The Royals with Roya and Kate - Is the King Britain's Trump card?

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

Donald Trump has backtracked on his criticism of UK troops in the Afghan war. The US president’s change of tone came after concerns raised by King Charles through diplomatic channels – a move seen as a win for Britain’s soft power. Roya and Kate ask Katy Balls whether the monarchy is Britain’s way of staying at the diplomatic table, and what it could mean for the "special relationship" ahead of a key US visit.Guest: Katy Balls, Washington editor for The Times & The Sunday Times.Image: Getty Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals, the podcast where we give you insight into what happens behind the palace walls and why it matters. I'm Royne Carr. And I'm Kate Manzi. After weeks of tension between Donald Trump and Europe, the US president has now publicly praised Britain's sacrifice in Afghanistan. A climb down after his remarks about NATO troops caused outrage in the UK. That shift is being seen in Westminster as a potential soft power winner. for the monarchy, following reports that concerns were raised to the president by King Charles himself. So this week, we're asking what this moment tells us about the King's influence

and what it could mean for relations between the two countries. And could it shape the King's relationship with Trump ahead of a pivotal US royal visit? Joining us from across the pond to help answer these difficult questions is Katie Balls, Washington editor for the Times and the Sunday Times and host of the Times new American politics podcast, The State of It USA. Katie, welcome to the Royals. Thank you so much for joining us from the land of the White House and President Trump. Now, Katie, you landed in Washington around a year ago as the Times as Washington editor, and you wrote an absolutely brilliant line long after that, which is there's a trick that seasoned Washington journalists have up their sleeve, where they're running out of time in an interview with President

Trump and they want to keep him talking. They ask about the royal family. What do you think that tells us about Donald Trump, Katie? I think it speaks to a few things. We know he's an anglophile, grew up in America, but his mother was of Scottish descent and he's very proud of that. So he has a relationship with the United Kingdom, but specifically the royal family when it comes to things he likes about the UK, I think is top of the list. And he has spoken in the past at one of his first ever memories is watching his mother watch the coronation of Queen Elizabeth and just seeing how transfixed his mother was by the spectacle. His dad wasn't very interested at all, but it's a very fond memory of his and therefore we see time and time again that Donald Trump doesn't listen to

too many people. I mean, he might choose to, but he doesn't worry about what too many people think, but the one group where he does seem to actively want them to like him is the royal family. So you're brief, although it's going to be about politics, it's going to be about President Trump, there's going to be one eye looking over here, finding out what the royals have been doing. And now you're the co-host of a new Times podcast, the State of it USA, which launched this week. Congratulations. And we're just a year now into the second Trump presidency. Why do you think this point in time is such a pivotal moment for him, for the country? Well, of course, we're in the 250th year, which is celebrating the independence of the United States. There was always going to be a lot going on in America to mark that and also reaching out to the UK on it.

I think as someone who was reporting on British politics for around 10 years in Westminster and ended up moving to D.C., as you say, it was partly because I felt everything was getting back to America anyway. Donald Trump owns the space so much that even what you think is a British politics story or a D.C. where you think you know what you're going to write would end up being about Donald Trump and what it meant for the UK after he sent a true social that's some on Godly hour. So I thought, just get here and do it from here. And I think that we're seeing that, you know, 2026 has already been very much dominated a lot by what Donald Trump has decided to do on foreign affairs. And particularly that UK-US relationship we're seeing as under strain in various ways,

whether it's the Paul's tech partnership, whether it's, you know, the threat that's now gone. of Taras over Greenland, Chagos Islands. We are seeing more and more UK-US and questions about how it can continue. And I think that King Charles, his visit to the US and how the royal family gets involved in this, even though the state visit of last year out the way is going to be an interesting part of it. So lots for you to report on, lots for you to talk about in your podcast. But before we get into the bigger picture, let's bring audiences up to speed because it has

been a pretty extraordinary few weeks in UK-US relationships, hasn't it? What does it look like from where you're sitting, Katie? Well, I think from here it's almost, it's just another day in Trump world because he just dominates the space. He talks about so many things in one day. There's, in a way, so much press access. Like, there's a lot of criticism of the press if you think back to his piggy comment last year. But also the level of interaction with the media, whether it is Trump just turning up at a media briefing or his press secretary and then leave, it means there's a constant flow of information

and often it's deciphering what you should actually be paying attention to, what's just noise, what do they want you to talk about, what do they not want you to look at, which you should be looking at and so forth. But I think when we just think about the past week or so, it has become very much a UK European focus. So a lot of what he said has been about European allies.

We know that Donald Trump is very critical of Europe and that has been growing and growing from the Whitehead National Security strategy. But now it feels as though, particularly at Davos last week, which I was at, it really became the Greenland show. And he talked down from that threat. But I think there's still a lot to unpick when it came to his comments on the troops, on NATO troops, when it came to the Chegos Islands deal and what that means. And also what damage this is doing, potentially, you know, is it temporary?

Or is this doing long-term damage to how the UK and US interact? Well, that's special relationship between the EU. UK and US, which everyone always makes so much about diplomatically when we have a state visit here or a state visit there, the special relationship, which we saw play out with all the pomp and pageantry in Windsor in September last year when the Trump shit rolled into town. And Kate and I were following that out in Windsor. And it was extraordinarily the way, you know, it was more troops than ever before. It was bigger.

It was all the things Donald Trump wanted. But that came under extraordinary scrutiny last week within the space of 24 hours, then 48 hours, as Donald Trump started making renewed comments about Greenland. And then, as you say, weighed in to the NATO troops and started talking about the troops. And at the beginning of last week, when he was really going to town on Greenland and having a go and talking about raising tariffs, that state visit, which hasn't even been announced yet, but is widely assumed to be happening in April and something that the palace aren't, you know, denying, looked suddenly under threat. And then the week played out in quite an interesting way and Donald Trump started sort of reacting and changing what he was saying.

Talk us through how that played out over there as well, Katie. Yes, so Donald Trump made these, well, he made lots of comments as ever, but in the past week of the comments he made, he obviously made comments threatening tariffs on countries that opposed his plans to take over Greenland, then he walked back. But I think the most controversial thing, if we're going to pick, that he said last week,

was about NATO troops. And this idea they stood a bit far back in Afghanistan, suggesting that these countries, including the UK, the troops were not doing their bit, they were not equal to the Americans who were braver. And of course, this went down like a cup of cold sick. And you had a situation where Kirstama was probably the strongest in his criticism or his rebuke of Donald Trump saying the comments were wrong.

You had Prince Harry also coming out and putting out a statement in support of the troops. And really across the political spectrum, there was no one saying, hang on a minute, maybe Donald Trump has a point. Everyone in British politics came out very much against it. That's the firmest. We've seen Kirstama be with Trump hasn't. Because he is, when Donald Trump went in and took out Maduro from Venezuela, Kirstama just kept a very sort of quiet, steady line saying that it was a good thing

Maduro was gone, not really talking about the international law point, which seemed a little a gray area. But he really did go for him and say that his comments were insulting and frankly appalling. And then we had Prince Harry, who'd been here for a week in court, pretty competitive with a judge. We know that there's beef between Prince Harry and Trump. They've exchanged a war of words, Megan, Harry and Trump for years since they left the royal fold. But he said, and I'm going to read some of his statement.

Because this is someone who is the king's son. We know that Donald Trump reveres and respects the king, who served two tours in Afghanistan as a soldier. And he said, we'll just read a little bit of it. He said, in 2001, NATO invoked Article 5 for the first and only time in history. It meant that every allied nation was obliged to stand with the United States and Afghanistan in pursuit of our shared security. I lost friends there. I served there. And then he ended his statement by saying, those sacrifices deserve to be spoken about truthfully and with respect as we all remain united and loyal to the defence of diplomacy and peace. So it was a real shot across the bows to Donald

Trump. But it went further, didn't it, Katie? Because we then heard the son reported that the king had got a message to Donald Trump. What happened then? Yes. So we understand that the palace were clearly unhappy, the king was unhappy. And therefore you had a situation where I think through the foreign office, this was expressed and then went to the British embassy in Washington. And it was then on the British embassy in Washington to relay the message to the White House that the king was unhappy with the comments that Donald Trump had made. And I remember speaking to a few figures in D.C.

Around the time he made those comments and they're saying, you know, do you think we're going to get an apology? And I thought, no, Donald Trump doesn't really apologise. I think the best you're probably going to get is Trump just saying something different or claiming he hasn't said it or moving it on. Well, the closest to came, wasn't it, to an apology was this point, wasn't it? It said in the great and very brave soldiers of the United Kingdom. It was this kind of extraordinary message, which we understand came after the king made that intervention.

Okay, through back channels. He didn't phone the president himself directly and said, this is not good enough. But, you know, this is the king who, in September, hosted Donald Trump at Windsor Castle for that big state banquet. And he said there, you know, our people fought together and died together. That was only September. And a few months on, we're having back channels where the king has to then remind him again of this fact, privately behind the scenes.

What was your interpretation of that and the response that it seemed to elicit from Donald Trump? Well, I think it got quite a rare response from Donald Trump, which is, I don't think he was ever going to say, I'm sorry, I think that's about as close as you could get, which is true social really kind of rowing back, coming up with a different message and really focusing on the UK too, saying, you know, UK troops, they're amazing,

we love you and so forth. And I think that if you think back to how Donald Trump sees things, he ultimately wants to be liked by the royal family. When he did the state visit, it was a lot more about the royal family than it was really the government business. It was almost the royal family with a sweetener. So I think that to think that,

the royal family didn't like him or were off with him would be something that would evoke unhappy feelings in the president. I mean, he put out the statement going great and very brave soldiers of the United Kingdom, of course, the king is commander-in-chief. But it goes straight to your point, I think, Katie, of the point you made earlier, which is that of all people around the world, of all sort of heads of state, it's really the king and our royal family, the British royal family that Donald Trump really pays the most attention to in terms of opinion and who he really cares about what they think about him.

And in a way, shouldn't that be a great strength for the UK? Shouldn't that be something that we are able to use and flex a bit more? Because we were talking on an episode a couple of weeks ago with Jeremy Griffin here about, we were looking back to the state visit in September and how much we rolled everything out for him. It was supposed to be a sweetener to get a trade deal over the line. But within weeks, you know, the big tech deal with all the tech bros he'd bought to town was frozen. A trade deal was frozen. And we were asking the question a week's go, what do we actually get out of it?

But if he puts so much store on what the king and royal family think of him, why are we not getting more out of that relationship than we are? As you say, it is a big asset for the UK. And you've seen that because the UK government routinely leans on the royal family to try and soften up this administration. And you can argue, I've had the argument made to me by many in the administration on the Republican Party, that the UK gets more than most other countries.

So if you say, are we getting much because we're rolling out the red carpet, they're getting all the pomp and ceremony and said, well, look what the Europe has. You know, look what tariffs are over there. Look at the other countries. You're doing pretty well in comparison. So I think you can make the case that's got us some things, the first UK, US, you know, we were the first trade deal and so forth. But there was always, I think, the question of how much do you roll out the royal family

in a way that, and you both will know a lot more than me on this, which is in a way that the royal family is still happy to take part to be doing it. And then also, at what point are you extracting things? and at what point is he just banking the visit and then moving on to something else? I think the tech partnership, for example, falling apart or at these pausing after the state visit, that was about the specifics of various parts of trade policy,

unhappiness on the US side that the UK is moving closer into the EU's orbit. Is there so much the King could do to really make Donald Trump and his administration look the other way on specific parts of trade policy? I think there are limits to how much a charm offensive can go. But you look to how the government are going to try and get the administration back on side this coming year. And once again, they clearly see that their Trump card is the king, potentially Prince William II, and various visits they can get.

Well, that's the Trump card, isn't it? And I suppose it's the kind of play the man, not the game. Tell us a bit about the kind of character of Trump. What is he like? What's driving him, do you think? You know, he's sort of a self-styled king. And that's not just commentary. That's his own kind of language.

You know, he's been called King Trump. You know, he's been called the Tariff King. He's put out pictures of himself in a crowd on an AI-generated Time magazine front. I mean, you know, he thinks he is a king, doesn't he? Well, he likes power. And often those who he admires the most tend to have power in ways that aren't necessarily democratic. So if you look at some of the world leaders that he thinks are the strong men, often they don't have proper elections.

And I think he's in a world where he will, you know, talk about those people admiringly. You know, Erdogan talking about Putin and so forth. And then, of course, the monarchy, I think, is something which has an appeal to Donald Trump, partly because of the family links we mentioned, but also I've spoken to Republicans who say, we think the leadership in the UK is weak. Why don't you just let the kings have more power? So the Republicans think Charles should be dealing with him. A nomination who got rid of the monarchy and are celebrating 250 years of independence this year.

And this is the kind of thing coming from the Republicans. You couldn't make it up. With a straight face. With a straight face, they will say, you know, I had one Republican over lunch. I asked why Prince William just doesn't like become prime minister too. That's the point, isn't it? That they, you know, the love of a kind of autocracy, really. That's what Trump wants.

That's what it seems to be. Yeah. And we also recently had the no kings protest in D.C. and across America. It was statewide. And that was not just Democrats, but clearly opponents of Donald Trump saying that, you know,

we don't have a monarchy, no kings, he's taking all this power and seizing it in ways that are unconstitutional, not democratic. So there is a feeling, I think, both amongst Donald Trump's critics about how he rules, he often rules like a monarch.

And then also, I think, it's a smaller point, but for example, the man loves gold. When I interviewed Mike Johnson recently, the Speaker in Congress when he was over here for the 250th as an event addressing Parliament. He had just had a tour of Buckingham Palace when I saw him at the US Embassy. And I had obviously all my pre-planned questions, which were very serious. And then I just thought, I need to ask.

So I just said, you've just seen Buckingham Palace. What has more gold these days? The White House or the Palace? And there's a lot of gold in Buckingham Palace. We should have that. He said it's a stiff competition. And then he said that ever since the state visit, and obviously he speaks to the president a lot

because in his role, he has to try and get the White House's agenda free Congress as well as speaking for the Republican Party. And he said that since the visit to Windsor Castle, A, the Oval Office, have become more gold. So there's been more gold since then. And secondly, that he had been talking about the grand dining room where they had had the state banquet

and how he believed that that is influence and inspiring parts of the ballroom, which they're currently redoing in the East Wing. He's making the White House into a version, a sort of different version of Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace combined with enormous amounts of guilt and ornate decoration. That's interesting, isn't it? His critics, as well as his team and himself, it seems, are referring to him as a king. So the people who support him and the people who oppose him, what is your take on how well he's playing at home?

Because there is so much controversy over ice, over some of the violence that's been used, over the two deaths of people protesting against the immigration rules that he's instigated. Alex Preti was fatally shot by ICE agents. How well is it going down there, this King Trump kind of edict? If we look at it in the sense of might forcing his agenda, the militarisation in terms of using the military on the streets, the ice raids. I think we've had a turning point in the past week or so. And I think America has largely been aghast at this. And this hasn't been a left-right issue, which you sometimes see, which is, you know, what was he doing? Why do you have a firearm instead? Polling showing that a majority of Americans see this as murder. And also you're seeing Republicans start to speak up with unease about how Donald Trump has been pushing his immigration agenda. And you're even seeing Trump, I think, acknowledge that things have gone wrong here and trying to walk back a bit. So in terms of, you know, unfettered power and how it looks, I think that we are potentially.

heading to a situation where there are going to be more checks because I think there is a sense that things have gone wrong and people are very unhappy about it. With all the controversies at home, how will a royal visit in the spring play out? That's after this. Oh, all of those controversies and issues at home, things that are going wrong, what's happening in Minneapolis, ice, all of that. Donald Trump won't want any of that going on in the background when we have two quite significant royal visits. The king expected to go on a state visit with the Queen in the spring

and then Prince William is expected to go at some point, possibly in July for Independence Day. We hear that Donald Trump is probably going to invite him for that. It'll be important for him to have a relatively stable status quo at home going on with no controversies around those royal visits. When we talk about what we are trying to bank from those visits, in terms of royal diplomacy going over to America, what is the role of our soft power there and what will Donald Trump be trying to bank

from those visits himself? Yeah, so I think when it comes to the UK's role on all this, obviously it's a slightly funny one with the 250th, which is what is the UK's role? And I think if you look at the royal family in the past, there is a sense of being present and showing how the two sides have come to work together since the departure.

And that will be what the king is trying to show and do. Is there going to be a world where it's going to be really calm if he's here as we expect in April. I think because it's Donald Trump it's probably unlikely. There probably will be some kind of controversy. The palace hope would just be

as not something that he has dragged into. And I think in terms of what Donald Trump will want from it, he obviously wants his face time with the royal family. He wants to be seeing these people. And I think the US also has lots of asks when it comes to trade. It has things that wants to do. It wants to have more of its products in the UK.

It wants to look at, agri-food. It wants to raise some questions on freedom of speech. Also, freedom of speech and how that specifically relates to the tech billionaires and the big American tech companies, many of whom fund Donald Trump and have donated heavily and how that all

comes together. So there are asks the US will have, but I think the UK will more be looking at saying, well, Donald Trump is getting some of the things he wants in terms of this visit. So can it be used as an opportunity to try and smooth some of the current issues we have when it comes

to the tech partnership, improving the trade deal further, potential tariffs easing. But then also things like, for example, the Chegos deal, is that something they will want to be avoiding a situation where Donald Trump does another truth social saying that deal is a bad idea unless the UK is walking back from it? And the question is, do you bring those things up? Or is it easier to try and just not talk about Chegos as Kierzama has currently done, you know, almost not wanting to poke the bear on the issues that he's worried about the president's opinion on?

It's interesting, isn't it? I suppose how far do you think a visit from King Charles to President King Trump on his own turf? President King Trump, I love that. We'll reinforce that image of him as King Trump. I mean, it's sprinkling a bit of royal gold dust over his presidency, isn't it? To a degree. And I mean, if you think about what runs on the cable channels on TV networks in America, what's one of the things I've found, well, I've found many things interesting since I moved over.

But obviously in the UK, you see everything from the UK perspective and what's really, really big news in the UK. You sometimes would just presume it would be what's leading in America too when it comes to things Trump is doing. So on Ukraine, for example, sometimes it's the top story, but often Donald Trump saying something on Ukraine plays very big in Europe and UK in the news coverage. It doesn't make much of a mark. It's like the fourth item and there's, you know, more domestic focuses here.

But certainly when Donald Trump is with the royal family and you see that pomp and ceremony, it carries everywhere because the Americans too have a deep interest in. the royal family. And that is one way where, you know, Donald Trump going to the UK and talking about a UK-U.S. Trade deal is not going to get much cut through. Donald Trump appearing next to the Princess of Wales and those photos being pretty dazzling and him looking at like the cat who's got the cream does carry. So he definitely likes to lead into the background as he sees it when it comes to, you know, historic buildings, traditions and so forth. And that does rub off on him just as we were saying, we can tell it does from the fact he's obviously being inspired by it when it comes to

the decor. He has had an unprecedented, as he loved reminding everyone an unprecedented two state visits to the UK. We are sending the King and probably Prince William at some point this year. Do you think that point you made about, you know, the threat of maybe the state visit was in question very briefly when he was mouthing off about Greenland and then did a U-turn and wasn't in question again when he made those comments about. about NATO and then he backtracked after the King intervened.

When we had state visits and we had the special relationship with the Obama's and the Bushes, senior and junior, those visits and that relationship never seemed to be under threat or in question at any point during those presidencies. And do you think we have slightly less power now that Trump is there? Mark Carney and during Davos last week and you may have heard him say it, he made the point. And of course, Mark Carney has been an extraordinary situation since he became Prime Minister of Canada. But last week, we heard Mark Carney this is, say in Davos, if we're not at the table when it comes to Donald Trump, we're on the menu.

And does that sort of show that we are a slightly weaker partner in the relationship? Because the government at the end of the day is still slightly nervous about Donald Trump being all-powerful and so easily changing his mind and quite volatile. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, we talk about the special relationship, but I think it's always been the case that we are the weaker partner in the special relationship, or at least if we think about the 250th. And that is something which I think is more acutely the case when it's Donald Trump because he exposes it more in the things he's saying.

But it's often been the case that, you know, the UK goes along with what the US is doing, but it is not always the one leading. It's much more like the US is leading. And because of the events of recent weeks or even, but if we're being honest, Donald Trump's whole approach since his return to the White House in terms of, You look at the national security strategy, for example, in terms of the countries, the Western hemisphere is the focus. Europe is much lower down. They want, you know, the Europe and the UK to look after itself more on defence. It's more obvious what's going on. And the US is definitely

seen as less reliable in terms of will they always be there? Will they come back to the table after an angry truth social? The king is one way to get him back, but can you rely on it so much? So I think that Mark Carney's comments obviously expose it. The bigger question is, does Mark Carney, European leaders or the UK have the appetite to actually make some of the decisions you might have to be a medium-sized country which can stand on its own or stand with others on defence and so forth. And until those decisions are being made, you do have a situation where the UK government and others are just trying to scratch their heads together to work at how best to deal with this administration and to keep Trump on side. And while there is the case, their number one move is going

to be trying to co-op the royal family to do to as much as they can. I wonder, not Not that it's my podcast. I'd love people to listen to my podcast. But I don't know if it's something either you have an opinion on, which is, do you think Donald Trump is Donald Trump is Donald Trump? Do you think Donald Trump is Donald Trump is the British government putting the royal family in a difficult position? Because the palace will always try and put it at arm's lengths and say, oh, they're acting on the advice of the government when it comes to these trips. So like you say, you know, how far are we prepared to go as a kind of middling power in the global debate? How much do we kind of roll out the king? Because it was that, you know, the Trump card that we always talk about when he came with a letter. Stama delivered that letter to Trump and he was so thrilled about it. We made such a fuss over it being an unprecedented second state visit for a US president. My answer would be that we have to, you know, that use the raw family and that kind of soft diplomatic power.

to our advantage as a kind of a rare country in which we have that as a bargaining chip. I think my answer to that would be, yes, probably the King and William and other members of the family don't always feel like they want to hang out with Donald Trump all the time, given some of the things that he says and some of the things he does. But A, they know it's their job and it's part of the role to do. B, I think, you know, Prince William is particularly alive to the fact that Donald Trump thinks he's a top man constantly calls him handsome and wants to hang out with him in Paris, left, right and centre and is very keen to see him. And I think William is, you know,

puts on his game face and is willing to entertain the idea of nurturing that relationship because it's useful to the UK and it probably is useful to the Royal Family down the line. But I think also in terms of controversial heads of state and Donald Trump is certainly a controversial head of state. He is by no means the most controversial head of state the Royal Family have had to entertain non-official business. Think of the Queen having Chowcesterscu here. Think of the Queen hosting Putin here. We had, you know, the Chinese here on a state visit, not so long ago, something that actually the king has always taken a very firm line on and not gone to the state banquet for. So the royal family know that sometimes they just hold their

nose and on they go with their business because it is such an important part of the role of being part of the monarchy. And the 250th will be interesting as well, won't it? Because if, you know, as expected, if the king goes over for that to mark that, now that's an interesting debate because that will be Trump exerting his power, strangely over the UK in a way, and reminding Britain that actually the US, its own entity, fought to become so and is independent from Britain with the king there. So while he admires and respects and seemingly has a great fondness for the royal family, it will also be an opportunity for Trump to kind of put Britain back in its place. This is why we got rid of you. A state visit,

and any commemorations around independence, which we will see members of the Royal Family engaged with this year, I think what's going to be interesting is how Donald Trump handles that because he's not going to be rude. You know, the esteem in which he holds the Royal Family is so high that he's not going to be like, we got rid of you and that's so great. It'll be interesting to see how on earthy diplomatically presents that. I suppose in a question back to Katie,

is the monarchy therefore uniquely placed to, you know, appease Trump to build that bridge with Trump between the UK across the Atlantic to the USA? Or are we uniquely vulnerable at being absorbed into his self-image of King Trump? Well, it can be both, but I think it's probably the former, which is the UK just does have something that other countries don't have when it comes to getting to the White House, to the man who is often famously in D.C., he is influenced by whoever is the last person he spoke to. So it's almost like, can you get him in the phone?

Can you be the last person in the room? it really is compared to almost being a medieval king's court in how it works and that sense of, you know, who's up, who's down. Proximity is power when it comes to Donald Trump. So therefore having a situation where there is, you know, a monarch in the UK that he wants to like him and he wants to be held in their good graces does actually put the UK in, you know, a more impactful and influential position than lots of other countries. And it's just, I think, the question of how does the UK use it to their advantage is never going to be perfect because this is still a man who often changes his mind. But it is a tool which other countries can only look on and wish they had. Well, it definitely means that I think the state visit and any visit that we expect from Prince William later in the summer are going to be completely fascinating, very colourful and never dull when you have the royal family with Donald Trump. Well, our thanks to Katie Balls for joining us this week.

And if you'd like to hear more of Katie's analysis, please do check out the new podcast from The Times, The State of It USA, available wherever you get your podcast. And as for the state visit, it's certainly looking like one to watch, so make sure you subscribe to us wherever you are, because we'll be out in the US come the spring covering that historic trip. And if you'd like to watch as well as listen to the podcast, you can. Just search Times Royals on YouTube for full episodes of the podcast, plus Royal News and analysis from across the Times.

But that's it for us this week. Thanks for joining us on the Royals, and we'll see you next time.