The Royals with Roya and Kate - The King, the Queen and the Pope (and Harry and Meghan too!)

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

The Pope has wished the King and Queen a happy 20th wedding anniversary in a private meeting at the Vatican. Charles and Camilla, who were both divorcees when they married in 2005, are said to be “delighted” to have had a private 20-minute meeting with Pope Francis. King Charles also became the first British monarch to address the Italian parliament. It has been a busy day for our royal correspondents, but Roya still found time to listen to the new podcast from the Duchess of Sussex. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Music Welcome to The Royals with Roya and Kate from Italy. Here we are in Rome for the four-day state visit of the King and Queen. Italy. Here we are in Rome for the four-day state visit of the King and Queen. It's been a busy one and there have been a few surprises. There have been a few twists and turns. So all week, Kate, we knew that the state visit to the Vatican had been postponed, but I think as soon as we all saw the Pope discharged from hospital the week before last, making that appearance last Sunday, that we've all been thinking, will he be well enough to see the King and

Queen? That's right. That's kind of been, well, he appeared, didn't he, on Sunday? Yeah. And it was a big public engagement. He came out and met the crowds, albeit briefly. But from that moment on, the King and Queen were in Rome within 24 hours pretty much of that appearance and it did seem that the writing was on the

cards. There was a briefing on Monday before the King and Queen arrived, all the journalists were gathered, we had the UK ambassador to Italy gave a briefing about what the state visit was they hoped to achieve with it. And the palace were talking as well. And there was lots of questions about whether they would find time to have a private meeting with the Pope. And the guidance was very much like, well, we'll see.

It was quite noncommittal wasn't it? We'll see what happens. No, not currently planned, which is Buckingham Palace Code for it might happen. And I think here you've got Buckingham Palace, often very private until something happens. They weren't sure they couldn't brief that something would happen, completely reliant on the Pope's health. So they were in the hands of the Vatican, so couldn't really release

something. But then it broke tonight that the Vatican had released this information about the visit. It was sort of their story to tell, wasn't it? Yes, it was. But I think it didn't come as an enormous surprise to all of us who sort of thought that if there was a window to see the Pope, Charles and Camilla would do everything they could to try and see the Pope before they moved on to Ravenna. And Palisades have been working behind the scenes to make this happen. Obviously, the King and Queen really wanted it to happen. We were told tonight they were delighted that they were able to have this private 20-minute meeting with the Pope. And I think even in the briefings we had in London

weeks ago, they were saying they were in daily contact with the Vatican to try to establish how well the Pope was. We heard that the King had essentially written, had made his thoughts and prayers for the Pope for his recovery. So it was something that obviously Charles and Camilla really wanted to happen. You'll remember that 20 years ago, their wedding day was moved back 24 hours because Charles had to come to Rome to attend the funeral of Pope John Paul II. And at that stage, Charles was Prince Charles and he was representing his mother at the funeral. But they had to shift their whole wedding date. So it was quite fitting actually that they were able to then spend their 20th wedding anniversary meeting the Pope, which at one stage, certainly last week, looked very unlikely.

And now Bucky and Paris are saying that this doesn't mean that a state visit to the Holy See is ruled out. That's right. So it could be, there could be this postponed trip, because there was a full itinerary, wasn't there, which was all canned because of the Pope was ill. But that could now still be back on the table, providing the Pope recovers and is able to do that at some point down the line. We're told that tomorrow morning, the Vatican is going to release a still image, so no video, but a picture of the meeting that happened behind closed doors effectively. So that has become the sort of pivotal moment,

I think, of this state visit. But before this news broke tonight, at the 11th hour visit between Charles, Camilla, and the Pope, we'd been reflecting on an extraordinary royal week, and it's been quite the royal week, hasn't it? There's been so much news, not just the state visit here. Every week feels like that at the moment.

State visit with Charles and Camilla here, Harry in court over in the UK, Megan's new podcast, all of that. And we took to the rooftops of Rome, overlooking the Ciaranale Palace as the state banquet was going on to reflect on what's been quite a Royal Week. Roya, how are you? to reflect on what's been quite a whirlwind. Roya, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Very happy to be in Rome on this state visit. Nice to get out and about. Indeed, but we are not here on our holidays. We are here for work and work is here because the King and Queen are here. Why are they here and why is it so important? and Queen are here. Why are they here and why is it so important? Well, this being the first state visit by the King and Queen since the coronation,

there's all sorts of things going on I think with this visit. There's a really important agenda in terms of what the government want to achieve. There's a very important agenda of what the King and Queen, the deployment of soft power, which we've talked about a lot. Yeah. And then of course, we're in Rome, a romantic city. When in Rome. It is their 20th wedding anniversary as we speak today. And there's been an awful lot of that on the menu. So I think it's important on all those fronts. And there's been a lot going on. We've had the King, we've had a lot from the King, haven't we? We've had a lot from ambassadors. David Lammy is here with them. David Lammy, your fave. Never want to miss a soft power deployment mission. No. Busy few days. It has been a very busy few days and we're looking out now you

probably hear the the noises of Rome around us. We can see across Rome over to the Vatican and we're in day three, only one more day to go, but it's been it's been pretty busy. Should we start with today and go backwards? Yes, it's been a very full-on busy day. 23rd wedding anniversary. Charles became the first British monarch to address both Houses of Parliament in a joint sitting

with a very important speech where he packed a lot in, didn't he? Everything- He certainly did, 22-minute speech. Made a little bit longer because everyone was clapping so much and you know spontaneous standing ovation halfway through which I thought was rather interesting. He got a lot in there, he got, there's a lot about ties between Italy and the UK, cultural ties, historic ties, economic ties, the fact that we stand with Italy in our solidarity with Ukraine.

Bit of a joke. There's a bit of a joke. He thanked the Romans because it was their idea to put the king's head on coins. Yes. So he said thanks for that. Quite like that. He talked about the romance of the city and how touching it was to be there with the Queen on their 20th wedding anniversary.

But all of that tied up is really goes to the very heart of what they're trying to achieve on this trip, which is what Kate? Well, he said, didn't he, that he had one mission essentially for this trip, and that was to strengthen the ties between the two countries. Now in a post-Brexit world, he talked about both countries being European, made a bit of a thing of that. He talked about shared interests when it came to supporting Ukraine. He talked about shared culture, shared defense. There was a reference to the Prince of Wales flagship. The carrier ship, yeah.

Aircraft carrier, which of course is going out to the Mediterranean to take part in a defense exercise alongside the Italian Navy. And we've seen that tie in a week. We've seen the fly past with the red arrows from the RAF and their Italian counterpart over here flying through the skies over Rome. We've seen even military bands, so the Welsh Guards band was playing alongside an Italian military band outside the Coliseum. The symbolism

of this trip couldn't be clearer, could it? It's all about defence. It's all about let's stay together. Coasing up to our European friends in a post-Brexit landscape isn't it? And with you know threats near to our shores essentially so it's interesting this morning wasn't it when he met Prime Minister Georgia Maloney? Yes. What did you make of that? Well they had a real love in it was actually his first official meeting with her. That's right. And he arrived at the amazing Villa Doria,

which is not her residence, it's not her checkers, but it's just somewhere she gets to host people. It was rather magnificent, sort of ceremonial welcome with all the concavallary there. Then they had a lovely wander around the gardens. There was a lot of laughter. There was a lot of chatting, a lot of kind of shared interests in terms of gardens,

architecture, all of that. She's Italy's first female Prime Minister and she's normally quite tactile and I think there was the genuine affection seemed to be between the pair of them. Great shots of them laughing. But what was interesting is we had a briefing with the ambassador here, didn't we, the other day, Ed Llewellyn. Right at the start of the week. Right at the start of the week and he came and he had a little chat to us and he said, what the King and Queen will do during this visit is intangible, but priceless. And I think we've seen that play out

to the last couple of days with, you know, Charles meeting Georgia Maloney today, both of them meeting the president Mattarelli yesterday. And his daughter. And his daughter, all of that. And I think Charles today in Parliament, as well as mentioning all those things you just touched on, he reminded Parliament and Italy

how long the relationship goes back, this being his 18th visit here. So it was very much like, you know, we've been friends for a very long time. Yes. This is, you know, I'm here again as King and with Camilla as Queen. Yeah, and echoes to a lot of the chat that he had or the speech that he gave in Germany as well,

this idea that long friendships, we've seen each other through good times and bad, really kind of reinforcing that idea that we're in it for the long haul. Yes, yes I do. Now tonight, another big night, nothing says happy 20th wedding hour, I see darling like going to a state banquet, Kendall and Jennifer too, not quite as the King says himself tonight and it's happening just there at the Kirinalli, just over yonder, just over yonder they'll be arriving any minute now and again it's another big set piece what's the aim of a state banquet Kate? Well this is a bit more fun, this is the kind of glitz and glamour of it. We know Andrea Bocelli is going to be there and it's a chance for the

King to make a more light-hearted speech to the one that he gave, a bit more serious in Parliament today and I think he'll draw on, well we know we've had a kind of briefing haven't we of what he's going to say which is that he's going to again make the joke about the candlelit dinner for two, not quite, and talk about the you know the ties that bind essentially the fact that they were together the unity between the two countries, make a few gags, always a few jokes and especially at the state banquet is a chance for a bit more of a light light-hearted touch I think bit more fun. He's even got Monty Python in there. He's got Monty Python in there. He talks about that great Monty Python sketch about what

do the Romans ever do for us? Oh, well, they built the roads and they did this and that. Oh, yeah, but apart from that, what do the Romans ever do for us? And he says he doesn't agree with that. He thinks that the Romans have been marvelous, but he says that the Italians have actually gone further than the Romans in that they touch every part of the British Isles, you know, we have big kind of Italian community, strong community in the UK. It's reversed over here as well, particularly with tourism,

lots of Brits coming over here for holidays. Yes. And it's just reminding everybody, you know, our defense powers aligned, you know, our defence, our defence powers aligned, you know, we're neighbours, they'll be talking about trade, how we trade together. And all of all going on in the background. We know that David Lammy is having lots of different bilateral meetings off the back of all these sort of big set pieces behind the scenes.

David Lammy is meeting his counterpart and having conversations about trade, about all sorts of other things, about defence. So he's here with them every sort of step of the way. We saw him at the reception last night. And he was there at the Parliament today, of course. Yes, it's almost like the King and Queen and the kind of, the figureheads doing some really important in front of the scenes work and then David Lammy behind the scenes is trying to kind of manoeuvre and do the kind of work on behalf of the government, with the the government with our counterparts here. I think that's it isn't it? It's the royal family, that soft diplomacy, that soft power that you talk about greasing the wheels of this bigger machine of military might

of how we're going to work together and those cogs and behind the scene those those cogs are turning more smoothly perhaps because of the visit and it's not just about nice words at state banquets and fly pass and things like that. There's a very serious element to it. And a lot of the negotiations in the months preceding the visit have gone on as to what each country wants to achieve from the visit.

I thought it was really interesting actually in his speech today that he didn't put his punches, Charles, when it came to the environment. Now this is par for the course with Charles. We know he talks a lot about the environment. As he says himself, he's been banging on about it for decades. Yeah.

But Giorgio Maloney, of course, has been a little bit skeptical on that front when it comes to European targets for climate change and things like that. So I wondered whether that was him just sort of laying down getting his points across that he would like to get across on the environment side of things. What did you think? Well, I wonder whether that was him just sort of laying down, getting his points across that he would like to get across on the environment side of things. What did you think? Well, I'd be intrigued to know if that came up in the private conversation because, of course,

we know everything that looks sort of very fun and jolly in front of the cameras. Behind the cameras, we don't always hear exactly what's been said. There wasn't a readout actually either about normally we have the kind of fond words exchanged, but from the outside it did look like they were getting on very well. Yes and and he mentioned today in the speech and he mentions tonight as well he's looking forward to going to they're both going to Ravenna tomorrow and tomorrow is going to be and so are we or very early start on the on the train to Ravenna tomorrow morning at dawn. Tomorrow is going to be very much about cultural ties

the history of that area. We're going to see Dante's tomb, there's going to be a visit to the Byron Museum, of course Byron spent a lot of time here, rogue that he was, very inspired by Ravenna. And there's going to be a lot of focus on traditional cuisine from there, and that will be the last day of the trip. I think that will be very, lots of great pictures there, maybe a bit of a lighter feel. What do you think? I think, yeah yeah ending on a bit of a high a more kind of we talk we've been told there's going to be food stalls there's

going to be whiskey and parmesan pairings so I think it's only our duty to try that one out. We'll report back listeners. There's also going to be a different element tomorrow I think in terms of the But there's also going to be a different element tomorrow, I think, in terms of the touching on the Second World War and us and Italy being allies and a reference to, you know, historic events. So they'll talk about how the Canadian troops came in to liberate Ravenna during the war. And he mentioned that speech today, didn't he, as King of Canada? That's going to be an important moment for him tomorrow. And King of Canada, of course, is is an important role particularly amid Trump's trade tariffs at the moment and him being seen

to stand up for Canada. And Canadian and British flags have flown in Ravenna for for a long time now and I think that's you know testament to that. He'll talk to that relationship as well so it's not just the kind of connection with Italy he'll be talking about Canada, he'll be meeting some Canadian veterans and I think that'll play into what he's here to achieve. Now this trip as we know, because we talked about it last week, has come off the back of a bit of a health scare for the King because last week of course we were told, very late one evening, that he had had side effects from some cancer treatment and had gone to hospital, had spent a bit of time there to recover, then he come back and there

was discussion about would the state visit go ahead, we were told it would, but I think almost in a way the postponement of the Vatican element of it has probably helped a little bit in terms of spreading out engagements over a few days and making the agenda slightly less heavy, although there's 17 engagements I think in total it's been quite full-on. Yeah. How do you think he's looking, how do you think he's coping with it, how do you think they're managing it given that... His lips look quite sore and we've been told that he had treatment at the weekend so that he could then come out, yeah, so that he could come out here and do that week

without having it the week interrupted by his sort of weekly treatment. So I wonder if having two courses close together, you know, was difficult for him, but he looks jolly in himself, I have to say. He seems like he's on good form. There, you know, he stood on his feet, like I say, for 22 minutes in that chamber today and didn't seem to tire at all. And that is quite an ordeal for anybody

to deliver a speech like that in those circumstances during a very busy day. He'll be on his feet again tonight at the state banquet and I think in and of himself he looks jolly, he looks like he's on good form but you can see he's tired. I think you mentioned it last time we spoke. Yeah, I mean he last night at a reception with members of the sort of British and Italian community here. And again, he, you know, he definitely was taking time to make sure he spoke to as many of the 150 guests as he could. But at the end of a long day, he did look a little bit tired. But I suppose 76 year olds, we've talked about this going through cancer treatment every single week with quite a heavy workload and not really making any sort of extra space. That's to be expected.

Yeah. Well, he's got something to look forward to at the end of the day because Camilla says that she's going to be presenting him with a personal gift. She said they had an afternoon catch up, which seems very formal way of saying she was able to finally have a chat with him because on this day of all days, despite it being their anniversary, they split up, didn't they? So he went off to see Maloney. she went to see her school and talk about their literacy projects and meet some of the children and it was only later they came together at the Parliament. The lovely thing we've heard from Camilla today is that Camilla has been talking to the UK media with her and we've been asking her what's the secret to the marriage and you

know the long enduring marriage, that's a relationship that's gone on for much longer than the 20 years of marriage. And she's given some quite interesting answers hasn't she? She said... What's the secret did she say? Laughter, give and take. Friendship. Friendship. And you know and also she sort of made a joke about the fact that they're always doing this. We are separating ourselves.

We're doing our wedding anniversary and we're doing lots of engagements. She did say it'd be nice to have a day off, but that was never gonna happen. That's what she said. They're gonna sort of mark their wedding anniversary properly when they get back. But she has bought him a present, hasn't she?

Yeah. What is the 20th anniversary in tangible stuff? Yeah, it's a China anniversary, isn't it? When you get to 20 years. So she says she's bought him some China, but she didn't say what. Maybe it's a mug that says best king ever or something. Friendship forever.

That's what, nothing is a lovey-dovey like a China mug that says best king ever, EVA. I reckon that's definitely what she's got him. If destroyed is still true. I really hope so. But we know that the Royal Family like to get each other silly presents so maybe it is something kind of fun and lighthearted like that. She couldn't really tell the British newspapers when she was earlier on because we probably would have given the game away and ruined the surprise for him. When they get back home they are going up to Burkhall, which is what their friends always

say is the residence, the home, and they've got a few, that they feel is most like their marital home together. They both absolutely love Burkhall up at Balmoral. So I think possibly there as well, they'll put down tools and retreat and really reflect on 20 years of marriage. Well, I think a really good gift back to Camilla, and it was proposed to her today, would be for the King perhaps to slow down a little bit, take it easy and her response was dream on. Dream on. Dream on. She knows, I mean I think that's a thing to a good relationship as well isn't it? She knows. Know the limits. Choose your battles wisely. Exactly. And there's

just some she's not going to win like that one. wisely. Exactly. And there's just some she's not going to win like that one. Now, this state visit has actually come after what was quite a tricky end to the week last week for the King, because the King unexpectedly was drawn into the scandal around Prince Andrew, the alleged Chinese spy with new stuff that came out in this tribunal last week. And there was a suggestion in some of the witness statements and stood up that the King had actually been more involved than we knew. So it was the front pages and I did make all the front pages.

And dragged into. So remind us Kate about Prince Andrew, the alleged Chinese spy, Yang Tenbo, and how the king was embroiled. There's a man called Yang Tenbo who's a Chinese businessman who's an alleged Chinese spy. The British government decided to ban him from coming to the UK on the grounds of national security. When he tried to appeal that decision, part of his reference for wanting to stay is, I'm an upstanding member of the community and I did all this work with the Duke of York. So Duke of York,

you know, alleged Chinese spy, story went nuts at the end of last year and so we move on. At the time Buckingham Palace sought to do their very best to distance the King from the Duke of York and the Chinese spy and no sort of knowledge. By the fact that as we revealed, the alleged Chinese spy had been into Buckingham Palace twice, very much at the heart of Andrew's work. He was involved with Pitchett Palace. He had started a Chinese arm of Pitchett Palace.

It was not great PR for the King. He was so cross about it that Andrew was advised, perhaps don't come to Christmas dinner. So it was a huge thing. And now we've been appealing to try to have some of these documents that were previously not made public, made public, and they have been revealed. And among them are a witness statement

by a man called Dominic Hampshire, who is Prince Andrew's aide for a long time, actually was an equator to the Duke of Kent a long time ago, and who has been involved in a lot of these business deals with Yang Teng Bo, he decided to deliver a witness statement in support of Yang Teng Bo trying to overturn his ban to get into Britain. And in doing so, he says that the King has held a meeting with Andrew to discuss the Eurasia Fund. Now, this is part of a business agreement that was associated with Yang Teng Bo, that the meeting wasn't about, you know, it wasn't a meeting between the King and Andrew about an alleged Chinese spy.

It was about the fund and how Andrew was going to fund his lifestyle. This is all the conversation last year because the King wanted to cut him off and indeed did cut him off financially, wanted to find out where he was going to get his money from. The keeper of the privy purse was involved because they didn't want Andrew to get his money from dodgy sources which would have led them into difficult waters PR wise and yet here we are, you know, and it's Andrew again and coming just as they start the state visit here. It wasn't really the headlines they wanted. It forced a response from the palace, didn't it, to sort of say on the record, well, yes, he did hold these meetings with his brother, but these meetings

were really just to discuss how he might, you know, what opportunities he might explore. There was no mention of Yang Tenbo. Maybe the Eurasia Fund was mentioned. Could have been mentioned. But we weren't talking about your friendship with the alleged spy. But it brought him closer to the actual, you know, it brought him closer to the matter than Buckingham Palace has ever wanted to, because they'd tried to put him at a real

arms length from this when it broke last year. And I think you're right to say that, I think, on the record statement, because people listening outside of this weird world of royal reporting might think, well, yeah, what's wrong with that? But actually, an on the record statement on something like that is quite rare. You know, the palace sort of moves in mysterious ways,

and they might guide, or they might say something off the record. But for them to come out and say something on the record, I think is pretty strong, and it shows you how worked up they were about all this. And they're right to be, frankly. It feels like there might be more to come out from that. I mean, every time there's a new challenge

of court documents, more things come out. So watch this space on that, I think. But it hasn't been the only tricky thing for the King this week, has it, Kate? No, and I do feel sorry for the King. Here he is, he's had cancer treatment. He's out here doing his best, delivering all these speeches,

and we just discussed all the things that are going on. But apart from the Andrew, there's the other kind of the other Duke of Hazard as he once told to me. The spare, the other spare. The other spare Prince Harry who is back in London attending a court appeal. First day he appeared in court was the first day of the full day of the state visit. Yeah. So to remind listeners this is the long-running legal battle that Prince Harry has had with the Home Office. He's trying to overturn the decision by the Home Office and Ravec that his security, his taxpayer funded security should be downgraded and he doesn't get it automatically around the clock

when he comes and he gets a sort of bespoke service. He argues that the threat level to him is the same as the sovereign son, as the sovereign son who's He's still the king's son, yep. Served in Afghanistan two tours. So there was a latest round of this. This is the final throw of the dice as it's being described because in February he lost the High Court. The High Court ruled against him.

Yeah, last February, yeah. It was lawful for that decision to be made by Ravik and the Home Office. He's won permission to appeal, so we're hearing two by Ravik in the Home Office. He's won the mission to appeal, so we're hearing two days now. Today was the second day. It means so much to him, he's actually flown over for it, even though he's not sort of speaking. No reason for him to, he's not in this, he's not on the stand, he's obviously submitted witness statements. But the optics of that, of him flying over from America, he didn't see his father.

He arrived in the UK before his father came to Italy. There was an overlap. So there could have been a meeting, but there wasn't. There wasn't. And I suppose people could argue if a meeting, if he'd wanted a meeting, he could have come a couple of days earlier. Who knows what his schedule is.

But it's made a lot of headlines. It's made a lot of coverage while the king is over here with the queen on an official business. Traditionally, the protocol normally is that other members of the royal family go dark, so to speak, when someone's overseas. I guess Harry would argue... Especially on such an important visit. Yeah, Harry would argue he doesn't set the court dates and he's no longer an official

working royal. But it's that sort of friction, isn't it, with what's going on over there, what's going over here, and right at the heart of it, Harry's security, which as we friction, isn't it, with what's going on over there, what's going over here and right at the heart of it, Harry's security, which as we know, we talked about, he had been very keen for the king to try and intervene on that judicial process and the king won't do it. Yeah, well that's a thing. This is a case where you would think, this is Harry in his issue with the Home Office

saying, look, you've got the law wrong, you know, I should be allowed states to have sponsored security and My risk hasn't changed. That's one thing. But he has a bit like Andrew, he's dragged the king into it, because he has made it quite clear that he thought the king should have intervened to give him that protection that he should have had a say and said, Harry deserves that protection. The king didn't do that. And people close to him said he couldn't possibly get the judicial process. Yeah, that it's not his job to do that. And it's not, you know, he shouldn't be, how can

he possibly be interfering with royal security when it's something to do with the Home Office and all that sort of stuff. So he's dragged the King into it, you know, regardless of that. And I just think these state visits, you know, they, it's not just here for kind of shake a few hands, a grip and grin, say a few nice words. you know, they, it's not just here for kind of shake a few hands, the grip and grin, say a few nice words. I think it's, there's so much riding on these visits from a British government point of view, from a constitutional element, that fact that he's, the king has had to deal with that going on back at home must be deeply aggravating that it's happened now. And he's suing the King's government in his majesty's courts

and has dragged the King into it in another way by saying he should have and could have intervened. And him coming to the UK when he did this week, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, it's reminded everyone that he hasn't seen his father since last February when Charles announced, revealed he had cancer. Harry of course made that sort of 24-hour dash back to the UK and saw him, but he has not seen

his father who is 76 who has cancer since last February. There he is in the UK, here's the king. He did want to see him when he came last May for the Invictus Games, but he was told that... For one reason or another it didn't happen. You know, the king's diary was full. Yeah anyway it's on it rumbles. The dukes, the spares continuing to be a headache. Continuing to be a headache. In Charles' reign. Yeah. And I love the fact that they call him Carlo here. Carlo. Carlo. I think we should just take that up in Britain. We'll take it back with us. And finally Kate, we mentioned briefly last week that we were going to be facing some stiff I think we should just take that up in Britain. I think that would be good. We'll take it back with us.

And finally, Kate, we mentioned briefly last week that we were gonna be facing some stiff competition and some new competition in the Royal Podcast sphere. Quaking in your boots, were? Well, we got our first taste of it this week with Meghan's new podcast, Confessions of a Female Founder. Have you listened to any of it, Kate? I've listened to some snippets.

I haven't listened to the whole thing. Well I listened to the whole episode. I had my hair to wash and I had my all my work to do. Our producer is chuckling. You are here to tell the tale. I did listen to all of it. So that I could talk to you in the know Kate. As you were washing your hair I could speak to you in the know, Kate, as you were washing your hair, I could speak to you in the know about listening to all 40 minutes of that first episode. 40 long minutes. Well, she did an interview with Whitney Wolf-Hird, who's the co-founder of Tinder and the founder of Bumble.

A big deal. Very successful dating apps. Very rich woman. She's a billionaire, billionaire friend of Meghan's. And it was all about, supposedly all about sort of how you set up your business, but actually it went off tangent and off piece and it was about family life, the pressures of being a working mother, the pressures you feel. Megan talked about the pressures she felt launching

as ever her new range. Whitney talked about how they first met. There were a few interesting revelations. Megan revealed she had suffered from preeclampsia after she had one of her children. Postpartum pre-eclampsia. And so had Whitney. So they talked about that. There was quite a lot of Whitney saying you are the most scrutinized woman in the world. How do you do it? Well done. How have you survived? Aren't you marvelous? Yes, I'm marvelous. Aren't you marvelous? Yes, I'm marvelous. I would have liked a bit more content to lure me into actually. Was there much more content in it other than them blowing a lot of smoke in each other's direction? Well, I think if you were wanting to start a business, would it have given you any helpful

tips? I don't think so. But I don't. My feeling is possibly that perhaps this is not what that podcast is about. What is it about? Kate? You know, the one thing I do think she's learned from archetypes, the last podcast series for Spotify, of course Spotify cancelled that deal, although archetypes did very well, it drew in major listeners. I think she has read a lot of the stuff around that and a lot of people critiqued that saying we heard too much from Meghan and not enough from the guest. You do hear a lot more from Whitney on this. But, yeah, I've read that she's quite a good interviewer in it.

Confessions of a female founder. It was really, I felt it was really more about each of them saying we've had a hard time, things have been tough. Well done. You've got to keep going. Yeah, it's quite inspirational, I suppose, but in terms of kind of tangible tips, perhaps not so much. Not so much tangible tips,

more about their life experience. Right. But again, I thought the timing of that was interesting. The first episode dropped yesterday, first day of the state visit. Although that would have been planned for a long time in her defense. Yes, it would have been planned for a long time,

but again, it's been a right royal week of it, until home time. Well, it's been lovely talking to you in Rome Kate. Look at this view I mean we've seen the sun go down here haven't we while we've been chatting. Probably time to go and have a glass of something. There'll be some champagne, some Prosecco, some Chianti being uncorked over there at the Chironalle. Yeah well I'll get to see what's on the menu soon I think. Should we hot-foot it over there so we can catch a bit of tiramisu? Arrivederci.

Which literally means goodbye until we meet again. And we will meet again, won't we? Soon, for another special episode, Kate. Keep an ear out. This weekend, we'll be bringing you a special episode, looking back at the King and Queen's 20 years of marriage. A lot more on those lovebirds just over there, coming soon with a very special guest.

But until then… Goodbye. Until we meet again. Well, it really is a state banquet fit for a king. Because here's the menu and it sounds delicious. Yum. Vegetables from the gardens of Castelparisano presidential residence, Kate. Yum.

Yum. Bottoni pasta with aubergine caponata. This is making me hungry. Seabass and salt crust, roast potatoes, fried artichokes, courgette flowers. Lovely. I had those the other night. Topped off with fiordilate ice cream cake with raspberries. Does that work for you? That's beautiful. I'm hot-fitting it to the Kirin alley for pudding.