The Royals with Roya and Kate - Princess Anne at 75, Prince George at 12 and Royal Lobbying

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

This week on The Royals, Roya and Kate dig into Royal Yacht lobbying, Princess Anne’s no-fuss 75th birthday, and Prince George’s latest milestone. Plus: questions around Harry and Meghan’s Netflix future, an racing visit to Newmarket, and strong support for the Lionesses ahead of the Euros final. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to The Royals with me, Roya Nika. And me, Kate Mancy. Today, if there's a theme, it's that time passes, new generations come along, the generations mature, and things that seemed quintessentially royal slip away. Such as the royal yacht. Exactly. So first we turn to revelations discovered at the National Archives at Kew that give a rare glimpse into the private workings of Buckingham Palace. Yes, let's go back 32 years to 1993 when, after 39 years,

it became clear that the Royal Yacht Britannia was nearing the end of her operational sea life. And the big issue for John Major's government at the time was whether to invest a cool 50 million plus on a new yacht. Well, it's widely believed that the late Queen favoured the idea. And what these new documents reveal is that senior courtiers privately, obviously probably hoping it wouldn't come out, approached Downing Street to gently influence their decision. Their aim was to persuade the then Prime Minister John Major to issue a common statement highlighting Britannia's inestimable value to the nation. Does this throw the whole concept and mantra and constitutional status quo that the royal family are above

politics or meant to be. Does it throw all of that into question, do you think? I don't think it throws it all into question, but this is political lobbying. There's no mistake about it. So it's pushing the boundaries. So this all came to light by the National Archives at Q releasing some government documents essentially. And in there is a whole raft, there's 338 pages detailing the back and forth between the palace and the government about what would happen with the Royal Yacht. This was Royal Yacht Britannia, obviously, that the Queen and the family used to love to holiday on, go around the British Isles, but also it was a huge kind of pillar of the state visits.

It was something that they traveled abroad on. It was a big status symbol for the UK, wasn't it? It was, it was where, you know, the Queen entertained Nelson Mandela. She had lots of big guests on board and they would have kind of state banquets on board. But also it was a kind of a home from home for the Queen, a way of her sort of completely

escaping palace life really. And you can now, obviously now we know it's a museum and you can go and look around and it has her front sitting room, which actually looks like any other kind of front sitting room in the early 90s with the kind of floral sofas and things like that. And it was quite chintzy. Well, it's a way that she could have more of a kind of quote unquote normal life on board the yacht. But of course, at the time, there was a lot of discussion about money, how much it would cost. It became clear in John Major's government that essentially they were going to either have to do a major refit like they had in the 1980s, which had cost 17 million pounds then they would have to do that again or for count for a new replacement yacht. So 50 million was a conservative estimate really. If they wanted to have one with a

helicopter landing pad, that was going to be more like 85 million pounds. And that's in 1991, 92 prices. So were they going to do that or were they going to scrap it completely? Now this shows the back and forth and the lobbying that went on with Sir Robert Fellows, who's the late Queen's former private secretary. Diana's brother-in-law. Absolutely establishment through and through, but widely respected actually in and outside the establishment. And he was saying essentially to number 10, that John Major, as part of a speech that he was giving to the Commons, he should say, what a great job that Royal Yacht was doing and how important it was to the nation, what value it had. It came back in the documents, if you go down to the response, you can see

that the government official who's leading the steering group say, actually, that would be prejudicial against that a future decision. And you know, the fact that the idea that the Queen didn't have, you know, they'd already said that she was neutral, she didn't mind which way the decision went. But the official says in the document that hardly rings true, that she obviously did have a say. And we know because when it was decommissioned, eventually, she cried, she cried, but it seems to have had the effect. So these lobbying, this lobbying behind the scenes did have an effect, it seems, on John Major, who said, if I win the next election,

I will replace the yacht. He became so close to the Royal Family, didn't he? There was that wonderful play, The Audience, which came out a few years ago and had Helen Mirren originally playing the queen and looked at all those different relationships she had with prime ministers over the years. And it was incredibly well researched and well sourced.

It was written by Peter Morgan, of course he did the crown. And he had help from some prime ministers and he had help from John Major. And he said, you know, when you watch the play, you will understand why he became so close to the royal family and why everyone was, you know, quite didn't understand why when Diana died, he was named as a guardian of William and Harry. Because of all the prime ministers, I think, you know, he was one of the very few that the Queen, I think, felt she had a

bond with beyond just that weekly audience. The question is whether this had an effect on his decision making. Would he always have done that, being quite sympathetic to the royal family? Or was this lobbying successful? So the steering group were invited on board Royal Yacht Britannia for what was described as a splendid lunch in the thank you letters that were then sent afterwards. Is that appropriate? Should that have been the case? And then, you know, if you go back, the documents also go back to 1991. So at that time, John Major was preparing to go up to Balmoral for the annual Prime Minister, kind of get away to Balmoral to chat with the monarch.

Put your wellies on and chat through thoughts of the day. And the Minister of Defence sent lots of briefing notes to number 10 of what the Prime Minister ought to say if the Royal York Britannia came up in conversation, that was two years before this was all going on. And they said that actually, you know, if the Queen was minded to kind of let it go, he should kind of heartily agree and to sort of suggest that perhaps it's quite controversial to spend so much money on a refit of a yacht if it came up in conversation. Now this was all going on with when the Queen had said that she would pay income tax.

So this is talking about how the palace would shape the speech that John Major would give to the House of Commons in which he would say, which is quite a landmark moment, that the Queen would pay tax in order to compensate really for the public money that was going into rebuilding Windsor Castle after the fire of 1992. And as John Major was drafting that speech, that's when this idea was that they might squeeze in a little bit of a big up for the Royal Yacht. But it never happened. It's really interesting because you and I

having quite recently a few weeks ago been to the annual sovereign grant briefing, talking about money, all about money, the big story that came out of that, the decommissioning of the Royal Train, and the reasons given for it, that the King has taken that decision based on looking at what it would cost to

completely renovate it, to modernize the rolling stock, how much each journey costs, that it was just, you know, the King, as much as it contains and represents so much royal history, he just took the view, it's too expensive. It's no longer, you know, fiscal discipline was the phrase used. And he, you know, as much as he may be attached to it, just thought this has got to go because it doesn't,

it's not going to be a good look if we keep it going. It's too expensive. It doesn't really represent that. Will the public continue to pay for a two day journey that costs 40,000 pounds? It's interesting in how he obviously, I suspect, takes quite a different view to relics like that than his mother did.

Royal Train was on my mind this week actually, because as I was going through all the documents and it's so exciting to see the kind of confidential stamps and top secret sort of stamps on these things and you finally get to see them. Yeah. Well, will we see those documents about the Royal Train X number of years from now? And I did wonder with all the WhatsApps and emails that we have now, whether there will be a slice of kind of documentation that actually will never

perhaps see the light of day. I wonder if because of technology, it will be less transparent going forward, lobbying to protect the train. Anyway, the Labour landslide put an end to all of that, didn't it? It did rather, didn't it? Tony Blair came in and the Queen was seen

to be shedding a tear when the yacht was decommissioned. I think ultimately, as sad as it was for her to lose Britannia, it probably was a very good thing that that very expensive vessel didn't keep chugging round. I don't know, there's something about, I mean, although Boris Johnson was very keen to revive that idea, and that got swept away along with Boris Johnson. Anyway. Ah.

Roya, turning now to a brilliant piece you wrote in the Sunday Times about the Princess Royal. Thanks, Kate. Famously allergic to fuss. She's a bit of a workhorse. No frills. No frills. And seems to be outpacing everybody else.

She's going to be 75 in August. So tell us about how she wants to celebrate. How has the Royal Mint celebrated this landmark? She has refused everything. God love Anne. No frills. What I most enjoyed hearing about Anne's milestone is that there was to be no milestone and that every attempt by Courtier, so for the past year of scheduling meetings with her to discuss plans for media interviews, new portraits, new photos were just quite a few rescheduled and she just cancelled them. Kind of an eye roll and a sigh. And then in the end, they just gave up and she basically said, I will do things for my birthdays that have a zero,

but I won't do things for my birthdays that have a five. She did a lot for her 70th. She did interviews, she did, there were new portraits. That goes right to the heart of Anne. The only thing other than this new five pound coin, which was released with such little fanfare last week, that you know, blink and you miss it, which is just how she likes things. It goes to the heart of the only other thing she did and agreed to do which was I think an idea put forward by her private

secretary which Anne was completely up for was to have this charities forum at Buckingham Palace where she had more than a hundred of her charities at the palace and you know had a tea reception. She gave a little speech typically self-effacing and said, well, I didn't ask to be here, but you asked me to be your patron, so here I am. And just wanted to hear from her charities about what else she could do to help them. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because people go, oh, so much duty and devotion

and isn't she great? But actually, she looks at that and just does her job. She's like, that's just me doing my job as support to the king. And very much like her father before her, which the time scale seems to be she's following. The time scale was interesting to me. I was, I have to say, hearing that plan

that she has actually, you know, people think Anne will go on forever because she is the workhorse of the family. Hardest working role. She seems to top that list that Timmy Donovan does for times almost every year. Last year, I think she did 474 engagements. You know, she was top of the list.

Admittedly, the King had to step back for a few months with his cancer treatment. But I thought the timeline, as you said, was interesting, that she's looking at her father, the late Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip, who stepped back from public life completely at 96. I think that's fair enough. It's a decent innings.

And had done his bit. And her, you know, I was told that she's told her team, I'm gonna to start winding down a little bit at 80 in five years time. And then I want to step back completely at 90. Because she wants to be able to have a little bit more time at home with Tim Lawrence, her husband at Gatcombe and do it fingers crossed while she's still in good health. And the grandchildren who are nearby. And enjoy the grandchildren. And I know as a couple of her aides sort of mentioned, you

know, Tim Lawrence is very keen to try and spend more time with her as well. Because she is a workhorse. Not really fair on him. Now there was an interesting line about her being a workhorse about a little bit of criticism that she seemed to cast through people close to her

towards her nephew, Prince William. As you would say shade. Casting some shade. Yeah, it was interesting. So tell us about that line. As things stand, and I think it's just sort of the way it's always been in terms of protocol, investitures are only done by the king,

the princess royal and by Prince William. Most of them- We see them most Wednesdays at Windsor Castle. At Windsor Castle. There are still a few that are happening at Buckingham Palace amid the renovation, but a lot- I was going to say rubble then. Amid the renovation.

But a lot of them happen at Windsor. Anne lives in Gloucestershire at Gatcombe. But she's hot footing it over to Windsor quite a lot. Adelaide cottage. Which is very close to Windsor. She is doing the majority of messages. The King does them when he can. William does them when he can. Anne does most of them. And I've heard it from many people around the princess that she would love to see William do more. William, as we know, we've talked a lot about it,

is very protective of his family time. Oh, particularly in the last year as well. I mean, you can't fault him for the fact that it's, his wife's gone through this awful ordeal with the, and obviously three young kids. And it's poignant time to discuss it when there are so few of them doing that work and she's looking ahead to winding down at some stage. The other thing I was told was that that accident

that she had last year, and we say accident, I mean it was a terrible incident where no one really knows what happened, but she ended up in intensive care for several days with head injuries that doctors think were caused by a horse. She doesn't remember a thing, still can't remember it. Just remembers going out to feed the chickens. I was told that actually it was much, much worse than any of us knew at the time. And it took her much longer to recover from than anyone realised. Like she didn't feel herself for a very long time. Well, I think this is a bit of an issue, isn't it?

When we look at the late Pope and how the Vatican handled the news around his health, and then you look at how the news is handled at the palace. And that does seem to vary depending on which household is and which principal it is. But it is an interesting point that, you know, if you're downplaying things too much, people might assume that you're hiding something. Do you know what I thought was interesting?

And you know, an air ambulance was scrambled. Yeah. Such was that- Centered away. And they looked at the security lockdown because they found the Princess Royal and didn't know how the head injuries had been caused. And I think for a while they wondered

whether that was an intruder realized it couldn't have been because the security barrier hadn't been penetrated. They have security in place at her estate. But when it landed, she said, I'm going to go in. She was fine and enough to get in the car. Now, I saw her when she first came back to engagement. That was about two weeks later. It wasn't much time later. And she had a hat very low over her head, over her face,

and a huge kind of black, you know, a black eye and a lot of bruising. And it suddenly became clear that perhaps wasn't such a minor issue after all. And then we only found out in February, months later, when she went back to the hospital to thank the NHS staff for the doctor, that actually she'd been in intensive care. We weren't told that at the time.

Well, I suppose it's that balance, isn't it, between what should the public know? Right to medical privacy, they always say. Yeah, and the medical privacy of the individual, which is obviously important and paramount, and how they tread that line between the two. But it was classic Anne, wasn't it? I mean, and it prompted that tweet from William and Kate

saying, super trooper, great to see you back. Only Princess Anne would be in intensive care and then be out on maneuvers two weeks later with a black eye. Yeah, and she did say afterwards in a moment of reflection that it just brought everything, every day is sort of precious as a result. Well, she will be celebrating her birthday,

getting away from everyone and everything on her birthday. On VJ Day, on August 15th. Yeah, on VJ Day. Anyway, happy birthday, Anne. And just before we go to a break, it's been reported this week that Netflix is not expected to renew its contract with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex once it expires in September. It's been said to be worth $100 million. So let's remind ourselves what they have done in the last five years. Five shows with Love, Megan, a lifestyle series,

and with a second series due to come out. There was a Harry and Megan, which was that explosive 2022 series. That's one of the most successful things they've had Netflix, isn't it? One of the most watched documentaries that they've had on the platform. Yeah, that was their blockbuster because it was so revealing, wasn't it? We've had the Heart of Invictus, a documentary following athletes around... Very worthy, but less watched.

And Polo, which didn't really feature Prince Harry. Much less watched. Very much at all. So I suppose it's watched this space. It was always said to be a finite contract, whether that will be renewed or not. Maybe Netflix is waiting to see whether the second series of With Love, Megan does well.

I suspect Netflix think whatever they paid for that deal, and no one knows, I mean, it probably was worth multi-millions, but maybe not 100 million. I think Netflix will think whatever came after the Harry and Megan documentary, they will be delighted that it was Netflix that got them to spill the beans with so much revelatory content. I mean, there was, you know, it was the precursor to Harry's book Spare. And there was, you know, I remember watching it and we were watching it.

It was minute after minute. There was sort of a new a new news story in every five minutes over all those, you know, the two part series. It was the first time we'd heard Harry and Meghan, that personal since the Oprah interview, but it really didn't hold back. And what was extraordinary was seeing all that footage that they'd filmed on their phones and just handed over to the directors. Of course there's more isn't there? Because we've seen the kind of the dance in the labour suite when they were...

But I think Netflix will feel delighted just to have got that in the bag. Netflix are busy with another documentary, because The King is doing one with them as well. With Idris Elba. So maybe they'll get a Royal Warrant, Kate. Now, turning to something else that was quite a bit of fun this week. Cardboard crowns, mints and champion stallions. Must be nearly holiday time.

Well it must be. The King and Queen brought a bit of royal sparkle to Newmarket this week, which is the centre of flat racing and breeding in Suffolk. And despite the drizzle, I was there soaking it all in. How was it? I mean, you know how fast I volunteered to do that job. It was so up my street. There was a little horse emoji, I think. I loved it.

I mean, it was glorious actually. I before going to see the King and Queen at the National Stud, which is where, gosh, there's a breeding operation of British racing happens. I went out very early in the morning onto the Heath in Newmarket, which is where a lot of the horses that, you know,

live at the yards there, so many racing yards in Newmarket. They go out early morning and they gallop and you just look across this vast expanse and it is so spectacular. It was a wonderful way to start the day and then off I went to the National Studs. And I have to say there's a little bit about seeing the King and the Queen now that reminds me of doing horsey engagements with Queen Elizabeth. Yeah, they've really taken it on in a way that it wasn't clear that they would initially. They look happy around horses, you know,

particularly the Queen. It was lovely, it was very jolly. They were very keen to meet kind of people across the racing industry, not just trainers, but actually see people who are coming through some of the graduate programs from the British Racing School. There was a new scholarship launched at the Jockey Club. They got Jockey Club Patron Scholarship with

Charles and Camilla patrons and this is going to help people from diverse ethnic communities into racing because there is not enough frankly as it stands in racing. But it was lovely and they went to the national stud, they saw some of the stallions there, Stradivarius, the very, very famous, gorgeous chestnut stallion who behaved himself because he'd been quite grumpy in the morning

and they were all a bit worried about how he'd behave. And now he came and they fed him polo mints and it was just right. You were in your element. I was. There you go. I just loved it. There's more horsey action this week

at the Sandringham Flower Show, which is the annual one day show. Tracks about 20,000 visitors every year. And it's normally that kind of bookend to the end of the year, isn't it? Before they go off to Scotland for the holidays. And they were pulled along horse drawn carriage. Queen Victoria's Victoria, we were told,

which wasn't an error. That is what the carriage is called. It's a type of carriage called a Victoria. It's hilarious. With no doors on it, essentially. And they had they always seem to enjoy themselves. And last year there was a pie shaped like the king's head. Hilarious.

Which really tickled the Queen. This year there was a chap who was an ardent monarchist who was showing the Queen his tattoos all down his leg of the various ciphers of the late Queen, King, Queen Camilla and then the joint Charles and Camilla cipher. And so that he had been writing to Camilla for years and she writes back to him. Royal ink every which way pen pals and tats. There you go. Someone who's too young to have a tattoo, but is getting older and looked

very grown up was Prince George. He just is. He's looking more and more grown up. It was a lovely sweet picture that William and Kate released to mark his 12th birthday. By Josh Schinner, not one from the Princess. Not one from the Princess. He's become quite a favourite with... He has. He did the Christmas card, didn't he, in 2023. He's done an official portrait of Prince Louis and there was also a little vid video of the three siblings.

The video was very sweet, larking about. Larking about, holding hands. Lots of larking about with Louis and lifting Louis. Yeah it was lovely. After Louis and George kind of mocking each other at events earlier this year in public. It's nice to see them kind of having fun. The genuine affection there between the three of them, which is really sweet. What I like about those, the images that William and Kate

put out is they're quite relaxed. So the picture of George just sort of, you know, resting on the gate with his, you know, shirt on. Friendship bracelet on. Friendship bracelet, just very, you know, he's not, he's not done up in a suit and a tie. He's just, he's just him. He's just a 12 year old boy.

Yeah, well they've had criticism, haven't they, before of over dressing them like little miniature grownups. Yeah. But this was very relaxed. It's quite nice seeing them at home. Yeah. No, anyway, well he gets an official, he gets all these portraits and videos when he's 12.

No, and like no thanks, but George is going to be the future king, so it's a bit different, isn't it? Absolutely. We love to see it. And just before we go, a royal rallying cry to end on. The King sent his best wishes to the Lionesses after their Euro 2025 semi-final win in Geneva. They are now going through to the final on Sunday where who will be cheering them on? Prince William.

Prince William will be there cheering them on. As patron of the FA. Patron of the FA, ardent football fan. Will he take one or two of the kids? That's the big question. This is always what we always want to know. I hope so. It'd be nice to see Princess Charlotte there.

Wonderful to see her. Last year, or the year before, where she was perched on his knee and did a lovely little video message and William came in for a bit of flack for not going to the World Cup final in Australia. A long way to go. Long way to go but you know it'd been the men's final. Future King of Australia. Would he have got anyway. He will be there.

The message from the King was glorious and heartfelt. You could tell he'd been watching it. He said I hope you may rule to victory on Sunday. So what's the score going to be? Three one to England. That scoreline would work for me. That would be good. Bring us across. So whether you're flying a flag with William or hiding behind

the sofa when you watch on Sunday, if you're watching on Sunday, we will have to wait and see if it really is coming home. That's it for this week. And we'll be back next week for more royal debate and insight behind the palace walls. But until then, bye for now. As always, if you'd like to get in touch with us, you can email us at theroyalsatthetimes.co.uk. Bye, Roya. Bye, Kate. Music