil representing his father at COP for the first time. The king, we know, I was told at the weekend, has been chatting to William a lot about his appearance at Bel-M. He's been looking at the speech.

He's been fiddling with the speech. And yes, he's not delivering it himself. Absolutely. But there is a sort of sense coming, isn't there? That over this crisis that the king and the future king have been in lockstep and very, very keen to project that. Do we think they really are? All the palaces, both households say, don't they, that they agree, you know,

that William has supported his father in these moves over Andrew. They've been talking. There's been lots of conversations about this speech that William will be giving on behalf of the British government, but also on behalf of the king. He's here representing the king. He's also here representing himself, of course, because they're his Earthshot Prize Awards. So we're here covering Earthshot

and we're here covering William in Brazil and going to Bellarmes in the Amazon rainforest later this week alongside Kirstama. Is this going to be the reset that they need? Because this week it's got even bigger, hasn't it? In a way, the Andrew problem, because you had Donald Trump on Air Force One. I mean, when Donald Trump starts talking about it,

You know, it's reached... The man who has avoided the Epstein subject. Well, exactly, but he did tell reports... As much as possible. He told reporters this week, but this is what he said about the Andrew situation and what's happened in the last few weeks. It's a terrible thing that's happened to the family. That's been a tragic situation.

It's too bad. I feel badly for the family. Now, we know Trump absolutely loves the royal family. And we know when he last came here, came to the UK for the state visit, the Andrew problem had loomed over that because Peter Mandelson, our former ambassador, had just lost his job over his links to, you guessed it, Jeffrey Epstein. So we've now got William here representing the king, big moment for his own initiative airshot and for Cobb. What the royal family will be hoping for, and what William is certainly going to be hoping for, is that this is a

sort of big reset moment, refocus the public's attention, wrestle it back from the Andrew problem in the headlines and the scandal, bring it back to what the family does, what it thinks it's there for, duty, service, public work. But is it possible? At Standing Uncle the Kavana Beach last night, watching William play beach volleyball, I thought it was actually because maybe because I'm here and, you know, there were people screaming William, William, William. He did get stuck in, you know, his shirt came out, he had to tuck it back in, got a bit flustered.

But I thought those pictures are what people will see, that kind of joie de vivre, the kind of him just getting on with business. There is a lot of energy around the trip. On Wednesday night, we're going to see the Earthshot Prize Award ceremony with Kylie Minogue. Sean Mendez. Sean Mendez. Tonight, there are going to be drones in the sky with the Earthshot logo. We've got Earthshot Boulevard here in Rio.

It's bigger than ever. It's louder than ever. It's more fun than ever. And I think this is actually a great week for the Royal Family to have this here. And then he can go off and do the kind of serious conference stuff at the COP Summit. climate change summit up in Bel-M? I think it's Williams' take on, it's him sort of pushing forwards that new, not new, but kind of evolving brand of monarchy, isn't it?

It's a little bit celebrity, but not too much celebrity. It's a little bit diplomacy. It's a lot of, what's the word that he uses, scaling up. He wants to sort of scale up young people. We had him yesterday, didn't we? We were in the Marican R, which was very exciting. But he was talking about, he was talking to a lot of young people who were on. on Earthshot programs here in Brazil.

And he was saying, what I don't want to do, and I always think it's quite interesting because you hear William say, I don't want to preach and tell you what to do. I'm not going to tell you how to live your lives environmentally. It's sort of you guys come up with ideas, and we're here to kind of boost that and build it. He's like a facilitator rather than a lecturer.

So I suppose the question is, it's very exciting here. We're here, we're in the middle of it. But how does that play at home? Is that changing the dial at home? And I think on a rainy November morning, when you've got Rachel Reeves lecturing you about what she's going to do with the budget, perhaps a prince playing volleyball in the sunshine is not the answer, some might say. It's lovely pictures, but it's of its time here, isn't it? I mean, it's definitely creating a big buzz here.

We're here. We're in the bubble. We're travelling with him here and to Belle-M. But is it going to cut through? is it going to sort of shove the problems aside with Andrew and the family? I don't think so. Temporarily, yes, here on the ground. But I think, you know, and not to be a doom monger about it, but I think, as you rightly pointed out,

the whole Andrew scandal of the last few weeks, which has been building 15 years, has brought the four big, big issues and big problems that the institution needs to address. And it needs to actually, I think, take some time strategically, a few steps back, look at all of those problems and issues and think very strategically about which ones we're going to address

in which order. The other thing to mention that happened this week which was very interesting and speaks to the heart of the other unresolved issues in the royal family and I am talking listeners and viewers about the Duke of Sussex, Prince Harry. Because at the very moment, on Monday morning,

the Duke of Sussex says office announces officially that Prince Harry is going to Toronto this week for two days for an official visit and there was quite a few raised eyebrows not just within the Royal Rotter Pack and

the sort of white pack but actually across a lot of other sort of spheres too the timing was very very very questionable I mean what I think is interesting and I think Harry does feel quite relieved that he's sitting with a slight remove from the institution at the moment with all the Prince Andrews stuff going on

You know, just being here in Rio, as we've got that news from Prince Harry's team, again, was just another reminder, a tangible reminder of another unresolved issue for the royal family for the king, for William. It continues to rumble and continues to cause issues and is unresolved. I have some sympathy for the king. It's just... It's not really how he saw his rain playing out, is it? It's just one problem after another. No, when someone at Royal Source said to me, we've seen the last three years, we've seen his warmth and compassion as king. Now, this is a moment in which he's showing his steel,

which I thought was interesting, that he wants to be seen as a tough king as well, and he wants to be seen to be doing the right thing and doing what's morally right. And I do get a sense of that genuinely from Charles. I don't think he's a PR trickster like that. I think this is something that he feels very strongly about, that he wants to do the right thing,

he's driven by duty, works very hard. And I think there's a lot of sympathy for Charles and the way in which he's gone about it. It can't have been easy. It's his brother after all. It can't have been easy. I mean, they're not close at all. but I think the last few weeks and the last few months must have taken a real toll on him.

And this is a man who is carrying out affairs of state while still having weekly cancer treatment. So it's a lot for him. But I know that he will want this week to go very well for William, won't he? Because he's here on behalf of him. William carries the baton of his father in terms of environmental campaigning, although he's very much his own man on it. But, you know, he does. It's, you know, his father and Charles's father, late Duke of Edinburgh.

It's seeing the sort of family generational campaigning activism all the way down and continuing into the future. So I'm sure the king will wish William very, very well this week in Brazil. So the palace has some tough days ahead. Andrew's moved from Royal Lodge to Sandringham is still to come, and US investigations over Epstein's seedy world continue. But as a friend of the royal family said, they will do what they always do.

They'll get back to work and remind people of the public service the institution can return to after it rides out these storms. The family will do what they've done for generations. They'll keep calm and carry on. It's an interesting thought. I think what you and I have said is that it's not enough. I don't think this is going to draw a line under the issues that have been raised, many issues that have been raised from the Andrew problem in terms of money, transparency,

what constitutes a working royal, even when you're not a working role, what you're getting up to behind the scenes. I think all of those issues will continue to rumble. said, I think the palace needs to look at them very strategically and very carefully going forwards, because I think we've seen the polls for the last few weeks, support for the royal family overall remains high. In fact, you know, King Charles, his poll rating has gone up a few points. People support how he's handled it. But I think people won't forget this. This is a story that has cut through. It touches so many things. It touches issues of, you know,

sexual abuse and victims and survivors, despite Andrew always denying anyone doing it, it goes to the part of entitlement, privilege, how members of the Royal Family run themselves in their lives. How the institution is run. How the institution is run. And is it run in accordance with how all our other institutions are on? And public anger has been high over this. And transparency is one thing. I don't think anybody's saying, you know, that we should be peering into their private lives in any way. But I think when that behaviour brings the rest of the firm, as Prince Philip called it, into disrepute, I think that's a big issue.

When they're representing Britain PLC on the global stage, as we're seeing this week. Yeah. And I think it has, isn't it? That issue of bringing the institution into disrepute, the Andrew problem has overshadowed to the entire institution for the last few weeks. In fact, you mean, you could say it's rumbled on in the background for 15 years. Oh, at least. It's engulfed the role.

family in Scandal for the last few weeks. Yeah. I think big, big questions remain, like you say, strategic rethink going on behind the scenes in the coming months. But I do think this is exactly the sort of thing that William and Charles should be doing, just getting up and getting on with it. We're going to see William here in Brazil doing his thing, whatever you might think about his climate change campaigning. He's going to fly back and be with the rest of his family at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday. The King and Queen will do more engagements next week. And that's what we expect.

And I think no matter what's going on behind the scenes, like the late Queen, they get up and do the job. You know, we saw that, didn't we, when the Princess of Wales had those topless pictures printed years ago. Yes. And the next day she was out doing jobs, you know, on engagements, and that kind of just keep calm and carry on sensibility. And I think that will actually see them through the next few months.

But there needs to be those big discussions going. going on behind the scenes, a big rethink. And I think that should be in consultation with the public and, you know, Parliament if required. Well, I mean, as the royal family keep calm and carry on over the next weeks and months, we will continue to litmus test, won't we? It's a public mood.

People can tell us what they think. Yeah. But I sense we have not heard the end of the Andrew issue. So here in Rio, as Prince William prepares to step back on the world stage again, this has been a week of contrast for the monarchy. The Prince of Wales pushing for a future-looking agenda, while back home, the legacy of the former Prince Andrew costs a long shadow. And the question now is whether this moment becomes the reset, William hopes,

or whether the fall of Andrew continues to tug the focus back to the past. So we'll be watching how this plays out from Brazil to Britain? and what kind of monarchy emerges from this period will be one of the defining questions of the year ahead.