The Royals with Roya and Kate - Harry, Meghan and the King: was Highgrove a royal breakthrough?

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Prince Harry and Meghan returned to Britain with Archie and Lilibet for a strictly private reunion with King Charles and Queen Camilla at Highgrove. There were no photographs, few official details and — unusually — no briefing war afterwards.Kate Mansey and Roya Nikkhah reveal what they know about the meeting, why Camilla’s presence was so significant, and how Harry felt afterwards. They also ask whether the reunion can lead to a lasting reconciliation while Prince William remains outside the thaw.But Harry’s reunion came amid the fallout from his High Court defeat against Associated Newspapers. His description of the judgment as a “whitewash” reportedly left palace aides with their “jaws on the floor”.So can Harry rebuild trust with his father while continuing his public battles with the press and the British establishment — and can he finally become a peacetime prince?Next week, incoming prime minister Andy Burnham meets the King — what would you like to know about that relationship? Get in touch: [e-mail]: GettyProducer: Robert WallaceExecutive Producer: Priyanka DeladiaWatch on YouTube.Read more: Palace 'jaws were on the floor' after Prince Harry's judiciary attack Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals, the podcast where we discuss what happens behind palace walls and why it matters. I'm Kate Manzi. And I'm Roya Nica. It was a royal reunion. Many thought might never happen. Prince Harry and Meghan quietly arrived at Highgrove with Archie Nilibet for a strictly private meeting with King Charles and Queen Camilla. Now there were no photographs, no TV cameras and. virtually no details. So what do we know about what happened behind the gates at Highgrove? And after a bruising week for Harry, losing his privacy case, what did the palace make of his attack on that judgment?

And after years of waging war on the palace, the press and the British establishment, is Highgrove the moment Harry finally puts his sword down. Wow. To Highgrove, Kate. To Highgrove. We've been to High Grave a few times. We have for a slightly different event. It was that meeting came after weeks of debate, discussion, will they, won't they, will they, but it sort of felt like momentum was moving in the week because although Megan had pulled out to public events with Harry last week, he was in town for a week, the fact that we were told she was coming with the children just set it up, didn't it?

It did. Well, we also thought he was going to stay in Buckingham Palace at one point. Transpired, that wasn't the case. So it didn't start off well that week for Harry, but then we had this culmination, didn't we, on the Friday, when Buckingham Palace, not Harry's spokesman, revealed that there had been a meeting that Harry, Megan, and Prince Archie,

as they referred to him, and Princess Lillibet, met Charles and Camilla at High Grove. That was it. That was all that we were told that the meeting had concluded that it wasn't a stay over. They weren't staying overnight. They'd gone for the afternoon. Been there at Highgrove House, we were told, that's your lot.

We're not putting out any pictures. We're not putting out any further detail. And Harry's camp, for once, was stum. So far. So far. Not made that continue both sides, actually. Because last week was a real week of brief and counter-brief from both sides. And I think there was a lot of noise and a lot of drama.

Will, they, won't they, will, they, won't they? Now, we didn't see Megan publicly in the UK at all. She had been due, hadn't she, to join Harry on that Wednesday. and for some of the Invictus engagements. They flew in privately. They weren't seen and then ushered into Highgrove away from the press. They were able to sneak in under the radar. Which is interesting because one of the things you and I have talked about

endlessly on this podcast is the security. Harry's issue with security, the fact he continues to fight to have his security reinstated here. It hasn't been successful. He hasn't had that reinstated. there is an ongoing issue with Ravec, will it review his security, will it do this security review? He has always said repeatedly many times, it's not safe for me to bring my wife and children back to the UK without that. That famous interview last year he gave after losing the back of the Home Office, I can't see a world in which I can bring my wife from my children back and all the things they're going to miss.

He has been able to do that. He has been able to do that pretty adequately without any drama. People close to him last week told me at the weekend, Well, he did bring them back, but it wasn't in the way he wanted to. He would have liked them to have been involved in some of the public events. The children, too, which I thought was interesting, but that wasn't possible without the extra security. Okay. But he was able to bring them back.

They were able to see their grandfather. They were able to be here. And I thought one of the other really interesting things about last week, given where we started, with the king saying, uh-uh, you're not staying at Buckingham Palace, was the fact that it was widely reported and he let it be known. He was staying with his uncle, Charles Spencer. Diana's brother, the other family. Yes, where of course, his late mother is buried. Now, High Grove in and of itself is really interesting, isn't it?

I mean, I think it's significant because that's where Harry and William used to play. We've both been around there. There's a new tree house. You know, one wonders whether they were playing in the tree house. The children were showing the gardens. But it's also become, you know, it's a real home to Charles. So to bring Harry into that kind of the bosom of the family in that way, I thought was significant. It's a sanctuary for children.

isn't it? And the drama came into the sanctuary, but in a quiet way. Well, he's got his chapel there as well, hasn't he, in the gardens that we've seen. Where he goes to reflect after turbulent times. Do you think you went and did a session there after waving them off? Now I'll just go and reflect. I liked your piece at the weekend because there was a great line in it, oh, to be a fly on the hydrangeas, somebody told you. And I think that sort of sums it up because so much we don't know about it. Now, what was Harry's reaction? What were sources close to Harry saying after this? Because both sides stuck to the deal.

You know, there was a lot of secrecy around it. No pictures were released. They didn't get the money shot of the family, the big family reunion, which they would have known would have been front page everywhere. But Harry did let it be known a little bit. Tell us what his reaction was to the reunion. Well, I was told on Saturday.

What was interesting, I thought, was his demeanour when he was at Birmingham on Friday. and clearly knew this meeting was going to happen. He was going to go from the NEC to Warwickshire. He seemed, and people who saw him there were like he was pretty buzzing. He always is within Victus, but he really was. Puppyish. Yeah.

On Saturday, when he went to Warwickshire, I spoke to someone in his team who said he was, there was no leaking of what happened. There was no emotional response like we have had previously from Harry when he comes out to a meeting and says, I don't know how much longer my father's got. But I was told he was energized, Boyd, very happy. So he was clearly delighted that it took place, regardless of all the drama and all the fighting between him and his family and his father. I think there is something about Harry being able to reintroduce his children who've not seen the grandfather for four years. Yeah, well, that's it.

The children haven't been here since 2022 for the Platinum Jubilee. Megan was last here for the Queen's funeral later that year. So four years have gone by. A lot has been said from Montecito about the king, about Camilla, about the rest of the family. it would not have been an easy meeting. How significant do you think it was that Megan was there with the children? I thought it was significant that she pulled out to the public engagements. I know security was cited as one issue, but I'm not sure what had changed between them

announcing that she was going to come and be part of those public engagements and then her, the no show. I wonder whether she sort of ponder the reaction to her in the UK now. I'm sure. Although I think going and doing things like the Invictus event, which she was supposed to do with Harry, she's always going to be positive received there. I thought, you know, oh to be a fly on the hydrangeer, Harry definitely wants a relationship with his father and his children.

I've never got the sense really in the last few years that Megan has particularly fussed about rebuilding a relationship with the UK or with the royal family. We've not heard anything from her on that point, have we? So I suspect she was probably... She hasn't been back before years. No, I suspect she was there more to support Harry and be with the kids in a new environment with their grandfather, the king.

I mean, it must be quite odd for them. They're American children. The father is, you know, the spare. Their grandfather is the king of England, who they haven't seen for four years. And they're prince and princess. Yeah. Is it significant that the palace used those terms? Obviously they are.

So they're entitled to use those monikas. But it was interesting. It felt like an olive branch from the palace to say that Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet had been there. I think the whole thing was a massive olive branch. You can't see it in any other way. I mean, a lot of people have been saying. saying, is this the beginning of a big reposher of reconciliation? I'm not sure it's at the beginning of, you know, a whole new relationship,

but it's definitely the beginning of a slight crack in the ice, a thaw in the ice, and proof that it's possible, it's logistically possible to. Yeah, exactly. I think it's a good step forward, isn't it? But I think let's see, because who knows what will come out, whether details will see part on one side or another. But who was there this time as well, that we haven't discussed Camilla? because she wasn't at the Clarence House meeting between Harry and the King in September when he came over last year.

She was there previously when, you know, after the King's diagnosis, she was in the room. This time she was there. I mean, to have to face Megan, after everything that, you know, Harry and Megan have said, and let's remember, you know, when Harry was promoting Spare, his memoirs, he called her Dangerous. He said that his stepmother was a villain, if you remember. I do. And in his book, when he was, you know, he said, he said. talked about what he saw as a campaign to rehabilitate her image and the public's mind from

what she had been, the toxic mistress to the king to anointed queen. He said that she had sacrificed him on her personal PR altar. So really quite pointed attacks at his father's wife. One presumes they haven't been sort of WhatsApping, sorry about that or there's been no apology about that. But then here they are at Highgrove. Now, it's where the king likes to stay. Camilla prefers to be at Ray Mill, of course, her traditional family home, not far away. But it does feel like, you know, you talk about Megan being there to support Harry. It feels like Camilla's very much there to support the King. There's no way in the world she's going to let that meeting happen without her.

Well, no, because what if something said and then afterwards? I think it speaks to Camilla and the kind of character she is, which is a rate at the weekend. She's not just a canny operator, but she's very loyal and protective of Charles. Regardless of the fact that he's having cancer treatment, she's very loyal and protective to him, generally as a father, as someone who's got a not entirely straightforward son, like so many of our families. We know how hurt she was by those jibes that he made. The king let it be known that, you know, he felt that in spare a red line was crossed.

Harry crossed to red line. I know her great friend Fiona Lansdowne told me that it did hurt her. The things that he said about her did her her. So, you know, she's got reason to be pretty annoyed with Harry and Megan. But there she was. I think probably, you know, she's brilliant at making small talk. she can sort of rise above the awkwardness. She's done it all her life.

But I suspect she wanted to be there, not just to support the Kings, but to actually see and hear what happened and what was said. So if down the line something comes out or emerges, that possibly maybe a recollections may vary scenario, she was there to see it. Fascinating. Fascinating to see. And of course, one person who we never talk about anymore when Harry comes over because it's just such a moot point is William.

Because that, you know, it feels very much that's done. for now, at least. What would you think? Well, it goes to the heart of the question of whether or not reconciliation is really possible if William's not part of it, doesn't it? William was in Windsor playing a charity polo match. Of course, the brothers used to play in those charity polo matches together. And now one plays in California, one plays at Windsor once a year. No sign of William, no sign of William at any Spencer family reunion a few days later either. Can reconciliation between Harry and the Royal family really be meaningful without William? I don't think so.

I think with the institution with monarchy, no, because ultimately William's the next boss. And how will that work, you know, when William is King? Yeah. So I think it's nice that Harry can rebuild that relationship with his father, and I think that is quite crucial to both the King and Harry. I suspected to put much more pressure on the King's relationship with William, because William won't like the fact that Harry's, you know,

after all that's been said and done, Harry wafs back into Highgrove their child at home and goes and has tea with the king. But he can't surely begrudge the king wanting to meet his grandchildren. But he won't like it. No. He won't like it. And also Williams' children will be curious about the family. And that will be interesting as William's children grow up.

And they have questions about Uncle Harry, Auntie Megan. Who they don't know. And their cousins, they don't know at all. And the cousins eventually might be the kind of bridge when they both want to find out about each other and they're older. It's so much to unpick. It's absolutely fascinating, isn't it? If we hear nothing more about it as we go through the next few weeks, I think that'll be a very positive sign.

If anything comes out about that meeting, even any more kind of emotional response to it, I think it'll be... Back to square one. I think it'll be game over for any more meetings. I just think that, you know, that's the red line, isn't it, for the palace? Yeah.

And the palace, the fact that the palace put out that statement and there was lots of sort of follow up with Harry's team, what else can you tell us? And they were just like, refer to Buckingham Palace. That was a very clear line. for fucking ban I saying we're controlling this. For now. Coming up, the king was somehow able to put that to one side,

let his courteous stew about it. But I was told he was really not very happy about it either and worried about it. But away from the reunion, as a busy program of public events, we saw Harry doing goat yoga and Invictus, which was rather overshadowed, wasn't it? It was, as it always sort of is these days, unfortunately. You know, Harry is a great supporter of the Amictus Games, and they are a brilliant thing.

and there's a lot of public goodwill behind the movement for supporting injured servicemen and women. But last week, the way it played out was just a classic, you know, the judgment that came through, he lost his judgment against associated newspapers. He made that blistering attack

afterwards about the judgment, saying it was a whitewash and an obvious whitewash and, you know, and everything he then does tends to fall under the shadow of the drama, doesn't it? Well, that was it, wasn't it? It was the criticism of the King's Courts and that was one of the crucial

element that meant that they weren't going to let Harry do a U-turn on his offer of staying at Buckingham Palace because they didn't want a statement like that, an excoriating attack on the King's courts, to be delivered from under a sovereign's roof. The fact that he then went ahead and did that, the palace said, well, this is exactly what we thought would happen. But what was the reaction from the palace when it did come? Quite extraordinary. As I wrote at the weekend, after that statement, that Harry made, where he really attacked Mr Justice Nicklin in quite bitter terms, a joint statement with him and Baroness Dorian Lawrence, who was one of the other claimants, where there was sort of shock and upset were the implications of that statement.

Because as someone said to me, a palisade, there were jaws on the floor with a statement attacking not just a high court judge, but the entire judicial system that acts in the king's name. There is profound upset constitutionally about that attack. And that's the problem with Harry, isn't it? Yeah. Because that's important. He doesn't get it. I mean, if he does, he doesn't care.

But that is important constitutionally because he's dragging the king essentially into a constitutional mess because the king has to be completely separate from any legal action. With Harry then the son of the monarch attacking the sovereign's courts and the judges and essentially striking at the heart. of the justice system and the civil courts, it compromises Charles. So for Charles to then have proceeded with the meeting with Harry after that was really interesting.

It's what people are close to the royal family always talk about the institution and the family business versus the family. And the family business side of things and the constitutional side of things were very muddy and messy and murky last week. But the king was somehow able to put that to one side, let his courteous stew about it.

But I was told he was really not very happy about it either and worried about it. But then put that aside and just focus on the family bit at that Highgrave meeting. This is the issue with Harry. He is the king's son. And so it's not just, I've made my own way in America. I've got a free life. Everything he says is scrutinized in the context of being the king's son. And he does know that.

He's grown up in that system. He knows when he makes a statement like that, it's going to have reverberations wider than just beyond the WhatsApp screen on which it's been drafted. So looking ahead to the timetable, end of July, there'll be the costs hearing. Another hearing on that. And now there'll be a discussion about the costs. Which is said to be the bill on both sides said to be up to £50 million. £50 million.

Headline in the Times last week that they will be going for the jugular when it comes to costs. They feel buoyed and emboldened by that complete and utter victory. They want every single one of the 97 claims. And they will go for Harry and the other claimants. So the question is, how they're going to fund that? as well, how are they going to foot the bill? Now, we know a lot of the money came from the late Max Mosley and the hacked-off campaign, which was a campaign against the press.

How much is in that pot? We don't know, but whether Prince Harry and Sir Elton John will in part have to contribute to those costs, we understand that Baroness Lawrence won't personally be liable to pay any of that through the deal that was struck with the seven claimants. He can also repeal that judgment. I mean, I was told that he had put that to one side while he was in the UK and actually till the end of the month. He's got time to think about whether or not he wants to appeal.

You would hope, I think a lot of people around him would hope he will take that loss on the chin. He hasn't taken it on the chin yet with that statement he made, but he will just draw a line and stop litigating. He took the security battle all the way through to the Court of Appeal. He did. And he still bruised from having to pay out for that. And he still lost that. So I think, you know, a lot of people who have Harry's best interests at heart, I think hope, when I know hope, he won't appeal that judgment. It won't continue and this battle will finally come to an end after that cost hearing.

We've also learned last week, didn't we? In the aftermath of the case against Associated, a little bit more detail about what had been going on behind the scenes with Harry's AIDS and sourcing and briefing and counter-briefing. Because Charlotte Griffith, who's one of the mail-on- Sunday journalists, who gave him. evidence in court, was vindicated in the court judgment, later wrote a piece and said that she had been briefed by sources close to Harry, Harry's aides, that his comms team, two of his PR people were going to meet with Tobin Andrei, the King's Director of Communications. And that led her to be able to get a picture of that meeting, which then went on the front page of the mail on Sunday. Now, why is this significant? Well, that was front page news,

wasn't it, at the time? And after that came out, sources close to Harry were reported in the telegraph saying they were frustrated that details of the meeting and a picture of the meeting have been made public, which at the time, pointed the finger back at the palace, that maybe the palace were leaking details about the meeting. But in actual fact, it transpires that the original tip-off, according to Charlotte Griffiths, allegedly came from Harry's AIDS. Now, we've been to Harry at the Times for comment on this, and they've declined to comment. It just adds to this sort of murky world what you say in public and what they're doing behind the scenes and how they're pulling the levers all the time.

And I just thought that was fascinating because it's such big news at the time. And the palace at the time sort of hands up, you know, aghast, saying, in what world would we, you know, leaked details of a meeting between press teams. It serves no purpose. But then I don't know quite what Harry's team hoped to get out of that meeting. I think they thought that it would project an image of a rapprochement between Harry and his father if the representatives were meeting. It had the opposite effect, didn't it, that being leaked?

Because, you know, it just sparked, as the phrase it seems to me, existential mistrust from the palace towards Harry and his team. So that meeting at Highgrave though could prove to be more significant beyond just what happened last week. Because we know Harry is coming back in a couple of months. He will be back in the UK in September supporting WhaleChard, the charity that he's done stuff for for so long. He's back every year. He will probably knowing Harry in the way that he does when he comes back do a few engagements around that Whale Child thing. He'll be back for a few days.

Will he see his father again? He will certainly want to see his father again. We don't know whether Megan and the kids will come back with him. It will probably depend on their school arrangements. But, you know, it may be that he comes back every few months. We know, you know, people have said for a long time he wants to come back. He'd like to come back much more. He's said that.

No, he has to prove himself now. I think the ball's in Harry's court. He has to show that he can be trusted to have meetings in private that stay private. The question mark will be, do people think just because he sees his father and spend some more time here, there's always that question mark, does he want to return to a royal role? I still don't get the sense that he does. He likes his pseudo royal role. He likes to turn up with his operational notes and go on pseudo foreign visits.

He wants to do it on his own terms. I don't get the sense that he wants back in. That will never happen because Charles would need approval from William even and the queen. Why would they do that? The public wouldn't stand for either, I don't think. But your point about Megan perhaps being worried about the public reaction is really interesting. because when will we see Megan in the UK again? Publicly.

We've got Invictus being held in Birmingham in 27. She will want surely to be part of that, to be on the stage with that, to be by Harry's side for that. It feels like there might need to be a little bit of a testing of the waters before she returns for that because the longer you leave these things,

the harder it gets. Having said that, she's met the King and Queen with the children. It seems like a good first step. So we asked listeners last week what they made of Harry's relationship with his father and with the rest of the family. And one listener who wrote into us, thank you, who asked not to be named, said, until the family resolves its tensions, every visit will generate the same media circus.

At the heart of this is a family and grandchildren. Let's hope they can collectively forgive and reconcile. And that includes the future king, of course, William. I think, yes, in part, but I don't know if the family tensions are what's generating the media circus. I think Harry and his team and his gripes about security, it's been proven, hasn't it? They can meet in private. They can come to the UK without mishap. Yeah.

They can do it safely. And so if that's genuinely what they want, that can happen. Hopefully it's, you know, Harry deciding that it's time to let bygones be bygones and move forward. But we haven't really seen any sign of that. Do you think, and it's the question I posed in the peace at the weekend, can Harry be a peacetime prince? Does he know how to stop fighting? I mean, he's been in fight mode for so many years now, pretty much, you know,

for a couple of years before we left the Royal Family and then the six years since. But it really has been fight mode. Do you think he knows how to be slightly more peaceful going forward? idea of him as a kind of a warrior prince sounds daring and you know like he's on the side of virtue but so often his causes aren't backed up by kind of public support or any real sense that anybody's with him on his kind of one-man crusade you know that has this disastrous judgment for him proved that he was out baying for blood but totally barking up the wrong tree when it came to associated newspapers his group. So it's so hard to think six years on that he's still so angry. I think a lot of people

who knew and loved him would want him to be happy and want him to be settled. But he doesn't show any sign of that kind of growth at all, does he? Well, fingers crossed, watch this space. The High Grove Summit, Sandringham Summit, see what we've done this is the High Grove Summit, hopefully might turn a corner for him. Maybe the magic of the High Grove Gardens and the The peacefulness of the hydrangeas. The peacefulness of the hydrangees. Yeah, we'll have some sort of lasting effect. Let's hope so.

That's it from us this week. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like, rate and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube at the Times Royal's channel. And next time, what happens when the king meets the king of the north? That's the question next week

when incoming Prime Minister Andy Burnham will formally ask King Charles to form his government. And we'll be taking a deep dive into the relationship between politics and the palace. What happens behind closed doors and where the monarch's powers begin and end? And what would you like to know about the relationship between the king and his prime ministers? Email us your thoughts and questions at the royals atthimes.com.com. We might include them in next week's episode. And until then, thanks for joining us on the Royals.

We'll see you next week. Thank you.