The Royals with Roya and Kate - Portraits at the Palace (Part 1)

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

This week, a special episode from an iconic royal landmark - Buckingham Palace. Roya and Kate are given their own private tour of the King's Gallery, currently home to more than 150 Royal photographic portraits, taken by the likes of Cecil Beaton, Dorothy Wilding, Annie Leibovitz and more. In the first of two parts, they look back at works from the 1920s to the 1980s and discuss the late Queen's coronation, and the relationship between the photographer and the sitter. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Roya. Hello, Kate. This summer, if you're in London to live or visit, there is, I think we both agree... We do. ...a glorious, sumptuous, revealing and deeply rewarding exhibition called, appropriately enough, Royal Portraits, a century of photography charting the evolution of royal portrait photography from the 1920s to the present day. One hundred years of royalty, Roya. Are you ready?

Where in London can you see the works of Cecil Beaton, Andy Warhol, Annie Leibovitz and David Bailey all in one place? Not in this studio, anyway. So Kate and I were given keys to the palace, sort of, to see the exhibition together at the King's Gallery. And we have not one, but two very special episodes. Two because, frankly, there was so much to see and discuss. You'll get the next part this time next week. So the gallery is split into three rooms, Chambers, Penathorn and Nash,

often referred to by the colours that they're painted, green, blue and red. Next week, we'll explore Nash. So today, it's Chambers and Penathorn. After you you Kate. No, after you Roya. Kate, here we are in Buckingham Palace in the King's Gallery. We have it all to ourselves. All to ourselves.

So isn't the usual kind of crowd of people coming round to look at the exhibition? It's just us We have it all to ourselves. All to ourselves. So isn't the usual kind of crowd of people coming around to look at the exhibition? It's just us. They've let us in. What mischief can we make at the Palace while no one's watching? But it's a fantastic privilege to be here, isn't it? In this incredible blue room where we start with the portrait photography in the 1920s and 1930s, it says on this panel. And we're looking now at a Hugh Cecil portrait of King Edward VIII. He really does look in that picture like a film star, doesn't he? He looks like a proper Hollywood glamorous film star. And of course, when we look at images of King Edward VIII so much, we think about, immediately we think about abdication.

of you know king abd the eighth so much we think about immediately think about abdication whereas there in this sort of you know he's there in a military uniform with various medals and his agelets looking off into the distance looking very sort of wistful and he is looking wistful i think there's something in his expression though isn't there that sort of foretells the future that he he's not quite at ease with himself in this picture. They've captured something about that kind of internal turmoil, I think. He doesn't look quite like he believes it. So what do we think this picture says about the inner turmoil of the man who then abdicated for the woman he loved? I think he's looking off thinking,

is this really what I want to do for the rest of my life? I'm not sure about this at all. That's his expression. Without Wallace Simpson. It's interesting in hindsight, you look back at a photo like that and you read so much into it with the power of hindsight. And I suppose the photographers who take these portraits

didn't really know at the time what was happening, which is why an exhibition like this is so interesting, because you and I can look at that portrait and go, oh, wow, is he looking a bit pensive? Does he know what's coming down the line? And actually at the time, the photographer's just thinking, I just want to get him looking away, sort of looking majestic. And he is looking away, looking majestic.

And I think it's, what's interesting about this one, I think also is that it's sort of aping the kind of portraiture of old, those paintings. It's a similar sort of pose as the paintings would have, yet it's a photograph. Right. Who else should we pick out in the blue room? I like this one from Madame Yvonne, Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester on her wedding day. There's something very kind of vogue cover about it I think taken in 1935 a wedding portrait you've got the kind of veil billowing out behind her it reminds me of the kind of you know the old-fashioned depiction of kind of angels and things like that when you see in

the Sistine Chapel the sort of flowers the soft focus of the background there's this sort of light coming out behind her um and a female photographer yes which was rare wasn't it it wasn't certainly was in 1935 she doesn't know that happy is all I'd say on her wedding day well how long do they actually have to sit there for to have these pictures taken that's something as well because now you have the likes of Hugo Bernandon, who is an excellent portrait photographer. But one of the reasons they like him is not just because he takes brilliant photographs, it's because there's no messing around.

But like Chris Jackson from Getty, they like him because it's good pictures. He gets on with it and they don't have to sit there for ages. But back in the day, I mean, it's so heavily stylized as well. I bet there was just armies of people saying, no, that second rose from the left needs to be one millimeter or over or something like that it's it's so

choreographed well we're now we're in a cecil beaton room what's not to love about cecil beaton who had such an interesting relationship with the royal family because he was born into a middle-class background and spent much of his life aspiring to be part of the echelons of high society and the royal circles in which he moved but he started photographing the royal family very early didn't he he got the call in like 1939 didn't he from the queen mother as we know her now and i think he was gobsmacked to get that call because his diary showed that he felt very much that he was gobsmacked to get that call because his diary showed that he felt very much that he was a reactionary revolutionary and then he had this call from

the palace to come and it was a call he's always wanted but was sort of shocked to get and I think it's the queen mother really driving it so when the queen the late queen Elizabeth II gave birth to Prince Charles it was the queen mother who said i know this chap you know let's get cecil beaten in and then he was in the fold and then we had so many from him didn't the queen mother say that she she felt he'd done an enormous amount to not normalize them but make them seem like a sort of you know happy normal family that the rest of the uk and the commonwealth could sort of relate to in terms of transforming their image to feeling quite removed and distant from the public. Cecil Beaton was sort of vital in bringing them into, you know, I say modern day of the time,

but some of the settings he photographed them in were quite modern. I love this picture of the then Princess Elizabeth in 1942, when she was appointed Colonel of the Grenadier Guards, the first woman to hold that position. And she's wearing a very jaunty cap with a cap badge of the Grenadier Guards. And it sort of prefigures her, of course, she would go on to become Colonel-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. But it sort of prefigures that long long life of service and dedication to the military and of course not so long after that she joined the ATS and served didn't she during the war. I think it's these wartime images where Cecil Beaton really established his kind of reputation because there's this one to the right of the image you're talking about now it's a royal family

at Royal Lodge and this was one of those kind of reassuring images that was put out of the royal family during the war years and it shows you know who and they stayed George VI referred to as we four he loved his little unit of you know his wife and their two princesses and there had been discussion hadn't there that before and the start of the war that they might well move they might go to Canada for their safety and the decision was taken really by the king and queen that no they would stay put and the princesses would go to Windsor for their safety but I suppose images like that as you say would have been reassuring to the public that we four were going through admittedly in castles and palaces were going through what the rest of the UK were too. There's an image I think here somewhere as well,

we'll have to look it out, of the King and Queen at Buckingham Palace after it was bombed. Oh, I'm being pointed. The wonderful staff are, here we go, smiling reassuringly. Some of them... Queen Mother swathed in fur.

So on 13th of september 1940 i'm reading this so it's not just from my my head so knowledgeable case let's just cut that bit out this is from my head on 13th of september 1940 buckingham palace was bombed during the blitz the king and queen who'd refused to leave london were unharmed but the palace was left with significant damage and this this, again, Cecil Beaton, so he's providing this kind of reassuring, nevermind, palace has been bombed, we're here smiling, it's all going to be fine, don't worry Britain. George VI is in his Admiral of the Fleet uniform,

so military, you know, Colonel-in-Chief, showing solidarity, and didn't the Queen Mother say, famously, after Buckingham Palace had been bombed, she could finally look the east end in the eye which again was another way of showing that they were going through what the rest of the country was going through and even Buckingham Palace wasn't exempt from bombing. And it draws on your point that you were saying earlier

about how the royal family are depicted by Cecil Beaton because I think here we've got images being used to present in a different way than they had previously this is all about you know wartime effort it's PR you know not just for the family but for the country and it had this incredible effect I think I'm just drawn drawn to these magnificent coronation photographs. Of course, Cecil Beaton was the official photographer for Her Late Majesty's coronation in 1953. And we are at the moment in here,

we're looking at a black and white photograph of her. These were the official portraits taken. And these are ones people will be familiar with. If you're listening to this, you probably know which one we're looking at. But there's all sorts of interesting things going on here because people will look at that and they didn't know the background and think, oh, she's at Westminster Abbey. Whereas actually it was a painted backdrop of the Henry VII Chapel at Westminster Abbey, which was hung when they did the sittings back at Buckingham Palace. And actually I was just reading some of Cecil Beaton's diaries this morning. And he said that when he came to do these sittings,

the Queen looked quite small in her robes and her eyes looked quite tired. And he said, in answer to my question, she said, yes, the crown did get very heavy. Indeed. But you would never know that from looking at her. I mean, she looks, I know these those images are so enduring they are so powerful in terms of what the royal family and the government wanted to project on coronation day which was the dawning of a great new age of the elizabethan era post-war when things were had been tough a young very glamorous very beautiful woman in a man's world no pressure Cecil top dog stealing the show so he spent a lot of time basically researching and doing sketches during the coronation so he

could get this image right and he obviously had that composition in his head didn't he with the the auburn specter and the crown before he actually went to shoot it. I mean, again, looking at those pictures of Duke of Edinburgh, I mean, he's so, he's dashing, isn't he? He's so dashing. In all his military garb. And the lighting is very interesting in these ones we're looking at. You can see something of Prince William in him, can't you there? Definitely.

He's saying Prince William's dashing. Exclusive. No comment. Kate Mansey says Prince William is dashing. Hold the front page. She's got a slight smile on her face as well. There is a softness to the image, despite the kind of the glamour of it all

and the, you know, power of the image. The scepter. The young queen. I mean, how exciting as well. There's something that I read that I thought was really interesting, which was that Beaton's photographs, the idea of them was to encapsulate the sentiment which was expressed by Winston Churchill, of course, prime minister at the time of the coronation. Because he said that the Queen was a gleaming figure whom Providence has brought to us in times when the present is hard and the future veiled.

And I think that kind of gleaming figure because all the lighting of these images are so important aren't they and the glamour of it and that kind of the lighting from the background this idea that she's going to lead the way that the future will be bright all that all those themes are at play there, aren't they? Yes, nods sagely. So as we move through to the next room, I can't help but notice that as we just, you just walk past the doorway of the Nash Gallery, right down at the end,

you can see that portrait of the then Prince of Wales looking very smart. You can't avoid his glare, can you? A very striking portrait of the now king. It is like one of those old pictures where when you move, the old paintings that when you move the eyes sort of follow you because no matter where you go in this exhibition you can't escape. Do you think that's been done very deliberately by the curator as part of the hang to sort of establish who's king now? Yeah. Might be a lot of pictures here of the late Queen. don't forget who the boss is you

can't forget him he's looking at you now with this really striking kind of red background this he's he's hung on a red wall in the nash gallery so when you come you to see the exhibition dear listener you will um you can't miss him what is it about women being photographed turning their heads? Is it time to talk about Princess Margaret, Kate? It is a stunning image that we're standing in front of. Taken by her then-husband, Lord Snowdon, and echoing a similar pose from some seven or eight years before,

and it was seen as pretty risque. But you see a very powerful presence, a real royal personality coming through. I recall the words of Lawrence Weschler. Do you, Kate, really? I believe I do, Roya. And Lawrence Weschler, definitely not reading this from podcast editor's script, Lawrence Weschler, art critic and journalist,

points out how the turned head, as we might see in a Vermeer or Velázquez painting, we might, we might not, Kate. As we see the head turning towards us, as Princess Margaret's done here, we not only look at her, but also as she gazes at us, we are forced to look at our own innermost beings. That is a turn, that is radical, radical departure for royal portraiture,

that we're always looking at the royal family we're analyzing them they're the most photographed people in the world and with these images people think they were risque because princess margaret is has no clothes on you can see her bare back her bare shoulder um taken by her husband lord snowden but she's looking at us. It's a kind of searching look, looking back at the public, kind of reversing that gaze, taking control of that sort of situation, if you like. modernized royal women but also celebrity women you know in the world and i suppose in that photo in both these photos she is i mean in this later one in this 1967 portrait she's looking a little bit more thoughtful obviously the dynamic in her relationship has changed a bit with snowden um she is still looking extremely glamorous but it's almost like she's looking at us looking at her going right back at you bring it on what have you got what have you got half her face is in

shadow and i think that's interesting as well it's the kind of and although she's no she's no discernible clothing on she's got this rather elegant um blingy earring kind of hanging down. And I think it's that sort of two sides, isn't it? It's trying to tell us about the two sides of the royal personality. You know, the one you see, the side you see, the side you don't, the naked element, the personal side, and the public side, the kind of, you know, the jewels and the side in shade, the side facing us, the side facing away.

It's saying so much in this image that, and that was Lord Snowdon's gift, right? That was his talent. Snowdon had the extraordinary ability to photograph very formal pictures of the royal family, of the queen looking very formal and Margaret, but also behind the scenes with his wife, Princess Margaret. These very famous, I mean, there's that great image great image it's not is it of her in the bath that Snowden took

you know I think you know everyone again extraordinary to see you know that kind of portraiture out there which Margaret was very happy to do she wanted people to see that side of her and that you know the intimacy and the behind the scenes, less formal, in the bath with a towel around her head photo. And this is quite a new medium, if you think about it now, obviously, with Instagram, everyone's got a phone that can take pictures. Instagram. Yes. Imagine if Margaret and Diana were still here.

Diana on TikTok. What would they be putting out on their Insta? I would love that. Lots of profiles. I think that's the thing that we forget that, and we so readily forget that it was a completely different time and these things were taking off and this was just out there. This was never been done before.

These sorts of images of these sorts of people. And like you say, Snowden had that brilliant access, obviously. But it is a woman, you know, in 1959 and 1967. It is Princess Margaret taking charge of her image. You know, she wants these more intimate, behind the scenes, glamorous, less formal, stiff portraits of her out there. Princess Margaret is taking charge of her image and it's not a royal formal stuffy picture. The camera loves her as they say. Well didn't wasn't there always a thing that. And then the photographer loved her when she married her. George VI could never quite believe

he'd signed such a beautiful child and said Margaret is my pride. Who was the pride and who was the joy? The pride was Elizabeth and the joy was Margaret. Yes. Because she was beautiful and naughty. That's a bit mean, that, isn't it? And here on her wedding day. A selfie. No, it was Cecil Beaton taking a picture of her and Snowden. But it does look like it could be a selfie. Really glamorous.

And Lord Snowden, of course, so fashionable, so iconic at that time. He was quite a character. Lived a fast life, I think that's fair to say, isn't it? They both did. Very stylish couple. They were the sort of, they were the very exciting addition to sort of high society and London life at the time when they became a couple and got married. And of course, there were all sorts of discussions as to whether or not Princess Margaret should

marry someone who had a job in trade. He was a photographer. Yeah, goodness. So she was quite pioneering in that respect. And then we've got the young family. So we've got the late Queen and Prince Philip here now as parents. And we're seeing them in a completely different light, more informal pictures. Again, we've got Cecil Beaton but he shot them you've got Prince Philip here with his arm around a young Prince Charles taken in

1960 so Charles would have been about 11 in March 1960 I think I'm right so yeah you are and he looks he looks quite sort of vulnerable there almost but with his father's hand on his shoulder and it reminds me of again when I was reading some of Cecil Beaton's diaries this morning when he first came across a young Prince Charles and started photographing him there was a really interesting entry in his diary I'll read it this was in December 1966 and he says of Prince Charles Prince Charles a nice sensitive boy who would be interested in works of art if his father were not determined to knock all that rubbish out of him oh well that's changed isn't that interesting you know we're standing here talking about this i've still got charles now glaring at us from the red room now he obviously

ignored his father because he went on to become a prolific collector of art painter patron of the royal collection trust but you know even cecil Beaton could acknowledge that, you know, that bit of the relationship was a bit strained and he wasn't cut in Prince Philip's mould. And coming from somebody who saw the royal family in those intimate moments, it means quite a lot, doesn't it? It's not just sort of an outsider as such. He was really an insider. And you've got the Queen with Prince Edward here.

Ah, so cute. Well, these are interesting pictures because, you know, there's always history looks back and always in a slightly predictable way, talks about the Queen as putting duty before family. And of course, when she was a very young Queen, having had Charles and Anne, suddenly her life changed. And she didn't have so much time to dedicate to her family. But everyone always says that the gap between Charles and Anne and then Andrew and Edward, by that time she was in her groove a bit more in the role. She had more time for her to younger children.

And I think those portraits, they're very intimate. They show her as, I mean, quite literally a very hands-on mother. She's holding baby Edward very tenderly. There's two shots on there, so there's side by side. So there's one where she looks more kind of formal, like she's okay, take the picture, and Edward's sort of facing away from the camera. And then you've got one where he's cuddled up close to her.

She's got a lovely kind of smile on her face, which isn't an image that we're used to seeing of the late queen. Edward has got his eyes open always hard in her baby photograph and she does it very happy and at ease and yes i wonder if she she probably knew this is my last chance that this is my chance where i get to be mummy in a way that she never had been certainly with the older two because she'd had this incredible role thrust upon her far earlier than she could ever have expected. Well, marvellous.

Listening back is so lovely. A photograph really is worth a thousand words. So are you saying it's better to see them than listen to us, Kate? Close enough. And we have plenty more photographs and plenty more words for you next week as we explore the more contemporary works of the Nashrim, which covers from the 1980s right through to the present day. Thank you, Roya.

Thank you, Kate. Till next time. you