The Royals with Roya and Kate - Harry’s security challenge - will the Sussexes come back to the UK?

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

Next week, Prince Harry returns to Britain at a critical moment. Roya and Kate unpack the significance of his return — including a major High Court case, a long-running security review, and the impact both could have on family reconciliation and future visits to the UK. Could this be a turning point for Harry and the monarchy?Image: Getty Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals. I'm Kate Mansy, royal editor for The Times. And I'm Royneika, royal editor for the Sunday Times. Prince Harry is expected to return to the UK next week for his first visit since September, and it could be one of his most important visits to date. Last time Harry was here, there was some tentative steps towards reconciliation with his father the king. This visit, though, comes with much more complications. Harry is returning for a high court case against the publishers of the Daily Mail. It comes shortly before a decision is expected on his long-running challenge to reinstate his police security in the UK.

These are developments that could shape how Harry will spend time in Britain going forwards, with implications not just for him, but his family and future relationship with the UK. So what does this trip really mean? Will it open the doors for more visits? And could it pave the way for the King to see his American grandchildren for the first time in almost four years? And is this a realistic path towards full reconciliation with the King and other members of the Royal Family beyond conversations behind closed doors? Well, Harry is back next week, Kate. Why is he back? What's he coming for?

Well, we're expecting to see him in the High Court on Monday when his battle at his battle. against associated newspapers, the publishers of the Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday, goes ahead. This has been in the planning for a long time and it's going to be the start of a nine-week trial. So we expect Harry to be in the UK for several days and he'll be giving evidence alongside other claimants. So joining Harry in the claim, our Sir Elton John, David Furnish, Elizabeth Hurley, Baroness Lawrence, Sadie Frost and Sir Simon Hughes. It's going to be quite something, isn't it, Royal? It's going to be a showdown, I think, isn't it? There was a lot of speculation for a while that this could be settled, that either side would look to settle or both.

It's gone all the way to trial now. Harry seems absolutely determined to have his day in court, so to speak, we expect to see that next week. Let's just recap. So the case that he and the other claimants are bringing are for historical allegations. So it's going quite a long way back of things like unlawful information gathering, historical phone hacking. We've got to stress that Associated Newsweek is Limited, which publishes the Daily Mail, on Sunday, strenuously deny everything and they're going to be vigorously fighting all these allegations in court. It's interesting how the claimant's barrister, David Sherbourne, has asked all seven

claimants to attend the opening as a what's he described as a show of strength. So there's very much going to be a lot of theatre that comes along with the court proceedings. There always is, isn't there, with Harry, a couple years ago when he was in court for the mirror trial and very much, you know, there was a sort of feeling that he came prepared with things he wanted to say, there's going to be huge scrutiny, I think, on everything that he says. I mean, of course, nine weeks and he's not the only claimant, but it's a very big deal. But there is a lot more going on than just the court case coming up, isn't there? That's right.

I mean, I'm sure we'll return to that at length next week. Now, we're not expecting to see him in the UK for nine full weeks, are we? But this comes amid a renewed kind of call for Harry to have his UK security reinstated, which is another long-running legal battle. So Kate, where are we at with the security? Because we had a very long, Harry had a long running battle with the Home Office, which he lost last year. There were all sorts of sort of complicated things around there, weren't there? Because it put under strain not just his relationship with his father because he thought he should maybe intervene.

But it slightly complicated his relationship with the UK, which we'll look at later on in this episode. But that was all about whether or not the decision had been taken correctly to remove it, not about whether he should have it really. stated and something else is afoot now, isn't it? That's right. I mean, we could go right back to the beginning and unpack it all, which would take us back more than four years to when Harry, like you say, launched legal proceedings against the Home Office, claiming through a judicial review process that they had got the law wrong. When he left Royal duties in 2020, he was downgraded, essentially, they said that his risk assessment had been lowered and he was no longer entitled to automatic state sponsored security. That means he doesn't get police officers following him

around, guarding him when he comes to UK. He thought that was unfair and he fought that decision. So, you know, at the time we were told that he had offered to pay for it, which is something we can come on to separately as well. But in the course of those nearly four years of a wrangling, at least over three years in the court, Harry tried to get that decision proved to be an unfair decision. He said that you've got the law wrong. He should have had police security. And that all ended in the court of appeal.

It went all the way to the court of appeal. And in May last year, that led to a final defeat for Harry. It did not go the way that he wanted. Shortly after that, we saw this astonishing interview with the BBC in which he said that his father wouldn't speak to him over this security stuff, as he said. And Buckingham Palace said, after May 2025, Court of Appeals hearing, all of these issues have been examined repeatedly and meticulously by the courts

with the same conclusion reached each and every time. And it was at that point we heard from him or he said, critically, you know, it is not safe for me to bring my, I won't be able to bring Megan and my children back to the UK without that security. And I want to bring them back. I want reconciliation with my family. All the things that they're going to miss. So he set out a very clear case. I mean, he called that decision by the Court of Appeal judges a good old-fashioned establishment stitch up.

We shouldn't go down very well, I think, with much of the establishment and, you know, our legal system here. So the government said in reaction to the RMB case, that the UK's protective security system is rigorous and proportionate. Specific security arrangements, they say, can't be commented on for operational reasons. What was interesting in the aftermath of that, and that, of course, you know, that kind of intervention from Harry, as tends to, caused an enormous mad to controversy, not only within his own family because he said things like, I don't know how much longer my father has. The king was undergoing weekly cancer treatment at that point. But it also set out a very clear story from Harry that he wants to come back more, feels he can't without his family without security, called for the reconciliation.

But it also, since then, people close to him have admitted to me he realizes that perhaps it was a bit of a mistake pressing the nuclear button of going to court. And that's all because of what's happening now, of course, which is end of last year, he wrote to the new Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood and said, look, you know, for years, I have not had a risk assessment. I haven't had a risk management board, this RMB. That's what I want. Everyone else does public tickets.

Everybody else has this. I should be entitled to this. I shouldn't be. Play by your own rules. Yeah, I shouldn't be a special case. So he's actually now been granted that because this home secretary said, yeah, okay, that's what's undergoing at the moment. If they come back and say, you're right, Harry, we downgraded you. And now actually we do think your risk is higher.

And that qualifies you to have security. That could change everything. Now, the RMB has yet to come back. That's the state that we're in at the moment. And they will give their findings to Ravec, which is the committee, which helps to establish who gets security, whether it's VIPs or members of the royal family, from the home office. And Ravik will then analyse the R&B findings and pass that on to an independent chair of the board. And that decision is waiting now.

What's been happening behind the scenes is really interesting to me because we've seen reports in other newspapers that this decision now is nailed on for Harry to have his security reinstated. Now, Pallisinsiders are telling me that's not the case. and it's actually kind of enraged a few people who say that they have to let this due process play out. You know, sources close to Harry can't be sure that it's nailed on. Yeah, there's no decision been taken yet. It may well be, of course, that his risk does go up. The Ravik say, yeah, he should have security and the chair agrees.

So what was the point of a three-year legal battle? Now, Harry would argue and has, through his own lawyers, through interviews, that he's done with the likes of BBC, that in terms of risk, he obviously is son of the king, brother to the future king. He's served two tours of Afghanistan, 10 years in the army, but also the risk is ongoing because what was put forward to the most recent request for a review of the risk assessment was what happened last September when he came over for a series of engagements, four days of engagements. And a couple of times during that trip when he was here, once at the Well Child Awards and somewhere else,

someone, a figure who, you know, his team were very unsure of, got very close to Harry. And because there was no armed police protection around it, it was actually a member of his team, formed member of the armed forces, but a member of Harry's sort of personal team that sort of physically stepped in and prevented this woman from getting any closer. And that, as we understand, has been a very big part of what has been put forward.

But as people close to Harry say, we know there's no decision been made yet. They argue, and this is interesting. I think the language is interesting. Because someone said to me last week, close to him, whether you like Harry or not, those things we've just mentioned, form a service in the armed forces in Afghanistan, relationship to the king, member of the royal family, he just is. You can't change those. So those remain the same, which I think is one of the things he's hoping people will look at.

That's right. And although they don't talk openly about who gets police security when they come here, we know there's probably quite a lot of unlikable characters if the public were to decide. that do get police security because there is a risk against them. And when there's a risk against them, that means there's a risk to the public too. If someone was going to attack them in the public while they were here in the UK. But you hit on an interesting point about Afghanistan because, of course, he wrote about Afghanistan in his memoir spare. He talked about that he killed 25 Taliban fighters, for example.

And some people say that he's made a situation worse in that respect. Regardless, you know, he's saying just because I'm not doing official duties, that does not change the risk. And if it does change the risk, then fine, let the RMB decide. The difference with this, though, is that there is no requirement for the court to look at the risk assessment is there. The court doesn't get involved. It is a security issue of looking at what the risk is and whether it requires our arm protection. And I think that is, I think if he was to go back and rewind three years, he might have written to the Home Secretary first before pressing that nuclear button is my feeling. Well, that's it, isn't it? Perhaps he was badly advised by lawyers at the time because the judicial review is perhaps not the right legal tool. Perhaps he should have asked nicely for an R&B, which is what he's done. And it seems to be successful so far in being granted, at least that they're looking at his case. But the question comes up, doesn't it? You talked about the person who allegedly came close to Harry and one of his own protection team was forced to kind of step in. Now, he does have protection. The question is, of course, we hear it all the time. Why can't Harry? pay for his own protection, why does he need the taxpayers in the UK to fund police to protect him

when he's here? Yes. And there are, the sort of answer is... He's offered to, hasn't he? But he can't. Why can't he? Because the police aren't for sale here. And I think it's twofold, the reason why he would want the UK police to be protecting him rather than private guards. Here in the UK, the police have armed response units, which wouldn't be available to, you know, Joe Brog's security firm. and also the fact that... There's an intelligence issue as well, isn't it? It's an intelligence issue. So there's no sort of information sharing.

And that's always been, Harry's, you know, publicly, that's always been his complaint. He said, look, the police know about these risks. They're well connected. They have joined up intelligence in a way that a private security firm couldn't hope to have.

So there's those two things. But how do you think that all play with the public in terms of cash being spent on it? The very fact, you know, for Harry, there is no way around. And we know it because we report on it There is no way around the issue that have you look at his security, it is tied up in a lot of people's minds with how they think about Harry, not whether I think a lot of people who have a

view on the royal family and have a view about Harry and Megan who have become whatever you think increasingly divisive figures since they left the Royal Family's Working Royals. It is all caught up in quite emotional feelings with the public as to how they feel about them. So there is a feeling, why should he get security? You know, he left, he chose his life. But actually what Harry's looking at is just asking for a just straight out look at the risk against him. So coming up, we'll look at what this security decision could unlock or block for Harry and his family. And could it open the door to Megan's return to the UK for the first time in four years? The timing, as is always the case with Harry Megan, is interesting because we know that Harry

will return this summer. He's not going to do any engagements when he's back in court next. week for a few days. He'll be focused on the court case next week. But he will come back probably a couple of times later this year. In the summer, to mark engagements here in the UK around one year to go to the Invictus Games, which are in Birmingham, next July. And we know he's always at the Well Child Awards in September. Now, we know because he constantly says so, and his team constantly brief, that he would like to be able to come back with his children and his wife at some point. Megan hasn't been here since September 22, 22, around events around her late majesty's death and funeral.

The children haven't been here since June when they were here for the platinum Jubilee briefly. Now, that's a long time to have not seen the king, their grandfather. You know, both sides feel that. You wrote a piece recently saying that he was sort of quietly confident that this was all going to change. Tell us a bit about that. Well, I think that's how he feels.

What that's based on with no decision yet made, who knows? But I think my understanding is, from what his team have been able to put forward in terms of evidence of risk against him, that's where I think he's feeling quitely confident that not in a good way, that there is an increased level of risk against him. He has been very clear that he wants to bring them back.

He's been very clear they won't come back without it. And so there is a sort of, you know, whichever way that decision goes, and we expect it at some point in the next month, although his team don't think it's going to come while the trial is on, interesting, or while he's here, he's going to have very big ramifications

as to what happens for them as a family going to. But they have traveled extensively as a couple without the children. So we've seen them go to quite interesting kind of hotspots around the world. We've seen them in Nigeria. Colombia. Colombia. We saw Megan appearing in a surprise visit to Paris. I go to Ukraine.

He's going back to Ukraine this year. Well, exactly. So that's all very interesting. But the UK, they think is potentially this is more of a hotspot for them. Let's say, let's look at some high. hypotheticals here. If he gets his arm, police protection reinstated, we know he's going to turn his mind very soon as to when he can bring his family back. If he was to bring Megan, possibly the children back this summer, what is that going to mean in terms of, first of all, how do you think

they'd be received by the public? I think they'd be received really well, actually. I think, you know, like we said, no matter what people think about Harry, I think a lot of people actually do think he should have security because it's not his fault he was born into that situation. But I do think there's a kind of, you know, a kind of glamour around Harry. We saw it the last time he was here in September. He got a really good reception. I think with him and Megan... They're more complicated for her, do you think?

I think it's more complicated for Megan. She hasn't been back since, like you say, 2022. There have been lots of pot shots from the couple on Netflix, things like that. I think it will be really interesting to see them as a couple. They do bring star power, whatever you think about them. People would be fascinated to see them here. what will be really interesting if they come for the one year on for Invictus Games this summer is what will happen when the Inviticus Games is hosted in Birmingham next summer, 27,

around the time of Camilla's 80th birthday celebrations. Yeah. By the way, you know, there were reports in the past week that the King will be invited to the Invictus Games. I'm sure he'll be invited. I'll be invited. But that will put him in an interesting position. Will he come? Yeah.

You know, there have been two really major points for the King. when it comes to meeting Harry, as Harry said himself, he won't talk to him while the security stuff is ongoing. We know he's not going to see him next week. And we know he's not going to see him next week because the king doesn't want to be linked to court proceedings while they're ongoing, particularly when it's so high profile. So the king will be in Scotland as he usually is at this time of year. And there are no plans for father and son to meet.

So first of all, that case has to be concluded. Second of all, the security element, it's no coincidence to me that that meeting in September was arranged and happened after Harry's court case over his security had seemingly concluded and had concluded. Yeah, the issue hadn't concluded. Yes, exactly. So the issue hadn't concluded because it's come up again and it involves Ravik again. And two members of the royal household sit on Ravik. Yes, they do. The committee that decide or help decide about the security for members of the royal family and other VIPs. And Harry seems to be making it clear. There was a report saying that, You know, it will all go ahead if the palace doesn't scupper it.

Harry has not given up his battle for security, but he hasn't given up his battle against what he refers to as the men in grey suits either. That briefing is still going on, thinking that the palace are somehow out to get him, and relationships seems to have soured between the two offices, between Montecito and the palace. And it's hard to think that Father and some will be reunited when those two operations seem to be so at odds.

I think we'll probably hear a lot more about next week as well at some point during the court case because there's always been a sort of underlying and very overt sort of point of view from Harry. He's given an interview saying he wished his family had supported him more in his battle against the press. I think the Megan issue is really interesting because I think the different relationship

that Harry and Megan both have with the UK will be borne out a lot over the next year, depending on which way the security of view goes. we had a few weeks ago we had Mark Lander of the New York Times on and he picked up on a really good point, which is that obviously how Megan plays out in the US and her homeland is very different to how the public respond to her here. What more positive over there means than over here.

You know, in the way that, you know, he noted how absolutely savage some of the commentary and critic had been around the latest launch of her Netflix holiday special. I suspect what might be on Megan's mind, both of them will remember when they came to St. Paul's Cathedral for the Platinum Jubilee Service of Thanksgiving for Her Majesty, the Queen. Unfortunately, she wasn't well,

so she was watching it at home. But they came and they were both cheered and booed on the steps of St Paul's Cathedral. And that was picked up on TV screens. I mean, we all remember it. We all covered it in our coverage. And I suspect there is part of Megan that constantly wonders

how she will be received as she is out in public. I think Harry worries about that slightly less. But it is a different relationship that they each have here. And I'm sure she'd want to support him. But if she's here at an Envyctor's event, it becomes a different thing than just Harry kind of mucking in with, you know, the veterans. It's just a different thing, isn't it? It is. But I mean, do you think then that Megan's return is more complicated than just having

that security reinstated? Yes. Because she will, she want to come anyway? I think she will come. I can't see a world in which she comes back if his security is reinstated with the children without her. When you think in Victors as well, it's special to them as a couple. It was the first time we really saw them together. Toronto, yeah. And, you know, and. Yeah, and I think it's such a kind of feather in Harry's cap. It's such a brilliant thing to put on this Paralympic style competition for Wounded Service men and women. She's always been supportive. She's spoken a lot of the games in the past.

She's taken to the stage. It's a positive thing. It's very pernative. To come back for, I think. And while she has stayed away from a lot of the court cases and we won't see her next week, I think this is something that she does feel quite passionate about and has helped with. So I expect she'll be here. But will she come back more frequently? Will she want to?

Well, I mean, that's the whole question, isn't it? If he gets his security bank, what does that mean in terms of both of their relationship with the UK and what they wanted to look like? Will they both want to do more work here? I'm constantly told by people are close to Harry. He does want to do much more work here with his charities and patricers. He wants to come back. Never given those up. Not just to see his father more, if he can, but to expand a bit and have more of a sort of footprint here.

And it's all hypotheticals. What does that actually look like? If Megan doesn't want to spend that much time in the UK, we don't know. But does that mean Harry comes back with the children on his own? Does it mean that the king can start to have a relationship with those grandchildren? I think he would hope that. I think it would probably mean instead of one to two short trips a year, it might mean three to four trips a year.

So, you know, it's a very, I have no doubt that other members of the Royal Family might have very complicated views about Harry and Megan coming back more to the UK. it has not been smooth sailing. Their wrench from the royal family in 2020, their pursuit of a different life in America, and everything that's unfolded since, the Oprah interview, the Netflix documentary, Harry's book, Megan's interviews, Harry's interviews.

There's a lot to get over before, you know, them as a family are invited to Balmoral, for example, for the summer holidays. It's not just about the security case. It's not just about these current court proceedings. Harry has laid so much bare as has Megan in all those things we just mentioned, the series, the documentaries, the interviews, the books, I think they'd be sitting around the table at Bamarrow, worried that everything they said would appear in the next documentary.

So I don't think that's ever going to be written back into the script. I think what Harry can best hope for is more time with his father, with his children, and a little bit more of a relationship there. Which begs the question, I suppose, how crucial are the next few weeks, or certainly how crucial is the next week in setting up the future for what, that relationship between Harry and the Royal Family looks like, do you think? How crucial is this week? Vital. One, because I think the court case is absolutely vital, because Harry has a propensity to, as we've talked about, mention in quite heated terms where he feels he's taken a different view to his family in terms of their approach to the media. This case is going to be all about that.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that, you know, when he's on the stand in court next week, as we expect him to be, we hear him once again talk about how he has taken a very different path. He sees it as a sort of a campaigning crusade to see this through to the end with the tabloid press. It feels like other members of the royal family have kind of rolled over and had their tummy's tickled by the press. Yes. He thinks this is him standing up to it. So anything in that arena that he might say, potentially, depending on what he says and how he says it, has the potential to strain relations further with the family.

Yeah, indeed. What the lawyers in court will say, I think, is that this isn't about. how Harry's historic gripes against the press and whether he holds them responsible for the death of his mother, Princess Diana, they will be looking at the facts in front of them. As we've said, Associated newspapers very much plans to strenuously fight it

and has denied allegations of wrongdoing. Harry wants to have his moment in court. The scene is set for fireworks in the High Court. I think it will be very difficult for Harry emotionally because one of the things that, you know, gets thrown at him a lot and I've been one to do it. Around the time of his 40th birthday, I wrote a big profile for the magazine and someone who knows him very well said, all he does is spend his time looking back. If only he could wrench his neck forwards and look at the future

and be more forward-looking. And a lot of the conversations since then have been about wanting to be forward-focused, looking ahead, things he's got coming up for the next year and future projects. This is going to force him to look back at some of the very painful parts of his past, as we've heard him say in his book, his difficult relationship with the tabloid press over the years he feels was responsible for breaking out relationships with the likes of Chelsea Davy and other meaningful relationships in his life. And I think it will be difficult for him. Well, it's definitely going to be one to watch, isn't it? It's going to be quite the week next week and we'll be keeping a very close eye on how Harry's court case unfolds when he's back in the UK

next week with more to come on that and on the security decision. Indeed, these next few weeks really do matter. So make sure to like, rate and follow us wherever you're doing. joining us so you don't miss any of it. And if you'd like to watch the Royals, as well as listen, we now have a dedicated YouTube channel where you can do that. Get on. Just search Times Royals on YouTube for the latest episodes, clips and analysis. But for now, thanks for joining us on the Royals and we'll see you back next week.