The Royals with Roya and Kate - Charles, Elizabeth and the presidents: royals in the 'special relationship'

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

It’s been a week since King Charles’ high-stakes state visit to the US ended in diplomatic triumph. After months of difficult headlines for the royals and the US-UK relationship, many applauded the King for steadying the ship. But what does this moment tell us about the current state of the special relationship? And how does it compare to historical ups and downs? In a final dispatch from Washington, Roya Nikkhah and Kate Mansey are joined by Susan Page, Washington bureau chief of USA Today and author of the new book, The Queen and Her Presidents: The Hidden Hand That Shaped History. Queen Elizabeth II met with thirteen sitting US presidents, more than any other head of state in history. Page talks us through the highs and lows of the special relationship during her reign, and discusses the role a monarch can play to keep important relationships on side. Purchase Susan's book, The Queen and Her Presidents: The Hidden Hand That Shaped History.Get in touch: [e-mail]: GettyProducer: Robert Wallace, Natalie KtenaExecutive Producer: Priyanka DeladiaRead more: King Charles flattered and chided Trump. The president loved it. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to a special episode of the Royals in America, the podcast where we tell you what happens behind palace walls and why it matters. I'm Kate Manzi and I'm Royne Carr. This week we're bringing you one last dispatch from Washington where the king and queen were on a very high-stakes, diplomatically sensitive visit to the United States to see Donald Trump. Because while the visit was full of pomp and pageantry, it unfolded amid a more complicated, let's say,

of conflict with the Middle East, disagreements between two countries and questions over how special that special relationship really is. So this week we're zooming out to ask a bigger question. What is the state of that special relationship now? And what role do monarchs play in relationships between presidents and prime ministers? And can royal diplomacy really fill that gap in between?

Well, we're delighted today to be joined by Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief of USA Today and author of a brilliant new book called The Queen and Her Presidents. Welcome to the royal season. It's such a delight to be with you and welcome to Washington. Thank you very much.

We're loving being here. It's a lively visit already. Do you think that's a good vibe about this visit? Are Americans pleased and excited to see the King and Queen? Americans love British royalty. I mean, despite the whole Revolutionary War thing, there is no hard feelings on this side. We have celebrities.

We don't have royalty. Yeah. So the Queen had a special appeal to Americans. I mean, her personal history was part of that from World War, too, but also just the fact that, you know, presidents come and go, but the monarchy is a thousand years old now, the British monarchy more than that, and has, by the way, the best jewelry. Got to love the royal bling.

Yes. Well, Camilla was wearing a very diamond diplomatic nod, wasn't she? The Union and Stars and Strike flag, which was presented to. the late queen in 1957. Oh, that's lovely. Very important visit. And that 1957 visit was a parallel to, I think, the situation now. It was in the wake of the Suez crisis.

In 1956, the special relationship was damaged. And the queen came over her first trip to Washington after being crowned, charmed Eisenhower. Didn't debate Suez. That wasn't her role. But talked to him about Sputnik. They shared fond memories of. when he was the general in World War II in London. And when she left, relations were suddenly

much better between the two countries. You've written a book all about this, all about the monarchy and the presidents. You've covered seven administrations, I think. Eight, eight during your career. And you interviewed ten presidents for the book. Now, unlike the Queen, only seven of my presidents were sitting presidents. They were presidents when I interviewed them. Three of them had left office. But she met with 13 sitting presidents more than any other person of any nationality and a record that I think is unlikely to ever be broken. She has the person who met the most U.S. presidents ever. Ever.

Yeah. And 13 of them in office and two others, Hoover who had long left office and LBJ who hadn't yet won it. So what drew you to the story? What was the germ of the idea for the book? Because through it, you tell a story of the monarchy, but you tell a story of the presidents as well. So I'd covered presidents.

I've covered 12 presidential campaigns here and covered the White House for many years. So I knew the presidential side of it, but I'd never paid, frankly, all that much attention to the royal family. But when she died and I was reading the obituaries about her remarkable life, they all said, and she met with 13 sitting American presidents, period. And I thought, period, well, what happened? Did she meet with 13 sitting American presidents and they just had chit-chat and toasts? Or did something happen that was important? And I actually, it was an observation by President Clinton that made me think there was more to this story.

Because Clinton said in his memoir that after he met the queen for the first time at a D-Day commemoration, that if not for the circumstances of her birth, she could have been a diplomat or a politician, but because she was born into royalty, she had to be both without seeming to be either. And that still, to this day after doing three years of research on the book, seems to me the perfect description of what she did and why it mattered. And a lot of them didn't know what she thought of any of them. But interestingly, Trump was very sure that he was the favorite. You know, this is so funny.

Because in the book, I mean, you exemplify the fact that she didn't give too much away because he thought he was the favorite. But on another interview you did, you found out that, in fact, she had said at one point, why are people in America voting for this man? What was the truth there? I'm sure every president wondered who her favorite president was. But I bet none of them but Trump dared to ask her. And he did.

He pressed her on it at their state dinner in 2019. Which one was your favorite? Was it Reagan? And he said that she wouldn't answer. She said, oh, all of them are wonderful. Oh, he said, who's your favorite prime minister? Oh, I couldn't say. Wasn't it Winston Churchill?

No, they were all great. So at this dinner, he told me he was very impressed by her ability to dodge a question. But he told me then that afterwards that she didn't tell him this, but he was led to understand that she did have a favorite president and it was him. But I think one thing does seem to be clear from the book and from what we know is that he is the president who love the royal family the most. Because you had Biden who was pretty lukewarm, Clinton in between. You had the great friendship that the queen had with the Bushes and then the second Bush dinners. And with Obama and with Reagan. I mean, the idea that she liked all the presidents, that's not true.

We know how much she liked Reagan and how much she liked Obama, to everyone's surprise, and how much she didn't like Jimmy Carter. Why was that? Well, Jimmy Carter made his first foreign trip there, and it was a big dinner with some other foreign leaders. And he was very new to office. And, you know, he was kind of new to this level of political life. And the dinner ends, and he's saying goodbye to the Queen Mother, and he leans in to kiss her on the cheek, which is, as you know, not done. She turns her head and he kisses her on the lips. Oh, dear. Yes, that was her reaction.

Oh, that was. And he later denied this, denied that it had happened, said it was the press made it up. But I interviewed his protocol chief, who was standing next to him, said he did indeed kiss her on the lips. She was taken aback. That she was. She never forgot. She used to give an anti-toast. Have you heard about these?

No. Where she would be at a private dinner. Instead of a toast of someone you like, it's a toast against someone you don't like. And she gave anti-toast to Ediamine and to a leading anti-monarchist in the parliament. I forget his name. And to Jimmy Carter. Wow. So he really marked his card there.

And guess what? Never got invited back. Funny that. Unlike Donald Trump, who keeps being invited back to the UK. No smarter move by Kier Starrmer and the King than inviting President Trump back for another state visit. It meant so much to him. And yet it hasn't really played out very well for the UK, has it? Well, it depends.

How bad could things be? I think a lot of question marks over what the UK has got out of that. He's a very divisive figure back home for a lot of Britons. Here too. And, of course, in America, you know, he's a tricky character to handle. In terms of this being a very diplomatically sensitive trip, which it is, we're so much. much hanging over it. You know, we have the conflict in Iran, which the UK has taken a sort of different stance on. We have the whole issue over, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, victims, former

Prince Andrew, Congress, all of that, the Epstein files. What does the king coming here, having this first state visit of Donald Trump's, I don't want to say rain, but he might say it like that term. What does it mean to the president to have the king here, do you think? Oh, it's a delight to the president. It's an affirmation of his own stance. It's very important to him. You know, the first time he met then Prince Charles, he thought he was very boring and said he only wanted to talk about climate change. Not Donald Trump's favorite subjects. No, but the king used that royal magic on Trump, and Trump now speaks of him in the warmest terms.

And, you know, the special relationship is in real trouble now. I don't know that the special relationship has been so damaged since we started thinking we had a special relationship. worse than Suez. It's worse even than Suez. I do. It's worse than the disputes over Northern Ireland. So, you know, because you have the differences over the war in Iran, you have the continued trade wars, you've got the debate over the future of NATO and the U.S. role in NATO and the U.S. role

in protecting Europe. So, yes, I think the special relationship is in trouble. But I still think the visit of the king and the president's high regard for British royalty does Great Britain some good. You know what it does? It doesn't solve today's problems. It doesn't even address today's problems. I'm sure they're not going to talk about some of these issues that are so important. But it emphasizes the length and the strength of the relationship between the two countries and it encourages both sides to try to take a long view with the idea that trouble now, but it's worth working through it so we preserve some of it for the future.

You mentioned that the Queen was an absolute master of not really letting presidents know what she thought of them, not really letting anyone know who was her favourite. The king, a lot of people didn't think that, you know, the king would be able to get along with Donald Trump. We caught him the climate change king. We know that Donald Trump is a bit of a climate change denial. There are so many things I agree on. Of course, we heard the king in his address to Congress talking about championing the importance of NATO. We know that Donald Trump is constantly questioning the importance of NATO. In terms of managing that relationship, How much do you think Charles has learned from, A, his own world experience,

and B, from the way his mother extraordinarily managed so many relationships with presidents? So you would know this better than I do, but here's my perception from across an ocean, and that is that King Charles is different from Prince Charles, and that Prince Charles was willing to be the climate change champion, regardless, because it's a cause he believes in so much. But King Charles has a different role and a different obligation, and he has inherited his mother's obligation. which is stay close to the Americans,

keep the special relationship alive, do what you can. And it seems to me he has done that in a pretty sure-footed way. But I think that's it, isn't it? It's that kind of stabilizing force. Can you tell us some examples that you found in your books who are speaking to presidents, of points at which the queen sort of stepped in, if you like, and became that kind of stabilizing force?

You know, we think of moments where, for example, Thatcher and Reagan, when they fell out over the invasion of Grenada, and then the queen sort of managed to kind of paper over the cracks, didn't she? She became the bridge. What did you find in the research for your book? For instance, just on the invasion of Grenada, she told Reagan. Thatcher was very angry that the United States had gone ahead and invaded this Commonwealth country without giving her much of a heads up.

And Reagan, you know, I interviewed James Baker, who was a top aide to Reagan, who said that Reagan had been disappointed that Thatcher, didn't kind of give him the benefit of the doubt on this. And she didn't. You know, she could be pretty fierce. But the queen told Reagan that she didn't mind the invasion, that it turned out pretty well, reestablished a democracy. She gave him a pass, but with the idea of don't tell Margaret that I've told you this. So that was completely charming to Reagan. And, you know, just thinking one other example with Reagan, the United States did not immediately come down on Britain's side in the Falklands War. It was not a game.

guarantee that the United States would take Britain's side on that. But they arranged that iconic horseback ride at Windsor Park and it pressed the issue. It didn't say, it's like, horse riding alongside the queen. It was the picture that went around the world, wasn't it? I covered that trip. I was a White House correspondent for Newsday then. We went to see the Pope. He had a NATO summit. I mean, that trip was jam-packed. But what Reagan cared about first and foremost was the horseback ride was the queen. And it's not that they traded position on the Falklands for the horseback ride. But it was a factor in White House deliberations about we need to take a position on the

Falklands war before the horseback ride. And Reagan did not come down clearly on the side of Britain in the Falklands until the afternoon of the horseback ride. Oh, so that's what swung it for him. So much diplomatic mastery from the saddles. It facilitated the U.S. coming around to the British position. And now look where we are with a leaked memo. questioning the UK sovereignty of the Falkland Islands

from the American administration which has incensed Gia Stama and inflamed that relationship even more. So... Get them both on a horse. So, you know, maybe the special relationship doesn't survive. I mean, I think it survives now. It survives with American's affection

for Great Britain and Americans' regard for things British and American's assumption that anyone with the British accent is a little smarter than they are. We'll take it. But in political terms, it's in pretty sad shape.

And, you know, alliances and world orders don't last forever. This world order has lasted since the end of World War II. When Trump leaves office, maybe we'll be in a different place. But there is a power and affection for Great Britain that Americans, I think, have with no other country. Coming up, how does a special relationship really work? We'll be back with Susan Page after this. What surprised me about the book, I think, was some of the relationships that were so close to the late queen that you didn't really expect to be, perhaps.

So there was a really strong, genuine friendship with the Bush family and then also the Obamas, which I think people were nervous about initially. You know, would Obama, would he get on with the Queen? You know, the Bush is, that's not a surprise. They're an old blind American family. Barbara Bush had ancestors who came over on the Mayflower. George H.W. Bush had been ambassador to the United Nations. We would expect them to have a friendly relationship. But then George W. comes in wearing a pair of cowboy boots the first time he meets the Queen.

Yes, that's right. She probably loved that. You know, I think it's because he was at that point the smart-allarchy manager of a baseball team that he could wear cowboy boots and they would both think it was funny. You couldn't maybe do that if you were meeting her as president for the first time. But, you know, the Obamas are so interesting. there was concern on both sides that they were just not going to get on. Why?

I mean, there were different generations. He had a kind of Pacific focus. He had been born in Hawaii. He spent part of his childhood in Indonesia. Thought U.S. policy was too Eurocentric, needed to pay more attention to Asia. Also, it was the Queen's government that had imprisoned his grandfather in Kenya on bogus charges of treason.

Didn't he have Japan as his first inward visit, not the UK? So there was not. the assumption that they were going to get on. And there was concern that maybe they just didn't have anything in common. And how wrong that was because there was just this immediate connection between them that you could see in the body language from their first visit and from Michelle Obama putting her hand on the queen's shoulder and the queen putting her hand on Michelle Obama's waist.

There was a wonderfully rare informality there, wasn't there, between the Green. The British coverage of that acted like she had been assaulted. It was like to say Michelle Obama. Right. It was like, oh my. And I think the queen thought, what are they worried about? They just got, all four of them got along. And even the queen sort of drive them around, wouldn't she, in Windsor, when they came for a more informal?

Well, that was the Prince Philip did. To the great consternation of the Secret Service, there were weeks of debate. And the queen insisted that it was her house. They were hosting. And Prince Philip, who was then in his 90s, was going to drive. Obama had not been in a vehicle driven by anyone but a Secret Service agent since the first campaign he was in. And the White House finally gave in because the Queen was relentless about it.

But they were, no offense, apparently Prince Philip, not the best driver in his 90s. I mean, you know, you put your finger on it right there because people did tend to give in to the Queen when she wanted to make a point of something whether that was about. She loved driving. She was a real petrol head. You know, the other thing about Obama, who I covered, of course, through his campaigns and his presidency, He does not give false flattery. Unlike everyone else you'll meet in Washington,

he does not give false praise. But when he was delivering Shimon Perez's eulogy, he said in language that the speechwriter, Ben Rhodes told me that Obama himself inserted in the speech, he said he had met three giants of the 20th century, Shimon Peres, Nelson Mandela, and Queen Elizabeth. We have just been marking what would have been the Queen's 100th, the centenary of her birth,

and Obama gave a lovely tribute to her and talked about the fact that every time he had a conversation with her he noticed how warm it was always but he was always struck by her link with history and her wealth of experience on so many sort of matters

and he gave an incredibly fond recollection of their relationship and it sort of sounded when he was talking about her how much he learnt from her this two-term president he loved sitting down and talking to her just to kind of understand her worldview

and her world vision Think about, you know, she had a longer perspective than anyone else on the planet when it comes to foreign relations. She was being groomed for this role since she was 10 years old. You know, and her parents, her wonderful parents, really, they come across so well, the more you read about them. Her wonderful parents, you know, took care that she even as a tween, she was sitting at state dinners, meeting with ambassadors, seated next to Joe Kennedy, then the U.S. ambassador to Great Britain. And so she did this for even more years than her 70-year reign. And through that time, she paid attention.

She remembered what she learned. She had a longer perspective on the post-World War II intelligence than anyone else did because she was there for so long. So, yes, I think that Obama and Clinton and others found her quite remarkable. You talked about the importance of the royal family in coming to the rescue maybe of the special relationship, whether or not that special relationship survives beyond Donald Trump's few. of his relationship with the royal family, which we know is always going to stay very warm and adoring one way to the other way. We've had a really interesting question in from a listener, E. Teresa Tuey, who has made the point that there is a huge fascination, as you mentioned, from people in America. A lot of Americans are very into our royal family and love hearing all the news.

But there is also a strong amount of scepticism because there is a feeling that in a republic, monarchy can seem a little bit out of touch. We're here obviously celebrating the Declaration of Independence from the UK and the monarchy. In a younger environment, more anti-establishment people in America, do you think royal diplomacy lands slightly differently now than it did in the age of Elizabeth the Great? Well, first of all, we don't want a monarchy here, despite our fascination. We don't want the borrowed monarchy, the distant monarchy, the ex-monarchy by our side. But I do think that the institutions that Queen Elizabeth wanted to protect so much, they're all in. under fire. The monarchy has problems. You know, the situation with the prince formerly, Andrew,

you know. Former Prince Andrew. Former Prince Andrew. Yes, it's former. It's Prince. Yes, exactly. That seemed wrong. And we know the damage that has done in both capitals. We see the damage and tumult around the U.S. presidency, like nothing I've seen in the years and decades that I've been covering the White House. We see the tension and kind of fraught nature of the special relationship that meant so much to her. All of this, I think, is in a moment of peril. And looking ahead to the next generation, I think that's the thing with Trump, that Trump might be in office one day and not the next. So Kirstama, UK Prime Minister, might be in office one day and not the next. But you look ahead and you see this huge dynasty coming down the line.

Now, Trump's been very, very enthusiastic about his love of handsome Prince William. He's called his wife, Catherine, beautiful, radiant, so healthy. So we see that kind of relationship continuing. What do you think it would mean if William and Catherine were to come for Independence Day and the World Cup that happens this summer? I mean, how would Americans react to that? Are they thinking about that? There's a lot of speculation that Trump's going to invite them. Oh, well, I'm sure he would invite them.

I'm sure we would love that. You should tell them to come. We'll pass that on, shall we? They're pretty popular here, right? They're very popular here. And they're a young, vibrant family. with little children, adorable children. And yes, they would be entirely welcomed here, 100%.

Very different views sometimes from Donald Trump towards the other members of the family, the other brother. Yes. Not so keen on that. No, and he talked to the queen about that. Can you imagine? But she insisted that there was no problem and everyone was wonderful. And he said that Harry had caused her a lot of pain.

Yes, exactly. I mean, he really does go off peace sometimes. He's very cross about that. He seemed to take Harry's exit from the royal family almost personally. Yes, he thought it was an affront to the queen and she shouldn't have been treated that way. You know, the thing about Trump, if you ask him a question, he will tell you what he thinks. I suppose as a journalist, that's quite refreshing.

I am 100% in favor of that. For better or worse, you know what he's thinking. And we do know that he likes the royal family and has been thrilled to have this state visit. What do you think it means, are we seeing a morphing into a new special relationship? What's the outcome of this now, do you think? Where are we now? I think we have a special relationship that's under fire. And there'll be always something special about this relationship. we have with this shared history. But whether it will be the kind of alliance that it's been since World War II, where we are best friends in the world and even on something like Iraq, we will stand

together, even perhaps when it seems like not the wise thing to do. I'm not sure that that's going to continue. We've seen how angry President Trump has been by Britain's refusal to be involved in the offensive operations in the war in Iran. That's a sign of a special relationship that's undergoing some change. We know what the UK government perhaps hopes to get out of it. What will Trump get out of this? You know, Trump is having his troubles here. He's engaged in a war in Iran that is unpopular with Americans.

He has great concerns about what's happening with inflation, the price of gas and groceries and health care. His approval rating is not healthy, and his disapproval rating has gotten higher. His party is facing a really difficult midterm election in November where they almost certainly would, loose control of the House, and it's possible that the loose control of the Senate, which we didn't think was possible six months ago. So the King's visit gives him a chance to be at a beautiful

big state dinner and be toasted by one of the most famous people in the world from a family he has long adored. So he's hoping for a little bit of a royal bounce from this trip. He's not the first president to hope a little royal magic will rub off on him. Susan, thank you so much for joining us on the Royals. It's been fascinating to your insights on this historic, lively state visit. Yes, it's been my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. And just to everybody listening, you can read Susan Page's book because it's out now,

the Queen and her Presidents, and it is a really great read. Oh, so kind. Thank you. And thank you too for joining us for our coverage here in America this week on the Royals. And we'll be back next week and we'll be keeping. keeping a close eye on whether the king has been able to bridge that gap between the UK and the US governments. And if you've enjoyed it, please do subscribe to the Royals, wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Until then, thank you for joining us and we'll see you next week.