The Royals with Roya and Kate - Harry and the King - a royal reconciliation

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

It finally happened. Prince Harry’s “homecoming” brought the long-awaited reunion with his father, King Charles, their first meeting in 19 months. It caps a packed four-day visit which bore many familiar hallmarks of Harry’s former royal life. But while father and son reconnected, the “permafrost” with Prince William shows no sign of thawing, highlighting the deep rifts that remain in the royal family. The past week also had historic resonance with the passing of the Duchess of Kent, a royal “changemaker” whose Catholic funeral will mark another milestone for the monarchy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There has been only one question swirling this week, and that's been, would the King meet his son, the Duke of Sussex, while he was back in the UK for four days? Well, at around 5.20pm yesterday, that question was finally answered as Prince Harry joined the King for tea at Clarence House. It was the first time the King and Prince Harry had met since the Duke of Sussex was here after the announcement of the King's treatment for cancer 19 months ago. and comes after a week your friends need activity by the prince in his longest visit yet, certainly since the death of his grandmother, the late queen. It's been a trip filled with charity events, speeches, big splashy announcements, private moments and symbolism. But the biggest headline was always going to be a royal reunion between father and son. And it's fair to say the world's media was holding its breath, will he, won't he?

And if not now, when? And now he has. Welcome to the Royne Eka. With me, Royne Eka. And me, Kate Mansi, the Royal editors of the Times and the Sunday Times. So Kate, amidst all the drama, let's just recap. Until yesterday, Charles and Harry hadn't actually seen each other for 19 months, not since February 2024, when Harry jetted in last minute for a 30-minute meeting with his father

after he announced he was suffering from cancer. Now we finally have a royal reunion of sorts. So what do we know? What might it mean for the royal family going forwards? Well, I mean, the good thing is, I think so far we know very little because neither side have briefed it all out, which has always been the King's Hope, hasn't it? That's been one of the big, one of the big weariness red flags around a meeting.

That's right. As soon as he meets with him, will it become part of the next Netflix program? Will it become part of some big primetime television interview? But the things we do know, they had tea for 50 minutes at Clarence House. It seems like it was quite hastily arranged. Harry seemed to leave the previous event, sort of in a rush saying he had to get somewhere and then suddenly he popped up at Clarence House at a slightly random time. It lasted nearly an hour, which is almost double the last meeting.

It's a good sign. Isn't it? I was interesting Buckingham Padd was confirming eventually after we'd seen Harry go. in and come out and the palace confirming that, yes, it was a private tea between Harry and the king. But actually, just, you know, it sounds all very informal like he was dropping into see his father. But in actual fact, you know, this is months of negotiation, isn't it? This is behind the scenes Harry has, for a long time, wanted to go back and see the king. On a previous visit, he was told there wasn't time in the diary.

And there was always a sticking point that while the court case was going on, I was told that that's one of the reasons why it was so difficult for the King to meet Harry, not least because, as we discussed, all the TV drama, the worry that it might leak out. Now that's sort of in the past. It's paved the way. I thought what was fascinating yesterday was the complete marked contrast to what we heard from Harry yesterday about his father and what we heard from Harry last time about his father in May when he gave that interview to the BBC saying, my father won't speak to me

because of the security stuff I don't know how much longer he's got left he won't speak to me very ill choice of words yesterday all we heard from Harry after the meeting

when he was asked at the reception last night how's your father he said he's great thank you now that might sound insignificant to some people it's just four words

but for Harry to say something positive publicly about his father that hasn't happened for a long time and I think even in those four words he's great thank you you. I think that just goes to show how far this relationship might have moved along, even with a

50-minute meeting. And that's right. He seemed visibly relaxed after he'd met the king as well, didn't he, Harry? So he left in a black car to go on to his next engagement where he was having an Invictus moment for his Invictus Games representatives. And he was joking about, you know, being delayed in the traffic. Obviously, he doesn't have his police blue lights. It's been a theme of this week, hasn't it? no more convoyes, no more arriving on time. Yeah, welcome to our world, Harry. Yeah.

So he's having to sort of navigate this new world. It seems to me this whole trip has been him wanting to be Mr. Positive. You know, we've had so much negativity from Harry. It hasn't played well for him. Here he is, bouncing around, being joyful, saying the King's great, and he does seem to have shifted his focus. Press the reset button was sort of how I looked at it. last weekend. I mean, talking to people very close to him last week, there was very much

the mood music coming from Harry and his camp that he wanted this trip to be seen as a reset to change that negative narrative of the last two years. All the last visits for the last years have been angsty security battles, battles with your family. And I think he, you know, he might live in America, but he definitely cares what people think of him back here, not least his family, but also the public. And I think for him to be here for four days, we've seen images of him, you know, with children at the well child awards, being really jolly. playing with, you know, balloon fights with children, those lovely pictures in Nottingham, you know, with that big splashy announcement about the 1.1 million pound donation, but he's there with young people. He's talking about his, you know, that this space that Nottingham has in his heart. The vibes, the images, the narrative of this visit has been completely different to Harry back in the UK over the last five years. Completely different. Yeah. I mean, reset, it's definitely the word, isn't it? Because he's not only resetting his kind of attitude towards everything by being. more optimistic, more joyful.

But I think he's also resetting himself in the UK as a kind of roving royal. Because all the jobs that we've seen him do are echoes of the past. Yeah. Going back to what, you know, he's reminding everybody, you know, when he went to Nottingham, that was a special place in his heart because that's where him and Megan went after they got engaged. That was their first official. It's where I first met her.

He brought her over and introduced her to me. How times change. what was she like then lovely i mean he brought her over and he was like royne megan megan and wonderfully and i just said congratulations they just got engaged and we had a very brief chat and wonderfully a japanese tourist was recording it on their phone i was like i don't suppose you could send me that video which they did but you know the joy of that moment and that sort of that first trip to nottingham you're right he he definitely wanted that evoked a little bit when he went to notting him this week didn't he he wanted that kind of buzz around him that happy buzz to come

back and it was there were a hundred people there waiting for him going we love you harry there was a woman saying the man the myth the legend on her t-shirt for harry you know she was a real fan and hasn't seen that for a while in the UK well exactly so there he is in nottingham he's you know that's a success then he went to the centre for blast injuries at imperial college london now back in 2013 he opened their laboratories so again ties to the past but bringing it forward into the present day well child we know that he's had a very long association with them that was the awards ceremony in London on Monday night. I went along to that and saw him actually.

And I have to say, the thing I really noticed about him was when he arrived at the Wellchild Awards and he walked in and obviously there was a group of us there, media, photographers were outside, approved media inside. And the last few times, you know, I've seen Harry, whether that's been at a coronation or a funeral, you know, we're quite far away. We're very close on Monday. He came in and he sort of smiled. He was smiling.

He looked relaxed. he was smiling kind of with the media and that again whatever he was feeling inside he was like I'm going to put on my game face and smile at media rather than glower at them which is what we've become used to and that was a change he does give the air this week of somebody who's just had a load taken off their shoulders i tell you why i want to ask you about kate what are your views and i'm sure you have some on how his engagements which have not looked as you say dissimilar to all engagements on how they have been covered by the media in terms of

there have been select media in terms of the way you and I are part of the Royal Rota, Harry on this trip has chosen select media that he considers friendly to him to pool the material inside the engagements to the rest of the media. I think that it's been quite interesting

to see who he's chosen. Some have been quite surprising because some of the reporters have actually not done wall-to-all positive coverage. But it's interesting given Harry and Megan very clearly said they would never sort of, you know,

work with the British media in that way again. They have been on their terms. And what I was told by people close to me it was his attempt to curate the narrative around the engagements too. And I just was keen to get your thoughts on that because I think it's fascinating. Yeah, I think it is.

It's interesting. Again, it's the reset button, isn't it? It feels like it's the new Harry, but a little bit back to the old Harry. And, goodness, you know, perhaps he's seeing the benefit of the Royal Will Rotar. Imagine that. You can have an experience journalist who goes in, rather than having a whole 20-odd reporters following Iran trying to write down what you're saying, you can have

somebody who's trusted to go in and then share that material, that copy, as we call it, the words with other reporters on the outside. So it has been really interesting for me to see that they are not just kind of invoking a kind of rotor system to report on what Harry's saying, but also the fact that all the communication from his office is very much in the vein of what would have come out from the palace. So we're seeing what's called operational notes. That's very much straight out of your paybook. Straight out of the royal household central casting, isn't it?

It is. And there's probably a very good reason for that because it works. It's a very clear way of covering events and making sure that you get that kind of wall-to-wall coverage and everybody who wants that information, those pictures, those words. can get it. And it's all just part of, are we seeing a new Prince Harry? I think we have this week. And I think it's actually, well, new and improved, but a version on the old Prince Harry that people loved. It's like he sat around a boardroom table in Montecito and gone, well, why was I so popular? Oh, I was popular for this, this and this. Okay. Well, let me just go back and do that.

And that's what he actually loves to do. And you talk about, he's given this £1.1 million pound donation to children in need in Nottingham to help projects that stop youth violence. But he also then went and gave another $500,000 to help children who are being evacuated from Gaza, who have been injured in humanitarian disasters out there and Ukraine and some of that money will go towards kind of blast injuries and prosthetics for children who've lost their limbs in the war. So he's not coming over asking for anything this time. He's not asking for an apology from his father. He's not asking for the country to do something. He's come with a smile on his face and said, let me give you something. And I think it's absolutely been the right

strategy. Now on Monday, Kate, the day that he arrived and started making four days of headlines, he started the trip with a really poignant visit to his grandmother's grave, tomb at St. George's Chapel, Queen Elizabeth, the late Queen Elizabeth, of course, because he landed in the UK. on the third anniversary of her death, September the 8th. And we were told that as soon as he arrived, he went straight to Windsor to St. George's Chapel. He laid flowers and a wreath on her tomb and paid his respects privately,

which was a very poignant moment, but it also highlighted the deep rifts that are still in the family, didn't it? Because just a few miles away, there were William and Kate leaving their home on the Windsor Estate to go and do an event that you were at with the Sunningdale Women's Institute, specifically to mark and commemorate

the late Queen's death because she was very involved with the WI and very fond of the women of the WI this was supposed to have been a solo engagement for William we were told at the 11th hour Kate would be joining him too and all of us sort of had our own views on that

there's Harry coming in making the headlines and suddenly Kate joins William for a WI engagement but it did just show didn't it that even in remembering their grandmother there, that's not helping that rift. No, it's interesting to talk about the way that it's played out in the media, but there was a buzz in the room when the ladies of the W.I.,

the Women's Institute, were told that the princess would be joining William as well. And they seem very much to put on a united front there. I think, yeah, seven miles away, it was a very different story where we were told Harry was paying his respects privately by laying a wreath and flowers at the tomb of his late grandmother. So, I mean, clearly there is no communication there. There is no acceptance that, okay, well, you're doing this, I'll do that. The king this week has had a kind of private week, so he's been taking part in meetings

behind the scenes, but there have been no big public engagements. So Harry, he's not stepping on the king's toes. He's been very courteous to the king, but clearly, you know, they are worlds apart. You know, all the headlines were saying just several miles away. and you can't but help feel sorry for William this week when he's done lots of really important engagements that really, really matter to people. And yet all everyone's talking about is Haring.

I mean, I went to Cardiff with William yesterday to do what was a very poignant engagement marking world Sirius Prevention Day. He was launching a new mental health hub in Cardiff for a foundation called the Jack Lewis Foundation, which was set up in memory of a guy that took his own life age 27. And, you know, for William, that is the bread and butter work that he is doing week in, week out.

And I think he's pretty sanguine, but probably still very annoyed that he knew that that was not going to make any coverage in today's papers or yesterday's headlines. He, you know, he knew a meeting was on the cards between Harry and his father, which was going to steal the oxygen. And, you know, I think all of that is tied up in, it's not just the wounds run very deep for William in terms of the book that Harry did, the documentary, all the things that had been said about family. It's that too. It's the Harry gets to come in and spread the magic dust around and then he goes back to California, whereas William is doing the week and week out stuff. But also, I think, you know, the whole speculation and question mark around a reconciliation with William is much more unlikely or much further away than with the king. Can there really be any meaningful reconciliation or reunion in the family if William's not on board? I don't think so. He is the next king. He will, the determine quite significantly what Harry's future looks like in terms of when he comes back here. Yeah, I agree. I think what we've seen this week, you know, there has to be some sort of reconciliation with the king. There has to be some sort of offering for Harry. It's quite clear. He's made it really, really clear. He's not going away. He's not going to abandon these projects

that he still feels drawn to in the UK. So at the same time, this can't continue while William is King. So, you know, it's not a problem that William can ignore forever. And as you say, Harry wants to keep making it work for him here. And, you know, as I was told last week, he wants to keep making it work from here and come here much more. And I think, particularly now having seen the King and the path there being a little bit smoother than it was a few months ago, he will keep coming back here more. But what, you know, I was told last week was that he wants to keep coming here more and he does still want to try and bring his family. Now, we've had the whole security thing battered away by the courts and the home office

that's been through the courts. That's not going to change. I don't think anytime soon. I was told he'll keep privately lobbying the government. I suspect with what's going on with the government at the moment, re-looking at Harry's security is not going to be high on their agenda. So it begs the question, if he wants to keep coming back much more, and I suspect we will see him back more regularly now,

what's he going to do about that issue where he says he wants his children to know where he grew up? he wants his children to know their grandfather. You know, Archie and Lillivet have not seen the king for more than three years. They won't remember him in person. So how is that going to work? Because either he, you know, we've been told by Harry's team that he's aware of all the risks. He sees all the security risks that comes in. He's willing to take more of a risk by himself, but he's not willing to put his family through that.

But he says he wants them to come back with him. How's that going to work? Well, that's a good question. I mean, whether he can put in place some sort of private security that both he and Megan are happy with to get Archie and Lilibre over here but either that or he changes his tune you know we've seen

we've seen a massive key change in his tune this week he's singing a complete different song so I mean of course the big thing on the horizon is Invictus isn't it in 2020 7 and Birmingham that is what I suspect he would really want them to be back

here for with him and they'll be older then as well so it's a bit easier I think I mean fancy growing up as the Prince and Princess in Montecito knowing that King Charles III was your grandfather, but having no memory of that, that seems very sad. I'm sure it makes both sides very sad,

so we'll have to watch this space to see if there's any reconciliation between grandfather and grandchildren there. Now, I know this might seem a bit tangential to the main news about Harry meeting King Charles, but there's another screw this week, and that's the announcement of the death of the Duchess of Kent at the age of 92, And it tells you something about how the royals are changing and how some royals choose to live

their lives. And her death was announced in the traditional way with a notice pinned to the railings of Buckingham Palace. And it's fair to say she was in her own gentle, rather unique way, a pretty remarkable woman. In life and in death, she was a moderniser, a real royal changemaker. Why, Kate? You know, people say that long before Princess Stry's Anna was on the scene. It was the Duchess of Kent who was bringing a new informality to the royal family. And we'll remember her from her role at Wimbledon, where she handed out the trophies to the winners at the tennis championships every year. It was a wonderful moment when Yana Novotna suffered a defeat. And the Duchess of Kent, who's known as Catherine

Kent, put her arm around her and just gave her a hug. On another occasion, she got Martina Navaratolova. she helped her mother get a visa to come over from the Czech Republic so that she could watch her daughter play. She was extraordinary. So even when she left her royal role, retired from her royal role, she then spent 13 years working at a school in Hull in the north of England where she taught music. Mrs Kent, they called her.

Hardly any of them knew who she was, the kids, all the teachers. Yeah, no heirs and growth, no HRH, no wasn't referred to as a Duchess. What was really interesting and came out of a lot of the tributes to her in the obituary pieces last week, I think a lot of people had forgotten you. And a lot of people would think Duchess of Kent, who's that? Because she'd been not in sort of public life for so long. But so much of the narrative of the last few years has been about how difficult someone was the royal family have found royal life. And actually, you know, we were reminded that Duchess of Kent really didn't have it easy. She had moments of extreme tragedy and difficulty in her life, long periods of depression. She'd had all sorts of difficulties, personal difficulties. She had had one child that was still born, another pregnancy that had to be terminated due to medical issues. So

really, really difficult things she had to contend with while still being in the public eye. Also, she converted to Catholicism. So her funeral next week will be a very rare requiem mass rather than at Church of England's service. And the king's going, isn't he? I mean, last week we did a piece on it at the Sunday Times

and Catherine Pepinster, who is the former editor of the Catholic Weekly, said it was an enormous historical, huge step forward for relations between the Church of England and the Catholic Church, just to have the King as head of the Church of England publicly attending a service, you know, in a Catholic cathedral is huge. And I think that's a sign not only of, you know, chances of views on interfaith relations, but also how highly she was regarded in the royal family. Absolutely. So Kate, when you put this all together, reconciliations, other relationships that are still difficult and troubled, what does all this tell us about where the monarchy is right now? I mean, it's a reset for Harry and the King, definitely, a beginning of a reset in terms of the relationship with Harry and the public, the media, the royal family, but no reset with William. Where does it leave everything in terms of how the monarchy is looking? well interestingly there's a new report out today actually that says the monarchy has hit a new low in terms of public opinion so i don't know whether this plays into it obviously we've seen a decline for a long time there was a little bit of a philip in 2011 when william and kate middleton as she was then got married and 2012 for the diamond jubilee but since then it's continued to drop though over half of people still think that we should have a monarchy rather than an elected head of state but it has reduced significantly. So while 86% thought the monarchy was important in 1983, that's dropped to now only 51%. So it is interesting.

I think these sort of family stories between Harry and the King only highlight the fact that they are a normal family. So when there are difficulties and fallings out, I actually don't think it just makes them more human than put on a pedestal. And I'm quite sure of you. I mean, how do you think they're sitting now in the public? You know, I think this week will probably have an impact on public opinion.

I think, you know, however low Harry sinks in the polls, and we've seen that, you know, he's now lingers at the bottom of polls above Prince Andrew and his wife, the Dutch of Sussex. I think at the end of the day, the British public still feel quite warmly towards him and want that relationship with his father and the rest of the royal family ultimately to improve. Because I think whenever there is discord in the royal family, it's never a good look for the institution. It's never a good look to the public when there's discord and, you know, the royal family, the institution, the monarchy is meant to stand for unity. The king as head of state, the king as head of nation, is there as a unifying symbol in the way that the late queen was, you know, so much during times of strife, during COVID, during, you know, wars. They're meant to stand for unity.

And if they are at strife with each other and if there is discord, it doesn't project well to the outside world. So I think the more narrative that goes forward is about reconciliation rather than strife and separation is much better for them publicly. I don't think it's as straightforward as that though. You know, it's not done. It's not sorted yet. We've seen that with the brothers. You're right. It's not a good look for the monarchy as a whole as an institution.

And I don't think it's a good look for Charles as king. I think those past times when he was quite clear he couldn't even make five minutes to see his son. I'm not sure that played very well with the public, to be honest. But it's interesting to see how the dramas unfolded around the world as well with the king and the princes. It seems to have been a scoring, but it's not just fascinated British journalists,

but all around Europe and as far as Australia, of course, where Charles is the king. In Madrid, ABC we're calling this Harry's Viaja Decisivo, his decisive trip. In Sydney, Sky News Australia described the trip as a statement. And in Paris, the question posed was, Vere un reconciliation

Royal. Are we about to see a royal reconciliation? In a word, Kate, did we? Towards a reconciliation royal. I think that hits a nail on the head. We are going towards one. Towards. Towards one. Towards. Yeah.

Well, what a week. And next week, another visit from someone else from America. President Trump. The Donald is on his way for an unprecedented second state visit. And we now know it's going to be quite spectacular. And many of the elements of pomp and ceremony in triplicate for this one. He's getting three for the price of one. And we are going to be all over it, Kate, aren't we from Windsor? It's going to be a very special episode of the podcast. Yes. And we will join you there. So in the meantime, do subscribe to the times.com. Don't forget to follow the podcast so you don't miss next week's special episode. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, you can always email us at the royals at the times.com.com. But until next week, I'm the Trump Circus. Bye bye, Kate.

Bye, boy.