The Royals with Roya and Kate - Royal Ascot’s double act as Roya meets the Osbornes - Jamie and Saffie

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Roya is at Royal Ascot where she was joined by a lively double act, trainer Jamie Osborne and his jockey daughter, rising star Saffie Osborne. From family business banter to riding for the royals, the Osbornes share their frank views, their humour and offer a glimpse into the highs and lows of the sport of Kings and Queens.Recorded 17th June 2025. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are we live? Yeah. We're live. Okay, we're going to start. Suck it to us, Roya. Welcome to the Royals. I'm Roynekar from The Sunday Times. Kate's away.

So this week I have a full and frank, and frankly rather humorous interview, with one of horse racing's great double axe. The trainer, Jamie Osborne, and his daughter, the jockey, Sapphire Osbourne. Jamie is a former National Hunt Jockey with the Royal Seal of Approval. He rode winners for the Queen Mother and was, it said, her favourite jockey. These days, he's a trainer with plenty of stories, enough patience to train me for the race course, and he also has a habit of winding up his daughter and everyone else while he's at it. And Saffy, well, she's one of the brightest young stars in flat racing,

who rode for the late Queen and is now making waves here and around the world with trailblazing rides in Dubai and America. Recorded during Royal Ascot, we talked about the winners, the losers. There are some punchy views on the King's New Irish trainer and lots about being one of sports great double acts. Well, I'm delighted to welcome. No, you're not. To welcome back to the Royals.

Quite a double act, and we haven't even started yet, but you'll see one, I mean. Jamie Osborne, lovely to see you back, back by popular demand on the Royals. I hear you want to. an award last year following this year actually yeah the episode of the podcast that I was in I can neither confirm or deny that was the reason anyway it's lovely to have you back Jamie Jamie for listeners who don't know him is a trainer based in Lamborn former national

hunt jockey former believe it or not times racing columnist if you go way back in the archives you find Jamie's columns I'm not as stupid as you think I am I don't think you're stupid I just didn't think they'd allow you to have one I thought it'd be too controversial he can't remember how many Grand Nationals he rode in, he says, but I can tell you that in one year, I better get this right, or you'll be in trouble. 996-97 season you won 131 races. Is that right? I don't know. Yes. I think it is. I have no idea.

But welcome, for the first time, the other half of the double act, Safi Osborne. Safi is one of the rising stars of flat racing. She was top jockey in the racing league for the last three years running. Thanks to meet. You sound like one of those parents now that's like they've only got anywhere because of me. It's awful. That's a really awful.

I'm still doing the introduction and off they go. Last year, Safi became the first female jockey to win a race at Maydan in Dubai on Uzo. I know it was trained by you, Jamie, but actually it was a fantastic ride. Welcome Safi Osborne. The double act, the Osbournes. I don't think I want to be known as the double act, to be honest.

Tough, you are. Hasn't there been a double act called the Osbournes before? There were you in their name. Now, you two have just been in America with your horse heart of honour. Yeah. And you rode in the Belmont and the Preakness. And for people who don't know, those are two of the Triple Crown American Classic races. We're here in this beautiful day, Royal Ascot.

What's the difference between America and coming to a meeting like Royal Ascot? It was raining in America. Apart from the weather, Jamie. I think different atmospheres, but the same sort of excitement. they do racing very differently in America but Royal Ascot is sort of the pinnacle of worldwide horse racing and it's where everyone wants to be and it's sort of I suppose the American equivalent

of the Triple Crown races so yeah very different atmospheres but yeah still pretty both are pretty electric Jamie coming to Royal Ascot I mean we talked a little bit about it last year but what makes this meeting so special? Well look at it I mean it's You know, since the revamp, I think it's the most spectacular venue. It's probably the most recognized meeting globally, anywhere.

It takes a very good horse to win here. Everybody wants to be here. You know, in spite of the fact that the prize money isn't actually as good as it should be, everybody wants to be here. And you see the number of people from around the world that want to buy horses to run here or bring horses from their own nation to be here. there's just something rather special about it.

And I think one of the reasons that it is so special is the Royal involvement. We talked a little bit about that last year. They get the king and queen are here every day this week. Today I'm quite excited about his horse and the fifth. Trained by Willie Mullins. Son of estimate. He's actually a horse that I galloped a lot when he was at Sir Michael Starrs.

And what's he like? He's a very talented horse. And I think this trip will bring out the best in him, hence why he's been sent to a jump trainer because that's probably where his strengths are going to lie. But he's a very classy horse and the key to this race is being able to settle and obviously stay.

It's over two and a half miles. And yeah, he's got the right temperament and the right attitude to do so and definitely the right jockey on top in line more. This is why we've got you on the podcast, Saffy. I love that Saffy's ridden the horse that's in the fifth. I think it's quite sad that the King of England feels that he needs to send it to the Republic of Ireland.

to have it very well trained. Well, he is the best job training, isn't it? No, but what does that say about his view of us? Jamie, or you could argue that it's historic and fantastic that we have an Irish trainer for the first time training for a rain. That's never happened before training for a rainy monarch. Last year, we had a little bit from you about what it was like riding for the Queen Mother. Of course, you rode for quite a few years towards the ends of your career.

Is that right? Yes, I was lucky enough to ride for Her Majesty of the Queen Mother. And we heard about what a character she was, and she did sound like quite a character. character. Saffi, I know that you rode for the late queen. I did. And it's, as a jockey, it's an unbelievably special feeling when you get to put on the royal colours. Can you, why? Why? What does it mean? Because, I suppose, as a British person, it's just, it's such an honour. And especially sort of, my grandparents never come racing, ever. And they came racing that day because it was such a,

special thing and I think any jockey riding will appreciate that I remember when Tom Markand won on the King's Horse here and it just just adds a lot of I don't know sentiment because I don't know

it's something about being sort of quintessence to be British What was the race and where are you? Oh it was um Your mother's Irish Okay thanks Hooray for Willie Mullins and the Irish Yes um it was

a pretty bog standard contest in Chepstow but it made it extra special because it was the Queen's coronation weekend yeah of course anniversary which made it extra special and yeah unfortunately I finished second which wasn't great but yeah no it was

it's just a real honour to put those colours on there's certain colours that you watch growing up sort of in racing the likes of godolphin Shad well, all these amazing huge owners, as well as the Queen, I think I remember sort of growing up and one of the first Royal Ascats that I really watched was Ryan Moore winning on estimates. Yeah. And it was just the most amazing thing to watch and her reaction was so incredible.

And the emotion was incredible. Yeah, amazing because a sort of a Queen's horse winning the Gold Cup at the Royal Meeting is so special. And I think it's just those are colours that I've watched growing up that have been so successful and so poignant in British racing, obviously, that, yeah, it was really special to be able to, yeah, put them on. Now, I get to see the two of you occasionally together at home at Lambourne

riding out, and behind the scenes, it's quite a fun dynamic most of the time. Can you talk a little bit about how important the relationship is between trainer and jockey and who gets their way? I kind of know the answer to this, but I'd like our listeners to hear

both of your perspectives on this. What it's like working with your own, children. Carry on, Seth. How much he likes to be sarcastic and tries to be funny. You sarcastic. We have a very good relationship because even when we decide we want to scream at each other or disagree on something.

I can confirm that occasionally happens. Two minutes later, it's very much, we don't really discuss that. We just kind of move on and the two minutes later is, are you, all good? Yeah, all good. and yeah we kind of move on from that but um when you when you're riding in the big races like at royal ascot obviously we've seen you in Dubai and more recently in in those huge races in America which they were is there an added dimension of pressure or pride riding for your father um I don't think so I feel completely relaxed riding for him I think

there's something to be said for riding horses no she's not going to get the sack no that's what I mean that's what I was about saying there's um there's something to be said for when you have a job there's always this added pressure of feeling like I need to I need to sort of prove that they've made the right decision in choosing me with dad I feel completely relaxed riding for him because I know that I'm not scared to make mistakes yeah does that make you a brave rider yeah it does and I think the jockey that rise the best is the one that rides with the most confidence and I think trainers that fill you with confidence are the best

because you're not scared to make those mistakes. If you do, you're very happy to come in and say sorry. I was watching an interview that Jamie did during, I think it was the preakness and he said, to be honest, I don't really tell her what to do or give her any tips because she does her own thing and she's usually right.

Is that fair? That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. I actually fell off my chair when I when I was in. That's not unique to you. I mean, anybody that I employ to ride a horse, if I need to intervene and tell them what to do, then I shouldn't have employed them. You know, I expect them to do the homework,

understand what's likely to happen, have every scenario covered. And, you know, as the trainer, I produce the horse to arrive as good as it can be on that day. I don't know how that race is going to run. I don't know those infinite number of little intricacies that are going to occur through that race that are going to influence their decisions.

So, you know, who am I? to tell them. You know, I remember riding. I mean, there was a direct correlation between the number of winners somebody would train in a year and the amount of instructions they would give you beforehand.

It was an inverse correlation. Like, the guys that were training a lot of winners employed you and let you get on with it. The ones that were not training a lot of winners would pin you down and threaten you. You had to do it this way and whatever. It's the biggest load of rubber. rubbish. You know, races, they are professionals. That's what they are paid to do. I tell them what I know

about a horse and it's up to them to then decide how to interpret there and how to ride it. And if I don't have belief in anyone that's riding my horse, I shouldn't be employing them. So it's irrelevant whether she's my daughter or not. Thankfully, she's not too bad at it. Not too bad is the Jamie. I mean, she's okay. He's better than not too bad, Jamie. That conversation having to sack her because she was rubbish would have been really dreadful.

Thankfully I've never had to have it. Not yet. I love this. Safi's got, Safi and Jamie Yerbaugh. We'll just pause briefly. We'll just pause and watch this race, and then we'll pick up. Frosted Dawn.

How can that win? No, for the fair. Paul Morennan. Paul Morn. Regional third. So Safi, yes. Last year when we asked Jamie about. When it was like way back in the day, being a jockey in the training,

Jamie basically sort of said there wasn't really much training. He didn't really do much. She just turned up at the races. That's kind of fair. It's quite different now, isn't it? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the kind of pretty much. Yeah.

Tell me about what it takes to get here to ask it in terms of mental and physical training. As you know, obviously, having ridden in a race, it's, you have, even to get your licence, have to pass a... Very underrated rider, Roya. Yeah, very under. We keep trying to persuade it to get her amateur licence out. Thinking about it. pushing for it. Still thinking about it.

You have to undergo a fairly physical fitness test, but I think not even that prepares you for how fit you need to be to ride racehorses. It's very physically demanding on certain areas of your body and you get a lot stronger the more you do it. I think now I'd hope that I'm at a point that no one would ever look at me and pick me out as a weak link. It's interesting. Well, you've always said, we've talked about it before, we've never really made much

and you've never really made much about being a female jockey because you've always said I don't really ride quite like a boy anyway but there aren't there still aren't it's still an industry and it's sort of sport dominated by men

both in terms of trainers and jockeys so being a very successful female jockey what are the challenges if there are any I think the one thing I would say about female jockeys is a lot of women take longer to get stronger and you can get a licence from the age of 16 and it takes girls quite a bit longer to get to get to that point where you're

physically as strong and I think that probably there's quite a few female jockeys that get written off before they get to that point and I suppose I was very lucky that um you had me I had dad to supply those rice to allow you to and I'm being perfectly honest you I do a lot of work in the gym still I'd run most days or cycle just like I used to do and not but the reality is is that you only get really to that really strong point when you're riding every day, riding two, three, four, five, six horses every day. And you've got three older brothers, none of whom I think have any interest in horses whatsoever. Thank God.

When Safi showed a great interest in ponies and then horses, and I know she was great in eventing before she started racing, were you delighted or slightly terrified? It was a mixture, really. I mean, firstly, she won the genetic lottery because her brother's a 6 foot 4, 6 foot 3 and 6 foot 2 and she's 5 foot 2. Are you going to add a half?

No, no, he keeps saying on 5 foot 2. I'm currently standing taller than him. Yes, I've got those girls shoes on. Not very tall high heels. I'm 5 foot 5. You're an athlete. You shouldn't be wearing those shoes. I'm 5 foot 5.

Okay. Don't shrink her, Jamie. Don't shrink me 3 inches. She's a fair bit shorter than her brothers. She is. Her mother is from a long line of very tall Irishman. Kerryman, and the boys have all taken after that side of the family, and she's taken after my side of the family. So if she'd wanted to be a jockey and she had the wrong mixture

of jeans, she'd have been completely unable to do it. So that was the first thing. And then I think growing up with three elder brothers, who our house is not... For the faint-hearted, I can confirm that that It wouldn't necessarily be the most PC upbringing. I can also confirm that that is true. She's very competitive. No. We said, it's competitive. Yeah, we say it as it is.

And so this accidental child, which we didn't mean to have, arrived. Can I just say, can I just say, I was born nine months the day after his first Royal Alaska winner since we're here. And it only won a short head. And oddly, the horse was called irony. And had it not won a short head, Safie would not. exist. Right. Well, thank goodness for you. Pat Sedri rode the horse. He was totally brilliant on it. So whatever the child was going to be, I wanted to call it Pat, because it was really down

to him. So she should really be Pat Osbourne. Well, I'm glad you're Safi. When you're training a horse, do you have jockeys in mind? I mean, do you know instinctively that Safi Osborne? Yes. I have no choice. And when you're training, when you have, you know, when you're at Royal Ascal, when you're at, you know, the Belmont or the preakness, is it extra special? Do you have to say that it is having her on board? I don't want to say this in front of her, but it's a... Wait, I think there's a rare compliment coming, Safi. No, it's not going to be a compliment. I just say that I think to breed a child who is good

at this job and I have total confidence in that my whole life's work is getting chucked out there onto a race course and I'm entrusting. somebody that I bred to actually to actually carry this whole thing through for me. Yeah, it's wonderful. Is there extra pressure knowing that? I think I... There was a lot of pressure on me when I started,

when I started giving her rides because clearly I don't own all these horses, other people own them, and I'm trying to promote her and initially, like every jockey, she wasn't very good. Did she get a lot of sort of nepo baby thrown at you? I don't really care.

You don't know what that means, Jamie? I do. It doesn't really... I've heard of that word. It doesn't really bother me because I know how hard I work and I know that I know I'm good enough

and I think if I was feeling substandard and I felt like I was getting these opportunities not because I was good enough and just because he was my dad I think I might feel like that but I don't I get a lot of satisfaction out of riding dad winners and even sort of the UA Derby this year

in Maydan he legged me up and he patted me on the leg as I got up and it I don't know it was something there was something really you looked terrified was it quite reassuring no it was I wasn't terrified I was just I wasn't terrified in any way it was just the I know how hard it is to get horses to meetings like that yeah meetings like the royal meeting the it makes it so extra special when you're when you're there yeah and um for me obviously like I've been very lucky to ride good winners for lots of different people and um but for me riding big winners for dad is just so extra special because i've seen everything that's gone into it for the last 23 years yeah and um i know how hard it is i know how hard

it is 23 yes i'm 23 and um i know how hard it is to come across a good horse like it you there's there's certain parts of it that are luck is there a special particular horse of your dance that you've loved riding more than any others would it be uzo or uzo it was very special. I think for me a horse called Raising Sand. He wasn't necessarily the best. Yeah. He wasn't necessarily the best, but I think he won five heritage handicaps, mainly at Ascot. He was your first big winner, was me? He was my first big winner. He was an Ascot specialist and Ascot somewhere that I've been coming, I used to sneak out of schools sort of to come on the Tuesday and Friday. I bet you encouraged that. I think it was quite funny. I remember when

the first Royal Ascot, a winner of dads that I witnessed was a horse called Defrock in the Britannia. and I went into school on the Friday morning and my house mistress called me in and she said, Safi, I really liked your dress on the telly yesterday. Where the hell were you? After, there was the pictures of him watching it and I'm behind him sort of jumping up and down.

So he didn't even try and pretend you were somewhere else. We have a chance of winning the Britannia again on Thursday. So we're at the witch horse. Is that Fingle-Roeba? You both love that horse. I think on the television coverage, of that day, there is a shot of Safi about this big

when we won it before we'd defrocked. What do we like be 10 years ago? No, it was 27, no, longer. 2015? Yeah, so it's 10, let's call it 9 or 10 years ago. It'd be really fantastic if we did win this race on Thursday if they could cut those two things together because on the television there's a picture of me

jumping down like a lunatic and this little child scyving off school in a silly hat sort of jumping and bashing their thing. Oh, we're going to keep our fingers crossed. It would be quite funny to compare those two if we were lucky enough to win this race on Thursday. How many runners do you have this week? Seven.

And is Safi riding all of them? No. I've jocched her off a couple. No, no, I've got there. That's a lot. I've got other rides. I've got other rides. Jamie's very.

Jamie's version is he's jockey off. No, that's not true. The truth is she's riding for other people. No, she is riding for other people. But of my seven runners, there's two races where I've got two in the same race. Right. So obviously, clearly, she's good, but she can't ride them both.

She's not like it. She's not that good. No, me, I would have picked wrong. Who gets the pick of that? You or your dad? I think it was, both those races were, I think one of them was a fairly obvious choice, which one I'd pick in the Hunk Cup tomorrow. Right.

And the other one, I was slightly on the fence about both. But I think that's the other added bonus of, I know these horses so well. I ride them in the majority of their work or ride in the work with them. So I get to see them both a lot. What would having an ask-it-winner mean to you, Safi? I know that it's still alluded to you. it's only a matter of time you have a long career ahead of you

what would an ascot winner mean I should hurry up it might not be down all the jockeys in the wearing room keep taking the Mickey out of me because they always keep joking that my strike rate askad is phenomenal but then they go no staff it this is Royal Ascot

your strike rate of Royal Ascotts is really bad so I haven't had a Royal Ascot winner yet but um 2025 it's your year it's the year I hope but um it would be unbelievably special um

I think sort of group one or any handicap at this meeting equally means as much. It's, yeah, just the most... I suppose every European jockey, probably even sort of jockey worldwide dreams of riding Royal Ascot winners

and it's where you want to be. When you know you're riding in front of a crowd that includes the King and Queen, does that make any difference to when you're riding? I mean, are you aware of that? It's probably not something I'm thinking about when I'm getting on the horse. Unless it's owned by the King and Queen.

Yeah, unless I've stood with him in the brain. Ooh, His Majesty's watching me. I'm looking up to the Royal Box checking if they're watching me. No, it's obviously not something. But I think when you look back on it, it's obviously something that's incredibly special. Yeah, and I think just the whole atmosphere around this meeting, like when you come back in and you see the crowds.

I think Ascot some days on a normal sort of on Royal Ascotts Trial's Day, for example, on a Wednesday, it kind of feels like sort of, it feels very empty. and then you get to the royal meeting and it's absolutely packed full of people and you're sort of cantering down to the start and you look, because if you glance over to the grounds and you can't see any part of the floor,

it's just hats and, yeah, it's a very special place and there's just a really magical feeling about it. Do you get to have a proper, like, do you get to have a very good time after you finish riding each day? Saturday night. Saturday night, okay, it's all about Saturday night. It's all about Saturday night.

Okay, well listen, it's an absolute joy to have you back Jamie Osbourne It's an absolutely Yes it is Back by Poplar Good It's a joy to have you

With us for the first time I hope you'll join us again I hope 2025 is your year For your first I've got confidence I do I love occasionally riding out with you So can we write that again soon please

Definitely You actually talk better than I thought you would Actually Not bad Good luck with all your runners Jamie Thank you very much Congratulations on your award Winning podcast

Thank you James Nice to be a very small part A bit lawyer And I can't wait for you to have your amateur licence Will you help me? Yes, obviously. Roy, you're not as bad as you think you are. I think you could do it.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think you have enough talent in the saddle that you could get an amateur license and ride here in one of the ladies' races in the Royal Colors. I think that would be magnificent.

Listeners and viewers of the Royals, that is the challenge for next year. We will see. Thank you both so much for joining us and have a great rest of the week. Good luck. Thank you. That's just you.

Well, big thanks to Jamie and Safi Osbourne and to Royal Ascot for giving us the space to record that in the Queen and Enclosure. Do check out the video on our YouTube feed and let us know your views and any questions too at the Royals at the times.com.uk. That's all from me, Roy and Eka. next time, Kate will be bringing you another summer special. Bye for now.