The Royals with Roya and Kate - Prince Andrew, the Chinese 'spy' and a Christmas exit

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

The Duke of York will not be joining the royals for Christmas in Sandringham following the controversy over links to the alleged Chinese 'spy'. Roya and Kate discuss what the royal family do can do about Prince Andrew. Plus, Roya shares insight from her interview with the Duchess of York, including the last thing Queen Elizabeth said to her.Further reading: Sarah Ferguson: I will not let Andrew down Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How often can you say a gift is truly unique? When you gift a loved one an Ancestry DNA test, you're giving them the keys to unlock their own personal journey of discovery. And with our festive sale now on, you can save on a truly meaningful gift. Help them discover their heritage, learn about their ancestors, and make new family connections this Christmas. Visit ancestry.co.uk to give them a gift that is truly unique. Terms apply. Welcome to The Royals with Roya and Kate from the Times, me and Sunday Times, you Roya. And we have a very big question to ask this week. What to do about Prince Andrew?

Who guards the guards? If Prince Andrew is a member of the British Royal Family, then whose job is it to make sure Prince Andrew's position is above reproach. Which brings us to Yang Tenbo, previously known as H6, a person this week described as a Chinese spy, although he strongly denies it. And he's been linked to Prince Andrew, which has brought the biggest kerfuffle since the last Prince Andrew problem for the royals. It's time to get serious, Roya. You're so right, Kate.

Now, it's fair to say the headline writers have had a field day this week. The alleged Chinese spy with links to Andrew banned from the UK, says the Times. The banned old Duke of York, says the Sun. That's my favourite. Well, actually, my other favourite one was the other Sun on this week, which was the picture of Andrew coming out as a cavity of a turkey saying, Andrew stuff for Christmas. Oh dear, it's not looking good. So this is Prince Andrew, Duke of York in a spot of bother yet again. Brother to the King, an eighth in line to the British throne, coming after the Prince of Wales and his family and the Duke of Sussex and his children. Well, I think it's fair to say he was a super crucial member of the Royal Family way back in the day.

A veteran of the Falklands War when he was in the Royal Navy celebrated a vibrant wedding to Fergie, Sarah Duchess of York, which was watched by millions back in 1986. And then a new role as a business and trade envoy, which he got after leaving the Royal Navy in 2001, thank you to Tony Blair for that one, but a deeply unfortunate relationship with the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, which led to him losing that role as a trade envoy many years later.

The world's worst interview is part of that. So he went on to Newsnight with Emily Maitlis, and there were two fictionalised dramas made about it and Prince Andrew was strongly advised not to do it and you guessed it he did it anyway. And now his role as a business envoy which he seemed to continue even after losing the official role for the government is at the center of this extraordinary affair because this week the story emerged that Andrew had links to an alleged Chinese spy so this all came out in a court case in which said spy in inverted commas had been banned from the UK by the Home Office on the grounds of national security. He was

then seeking to have that ban overturned, but he was unsuccessful because they ruled that actually they had very good reasons to keep this man out of the country. But in the process of trying to have his ban lifted, it emerged that he had this very close association with Prince Andrew. And all this led to a question in Parliament, including from CN Duncan Smith, a senior MP, who's questioned why

the security services had allowed Yang Tembo to get, as he said, so close to the royal family. Now I think it's important at this point to say here that Mr Yang has issued a statement saying this. Due to the high level of speculation and misreporting in the media and elsewhere, I have asked my legal team to disclose my identity. And he said, I have done nothing wrong or unlawful, and the concerns raised by the Home Office against me are ill-founded. The widespread description of me as a spy is entirely untrue." So when Yang Tempo, who's also known as Christopher Yang, was stopped at the UK border under counterterrorism laws in 2021, documents found on his mobile phone included a letter from Dominic Hampshire. Dominic Hampshire is a senior advisor to Prince Andrew, and he referred to an invitation that the Duke had issued to the alleged spy, to Yang, for the Duke's birthday,

dated March 2021. It did read, in March 2021 it read, I also hope that it is clear to you where you sit with my principal and indeed his family, you should never underestimate the strength of that relationship. Outside of his closest internal confidants, you sit at the very top of a tree that many, many people would like to be on. And he also went on to talk about how they'd managed to get people unnoticed into the Windsor home, which we assumed to be Royal Lodge. So he basically couldn't have been closer. And he was set up, wasn't he, as a, he was authorized by Andrew and his team to explore investments and business opportunities for him.

He was coming to events at Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle, St James's Palace, events to do with Andrew's pitch at Palace, Dragon's Den style scheme to link entrepreneurs with investors. So he was as close as clothes can be. His name is on the court circular, which is the official list of who is at official royal engagements. Twice within a week in June 2018, he went to visit Andrew at Buckingham Palace. He was previously known at the beginning of this case as H6, which all sounds very exciting and kind of espionage, doesn't it? But the anonymity order banning us from naming him was lifted on Monday, which meant that we could then reveal this man's name. And that all came out because that meant that we could report a bit more about his connection to Anjou, who is very much involved with him

on a business level, like you say, but also with Pitch at Palace China. So Yang was very much involved with that. And he was a co-founder even of Pitch at Palace China. So Yang was very much involved with that and he was a co-founder even of Pitch at Palace in China, which is this Dragon's Den style competition the Duke started years and years ago to introduce entrepreneurs to people with investment who could then help kind of grow their business. So as things stand, Yang is denying he's a spy, and Prince Andrew put this statement out, and it said, the Duke of York followed advice

from His Majesty's government and ceased all contact with the individual after concerns were raised. The Duke met the individual through official channels with nothing of a sensitive nature ever discussed. He is unable to comment further on matters relating to national security. What we don't know, of course, from that statement

is when those concerns were raised with Andrew. Wow. There's lots we don't know. There is an awful lot we don't know. There hasn't been yet said. But what does this reveal about what Andrew's been doing? Pitch Up Palace is on the face of it a very useful thing to help young people and entrepreneurs and really grow businesses.

But Andrew is taking 2% of Pitch Up Palace global. He was taking 2% of any deals that were done. And of course, we spoke about this a lot about how easy getting the money to fund his lifestyle at Royal Lodge given that the King this autumn revoked his financial support from the Duke. So this all plays into this kind of bigger conversation that we're having about Andrew, where his money is coming from, what he's doing, his money and all that sort of stuff. I think it's also surprised a lot of people because we thought that after that disastrous interview in 2019, when the Queen basically made him step back from public life, he stepped

back from public duties, he had his military titles stripped, he had the use of his HRH styling stripped, that was supposed to have been really the end of him publicly. He was supposed to and the King and I think the rest of the royal family and the late queen hoped he would live a quiet life at Royal Lodge, occasional bit of riding and a round of golf. That's what they hoped. That's what they thought they'd drawn a line under it because they'd issued all the sanctions you could possibly issue.

But then this. Well, he remains a member of the Order of the Garter, but even that is kind of subject to kind of restrictions, because he doesn't take part in that procession every year at Garter Day through the streets of Windsor when they all dress up with the plumes and the long robes. He is allowed to take part in the private gathering, the lunch behind the scenes. So that's the only thing really that he's still allowed to do. He's still a member of this order of chivalry. Some people have questioned whether that should be the case.

And what questions do we think he still has to answer? I mean, do you think we are ever going to get any accountability from Andrew as to where he has suddenly found the funds to stay in Royal Lodge? Because of course, the King has confirmed that he's cut his personal financial financial aid to Andrew which was in the region of a few million pounds a year to keep him at Royal Lodge the King has desperately tried to encourage him to move out of Royal Lodge into Frogmore Cottage because he thinks it would ease the financial burden on him bring him within the security cordon ease the financial burden there he's, but he's told, given verbal assurances to the bean counters at Buckingham Palace, that his finances now can suddenly keep himself at Royal Lodge, come from

legitimate sources, but he hasn't produced any documentation. But it also means that he's now paying for his own security at Royal Lodge, which means that nobody but him, as their sort of pay masters, will know who goes in and out of there. This is the question, isn't it? Should we know what right do we have to know where that money is coming from? My argument would be if he's made these connections, he's made lots of trade connections through this role that he had with the government for a decade as trade envoy, as a sort of special representative representing Britain PLC on the global scale when it comes to investment and

trade. Was he representing himself as well? There's still questions to be answered there, I think. And then even when he stepped down from that, there was a strange statement saying, well, you know, I'm still going to be doing stuff along these lines. I just won't have an official title. It is extraordinary, really, we all sort of thought that after

the Epstein scandal that rumbled around, the settlement that he cut with Virginia Juffre, of course, emitting low liability, but he cut a settlement with her, so that didn't go to court. And he's always denied her allegations of sexual abuse. That that would be the end of it. It's come back now. I mean, he's back in the headlines in the worst possible way after the worst possible year for the royal family, who felt that they were only just coming back from an incredibly challenging time with the king and the princess of Wales, both recovering from cancer. In terms of sort of reputational damage for the wider royal family, because of

course you and I speak to palisades and sources all the time who speak of faint hopes that this really only damages Prince Andrew and not the rest of the family. I mean, I don't think that's that realistic to you. I think this week we've seen that they are very well aware that the repercussion or reputational damage, the kind of back blast of the bomb, if you like, is kind of, they're going to be hit with a shrapnel. And that's why palace insiders have been saying, why doesn't Andrew do the decent thing and voluntarily withdraw from public view over Christmas?

Because he remains a part of the family. We're always told that the king cherishes that bond of blood they have as brothers. But he does respect that, that they're family, that they're brothers. But when it comes to Andrew being seen walking alongside the family at church, on Christmas Day at Sandringham. And then of course on Thursday this week we have the annual lunch where the wider family are invited. In this case it's Buckingham Palace the last two years, it's been at Wings of Castle. This is for the wider family, for those

who aren't invited or can't come to Sandringham on Christmas Day, that they can all have that big get-together. There's about 70 of them go to the lunch. It's private again, you know, we don't have reporters in there for that lunch, but we do see members of the family going in and out of the palace in cars. So he's been encouraged to stay away from that and we had the confirmation today that he has withdrawn from that as well.

So him and Sarah Ferguson together will be staying away. And I think the King is very conscious of the fact that his brother is a reputational risk to his reign and to the monarchy. Ongoing reputational risk. And even though his mother was very, very fond of him, even she acknowledged that he had to step down. Almost took a firmer line than the King, didn't she?

Because in those last few years of her life, after the 2019 Newsnet interview, he was not allowed to publicly walk with the royal family to church. But on Christmas Day in the last couple of years, the king has let him do that as a sort of very soft rehabilitation of Andrew in the last couple of years. And now that's gone again. Yes, although during the last reign, Andrew kept that office at Buckingham Palace and used that on a lot of his company documents.

So as soon as Charles came in, that office was gone. His stuff, you know, get your cardboard box, pack up all your bits from your office and you're out. And the question this week has been on everyone on the palisades lips, what other sanctions can we impose on him? We've taken everything away. Christmas Day was it, wasn't it? Christmas Day was it. It was a kind of a shot across the bowels, wasn't it, that they're watching. It's going to be Turkey for two with Andrew and Fergie at Royal Lodge.

Yes. You know, the family dynamics between Charles and Andrew always fascinate me. But another relationship that fascinates me is Andrew and his ex-wife with whom he still lives and his, I don't think is, it's overestimating it to say that she is his biggest and most vocal supporter. And there's a brilliant piece in the Sunday Times in the relative values column where, you know, we have two members of the same family talking about their relationship.

But of course, it was Fergie, Sarah Ferguson, and her sister, and you did the interviews for that. I did. And there were some really interesting lines to come out of that. One, she talks about caring for her late father, Major Ron, and saying that he was a sad man, and in many cases, in many ways, she's doing the same thing now, i.e. caring for a sad man.

And true. So what was that like? What did you take from that interview? It was fascinating, actually. And I should say that I did the interviews with Fergie, Sarah, Duchess of York and her sister Jane, before all the China stuff came out about Andrew. But it was sort of no less fascinating because I mean, I found interviewing Fergie fascinating

because she was so incredibly honest. I was- Pimple machine. I was amazed by how candid she was in terms of answering questions about Andrew, about the king, the queen, the relationship with the late queen, you know, the last thing the late queen ever said to her. But what was that? Well, the last thing the queen said to her was she said that, you know, she'd known the queen all her life since she was a child, because her father, Major Ronald was polo manager for the royal family, so she'd been around them all her life.

And then she was very moving about the Queen and said that even in her darkest times, through all the sort of ups and downs and controversies that Fergie had in the 80s and 90s, and there were many, she said, the Queen never lost me. She was always there for me. She always encouraged me. And the last thing that she said to her was,

just remember yourself is good enough. And she said it made her cry and it still makes her cry thinking about it. Do you think that's really what the late Queen said? That's what she said. Had to take up. That's what she said. And it's very Instagram friendly for the late Queen.

But on Andrew, it was fascinating because I think it's fair to say a lot of people find that set up unconventional. Unconventional. She's talked in the past about being the happiest divorced couple there is. But what was really interesting was to, I asked her about why she still supported him so loyally. And she said, well, you know,

he has supported me through thick and thin. I'll always support him. It's one of the reasons that the queen, the late queen loved me so much. But she did use this phrase that it's like caring for a sad man, which she had experience of when her sister left for Australia when they were very young and her mother had left her father and gone off to Argentina with a polo player. And she was left at home with her very miserable father and she basically said it's given her training for

what she's doing now with Andrew, which is looking after a sad man. So it was really interesting to dig into that and hear from her herself, how she views that relationship. Become a kind of intermediary now between him and the King. So the King has kind of used her to try to, as a conduit to communicate with Andrew, especially when they had the standoff over the Royal Lodge, it was very much hoped that she would be able to kind of smooth that, be the bridge between the brothers. And it seems to have been the case this week,

indeed it was the case this week, where she said to Andrew, and Andrew agreed that they should step back from Christmas, go into Christmas in that kind of public way. I do wonder if all the stuff that's come out this week about the Chinese deals, you know, all the meetings behind the scenes, Dominic Hampshire's talk about, you know, he followed your wise advice and, you know, we've been doing things kind of discreetly. How sad Andrew really is and whether he is still okay, sad because he's out of that kind of role that he loved so dearly and he doesn't have the military on us, he doesn't have the pomp and the status that he once had.

But I wonder whether it is just kind of Netflix and golf or whether he has actually been quite shrewdly operating and using the contacts that he had while he was in official duties to try to line the coffers because he's getting money from somewhere. I just wonder if that is something that we should be looking at. We probably should and maybe we will. Anyway, I think watch this basically, I think Kate and I can certainly agree on the fact that it feels like Prince Andrew, we're not quite done with Prince Andrew yet.

I don't think we've heard the last of him. I think throughout our careers it's been the longest running story, because all the other stories, they come up, they go down, they change, they morph. But Andrew is the constant, you know, I look back on my cuttings from years and years ago when I was reporting on Andrew this week, and it's another thing here, another thing there, another thing, you know, and it's all to do with money, it's all to do with kind of foreign friends in the right places with the right connections. And Andrew's mixing in these interesting circles and what influence they were trying to get from Andrew with this connection, what

they were trying to get out of him. How often can you say a gift is truly unique? When you gift a loved one an ancestry DNA test, you're giving them the keys to unlock their own personal journey of discovery. And with our festive sale now on, you can save on a truly meaningful gift. Help them discover their heritage, learn about their ancestors,

and make new family connections this Christmas. Visit ancestry.co.uk to give them a gift that is truly unique. Terms apply. So, Kate, we know we're not gonna see Andrew or Fergie, sadly. I think she would have been keen to have gone at Sandringham on Christmas day, but we will see the rest of the royal family out in force after a very challenging year. Who are we gonna see the rest of the royal family out in force after a very challenging year.

Who are we going to see? How many? Well, the Prince and Princess of Wales and their three children and William spoke recently about saying it's just a small family get together, just about 45 people. And of course, the Princess of Wales got her Westminster Abbey carol service, which we've spoken about before, but people haven't seen it yet. They'll see it on Christmas Eve on Teddy.

Definitely worth watching, I'd say. And we'll probably see the little ones again, won't we? We'll probably see George and Charlotte and Louis with their cousins. They like hanging out with their cousins on that walk, don't they? They're always semantics. They always be hanging out with Savannah and aren't they? Oh, the second cousins. Yes.

Yeah. I was going to say the Montecito cousins. That would be, that would be a picture. We Montecito cousins. That would be a picture. We're not expecting Harry and Meghan. That would be a picture. I know. But we've had their Christmas card out this week. Yes. Now that was interesting. Oh, well, have we had their Christmas card?

Well, we've had the public Christmas card. There was a commercial Christmas card that was put out for kind of commercial purposes. So you don't think that's the one that's gone to King Charles? It's not the one that's gone to private friends and family. Do you think any have gone to private family over here? But we saw a glimpse, didn't we? A rare glimpse of Archie and Lily in that, in one of the pictures. Yeah, from behind, from a distance. Both with their red, shock of red hair.

Yeah. Yeah. Quite sweet. It was on behalf of the office of Prince Harry and Meghan, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. So quite a few stages removed from them wishing you happy holidays and showed all them, you know, their images of, you know, a little wrap up of what they've done this year. But at Sandringham, we're going to have, we know we're going to have Tom Parker Bowles is going to come for the first time, isn't he?

Yes, the Queen has said, look, I'd love for you to be there. We saw the Queen this week, actually, with her family in a brilliant series of pictures and a little video when she took them to the theatre. Very low key. And then they all clambered into a white mini-bus afterwards, including the Queen and her daughter, Laura. And I thought that was rather jolly. It wasn't grand.

There wasn't a big kind of convoy of armoured vehicles and things like that. They just got into this one white minibus and a little family trip and off they went. It's nice that they can still do things like that, I think. She relishes it, she loves spending time with her grandchildren. It's her favourite thing, isn't it? It is. And it's nice that even though she's the Queen of England, she can still go out to the theatre relatively low-key. That's relatively low-key.

And do that. Yeah. Yeah. Good do that. Yeah. Good for her. So as well as the church service, Christmas Day sees the King's Christmas message. And I think it's fair to say that after the year they've had, Kate,

it's been quite a year with an enormous amount going on, good and bad and challenging. This is going to be a biggie, this Christmas message, isn't it, from Charles? It is. It'll be his third, won't it, as King. But I think it'll be probably his most important. He's going to talk about what the year's been.

You know, he'll touch on personal, the things he's done this year. I expect he'll mention Australia and Samoa. He'll talk about international difficulties that the world has seen. You know, he'll broaden it out. And it'll be really interesting to see what he says and how he addresses it, I think. Do you think he'll touch on family togetherness? I think he probably will. Family unity?

Well, maybe... Despite the absence of Andrew. I'm not sure you can talk about family togetherness when you've got Duke of York and Harry not together with the family, but I think he'll talk about mutual respect, sort of mutual support, I think is probably how he'll phrase it. Well, it's always a highlight of the Christmas schedule. We're going to be taking a break over Christmas, but... Say it, you say it.

Don't think we're not going to be gracing your Aries. No, no, because we're going to have some very special episodes. We're going to be looking back on the year and looking back over the past few decades of Royal Reporting with the photographer and journalist, the legendary... I was about to say and legend, Fleet Street legend. The legendary Arthur Edwards. But until then, from our homes and our hearts, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

Bye Kate. Bye. How often can you say a gift is truly unique? When you gift a loved one an ancestry DNA test, you're giving them the keys to unlock their own personal journey of discovery. And with our festive sale now on, you can save on a truly meaningful gift. Help them discover their heritage, learn about their ancestors, and make new family connections this Christmas. Visit ancestry.co.uk to give them a gift that is truly unique. Terms apply.