The Royals with Roya and Kate - The Press & the Press Secretary

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

Kate is faced with a familiar challenge: how to glean as much information from the Royal Household as possible? Ailsa Anderson, Queen Elizabeth II's former press secretary, joins Kate in the studio for a one-to-one chat about journalism, royalty and what really goes on when you work behind the scenes at the palace. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Royals with Ailsa and her sidekick, Kate. Twas ever thus. I was going to say, Roy, don't go on holiday again. LAUGHTER Hello and welcome to The Royals. I'm Kate Mancy, Royal Editor of The Times, and here is where I would usually say, Hello Roya, but Roya's on holiday this week. However, do not fret because I am not alone.

Today I will be doing what I've become accustomed to doing over my years as a royal correspondent. I'll be trying to squeeze as much information out of a royal press secretary as possible. As we discussed earlier, Kate, how many ways can I say no comment in different languages? That voice is the voice of Elsa Anderson, former press secretary to the Queen,

who went from being a newspaper journalist to doing the poacher turned gamekeeper route of communications and was press secretary to the late Queen Elizabeth II from 2001 to 2013 and to date in the time that I've been doing this job the longest serving press secretary that I've known during which time she dealt with two jubilees, the death of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, the wedding of the current Prince and Princess of Wales and subsequent birth of Prince George, in which she played a starring role,

which you may or may not tell me about in a bit. And of course, she did loads more in between, such as leading communications on historic state visits, both inward and outward, becoming busymates with Obama and all sorts of other incredible things. But for listeners, Elsa, what does the press secretary to the Queen or King do? Well, Kate, first of all, thank you so much for that introduction. You make me sound much better than I actually am. So I think you should be in PR rather than me. So thank you. What does a press secretary do? Well, first of all,

as you said, I was a journalist. Then I worked in government communication. So I was chief press officer at the cabinet office before going to the household. So I sort of thought, you know, I've got this nailed. I worked for a cabinet minister, you know, heart of government. Alistair Campbell was sort of, at the time, front and centre in Downing Street. So I was slightly cocky going to work in the royal household. I thought, you know, nothing's going to faze me. How wrong could I be?

I mean, so many faux pas I made, so many mistakes, dressing someone by their wrong title, standing in the wrong place, doing the wrong thing but so it's a bit of a change of force going from government absolutely into into the palace because i think a lot of people do that that is a kind of tried and tested route so you might be comms at the mod or cabinet office and then you'll go into the palace sometimes they go on a secondment and never leave because that was me because if you're popular in the palace they don't want to let you go um but it is a different kettle of fish because it's a completely different world, isn't it? Absolutely.

And why is that? Is it because you've got that kind of one boss right at the top? I think so. I think it's also the complete obsession by the media for the trivial and the minutiae. I mean, that's the thing. You're coming from government where it's all policy-based to actually having this incredible hunger and appetite for what someone's wearing. What hat have they got on? Did they pat a horse or didn't they pat a horse? It was just absolutely extraordinary. the tiniest little bit of news would go everywhere. Absolutely. Once you're talking about what she had in her handbag

and this story that she would take a £5 folded up banknote in her handbag to church for the collection. And that would be huge, which for any other person or government minister or anything wouldn't be a story or any other celebrity what's in your handbag. I suppose on the plus side, it's quite easy to sell in a story because everyone's appetite for those sort of stories are you know second to none so you know where in government you might have a policy it's actually really difficult to explain it or or get it sold into the press you'd never have a problem like

that in the royal household you're pushing an open door an open door the flip side of that of course is if there's a story that you don't want out there, that's going to go around the world very quickly. Unless you can kind of guide the narrative or if there's something, you know, what happens if somebody comes to you or there's something out there and you know it's wrong? Yeah. How does that sort of machine then kick in? That's a really, really good point because ultimately you're

dealing with human beings people's lives and i remember i'm not going to say who it was but a member of the royal family coming into my office in absolute tears because they had read something in a newspaper which was absolutely factually incorrect this member of the royal family coming in absolutely and they said you say who it was no i can't sorry but they've got the newspaper they're coming into your... So that would happen. They would come into your office and hold it in the air and say... In tears. And say, look, my family have read this.

My friends have read this. And you've got to make that judgment, give that advice. If you start rebutting, there might be one or two elements of the story that are factually accurate. But if you start rebutting, you're setting a precedent and you're going to be asked about all the other elements of it. So that's tricky.

If the story's not going anywhere, if it's dead in the water, then if you start rebutting or making a comment, then you're actually creating a story of your own making and you're giving it legs to carry on. So it is a judgment call. Well, yes, a sort of Palace was last night forced to deny kind of a story. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, you've done a few of those, haven't you? Well, that's the sort of palace was last night forced to deny kind of a story. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, you've done a few of those.

Well, that's the sort of thing that you're trying to avoid, I suppose. Absolutely. You just want to shut it down. But then you've got the member of the royal family who you would address as sir or... Yeah, his royal highness, her royal highness. You would say your royal highness. Your royal highness. They've got it wrong. They say, well, what are you going to do about it?

Absolutely. And sometimes the answer is, the best thing is nothing. But how do they take that? Well, again, if it's something personal, they're human beings. I would feel the same as well, especially if my family, my children had read something about me that wasn't true. Right. But hopefully they listen to your experience and your judgment.

And if no one is asking about the story what you need to point out is if we do start rebutting it and going out on the front foot you're drawing attention to a story which no one else is picking up so let sleeping dogs lie yes but then there's the other kind of element of it that if the story has been going for several days was there a kind of test point that you learned from your time in government where you kind of thought well if there's a certain number of days for a story then you perhaps you you know need to regroup around your PR strategy absolutely I mean I wasn't there for it but you look at the Prince Andrew story with Jeffrey Epstein and the Newsnight interview you know that story was on the front pages. Well, you know, Kate, how many days, weeks? It's got repercussions now.

So, you know, what do you do about that, apart from not do the interview in the first place? Well, that would have been great advice, wouldn't it? Presumably advice you would have given the Duke of York if you were there. I didn't have all the facts to hand. We've all seen it. There are two dramas made out of it now. One's already been broadcast. One's coming up at the end of the year.

So not only have you got the Newsnight's actual story, you've got dramatisations of it. So, not helpful. But the dramatisation of the teddy bears, true. Because we know about the teddy bears on the Duke of York's bed. I have not seen the Duke of York's bed. I just like to go on the record and say that but I've never heard about teddy bears okay promise I promise as I think I've said to you

lots of times in the past Kate what I'm very very conscious of is I've never ever lied to a journalist before if I can't help you I can't help you but it's my integrity so on the record never seen teddy bears never heard about them well that's what I that's what I always liked about dealing with you Elsa was that it was kind of I knew there were some things that you couldn't help me with but if I came to you with a story that I'd got exclusively from a contact I knew first of all you wouldn't blab it to my rivals no second of all you wouldn't mislead me or lie about it. I mean, I'm not saying you would always particularly help. There were some elements that you weren't helpful with. I'm weird. I'm weird.

But I think that's that kind of trust, isn't it, between the palace and the press. And I think sometimes people think it's a really very cosy situation, but certainly it's not always that way. No, it's not. But you're just going back to your point about not briefing it to another journalist. If I did that, then you would never come to me again with your exclusive story. So I wouldn't be able to shape anything or knock it down if it wasn't true. Because you just think I'm not going to go to her. She's, you know, she's going to go and screw me over. So, you know, that is,

you've got to have some sort of integrity. And also, the boss wouldn't have wanted that. No. No, she wouldn't want anyone to lie mislead or or be disrespectful so tell us about that first day when you go in and you're looking around at the office are there any changes you need to make or so I shared an office with another press secretary who just joined the same time as me and the royal collection likes to display all sorts of beautiful paintings across the palace even the offices so I had this amazing I think it was a stubs of a horse and I love horses in my office but obviously hugely impractical so I asked a

member of the Royal Collection to remove it so I could have a notice board put in and I don't think anyone has ever done that ever so I think my days were numbered from day one I think. What was the reaction to that? They did it but fairly reluctantly. I don't think anyone has ever done that, ever. So I think my days were numbered from day one, I think. What was the reaction to that? They did it, but fairly reluctantly. I saw it somewhere else in the palace a few days later. It's been reused somewhere. It has been, yeah, re-gifted. And how does the day look?

So you'd go in, presumably you'd read the papers, knowing full well that the boss, as you call her, Queen Elizabeth II, was reading. Absolutely. A voracious reader of all the papers as well. Absolutely, she got all of them. She was across it. You had to be across it.

And then what sort of time do you get into the office, Buckingham Palace? Yeah, so I would crunch past those gravelled forecourt at about half past eight in the morning, settle down, have a cup of tea, read the papers, read the press cuttings. We would convene for a nine o'clock meeting with the private secretary, then a 10 o'clock press office meeting. So people knew what they were doing. We would have a forward plan to look ahead for engagement, see what other members of the Royal Family were doing as well.

And then the day would be as simple or as complicated as that. It could be filming during the day, there could be a visit, either domestic. There could be audiences. There could be an investiture. I mean, seriously, Kate, no two days were the same. It was a real, a massive thrill. I mean, it really was. I would leave that office and just think,

wow, who else is as fortunate to do this as the people who work for the household and work for the Queen? It's quite some office, isn't it, Buckingham Palace? But it's not quite all the kind of glitz and glamour. And obviously now we know there's this big resurfacing project that you must have seen behind the scenes that it really did need doing. Absolutely.

Because the Queen, as we know, used to go around turning lights off and trying to save money where she could. Yeah, absolutely. Was she comfortable there? Because she always spent weekends at Windsor, didn't she? Yeah. Rumour has it, and I don't know whether it's true or not, that her favourite residence was Balmoral.

I've stayed there. I can see why. It's absolutely stunning. And it's also, I suppose... She was a bit more relaxed there as well, wasn't she? I remember you saying that you had a little office in Balmoral, so you would go where she was. Yeah, absolutely.

And they say, metaphorically, she would leave her crown on the gates as she drove through to Balmoral Castle. That's really interesting. And she was a very relaxed, different person. I mean, she still did her red boxes every day. She still worked incredibly hard and was incredibly dutiful. And, of course, she'd have the Prime Minister to stay at the weekends. If they were visiting heads of state, she would often see them there.

There were the famous barbecues where she had visitors staying uh they would go out and on the estate and have a barbecue and they would have to help the queen do the washing up at the end of it they said so it didn't get out of it no absolutely not that was well what a great thing to tell your kids when you came home you know guess who i did the washing up with um so it was it's certainly more like she was would she come and talk to you about yeah but also she would you know I remember sitting so we would stay in Queen Victoria's children's old schoolhouse which is a sort of stone throws from the actual the actual castle and I remember sitting at the desk uh doing some doing some work doing some

writing and there was this sort of tap on the window and it was the queen walking the corgis and she was just checking in to see you know hopefully what i was doing some work thank goodness i didn't have my feet up watching eastenders or something i've had a little kind of smiley queen face just appearing at the window absolutely yeah that's not like any other not. But then you'd also go and stay at Windsor Castle and you'd be all around and, you know, overseas as well. Yeah, absolutely. But it wasn't, you know, obviously the Queen and Prince Philip

were put in fantastic accommodation. But for us staff, it's much more basic. And I always chose to stay with the media. And as you know, the newspapers don't have a lot of money to splash on accommodation and food, et cetera. So I used to stay in the same and as you know the newspapers don't have a lot of money to splash on accommodation and food etc so I used to stay in the same hotels as you guys so you took one of the team rat infested smelling keeping an eye on what we're up to well that's interesting because there are there are press officers and press officers and there's some who try to kind of align themselves

more with the royal household and some that prefer to keep their enemies close. I wouldn't call you an enemy. But also it's easier to brief if we're holding briefings. If I've got to travel halfway across the city to see you and be with you, that's ridiculous. It's much better. And also you've got access to me. And if there's a story brewing,

I'm going to get wind of it first, I hope, and can do some guidance or get a comment to you yeah you were very brave when it came to things like that I was very brave I know and that kind of old school PR as well I remember you hosting the Diamond Jubilee when you brought all the journalists in to tell us how it was going to work and there was this very elaborate kind of river pageant wasn't there that was planned and Gary Barlow was there to give the press conference and he you know he said you know ladies and gentlemen of the press we've got some bacon sandwiches here for you and I just thought yeah well done Elsa that's pretty good that's a

pretty good uh start to the press conference if you're trying to persuade journalists. Butter you up literally. Literally butter us up. Yeah with a bacon sarnie. But you were tough as well there were times when the job must have been tough for you as a mum with two young kids. Yeah. And dreading that kind of late night phone call from somebody who's got a stellar scoop, a scoop that you don't want to be out in public.

Are there times that you can go back to that you remember from those elements? Well, you're right. I remember a Christmas, so a couple of days before Christmas, and I hadn't wrapped any presents. I hadn't any stockings. Henry and Charlotte were little.

I was in the kitchen. Yeah, my children. And I was trying to make a bolognese sauce badly, clearly, and the phone went. And it was the duty private secretary at Sandringham, and Prince Philip had been taken to hospital to Papworth because he had a heart condition. Right.

So that's huge. How do you announce that news? Well, it's got to be factually. When do you announce the news? That's another element, isn't it? So there was no rumours going on, so we wanted to get it right. So you were already ahead of the curve in that respect. Absolutely, yeah.

And the statement was drafted, first of all, by the doctors involved, because obviously they can put the medical language in it. And, of course, it had to be approved by the Queen. So not only is she head of state, but she's at Sandringham, massively concerned about the health of her husband. And you're kind of putting a piece of paper, would it be kind of under her nose and saying, Mum, what do you think to this? Absolutely. So we drafted it with the doctors and the duty private secretary.

I think maybe a couple of changes were made. And we announced it after Prince Philip had a procedure. He had a stent put in his heart and we announced it after that. So, A, the message was good. You know, he was conscious when the procedure happened. He'll be recovering, staying in hospital for you know x number of days um but you know i remember that very well because i was everyone was out of the office pretty much it was kind of christmas eve or something wasn't it and i had to phone up my um former neighbor uh who had a set of keys to my house because i was

staying at my parents house for christmas and had to get him around to go in like rifle through my drawers look for my file effects that's how long ago it was nothing wrong with the file effects case no and and read out these kind of numbers for some of my contacts who were just in there and weren't in my phone stupidly but um that was interesting your mind is racing i remember going to bed at sort of four o'clock in the morning and of course you can't settle down because of all the activity that's been you know you've been on adrenaline yeah you have to be a bit of an adrenaline junkie to do that sort of these jobs i suppose absolutely and then you know i went to patworth hospital the next day um and i thought you know it's a day to christmas and actually you're looking back well my kids

appreciate it you know 20 years down the road when they say where's where's my stocking mommy but that's the the element of the sacrifice the duty, doing a job within the palace, that frankly, you could have been paid sort of umpteen times more outside to do the same job. Oh, absolutely, but an amazing job. And, you know, I was lucky I had some very good childcare. I had my amazing mum who helped a lot with the kids. But you were quite brave with that message as well going back to prince philip that you you gave us quite a lot of information at the time and i remember thinking goodness there's quite a lot of detailed information about what was wrong with him the fact that he'd had a stent

uh put in um for his arteries and i thought that was that was telling and interesting particularly reflecting on it now in a year when we've had all this kind of medical treatment. How do you think they've reacted this year, the Palace, to the details of Kate's cancer diagnosis, the King's cancer diagnosis? Really good. I think it's really, I think they've been brilliant. And it's, you know, I can, my heart goes out to them. You know, I've been there. I know exactly what is going through. And it's like you're in the middle of a tornado

and everything is spinning around and you're just waiting for the world to stop so you can catch your breath and then strategically plan your next move. Right. But when the phone is ringing off the hook, I think I remember telling you about, from the sublime to ridiculous,

I remember being the duty press secretary on a Saturday and I must have got about 50 or 60 phone calls from domestic and international media because Prince Philip had gone on an engagement and he had a plaster on his hand and you think oh my goodness. Well is it a minor cut on his hand but then people wanted to know thought it was a huge story. Absolutely and I thought I can't actually phone his royal highness or you know his private secretary and ask why he's got a plaster on because I'm going to get a massive telling off down the phone. You know, people are dealing with poverty and, you know, financial insecurities and death and destruction. And yet I get 60 calls because Prince Philip's got a plaster on his hand.

So it's interesting the sensitivity. And what had happened? Or did you you was it one of those moments you just thought he just grazed his hand yeah yeah end off see even now i'm curious to know what it was i still want to know um but that's interesting the sensitive hearing the sensitivity is the other side of the wall if you like so i'm the journalist ringing up about something you're on the other side and this sometimes we don't understand, why doesn't the palace just say? But this idea that the sensitivities are that they don't want to be seen to be putting out information at a time when there's war, there's poverty. Absolutely, because it looks like it's me, me, me.

People can't make their bills because it looks like they've put out that story saying, Prince Philip has his hand today because of X, Y and Z. Yeah, absolutely. So that's the sensitivity. So that's interesting, actually, because I think sometimes people don't realize why the palace is being obstructive but because the fear is that it might be seen that they're putting it out you know deliberately to to tell you know because for me i've got a poor you know that's interesting and they're conscious then i mean it all comes into how the how the royal family is seen and how the public perceive them. But also everyone, whether you're a prince or a pauper, everyone is entitled to your own private health issues.

So, you know, if you're going to start commenting about a plaster on someone's hand, when does that lead to? You know, when do you stop? to you know when do you stop this is kind of the public consumption element isn't it that when when are you there to inform the public about what's going on with the royal family and when they become private individuals and then the shutters go up and it's the kind of no comment yeah line absolutely but just going back to your your your point again you've issued a statement saying he had a cut on his hand because of so and so you'll get people who didn't realize this is in response to a media question saying why are they putting themselves out there you know who cares if he's got a cut on his finger that's interesting though that's because the journalists are asking so much more to discuss Elsa let's take a quick breather and maybe a cup

of tea and continue after this what about the time that somebody calls you with a story and it's the first time you've ever heard of it and it's a journalist and you don't know, you don't know where it's coming from. Someone's blabbed something somewhere. I mean, the immersion around the palace is, you know, it's very hard to break through to that, you know, to get those contacts.

But when you do, you hold them close as a journalist. But the other side of it is that it means that i could be coming to you with something that you don't you've never heard of before perhaps or you've known about for a while you were hoping it wouldn't come out can you think of a time when that's happened and how did you deal with it i feel like this is a job interview it's interesting you say that and i've always i'm always quite amused by how many royal experts or royal insiders there are that are quoted by newspapers or broadcast media and it could be someone who you know once you know shook hands with a member of the royal family on a walkabout and suddenly they're a royal expert so um sometimes the truth is it's

stretched somewhat may I may I say I remember I was at Windsor Castle there'd been an event and I was staying overnight in a little single bedroom um in a turret somewhere like Cinderella um and I got even that sounds so glamorous you you're painting it out for me. With the mice on the floor. Rapunzel, Rapunzel. And I got a call on a mobile phone, yes, we did have technology then, from the BBC's then royal correspondent, Nicholas Whitchell. Oh, yeah.

And Nicholas, all sort of breathy, came on the phone and said, Elsa, Elsa, I've got it on really good authority that the Queen Mother's dead. Oh, gosh. And I think, I thought, oh, my golly, not on my watch, please. And I thought, someone as clued in and connected as Nicholas Whitchell. Yeah, he took it very seriously. Very, very seriously, the old heart beating. And I phoned the Queen Mother's private secretary and said, Alastair, I've just been called by Nicholas Whitchell from BBC.

He's told me that the Queen Mother's dead. And Alastair said, hold on a minute. Ma'am, ma'am, the BBC seem to think you're dead. Oh, how funny. So clearly she was, and I've never been so pleased to hear a conversation in the background in my life. I bet you enjoyed making that phone call back. Oh, yeah, yeah, I sure did. It's always nice to knock a story down.

Knock a story down. Authentically, yeah. Which was interesting, isn't it? So how do you PR the palace in normal times? What's interesting, isn't it? So how do you PR the palace in normal times? How do you PR the palace when something really is kind of hitting the fan or going awry? You've lived through some of those times. Sadly, of course, the Queen Mother did die and you had to manage that.

But you've seen births as well. I have. Tell us about your role in Prince George's announcement. I'm just going to tease you slightly for a minute, Kate, when you say PR-ing the palace, that what the Queen would hate, the Queen would hate to hear if the palace was PR-ed. Honestly, my head would be on a chopping block up in the tower.

Why? What would she say to that? Because we don't need, we're not, you know, her thing was about duty and honour and service. So she's doing it in a genuine way that the monarch did. So it's not a kind of, I don't have a spin operation. Absolutely. Right, okay. That's really interesting.

Yeah, so not PRing the palace. So not PRing, not kind of putting out, but just sort of illuminating some of the work that they do. Absolutely, and also it's not necessarily about them it's you know it's it's putting the spotlight on the charities that they're involved with um what they're patron of so actually you know those organizations that probably will go unrecognized unless they you know unless they had a member of the royal family as a patron so it it's actually a spotlight on them. You've told me off now.

I can't remember what I was saying. I feel like I've been told off by the Queen. No! Never, never tell you off, Kate. What was I saying? Prince George. Baby Prince George is born. Everyone goes nuts. We'd had the royal wedding in 2011.

Were you outside the hospital? Yeah. How long were you outside for hospital yeah yeah how long were you out boiling it was a big thing because it was the kind of this next generation absolutely of the royal family of the air you know the air to the air to the you know there was this line of succession everyone was excited nobody knew if it was going to be a boy or girl they had changed the rules of royal primogeniture male primogeniture in order to sanction that if if it was a baby girl that she would be the first in line to the throne after William yeah and it was a big deal um there

were just people kind of camped outside for days but you were behind the scenes in a way which was interesting because back then you it wasn't you know Charles taking over as the grandfather and it wasn't even William, but back then it was very much the Queen was the boss. Yes. Her press secretary was the person who was going to be putting that announcement out there. And so, you know, enter stage Elsa Anderson.

I know, it's very weird. Thanks. It was very weird for someone who's never, who's a spokesperson, you're never quoted by name in a newspaper or on broadcast media to actually

be on telly and I remember coming home after all the excitement and posting the announcement on the ratings so what did you do

just tell us what you actually did so the formal announcement on Buckingham Palace notepaper is put in a beautiful

beautiful frame. It's signed by all the medical team who were part of the birth. And it's basically just the facts. So mother and baby doing well, weight, time of birth. So I walked across the Palace forecourt. Buckingham Palace. Buckingham Palace forecourt with a with a lovely colleague footman and we chained this announcement on the railings which was photographed and recorded by a telly

and the press association um and then people started queuing to see the announcement so it was amazing yeah and we went back into the office and all had a sigh of relief and i think as he cracked open a bottle of champagne, which would have been the natural response. I did that when I got home. Anyway, I got home and my son, who I don't know how old he was at the time, not very old, said, Mummy, we saw you on television.

What's for supper? But grounded. Right back down to earth. Had to knock him over and shoot that. Absolutely. Absolutely absolutely I mean kids and dogs always keep you grounded yeah well there's a nice

picture I've seen of you with the corgis actually talking about dogs oh gosh are you friends with the corgis because they're a little terrorist aren't they

I've got a Labrador cage so I think that's that's enough said I think we know what you're saying about the corgis that was amazing we were doing some

filming at Sandringham and after the camera crew's gone, I went and just said to the Queen, thank you so much because I wanted to film her with the corgis walking across the lawn. And she stood there chatting about these corgis and doggies and I got a masterclass in sort of dog breeding. It was absolutely extraordinary.

And I think, certainly for the Queen, once the cameras are away and sort of all the sort of officialdom goes, she can really be herself. And of course, nothing she likes more than talking about animals. So I was just, it was just amazing. It's amazing.

It's nice to have that kind of, those experiences with her. Yeah, yeah. And also, it must be strange for you seeing, well, seeing William grow up and have Prince George and Harry, of course, because you know those princes when they were a lot younger. And do you see them sort of walking around the palace?

What was your kind of connection with them? Not so much. You knew them to chat to. Yeah. I mean, obviously, they didn't stay at Buckingham Palace. They only came for official events. But I've got a lovely photograph of Prince Harry and myself standing outside a ladies loo which is very classy What was he saying? He's got his arm around you

hasn't he at one point? I couldn't possibly I couldn't possibly comment on that But that is that was part of the Diamond Jubilee concert and there was a reception afterwards He was fun then? Maybe he's fun now I don't know but what do you think?

I don't know now, I don't know I don't know now I don't know haven't I haven't seen him for a number of years but certainly my um involvement with him when I was uh at the palace he was lovely he was charming he was interesting um you know all the things that you know you've probably written about um I think personally the Invictus Games, which he has founded and supported, is extraordinary. I'm a daughter of a naval officer. I know for a fact how many injured servicemen really, really appreciate it. I think he's incredibly passionate about it. And that wouldn't have happened without him.

We're both daughters of the Navy. Oh, you as well? Yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. We could be sisters. Yeah, exactly. You could be sisters yeah exactly you can be my glamorous my glamorous sister

but I do wonder if your old boss you know what she would make of some of these things now if I had a crystal ball Kate I would gaze into it and I'd give you an answer

but who knows wow that's interesting isn't it but yeah we never really knew what the Queen thought I think with the King he may not do interviews as King, who knows,

but he certainly hasn't done yet. But I wonder if we can kind of guess what he thinks, can't we, in a way that we never could with the Queen. Yeah, but... But would she tell you what she thought of things? Kate, if she did, I'm afraid I couldn't confirm or deny. Listeners are getting an insight into... But I can talk about...

I'll give you an example of her incredible... I think I've told you this story previously, her incredible kindness to her staff. And it was during the state visit by President and Mrs Obama. Oh. And obviously all the formalities on day one at Horse Guards Parade. And then there is an arrivals lunch where the Queen's senior staff and the visiting heads of state's senior staff have lunch with the principals.

And I was standing at a pre-lunch reception chatting to another member of the household, and out of the corner of my eye, I could see the Queen moving towards us with President Obama. And I thought, I wonder who the Queen's taking him to talk to. Yeah, I'll keep an eye out the Queen's taking him to talk to. Yeah, I'll keep an eye out. Anyway, she came straight towards me. And she said, President Obama, this is my press secretary. Her husband is in the Royal Navy.

And he started to say, oh, ma'am, I can't do an American accent, so apologies. Your husband does an amazing job. Please tell him from me that, you know, what extraordinary. And all I could think was, oh, my golly, the Queen has just introduced me to President Obama. You know, you have a think bubble. And I just, I talked gibberish at him for about 30 seconds and then slunk off.

But, I mean, how kind is that to do that? That's very kind. Didn't have to. That's very kind indeed. And a moment that you'll never forget. Never forget. Inside the palace, I'm all minutiae. Did you ever swim in the pool?

I did. Did you? Yes. Is it good? Is it nice? It's basic. It's basic, yes. It's really cold. How long is it?

Is it like 20 metres or something? I don't know what 20 metres looks like. Is it like small? Yeah. And did the Queen ever use it? No, but Diana did, famously. Did she? So you're allowed to use it as staff or is because you're

a special i know you book special you book in yeah to make sure is there an app for that can you imagine if there's a parking palace pool there's tennis courts as well in the garden so we used to book those as well in the evenings play tennis you could bring guests in to play tennis gosh this is a big advert for working at the palace isn't it it is it is what were your highlights you know looking back there's so much i mean i hope you've written all this down but i mean you can't write a book can you you're not allowed to no book writing ah so just tell us tell us all the stuff you would help like a spell as well and write properly i think there's a golly kate you know too much and it's not necessarily those sort of big sort of state visits,

not the islands, even though that was incredible and you felt like you really were sitting on the shoulder of history doing that. And I was present when the late Queen met Martin McGuinness. And again, you feel like this is almost the most extraordinary event in ordinary circumstances. I mean, it was amazing. It was a handshake, wasn't which was which was groundbreaking absolutely after the troubles and everything yeah so you know all those big things obviously we'll never yeah i'll never

forget but it's also the small things as well i mean going on an engagement you know to a primary school and the queen will come back and say did you hear what that little boy said and she would always find something to remember or to talk about or to recollect and i think remarkable in a 70 year reign that you can still find joy and interest from you know sort of a fairly normal royal engagement so she still loved people meeting different people right to the end absolutely and prince And Prince Philip seemed to love it. He seemed like he fed off it. There was an energy that he was such an extrovert, wasn't he? He really got energy from being in a room with people and meeting them.

Totally. When you spoke to him, you would feel that you're the most important person in that room. It's like a beacon shining on you. He'd make you feel really... That sort of charismatic kind of leader type absolutely absolutely um you know sometimes so many people you hear say i've met the queen but i have no idea what i said to her because it's just all in a sort of in a bubble and you hear that a lot i remember i remember talking to helen mirren there was a reception at at the palace and we were in a room waiting there's a lineup of people waiting to be presented and Helen Mirren

said I'm quite nervous and I said golly you've just won an Oscar for playing the Queen and now you're meeting her how can you be nervous she said well this is someone who's been in my life you know all of my life and now to actually meet her she said it's you know it's it's really funny to get your head around people charming but it's funny how they still got the butterflies meeting the Queen yeah no matter how big you are there's always the queen was always top dog absolutely absolutely well i'm very privileged and uh pleased that you were able to join me today because you're very important and have been an important part of the story although you have succeeded in not becoming the story.

Thank goodness, and long may that continue. Yeah, it's always sort of rule number one, don't become the story. Absolutely. And you haven't, but I'm so thrilled that you were able to share some of your experiences with us today. It's been a joy. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. Great. Go for a drink now.

Perfect. Great. Great, go for a drink now Perfect Right Bye We didn't talk about What in his beard? Oh my god I love that beard Do you love the beard? I did love I did really

I really Would the late queen have loved the beard? I'm not sure I think she would have think it was a bit scruffy because he wasn't allowed to have it for his wedding

was he? Allegedly Allegedly? Well I don't know I think hey because he wasn't allowed to have it for his wedding, was he? Allegedly. Allegedly? Well, I don't know. I think he was told he wasn't allowed to have it for the wedding. That's why he was cross that Harry got to keep his beard for the wedding. Allegedly.

Allegedly. I think he looks really hot. Do you? Yeah. That sounds a bit sort of cougarish, I'm afraid. You don't think he's making up for what he's losing on top by kind of having a party underneath? No, I really, I thought, honestly, that really did it for me. It floated all my boats.