The Royals with Roya and Kate - Charles & Camilla 20 years of marriage - Royal Photographer Chris Jackson

Episode Date: April 12, 2025

The King and Queen celebrated 20 years of marriage in the romantic city of Rome. In this special episode, we look back on their time together. Roya was joined in Rome by Chris Jackson, the picture agency Getty's Royal photographer, who is responsible for capturing countless intimate moments of the couple together, including a new portrait to commemorate the occasion. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to the Royals for a very special episode from romantic Rome. There really is no better place to celebrate your 20th wedding anniversary as the King and Queen have found out this week because today in fact it's their anniversary as we record this. Do you know what you call the 20th anniversary Roya? A long old haul Kate. Also known as China. China. Not the next stop on the state visits at this stage. Well, we thought what better way to mark the occasion than a special episode looking back at their lives together. So in a moment, we're going to be joined by Chris Jackson, who I potted off

to have a little chat with earlier on just before he raced over to the state banquet tonight to take more photos of the lovebirds. But first, should we just reflect a little bit on the story of Charles and Camilla and that extraordinary love story that ended up with her as queen against all odds? Yes, as the late queen said at their wedding in 2005, they have encountered and overcome terrible obstacles and likened it to a horse race, didn't she?

The Grand National. Come over the fences and they're, you know, made- In the winner's enclosure. Yeah, they're in the winner's enclosure. Come over the fences and they're you know made the winners enclosure. Yeah they're in the winners enclosure and it does feel like they had they had a long haul just to get to that point of getting married and everything else has probably been easier since in some ways you know the fact that they seem to be going going well together. 20 years who would have thought it as the Queen said today? No one I mean it has been an extraordinary transformation I think for Camilla I mean, it has been an extraordinary transformation, I think, for Camilla.

I mean, we talked about it. She was, at one point, many newspapers and various media called her the most hated woman in Britain. And no one would have thought in those years in the run-up to their marriage that there would have been a time where she could have married into the royal family and become Queen. That's right. I mean, it's a PR triumph. Probably the greatest PR triumph in some ways. Probably the greatest triumph for him in terms of making him a much happier, much more settled person. And actually... She humanises him, doesn't she, in many ways? She does. And I think as a lot of people who work with them and know them and their friends

will say, he couldn't probably be doing job. He's doing now as King without her That's right. It's interesting looking at like you say where they've come and where they are now So when they announced their engagement when the palace announced their engagement the palace gave a statement saying that when Charles becomes King eventually That she would be known as Princess Consort because there was so much kind of trepidation that she could ever become Queen and the public didn't want that. And now we look at it you know here she is by his side his Queen out on government business it's unimaginable to think 20 years ago that we would be in the situation. When you speak to people in around the palace who know her

and they said, you know, partly, mostly it's down to her. The fact that she just gets up, gets on with it. She's herself. She's herself. But the transformation in him, I think, a lot of people have talked about how, you know, whether it's us who see him at work, the photographers who see him at work, his friends,

that he just is a sort of lighter, more settled human being with her by his side. And I think, you know, years ago, there was all that talk about Charles letting it be known to the Queen and courtiers that Camilla was non-negotiable, a non-negotiable part of his life. And so there was a sort of... And good for him. And the palace had to adapt to that. And understand that, you know, for the future monarch in order to make him able to make it work, they were going to have to make her work in his life and so they did and here we are 20 years after that wedding day that a lot of people thought would never happen for decades.

You talk about the effect that he has on her, so someone in the palace said to me, you know, people have described him a little bit like an Eeyore character from Winnie the Pooh. And they said, if he is an Eeyore, she brings out his inner tigger. So she'll say, you know, come and have a glass of wine. You know, let's come and have a settle down and, you know, stop put that away now, Charles. She's good for him. She is kind of grounds him in a way. Well, it was really interesting talking to Chris, because he has, he's been doing the job for more than 20 years. And has a unique insight. He does.

He is often asked to come and do the coronation pictures, the special pictures. The landmark moments. On the big moments. Yeah. He's there, you know, at those kind of key points in his life. He has seen the evolution of that.

And he does a brilliant job, doesn't he? He does. And she has a special Jaco smile, I think, the Queen. When she sees Jaco, she has a massive grin. She thinks this is going to be a good picture of me. And she has a sparkle in her eye and I think she just relaxes because she knows him, she likes him and he's developed that rapport with them so he's a fantastic photographer from that perspective but also he's part of the history of their marriage.

And he'll be taking some great pictures of them there tonight. Let's hear from him. So I'm delighted to be joined on the podcast by Chris Jackson. Here we are in Rome on the state visit. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. How magnificent is this to be in Rome? Are you having fun?

Absolutely. I've just had my first bit of pizza, which is, was exquisite. It was amazing. Good. So we've been here for a few days now, and obviously this is a big deal, big first state visit by the King and Queen

since the coronation. But it's also a very special week because the King and Queen have today celebrated, they are still celebrating, their 20th wedding anniversary. And to mark that, obviously we've had the King giving a speech in Parliament, he was talking about the anniversary,

we've had the Queen talking about speech in Parliament, he was talking about their anniversary. We've had the Queen talking about what makes their relationship so special. But you marked it in a very special way for all of us and took three lovely photographs of their Majesties to mark their official wedding anniversary. So I want to talk to you a little bit about their relationship and how you photographed them over the years.

But first of all, just tell us a bit about how special it was to be chosen to be the photographer to do that, because it's quite a landmark. I think, you know, any portrait of the King Queen is always special, and I've been very lucky to take a few over the years, and this was no different. And to take a portrait in such a special environment, this incredible city, the beauty, the light is just,

you know, is even more special, if it possibly could be. But you know, having photographed this royal couple for the last 20 years, you know, from the Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall to the King and Queen, they now are, has been an amazing journey. Only today I was going through some of the photographs I've taken over the years, those moments, just looking back at the incredible places and times we've had over the years, and it's amazing. When you're taking a photograph like that, or like a set of photographs,

obviously there's a lot of pressure, and I saw you straight afterwards and you did very well. What are you going for in terms of the image and the sort of feeling you want to try and capture and the emotion you want to capture? Is it relaxed? Is it formal? Is it a bit of both? Are you wanting to try and capture and the emotion you want to capture. Is it relaxed? Is it formal? Is it a bit of both?

Are you wanting to try and capture the affection there? How does that work? I think the fantastic thing about the King and the Queen is they have this incredible relationship warmth. They work together obviously incredibly well as a team. And in any picture I've ever taken of the King and the Queen, you know, they do have this synergy between them and they're just very natural with each other.

And, you know, to capture in such a relaxed environment is kind of the perfect combination. So it always seems to work very well with them. They're very professional. Yes. Now you were talking just then about how, you put up a little compilation today on your socials of them over the 20 years and you have been,

how long have you been doing this job for now? Wow, well, over 20 years, I think about 22 years now, I've been with Getty Images and, you know, probably, well, definitely traveled more with the King and Queen than any other member of the royal family. And over the years, we've been to some incredible places from the Galapagos Islands to India, obviously Australia, on a number of occasions, Canada and all these places, especially

places like Canada and Australia, you get to know so many of these people over the years and you, you know, to see people grow and to go to new places is always a huge privilege and something I never take for granted. So you're in quite a unique position. I mean, you've been doing this job even longer than me. You have seen those 20 years and you've seen the evolution of unique position. I mean, you've been doing this job even longer than me. You have seen those 20 years and you've seen the evolution of that marriage. I mean, the relationship obviously started before. Tell me a little bit about why,

I mean, we often talk about why you love photographing them so much. Tell me a little bit about why they're such a great pair when they're out as a team and why they're so great to photograph. Because you've rarely taken a bad picture of them. They always look very happy in your pictures. What is it about the king and queen that makes that team work, do you think, as someone that picture of them, they always look very happy in your pictures. What is it about the King and Queen

that makes that team work, do you think, as someone that's watched them for 20 years? They are always on. They don't seem to have an off day, you know, which is great when you're meeting people who will have never met you before. And you have to, you have a very small amount of time with these people you meet on walkabouts

or in meet and greets or receptions, and they have an amazing ability to connect with people all over the world from different cultures very quickly. And that always makes a great photograph. The king especially, you know, has a way of doing things that work really well for photos. The queen just has an incredible smile.

And she's, you know, I've been photographing her for many years now. And so it just works very well. And you can slightly preempt what might happen in an engagement, and that's certainly helpful to kind of be in your mind, like one step ahead of what might happen. One of the things I think that comes across a lot

in your photographs is the humor between them both. You've taken some great pictures over the years that have been, you know, there's sort of big photos in your books that you've done of the Royal Family where you capture the humour between them, whether it's her cracking a joke at him or him making her laugh. Tell me a little bit about the sort of spark and humour between them because you're very good at capturing that. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. You know, they do have this amazing synergy

between them and they often find themselves in these incredible situations. I mean, only recently, we were in Samoa taking part in a traditional welcome ceremony there and to capture those moments, those moments of deep cultural kind of importance to the people they're visiting is incredibly important to both of them. And those moments aside, there's always, there's also lighthearted moments in many of these trips and things don't always go quite to plan but they always take it in this drive and I think that's kind of a real feature of how they work you know being prepared, being flexible and always being ready for the unexpected moment which often for me makes the best photographs.

We had Arthur Edwin's, one of your comrades on the podcast a few months ago and one of the things he's been doing it even longer than both of us but together practically he talked about how sometimes you know back in the day the King didn't always want to have a photograph taken but Camilla has an amazing ability to just go come on darling let's just do it and then she's great for photographers. Can you talk to me a little bit about sort of that and how she sort of lightens him a bit? Both of them work together at a time in their lives where many people have retired and it's incredible, you know, it's incredible for them both to be working now with such a high level of

energy, you know, the King up to eight engagements a day on royal tours. It's amazing. It's pretty hard to keep up with both of them at times. But I think you're right, they do have this amazing relationship and I think many married couples don't work in the same way that they do as closely as they do on a daily basis with the kind of situations they find themselves in. So to see them work so closely and so successfully together is incredible to me. And of course, the Queen is this amazing support to the King. There's been a lot of difficult times in recent years and I've actually taken some quite poignant photos of the Queen the day they came back to Buckingham Palace,

for example, after Queen Elizabeth died. There's quite a touching moment. Obviously you want people facing you normally when you're taking a photograph. And I remember the moment when they both arrived back at Buckingham Palace to see the incredible tributes that the crowds had left to Queen Elizabeth outside Buckingham Palace.

And there was huge crowds there to greet them. In fact, it was the first time I heard God save the king, which was quite surreal, exactly, apt description for me. But they were walking description for me. But they were walking away from me and I thought, you know, the moment's gone, that's done. But then the Queen put her hand on his back and you could just, it was symbolic of the support that she has offered him throughout these very difficult times. That is so clear to me what an incredible support she is for him.

He has a role that has so many pressures and she's always there, she's always got his back and that is evident in so many of these moments you see. I mean I know exactly that image you're talking about and it was a very moving and special image because you know as new king and queen as well you could sort of almost feel in that image how overwhelming it all was, not just the death of the late queen but then walking into Buckingham Palace for the first time as the new king and queen and as a support to each other. It's very hard to choose favourite photos. But are there a few other ones that stand out in terms of, just depict how well that relationship works?

Yeah, well, just thinking back to to you know, like I said today, when I was putting that compilation together for social media and going back through 20 years of traveling around the world, I think pretty much must be almost 100 countries with with this royal couple. There's just so many shoes from the moment they held the koalas in Australia. She's the giggles didn't she? She certainly got the giggles. I think they were called cow and Matilda and they had nappies on or diapers,

as maybe they say in Australia. But to have a sense of humor, I think is so important in this job. And they both do. And they both light up at moments like this. And for me as a royal photographer, these are the moments I'm looking for. They're lovely kind of candid breakout moments.

And that was a good example of one of them. But you know, there's been so many moments over the years. Were you there on their wedding day? Did you photograph them at winter? 20 years ago, I was actually a very junior photographer at Getty Images. And I think the kind of royal role hadn't quite come into fruition then.

So I was at the wedding, but I think I was sort of put on a pretty kind of mundane part of it, you know, covering an element of the route, the procession route in the car or something. So sadly, I don't have a picture on their wedding day. But you were there. That's the main thing. I was there. Yes, I was there.

And my role is kind of getting images, royal photography has kind of developed organically over the years. My relationship with both of them has developed over the years. So yeah, it but it was you're right. It was special to be there in the midst of time. But you know, the more I thought about staying the significance of taking that photo for their 20th anniversary, and the fact I have been there for so long, so many of these visits kind of only really dawned on me today when I was thinking about

and going back through all these incredible travels and, and you know, also historic moments domestically, you know, royal weddings, christening's, Jubilees, you know, Queen Elizabeth, like all of those, all of those incredible times that you've been there for as well. And you've witnessed so many of them is it's been very special. I did an amazing project actually behind the scenes for King Charles's 70th birthday and that to this day remains one of my favorite photographic projects. You can see those images because we use these images in a feature that you and I worked on together for the Sunday Times magazine. Exactly. So, oh, that's a very, very loud motorbike going past. They are wonderful and we use them,

we use them beautifully in the Sunday Times magazine. But tell me why that was one of your favorite shoots that you've done, projects you've done with then the Prince of Wales and now the King. Because they were quite relaxed. Yeah, exactly. And I suppose my goal as a royal photographer is to try and capture the real side of the royals,

as well as, of course, the formal side that we see daily and we know the royals for. But it's that combination of the candid moments and the formal moments to give the kind of the viewer, the reader, the most all encompassing image of their character possible. And this was very special because I felt it gave an insight, gave the reader an insight into the real Prince Charles as he was then, now King Charles. Anything from feeding his Maran chickens in High Grave Gardens to driving his Aston Martin that runs on cheese and wine. Yes. To what else did we do? Oh the Royal Train. Love the Royal Train. Yes we had him at work on the Royal Train. Interesting decor on the Royal Train. We had the grandpa Wales photos with

with his young grandchildren. Yes and that project kind of culminated in that moment, that family picture and obviously capturing family moments is a huge privilege as a royal photographer and even more so anything involving the children, amazing, just very, very special moments, which I look back on very fondly. And in terms of the evolution of, I mean, you've sort of seen that 20 year marriage develop and evolve and go from, you know, the moment that Kamina joined the royal family to obviously being crowned queen. Have you seen a sort of, how would you describe the evolution of it?

Has she grown in confidence? Does he give her confidence? Does she give him confidence? How does, what's your observation of that? Clearly very happy marriage. I suppose, thinking to this question, I had firsthand insight into this moment, you know, as I stood behind the new king and queen

on the coronation day, looking out at the thousands of people in the mall, as they waved to the crowd with their crowns on to capture that moment, you know, will probably highlight my career for me as a royal photographer was to be there for that moment, you know, another, well, probably a highlight of my career for me as a royal photographer was to be there for that moment, having documented their lives up until that point. And I think it really gave me an insight into, you know, the support that she gives the king and the importance of her role for him to enable him to do his

job. And of course she does an incredible job as well. And let's not forget all the amazing work she's done. And actually recently it was very special to see the King supporting her. We were together, weren't we, at that engagement? Again, we were, Roy. At the Queen's Reading Room Medal launch at Clarence House. And for the King to come down, to be there, such a-

He didn't need to be, did he? Didn't need to be. But yeah, he is a huge support to her. It's a symbiotic relationship, you know, it's marriage. It's not your normal marriage. It's an incredible kind of historic partnership and they work well together and see that first. And I think working well together is very important

because they also spend a little bit of time apart. Yeah. You know, the queen has her own space as well. Ray Mill. And the king has Highgrave, obviously. And so I think that's important, you know, to have that. And that's important to their relationship and how they work well, why they work well together.

Have a little bit of space as well as working together. That image that you just touched on earlier, I'm sure a lot of our listeners will be very aware of it. It was the incredible, we're not, we rarely get to use the word iconic, but I'm gonna break the rules here and I'm gonna call it an iconic image because the photo that you took of the sort of silhouette

of the king and queen with their crowns on, looking out of the balcony, down the mall, just after the coronation as all the crowds were in front of them is quite an image. And at one point, I think I'm actually thinking the official royal Family social media feeds had that photo on as their sort of main thing. I mean, in terms of sort of the emotion of that day,

can you, what was that like? I mean, cause that was quite a moment to be asked to come behind the scenes and do that and see, you know, see that. Yeah, well, it is one way to kind of get about a thousand messages from people you haven't seen for 20 years, as they also we pop up behind the King and Queen. And I think because, you know, things like that, you're always thinking about the photography and making sure you don't mess it up.

Yeah. And you're very much focused on the technicalities of these things. So the enormity of the history and the moment that you're essentially in doesn't really dawn on you until after the moment. And that was certainly a good example of that because whilst I thought through how to achieve a particular shot, I hadn't really thought through everything behind it.

The pressure. Yeah. That's probably a good thing. It was a kind of surreal day. I mean, we use this word surreal a lot, don't we? You're thinking about the images. I was thinking about what I was surreal a lot, don't we? For so many of these moments. You're thinking about the images, I was thinking about what I was gonna write

on the front page. You're thinking about what's the iconic pictures to go with all the coverage. Yeah, and then I just got so many messages from different people because it was actually quite funny that we have an incredible photographer at Getty Images, Chris Furlong, he's a news photographer. He was on the QVM, the Queen Victoria Memorial.

Which is right in front of the palace balcony. And whilst I was trying my absolute hardest to not appear in my colleagues photographs, there was a couple of moments where I had to get the right perspective, which was a slight downward angle to get the crowds in. And yes, he did capture me doing what was essentially a kind of Hail Mary with my camera, which I'm not entirely disappointed about because looking back now, because I managed to get out of not being in anyone's pictures too much and capture the image that we needed.

And also that's quite a fun memento to have. It's a great, it's great seeing you pop up. So yeah, incredible, incredible historic time, incredible day. And just great to see that after everything I've been through documenting their lives up until that point. Amazing. Tell us a little bit about how you came into this job.

Because I remember, you've been doing it longer than me, but I remember us both being sort of starting out on the Royal Beat properly kind of together. Tell me how that kind of journey evolved at Getty to becoming the senior royal photographer and I'm not going to puff you up too much by saying you are often the photographer that members of the royal family ask for for landmark moments. Yeah, I think I'm not entirely sure. I'd call it an organic process. An organic evolution. That's a weird word I use a lot. But I think, you

know, I was always passionate about the photography, the creativity. I mean, photography was something that was always appealing to me. Even I did a physiology degree at university, a science degree. Natural segue. Yeah, natural. But actually, you say that, but during my time at university, I cleared out my cellar to create a dark room. We spent a lot of hours, my flatmates saw it, I was very weird, developing photos down there. So I've done my kind of analog journey

before I picked up the digital camera. But I really enjoyed it and I love the creativity, but above all, I loved the working with people. Bit of a cliche, but it's true. And again, above that, the privilege of travel. When I was a young photographer to go, I was sent away on a couple of royal visits

and I thought, wow, this is incredible. What a privilege to go to these amazing places and to do something you loved. And also I realized that you're building up something, you're building up a library, you're building up these historic moments to create something in the same genre of photography. And I suppose every day, you never know what to expect

on a royal engagement. You know, you're adding value to your archive, you know, not monetary value, but just you're adding, you know, it's kind of like, it's a very emotional thing if I can explain, you know, every day you're there covering a royal engagement, you always feel it's a day where you fulfilled something because you've documented this.

You never quite know what to expect. I remember photographing Queen Elizabeth and it could be seemingly the most day-to-day royal engagement, but if the light fell in the right way and you had a great background, a lovely expression, you could essentially get, you could use the word iconic, but there's been shots which I've been fortunate enough

to take on day-to-day role engagements that have been used and used and used again in the Royal Archive. And you never quite know what to expect. And it's that anticipation of the unknown for a royal photographer kind of drives you onto the next engagement. And I love that, you always get addicted to it.

It's just so exciting. And, you know, another cliche, but having a front row seat to these historic moments, royal births, it's just amazing like the the royal wedding and Westminster Abbey I will never forget the moment the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge stepped out onto the front steps and billions of people essentially were watching that moment around the world. Exciting, exciting as just you know a small bit of creativity, maybe sacrifice, working with quite structured situations,

but I've been very lucky to work with a lot of royal charities over the years, some of the younger members of the royal family. And yeah, I've kind of fulfilled the more sort of creative side of photography by getting stuck into some other things that are essentially still royal related, which has again been amazing.

So, yeah. And to bring you back to today, a very special day, the 20th anniversary of the King and Queen's marriage. Tell me a little bit about just finally what you photographed today and your sort of takeaways from the images that you've got today. Because obviously it's sort of like a kind of full circle moment. Yeah, it really is a full circle moment. I think, you know, we've seen a historic moment in Rome.

I mean, it's the 18th time King Charles has visited Italy. It's clearly, listen to him talk today in the Italian parliament. It's clearly somewhere that really resonates with him and means a lot to him. And somewhere that Queen Camilla clearly enjoys as well. So we're going to see them at the State Banquet. I'm sure looking incredibly glamorous today. And that's always, you know, State Banquet is always an important centerpiece to any royal visit. And we're seeing, you know,

soft power in action here. So yeah, it's fantastic. It's great. There's been a real buzz around this trip, a great group of media here to cover it as well. I certainly noticed a big change when, you know, Prince Wales became King Charles, you know, definitely a sort of ramp up of interest, which is fantastic. It makes it really exciting to be on these trips and in these moments and with such wonderful people like you, Roya. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I'll let you rush off to the state banquet. Nothing says I love you darling. Happy 20 years like a state banquet. This is true. But I'm sure you'll capture some great images and we're delighted you joined us Chris. Thank you so

much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Well it was wonderful to hear from Chris Jackson reflecting on that 20-year marriage and he has seen it evolve. Next week though, we're not going to be in Rome or any other exotic location Kate, we're going to take a week off because it's Easter. It's Easter. Happy Easter. Happy Easter to all our listeners.

See you soon. See you soon.