The Royals with Roya and Kate - Is a reunion for King Charles and Prince Harry on the cards?

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

This week, King Charles and Prince Harry take small steps to reconciliation, with private peace talks that are then leaked to the press. But who tipped them off? Plus, Harry follows in Diana’s footsteps in Angola, the Princess of Wales returns to Centre Court to a standing ovation, and Queen Camilla makes naval history...with a side of cling film. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Will Kelleher. Join me and Alex Lowe for The Red Lions, a special three-part series on the history of the British and Irish Lions from 1950 to this year's Tour of Australia. With first-hand accounts from the players themselves, it tracks the rancour and revival of rugby's greatest touring team, the Red Lions. Memories, music, match reports and more available wherever you download the Ruck Rugby podcast from The Times. Hello and welcome back to The Royals where we delve into the people, the politics and the pageantry of the British monarchy. I'm Roarone Car from the Sunday Times.

And I'm Kate Mancy from the Times. Today, King Charles sends an olive branch to his estranged son. And this private gesture is leaked to the press. But the question is, by who? Plus, Princess Charlotte and Prince George steal the show at Wimbledon Centre Court, where the Princess of Wales received a standing ovation.

Let's begin with the big story of the week in what's been dubbed the Peace Summit. We've seen the pictures of the behind the scenes or not so behind the scenes attempt at reconciliation between the King and his second son Prince Harry. Through some of their aids, that's right. So pictures were published in a Sunday newspaper which showed Tobin Andre, King Charles' and the Queen's Director of Communications, meeting with Meredith Maynes. She's Harry's head of household

and his communications officer who had flown over from Montecito and Liam Maguire who is Harry's UK PR representative. They were all meeting at the King's Club essentially, Royal Overseas League of which he's patron and while they were there, there were some uninvited guests. There were some uninvited guests. Or at least one, paparazzi waiting in the bushes who'd obviously been tipped off because he had pictures of them arriving separately. Harry's lot were already inside. Tobin then arrived and then they were seen. They went out onto a balcony. Now I was told ironically that was a decision made so they

wouldn't be overheard inside, but then pictures of that meeting were revealed to the world and it was dubbed the Peace Summit. If there's one thing I've taken away from those pictures and perhaps it's one thing that the King's Press Secretary might take away from it and I'm sure I'll be hearing from him if he disagrees with this, knowing that he tunes into this podcast occasionally, it's I suppose if you want to have a very discreet meeting a balcony is not always the best place looking onto a park, is it? Would be my suggestion. I know it was a hot day, and there might have been less ears around, but it's quite visible, isn't it? It is quite visible if you're hiding in a bush in Green Park, but I think to most people it was just three people in suits having a chat.

The question is who had tipped them off that it was happening beforehand and how that all came about. So let's unpack it shall we? So Meredith Maynes, who is the newish sort of press supremo of Harry and Meghan's household isn't she? She's the sort of the new chief of staff and she was credited very much all over the BBC interview that Harry did straight after the court case that he lost against the Home Office. He gave this very impromptu, very emotional interview to the BBC where he talked about how he felt about losing that court case, how he said I would love a reconciliation with my family. That phrase was used many times, I would love a reconciliation with my family but That phrase was used many times. I would love a reconciliation with my family, but I know some of them won't forgive me.

And Meredith Maynes was said to have pretty much set that up and been all over that. But after that happened, Harry... Didn't go so well, did it? Harry quit company or parted company with two of his PR aides, one who was based in LA, one who was based over here. And then in comes Liam Maguire, who he's known through his work with Blesma, the organisation for

limbless military people, and he has known him for a few years, so he's now representing Harry. So it does seem like a new team, and they had reached out to the King's PR man, not William's, I'm told there was no attempt to contact Williams team or Williams office. And the meeting was arranged. And it's significant in itself because this is the closest they've got to some sort of kind of peace reconciliation or some sort of meeting around a table. A new open channel of communication was how it was described to me. Just a channel of communication, I think, because there's been so little communication between both sides. I mean, the BBC...

As Harry said in that interview, my father won't talk to me. The BBC interview, they got almost no advance warning of other than from the BBC, which they didn't get any advance warning from Harry's team that he was doing it or had done it. And I know from previous discussions with The Palace that they've been not at all kept abreast of what he was doing in terms of overseas trips or significant projects that Harry and Meghan have done. Yeah, the communication seemed to be based on a very limited range of when Harry was coming to the UK and had to alert Ravik, the committee that decides on royal security, that's when the palace would be involved. And it would normally be kind of private secretary to private secretary level,

well we know what Harry thinks of the King's private secretary, He's not a big fan of Sir Clive Alderton. What did he call him in spare? The wasp? I think he was the wasp. He was the wasp. There was a few insects, but I think we decided that that's who he was referring to when he said the wasp. So this is interesting because of this. Now, I've been told that for years, Harry's been trying to make these meetings happen, but on the basis of the fact that he wanted an apology, and it was described

to me as like untenable demands from the American side, so from Harry's side, it seems now that he's softened that desire for an apology. And that's where he's got as close as he can get now to having those meetings. And if you pick up on the BBC thing as well, like you said earlier, you know, he's saying some members of my family can't forgive me. So it's the first acknowledgement we've had from Harry that actually it's them who need to forgive him and not him who needs to be demanding an apology from them. So that does seem, although he appeared quite petulant in that BBC interview, I think there is an acknowledgement from his side that this has changed. If he

is desperate for the reconciliation that he says he craves, he's going to have to climb down. He's not gone as far as to say, he's sorry for some of the hurt that he's caused. He's got to manage his expectations, hasn't he? Because it went from, I remember doing a story a couple of years ago, just before Christmas, where the team around Harry, you know, told me, and it felt very personal to Harry and Meghan, that they wanted to summit an apology, they wanted to summit, they wanted an apology, they wanted an invitation to Sandringham for Christmas. None of which was quite clear to everyone, were ever going to be forthcoming.

So it has taken Harry a while to manage his expectations and to realize that his father and no one else in the Royal Family feel they have anything to apologize for. So you're right, it is a climb down, but it's the climb down I think he realizes he needs to make in order to make some headway towards spending any meaningful time with his father again. Who's been going through cancer treatment as we know and as Harry rather indelicately put it, we don't know how much longer my father's got left. Yeah, the very fact. It was phrased in the right way but obviously it's, you know, he says life is precious,

he's thinking about how that's playing on his mind. I think my takeaway from it, from discussions, is that peace summit might be slightly overblown. I know that's what, a story appeared in The mail on Sunday, it's how it was described. I think just a better relationship between both camps would be a start, particularly in terms of communications and knowing... At least knowing what's coming up to bite them on the bum. Exactly, and knowing what's coming up about it. And actually I wrote a column about this a few months ago where I said keeping Harry at arm's length has not done the king any good, keeping Andrew at arm's length, because you don't know what they're about to go and do.

But that brings us on to the next point, doesn't it? Why was it leaked? And who looks good from it being leaked? Now I would argue that... Well I would argue actually the reverse, that both sides do look good, because it isn't a good look for the king that he refuses to see his son when he comes over, but most people don't know the backstory that Harry's making all these demands and it's impossible for the king to see his son. He doesn't know what's going to be leaked, what's going to be on a prime time television interview which to me seems a perfectly reasonable excuse to turn down a meeting but it doesn't to the general population. Most people can't understand that he hasn't seen his son so this does you know Tob Andre, the King's director of comms,

turns up with a bottle of wine as a gift, you know, it's a kind of a peace offering of sorts. So I think the King's lot do look good, and I think Harry's lot probably do look good as well, that they've made the effort to come over. I know that they were meeting lots of people, journalists and other people, during that short spell that Meredith was over in London. I think it looks good on their part that they're reaching out to the Palace. Do you think it was leaked by both sides then? Well no, both sides claim, I was saying who stands to benefit from it, but both sides

claim innocence. Yeah, as you would expect them to. Look, it's not really the Palace way of doing things to put paps in bushes. No, they've fought a lot of legal battles against paps in bushes. As has Harry, right? So Harry's not saying they're frustrated by it. I understand Harry is sanguine, was the word that was used to me about it, saying, well, this is just half of the course when it comes to me.

And, you know, it sets us up for this week where we've seen him in Angola as well. The key thing I think about the other key takeaway from those pictures was that there was no communication secretary or representative from Williams team, either private secretary or press secretary. And I think that gives a very clear insight

into Harry's acknowledgement, and perhaps even Buckingham Palace and the King's acknowledgement that as far as any kind of breakthrough with William is concerned there at the moment as things stand now, zero prospect of that. Harry's lot didn't even try. Zero desire. Yeah, didn't even, or Harry's I don't think, I mean Harry probably knows that it wouldn't take place.

They haven't even tried to reach out to them. I suspect Harry is keen to meet Inroads there with his brother more so than his brother is with him. Well, someone close to both the brothers described it to me this week has said that without William's blessing there can be no true reconciliation. Which I thought was really interesting because I think they can be some way of patching up that relationship with the king to some extent. But as a means to kind of securing any lasting connection to the family, obviously he needs to have Williams' support, but I just don't think that's likely anytime soon.

I think the best Harry can hope for is that when he's next here in September, he gets to see his father for more than 30 minutes, which is when he last saw him last January. That would be progress for Harry and the King. But while this meeting does look to be progress, the fact that it's been leaked and it's all over the press and clearly they had a tip off beforehand. Could slightly set things back. You know, it doesn't bode well for building that trust going forward. And it's going to make each side of what comes out when he next is over.

Maybe it was a good old fashioned tip, but you know, there's only a few people who knew about that meeting, so it'd be quite easy to figure out who leaked it. We're getting our magnifying glasses out as we speak. And just pivoting a little bit, but still staying with Harry, he's been following in the footsteps of his mother, Diana, Princess of Wales, in Angola with the Halo Trust. Looking very much like he was on a royal visit. Looking like he was on a royal visit in Angola, reminiscent every time he goes to Angola,

it is of course so reminiscent of those images of Diana, Princess of Wales in Angola, walking through landmine territory with that visor on, representing the Halo Trust. And that was such a poignant trip because it was just before she died. And we saw Harry in Angola in 2019 on that trip to Southern Africa, which I was on. And were you on that trip? No, I wasn't on that one. That was a really... It was an interesting trip.

Did you go to Angola? I didn't go to Angola. Only about two people went and they got stuck there because all the flights were cancelled coming back. We did Southern Africa, he went to Angola on his own, Megan stayed behind in Johannesburg and then on to Cape Town. Because Archie was such a small baby. He was very small, but it was really interesting talking to Harry and his team when he came back about following in his mother's footsteps. And at that stage he was the same age as his mother was when she made that same journey. Yeah, it was.

35. Every time he makes that pilgrimage to Angola you feel the tug of the work he still feels he has to do in his mother's memory, the strong tug towards reminding people that he is his mother's son. You know, when he first went off solo, when they set up their first website, you know, it said I am my mother's son, as if we need reminding. But it clearly that work that she did and the messaging around and the imagery around it is so resonant of the good stuff that Harry does, the stuff that he wants to be remembered for, the things that he wants people to see him doing actively out there, beyond Invictus, beyond the battles with the media,

beyond the battles with the Home Office. And I think when you see him walking through the landmines in those images, you feel like that's Harry back in his natural home. Yeah, and him meeting the president as well. I think it's interesting when Diana did that, because of course she was sort of on the outside of the royal family to some extent by that stage. People had a go at it for going political, didn't they? Yeah, Earl Howe said that she was a loose cannon to Her Majesty's government and that she shouldn't be doing that, that she was meddling with politics.

But within a few months of her having done that there was the Ottawa Treaty. Over a hundred countries signed up to... She got it done. To the treaty, over a hundred countries signed up to... She got it done. To the treaty, exactly, to make sure that those landmines were no longer made and no longer used. So the fact that he's recreating this, I think, is all credit to him and it couldn't have come at a more poignant time. I don't think given that we've seen his charity Centre Bali completely disintegrate, really, and him and his co-founder, Princeso, and all

the trustees have walked and that's in his mother's name. Do you think that's linked slightly to the fact that, you know, we haven't seen him in Angola since 2019. This is just a sort of reminder of the charity I set up, you know, in my, pretty much in my mother's name, has gone awry in a very public, very messy toxic way. It's almost like he's sort of reminding us of, you know, these are the other links to my mother that are still good and still work and there's still work to do and there's been so many landmines cleared in Angola, you know, that famous image of where she's walking through is now a really busy bustling town it was when he went

back in 2019. But it's like he's reminding people of the good work that he that he still is able to do. Yeah, I think so. I think it rather than it just being a kind of cynical PR PR PR photo op, I think probably these things are organized quite far in advance. If you want to get a team out to Angola that is probably not just a kind of a knee jerk thing, is it? But he does seem to be making some headway. And I think the you're right right this is where he can add value as they say where he can remind everybody of his mother's legacy talk about cement his own I suppose in the same process and again he's not there with his wife he's

a source has been saying to other reporters this week that he's not gonna bring her here, he's not gonna take her there. Yeah. But actually I think it's, you know, we increasingly see Harry and Meghan doing more and more work separately and we're reminded as people around them say just because they're a married couple they don't have to do every single engagement together in the same way that William and Kate don't do, they very often do separate engagements and I think for him Angola, the Halo Trust, Landmines has always been his thing. He doesn't, Angola, the Halo Trust, Landmines, has always been his thing.

He doesn't need Megan there, the whole sort of sideshow that goes with that. I think it's more impactful just him on his own. It is, and I think it's also the fact that this is still him posturing as a royal, isn't it, very much? So, you know, we just talked about Meredith Maynes, who is head of his household. Royal setup, isn't it? It sounds very royal. And the fact that you go and you meet the president of a country and shake hands and do that kind of bilateral sort of meeting,

and then you go off and do your engagements. He's still following the royal playbook, which is all this time on. It's what he knows. It's what he knows. He can't give it up. And, you know, that's why he needs it. But he doesn't want to. He can't. He can't. He physically cannot do it.

He doesn't want to do it. Give up that. Give up the phrase household. That's what we thought that he was going want to. He can't, he physically cannot do it. He doesn't want to do it. Give up that, give up the phrase arsehole. That's what we thought that he was going off to do five plus years ago. But he hasn't stepped away from it. He's too ingrained in what he does and actually this is what he wants to be doing. Yeah. Now, moving to Wimbledon Centre Court, where the Princess of Wales made a number of welcome appearances this weekend.

She did. It was very good to see her back, not once, but twice on Centre Court last week. And with some pals in tow. With some buddies in tow. Last year we saw her just at the men's final. So she had had that big comeback, not comeback, comeback at Trooping the Colour last year. And then we saw her at the Wimbledon men's final. Of course she's patron of the All England Club, but she didn't come to women's final last year. This year she went to both on Saturday and Sunday. And again, when she arrived on Saturday, got an unbelievable standing ovation from most people on Centre Court. And she walked on. She came solo that day. She came with her press secretary and her private secretary Tom White and Lee Thompson and she looks genuinely, it's interesting, she looks genuinely surprised and moved when she gets these standing ovations

and I suppose when you walk onto Centre Court and all these people rise to their feet and sort of applaud you just for being there, it must feel quite overwhelming but I'm always intrigued to watch her response and she looked very... she stood up and she sort of waved at everyone and then the applause kept going. And she looked a little bit... she looked moved. Yeah, it was a nice... it was a very... It was a lovely response. It's quite unique that Wimbledon kind of hug...

Yeah. ...of love that comes back from the audience, isn't it? It's not like... it's, you know, when she goes to Ascot and of course, it came off the back of her pulling out of Royal Ascot quite recently. You don't get, it's much more demure, the response there, the applause. But what was nice to see was, you know, I was watching it and writing a piece for the Sunday Times on it, was we just heard her quite recently, like a few, a week before, at an engagement at Colchester, talking to fellow cancer patients,

talking about the reality of how she feels now, which is that she doesn't always feel great, even though she's finished treatment a while ago, the pressure of the expectation that you should be like on and ready to go all the time. And she talks about the pressure of putting the brave face on. And I think perhaps, you know, people who are aware of that and her speaking so personally as we talked about,

they understand a bit more now when they see her, what it takes to get there. And I felt like the sort of, you know, the intimacy between thousands of people standing on their feet and applauding her and her looking quite moved. Yeah, it was quite- And a little bit shocked.

And a little bit shocked. It was quite- It's quite a sweet response. She took it for granted. Her shoulders kind of went up like that. Yeah, a bit shocked. And a little bit shocked. It was quite, it's quite a sweet response. Her shoulders kind of went up like that. Yeah, a bit surprised. Yeah. I think it's also nice to see her doing something that she obviously really loves.

I mean, she doesn't really love the races, I don't think, going to Ascot and things like that. But Wimbledon is a real passion. William's been having a moment as well. The interaction between William and George and Charlotte and Kate in between each like when there were some mega points between Alcaraz and Yannick Sinner in the final when when William came with the kids as well what I loved was the camera would go to the real box and you could see William talking George through the point so saying well

that was interesting you know and you could see them both William and Kate slightly coaching their kids via Wimbledon men's final which I love and that's the ultimate tennis lesson isn't it? Well he's had Federer around, Prince George has had lessons from Federer hasn't he at Anmer Hall. Gets Federer around, he gets President Obama to come round and hang out with him in his gym jams. In his gym jams.

And yeah I mean the day before the first Wimbledon appearance, so on Friday, we had William at the Polo. Oh yes. And the internet sort of broke down a little bit, didn't it? With the fans and the... Oh, about possible goings. It was noted in our office that everybody online was saying how hot he looked. I don't think they were just talking about the temperature. Were they not?

No. We normally get that response when William appears in a helicopter with a blue berion in his military fatigues. Yeah, this is on that, you know, this is Polo William. Polo William. Military William. Military Prince. Military Prince. Action Man.

There's a line of dolls here. Yes. Will's week in uniforms and polo gear. This could be some branded merch, Roya. I'm on it. How do we trademark it? I think someone might have done it is my hunch. But they both look, you know, after the awful year they had last year, which she described as brutal and such, like, they do seem to be coming out of it as a family, looking pretty happy and relaxed.

Maybe that is a very good brave face they're putting on for the public, but it's certainly a convincing one. Now Camilla's made a bit of history because Camilla has become the first female member of the Royal Family to be awarded the honorary title of Vice Admiral in the Navy. She was down in Plymouth today where she was taking part in a ceremony for HMS Astute which is a kind of flagship submarine to celebrate the end of its first commission. It's the longest commission in Royal Navy history. She was there to celebrate that, to commemorate that.

Essentially, it's an attack submarine with nuclear capability. And she was awarded... JADEYETTE Drumroll. Fanfare. CLAIRE She was awarded a role of cling film. JADEYETTE What an honour. CLAIRE On a special holder so you can easily take it out. With their perforated edges. Yeah, because it's so annoying isn't it when you lose the end of it and it sort of wraps around. I bet that never happens for a royal. It said first

in class, second to none. And why did she get cling film? Well she sort of mentioned it in her speech. It's niche. It's a niche gift. There have been several niche royal gifts. Do you think that will be disclosed in the next, gift list next year? I really hope so. I do too. Because it's going to be a highlight. In her speech she said, within this ship's company, those extraordinary endeavours range from the innovation of one petty officer to code-cutting-edge, long-range communication software,

through to the resourceful solution to maintain a vacuum in the middle of the Indian Ocean with cling film. So to commemorate this amazing feat of Royal Navy ingenuity, they have presented her with a roll of cling film so that she too may be able to do such feats, maybe all just wrap some stuff in her kitchen. Do we think that's made at home with her to Ray Mill in Wiltshire, her private home in Wiltshire and has been put on the kitchen counter? I really hope it has. She looks really thrilled with it. Because it's something she can use. Well that's a great talking point isn't it? The King famously hates cling film.

Why? Because it's plastic. And un-environmentally friendly. You can get plastic-free stuff but it doesn't actually work very well. He's famously had quite major reactions to when he sees cling film. It's quite notorious things. Not a myth. I think William's got some made out of seaweed. Almost certainly. Almost certainly. Well, if not why not William? I'm not sure I've ever heard cling film mentioned in a royal speech before.

Certainly not by a queen. That sounds like a challenge to find a niche. Niche. Who knew? Anyway. So there you go. Congratulations Your Majesty on the appointment of the title of Vice Admiral and your cling film. And congratulations Your Majesty on your birthday which lands on 17th of July. They have released a picture, happy birthday to you, they've released a picture taken by Chris Jackson other photographers are available. Former guest on this podcast and it's a very interesting listen if you haven't listened to it, talking all about the King and Queen. Nice pictures of her at Ray Mill, her private home where she has everything her own way and it's not Charles's place at Highgrove, it's her own house.

And she actually is kind of imitating Princess of Wales, remember when she did that Vogue cover and she's leaning over a kind of a field, a fence in a field looking very kind of chill. Is that? Camilla Chills. Yeah, Camilla looking very natural. There was another lovely picture of her this week with her new dog Moley. Yes. We like to see Moley's progress. At battersy dogs and cats home like you mentioned. Exactly. Moley, who it turns out is all sorts of different breeds rolled into one. Mysterious Moley. Scruffs. She likes that. Humble. She loves it. Well that's it from us this week. A leaked royal summit, a standing ovation for Wimbledon's most devoted royal spectator, and Queen Camilla sailing into history as the navy's newest Vice Admiral. And we'll be back next week with more Royal headlines,

more behind the scenes insights and maybe another mysterious balcony meeting. Until then, as the Royal motto goes, keep calm, carry on. And if you're planning a reunion of your own, maybe don't do it on a terrace with a view. In the meantime, if you'd like to get in touch, we promise we won't leak it or maybe we will. Email us at theroyals at thetimes.co.uk. Bye Kate. Bye Roya.