The Royals with Roya and Kate - Most memorable royal moments of 2024

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

A special edition as Roya and Kate are joined by renowned royal photographer Arthur Edwards, who looks back at the royal moments of the year and shares stories from his five decades of photographing the royal family, including his most memorable royal tour. And his choice of the favourite royal family member to capture on camera might just surprise you! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Hello and welcome to the Royals with Roya and Kate. I'm Roya Neekar, Royal Editor for the Sunday Times. And I'm Kate Mancy, Royal Editor for the Times. And for this special edition, we are looking back at not just the last year, but the last five decades of Royal reporting. Because we're talking about drama, triumphs,

and everything in between with our very special guest today, the award-winning Arthur Edwards, Royal Photographer for the Sun since 1974, Britain's top selling newspaper. I feel like Arthur, you need a royal fanfare to introduce you. Absolutely. Yeah, that's the only thing I haven't got. It's fair to say, Arthur, you've been covering the royal family for longer than the two of us combined.

How do you do it? Why do you do it? And we can't wait to ask you everything about it. Why do you still do it? Well, I still do it. At the age of? 84. I'm only 84. People say, when you're going to retire. I say, well, I'm only 84. And I still like what I do. And I would say, why retire when you like the people you work with and you like the job you do. We like to include ourselves in that.

It's never been a kind of job. It's been a way of life for me. And of course, you know, I was asked to do that job and I didn't really, when I was in, I mean, I've been going to the polo matches and getting some pictures and getting them published and the editor at the time decided that someone ought to be on to Prince Charles' case to find out who was gonna get married. He said that 30 was a good time to get married.

And- What age was he at that point? 28, just coming out of the Navy. And the first job I was given was go down to Harwich, where his ship was the HMS Bronnington. And I was there three days, most miserable time of my life. Never laid eyes on him. Thought, oh, this is going to, I can't, I'm going to get my head around this job. But eventually I covered the polo matches and I got one girlfriend,

another girlfriend. And eventually in 1980, at a polo match down in Sussex on a Saturday afternoon, very small little polo ground, I was told he's here with Lady Diana Spencer. And I walked around this... And did you say who or did you know who she was? No, I said, what does she look like? And he said, I didn't see him arrive, but I'm told he's with her. So I walked around this small little polat film, saw this girl sitting there looking pretty girl and she was wearing a necklace with a D on it.

And I thought, excuse me, are you Lady Diana Spencer? She said, yes. I said, can I take your photograph, please? And she said, seriously, and she said yes. And she posed up for me. And I rang the office and I said, can you tell me about Lady Diana Spencer? They came back and they said, she's the youngest daughter of Lord Spencer, and I said, who's he? And he said he was an equerry to the Queen. I said, well, how young is she? He said, well, she's just had her 19th birthday.

And so I remember writing on the caption, I don't think this is a girl. I don't think he's running around with teenagers. Don, don't file a picture. And then a month later, maybe five or six weeks later, I'm driving up to Braymar to do the games and I see Prince of Wales fishing. Who's with him? Lady Diana Spencer. And when she sees me, she bolts through the trees

to the car and I've got a picture of running through the trees. And I've got a picture of her running through the trees. And then I got to the polo. When I got to the Highland Games, I was told she's following around like a lamb. And I phoned Harry Arnold, the royal reporter, who was having a large swig of champagne at a cricket match in Kent. Times have changed. I was about to say those were the days.

He said, thanks, Arthur. And we splashed on it on the Monday. I remember the headline, He's in Love Again, and with my picture I did at the Polo, which used that. Under there was a caption, Lady Diana Spets, all the qualities to be queen, and we went for it big time. Your picture's front page of the paper and all those all those pages inside as well. Every other girlfriend he paraded this one he hid. We never got one picture of them together till the engagement day. And I remember, you know, going to Lamborne six o'clock in the

morning when he was out riding his horse. Yeah, it's being trained by Nick Gaisley. Nick Gaisley and we were going out on his horse and Diana was there smuggled her in. I can tell you how they smuggled her in because I know this. Well, I'll tell you how they smuggled her in because I know this. He comes out on the horse and I'll take a picture. I'm the only one there. He goes off on the gallops and that's not much of a picture. Where's Diana? And all of a sudden all the mob turned up and then a policeman comes down and rushes to the phone box. That's sort of strange. Anyway, I ring in, you know phones and I just rang in. He said, have you got a picture of this horse and why?

He said, it's just a press just gone out, their horses collapsed and died on the gallops. Yeah, it did. Alaba. Alaba, yeah. So then he smuggled Diana out in the back of the Range Rover. I knew this was on. So it was a question of where she worked. I went every nursery in West London, found her.

Is Lady Diana Spencer work here? Yes. Asked if she put a picture for me. She came out carrying the two kids. Her son came out. Young England. That's that famous picture of her with the skirt. It's almost a kind of transparent skirt. It might have been where I went to kindergarten after.

As a child, not as a teacher. Oh, I thought you were teaching them. No, I was one of the kids there. Anyway, I as a teacher. Oh, I thought you were teaching them. No, I was one of the kids there. In a former life. Anyway, I got that picture. And of course, we ran the whole page one, you know, and it was just a question of when and of course, they got engaged in the rivalry. And did you think right then, because you saw them right from the beginning

in a way that others didn't. Did you see a kind of connection? Did you think this is real love? I did. I did. Certainly, I did because obviously when William was born, I was outside the hospital and I remember going over and congratulating him. I remember Harry Allen was saying, you're going to have any more? And he said, give us a chance, just get over this one. And then we went to Australia and that was five and a half weeks. And from the beginning to the end, it was a fabulous tour. They were just, they couldn't get their hands off each other. I had some really

lovely pictures of them. I mean, you know, I mean, one picture at Gisborne, as we were leaving New Zealand the last day and- Is this 81? 83. 83. This was Diana and he's just touching on the derriere. And I've sent this picture as a sort of a last picture, sent it, and it was the splash picture, and it was Charles Gibbs, Die a Pat Down Under. Great headlines.

Classic. Yeah, I mean, great headlines. And it was fabulous, you know, it was every time you took a picture of it, it almost went in the paper. And- Great for a young photographer to have that. Well, and also, you know, it was,

then days, of course, we were selling close to 4 million, the mirror was selling 3.5 million, the mail, the competition was fierce, you know, and it was absolutely dog eat dog, you know, and there was no, none of this ring the palace and check, ring the palace, you just did it, and you put it in the paper, and if the ritz come, they come, they,

nobody cared, it was just so aggressive. And they, well And they obviously went to great lengths to keep her from views. Did she like some of the attention or not? Because I'm hearing kind of two things. I'm hearing that she hid from the cameras at some points and that she was maybe talking to you and happy to pose for pictures on the other. So what was your take on that? In the later days after the divorce and after she was hunted and seriously she was. Yes, but before that, I mean, I can remember going through LO magazine looking for pictures of herself. I mean, she was, I mean, she wore beautiful clothes. I mean, I remember the King saying that, what Prince Charles said at the time, you know, we couldn't afford to pay for the real price for these clothes. I think I said to him,

well, you could sell a polo pony. It's just amazing to have you with your span of five decades look back. I think what's going to be really interesting for us is to talk to Arthur about how much has changed and get your take on how much has changed. changed and get your take on how much has changed and what's changed since. Well, we know the King, he'll always kind of seek you out and say, well, the Queen on jobs and come and see how you are and have a chat with you and, you know, ask you what's going on, your opinion of things, but it wasn't always quite so cozy, was it? I remember you telling me once about an incident where he came over and sort of gave you what for from his horse.

Oh, I probably remember, I was a castle in Desert Island. This and the first story I told on it was about our first encounter down at High Grove. And I was sent down by the editor to get a picture. You just moved into High Grove. And that story has been told a hundred times, but you know, I went to a big lens and I'm walking across this public foot path at the bottom of his land and he comes galloping up on his horse screaming at me. So you're on my land and I said I'm not on your land, I'm on a public footpath. He said it's for walking on, not for taking pictures. And I'd only been on the sun a couple of years, you know. I said, well look, I'm just doing a job. He says some job. I said, well at least I've got a job. I didn't mean that as an insult to him. I

just felt, you know, I'm working. Yeah. And of course, he hit that all so hard. He tore down to the back to the castle, back to the house. And I got my gear, I'm shy out there, got in my car, belted back to London as great as I could. About the following Wednesday, one of his policemen come up to me and said, what the hell happened that day? So I said, we're all sitting in the kitchen drinking coffee. He comes screaming in, he bangs the whip on the table, the coffee cups go flying. They're just supposed to be guarding me and our friend was on my front lawn. They are serious, serious. And then of course, another couple of bad, bad, bad, terrible rouse with him, you know, screaming at

me, you know, I mean, those days were the whole newspaper industry was aggressive. And the editor didn't care. I remember once coming back from an award ceremony. Prince Andrew had given out the awards and he'd given me my award and, you know, we got talking afterwards. That does seem like a different universe now. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, he was saying things like, you know, well, it's all right for you, you can retire. You know, I said, well, if I was your job, job, you want to retire. So you've got private planes, chauffeurs driving you around. I said, you don't have to worry about parking. You'd want to retire if you live like that.

Anyway, you got a little bit to stop you back, you know, and I said, hey, I'll come back. And the editor said, what's wrong with you? I said, you know, if I didn't realize that I've got the sack today, I want to give Andrew a white piece of my mind. And he said, you know what, if you don't give Andrew a right piece of your mind next time, then I'll sack you. Wow, how timely that is. So that was that was that was the mood of the country. I'm just trying to say how it was then, you know. No, it's interesting, because it's interesting to get your take on it as it was then

and the job then, which is very different than the job as it is now, because we're going to talk about what the last year has been like for the royal family. And what do we all think was the biggest moment of the year? There's been so many, obviously we've had the cancer diagnosis of the King, but also the Princess of Wales for me sitting on the bench in Windsor, saying cancer had been found, that she had embarked upon chemotherapy. What's your take on it? What's the kind of standout moment? I suppose, you know, thinking the moment of the year for me was when we were at Windsor Castle on Easter Sunday, and the King suddenly changed his mind and did a walkabout. Yeah.

And I thought, God, that means he can now meet the public so he doesn't fear of getting a cold or getting a chill or getting any sort of COVID and that gave me such a buzz, I'll never forget that. He walked across and he was waving like that and that was a great picture. And for me that was a moment because I'm not a person that kind of sucks up glue much, you know, I kind of, when someone tells me they've got cancer, I was telling them they're going to beat it. And I suddenly felt I knew somehow he was going to beat it. And I knew Catherine would beat it, you know, because they were going to get the

best treatment possible. And they would, as Kimilla said, if only he did what he was told, he would be better much quicker. So this Easter Sunday was after, they released a statement saying that he's diagnosed with cancer in the February, then obviously had a few weeks away from public duties. But then this was the kind of the first moment, wasn't it? This was the first moment when he went back to his old ways of meeting the people, which he absolutely loves. And to me, that was the thing, because that means I thought he turned a corner and obviously had

been told by his doctors that he could do that now, which means he was improving. How do you think he's coped with this year in terms of personally, Arthur, as you know him better than most of us know him, and in terms of doing his job as constitutional monarch. I think, Roya, that he does not want his legacy to be of a tired, worn-out, ill king. Whatever is going to show that he was here, giving it 100% the whole time. Feels like, doesn't it, Arthur, as you say, he's taken the decision that whatever happens with his illness and let's wish him really well, he's still having treatment, he's taking the decision that he's going to learn to live with however he's treated and just crack on with the job full-time. He's going to crack on full-time, yeah. And, you know, it's no secret that he's my

hero, you know. I mean, obviously we started off not too good in the start, but you know what, I've listened to him over the years. I've pleaded with presidents, I've been to every rainforest in the world with him where he's begged them not to rip them up. He's just an amazing man and it's changed my life. I drive an electric car, I've got solar panels on my roof, I turn the lights off when I don't need them. He's greened you. He's greened me, but not only has he greened me, but he's made me realize that he's right. And he's been right for the last 30, 40 years.

Yeah. And now we're all sort of suddenly saying, oh, you know, we've got to do something about club. He's been warning us about that. You know, it's not for us, it's for your children and your grandchildren. He kept saying that message, you know, and if you ask me now, if he rang the phone and I said, would you come out to Belmoral and could do a picture of me, I'll say, yeah, go on. I'll leave everything. I'll leave you and you, Roy, and if he rang the phone and I said, would you come out to Belmoral and take a picture of me? I said, yeah, go on. I'll leave everything, I'll leave you and you, Roy,

and I'll get up there and go. Outrageous, but I'll allow it for the Majesty. You talk about when you said he changed you, I thought that was interesting. I wasn't expecting you to go down the environmental route because I was thinking about your journey as well from Eastern Boy. And you've been everywhere.

You know, you've met the Pope, you've been to the Oval Office, you've been to, you know, the list is long. You've been to the Kremlin. Yeah. You know, probably won't be going back there often. Did you know when you first went out to photograph Princess Diana that you would have such an extraordinary career? No, no, no, the life it's been, it's been an amazing, amazing career. And of course, sometimes I pinch myself, you know, I'm not And of course, sometimes I'll pinch myself, you know, not only the Kremlin,

I've been into the great hall of the people, you know, three times in Beijing and the great wall three times. And I've been to, you know, these amazing places many times. And I've met some great people, you know, not just the Holy Father, but I mean, you know, the Dalai Lama and Donald Trump, you know, these are great characters. And it's been, as I say, it's been amazing. And you know what, even this year I went to Australia with him. And he went to Australia with you, Arthur. Well, it's your 31st trip to Australia working. But

of course, you've done more of these trips than Charles, because you did them all with the late Queen and all the other members of the family. Because you probably won't say it yourself, we should probably mention that you got a medallion from the Governor General at Admiralty House in Sydney during this latest trip, which is a huge honour in recognition of your work. I think that was strictly down to the King, because I did a special photograph for them with the King and the Queen and the Governor General and her husband by the Opera House in the background.

And I just love working with him and didn't start to at the beginning, so I thought, my God, it's pretty good now. Is there one of all the trips you've done, Arthur Arthur and you've done a lot, I mean you must have more air miles than anyone I know. Is there one trip overseas tour in your 50 years plus that really stands out in terms of blockbuster? There's only one. What is it? The Queen went to Ireland. I never thought the Queen would ever go to Ireland. Every year I used to go to the Palace. What year was this? 2011. Okay. I went to a party at the Irish Embassy, Christmas party, which Prince Charles was guest at. And Terry Wogan came up to me. I did Terry

Wogan show a few times. He said, Oh, I love it. He said, great news. He said, Queen's going to Ireland. I said, no. He said, yeah. He said, the ambassador just told us. It was fabulous. Five days. And it was just incredible. I mean, the things the ambassador just told us. It was fabulous, five days and it was just incredible. The things that happened there that day. It moved the dial in that relationship. Absolutely. No visit as much good as that. That really did more good than any other visit I've ever been on.

Mary Mack, the president of Ireland, made these most welcoming speech. Queen made a wonderful speech. It was just tremendous. And I was greatly moved by it. I mean, literally, when I was in the Gardner remembrance, where all the IRA Easter rising martyrs are buried, and they played the British national anthem and the Queen lay the wreath, I'll tell you what, it was very, very moving.

And so I say it was the most important to her, but it emotionally affected me. And so I came away from that I remember. And that's no secret. My wife was from Ireland and my wife was Irish and we have a house in Ireland. And so I'm very fond of that country. And I would love to say that it was always peaceful there. I mean, I've had some terrible times, especially in the north, you know, during the times of the Troubles,

I remember being scared stiff, working up there. And suddenly all this evaporated, this all disappeared. At the Dublin Convention Centre, when there was this amazing concert that the British Embassy laid on for the Queen, and the Queen went up on the stage to thank all the performers, she turned around to wave and then, and the audience, which was made up of the great and

the good of Ireland, former prime ministers, former presidents, industrialists, they stood up and applauded her for five minutes. Five minutes, it was tears in her eyes. I promise you, it was so moving. So that was the most important, it was only five days. You know, I've done a month in India with the King, I've done five weeks in Australia with Charles and Diana, I've done all these, but that five days was the most important I think I've ever done and I remember every detail of it, I'll never forget it.

Her Holiness Majesty, she's, and we've talked about this before, she's still blockbuster in terms of when we write about her, our readers are really, really want to read about her and we see that in sort of the figures and the feedback. In terms of all the members of the Royal Family you photographed over the years, we've just been talking about Charles and Diana and Catherine who will come on to talk about more. Would you say the Queen is still top billing? The Queen, certainly it was hard work. You used to really have to concentrate like crazy with the Queen.

Because it was when the Queen smiled, that's when the room lit up, that's when you knew you had a great picture because that smile, the best picture I've got of the Queen of her absolutely when that face lights up. And you have to be so patient for that because if she wasn't smiling, she looked grumpy.

And, but she wasn't grumpy. Women grumpy. And, and, and, and, but she wasn't. Women after my own heart. She knew what you wanted. And you, and you just get it. She would, I mean, she would just accidentally turn around and smile at someone leaving. You knew that the Derby, when she's screaming at the race, always coming out of the line. Or when she's, you know, I mean, I've got wonderful picture at the Derby where she's grumpy when she's obviously lost a bet.

I've done lots of tours with her. I went to America with her. I mean, they love her in America. I went to Australia with her. I went to India with her. And is that what makes a great picture? It's the emotion of the moment. Is that always what? I think, I think, you know, sometimes you don't know, like, for instance, we were in Washington, and we went to a suburb and it was this small housing project in one of the suburbs and there was this lady Alice Frazier and she'd just been given this new social house and obviously I was the pool photographer myself and someone from America and the Secret Service briefed everybody in the room. They said, on no account must anybody move. You don't hold your hand out to the queen until she offers her hand to you and you don't speak to the queen unless she speaks to you. Now you got it. Remember that. All right. Nobody move. Queen walked in. Alice rushed across the room,

grabbed the queen and kissed her. I went, Bosh, one frame, right? It's all it takes with you, Arthur. Let me tell you, one frame, right? I came out of there. I remember I was doing an interview with a Baltimore Sun and the reporter said, good picture. I said out of there. I remember I was doing an interview with Baltimore Sun and the reporter said, good picture. I said, keep your fingers crossed. I went and processed it. I had one great, this great frame and I sent it to London and there was a knock on my door and it was the American photographer. He said, he was like almost tearful. He said, he was almost tearful. He said, I missed that picture, he said, and they're screaming. It was from Reuters, one of the radio agencies. He said, could you give it to us?

He said, it's going on the loop on American television every three minutes. I rang the British Embassy. I said, look, what do I do? do is, yeah, give it to him if you would. I said, okay, give it to him. Anyway, following day, all the American papers used this picture and all the British papers used this picture except one, which was the Sun. Your own paper. And so I'm big in America, I'm big, but not with the sun readers anyway. Help them discover their heritage, learn about their ancestors, and make new family connections this Christmas. Visit ancestry.co.uk to give them a gift that is truly unique.

Terms apply. T'was the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Arthur, we touched on your view on the King and how amazingly well he's done this year with his health.

Of course, there's another member of the Royal Family, the Princess of Wales, that's had her own health struggles this year with a cancer diagnosis. And I think we're really interested to get your take on how you think she's approached that in terms of it felt. In the run up to that announcement in March, there was so much frenzied speculation around where Kate was. We had the announcement in January that she'd had abdominal surgery. We didn't know what for, Then she disappeared from public view.

Then there was that extraordinary, we'd love to get your take on the Mother's Day photo. We had insane frenzied speculation, particularly in social media after that. So, and then of course that unforgettable appearance on the bench in Windsor with her looking very frail, telling the world she had cancer. Do you think they've taken a different approach to all of that this year? I think the fact that she went out and did all that is amazing. And seeing that picture and seeing what pictures I've taken, the reason I did a picture during the Katari visit, I thought she looked terrific. But that year, that was a year where you just had to hope

inside that they were going to make it, the pair of them, they were going to get the best of finest treatment. And if they caught it early, they had every chance of beating it. And I think they probably both will, you know, I think she's, I think she said recently, she's cancer free, didn't she? But obviously, she's still going to build up her energy. And as I imagine, William doesn't want her to do anything until she's fully fit, you know, and I think that's right. And do you think he's been trying to protect her because that image, of course, was taken by Prince William, the Mother's Day image, which then became a source of contention because obviously she had edited it and she came out and said, Look, I'm an amateur photographer, I tried to edit it. What's

your take as a photographer? Do you think they should have someone come in to do that sort of thing? Let me tell you something I think about that. There was a big uproar about that. And they asked me to do a page 10 piece for the Sun. And I remember- Your analysis writing. My analysis, yeah. And I said, you made it with state, Kate,

what's all the fuss about? And quite honestly, it was her picture. She could do exactly what she liked with it. I mean, I looked at it first. I thought, wow, fabulous picture. I didn't look to see if that was right, that was right. I mean, I just looked at it and I thought, as, fabulous picture. I didn't look to see if that was right. I just looked at it and I thought, as I do with pictures of those kids, a lovely picture. I felt that they

were forensically being examined by news agencies, probably that's their job and they should do that. And I felt when she came out and said, look, I'm still learning, I thought, well, that was it. And that sort of put it all to bed in my view. And she just by that simple, yes, it was me. And I made a mistake. That was it. But I didn't think what the fuss was about because it was her picture. But you know, obviously, you know, when you put that there's always someone who can find some fault somewhere. And then of course, in September, when she announced the end of her treatment, we had that three minute video of her with the family. It was so intimate. They were in Norfolk in the woods picnicking. What was your take on that? When you first saw that, what was your reaction?

I thought it was fantastic. I thought it just showed that. I just showed what I think, believe truly that they are a wonderful family and a really tight family. And I just, it was a super piece of video. I thought it was professionally done, beautifully filmed. And I thought we'd come to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I thought this was, you know, this is getting back to normal. And now she's slowly doing different things. And, and- Are you pleased to see her back? I was lovely. I saw it at the Cenotaph and that was wonderful. So she looked stunning in that color black. And then I

did a picture of the Qataris and she looked pretty good then. And you know, I mean, I, she's not rushing back to work. And I think she's right. You know, I mean, she's going doing this to the day she dies this job. I mean, one day she'll be our queen, and she's got to be perfect. And because everybody will be first to criticize if she does any simple thing wrong. But you know what she does? She does most things right. And when she does it, she smiles. And when she smiles, it's a great picture. And I'm very pleased. That's lovely.

Wow, we look forward to seeing more of her in the new year. Yeah, I do too. You see more smiles. And of course, the royal family's pretty down. I mean, there's a few operating there. It was at a reception recently and talking to people there. And they're sort of people quite influential in the Royal Family. And they were saying like, you know, pretty Harry's not here because Harry was a great,

a great communicator. Where they, you know, I remember those days. I mean, Harry. Oh, I miss him. I miss him. I mean, I'm not happy what he's done. I'm not happy what he's written, but I remember the good days with him.

I remember when we used to go on jobs with him. And he'd be fun. They were fun, weren't they? Oh, and the end of the tour, we'd all go to the pub. We'd all have a laugh with each other, take the mickey. He'd say what he didn't like, he'd say what he did like. And we would have a laugh and it would be fun. I remember once I was in New Zealand,

I'd said something on television about him going bald. And he got this painted hand and put it on my head. I was with you that day. I mean, I was in New Zealand, I'd said something on television about him going bald. And he got this painted hand and put it on my head. I was with you that day. I mean, I was with you. You were quite cross about it. I was cross at the beginning, but I'll post, I'll smile for the photographs because you did, I did that job and you were very smiley. And I said, what do you do that for?

He said, because he told everybody on television, I'm going bald. I said, well, you know, you said that woman, yes, I didn't want you to tell the world, but that was fun. And then, I mean- We were in New Zealand, weren't we? Exactly. And that's what I mean. And then I remember him on the Cobra Kibana beach playing touch rugby with the kids, I remember him.

But he's Usain Bolt in Jamaica, all those things. He was fun dancing with the kids in Jamaica in his blue suede shoes. Do you think the Royal Family don't have that fun anymore? Well, I don't think there's that. Spontaneity. Yeah, because he was kind of joyful, wasn't it? Because he was, he was, you know, he just, he didn't think about it. I

remember once when he hugged the Jamaican Prime Minister. I said, What did you do that for? He said, Well, my father said she likes hugs. I thought I'd get him first. He wasn't stage managed. I think that's what it was. And he was a great communicator. And then when he was with kids, one of his great charities was well child. I did a couple of those jobs and the kids were crawling all over him and he didn't care.

And they were on the floor with him and he was fun with him. He was fun. And I tell you the Royal family would miss him because he was. And he used to say, my main role in life is to support my brother. And then suddenly it all changed. Do you think he'll ever be back Arthur? I hope. I mean, look, I believe in the parable, the prodigal son, you know, I believe that's possible. And anything's possible. So I would never say never. Just thinking about the kind of the joy of the pictures and the spontaneity. We kind of see that now with the little Waleses, don't we? We see Louis dancing on the balcony at Troop in the Colour.

Do you think they're bringing a new element to the way that we talk about the royal family? I think Louis almost directly jubileeed the Queen. He had his own kind of jubilee going on. Well, I mean, everyone was talking about how lovely the Queen made this wonderful appearance. She wasn't well, there was time on the balcony, beautiful view. And then of course, we were talking about Louis, look at that Louis. But you know what, he's that's who he is, kids are kids. You know, you can't do too much about them.

You can't pre-plan them, whatever they turn out, they turn out. But you know, it'll be fine. And I'll tell you this, it'll be fine. And I'll tell you this, that family is pretty solid. And you know, George, I see George looking just like his father at the same age. Very, very, oh yeah. I mean, William was so shy. You photographed William from the day he was born. I remember William was shy. I remember in Switzerland once, you know, he said to me, please Arthur, no more pictures. He was about nine or 10, no more pictures,

no more pictures, he said. And then he come up to me and wish me happy new year, you know, and so he was different, but he was very shy like that. I remember him getting on the bus at Zurich airport. I said, good morning, William. And he just went, I said, the answer is good morning, Arthur. And he turned around and smiled. And he said, good morning, William. And he just went I said, The answer is good morning, Arthur. And he turned around and smiled. Good morning, Arthur. So he was very, very shy. And I

see Jules the same. But you know, that William today, William is a true statesman, a global statesman. And, you know, they want to be a great king. So how can you feel the Royal Family's changing the way that it adapts? You know, we're seeing more social media, we're seeing more videos. How does that look to you from a... I think it's important, you know, social media. I think it is, and to let people know, I mean, because nobody seems to want to buy newspapers anymore. And it's everybody's looking on their

phones, which is where the social media hides. And so therefore, I mean, you know, it's essential. But at the same time, you know, photography, or I remember when we started doing the roles, you didn't care, you went, if they were hunting, you went hunting. If they were, whatever they did, you turned up and photographed it. And there was no barriers, there was no rules or anything.

You just did it. You wanted to go to polo, you turned up at the polo. You've won anything, you just did it. Now it's control. Now if you, if there's an engagement, you know, they say one photographer does the pictures and you can turn up and stand outside and do pictures if you want, but only you've got to apply for a pass for that. That's ridiculous. You know, it's a street, you know, it's a public place. It's more controlling now than ever. They're trying to control that narrative and especially with their own social media.

And if there's a bad story or a picture they're complaining to the reporter or the editor, well, you know what, it might be right, but it just seems to me that they want to control everything. And one thing I do agree with, and I must say, is that William keeping his children private is a great thing because I remember when he was a child and Harry was a child. You had the opposite experience, didn't he? Oh, God. We used to turn up at the nursery, on the start of nursery. Do you feel bad about that now?

Well, looking back on it, yeah, because, you know, but that was the norm. Everybody, every newspaper did it. I mean, when William started, when he went to Weatherby school, I remember taking a photo with me saying, like, all you do is photograph him in that cap. Just don't, I'll do everything else. You just do that, you know. And so it was like two of us from the paper doing this one picture, because we were trying to get it better and everybody was included. Picture was him in his school cap. And that's what they put up with every time, end of term, start of term. I remember when William appeared in william appeared in school play a picture of them walking across the road. Go to the school play and i will be looking absolutely fed up hated it and as i said you know that time in switzerland.

Please offer no more pictures you know i just felt so bad when i think back at that you know. And I felt so bad now when I think back at that. I didn't care because if I didn't do it, I'd have had no job. Everybody was doing it. Every newspaper had a royal team. Everybody was on every job. Every Diana job, you were standing outside there with you, in or out, you did it. It's a completely different landscape now, isn't it? Completely different, yeah.

It was absolutely totally aggressive. 80s and 90s, very aggressive. Wild West. And if you didn't measure up, you didn't do the job and someone else would come and do it. And paparazzi were rife. I mean, I remember Diana being hounded by them. I never did that, thank God, but they were hounded by paparazzi screaming at her and calling her all horrible names. To get a reaction, to get the picture of emotion in her face. I could never do that to her, you know, never could do that. We could talk to you, I think, for hours and hours, but we won't keep you that long.

Are there things you're looking forward to this coming year? Will we see you on another trip? I hope so, because I need to carry your cameras. That's the biggest part of my job. The thing is, I would like you to be there carrying my cameras. I don't know what I'm going to do. I know that I'll be working on Christmas Day at Sandringham. I'm looking forward to that.

You're amazing, Arthur. I am going to be doing the tour in the new year. And I'm going to be, you know, hopefully. And if I'm not, it's because I can't. You've got plenty of stories to share with your family around the Christmas Day lunch table. I know we shouldn't plug other things, but all I would say to listeners is if you haven't listened to Arthur's Desert Island Discs, it is a delight. It's a treat.

And I remember actually getting a very good news story out of it. I'm not going to tell you what that is. Have a listen and see if you can tell what new story I got out of that. But Arthur, after the year that the Royal Family have had, it's going to be a very, very special Christmas day with you up at Sandringham taking their picture. And if I don't see you before, have a very happy Christmas. And you too.

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