The Royals with Roya and Kate - Portraits at the Palace (Part 2)

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

Roya and Kate continue their private tour of the King's Gallery, inside Buckingham Palace. In part two of their exploration of photographic portraits through the ages, they discuss Royal icons from 1980 to the modern day, where a contemporary approach dominates. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to The Royals with you, Roya, and me, Kate. Icons of royalty. Who? You and me? No, Kate. The members of the royal family, Andy Warhol, the Sex Pistols, David Bailey, have all turned their gaze on them. Ah, right. Today's episode is the second part of our private visit to Buckingham Palace and the King's Gallery. The exhibition is called Royal Portraits, a Century of Photography,

and in this part we explore the final room. The Nash Room, the Red Room. Which displays works from the 1980s to the 2020s. It's often very arty, there's lots of colour, and of course this is when photography went digital. Yes, indeed. So may I invite you, and I'm speaking to the listener now, to join us as we make our way into the final marvelously red Nash Room with King Charles, the boss, staring at us everywhere we go.

Straight through to the final room, the magnificent red Nash Room. Lovely. There's so much to take in here, isn't there? There is, isn't there? There's some brilliant, more contemporary portraits in here, which I think show how we've moved from the 1920s right up to present day and how the images have changed far more smiles in here you're allowed to smile nowadays in royal portraits in a way that you weren't in

the past apparently lots and pictures of a very smiley queen elizabeth in here can we start with warhol we can start with the war so from your background as a kind of arts correspondent, prior life, what do you make of this? This is Andy Warhol, a 1985, was it that long ago, image of Queen Elizabeth II, and he's sprinkled some diamond dust over it. You can see as you sort of move in front of the picture, you can see it kind of sparkling.

What do you make of this royal i always thought the fact that warhol who was just obsessed with celebrity culture and who was and wasn't you know pop art icon the fact that even in the as late as the 1980s and that's quite a late work for warhol that he still considered queen elizabeth to be worthy of pop art his pop art depiction it's fascinating because you think of warhol's very famous you know images like this of marilyn monroe and chairman mao and all the kind of you know the interesting historical characters that he has sort of plucked and i think the fact that he saw her in that with that sort of gaze means he recognized you know the glamour of her as well as just you know

at this stage in the 1980s she was you know in her I suppose middle ages you wouldn't necessarily think at that time he'd think ah the queen pop icon but he does and actually I remember when I was an arts correspondent there were great stories to be had from the government art collection which is which are this you know horde of artworks mostly held in storage i was about to say where are they where are they keeping they're mostly held in storage but they are the artworks that either members of the royal family sometimes or mostly ministers prime ministers ambassadors around the world can choose from the collection to hang in their offices or in their official residences. And incoming sort of

secretaries of state, particularly in the Department for Culture, were always very keen to get their hands on a Warhol print of the Queen. Because you'd often see like ministers and in-kind ministers photographed in front of them. That's really really interesting because i think you do look at this and the kind of squiggles over the top and the way it's been the pitch has been done a very contemporary way you know wonder whether it is respectful if that is when they first came out what the view from some within the palace was i wonder speaking about respect yes it's a very interesting very different kind of picture which is a lot of people will be familiar with this but it's the picture of the queen with god saved the queen sex pistols across her eyes and her mouth which was a very controversial image

this is the 1977 one that featured on the cover of the punk single god save the queen by the sex pistols and was released a week before the monarch's silver jubilee um discuss what do you make of well is it wrong to say that i mean i don't i think i know what we're both thinking i don't think we're going to say it are we going to say are we not going to say it no let's not say it okay listeners like what are we just what are we thinking of there? Some listeners will know. But why do you think this was such a controversial image in 1977? Does that say something about the deference with which the crown was held then?

Well, you're not supposed to deface any image of the Queen, are you? And then what you've got here is that kind of... The newspapers used to do when they were anonymising somebody, which was kind of put a black strip over the kind of eyes, which was supposed to anonymise the person. And then the words are here, like, God save the Queen, looks like it's been taken from different newspapers and things like that. And then Sex Pistols is written over where her mouth would be,

again, in that kind of way that a strange kind of troll of the olden days might cut different pieces of newspaper and put it on a some sort of threatening letter so it's got all that kind of coming out it's a punk era it's disrespecting the authority and the establishment isn't it so to see it here hanging in buckingham palace yeah have them having embraced that kind of dialogue from the past is bold and also shows the sense of you know how the royal family is seen how the institution sees itself now which the fact that it's we're even looking at it in this king's gallery is interesting and both the war hole that we're looking at and the Sex Pistols front cover is taken from a very traditional image of the Queen, of Peter Grugin. It's very, it's very, it's interesting.

It's a very traditional image of the Queen, which Andy Warhol and Sex Pistols artwork people have done two very different things with. artwork people have done two very different things with sort of ripped it away from being traditional and put their own one very funky pop art thing on it and one very anti-establishment slogans on it but it just both of them show how iconic the queen was late queen was that she became part of that pop culture i wonder what she thought when she looked at that sex pistols thing i wonder what she thought it was amusing one was funny now these are my favorite i love these absolutely smiley smiley smiley queen absolutely love smiley granny queen smiley queen in a suite of sapphires yes with a blue wonderful blue kind of dress on what what these the standout feature of these is that people who knew the

queen and worked with the queen often talked and still talk about the power of her smile to light up a room and a sense of humor i remember seeing that smile a few times when I did a few engagements with her and she was around horses. And her face would light up and that smile would come out and you'd see her beaming solidly for as long as she was around them. But you can sort of feel the power of that,

can't you, that smile? So we're standing in front of a David Bailey image of the Queen taken 4th of March, 2014. Knowing Bailey, I've interviewed him a couple of times he's probably cracked some slightly naughty joke because he was he's very good like that sort of relaxing his sitters that's exactly what he's done here isn't it she looks like she's enjoying that sitting don't you think yeah he's captured something it's the mask and these are

always my favorite ones of the royal family when the mask drops when that kind of the real personality I suppose comes through the kind of crown is off and okay she's got like you say the suite of sapphires on still looking very regal but what were these for I mean um ah a commission on behalf of the great Britain campaign to promote trade tourism and investment in the UK oh remember the Great Britain I do and we went with Harry didn't we to Brazil for that yes what happened to that that was when you and I first met 2012 happy times but interesting choice of Bailey who is best known I think for photographing supermodels of the 1960s and 70s and the Beatles and rock stars oh here she is she she is. She's the ultimate supermodel, isn't she, the queen?

The late queen. She's the ultimate rock star. Is that what Bailey's saying in these pictures? Yeah, she is. It's very rock and roll. I love it. I love these.

Rock and roll in a suite of sapphires. Brilliant. He made attractive women look beautiful and beautiful women seem real who did anna winter said that about patrick de marchelier and she was the editor of vogue she was and this is de marchelier's 1995 black and white portrait of diana princess of wales she's looks like she's pretty much naked uh sitting backwards on a chair and that kind of you know the way they used to sit in neighbors in the 1990s when they sit backwards on the chair when they're having a kind of an informal chat she does look like a model though doesn't she

does it like a model it's a fashion shoot kind of portrait absolutely gorgeous and I think quite cheeky she captures her sort of yes definitely her sort of quirky cheeky nature but actually this was a time when there was so much discussion going on around dana becoming morphing out of the royal family you know 1995 is the year before she she was separated from charles divorced from charles the following year died the following year after that She's moving out of the royal family into her new phase of independence and

trying to forge a new role for herself and I think there's a lot of that in that it's not a defiant look at the camera but it's certainly a look at the camera of I know my own path, I'm moving in a different direction. There's no diamonds, there's no tiara, there's no sort of imagery there. There's no diamonds. There's no tiara. There's no sort of imagery there.

There's no royal imagery at all. There's no earrings. There's no clothes, for starters. But she's on this kind of chair that looks to be like something you would find in the palace. It kind of looks like it's a gold chair or something, but it's at an angle. She's taking it, you know, she's taking it her you know she's taking the whole thing her own way and this was her taking charge of her own image as well because she noticed de Marchelier's work on the pages of Vogue in 1989 and then commissioned him to photograph

her and her children at Highgrove that year and this is one of those images that he he took but with her picking him as the bloke to do it and just over to our right i think this marie testino shot of diana is one of my favorite images of her and it's from a series taken in 1997 of course the year of her death and it was commissioned by vanity fair for um she was auctioning a lot of her dresses for charity that year in a big auction. I think it happened in New York. It did at Christie's. And of course, Testino was, you know, the powerhouse of fashion photography at the time. And in this picture, I think she's wearing a Versace dress and she just looks again like the Demarchelli image. She looks like a model. She doesn't look like someone who at one point was destined to be queen.

And also the fact that you say it's taken in the year of her death, it's just a reminder of just how young she was when she sadly died and how youthful, beautiful, how tragic the whole thing was. Again, she was seizing her image and keen to kind of put out the image that she was she'd evolved hadn't she from what she saw as the stiffness and confines and restrictions of the royal family into being an independent modern woman in the late 90s who was forging her own path the fact she was auctioning off so many of her dresses at christie's it was sort of like she was releasing the shackles of the past in what she hoped was

going to be an exciting new role. And of course, you know, tragically that idea was cut short. But right next to it, I like the positioning of this other Testino picture, which was taken of William and Catherine. Their engagement. When they got engaged. And again, it's that very sort of relaxed modern portraiture and actually sort of intimacy to it yeah wasn't there william's hugging kate in close you can

see the ring diana's ring on her finger quite clearly but the thing about the both shots is that kind of you know it's seeing the royal family in in a way that until then they hadn't really been seen in that way the intimacy dana looks like she's lying on a bed she's looks like she's just had a kind of conversation with a lover or something she's resting her head on the palm of her hand and then william and katherine they're hugged in tight close so obviously delighted and you can see that ring you know that nod to his late mother glistening on Catherine's hand so we're at a very interesting little sequence here Kate in the Nash Room which harks back to royal portraiture and photography sort of through the ages photographers like

present-day photographers looking back to historical portrayals of the monarch. And there are two very striking photos by Hugo Ritson Thomas, who was commissioned by the Royal Scottsdale Lagoon Guards to produce a series of images of people connected to the monarch, the late Queenizabeth ii and he's done these two portraits of the late queen and prince william and he's nicked the idea he has because what we can see here are is an image of the queen four versions of her sort of standing front sideways on then you can see her back and the same with Prince William who is in his his Irish guards frock coat and again you can see four versions of him and in between those two photographs is this very striking painting by Van Dyck of Charles I in three positions.

And Hugo Ritson Thomas sort of has borrowed from that incredibly famous portrait of Charles I and given it a sort of modern twist with the Queen and one of her heirs. And there's no kind of Holy Trinity angle to it because you've got kind of four when you've got the queen and William but it's interesting there's different faces so you get to see them in profile from each side and from behind and from in front and the queen it's quite a jolly image so she's wearing nice red dress big smile on

her face hands sort of lightly clasped in front of her William is much more austere so this one I remember Roya from your article you did when he turned 40 in the Sunday Times magazine no it wasn't when he turned 40 no it was just after Oprah so it was 2021 so it was three years ago now this this image was used wasn't in the magazine to present that article which I remember at the time was so it was such a great article you wrote but also the image was brilliant because it was analyzing the the image is analyzing every asset aspect of of william so you've got both profiles you've got him from behind from the front the picture he shows he looks quite strong there doesn't yeah the picture editor of the sunday times magazine i mean we we he deliberated endlessly over which image to use

and we looked through loads and loads of portraits, past portraits. There was a suggestion he might do a new portrait. But the picture, the image we used was the sort of cropped version of it, which was just sort of his forward-looking gaze. And it was, it was a very striking cover wasn't it he looks strong he looks confident he looks pensive he does look pensive he doesn't look entirely i would say

at ease but i think that's why it's such an interesting portrait because it's everything it's we know about william yeah it's everything we we think we know military uh kind of burden of what's to come response yeah no it's i love i love that portrait i think it's and it's interesting because i remember when these these portraits came out i remember being quite sort of taken aback going wow this is a really interesting way to present members of the royal family in this kind of four of them in one image but of course these things have been done before like you say the van dyke that we're looking at in which which hangs in between the queen and william of charles the first that it's all a modern take and an old idea which is basically

what the monarchy is doing and now so what i love this i remember when this came out lovely this is a nick knight photograph of the king looking very dapper in his black tie jolly with his mother the queen and this was taken in 2016 um she just turned i think she just turned 90 then yes i remember her 90th official birthday celebration it was one of the ones that buckingham Palace put out when all the celebrations were going on around her 90th and there is a lot of messaging going on in this photograph you can unpack this image can't you this is taken in the white drawing room at Windsor Castle by yeah by like you say Nick Knight I mean it was many years the fashion photographer yes how we know nick knight really many years before rain change but it speaks to it speaks our first of all i think a kind of harmony between queen and air

because for years and years and years so much was made of the tricky relationship between charles and his mother you know in the jonathan dimbleby book he spoke about how difficult that relationship had been with his parents but you look at this image and there seems to be a sort of a mutual understanding and affection between them she's looking at the camera he's looking at her very devotedly but it's also very strong powerful imaging from the queen going this is the future this is my heir and there's a kind of light shining on the queen's face so she's sort of lit up charles's kind of shoulder is going into the shadow but he it's almost like he's coming into the light so like you say that image of he's he's the next one he's standing behind the queen to study ready to

he's ready he's waiting in the wings with his black suit and he's yeah he it's it's quite striking they also look like they're sharing I love these pictures where you think what were they what were they talking about when this image was taken because they look like they're sharing a joke and the queen is looking forward she's got you know duty she's got the work face on but there's a little glimmer at the sides of her lips that there's something playing on the corners of her lips that she's there's some sort of joke maybe she's just cracked a joke and he's he's smiling at mum it is nice to see that here he is in person the boss main man the boss the boss as he is known the sovereign

camilla is known as the lady boss so we are standing here in front of a portrait taken of the king, then the Prince of Wales in 2013 by Nadav Kander. And it's striking, isn't it, with his jaunty cornflower in his lapel. This is the portrait that we've been referring to as we walk around this exhibition. You almost can't escape the eyes. They sort of follow you around. They're austere you know we could see him looking at us from when we were in the other room and now up close there's a softness to the image because

you can kind of see the reflection in his eyes and it's really interesting how this image moves depending on where you're standing and now I'm'm up close, you know, his expression seems a much softer one. I think the size of this portrait and the positioning of it here is very much, you know, to anyone walking around this exhibition, there's no mistaking the messaging here, which is... It's like a six foot picture or something. have you might be in a room surrounded by portraits of the late queen diana princess of wales prince william catherine but this giant great portrait of charles here is telling you in no uncertain terms this is the now this is the future this is the boss and he's not wearing a crown he's got like you say the cornflower in his lapel which is always a kind of nod to his love of nature i think he looks young though doesn't he when i think you know yes when i think about sort of what he looks

like now you know the grandfatherly king he looks so much younger than it was it was quite a long time it was 11 years ago but it's an interesting yeah it's an interesting the lighting's lovely as well they've sort of captured you know his face his facial features but he sort of fades into the background as a kind of a dark greenish sort of background behind him which sort of makes his face and sort of white hair and blue eyes stand out top dog yeah no mistaking no mistaking that Time for a fanfare. But that really blew me away, I think. It's a really excellent exhibition.

There's a lot to take in, isn't there? We're just on our way out now and we're just drawn to these last two photos in the Nash Room, both by Hugo Bernand. The first one is a picture of Charles and Camilla looking very at ease, sitting on a bench, gazing into each other's eyes. And as someone pointed out to me, you can see she's making like a little heart shape

with her hands in her lap. And I wondered whether that was a little Easter egg of Camilla, because she likes to leave these little tiny symbols, doesn't she, everywhere with her coronation gown and she had her you know her grandchildren's names sewn into the hem and things like that is she saying i heart you i heart you i hope so it's very sweet and then you've got the future here it is this is very the very one of the very formal photographs that hugo ben antic on coronation day last year with Charles looking resplendent,

holding the scepter and the orb, his ermine robe in front of him and to his right, his heir, the Prince of Wales and to his left, very chirpy looking Prince George in his Page of Honour outfit. Indeed, and that's the future right there in that one striking image. I may be king, here's my coronation day but this is

this is the line this is the future it's well worth seeing though I think yeah definitely because you it's like a little history lesson it is but not a boring one not a boring one I would never say it's boring I'm not allowed to say it's boring on there's someone from Buckingham Palace from the Queen's Gallery from the King's Gallery following us around, making sure we don't say the wrong thing. King's Gallery. No, it's brilliant, actually. I think it's really well curated. You go from the black and white images of 1920s

right up to modern day royal family and everything in between, you know. All life is here, Kate. All royal life, certainly. All royal life, certainly. The exhibition, Royal Portraits, A Century of Photography, runs until the 6th of October. Our huge thanks to the Royal Collection Trust for allowing us to see all 150 pictures alone. It has been a brilliant, fascinating display of work by extraordinary photographers and artists and a spellbinding story of the royal family over the last century.

Thank you, Kate. Thank you, Roya.