The Royals with Roya and Kate - Is Kate the monarchy's best hope?

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

In a year marked by scandal and uncertainty, Catherine, Princess of Wales, has emerged as a figure of quiet resolve and renewed influence within the Royal Family. Roya and Kate unpack the year - from remission to the royal spotlight - and what it all reveals about the Queen she will become. Plus, Prince Harry’s UK security faces fresh review, and Meghan reconnects with her estranged father in a week of highly personal Sussex headlines.Presenters: Roya Nikkhah, royal editor for The Sunday Times, and Kate Mansey, royal editor of The TimesProducer: Robert WallaceEditor: Stephen TitheringtonImage: Getty Images Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals from The Times and the Sunday Times with me, Roy Nika and me, Kate Mansi. Today we look at a brighter side to an otherwise turbulent year for the monarchy. It's been a year of public discomfort and growing questions about what the monarchy is for and what it needs to be. But amid all that, a very different royal narrative has been quietly taking shape, more personal, more grounded maybe, and arguably more consequential for the few. future of the royal family. Yeah, we can mark 2025 as the year where Catherine, the Princess of Wales, stepped back into the Royal Spotlight, carefully, deliberately and on her own terms. It began in January with a visit to the Royal Marsden Hospital in West London, where she'd received cancer treatment the year before. Kate met patients, spoke about the road to recovery and she

thanked staff for the care she was given there. Later that day, she confirmed in a message on social media that she was in remission. She spoke of her shock, gratitude, and spoke of a year ahead that she hoped would be fulfilling. Now last week, that return culminated at Westminster Abbey for the princesses together at Christmas carol service. It's easy to overlook the significance of a carol concert, but in a year where so much energy has been spent managing crises, Kate's year has pointed to something entirely different. Quiet consistency, strategic, empathy and a princess who seems to know exactly where she's going now. So this week, we're stepping back to ask what Kate's year really tells us, not just about

her recovery, but about her positioning and the queen she will one day become. And later, we'll also turn to the Sussexes as Prince Harry's UK security comes under fresh review. And Megan finally reaches out to her estranged father following a serious illness. Two very different stories, but both part of the Royal's shifting narrative. So let's begin with the Princess of Wales. And there's no place like the present just in the last few weeks. She's been at the heart of some of the most visible royal moments of the year. So what does that tell us? Let's think about together at Christmas. We were both there at Westminster Abbey on Friday. We saw Prince William joining her there and the three children.

What did you think was different about it this year? Do you think were? It was a bit thinner on the ground with members of the Royal Family, if I'm honest. It was a lovely, lovely occasion. But it wasn't, it didn't have quite as many members of the Royal Family as I thought there would be. So there was no Princess Eugenie or Princess Beatrice. We were told they were invited, but unfortunately couldn't attend. Sophie was there, but no Prince Edward.

The King and Queen never come. We never really know why. But it was, you know, it had all the traditions of the last four years, didn't it? And she talked to some of the guests about how the children were very excited to come because it's become a family tradition for them. And it had the sort of staple of Prince William doing a reading, wonderful performances. It had Chewy Edgier for giving a reading. Kate Winslet did that wonderful reflection on Christmas and love and friendship.

The theme, I suppose, reflected a lot of what Kate's new messaging is, post-cancer during her recovery. Love, the theme of love. And she published that letter, didn't she, just before the Carol service, which was very emotional and talked about love in all its forms and love and communities. And I think that carous service this year, while it has become very traditional, the theme of love that some people might think is a little bit gushy and others might think is, oh, maybe that's sending us a message about what she sees as a priority now, I think goes to the heart of Kate pre-cancer and Kate post-cancer, which we have seen a lot of messaging from this year.

right, isn't it? I think she did say it becomes something of a family tradition. I think it takes on a new poignancy this year and last year after her cancer treatment. Last year we had Paloma Faith, one of the performers, and she chatted to the princess and said, gosh, you know, your cancer, that's been awful, hasn't it? And awful for the children. And she ended up being quite open, didn't she? And talking about it quite a long. I love seeing Eugene Levy there. I thought that was interesting. He's the guy who obviously interviewed William for his Apple TV show and William was talking about the change he was going to bring. And then we saw the first meeting that we've seen anyway, at least, between Kate. And she said, oh, you know my husband

quite well now. I hate to be like to talk to you. But what I loved even more was the reaction when Zara and Mike Tyndall were walking past. And Mike Tyndall suddenly clocked Eugene even clearly, he must be a big fan of either American Pie or the TV series, Shets, because he just double, did a huge double take. It was like, look, Sarah, there's Eugene Lovian, yanked her back to go and talk to him. I love that. I thought that was very funny. It's very wholesome, isn't it? It's very wholesome. It's going to be broadcast on ITV on Christmas Eve and again on Christmas Day. Yeah. I'd be really interested to know what our listeners and viewers make of it with that theme of love. So we also had last week, as well as obviously the Kate's Carols, we had the

German state visit, which we talked about last week with Tom and with Anley. But, you know, front and centre of that was the Wales is, weren't they? They were there to meet the German president and his wife at Heathrow. They're increasingly front and centre now in these state visits. They are increasingly supporting the King and Queen. And we had Kate looking, you know, show stopping in her outfit with the Victoria that Queen Victoria had received from Prince Albert. What do you make of kind of the increasing deployment of William and Kate in these visits, particularly of her and where she sat you know, at everything. I suppose it's, she's so important, isn't she, visually?

And as part of the structure to the whole thing as such a great kind of ambassador for the family. Having been away, obviously, while she had her cancer treatment and then for that period of recovery, it's really interesting to see her back out doing a lot of those things, actually, in quite a high-profile way and really seeing them as Prince and Princess of Wales as the kind of deputy heads of state in, you know, front and centre in a way that, perhaps we haven't acknowledged before because everyone was focused on the new king. But like I say, they're always, they're dispatched to be the kind of the first ambassadors,

the first envoys, aren't they? So in this case, they went to Heathrow to meet the president of Germany, Frank Walter Steinmeyer and his wife. When Trump came to town, you know, when he was in Windsor, in the helicopters, they were the first to greet him out of the helicopter. So I think that's, that kind of role as ambassadors. It would be interesting to see that kind of developing over the next. year as she's clearly, you know, she seems to look good, hopefully is feeling a lot better.

There's an interesting new tradition that's emerged for these state visits that we've noticed, which is at the state banquet, when we go and see the table preview and we see where everyone's sitting and some of the placements make us laugh, particularly the particularly who's sitting next to Claudia Sheper? Oh, it's the Kirstama. We thought there was another Claudia that the Buckingham Palace Press Secretary was next to me. We thought, has the King and Queen's Press Secretary You put himself next Claudia Schiffen. No, no, not quite. But there is a, after the state banquet preview,

before the dinner actually starts, there is now an official portrait, a photo put out, of William and Kate. It happened before the French one, didn't it? It happened before the American state banquet, and it happened again last week. There was a very sort of glorious photo of the two of them in their glad rags.

Dressed up in their togs. Taken at Frogmore House. We were told not Forest Lodge, then you home, taken at Frogmore House. But it's about messaging again, isn't it? It's about, obviously, the King and Queen are the hosts of the visit, but it's also messaging from Kensington Palace and from the Wales is to say, here we are, we're on our way and we're going to be focal points too.

Well, it's funny Anna Lee talking last week, wasn't it? Our German correspondent who we had on the show, I think it was actually before we got onto the podcast saying, it's a shame because there was a floral arrangement in front of the Princess of Wales, which meant that we couldn't really see her interaction, she said, with the President of Germany, unlike with Donald Trump, when we very much saw the interaction between the two of them and those pictures were priceless, I wonder it's now become quite a thing to sit next to the

Princess of Wales if you're the visiting guest. Do you think that's the hot seat? Do you think that's the big ticket seat rather than... You never mind Claudia Schiffer. I mean, that's the hot ticket, really. Kate, sitting next to Kate. It's true. I mean, Macron looked absolutely delighted, didn't he?

He always looked delighted. He kept winking out of her. of that. Yes. I think, well, whether or not Claudia Schiffer or Cater's the hot seat, one thing is for sure is that she is continuing this journey of recovery, obviously and wonderfully feeling much better, but has made a lot of the fact that her recovery is ongoing. And what has been interesting to watch this year are, I think, the engagements and the events she's prioritised and those that she hasn't. So she has been at all the state visits so far this year. And in as much as she can be.

She hasn't done all the elements of every single one, but she's been at the state banquets and done engagements around them where she can. Everything to do with remembrance is obviously. Everything to do with remembrance. We saw her at trooping the colour, but obviously the following week she pulled out of Royal Ascot. And then the following week after that,

she was doing an engagement at a care centre for cancer patients, planting plants in a garden, talking about it not being as simple as finishing your treatment. And then everyone expects you to crack on and put your game face on and actually it's much hard than that. And I think what we have seen emerge from her this year is a clear signalling of,

this is what I'm going to prioritise now going forwards. This is what I'm not going to prioritize going forwards. She said, my priority has got to be staying cancer-free and the children and family life. But like you say, that's a very good point, that she's now going to, okay, when she returns to work, there are priorities there too, because she can't do everything.

She doesn't want to, you know, run in and exhaust herself. Early years has been quite, She hasn't it? You were with an engagement with her a few weeks ago where she gave that, her first public speech in two years. Yes. So tell me a bit more about that and what that was like. She seemed very, very confident. And I think even the night before, you know, the Palisades weren't kind of briefing out that she was going to speak because they wanted to give her the opportunity to sort of decide that night and the following morning when she woke up. But she seemed very self-assured. As we know, this is one of the areas that she's been keeping in touch with, even before we saw her return to public duty. They were some of those first recordings on the court circular of her official duties were those behind-the-scenes meetings with the Centre for Early Childhood, with Christian Guy who runs the centre. That's what was happening behind the scenes at Windsor Castle.

And she thanked him, actually, for what she said was holding the fort while she was away. And there has been a lot of conversations between her and the centre. And she's kept in touch with all the research and all that sort of thing. So it was interesting to see she was obviously a speech she was determined to make because she didn't need to. There was a sort of get out of jail free card if she wanted it. And no one would have blamed her for no one was expecting her to speak. But she did make that speak.

She was keen to, clearly. The following week after that, I did an engagement with her at the Anna Freud Centre, again, a children's mental health charity with the focus that day on sort of boosting early years interaction and health visitors for young children and families. Yeah, that was like a new launching. Yeah. Yeah. So it feels like the priority for her in part of her sort of recovery journey is early years, definitely, and cancer engagements that focus around sort of, you know, patients who've gone through what she's gone through talking to them sort of on that level. That Royal Marsden engagement was, I thought, really poignant in so many ways. And actually, what was really interesting last week was someone I know, Catherine Field, who some of our listeners and viewers might remember was photographed with the Princess of Wales sitting in the chemotherapy. therapy chair with the cold cup on receiving her treatment during that engagement. It made a lot of the

front pages. And Catherine, you know, who talked to Kate about her cancer and about Kate's cancer and they talked about portals and having them fitted for their treatment. She was invited to the Cowell Service last week and she was in the congregation. I know she was very touched and invited. There was a lot of thought that went into the Cowell Service that people perhaps even looking at home might not have noticed. So future talent, which was the late Duchess of Kent's charity. There's lots of things that have been really considered about that. You know, you talk about early years. You talk about, you know, those pillars of her work. But, I guess, running through all this is her kind of central theme, isn't it, of kind of love and togetherness and taking time to smell

the flowers, essentially, and be with nature and be with one another. And if you pick up all the little threads of everything she's working on, that's what sort of joins it all together. I think the other thing about her that I've noticed in the last few months has been the tonal shift in some of the things she's been saying. And where I think I've really seen that is in some of these Mother Nature video series that have been released. And this is a series of videos that she's released on the YouTube channel, her YouTube channel about nature and the importance of nature. And the one that was released recently at Winter, the language, the voiceover from Kate, was really interesting because the phrases there were,

about how she had learnt the importance of letting go of what is no longer needed. You know, the purpose of finding clarity in what's important going forward, letting go of what's no longer needed. And I thought, for someone who's the future queen, that is basically, I think Kate saying, I now know having been through a race-oist illness and I'm now recovering, I know what's important to me going forward and I know what's not. I know what I'm going to focus on and what I'm not.

It is fascinating. It is fascinating. It's clearly the impact. that any serious illness would have on anybody, but it's a kind of seeing it writ large and seeing her being so open about her focus and her priority, you might think, oh, that's what any princess you would expect them to say,

peace and love and understanding. But it's unusual. It is unusual for a member of the royal family, a senior member of the royal family, to be speaking in such terms and to be doing voiceovers on their own mini-movies, it's quite a bold step. So if we step back for a moment

and just look at what the year that we've seen emerge from Catherine and the way she's managed it, what it actually means for the monarchy, because the King's health is uncertain. We know he's still having weekly cancer treatment. He's still very busy, but he's still undergoing treatment for cancer. There's no doubt that William and Kate's role is growing. So where does that leave Kate in the shape of what comes next? As of us chatting today, according to a you-goff poll recently, Kate is the most popular royal, currently tracking at 68% popularity, although all the royals have taken a little bit of hit in light of recent scandal of the former Prince Andrew, the former Duke of York. In light of, I mean, you and I have talked so much in recent months about everything.

Everything about Andrew, about the scandal around that, about how it's affected the monarchy. We've heard from, you know, American experts, we've heard from people in Germany, we've heard from our investigative reporters who've been working on it about where we think that is impacting and making in raids into the monarchy in a negative way. So how important do you think the sort of re-emergence of Kate and her enduring popularity with the public so far? How important is that for the monarchy structurally going forward? It's so crucial, isn't it? If you want to bring the public with you and she's the most popular member, let's keep her happy. I mean, I think that's what you would hope people at the palace will be thinking a king and queen would be thinking not only that but that

she's raising a future king as well along with William of course but it is really interesting and I think it's a huge she is their kind of star asset in many ways it's a lot of pressure isn't it it's a lot of pressure and I mean most people cannot understand or comprehend the public scrutiny that that role has some celebrities might have an inkling of it, I expect, but not really to the extent of what she has had to endure, really. And here we are talking about her. But it's so crucial to the popularity of the royal family. And I suppose the other question then would be to ask, why is she so popular?

Obviously, you know, she hasn't put a foot wrong. She looks great. She says the right things. What is it that people really are drawn to with the Princess of Wales? And I think part of it is that she brings this kind of more of an ordinary background. to the family. I think there's a lot of love for Prince William in general

in the public. He's normally the top on the UGov polls and she's very, very slightly behind him. She's just pips him. So now, yeah. Sorry, William.

That's not like gone down at home. They're quite competitive, aren't they? So now she's in the poll position. And they do keep an eye on polls. They don't need to respond to them, but they absolutely keep an eye on those popularity polls. They do. They have to.

Because even though they're not voted in like politicians, they still need the public. vote, if you like. They still need the public popularity. But unlike politicians, they don't really have a tangible way of measuring it apart from to monitor polls like these. So I think what is it that she's bringing and how do they make that stick? How do they keep her in that position? How do they keep them being so popular? But I think it is that more of an ordinary sense that she brings this stability to William. She brings a sense of an ordinary family. People can relate to her in some

ways but also at the same time she is she's just Kate she's just Kate but she's also incredibly royal I mean she looks the part um she's elegant she's graceful she's everything anybody you know assumes a princess ought to be doing brilliantly well and I think you know slowly does it this is a job where she doesn't have a retirement age and not only is she tried to keep William stable so that he can be head of state she's thinking ahead to Prince George and what will happen to him that must be the weight of the kind of weight of motherhood for anybody is huge. But for her, I think, gosh, you know, you better not get that wrong. You kind of think there's pressure of that and everything that she's, I think people can see that she's doing a good job. I mean, why do you think that

she's in that position? Why do you think she's top of the pops? I think she's top of the pops because she's a very good mixture of relatable to some degree in terms of, you know, raising three children and talking about the perils of mobile phones and screen time and all of that. And But also, she doesn't give too much away. I know we've just mentioned that we've heard a lot from her in terms of messaging, letting go of what's no longer needed. But you still, I think there's a mystique about Kate that the late queen had.

Yes. There is, you know, in the way that almost with the king, we kind of know so much more about what he thought about, a lot of things. I think a lot of people still feel Kate is, it's an interesting mix of... Just slightly enigmatic. Living kind of an almost ordinary life, but then there's a lot about her that we don't know.

She's quite guarded in the way that she sort of presents herself and her messaging. It's very carefully done. And I think, but I think the sort of few issues she's chosen like, you know, early years and social media and the perils of screen turn that we should write a whole essay on the other day. I think that resonates with people. And I think also the decision by Kate and William to prioritise family over duty, most people when you talk to them about it, certainly when I talk to them about it, feel that that's been the right decision.

Mm-hmm. There has been some suggestion in some Royal Quarters. Now, I don't agree with this. There's been a suggestion that there's been some sort of more regal rebranding of Kate over the last few years, being more named Catherine, you know. I was going to say, I mean, should we, we still call her Kate? Well, I'm going to clear this up for our listeners and our views because the BBC got into a little bit of hot water last week when it referred to her on hair as Kate Middleton. She is obviously, she hasn't been Kate Middleton since April 2011. that her name has changed.

People still call her Kate Middleton. She isn't. But on whether she should be called Kate or Catherine, when I wrote a profile of her in, I remember, 40th birthday, I spoke to one of her very close friends and said, Kate or Catherine, which is it? And this is what I was told from a very close friend of hers. An old friend scoffs at reports she requested a regal rebrand

from Kate to Catherine upon her engagement. Quote, I call her Catherine. her family and her old Moorba crew call her Catherine. At uni, she became more of a Kate among friends of Williams. She's Kate. William calls her by both names. Ruth is fine. People who say you shouldn't call her Kate,

I think you should look back readily available on YouTube to the engagement interview in which William calls her Kate. Harry always calls her Kate. Harry still caught her Kate the other day. I just like to say there's nothing wrong with being called Kate. It's a great name. So, you know, I mean, does that make her more relatable, less relatable? But it's certainly a shift.

It's a rebrand. She will be a refresh of the brand. I'm sorry to tell you, Kate. She's not going to be known as Queen Kate. No. But she is known as Princess Kate and lots of quarters of the American media. Princess Kate is a no-no. She is not.

That's reserved. Sorry, Catherine, that's reserved for me. So, yeah, I mean, it's interesting to see they've did this slow positioning. Like I say, it's still quite careful, isn't it? the fact that it does always seems to me that William and Kate, Catherine, are taking a leaf out of the late Queen's book

when it comes to how to navigate this. Perhaps don't give too much away. I think there's a lot of that. And control. And control as well. The first pictures of you wearing your tiara and gown when you step out with Donald Trump or whether you step out with the president

of Germany, if that first image people see is one that you've controlled, you've curated and you've that picture out there, you're already ahead of whatever else might come, whatever face the camera might happen to capture as you're walking down, the procession down into St. George's Hall for the banquet where they've been held at Windsor. It's about control. It's about sort of shaping that narrative. Increasingly we see, you know, there's an engagement today where we've learned that Williams done an engagement and they've put out pictures of it rather than inviting journalists

to witness it as it takes place. That's right. Visit to the Welsh Guards. Well, if the UGov poll is anything to go by, Kate, Catherine, Princess Catherine, the Princess of Wales, she's doing something right because she's, you know, the popularity is enjoying with the public. So we wish her happy and continued recovery. It's not been the only thing that's been keeping us busy. In other Royal News, it is the Sussexes who have again dominated other royal stories this week, despite having stepped away from their royal role. We've been hearing from Harry and Megan, both making the headlines. Prince Harry made a surprise cameo on the late show with Stephen Colbert. He appeared in a sketch where Harry seemed to be auditioning to play a Hallmark-style Christmas Prince, and he quipped.

You Americans are obsessed with Christmas movies, and you're clearly obsessed with royalty. And he joked that America had even elected a king, which seemed to be a jab at President Donald Trump. And Katie Miller, a former Trump aide in return, criticized Harry on X, saying, if you don't love America, you don't need to be here. Ouch. What did you make of that appearance? Do you think it was funny? Not particularly. Well, it came during a week when we heard the security arrangements for Harry here are under review.

So this is something he's been pushing for for a long time. We know that he wrote to the Home Secretary a while ago asking for this review. And now Ravec, that's the Royal and VIP Executive Committee. A risk assessment is underway ahead of a scheduled court appearance by Harry in February. Yeah, follows the letter that he sent, didn't it? Asking both the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister to intervene. Ravik operates independently with no ministerial input. So they are now dealing with that.

But Harry's last formal assessment was back in 2020 during the time of him departing the Royal Family, departing the UK and trying to renegotiate his role. And we know what he thinks about the current status quo because we heard, of course, early this year in May when he lost that final high court appeal. He lost the right to have his former protection reinstated. He did that interview that very candid, very emotional, very fiery into the BBC saying the decision by the judges and the court and that all of that was a good old-fashioned establishment stitch up, calling for reconciliation with his family, but clearly very angry at the decision and angry, you know, he felt that the King had perhaps intervened or not intervened enough on his behalf to get it done.

Nick King would say that it's not his role to intervene that constitutionally he can't do so, but his legal team, Harry's legal team had argued that the process lacked expert input and was unfairly tailored and the government, for its part, maintains the system is rigorous and proportionate, but hasn't commented on the specifics of his case. And the reason it matters for Harry doesn't. it is because he says he'd like to come back here much more and bring his family with him. So, of course, the kids have not been here. They've not been here since 2022.

So they've not seen the king, their grandfather for more than three years. Harry wants to bring them back. He says it's not safe for me to do that unless I have my security reinstated as before. So a lot rests on that decision, doesn't it? Which we think we're going to get at some point in the next month or so. Yeah. So it'll be essentially them kind of reassessing his level of the threat level. They see against him and then providing security or not on the basis of that.

There has been another big story brewing this week as well from Montecito in California, of course. And that is Megan finally reaching out to her father, Thomas Markle, who has been very unwell in the Philippines where he now lives, having undergone major surgery. It was reported that he'd undergone a leg amputation after he'd had a severe blood clot. And then it played out, Kate, didn't it? Yeah. So Thomas Markle told the mail on Sunday, please let my. gone's be bygones. I don't want to die estranged. It's time to set aside the past and make our family whole again. That seemed to be a very kind of a plea from the heart to Megan, who we

understanding really hasn't had much contact, whatever contact he's had has been, we don't know over the last few years. So the backwards and forwards over the weekend and into this week was that Megan's team said she had actually tried to reach out to him quite a few times since the wedding in 2018, but hadn't been able to reach him. Thomas Markle's family, his other daughter, Samantha, his son, Thomas Michael Jr., were disputing this. She said that she had reached out to him again. Yes.

Late into Saturday night when the Mail on Sunday story dropped, Megan's spokesperson was saying, well, they're saying that she hasn't called him. No, she hasn't because there's a reporter there and she's been trying to find out which hospital in the Philippines he's in. but they won't tell her and the newspaper wouldn't tell her. And backwards and forwards and all this backwards and forwards went on

until yesterday morning and it was the Dutch Sussex spokesman saying that she had finally managed to get a letter personally delivered to him in hospital in the Philippines so she has finally been able to make contact. Because for one reason or another, the email she sent, they weren't sure if he had received.

And apparently he'd lost old-fashioned way. She'd lost his number. were told and what a saga. It's a saga. It's a, you know, it's a sad. It's a deeply personal saga being played out in a horrendously public way. So, a personal week for the Sussexes and one that reminds us how the modern royal family now stretches across continents, platforms and very different public lives. A year of difficult moments and quiet recalibrations, but perhaps one where the future shape of the monarchy has come into clear view. That's it from us this week on the Royals.

Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.