The Royals with Roya and Kate - The Royals at Westminster Abbey

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

It has been called "a House of God, and a House of Kings" and Westminster Abbey has been at the very heart of Royal occasions playing host to coronations, weddings, and funerals. And now a podcast, this podcast. In this special episode, Roya and Kate have the Abbey to themselves as they discuss its history, reflect on recent events there and explore the Royal family’s relationship with religion. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a house of God, Kate. It's a house of kings. Kate, tell the listener where we are and what we're currently looking at because it's quite something. It is. We are inside the centre of Westminster Abbey, the heart of every royal occasion, and currently we're standing looking at the Grand Cosmati Pavement. Just imagine the royal feet that have walked these floors, the Prince and Princess of Wales on their wedding day. And of course, it's the ground upon which King Charles III was crowned. And now, it's the ground that's played host to an episode of The Royals,

with me, Roya, and you, Kate. For listeners, we're not actually allowed to stand on the pavement itself. Shh, don't tell them that. Hello Roya. Hello Kate. From inside a rather echoey Westminster Abbey we have been very kindly allowed in before opening hour, so it's just us here, before scores of visitors arrive for our own private tour of one of the most important buildings

in Royal history. It really is an extraordinary setting and amazing to see it completely empty. We have it just to ourselves because of course this is a place for worship for celebration and ceremony and many of Britain's most significant historic moments of the past 1,000 years have happened here and we've been here for a few Kate haven't we? We have yeah and inside this building I mean it's probably the one building that signifies that relationship between the royal family, the nation, the church all in one place And we're going to get into that in a minute. It's known as a house of God and a house of kings for very good reason.

And queens. And queens, because this is where it all happens, where they're crowned, where the funerals are held, where some of the major weddings have been held. Prince and Princess of wales in 2011 most recently king charles iii being crowned alongside queen camilla and we've been here for some of the recent ones but of course the history goes back a very long way and i think that's part of the majesty of this building that you have that stretching ahead and behind like the royal family

itself that kind of sense of stability but embodied here in a physical place i like what you've done there stretching stretching ahead and behind it's true and actually looking down the nave and up to the high altar and remembering that scene last may when it was all blue and yellow do you remember we walked we had that amazing preview tour of the abbey before the coronation and we were like oh look it's the blue and yellow and everything was going on with ukraine and actually reminded that actually no it was history and that was the same color scheme that the queen had had for her coronation but just just being here and instead of as you say remembering that link between the crown the church the state it's all tied up here in the abbey isn't it for those big

historic moments just remembering the coronation actually when we walked in there was something that you couldn't tell from watching it on television which was that smell that hit you of all the flowers that charles had insisted were put in here and you had the kind of floral display that was sort of tumbling over the back there and just the smell was extraordinary the fragrance of all the flowers and they had that kind of sloping platform that went up to make it easier for the the king and queen to walk up and back down and I remember them even saying that they had special carpet laid down with a weave, which had no friction so that the coronation gowns

wouldn't snag as they walked back down the aisle. So every single element of it was planned. The great thing about that morning, Kate, was that we had to be here very early, didn't we? A few hours before it all kicked off. But the brilliant thing about that was I walked around the Abbey a fair amount just to check out who was sitting where and you started to feel the

difference in history and tradition and how different it felt to obviously you and I had watched the Queen's coronation from 1953 on the TV and obviously the Abbey was completely transformed there weren't as many people there were far fewer people in the Abbey it completely transformed. There weren't as many people. There were far fewer people in the Abbey. It was still absolutely packed. For Charles's, yeah. For Charles's coronation. But as you walk around, instead of, you know,

thousands and thousands of sort of peers and peer wrestlers from the UK, there was Lionel Richie. Charity workers. Lots of charity workers. Ant and Dec got a cheer when they walked past. Remember that? They were in the North Transept. It was a bit like a cocktail party in the North Transept.

There was all sorts going on. It was a sense of a wedding. It felt really joyful. Celebratory. It did. And you're right, it was completely different for, would have been completely different for the Queen's, the late Queen's coronation,

where they had basically scaffolding in to cram about 8,000 spectators in for that event. Now there's only about 2,000, a little over 2,000 for the King Charles III coronation. So quite different different and I think the spectators back in 53 wouldn't have been allowed to walk around they had to stay there for hours and hours there was that great sense I mean right down to the music it felt like it was a wedding it felt like Charles had had a hand in it right down to the music and people's just

sitting in the pews and that sense of incredible sense of history in the making. It was also that ceremony, the coronation ceremony, it was a marker of the evolution of the king's and the monarch's approach towards faith. Because, of course, the coronation is an enactment of the anointing of the king, that notion of the divine right of kings and queens to be supreme governor of the Church of England. Yeah, the hand of God sanctioning their reign, essentially. But it was the first time in a coronation, wasn't it, that leaders from other faiths had been actively involved in proceedings. And Charles was very keen to make sure that it felt like a multicultural, very multi-faith service. Yeah, very different. Which marked a change, I think.

And I thought it was interesting that, you know, in the house of God, in the house of the Protestant faith, that was something he was very important to convey. Yeah, particularly because years ago, there was a lot of talk, wasn't there, about that he would be defender of faith, not defender of the faith. But of course, he was, when it came to it, defender of the faith, the Anglican church, that is, having said that he did bring all those other religions into it so we had leaders of the other faiths that were here for for that occasion what else was the sort of key differences in that service well i think apart from it being a lot shorter it was a lot shorter the guest list

um women there were there were women there was a women bishops involved for the first time right there yes we had penny mordant didn't we holding the sword as well so there was it was more diverse in terms of gender religion ethnicity and i think one of the interesting things for me was the things that didn't change like the anointing which wasn't televised so we didn't see that moment that happened behind the screen that's the point at which you know that that's the sacrament of the coronation ceremony which is ancient which goes back to the days of Edward the Confessor. So Kate having watched King Charles and Queen Camilla be crowned right up there shall we make our way up to the famous Cosmati pavement? Let's go and have a better look.

make our way up to the famous Cosmati pavement. Let's go and have a better look. Let's go and have a look. So here we are at the high altar, the Cosmati pavement that was laid down in 1268 by order of Henry III. Tell us a little bit about the history. In the 1040s, King Edward, later King Edward the Confessor, established his royal palace by the banks of the River Thames on land known as Thorny Island. Close by was a small Benedictine monastery founded under the patronage of King Edgar and Saint Dustin around 960 AD. And the monastery Edward chose to re-endow and greatly enlarge, building a large stone church in honour of St Peter the Apostle. So that church became known as the Westminster, which is where we get Westminster from, which for now that's sort of the seat of Parliament in London. But that was known as Westminster to distinguish it from St Paul's Cathedral, which was known as the Eastminster. See what they did there in the city

of London. Unfortunately, when the new church was consecrated on 28th of December 1065, the king was too ill to attend and died a few days later. But his remains are entombed in the front of the high altar here. And I think I'm right in saying, Kate, that since 1066, famous date for us, Battle of Hastings and all that, all British monarchs except two yeah edward the fifth and edward the eighth have been crowned at the abbey so william the conqueror first he was crowned here on christmas day in 1066 yeah and one of the peculiar things about the abbey is that

it's known as a royal peculiar and a royal peculiar what's that you may ask well it's known as a royal peculiar. And a royal peculiar, what's that, you may ask? Well, it's different from most other churches that fall under their diocesian jurisdiction. The sovereign, the crown, is responsible for the abbey. So the king technically oversees all things Westminster Abbey, although, of course, there's a dean and lots of people who really are in charge. Every time we come here, Kate, and you and I come here now and then

for great occasions of state, the Princess of Wales, of course, has had her together at Christmas carol service here for the last few years. When you walk in, you can't, I don't know about you, but I find I sort of can't help but feel very sort of immersed

in the history of this place. It's sort of, you know, living, breathing history, isn't it, if you can call it that, because it's still of you know living breathing history isn't it if you can call it that because it's still used every single day as a place of worship you know to say that I always think it's lazy when sort of broadcasters say well there's a great atmosphere in a place but nowhere is it more true than here because you know there's that kind of weight of history and what's interesting is when you see members of the royal family who do gather here whether it be for princess of wales's carol concert or you know a funeral or something very grand high matters of state like a coronation you can see

that they sense that weight of history as well and it's one of the few places where you actually can see what people are thinking almost though you. The awe on people's faces as they come here. It has a very interesting effect on people right from the moment they walk in. And I think you and I feel that every time. It never gets old to come here. It's completely extraordinary. It's so special.

And that history is everywhere. Everywhere you look, you've got that sense of the past. One of the more striking and modern features of this very historic abbey, steeped in history and old things, is that wonderful, wonderful window, stained glass window that we can see by David Hockney, that was commissioned to mark the reign of Her Late Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. And as you look around...

And it's very modern, obviously. I mean, it's classic kind of Hockney style, isn't it? And quite different, quite a departure, really, but historic in its own right. Because you look around in all the other stained glass windows, most of them feature what you would expect. Religious scenes and saints and martyrs. But there, it's very much David Hockney.

It's about the outdoors. It's about nature. It's blue sky, trees, green tree, lots of kind of flower-looking things sprouting out of the ground. Not your average stained glass window, I would say. But now it takes its place, quite rightly, as another part of the story of the abbey which continues to change and of course they're building a new sacristy which will be

known as King Charles III sacristy started in 2020 during Covid and it's underway now so that's a very exciting addition they'll have on the side of the Abbey, when it's completed, through what's now a sort of heavy leather door, there will then be a new kind of visitor's centre as well, which will be fully disabled access, wheelchair accessible, making another chapter of the story of the Abbey, which I think is wonderful. Quickly back to that window.

What I love about that window is in this great abbey full of tradition and, you know, there are artists and poets and, you know, great figures of literature and the arts. Hockney is really acknowledged as our greatest living artist.

I remember him coming to the palace once to see the king and he was wearing his yellow crocs. Yeah. Slipper sandal thing. I think there's something wonderful about something very contemporary and modern by you know our greatest living artist now being installed yeah i mean it looks you know you might come in and think that it's a huge

departure because it's so quote-unquote modern or post-modern i suppose you might call it but that's what the abbey has been every monarch has made their own mark in it in some way shape or form people will look back at that and think it looks really traditional well shall we go and take a closer look because i think under that window not far from that window is where we were both sitting for both the late queen elizabeth ii's funeral and the coronation of king charles iii that's great let's go and the coronation of King Charles III. That's great. Let's go and check it out. So, Kate, we are now in the North Transept,

just by that magnificent David Hockney stained glass window that we've been talking about. And this section of the Abbey was where you and I had seats for the late Queen's funeral in 2022, had seats for the late Queen's funeral in 2022, which was an extraordinary ceremony, culminating at the end of 10 days of sort of ceremony and commemoration and remembrance of London Bridge, which was the name for Queen Elizabeth's funeral.

Nearly two years ago, hard to think, isn't it? That's how long it was. It's time-blown. I think the coffin was just over there on the catafalque, with the flowers on top and the the crown as well the signifier that you know symbols and i remember princess anne saying later that when she saw the crown on the coffin that was the moment that she thought yeah mum you did a good job over to you it's you know that she could give it back that the burden of that

wearing the crown the burden of the job was now over for her we also could see beyond the coffin the mourners you know the immediate family it was quite something to be part of that and and you do forget about the royal family that they don't really have that many private moments the coffin was taken to buckingham palace where they could have that private time but all those big ceremonies the weddings the funerals are held in full public view and think much of our own families and think that they're not afforded that sense of privacy in the same way and we were also both there do you remember when the coffin came how can we forget

when the coffin came in for the lying in state? In Westminster Hall. That was an extraordinary moment. And there weren't that many people there. There was 10 journalists that I can remember. And then the immediate family and a few other kind of extended family members. And we could just hear the drums being banged as it came down the mall. And the sense that the drums were getting closer and closer.

And for me, that was the moment that it all sort of sunk in, really. And I think probably did for the family. I don't know. I can remember before everything started here for the Queen's funeral, I walked over to that side, to the South Transept. And as all the Commonwealth leaders started coming in and then the arrivals of the heads of state, and, you know, there were presidents here

and prime ministers from all over the world. They'd been at Buckingham Palace the night before, hadn't they, for that reception? Exactly, and you got a real sense of the extraordinary relationships that the Queen had with international leaders and heads of state wanting to come here and pay tribute. But again, that feeling that this was, you you know the moment that the nation and the world and

the commonwealth could say their proper goodbyes and end of an era as well it wasn't just about one person's funeral in a way it was the end it marked the end of the only reign that most people in in the country in the commonwealth had ever known i remember looking around and there were it was interesting who was here we looked around and so obviously just here were members of the Queen's household and her private secretaries and her dresser Angela Kelly and then you looked around and there was Chris Whitty who played such an important role during the you know the pandemic and people who made significant marks on national life again it was that feeling of bringing all those different people together

to pay tribute to someone, as you said, who was pretty much the only head of state and head of nation that most of us and most of them had ever known. And there's something about the Abbey because, of course, the funeral then moved on to Windsor and to St George's Chapel for a much, I say low-key, it wasn't really low-key, but a more intimate ceremony. Far fewer people there.

The sort of final act of the final journey where she was buried. But Westminster Abbey was and is the sort of marker of the big state side of those occasions. That was a state funeral. And it sort of heralds that moment that the entire nation

obviously people watching at home on tv and around the world on tv see the queen coming in for that final journey the abbey just feels like a marker point for that absolutely i've got my order of service still and i look at it i've put it in a sort of plastic sheet and i still look at it and think i can't believe i was there for Queen Elizabeth's funeral it was it was a moment wasn't it it was huge particularly you know when you think that you and I have been doing this job for quite a long time and rain change is such a momentous occasion historically for the nation for for the institution of monarchy and to be there at that moment that felt like of course you know Charles had become king the moment that the Queen passed away.

But that was the moment that it felt like, you know, it's one of the moments that I felt I was very privileged to do my job. Because one of the most, it still surprises me almost on a daily basis that this job kind of opens doors to places I would never normally have access apart from through this role. So it was a privilege, a real privilege. So Kate, April the 29th, 2011, cast your mind back. I remember it. You and I were quite new to this gig, weren't we, The Royal Beat? Well, we were. I was only five months in and had been dealing with the biggest juggernaut story of the last few years

from the royal beat i was at the sunday times and i said we've got this royal wedding coming up and who's covering it and i remember the news editor sort of looking around the room and going you and that was the beginning it was of um yeah sort of doing it full time because before then people would dabble pick up stories here and there maybe the religious correspondent would pick up some royal stories but this was this was huge you know right from the engagement it was a big deal wasn't it Catherine Middleton who was going to do the dress oh yes Sunday Times broke that story and I don't think Kate Middleton as she was at the time was very pleased Star Magazine don't look at me you were there but not the design not the design we didn't we didn't reveal the design of it

it was huge it was it was the first big royal wedding for ages it was and it was the first I think since you and I had started doing that job, but it was the first big moment of national celebration connected to the royal family. And of course, that day started here, didn't it? Literally started here at the Great West All That. Those iconic shots of Catherine coming out of the car with her father with Pippa Middleton. Pippa Middleton also became pretty iconic. Pippa became an overnight sensation, didn't Middleton also became an overnight sensation didn't she? Very snug dress design. Looking fabulous and yeah you can almost see it what's great about the

obvious you can almost see it now I mean it doesn't take much imagination to sort of see them walking because those pictures went around the world are so implanted and you know ingrained in people's memories. I remember the music she She walked into the I Was Glad. Yes. And of course, Charles had had a big hand in the music that he'd liaised with Catherine on the music. And it was a wonderful scene. And she and Michael, her father, looked so happy. And we're going to talk a little bit later

about the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior, the grave of the Unknown Warrior there, because that plays a very important part in royal weddings as it did in that wedding. But I remember also she, as Catherine walked down towards William towards William and there was there was Harry by her side yes and they were bantering away you know William looking quite nervous and Harry looked around first and said and then looked back to William and said something like she looks beautiful there's a lovely bit where they get to the they get to the altar William turns to Mike Middleton

and says just a small family wedding Mike it's filled with you know more than 2,000 people and it was a juggernaut wasn't it it was huge there were trees lining the nave all the way up that that had been taken from I think they'd been been taken from the UK and some of the royal estates. That's right. They were replanted afterwards. And I wonder if it will be the last big royal wedding of that sort that we will see. I mean, it's hard to think that Prince George or Princess Charlotte

will have something like that because there were former prime ministers invited. There was a lot of protocol over the guest list, I remember, because they dropped the guest list to the press. And it was interesting who was on it and who wasn't on it. So I think there'd been some kind of Labour snubs, you know, former Labour PMs who'd been left off the list. Yes, I remember doing that story about political. John Major was on the list, the former Tory Prime Minister, of course, and the Palace.

Well, that's because he's close to the family. But there was protocol. There was a lot of hoops that I think, as a young couple, they had to jump through. That must have been quite overwhelming for Catherine, marrying into the family anyway, and then to have all this other stuff around the outside that comes with marrying a member of the royal family. One of them getting out as well, because they had the carriage waiting and she looked to him and I think every single newspaper and broadcaster in the country had hired lip readers

to say what they were saying. And she looked to him and said, are you happy? And he said, yes, or something like that. But it wasn't until they got to the balcony and had the kiss that i think they saw really relaxed because there's just this this sense of occasion it's not a small private family wedding as william joked to michael milton is it it's getting married in front of a global audience and that wasn't an option for them i think you know millions it. It probably is what they would have wanted, but it's not up to them. The late Queen was thrilled, wasn't she?

I remember her wearing her favourite buttercup coloured outfit. She looked like a ray of sunshine, didn't she? Outfit. And she was so happy. Maybe it was the sense that William was well on the way to adulthood and secure life. Plastical happiness. happiness yeah she's obviously very fond of her grandsons and of course for William a very poignant moment because he had been here in 1997 for the funeral of his mother Diana Princess of Wales a very different occasion

so all those emotions and the history of this place. I mean this place for William I think more than anybody else must just be extreme you know when he kissed his his father when he was part of the coronation service recently and like you say his late mother her funeral here which was and his grandmother something else I mean having to walk behind the coffin, something that we talk about for ages. But for William, this place must be just full with so many memories. It's hard to fathom. And he's not somebody who goes to church very regularly, as we know. Who knows what his relationship will be with the church when he ascends the throne. It's hard to think that far ahead sometimes.

Well, after the king's coronation, I was reflecting on the traditions of the coronation and how Charles had adapted it to make it his own. But it still felt full of tradition and full of symbolism. And parts of it were... Yeah, I didn't get the sense that anything had been left out. And parts of it were... Yeah, I didn't get the sense that anything had been left out. But there was a feeling that William was already looking to the future, thinking how he wanted his coronation to be quite different. My understanding is he will want to have it here,

but it will look and feel quite different. And then one year into King Charles's reign, a book came out and there was speculation that perhaps William, who isn't known as a churchgoer isn't known as having such a deep faith as his father and his grandmother they give suggestions you know that courtiers were worried and some members of the church of England were worried that you know would he want to uphold that tradition of being well constitutional tradition of being head of the church of England and he he moved very quickly to that and actually say yes i will not cut ties with the church of england but i suppose throwing

forwards there is always that question of someone who's not quite as obviously committed to the church yeah how will that sort of marry with that role when he becomes but anyway he's got a blueprint hasn't he he's got it's easier for will William because there would have been a fairly recent coronation. You know, with the greatest will in the world, Charles isn't going to live as long, isn't going to have as long a reign as his late mother. But they were kind of reinventing stuff for Charles. You know, 70 years on,

they had to look at what had been done in the past, honour the traditions of it and move forward with the future. Whereas William, I think, well, it'll be easier to roll out a plan based on what he wants. Relevant. The mood music coming from Kenston Palace was, he had been thinking that the king's coronation had made him think a lot about what he wanted his coronation to look like and how he wanted it to feel more modern and relevant. Taking notes, yeah.

While we're at Westminster Abbey, we thought we had to come and see this incredible space. So we've just gone through the Lady Chapel and we're in a sort of side chapel of that, which holds the tombs of both Queen Elizabeth I and Queen Mary I, Roya. What do you make of those two being in the same place? Well, I mean, talk about sibling rivalry leading to one destination.

Elizabeth I, so we're told by the very kind members of the press team at Westminster Abbey who've let us do this this morning, people always ask to see Elizabeth I. It's a hot ticket. And I'm into this and i'm not surprised because she is of all british monarchs when people talk about the great great british monarchs she is you know the elizabethan age she is the first elizabethan age also there's a very interesting talking about what do you make of elizabeth and mary the first being

buried here together given that they were at loggerheads over faith. There's a very interesting, quite moving inscription here on the stone in front of their tombs, which says, Near the tomb of Mary and Elizabeth, remember before God all those who divided at the Reformation by different convictions, lay down their lives for Christ and conscience' sake. It's no surprise to me that people, when they come to the Abbey, want to come see this, and we're in this incredible kind of side chapel

with its extraordinary intricate ceiling and little cherubs looking down on us from the walls. Elizabeth, this being the burial place and resting place of Elizabeth I and Queen Mary, of course, there are 30 kings and queens buried here, starting with Edward the Confessor in 1066, whose shrine stands just behind the high altar. There are five monarchs buried in royal tombs surrounding his shrine. Henry III, Edward I, Edward III, Richard II, and Henry V. The last monarch buried at the abbey was King George II in 1760.

And the Stuart Vault is obviously in the South Isle, where Charles II, William III, Mary II and Queen Anne lie buried. I think I'm right in saying that Queen Anne is buried with her children. There's quite a few of her children who died when they were in the Stuart vault in the other side. Someone's pointing, she's in the other side. There's nowhere else quite like Westminster Abbey for that. You have not just history of kings and queens here, but the history of great... Of the nation. Of the nation, of the arts,

of people like Geoffrey Chaucer, that great author of the Canterbury Tales, buried in Poet's Corner alongside so many other great figures of literature and science. Well, we have the ashes of Stephen Hawking interred here, which is curious in its own way, given that he wasn't necessarily a man of god but was part of that kind of national story and this is the place for those great lives to be

commemorated yeah and there's one very special grave that we should visit on the way out. There is. Let's go there now Kate. So we've come to one of the most important tombs in Westminster Abbey. We walked up to the tomb of the Unknown Warrior. There is the grave of the Unknown Warrior just by the entrance to Westminster Abbey. Now our private tour is coming to an end so members of the public are now in which is probably the sound that you can hear in the background. And the grave of the unknown warrior has a very moving history Kate. It does. It contains the body of a soldier who was brought from France. He buried here on the 11th of November in 1920 and the grave contains soil from France covered by a black slab of Belgian marble from a quarry near Nemours. It says, beneath this stone rests the body of a British warrior,

unknown by name or rank, brought from France to lie among the most illustrious of the land and buried here on Armistice Day, 11th November 1920, in the presence of His Majesty King George V, his ministers of state, the chiefs of his forces and a vast concourse of the nation. And there's actually amazing footage of that. I remember a few years ago looking back at that footage and it's very moving, it's very still and it reminds you of the relationship between monarch, the royal family and the armed forces.

That's right. And all the sacrifice that was made in the name of the country. We've talked a lot about royal weddings during this episode. And there is a lovely moving tradition associated with the grave of the unknown warrior and royal brides. That's right. with the grave of the unknown warrior and royal brides. That's right. Started by Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother in 1923 when she married George VI. On her way into the abbey, she walked past the grave

and set down her wedding bouquet on the grave in memory of her brother Fergus who died at the Battle of Loos in 1915. That's right so she went up to get married without the bouquet because she placed it here in memory of him. And the tradition since then is that every royal bride who has married at the Abbey or elsewhere have either laid their wedding bouquets on the grave or have sent their bouquets afterwards to lie on the grave in memory. And it's become, well, Princess Diana as well, who got married at St Paul's, her bouquet came here. And obviously the Princess of Wales now is, her bouquet came here.

And in COVID as well, the late Queen Elizabeth II paid an act of remembrance here as well. It's one of the standout moments or pictures from from that covid era of the pandemic where she came to pay her respects here and most recently i remember the japanese emperor and empress came to lay a wreath here and to to see this pay their respects really to commemorate all those who've lost their lives that centenary you mentioned of the queen marking the centenary in 2020 yeah the grave of the unknown warrior in 2020 of course during the pandemic i was here for that moment with the queen with the late queen and it was one of the most moving days i can remember doing this job. It was in November 2020 and it was the first time the Queen had actually left Windsor

since the outbreak of the pandemic in March 2020. Left the bubble. The Queen felt that marking the centenary was so important she couldn't be missed. So special protocols were put in place and the Queen came on her own here with the Dean, with her equerry, with her piper. and we stood around the grave of the unknown warrior and she had a replica of her wedding bouquet from 1947 made up and her aquari laid it on the grave

as she stood here all in black yeah we saw her mask for the first time and her piper played a lament from up there from the choir screen and it was incredibly moving and actually now just remembering it sort of the hair's got my arms still the acoustics of this place are extraordinary it was probably picking up some of that as you listen to this actually with the people the hubbub in the background it was a very moving moment and one of the one of the images from the pandemic and one of the images from the queen's reign that i remember it was very humbling wasn't it yeah i think she was it was a it was a it was an extraordinary moment to witness and again a reminder of the importance that the royal family and the monarch places on remembrance and the

abbey i think that the fact that this is a place where the great and the good are buried. You know, we've talked about all those big names. We talked about the kings, the queens, you know, those leading poets and scientists, all those big names that are buried here and commemorated here. This commemoration here, as it says it all really, says they buried him among the kings because he had done good towards God and toward his house. In Christ shall all be made alive. I think that's a very powerful, fittingly moving way to end what has been quite an historic episode, Kate. It has. It's been a real pleasure to be here. A little walk through history.