The Royals with Roya and Kate - Kate’s Cancer recovery & the end of the Royal train

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

The Princess of Wales has given her most personal insight yet into the emotional toll of recovery, offering a powerful glimpse into life after cancer treatment. This week, Roya and Kate reflect on her words, and what they signal about a changing tone inside the Palace. Meanwhile, the Sovereign Grant is up, the royal train is out, and William and Kate become even more influential with royal warrants in hand.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to The Royals, where we unpack the people, politics and pageantry of the monarchy. I'm Roya Nikah. And I'm Kate Mancy. Today we're delving into royal finances, royal power moves and a royal recovery that's been quietly improving away from the cameras. Just how much is the monarchy worth in 2025? Well, Kate's been digging her way into the sovereign grant. And William and Kate's official duties expand. But how?

In a deeply personal visit to hospital this week, the Princess of Wales spoke candidly about her cancer recovery, highlighting the emotional challenges that come after treatment. Her reflections, alongside Queen Camilla's support for Maggi centres in Scotland this week week raise important questions about patient care, emotional wellbeing and the role of the royal family in public health advocacy. I think it's also one of the most personal things we've ever heard from Kate.

So this was another part of the staggered return from the Princess of Wales who told us at the beginning of the year that she was in remission from cancer and during this trip to hospital she said you sort of put a brave face on stoicism through treatment, treatment's done and then it's like I can crack on get back to normal but actually the phase afterwards is really difficult she said you're not necessarily under the clinical team any longer but you're not able to function normally at home as you perhaps once used to. And then she went on to say, and actually someone to help talk you through that, show you and guide you through that sort of phase after treatment, I think is really valuable.

And I think this was the first time we've heard her speak so personally. We've had these video messages throughout the years since she was diagnosed. At the beginning of last year, we found out about it in March 2024. Then she had months of chemotherapy. Then we had that brilliant return where she went to the Royal Marsden in London, which was where she had that chemotherapy. We found that she'd been sneaked through the back door for her treatment.

Quite a lonely affair. And then she finally came through the front door when she became patron. And a deeper insight, I think now, than we've ever seen into that emotional and the mental effects that the mental health aspects of it. I found what she said completely fascinating because it felt like a very articulate, very pointed, very personal explanation of her own journey. And she spoke about that, prescientially of putting on the brave face. And, you know, the public have shown such goodwill and support towards William and Kate during her illness and the King's illness.

There was such a sigh of relief when she released that video last year saying, you know, I've now finished my treatment. There was such relief when the statement came out saying that she was in remission. Every time we see her now and then during this phase return, whether that's at Trooping the Colour or, you know, Garter, everyone is delighted. But we had her putting out very last minute of Royal Ascot recently, and that caused a huge sort of reaction.

She said she was disappointed not to go. Yeah. And I think this was a really, really important way of her saying, I'm still on that journey. I don't feel great all the time. There are some days where I might commit to something that I'm not able to do. And that is everyone's individual journey. And it was very personal for someone who is probably has more pressure on them in a public eye than anyone could understand. Yeah, and it speaks to a lot of cancer patients who have been through that,

who after treatment, then they feel like they're on their own and they have to sort of make a new normal. But also this idea of her putting on the brave face for the public in a way that, you know, most people don't have to. She went into more detail, didn't she? So we knew about the chemotherapy, but then she also said that she'd been having acupuncture. She said she hadn't tried reflexology yet, but she said that it was great that this Colchester Hospital offered all these different holistic methods and treatments. So we learned a little bit more about that. And actually what we do know now is far more about the treatment that the Princess of Wales

received than the King. Yes. I know they've always commented from the King's going to be as open as he can. And actually was initially because as soon as he was diagnosed, pretty much it was very short shortly before Buckingham Palace announced that. Now we had that period, didn't we, at the beginning of last year where we didn't know what had happened after the surgery that the Princess of Wales had had and the rumour mill cranked up around the world.

And it was only when she came out in March and said, look, cancer had been found and she'd started chemotherapy. And I think now actually she's now gone one further and is slowly, it's a staggered return to public life, but it's always a staggered, you know, information sharing about what she went through. It's interesting. She, you know, the guidance always was that she would feel comfortable talking about it when she felt comfortable. And we've seen that as every sort of engagement when there's been an opportunity to,

and obviously going to Colchester and speaking to fellow cancer patients is an amazing opportunity. The other phrase that really leapt out for me during yesterday's engagement was when she talked about a mind, body, and spirit approach to it. Because when we were coming back

from the big Australia and Samoa trip with the King and Queen last year, we were briefed by his closest aides that the King was taking a mind, body and soul approach to his illness, a mind, body and spirit approach. And in the only one he shares with his daughter, you know, they have been, they have become even closer, both going through, you know, that this cancer battle. And I found that really interesting because I thought, you know, those must be some extraordinary chats that the two of them sitting down have had over

the last year and a half. Both of them in hospital at the same time, we know literally kind of along the corridor. And you went to visit her, didn't he, before he had his treatment? Toddling up the corridors. It is quite, when you step back and think about it, it's quite a unique, extraordinary thing for the King and the Prince of Wales to have gone through together and have been able to, I suppose, comfort each other in a way that almost nobody else can.

Yeah, because they get it. They get what each other's been through. She went to see him, didn't she, for tea, before she released that video last March as well. So, to be a fly on the wall then. But they are, they share that very kind of same goal and everything we're hearing from the Princess of Wales, her Mother Earth video series that she started doing every season. There's been a shift, hasn't there? There's been an absolute shift about what's important and getting back to nature. And even on engagements, because actually, the reporter who was doing the Rota yesterday said to us that she was watching Kate do her thing and she said that so often engagements

as we know are like literally done to the minute and the private sector will come and move along with the principle to the next person and on this the writer reporter said Kate was just taking as much time as she needed with everyone she wanted to make sure she spoke to everyone she didn't mind about the rain you know bedding down the roses and the rain her hair being ruined she was just happy to be there and happy to be able to kind of empathize and speak candidly with other cancer patients. And people might find this interesting, the reporting I suppose, that goes into it, because you mentioned the Rotary Reporter. So this is this idea that we can't have all the royal

editors from the different outlets there in the room. And that wouldn't be, you know, advisable and actually wouldn't be a kind of an open way in which the princess could have those kind of deep and meaningful chats, which it did seem to be yesterday. So that's where one of us goes and feeds back to the others, which is we pull it. We pull it. Yeah, we might not realize that. It's amazing, there's little insights you can get. You do get greater insight because you can plant somebody there in a small group. And actually you do get to hear a lot about what they're saying and what they're thinking,

which was what came across yesterday with the Princess of Wales, what has actually been going on mentally after she's come out and said, physically she's so relieved that the treatment's over, that she's in remission from cancer. And yet, months on, she's still kind of notes to the world, you know, this is a long journey.

She's the word journey. Yeah, it's ongoing. So yeah, it was very personal. And I think, however considered the written statements are, and however considered the video messages are, and the films beautifully edited that they've released, there is something about the naturalness of her sitting down with other cancer patients and just talking about their different experiences that feels, you just kind of think you're actually kind of, you're really hearing directly from her about what she's going through.

It was the same at the Marsden, wasn't it? When she did that at the Marsden, she said, you know, talking about the port that you have for chemotherapy and pointed to her own chest sort of saying that she'd had one, you know, a port fitted so that they can administer the chemotherapy easier each time she goes. And just her pointing to her chest and saying that she'd had this port there was a really interesting insight. And we haven't been told publicly or even brief behind the scenes about what type of treatment the king's having or what type of cancer he's having. Maybe that's

something he'll share further down the line, who knows. But she's gone further now than the King. So with the Crown Estate reporting a record £1.15 billion profit, the royal finances are under fresh scrutiny. And we were at a very hot hot long day of sovereign grant and royal accounts briefings weren't we on Monday Kate? Kate I love it. I do. I love the money and the figures.

Kate I love it. I love the money and the figures. I think it's why this job matters. Show me the money. We keep asking them, really show us the money. But where's it gone? But really. By spending it on, how much you paid. So 86.3 mil.

Bargain? Not bargain? Well, it goes toward, it's the same as the last four years. How does it work? What is the sovereign grant? The sovereign grant is a means by which the public purse funds the official working of the royal household. So that's all the official duties they do when they go places on representing

brand Britain, planes, trains, automobiles, helicopters, a fair few of those. And in 2012, the civil list, which was the old way of funding the royal family, was replaced by the Sovereign Grant and it was calculated as a percentage of the profits from the Crown Estate. Now the Crown Estate is this huge area of land which very, very many years ago had an association with the royal family, doesn't really anymore. Their profits go into, go to the treasury, they go to the exchequer and from that he gets a proportion to the royal household to fund their work. Now they've had a massive uplift because they've had to cover the cost of the £369 million, 10-year long renovation project on Buckingham Palace,

which Buckingham Palace like to call resurfacing, which is a very difficult word for anybody else to get their heads around. Major spruce. Major, major spruce. Major spruce up. Which means that at the moment all the state visits are heading towards Windsor Castle. And over the next two years after this year, that's going to go up even further. So they're going to get an extra 91 million pounds over the next two years. Coupled with stuff that's already in the bank, they're going to spend another 100 million pounds to finish the skirting boards,

finish the project of Buckingham Palace. Finish those, like, nine miles of cables, you know, electrical cables and all that sort of stuff they've had to replace. But I don't think... Most of the reporters don't like that day. The palace certainly don't like the day. Because we get to ask lots of questions.

We get to ask lots of awkward questions. We get to take out our magnifying glasses and go, are you serious? So the nugget that they throw down to distract everybody this year. Love that that's how you see it. Was the Royal Train. So the Royal Train. Tell us what the Royal Train is. The Royal Train is, I mean, it's a big part of history. And anachronism, I would say. But yeah, it is the thing that comes up every year at the Sovereign Grant briefing where every year we've always asked, what about the Royal Train? Queen Victoria was the first monarch wasn't used to use the Royal Train.

It has nine carriages. It's currently claret carriages. The Queen absolutely loved traveling on it. And the reason why she used to enjoy it was because it was a sort of slow and steady, secure way of if she had a couple of days of engagements, going up somewhere, overnighting, staying on the train. They've got en suites with actual bath tubs.

They do. She's not roughing it. And not having to kind of chop her up somewhere or get up very early the next day, which as she got older was much more convenient. The problem with the Royal Chain for the last few years has been one of optics and many, many pound signs because the rolling stock has been increasingly old and wearing. It's needed an enormous amount of upkeep. It's needed an enormous amount of maintenance. The last two carriages were built in the mid 1980s.

But ever since you and I have been doing this brief, when we get the breakdown of journeys on planes, trains or automobiles that cost over £20,000 that comes as sort of addendum with the accounts, the Royal Train is hardly ever used and literally practically the most expensive thing per mile you could possibly use. It is extortionate. And that was seen in these documents. So in the last year it was used twice. Yeah, twice. Once it cost £33,000 for a two-day visit by the king. Another two-day visit cost £44,000. And to put that into perspective, the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh on their nine-day trip to Nepal, which you went on, cost £26,000. So a nine-day trip to Nepal

for two senior members of the royal family, which came under much cheaper than two days on the royal train. So we were told by the new keeper of the Provisperse, James Chalmers, he's new, he was very nervous in the run up to doing this. He did a very good job, I thought. He did. But he told us that the king was going to bid a fond farewell to the royal train, that the king had been sort of presented with, you know, the figures, what the future looked like, and had been really quite clear in deciding

that it was no longer value for money and in order to modernize the monarchy and show fiscal discipline, I loved these phrases that came out, it felt a bit like Rachel Reeves, it felt a bit budget day, that very sadly he was going to bid a fond farewell and it was made absolutely clear that while it was the king's decision, Prince William very much supported this, which was no surprise to any of us because William is no fan of that train. He has used it once in the last few years for a trip with Kate up to Scotland, and it was incredibly hard for his aides to persuade him to even take that trip, because his view of the train has always been,

it is literally a relic of the past. It's not my vibe. He takes a lot of helicopters. People might criticize him for that. He does take an awful lot of helicopters. But sort of price per mile and optics of that royal train have always been something that William is quite allergic to. And so it was quite interesting to... Although they were sort of maintaining that it was very much the King's decision and they made the Prince of Wales aware. So they were sort of saying it's his, you know, it hasn't been forced upon him by his son, although of course, yeah, he supports it. His son would fully support it.

But apart from the fact that it costs so much every time they take it out of the sidings, there's also this kind of estimated £1 million a year, what it costs just to maintain the thing and store the thing. To maintain it and not be used. And the drivers and all that sort of stuff. So we asked the new keeper of the preview purse to put a figure on how much that maintenance every year costs. And he wouldn't do it. But they did say that he's going to do like a little farewell tour of the UK,

which I think would be quite fun, depending on how well they do it. And then it will be... Farewell tour, the Royal Train. How can it be that... Presumably it's not that expensive when they don't have anybody on it. Because it's how much it costs, it's fuel, it's the storage, it's the like, where it stays, it's the security you have to have around it. Maybe they can put it on the back of a lorry.

From March 2027 it'll be finally decommissioned. I, they, you know. And they'll put it in a museum or something. The plan is to have it on public display, whether it's all of it or some carriages here, some carriages there. I think having it having been made such a story obviously about its cost, we've always known that. I think it'll be very hard to justify continuing to use it a lot next year and doing a royal tour because that will be extortionate. So that was the story that distracted... What was the real story?

It was fun. It was a bit of fun and And that was a good story. But what did you think was the standout money money being counted story? I think, well, I think it's the fact that it's 91 million uplift over the next two years, which we sort of knew was coming. But I don't think people really realize that's how much. There were little nuggets that were really interesting. So the East Terrace at Windsor Castle has had a major res...

It's had a massive glow up hasn't it? ...605,000 pounds on a garden redesign. I hope the Macrons appreciate that next year when they come on the state visit. Are they going to be showing that do you think? And here's a bit of the re-landscaping we've done at a cost of £11 billion. And then of course we had to hot foot it over to Kensington Palace for the Duchy of Cornwall accounts. When Charles was Prince of Wales, they always used to start that briefing by saying we don't need to be telling you any of this, but we do because we're such good

eggs. Because we're so transparent. And they would also say what figure? The King then, Prince of Wales, had paid on tax. Now the last two years, this year and last year, William has chosen not to disclose that figure, which is quite interesting. His pay's gone down a little bit to around 23 million. It was slightly higher last year, it's slightly lower this year. What was it last year? Was it 23.6? It's now 22.9. So he's taking a little bit of a hit to the profits of the Duchy of Cornwall, which of course he's entitled to profits from the surplus, isn't he? But again, there was no tax disclosure, but there were a couple of, what you would say, distraction tactics, weren't there?

There were some news nuggets put out. Yeah, well, we should probably just say on the tax that he, they did say he's paying the highest rate. We just don't know on what. No, we just don't know on what. And actually, if you look, so I went and looked at the memorandum of understanding on the taxation of the king. Oh, you're a thorough reporter. No, because I love this stuff and geeking out on it.

And only I could geek out on this kind of stuff. 2023, a new memorandum of understanding on taxation was issued by the Treasury and tried not to fall asleep. But that's a page to indicate. It is, but it says that before William pays tax, he can take off all his expenses for his official business. Yes. That's anything to do with his official business.

Tax deduction. So presumably that can be not just the uniforms he wears when he's doing Trooping the Colour, but that can also be... I don't think he pays... Presumably any other outfits. But that means that he could be deducting quite a lot of expenses before he gets down to a figure from which he can be taxed.

But because we don't know. So it's pretty, unless you disclose that figure, it's almost impossible to even guesstimate how much tax he pays, regardless of being told he pays the highest rate. The distraction- But what did Will Back say? So he's the new keeper of the Cornwall. Yes, he's got a wonderfully old title, which I wish I could remember now.

Well, he said he was chief executive, but then actually his official title is secretary and keeper of the Duchy of Cornwall. So the kind of news nuggers at the top were, what was interesting was, you know, he acknowledged that, we do acknowledge there's been a lot of media scrutiny on the Duchy in the last year. Of course, the Sunday Times with dispatch on the duchy in the last year. Of course, the Sunday Times with dispatchers as well did this huge investigation last year into the duchy and a lot of things came out that people didn't really fully know or were aware of.

Things like, they're a commercial landlord, but I think some people were surprised to discover that the duchy was charging hospitals and car parks and the armed forces and the Navy and the army anyway millions of pounds worth of public body money so taxpayers money yeah it's actually going to the landlord that is either the king at the Duchy of Lancaster or William at the Duchy of Cornwall. So the announcement that William Bax made was that mindful of the media scrutiny and wanting to stop and reflect and be more socially conscious, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera, in this new direction that William wants to take

the Duchy in, William will now going forwards, waive rental charges to some local grassroots organizations that fall on Dutchie land. The example is given of the Scouts. They'll look at things like primary schools and also give up to 50% rental discounts to local charities who are actively operating on Dutchie land. But nothing about public body. So the public body contracts will stay the same now. There doesn't seem to be any NHS on Williamsland, but certainly there's lots of military bases

and things like that. But that's not going to change. No. So it's just the kind of small groups that will get a bit of a, either have their rent waived entirely or have a cut. But that's interesting because obviously it's rattled them, that story that came out in November.

Now I phoned the Duchy of Lancaster after that and said, first of all- Did you geek out a bit more? I phoned the Duchy of Lancaster after that and said, first of all- Did you geek out a bit more? I said, first of all- Oh, where's Kate? And their hearts sank. Oh, it's her again. It's the set you watch by this phone call every year.

Where are your accounts? They're coming out, they're not ready yet. Well, they're not publicly available yet. But also they said, I said, you can do the same as the Duchy of Cornwall. And they said, I said, you can do the same as a duchy of Cornwall. And they said, well, actually we do, we have offered lower rates and cut price rates to some of those groups for a long time anyway,

but we are now actively reviewing our other contracts. So kind of watch this space. I love the competition between the two duchies as well. I should be watching that space with my magnifying glass and my calculator at the ready. Do you do spreadsheets? I bet you love a spreadsheet. I do quite like a spreadsheet. I love a spreadsheet. It sinks my soul.

So, more to come on that, I think, because we're all going to want to know. Also, it was interesting about this Buckingham Palace project, so far seems on time and on budget, but... Current plans, they said. Yes, but what... Currently on budget and on time. Currently means things can change. It's a bit of throat clearing and looking back down at the paperwork

where those questions were going on. Come on, I don't know any building project that hasn't gone over budget and over time. Don't you think that there's potentially, there might have been room for that original figure that was given out publicly of £369 million to have been slightly over what was actually quoted so that it would have given them a little bit of wriggle room? If they've got £100 million left to spend in just two years. Gosh, that snagging better be thorough.

Let's watch this space. Now, from public finances to royal influencers, William and Kate have just been granted the right to grant royal warrants by the King. Now, this seems to be... There's something else you've been on. Oh, I've been on. There's been a long delay over this. And people have been saying, well, why haven't they been

granted this right earlier? But Buckingham Palace has announced that the King has given them the right and that means that soon anybody who is a supplier, who supplies Kate and William with their stuff, you know, anything from the fencing at Anne Mahal to, you know, Kate's face cream could reasonably apply. Williams recyclable ties. There's going to be lots of sustainable brands on that list. So much sustainability by Royal Appointment. So how does it work? So how do you go about getting a royal warrant for your...

Tell me Kate. Well... If I want to apply. If you're already supplying one of the other royal households, so perhaps you're supplying something to the Queen and Queen, and you already have a royal warrant, you can apply now until the end of July. Okay. If you perhaps send stuff to Kate Wynne as well.

Yes. Not just random stuff, like stuff they want. I don't, just to be clear. I don't supply them with anything currently. And then next year a window will open for new royal warrant holders, and that'll be the really fun thing, I think, because we'll see if we get to basically go into their shopping baskets and see what they really use.

And there'll be dull stuff like, you know, the beehives that they use. And we want to know about the... You know, we had the Queen's Face Cream, the late Queen's Face Cream, didn't we, when she was alive, and we got to see what sort of knickknacks she liked to buy, where she bought her underwear and things like that. RIPI and Pella. Yes, until they...

Random. They lost the warrant, didn't they, after there was a big book they did, and they might have been a bit a little indiscreet. Oh, dear. So, you know, word to the wise of anybody who's sending any pants to Kensington Palace. Mind those NDAs. But they'll be good. I mean, it'll be interesting, won't it?

I mean, to see what's on there. Well, and again, I think it goes back to the power of the reason British companies are so keen to have that by appointment to His Majesty, by appointment to Her Majesty, by appointment to the Princess of Wales or any other member of the royal family on their produce or what they manufacture is because it does bring an enormous cache with it, doesn't it? And royal warrant holders are quite a club. I mean, you know, if you can produce a little pot of jam or you can produce a shaving cream or horse feed. Spread, that's spread. It's not jam. It gives it, you know, it's like what we see with Kate when she wears an outfit,

it's the Kate effect, it gives you that stamp of quality, I think, and that's what so many British brands are very keen to have over all the other British brands that do something similar. They use that on all their letterheads, they can use it on everything they send out. It's a very powerful brand, isn't it? Absolutely. And it's not just Kate's been seen wearing something once, it shows you that... and use it on everything they send out. It's a very powerful brand, isn't it? Absolutely. And it's not just Kate's been seen wearing something once.

It shows you that they're... I think podcasts can apply. Oh, I don't know. Should we go through the paperwork? Supply them. There were lots of like, like you say, Williams recyclable trainers and ties and things like that, weren't it?

We'll see what comes up on that shopping list. Watch this space. Now, just as we were preparing the podcast, Prince William paid tribute to the Liverpool footballer and Premier League winner, Diogo Jota, after he and his brother were killed in a crash in Zamora in Spain. William, in a message signed W,

denoting it was a personal tribute, wrote, "'As part of the footballing family, "'I'm deeply saddened to hear of the passing of Diogo Jota and his brother. Our thoughts are with his family, friends and all who knew him at LFC at Wolves. Of course William is patron of the FA and a really keen football fan so that's why he's made that statement and it's really really sad news. It is I think and it speaks to William's love of the game and his affection for all the players as well. I mean it's very personal that he signed it personally and he really feels it when something he did, you know,

he mentions the footballing community and the footballing family of which he feels very strongly. Well it's been a very busy rule week hasn't it? You've been geeking out on spreadsheets and numbers. We've had some very emotional words and thoughts from the Princesses of Wales. And next week we'll be talking about them a lot next week, won't we? Because... Dun dun dun dun dun dun! Who's coming?

President Macron. Emmanuel and Brigitte. The love-in. Yeah, let's hope it's a love-in and not, you know... I don't know what you're talking about Kate. Wow. I mean a love-in between Charles, Camilla, Emmanuel and Brigitte. They seem to get on very well.

From when we went on the state visit to France a couple of years ago. They do. It's been a long time since Sarkozy came and was a guest of Elizabeth II in 2008, also at Windsor Castle. And now it's time for Macron. This of course is the first of the state visits to be held there for a while because we've just been talking about the Buckingham Palace Spruce. So you and I will be hot-footing it with our trick-a-lors over to Windsor. We will and Trump will probably be watching on the television because this is coming up for him very soon too. Do you think he might think about what the template looks like

and what his best moment is? He's going to count the number of horses and soldiers and then he's going to double it. Macron had this, I won that. It's going to be jolly. I'm looking forward to that. It's going to be this fun. It'll be stylish.

I bet the Queen wears Chanel. Maybe Dior, maybe Chanel. She likes both. Macron getting back in touch with his old chum William. Remember we were in Monaco? Yes, it's all going to come together. Let's hope Macron remembers us. And keeps his speech a bit shorter than he did in Monaco. Perhaps we could send him some thoughts on his spreadsheet.

See you in Windsor. See you there. Bye for now.