The Royals with Roya and Kate - The Royals pay tribute to Pope Francis

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Following the death of Pope Francis, King Charles gave a warm message in tribute. Meanwhile, Prince Andrew made a surprise reappearance for the Easter Sunday service at Windsor Castle and Meghan opened up about her rebrand. Lots to chew over then for The Sunday Times Media Editor, Rosamund Urwin, who joined Roya this week while Kate is away. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Morgan from Off the Shelf and I'm here to tell you how my Google Pixel 9 helps me read more. Google actually gifted me this phone and now I use it non-stop. The other day, I was trying to remember the name of this book someone recommended and instead of spiraling into a 40 minute social media scroll, I just asked Gemini on my Pixel. What's that romantic book with a competition and a ghost helping her through the trials. It's like having that one friend who always knows what you're talking about. Learn more about the Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com. Hello and welcome to The Royals with me, Roya, and today, not Kate, because Kate's taking a well-deserved break. So this week, I'm joined by The Sunday Times' media editor, Rosamund

Irwin. Ros, hello and thank you so much for joining us this week. Thank you so much for having me. Now, you've got a bit of a royal warrant going on, haven't you? Because you've met the King and Queen. I have. I have only once, I should add. Just put it off. Okay, so I do have a tiny, tiny... I had a short meeting with them when they came into...

I used to work at the Evening Standard, the King and Queen, then obviously not the King and Queen in that stage, they came in to talk to staff. And actually I spoke to Camilla about, she was very impressive. I mean, she really does care very much about women's issues and weirdly, we spoke about FGM. Yeah. But she obviously, and this was quite far ahead of it being a

more mainstream conversation, so that was bold of her. She can be punchy when she wants to be with the causes she chooses. And in terms of how people might wonder how you and I work together sometimes, because we do, don't we? Yes, we do. Yeah, yeah. I like a Roya-Roz. How does a Roya-Roz mashup roll? How does the royal and media stuff roll, do you think? I think we... They overlap quite a lot, don't they? Yeah, they do.

I suppose a lot of the trickiness for the Royal Roars comes from media coverage, doesn't it? Yes, it does. A lot of the difficult part for them to manage. And sometimes that relationship is obviously friendly and sometimes it's less friendly, isn't it? Sometimes it's friendly foe and sometimes it's friction foe. Yeah, yeah I think that's right. Well it's always a joy to work with you and it's lovely to have you on this week so

thank you for coming on. Now, events this week are overshadowed by the death of Pope Francis which really has been leading the news all week. We saw him make an appearance at the Vatican on Easter Sunday and just a couple of weeks before Kate and I were in Rome where we didn't have the state visit to the Holy See which we were supposed to have because he was just out of hospital and recovering. But the King and Queen did get to meet him privately for a quick 20 minute meeting despite his old house. And that moment I think seems quite poignant now given what, I mean they were really sort

of among the last big public figures to meet with him. Yes and obviously he's been very unwell. And he's been very unwell. We have the funeral coming up. I know it's something that you're particularly interested in and have quite a lot of thoughts on because you are Catholic aren't you? I am Catholic, yeah. So in terms of a pope dying and all the sort of events of state that go around with it because it's been quite interesting as a royal editor to sit back and watch that and kind of compare it to the only funeral I've worked on which was well of a monarch, the late Queen Elizabeth did Prince Philip's. Talk to us

a little bit about how they compare and the rituals. Well I was thinking that actually we're already seeing a quite profound difference in that obviously the Queen does lie in state, but in a coffin, and with obviously a flag over the top. And we see the Pope. I suppose that's a pretty Catholic thing. Why do we see the Pope in the lying in state? Why is that so different to Queen Elizabeth? I think there's two things. Culture and tradition. I mean, my family originally, well, part of my family originally Irish, and obviously there's a tradition in Ireland of seeing bodies and that's a very Catholic thing isn't it? I also think British

people are a little bit squeamish about such things I would say. I don't know when, I don't know if we changed that. Did we use historically to see, so we've never seen the King's or Queen's bodies. The one thing that they have done that's sort of similar which I've noticed was massively underestimated the turnout. Yes, absolutely. So the queue yesterday for the Vatican to see the Pope lying in state was eight hours. And originally yesterday, the Vatican was saying they were going to close it at midnight. But I woke up this morning to headlines that it's been open all night. Yes, that's right.

And that was similar to when the Queen died and when Queen Elizabeth the Queen mother died, they hugely underestimated how many people would come and see them. Well, I think that's quite interesting, isn't it? Because I suppose people want to feel like a part of history. That's part of it. People want to pay their respects. These are people. Actually, there's a parallel, isn't there?

People who've given a huge amount of service to the country or in this case, you know, to the 1.4 billion Catholics in the world. So I get that instinct. I mean, I'd really quite like to have been there in Rome. Obviously I'm working, so it's not possible. But I do get that feeling. I have gone to see the Pope speak before in Rome when I was last there.

And actually I also went to see Pope John Paul II when I was still a student. We went to hear him speak. And actually he was towards the end of his life. I think he died in 2005. He did. So I went in about 2003, so by then he was ailing as well. So I have seen, I've never got up close to a pope, but I've seen both of them speak. And I think with it people want to feel, there's a sense of belonging, isn't there? A sense of being part of something, obviously the primary thing of paying a respect.

I think as well, lots of people went after work, didn't they? Because they sort of feel this is something you've got to show at a finite time. It's a moment of history. It's a moment of history. You can be part of it. The great strides he took were in showing that you can be pope and be humble and be a man of the poor for the poor. That theme, his humility and the work he did for the poor was included in the King's message.

Yes, absolutely. So the message that the King put out when we learned that he had died on Monday, it talked about how special it had been to see him so recently and how it paid tribute to the work that he did for the underrepresented, the poor, minorities, immigrants. And actually we were told this week that when Charles had his audience, his weekly audience with Keir Starmer, the Pope was a huge topic of conversation, them both reflecting on his life with each other during the weekly audience. Although we didn't have the state visit to the Holy See that we were all hoping for, so we didn't get to go to the Vatican, when Charles and Camilla did go and see him for

20 minutes, on their wedding anniversary, and the Pope wished them a happy 20th wedding anniversary, when we came off that trip, we had a briefing with the palace who told us that of the whole visit, really for the couple, personally wise, that was the highlight of the trip from that sort of off the official program. It was very special for them to see him. I'm sure they would have known probably one last time. Yeah. And they have that photograph of them meeting the pope.

And although the king isn't going to the funeral, and there's a lot of people are like, why is the king not going to Rome? He's the king. Now, there's an interesting protocol issue there which is unique to this country really because a lot of international heads of state and a lot of you know King Felipe and Queen Leticia and European roles are all going. But lots of them are in Catholic countries. They are but technically the Prince William is going on to represent his father, and that's on government advice,

because there is a protocol here. The government advice is that British monarchs don't traditionally attend funerals in foreign countries. It just is. So it's nothing to do with the king being too unwell or boosting William as a statesman, although we are seeing him do more and more of that. That is protocol. And you might remember when Pope John Paul II died. Charles went. Charles went to represent the Queen, which then shifted his wedding date. He had to change

his wedding date to Camilla because of the Pope's union. So that is that protocol. And is it because they worry it sort of takes attention away or is it just... There doesn't seem to be a sort of explanation for it. It's just one of those things that historically has... Because I don't think the king going would take more attention than Donald Trump going. No. I mean, Trump was actually the first person who said, I'm going, wasn't he? Within minutes of the Pope's death, he's like, I'm there.

Yes, but there was also the very, well, unfortunately amusing thing where he gave a speech on the balcony with a giant bunny for Easter next to him. That was quite weird. Yes, yes. It was, I mean, I thought both the King and Kirste Amma put out very good, well thought out statements and then we sort of jumped next to that. And it perhaps didn't quite set the tone that you might want in that situation. Different kind of tone.

The other thing with Francis, of course, is that while for Catholics like me, he is a great hero and a great inspiration and exactly what we had always dreamed of in a pope, he is a divisive figure for the Catholic Church. And the Catholic Church, you know, there are conservatives within it for whom he was a very, he was a difficult pill to swallow. Reformer. Yes, yes, he's progressive. It's very strange because in the coverage this week, the BBC published something straight away and I have to say, as a Catholic, you're always saying

the media in this country is not amazing in its coverage. The BBC put something out straight away calling Pope Francis traditional. He is not traditional by any stretch. He's progressive within the realm of it being the Catholic Church. And I think that's probably one of the reasons why Charles has had such respect for him. Because Charles as Prince of Wales was seen as very progressive. Yes, absolutely. And not a disruptor, but someone liberal-leaning. Well, there's a meeting of minds on issues like climate change as well.

Huge. So Pope Francis, hugely sort of pro-campaigning on climate. You know, he wrote huge documents about it. That is something that you can imagine in all their meetings. Charles and the Pope spoke a lot about the King being a huge environmentalist and the Pope as well. And I think also for the Pope, one of the issues is that climate change will disproportionately affect the global south and the poor. And he is a Pope from the global south and obviously the first ever. And obviously somebody who has believed that his mission, particularly,

he's the first Jesuit Pope, something that already talked about again in the British media. That's a really big deal in the Catholic Church. The Jesuits were not traditionally, they were sort of always viewed as a little bit of suspicion by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. I suspect we won't get a second Jesuit Pope, possibly not in my lifetime, but it would be highly unlikely that we get that his successor is a Jesuit. So I think that's, I think yes, you can see there are certainly, definitely things that are aligned between the two of them in terms of what they care about. Meeting in the mines, I think those two. Anyway, well William will be there in Rome on Saturday representing the King without the Princess of Wales.

She won't be travelling with him but William will be going. So here in the UK, cast ourselves back to a few days ago, we saw the traditional Easter Sunday service last week at Windsor Castle and there was a newsworthy attendee with the King and Queen and the rest of the Royal Family, Ros. It was the return, he was risen, of Prince Andrew. Yes, it's not such a great reappearance. Less spotted these days. We hadn't seen Andrew for quite a long time. We didn't see him at Christmas because even though he had been re-enrighted to Christmas for the last few years, well he'd been always been there but he'd been re-enrighted to sort of walk with the family to church for the last couple of years.

Was he being asked to use the entrance at the back or something? Well previously after the Newsnight interview he did spend Christmases with the Queen at Sandringham but he wasn't allowed to walk with her and the rest of the family to St Mary's Church. Now, at Rain Change, the King's view was, it's a family event, he can walk with us. But, last Christmas, there was an alleged Chinese spy that reappeared hanging out with Andrew, and so that would have been seen as a distraction, so he didn't even go to Sandringham but come Easter Sunday there he was at St. George's Chapel in Windsor to the surprise of I would say a lot of royal watchers not only for him being there after all the distractions of what's

been going on around him and that's still swirling I mean there's still so much coming out from court documents about and witness statements from Dominic Hampshire this guy who was working with Prince Andrew and liaising with Yang Tembo, the alleged Chinese spy who insists he isn't a Chinese spy. But anyway, there was Andrew and he was very confidently sort of stomping to the front of the queue and you know dodging the Dean of Windsor and in he went kind of before a few other royals. I don't know, you know, there was inevitable coverage. I wonder if, when you look at that, you and I talked about Prince Andrew Fairmount.

Yes, we have. He's given us plenty to talk about. He's given us plenty to talk about around the water cooler. What do you make of that when you see him? As someone who's sort of- I suppose, I think he's an example of where you need really good crisis comms. Yes, media editor.

Yeah, I mean, that's where I think the place for all that is, good crisis comms. Yes, media editor. That's where I think the place for all that is, journalists don't necessarily always love working with crisis communications people because they tend to be trying to cover up something, don't they? They tend to be trying to stop you running things and writing things that they don't want to appear in the media. But sometimes the thing is sort of gushing out and there's a way to handle it. You can sometimes kind of obviously get on the front foot.

Of course, the irony is that Prince Andrew was trying to get on the front foot with that interview. Quite literally, yes. Interview with Emily Maitlis that went so badly. And so I think here it's difficult, isn't it? Because they're a family, ultimately. And we all have our awkward relatives. Yeah. What's interesting about that is there seems to be a distinction that Buckingham Palace say Andrew will be welcome at family events and this was a family event. That's

not really the case because Sandringham Christmas was a family event, that's not really the case. Because Sandringham Christmas was a family event. He was effectively banned from that. Trooping the Colour is seen as a family event. He never appears at that anymore. He's not on the balcony. And so there is this attempt to kind of navigate what he is and he isn't at. But I think the one thing everyone can agree on is whenever he does appear, it is a distraction from the rest of the family and what they're doing. That feels unfair, doesn't it? Because, I mean, for them, as in it's an inevitable

distraction. It feels unfair on other members of the Royal Family who are not causing bad headlines that he becomes the focus when they're... Well, he was a surprise attendee and then there was a surprise notable absence because William wasn't there, nor Kate or their children. They decided to spend the weekend as a family with their family and actually the Middletons up in Norfolk. There was quite a lot of discussion around that, a little bit of speculation on that, that William was swerving Prince Andrew, Uncle Andrew, doesn't like the optics of it. The Hanna sources insisting no no no it's because he

wants to spend it as a family and you know people oh, does that mean he's not going to church? No, he did go to church. He went to church up in Norfolk. I would say the ministry would be my sort of view. Given the year he's had, you know, his father still going through cancer treatment, his wife now in remission for cancer, I think when I spend time as a family, let them spend time as a family. Yeah, and they've got the kids of the age where they really, really enjoy Easter. Yeah.

I mean, this is the first year I've got a four-year-old. The first year my eldest son really enjoyed Easter. They go bananas for it. So there's a window, isn't there, where for children it's, you know, these drag hunters really fun. Yeah. And they're in that window, all three of them. So I think that's rather sweet.

I think so too. I suspect he didn't really want to hang out with Uncle Andrew either. I think also generationally, I just I think William's of, you know, he's a few years older than me. He's of a generation where Andrew, you know, he could the way he will see the problem of Andrew is different. 100%. He's thinking William is always thinking not just about the now, about the future, what kind of king I want to be. Am I the kind of future king who hung out with my uncle in public all the time? I think he chooses not to, if I'm honest, and that's his choice.

And he's got plenty of other family members who he probably really prefers to accompany. And also, he does know they're always at Sandringham and for Christmas the Middletons are, as much of his family, you know, as support to him and his wife and the family as the other side of his family. Hi, it's Morgan from Off the Shelf and I'm here to tell you how my Google Pixel 9 helps me read more. Google actually gifted me this phone and now I use it nonstop. The other day I was trying to remember the name of this book someone recommended and

instead of spiraling into a 40 minute social media scroll I just asked Gemini on my pixel. What's that romance-y book with a competition and a ghost helping her through the trials? The book you're likely thinking of is Phantasma by Kaylee Smith. Here's a breakdown of why it fits your description. It's like having that one friend who always knows what you're talking about. Learn more about the Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com. Now as I'm joined by Roz, our media editor on the Sunday Times, it would feel very remiss not to discuss branding, media, image. Who might all of this be perfectly encapsulated in but Megan the Duchess of Sussex? Yes, a very curated image.

You have written quite a lot about it actually. Yes I have, I've written quite a lot about it. I think I've written more about Harry and Meghan probably than any other royals. That's probably right. I have obviously written about Andrew too. Do you enjoy writing about Harry and Meghan? Ah, do you know what? I've really enjoyed Harry's book. I actually... It was a cracking read.

So, and I'm very pleased that I did get a story ahead of the book coming out on that, which was really, I remember that being a really difficult story to get. So I was very pleased because I got, you know, I found someone who'd read it. So yeah, yeah, I actually really enjoyed reading that book. So that was a moment where I suddenly thought, oh yeah, they, you know, they'd obviously got a brilliant ghost. He's a brilliant writer. I actually went and read his memoir. It's all about fathers and sons. Yes.

It's very interesting that. Yes. He's got a much more absent father and a much more, you know, a very difficult relationship with his father. So, yeah, no, I really enjoyed that. So there are moments. And sometimes it means I have to watch much of the Netflix series, The Mechamade, And that is maybe less enjoyable.

So there's been a lot of sort of media strategy around Megan. So we've had the new Netflix series with Love Megan, all about her sort of home, entertaining and cooking, which Kate and I have discussed endlessly. It feels like on this podcast, we've had a new podcast from her, Confessions of a Female Founder, which launched a couple of weeks ago. We've had the launch of her as ever brand of raspberry spread and edible flower petals.

Which sold really well. It sold out apparently. We didn't sort of know how much stock there was because you can't actually order it here. It can't be shipped to the UK sadly. So I can't buy you any raspberry spread, I'm afraid. And we've just had Meghan and Harry in New York. Meghan was at the Time 100 Summit and she was talking about her incredibly busy time as she described it and talking about

the fact that she doesn't go online. She says she says she doesn't look at social media to protect her mental health. Yeah, I mean look if... Do we believe that? No, but I think it's a noble ambition not to. I mean, it wouldn't be nice. Because she's on social media a lot. Yes, I mean, but the thing about Instagram, I find, is that, and look, I'm quite careful,

I have private settings, but I find Instagram is a lot less nasty than some other sites. But it's not for everybody, obviously. I mean, if you're somebody like her, you're going to get quite unpleasant comments there, too. But I think there is a sort of, it feels a friendlier site to a lot of people. So she's very heavily on Instagram now, isn't she, with her lifestyle? A lot. And she is embodying, I think, with what she's doing, the worst, one of the worst sort of portmanteau words ever created, a mumpreneur.

Wow. And that's her sort of schhtick isn't it? And I'm afraid if I get emails mentioning that word I just have to delete them straight away. I do not read them. I hate that word. You're right because let me let me read you what she said at the summit this week in New York. She said, I think as a working mum and again these are the three projects that we're all launching really at the same time. She's talking about what we just discussed. The behind the scenes for the past year and a half have been incredibly busy and ambitious. But to see

it all come to life and try to give yourself the space and the grace to make mistakes, to know that you're not going to get it right every day, and at the same time to prioritize what we're going to put out as our next tranche of skews is equally important to me as Archie losing his front tooth, which is about to happen. And I just hope we're back at home in time for it. That's all that matters. So she is skews next time. She skews. What does that mean? I don't know. That's a bit word salad. Salad. Well, we know she likes she likes her word salad.

She has confessed a bit of word salad this week. Hasn't she? American Riviera Orchard. Is that right? I sort of feel you could put any of those words in any order. The original name for the original launch of... Has ever. But then it sort of disappeared and was rebranded as ever. And she's admitted this week in her latest episode of her podcast. I didn't love that. That was word salad.

Yeah. Well, I think she slides quite easily into jargon, doesn't she? That is one of her things. And sometimes it's that sort of holistic type jargon, you know, it's sort of about the wellness jargon, that's a better way of putting it. She slips into that quite easily. And then I think she's also slipping into this slightly brand jargon that comes out. What do you make of the rebrand? Because it has been a rebrand into a sort of Martha Stewart, Gwyneth Paltrow style. Yeah. I mean, look, I sort of think live and let live

about most things in life. I'm pretty much of that school. She's got to find something, hasn't she? I mean, I find it a bit sad. She was a fairly successful actress. I mean, Suits was a massive hit. I find it a bit sad that she doesn't think she has a path back into acting.

Obviously, it is always hard. I mean, I've got friends who are older female, older actresses and you know the industry can be brutal to older women. I think anyone would hire her just for the publicity she brings to projects. Exactly, of course. Exactly. And you know there are things she can do within their industry. Obviously a lot of actresses move into producing. So there are other options but when they've done that it's been very still focused on them and what's been successful has been the most focused on them, parts of it. So all of their Netflix projects, the ones that have been hits have been the ones

that are much more the brand is them. And so, you know, when they've done the Polo thing, you know, did anyone really watch that? I can't imagine it did particularly well. It didn't fly. You know, it didn't get it didn't get the sort of pickup because they were only in it for about 10 seconds or two minutes two minutes or whatever. So I think the difficulty is they sort of come back to knowing what sells to them and unfortunately it's themselves and that's quite a difficult thing I think. Because they've said they want to step back from the sort of tell all. We had the Netflix six parter which was tell all. We had Spare which was beyond tell all. We had theare, which was beyond tell all. We had the Oprah

interview, which was tell, tell, tell all. So if you're then going to step back and try and market something else, and to be fair with Love, Megan is it's not tell all, but it's a lot of her. It's, you know, taking the viewers into her little bit of her life. But you're right. People want, you know, they want to kind of get inside the Harry, Megan world and see more of that and hear more of that. And we've got a second Netflix series coming. Yes. Which I think they were actually recorded back then.

They have already recorded it. So, yeah, it's not Netflix doubling down because it's already been done. It's already been done. Well, we look forward to that second series, Ross. Do we? Now, Meghan was talking about Archie about to lose his first tooth and she hopes she's at home for that. We've seen another toothless, gappy grin this week from little Prince Louis who turned seven this week and Kensington Palace put out a very sweet new picture of

him taken up in Norfolk earlier this month with Bluebell Woods behind him in a very big grin, no teeth here, looking very sweet. But later after putting that picture out, what they put out was a behind the scenes video where the Prince Louis that we love and we know that we used to, the high jinx Prince Louis, there he was, scampering around, jumping off a log, talking to the photographer Josh Schinner and the social media team at KP who recorded it.

And I was very pleased to see that because in the picture he looks sweet and quite prim and very grown up actually. Slightly like, I worried with the photo slightly that we'd lost the kind of high-jinks, scampy Prince Louis. But then when we saw the video, he was all there. He's got youngest child energy. I'm a youngest child. I do understand. Definitely does. Is there sort of no role left here except to be the naughty one I think when you're the youngest quite often. He definitely does. Is there sort of no role left here except to be the naughty one I think when you're the youngest quite often.

You definitely does. You've got your sensible older siblings and then, but you're always... And then the lady boss, Princess Charlotte, who's always bossing him around on state occasions. Yeah, yeah. And I think you slide into everyone claiming always that you're the favorite, which you never think is true, I think. And at the same time, you sort of try always to keep up with your siblings if you're the youngest. You know, you always want to be doing what they're doing. Well, I long live Prince Louis' high jinks because I rely on them every year for Trooping the Colour.

I'm always covering Trooping the Colour, obviously on a Saturday for the Sunday Times. And I live for his trying to open a window, his misbehaving because it just gives us great headlines, great pictures. Yes, yes. The other thing I was thinking with these photos, my embarrassing photos, my mother gave my sister, brother and me all these unfortunate sort of pudding bowl haircuts. Basically the same haircut for the three of us. And thankfully no one will ever see those photos. But for him, if your parent never gives you a dodgy hair colour, it is, you know, forever more. I know. Yeah.

And that's hard on a child in all seriousness. I'm making a joke of it. But actually, that level of scrutiny. Every year for all three of them. What exactly, and if you go through an awkward teenage phase, as again, many children do, you know, that level of scrutiny is difficult. Now, obviously, they're in an immensely privileged position and there are many wonderful things that comes with it,

but there are also downsides. And I do think, you know, I would feel very uncomfortable. I think, you know, yeah, as a sort of 14-year-old, you know, you've got spots or whatever it is, you know, you can imagine that being quite excruciating. Yeah, I mean, they are, it's the goldfish bowl of the royal family. Yeah.

One little bit of extra business to discuss is we have the battle of the state visits coming up. I did a story last weekend with Harry York, our great deputy political editor, that President Macron of France is coming quite soon for a state visit. So we went to France a couple of years ago with the King and Queen for a state visit. It should have been their first state visit in early 2023, but it got postponed because of the riots over Macron's pension reform. So we ended up going to Germany first. We went to Paris and Bordeaux. It was very lovely, very jolly, proper love and romance with Emmanuel and Charles and Brigitte and

Queen. Anyway, they're coming here quite soon. And that's quite interesting because it sort of shows what the government thinking in terms of a lot of discussion around will Kirstama make a decision between Europe and America. Donald Trump's been bigging out the fact he's coming in September. It's not a state visit as things stand. It's hanging out with Charles. Donald Trump has described it as a fest. I don't know how they're going to make it better than the last one.

It's going to be a kind of fest. Yeah. But Macron's getting in there first. What do you make of that? I think it's quite telling about what well, one, we are they still feel we're far closer aligned with, you know, despite Brexit. You know, the biggest trading bloc is Europe. Man in Macron is the gateway, isn't he, into the EU in these terms. And so, and obviously, I think there's a more closer alignment of personality here too. You're right. Macron is capable of being very charming. He's very, I mean, he's able to talk about

philosophy in a way that, you know, in his second language, in a way you don't hear many British politicians talking about, for example, and so, and obviously he's an incredibly intelligent, I know he's not popular in France at the moment, he's an incredibly intelligent politician. I mean, what he has done in France is remarkable. I studied French politics at university. I mean, to break that two sort of party system as it effectively was, you know, he caused a revolution, but it's a centrist revolution.

It's so different from what is elsewhere in the world at the moment. Now, obviously, his polling is not pretty. But he's an extraordinary politician and an interesting man. He gets on very well with Charles. They chat a lot on the phone. And he's been a very, like the Pope, very outspoken supporter of environmental campaigning and climate change and work on climate change, very outspoken on on Charles's work there. And yeah, I think that'll be a great state visit, actually. I think it'll be it'll be all the bells and whistles pulled out. It'll be a very fancy state banquet. And then Donald Trump will get a fest. Yeah, yeah, which he will claim to be bigger than anything else. Bigger crowds don't possibly

protest as Donald Trump. Well, I think one of the stories you and I did do, didn't he land his helicopters on Queen Elizabeth's lawn? It was a cracking story, Rose. Yeah, it was. It was. It was. That was a good story, wasn't it?

It was a great tip. And she was not very happy about that. She was fuming. Yeah. So for listeners, I think we might have touched on this in a previous article, but let's recount it again because it was a Ros and Roya mashup. So when Donald Trump came for the state visit in 2019, so he came for a working visit to

Windsor in 2018, then he came for the state visit the following year, because there were, he was such a divisive figure at the time, not much has changed, there were huge protests planned in London. He was aware of this. Sadiq Khan said he wasn't going to do anything to stop them. Donald Trump got extremely annoyed about this. And so instead of driving in and out of Buckingham Palace from Wingfield House in Regent's Park where he was staying, the ambassador's residence, instead of driving in and out in the Beast,

the big, you know, President's car that all most previous American presidents had driven in and out of, he flew from Wingfield House in a helicopter to Buckingham Palace. Then he flew back in the morning after the arrival. An environmental catastrophe. Then in the evening he flew back in for the state banquet and then he flew back out four times in a day. And a few weeks later the then Prime Minister of Australia came to the UK on official business and had an audience with the Queen. And after

his audience with the Queen, she frog marched him to the front, opened the windows and went, look what he's done to my lawns. He's scorched my lawns. That is brilliant. And he had, his helicopter had scorched the Queen's lawns. And I remember, it was your tips, great tip. I remember ringing in the palace and saying, listen, I've got to run something by you. And there was no objection. There was not even an attempt to dissuade me. So clearly the Queen had told not just the Australian Prime Minister, quite a lot of people about that.

She was fuming. That was a good story. That was very good. It was a great one. Anyway, on that note, let's see what chaos and what other things Donald Trump can scorch when he comes for his fest in September. Until then, Roz, thank you so much for joining us.

I'm Roz. Thank you for having me. It's been a joy. Hi, it's Morgan from Off the Shelf and I'm here to tell you how my Google Pixel 9 helps me read more. Google actually gifted me this phone, and now I use it nonstop. The other day I was trying to remember the name of this book someone recommended, and instead of spiraling into a 40 minute social media scroll, I just asked Gemini on my Pixel. What's that romantic book with a competition and a ghost helping her through the trials?

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