The Royals with Roya and Kate - Ciao Kate! The Princess of Wales’s Italian job

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Following the King’s diplomatic success during his state visit to the US, the Princess of Wales stepped back onto the international stage with a visit to the Italian city of Reggio Emilia. Four years on from her last official overseas visit, aides say the Princess is “taking it up a gear” as she resumes foreign travel following her cancer treatment. Kate Mansey and Roya Nikkhah are in Italy with the latest from the Princess’ milestone trip. What does her star power abroad reveal about the royal family’s enduring international appeal? And what more can we expect from the Princess on the world stage in the year ahead? They also speak to Trudi Seneviratne, a consultant psychiatrist who has worked alongside the Princess on her Early Years initiative since 2017 to find out the inspiration behind Catherine’s passion for the project and what the Princess is really like to work with behind the scenes.Get in touch: [e-mail]: GettyProducer: Natalie KtenaExecutive Producer: Priyanka Deladia Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals, the podcast, where we give you insight into what happens behind palace walls and why it matters. I'm Kate Manzi. And I'm Boenica. Today we're joining you from Italy, where the Princess of Wales is making her first international trip since her cancer diagnosis in 2024. And we're coming to you from Reggio Emilia, a city in northern Italy, which is renowned not just for its cheese, but also for its world. famous education approach. And it's a cause that has interested the princess and one that the palace believes is her life's work. We've been watching the princess make a gradual return to royal duties over the last year and a half. So is this trip a milestone signifying her full return

to official work? Now it comes off the back of a successful diplomatic visit by the king and queen to the US. This is new territory for the Princess of Wales. So after months of bad headlines But the Royal family is Kate's trip another signal that it's back to business as usual for the Windsors. Well, we're going to be talking to someone who works very closely with Catherine on her early childhood project and lots more topics. But first, Roya, we're recording here in Italy after a day of engagements for the Princess of Wales. Now she's returning to the spotlight of international travel for the first time in four years. how significant is it do you think, Roya, that she's chosen this as her first,

dipping her toe back into international endeavours. Very, I think. You know, just from talking to people around her who've been working with her on this visit, I think the fact that she is here on her own for two days, getting stuck into sort of academic learning, but also meeting people on the ground, going and seeing this early as work out in the field with children,

I think it gives you an indication, as they say, that she's stepping up a gear. That was the language you used, wasn't it, yesterday, just ahead of her arriving in Reggio Amelia. It's her taking it to the next level. But I thought what was really interesting as well was hearing more from her team about the new focus. So, you know, I think we've heard quite a lot from Catherine over the last six months to a year in her own words. And some of those videos she's done focusing on nature about how she has reconnected with certain things during her recovery. and as she continues to recover. What is interesting, I think, to see played out as her new focus on bits of her work.

And I think with this trip, you really see the sort of laser focus of what she wants to focus on. And it's this. And the fact that I think she's going global with it, the global mission, as her team keeps saying, we are likely to see more of these trips from her in the coming months. So I think it is really significant and I think it's a welcome return to the international stage if the reception today was anything to go by because it was pretty huge crowds, wasn't it? Well, that's right. I think you can always tell with the palace, can you?

When they know something's important and they want to give it kind of big licks in the press that, you know, we had this briefing and they were sort of saying it's a first step of their global mission. It's a huge moment, they said. And they rarely talk about her cancer diagnosis and her treatment in 2024. But this was all clear that this was all part of her recovery. And it was really the first indication, I think, we've had for months that that's all going in the right direction. I mean, obviously we've seen her on engagements in the UK and she's seen well, but the fact that she's doing this now, you know, they're saying that she's got this kind of renewed sense of vigour.

And as she said herself in previous videos about her illness, that something like a cancer diagnosis just renews your sense of purpose, I suppose, and makes you question what's important. So the answer seems to be getting back to work that this is really what's important. But like you say, those crowds, I'm not sure I expected them to be. I mean, the mayor's office reckoned it was 3,000 people. I mean, it was pretty good.

I mean, there were shouts. She looked very touched, didn't she? She did. She looked thrilled. There were shouts of bellissimo and Kate, Kate. There's a lot of Princeza are everywhere, isn't there? There are lots of course, people hanging out at the windows in that square where she arrived outside the town hall. We looked around and all the windows on all four sides of the square.

People were hanging out just to see her and calling out Principesa. And it was kind of lovely. There was a priest up on a kind of. her top balcony with his dog colour still on. And he was standing next to a police sniper who had like a black balaclava. And they were under this big statue of the Virgin Mary. They were just looking down. I thought, you couldn't get a royal visit to look more Italian than that.

You know, she said to the mayor, didn't she? Thank you for a warm welcome. And they've given her a special award, a special flag, which is the highest honour you can bestow in Reggio, Amelia. We had a little bit of an echo of when we went to Ravenna with the King and Queen because then every. throughout that trip to Roman Revenna was calling out Carlo Carlo

and today she introduced herself with a few words of Italian and called herself Katerina, didn't she? She should always speak a little bit of Italian to the children and she said Sonor Katerina and brushing up on her duolingo like William and his Welsh. Yes, yeah. Yeah, I would say she'd probably

done more homework on her Italian than perhaps Williams-Darland as well. Well, she's got a personal connection, hasn't she, to Italy as a country as well? She spent part of her gap here, didn't she? school and going to St Andrews University where of course she met William. She came to Florence for a few months

and did an art history course. But we heard she was reminiscing about some of her very far memories of her time here during her gap year with her children and her family before she came out and is looking forward to kind of telling them more about this trip when she goes back.

I came out to Italy on my gut year and did a history of art course. I tempted Italian lessons. I didn't get very far. I wonder if she started her Italian back then and there's just done a bit of brushing up. But she's clearly very happy to be back and loves the country.

She had a sneaky head start, you mean? She probably would have a sneaky head start, but, you know. But she's got very many happy memories of that time. And though coming back in an official capacity is quite different thing. But I think she's thrown herself into it. And the welcome's been fantastic. It's just a short visit. It's only two days.

But all the indications, like you say, are there that this is the first step in what's going to be this kind of global mission. The reason she's here, we should explain why she's here, because Reggio Amelia is world-renowned. recognized around the world as a sort of centre in a hub for a pioneering approach to focusing on early childhood in those first five years. And there is a centre here which she visited today named after the founder of that approach. And she came to meet practitioners who are involved in the work, who work from that centre, who engage with children. Children come to that centre and engagement, all sorts of interesting, creative things like the light itelier and sensory engagement. And we heard her talking about the science.

She rolled up her sleeves of her suit and got involved in a clay workshop. What was interesting to hear from her was how she thinks it's so important that children step back a bit from the digital world. And she talked about the importance of children just slow down their lives in a fast-paced world. And I think that's something we hear from her and from William quite a lot, don't we? The fact that childhood now is very different to, you know, not so long ago. there's almost too much stimulation with social media and the impact that's having on young children. I think that's something that preoccupies had quite a lot.

Yeah, that kind of massive reduction of attention spans and things like that. And this is, you know, a chance to kind of slow down. And I suppose a lot of people who have children of nursery school age or preschool age in the UK will recognise this as sort of normal practice now. But what people don't realise is that it started here in Reggio, Amelia, after the Second World War. A lot of people got together and wanted.

to build a nursery to help children. And they focused on this kind of child-led approach, basically giving children more say over what they wanted to play with and understanding really that they're learning through play. I mean, we all sort of take this for granted now in the UK, but this is the sort of birthplace of that approach. We were told, weren't we, that this was by the British Consul in Milan, that this was a fact-finding mission for the princess.

And she said today, you know, I'm really learning a lot here. And it doesn't seem like lip service. seem true and important that that's what she's saying. But in general, it's interesting to see how popular she is in Italy, in general. She's pretty popular wherever she goes around the world, isn't she? I mean, she is, she's box office. We've never seen the Princess of Wales arrive somewhere and there not be large crowds. And actually, I do remember, it's reminding me of, oh dear, not a very happy time for Prince William when Catherine was due to have done her first ever solo overseas trip.

I think this was in 2015 when she was pregnant with Princess Charlotte and she was due to have gone to Malta on her first ever overseas solo trip and right at the last minute she was experiencing very bad morning sickness and in the end she had to pull out and they sent William instead.

And the crowds in Malta was so disappointed. It wasn't Catherine. And we arrived in Malta and I think William was meant to have been a quite fun party or wedding that weekend And so he wasn't thrilled. We got there.

And all the crowds and all the crowds and all to are going, where's Kate? Where's Kate? And, you know, she is. As you say, she's box office on the global stage. And that can only be a really, really good thing for the royal family. There was a really interesting thing that somebody said to me today. And I suppose in the UK, I don't think this is part of our day-to-day thinking around the royal family at the moment. But it still looms large in the rest of the world, which is Princess Diana.

And so much of what people were saying to me today, the local reporters were saying her style, the way she handles herself, the way she interacts with people. You know, that is very much indicative and reminds people here of the late Princess Diana. Now, it's not something that we talk about at length, really, in the UK.

I feel like she's her own Princess of Wales and she stepped into her own shoes. And we don't compare her on a regular basis to her late mother in her. But here it's really interesting. that they still do. That's still a huge part of the conversation when they're talking about Kate.

And a journalist said to me today, she's one of us. She's very normal. She approaches her work with a lot of empathy. And I thought, that's really interesting. That plays out because it's just putting it on that kind of stardust category.

But in a more stable way, in a more stable narrative. She'll be pleased with that, I think, and the fact that people do see her independent of that title. Because I remember at Rain Change, when the late Queen died, and William and Catherine were given those titles from the King.

Yeah, pretty soon. Sooner than we perhaps expected. Very soon. And there was a statement made with background guidance around it that the new Princess of Wales understood the sort of weight of that title and understood the association people had with it from William's mother, from Diana. And the guidance around it from her team was that she understood that and cherished that, but also was very keen to carve out her own role

within that title that is so for every, so associated with Diana. So I think this trip is a way of her doing that and carving out her own identity. And actually, one of the things that some people sort of say around this work is people talk about the fact that Diana as Princess of Wales picked up very controversial, unsung causes like HIV. The work she did around HIV and AIDS,

famously sitting down and holding hands with an HIV patient, which almost no one had done, a hyperfigure like that. Leprosy. This work, it's definitely a lot safer, isn't it? Does that matter, do you think? I don't think it matters. I think what she's doing is this incredible project that in some ways is kind of pioneering. And it isn't completely non-dangerous work because there are lots of questions in the briefing about, you know, does the Department of Education know about this?

It's saying that we should be doing more about early years provision, about how we look after the under fives at a time when, you know, a lot of parents don't have financial support really for much childcare. You know, she is stepping into, and they will always say she's apolitical, but it is territory that is, you know, part of the state. She's going around state preschools here. This was something that was given the backing of the principality of the area. So it's not completely safe. And I like that about it because I think she is, you know, championing research in this area.

she's commissioned important reports and these will in time all be shared with the government they'll have to be. I mean, out in the public domain. So from that perspective, I think it is. But also she is generally, she's a lot safer than the Princess of Wales. The late Princess of Wales was 25 when she was doing a lot of that work.

You know, there's no way you could accuse Kate of being a maverick. You know, she has the blessing of the king. But I think at the same time, she is shaking things up. but in quite a subtle, very, very carefully and cleverly crafted way. I think Catherine is generally seen as a safe pair of hands. Every time there's a you gov pole, she's still up there with William as the most popular member of the royal family. That is a big asset for the royal family, having been through such turbulent times. She is able to cut through some of the noise, isn't she, when there's lots of turbulence either in the middle sphere or scandal with the royal family, which we've seen plenty of.

she's able to bring a sort of attractive, safe pair of hands to the whole thing. She is. I think, and also this sense, isn't there, of the kind of, you know, boosting the royal family abroad in general. So we now know from the reaction today that the reaction the King and Queen got in Ravenna last year was not a one-off, you know, the fact that the royal family still looms large in Europe. And that's got to be a great asset for Britain in general. They'll be relieved because I think there is a fear, within the royal family and within both households

that the royal family has in the last few years from the external world and sometimes on the international stage been viewed slightly like a soap opera with the drama around Harry and Megan with the scandal around Andrew Mountbatten Windsor the Epstein Files which definitely follows a little bit to America

and I think having Catherine doing something like this which is lovely and safe but you know interesting work that's a relief for them that can be expulsion on the international stage too Now, to understand a little bit more about Catherine's work, we're joined by someone who's been working very closely with her for quite a long time on all her early childhood project work, and that is Trudy Seneviratna, who is a consultant, adult and perinatal psychiatrist. And you've been working with Catherine since around 2018. Thank you for joining us on the Royals. Welcome.

Absolutely delighted. Lovely to be here. Now, Trudy, you first met the princess, I think, back in 2018. Can you tell us a little bit about that for? first meeting and your impressions of her and why she was so interested to get stuck into this work? I actually met her when she had the very first maternal mental health roundtable that she conducted in 2017 and she brought a whole load of scientists and clinicians, practitioners together to think about the importance of mum's mental health and the impact on the baby. And on the back of that, she then came to do a visit to the mother and baby unit that I run. which is in South London.

So that was sort of the beginnings, if you like, of my meeting her all those years ago. And what was your first impression when you met her? She was absolutely lovely. I mean, she, you know, at that point, she was a young woman. She was already a mother. That was part of it, I suppose. But she was just so curious and deeply, deeply interested. And passionate already, actually, at that point.

And we're going back over 10 years now around what is it that makes us who we are? you know, who help us to become the humans that we are. And that was a brilliant thing to hear somebody like the princess ask a question about. Because for me, as a perinatal psychiatrist, it's exactly why I entered this particular branch of medicine. And I guess I was just taken away by her passion and her curiosity. One of the things, Trudy, that Catherine herself has said is that she thinks there's a bit of a misperception around why she has decided to pick up the mantle of early years, that people think because she's a parent, That's why she's interested.

But she says it's about much more than that. Can you tell us a bit more about what she has said about why she's got stuck into this work in the way that she has over the last decade? Her earliest idea is actually stemmed from visiting people in prisons, in domestic violence, refugees, where she came across people, adults, women, who had quite severe difficulties, difficult psychological issues.

They had domestic violence issues, addiction issues. And in those conversations with people, she started to see that some of the difficulties people had, the trauma they'd experience went right back to the earliest years of their life, you know, as babies and young children, the environment that they were growing up in, the difficulties that their mothers were experiencing. And she also started to recognise

that there was a transgenerational element to all of this that actually addicted mothers, for example, went on to have children who then developed addictions themselves. And so there was this horrible, cycle that kept repeating, which was hard to interrupt and change. So I think those were some of the sort of nuggets, if you like, of her thinking right at the start that she shared. Can you tell us a bit about when she asked you to join the board?

Because she decided in 2021 to set up that Royal Foundation for the Centre of Early Childhood. And that's when you came in at Windsor to really be key, key to that panel. What was that moment like? And what's it been like actually working with her on the nuts and bolts of it? It's been so wonderful working with her because she deeply and passionately cares about this. And what I found so wonderful with her is that she wants to know and she investigates some researches into the science of it, the biology of what's going on. They're also putting this all into a sort of societal, cultural context into a way that all of us can understand. So turning a complicated scientific language into something that people might be able to understand.

Is there a moment that really stands out in your memory and your working life with the Princess of Wales? It was when she came to the mother and baby unit that I work in. And at the time, she was actually pregnant with baby Louie. she was sort of I think her last trimester of that pregnancy and the moment really stuck to mind was that the unit had a sensory room and there was a mother in there with her baby crouched on the floor and she without any hesitation, you know, crouched onto the floor with her in her pregnant stays and was asking questions to the mum

who had a very traumatised background with domestic violence and she was homeless at the time. She'd been depressed. And again, the princess was asking the mum about how she was interacting with the baby and playing with the baby and how she was singing and using other creative ways of interacting with her baby, even though the mother was depressed. So, you know, that showed me again, that curiosity

and that real desire to understand what she was trying to get to the bottom of. Do you think the work in the early years cuts through to the general public, Because some, you know, there are some people that would say in a cost of living crisis, people are literally just struggling to survive and make ends meet. I think it does cut through. And I think her work is already having quite a big impact, actually. So even since the Centre launched back in 2021 campaigns like Leila's story, the claymation that was produced to describe all the ingredients that influence the child's upbringing from conception to Leila's birthday, which was five. then there's been the launch of the shaping us framework. I think that all of this is slowly going to build. I know one of the things that she says, the princess says,

is that this is important to her as, you know, thinking about the climate crisis. And in a way, this is even more important because thinking about the early years is about human beings. And actually thinking about how we support children and babies right at the start so that they have a secure start to life is just so profoundly, profoundly important.

I think just being here in Italy with her for these couple of days, Kate and I can both really see how important the work is to her and how much it means to her. And it's so great to hear from you as someone who works so closely with her why you think it matters and how you've seen it matters to her behind the scenes.

Trudy Senever Ratner, thank you so much for joining us on The Royals. Thank you. Do come back soon. It's such a pleasure. Thank you so much. We'll be right back after this break. So Trudy was interesting, wasn't she? I think it sort of plays into this idea that this has been going on behind the scenes for a long time. And we know that it's been more than a decade that Kate's been interested in this.

But those sort of little nitty-gritty kind of moments of the behind-the-scenes meetings show you that it's a real thing. It's beyond the kind of PR path, you know. Yeah. And when you talk to people like Trudy who work with her, you get an understanding of an idea of how passionate she is about it. Anyone who works with Kate will always tell you that she reads around the subject very widely. She can quite some of the science of them, you know, almost more than some of the scientists can. She really gets stuck into it. She's not just someone who's, you know, slapping her face or her name or her title on this area of work.

She cares about it. Well, I think what we've learned, you know, we keep saying it's a global mission. It's a great global. You know, we've definitely got the vibe from Kensington Palace. This is the first of hopefully several trips on this mission for Catherine. So I think we will see her abroad taking this work to other bits of all four corners of the land in the way that William does with Urshott. I think she's very keen to do that. There is a suggestion that President Trump may invite William and Catherine out to America.

He's so high on the royal fumes of the US state visit went so well for him that he's very keen to have them back out to America for the Independence Day, July 4 celebrations. I think that'll be one to watch because if President Trump does issue that invitation and I suspect he won't be able to help himself issuing that invitation, it'll be a bit of a conundrum as to whether or not the Foreign Office can persuade William and or William and Catherine to go.

The vibe I get is that William is much keener to go back to the Middle East and build more bridges there with the Gulf states who feel perhaps the UK's response around the Iran war wasn't so great and he's very keen to go back to the Gulf states in the Middle East. think and try and get some more fundraising put into Earthshot. I think he feels he's done his time with President Trump, having spent quite a lot of time with him.

Maybe there's a World Cup there, and as Charles joked when we were out there, as King of Canada, he was sort of saying, well, we're co-hosting the World Cup because, of course, Canada, Mexico and the US are all hosting games for the World Cup this summer. So, you know, let's see. But I think, you know, in general, we can see perhaps more visits like this, you know, short hops for Kate that aren't so disres. to her family life, two or three days here and there where she can go in, scoop up all the information, learn a bit more, spread this kind of what she wants to be a kind of global conversation about how we're raising children. So I think we'll see a lot more of these types of visits. That's it from us this week on The Royals from Reggio Amelia. We'll be back next week, back home from the

studios covering topics close to home. And we would love to hear your thoughts on Catherine's comeback visit. Now, you can email us at the Royals at the times.co.com. Until next week, bye-bye. All right, bye for now.