The Royals with Roya and Kate - Why Harry and Meghan face a school and security crisis

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Why have Harry and Meghan moved Archie and Lilibet from their new school after just two days? Roya Nikkhah and Kate Mansey reveal what prompted the decision, how security concerns are disrupting the Sussexes’ new life in Britain, and whether the upheaval could strengthen Prince Harry’s case for greater protection.They also examine Harry’s packed programme of public appearances, Meghan’s plans to renew her charitable work, and whether the couple are building a rival public operation to the royal family. Plus, they discuss the extraordinary Palace letter clarifying that the Sussexes do not represent the King — and the remarkable intervention over Uganda’s withdrawal from the Invictus Games.If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to press follow at the top of your podcast app.Can Harry and Meghan remain prominent “public figures” without coming into conflict with the royal family? Get in touch: [e-mail] us on YouTube.Read more: Harry and Meghan change Archie and Lilibet's school over security concernsFurther listening: Can Harry and Meghan really be 'private' royals in the UK?Producer: Robert WallaceVideo Producer: Eve ChadbournExecutive Producer: Tim WalklateImage: Getty Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to the Royals, the podcast where we discuss what happens behind the palace walls and why it matters. I'm Roy Nika. And I'm Kate Manzi. Why have Harry and Meghan moved Archie and Lilibet from their new school just two days after they started? Well, the couple say their security team raised serious concerns about their new set-up. It's a dramatic early disruption to their new life in Britain. and a reminder of the challenges that come with such a high public profile. It comes just days after Harry announced a packed programme of public appearances

from charity garters to school visits, while Megan also considers renewing her charitable work here. And all this follows a major palace intervention after the Lord Chamberlain formally restated that the Sussexes do not represent the king. So why has the crown drawn the line? line now. And why do Harry and Megan prefer to be called public figures than private citizens? And can the Sussexes build a new public life in Britain without coming into collision with the palace? Well, in Sussex land, Kate, it's been a busy old time, hasn't it?

It has rather. Yeah, there's always something turning on the news agenda with the Sussexes. I mean, we've got a packed, packed agenda to discuss today because since we last sat down together, so much has happened with Harry and Megan that's caused huge amounts of quite controversial coverage. But in the last 48 hours or so, we've had a very dramatic movement on Archie and Lily's school. We were told they'd just enrolled in school, I think, you know, last week. What's happened? What's the drama surrounding that now? We were talking last time we met, weren't we, about Prince George and Eton and all the care of. consideration that went into choosing that school and him starting there and feeling settled. This week we've had Archie and Lilibet starting in their new school in the UK and a dramatic

U-turn where they've been taken out after just two days in that school. They're going to go to a different school. Now we've been told it's over security concerns about the convoy going to school to drop them off and sitting in traffic. Perhaps they hadn't carried out the proper Recky over summer or certainly the traffic. does increase in September. And they were sitting in traffic on the way to school. The security team wasn't happy about it.

And so this huge shift after just two days starting a new school, new uniform, new routine. Those two children, age seven and five, now going to be taken out. And we're told us starting in a new school. Well, the Sussexes did say the decision for the children to move school was taken following a discussion with the family's security team about the practicalities of their current arrangements. The parents, Megan and Harry, remain extremely grateful to all the teachers and staff for their love, care and support they've shown their family. This decision should in no way be interpreted as a reflection on the school or the exceptional care the children have

received there. So they're saying, not to do with the school, very much putting the focus onto their security and all the conversations around that. Well, of course, this has been a discussion that's been going on with Harry, hasn't it, for years? He's been five. He's been five. He's been to have that UK police security reinstated. We talk about it almost every episode, don't we? I mean, I suppose the question now is where do you think that this intervention or this change has moved the dial on that security decision, that security argument from Harry? Well, he will hope it has because we've also learned in the last few days that Harry and Megan are

finally having a Ravik review, aren't they? Ravik being the board at the home office that assesses the risk against the couple and whether or not they should have enhanced security or security reinstated here. He's been pushing for years to have a review. We were told that a review was being done over the summer, but that was based on the fact that they lived in America. We've also learned in the last day or so that Ravec were not aware of Harry Megan's plans to come back and live in the UK.

Now that they've moved back, in the last few days, it's been confirmed they are looking at it. I mean, Harry, we know what Harry wants. He wants full-blown, taxpayer-funded, police protection, are police protection reinstated? Will all these issues around the children's security on the school run make a difference? I suspect Weavik will have to take that into consideration looking at the risks against them. Do I think, you know, all this information coming out about pulling the children out of school, moving them, the issues around the security, all of that we were told that the car got separated from the security car?

Is that adding to the children's security, the request of privacy that we all got from Team Sussex before they started, you know, a letter went to all the editors, you know, saying please protect our privacy, please protect the privacy of the school, it's a lot more retention on them, isn't it? Well, yeah, I mean, I've always been told by people in and around Westminster and the Palace, you know, when they're talking about security surrounding politicians, for example, or members of the royal family or any other celebrities, VIPs and whatnot. The advice is always, don't talk about your own security, rule number one. I mean, a cynic might say, this comes at interesting timing. You know, Harry's always said the UK's far too dangerous for him to bring his children back here. So it was a bit of a surprise when.

in summer he announced family was returning to live in the UK, despite the fact their security status at that stage hadn't changed. Now we have Ravek saying, okay, there's going to be a risk management board set up for Megan and Harry to look again at your security, something he's been wanting, as you say, for months. They've made it very, very public that they were moving the children after just two days.

If you were moving your children's school, why would there be a need to let that be known publicly? because there was a security risk to you. Wouldn't you just do that privately? You've put the children front and centre of that argument with Ravec. Well, that's what a cynic might say. I thought the response from the school was interesting. So the response from the school, according to ICV News,

who've been doing quite a lot around this, was it the school that Harry and Megan pulled the children out of, which they were at pains to say, it's no reflection on the school, they've had amazing care there before the two days they were there. Sources at the school, so they were very relieved that the children had been pulled out of the school. Well, we talked to it, didn't we, the other week about Eton and the security around having a BIP child in your midst.

And the schools really do have to be set up to have that security. It's not really fair on the school if they're not set up for that. The very fact, though, that we know about this, that we have been briefed on this from Harry's people, I think just goes to show that he is not going to let up on the security issue. I mean, I think he puts it on a par with his relationship with his father, doesn't he? He wants his family protected, above and beyond anything else, and he will not rest until he gets it. Whether or not he gets it is another question. Well, that's it.

I mean, I think you've hit the nail on the head being briefed by the Sussex's team. They want that information out there. There's a really interesting line, a source told the sun, and I thought that was quite telling, saying, you can't have the fifth, sixth and seventh in line to the throne stuck in a trapped car in traffic. because of course what they don't have with the hired private security is that ability to blue light their way through traffic germs, which is what they would have if they had the police security. But it was also, to my mind, that's the kind of that phraseology is a reminder of Harry's status.

I will come on to it later about status being public, wanting to be public figures rather than private citizens and that desire to have not just the security, but the status and perhaps the status recognized in order to get the security. I don't know. but it's certainly been a kind of a long running battle, hasn't it? It has. Security aside, because that's going to continue to rumble, I'm absolutely sure as that review happens. We've had Harry and Megan back. They haven't been spotted in public. We've had one photo of Harry at Tower Bridge recording studios signing a wall. We don't know what he was doing there recording something, obviously. But we are going to start seeing a lot more of him and possibly Megan from this week.

We are going to see Harry's announced his with quite a lot of fanfare. this operational note that came from his team calling them, and this was new, the September public engagements, not private engagements, public engagements. And there's a series of them he's going to be doing a new award ceremony for the Invictus Games. We're going to see him next week at the Wellchild Awards. We're going to see him up in Birmingham, doing more Invictus-related things with schoolchildren. There's a lot going on. This is the re-emergence of Harry on UK soil doing what he used to do.

and he'll be doing it. We know very well. Lots of smiles, lots of kids, lots of hugs. What do you make of it all? It's a pseudo-royal engagement schedule that he set out. He talks about going back to the US as well. He's going to be with Bill and Hillary Clinton, an event at the UN,

similar event he went to in 2024. So this is him setting at his store saying, I'm not going anywhere. He is going to be doing, by all accounts, they look like royal engagements. You know, he's going to be putting out what he's doing, telling the press. There's going to be photo opportunities, for example, at Well Child. We'll see Harry doing what he does best, chatting to children and really kind of shining a light on some of those causes close to his heart.

But, you know, make no mistake, this is him back, essentially, in the royal fault. It was described to me as the kind of a satellite royal. He's kind of orbiting the work that goes on in the palace and aping it, really. I mean, he's never really wanted to go away. This is the kind of the tragedy at the heart of Harry's departure from the royal family in my mind that he never really did want to leave. And this is him trying to get back to do what he does in his own way, on his own terms. And if only, they could recognise that and give him the security and status that he requires.

How do you think this is going to play out? I think to be fair to Harry, these engagements are the kind of engagements he has been doing for the last six years since he left. So well, child, he has. He's come back, you know, in the last few years and done lots of Invictus Games events. And when he's done them, he's had members of the media there covering them, pulling the coverage, same broadcasters, royal reporters, photographers. And we can get onto the media. Well, we will. I think the issue now is because the palace and the public know that he is back for good or at least for now, it's not just him coming in doing two engagements and going back to America for six months.

This is the beginning of probably a quite full. Well, I know a very full programme of engagements between now and the Invictus Games next summer. So we're like, you know, we could be seeing him out and about every week doing these engagements. And that's not what Buckingham Palace or the late queen or the current king or the next king factored in would be happening at Lassandringham's summit agreement when the terms of their exit was struck. They thought it might be, you know, he'd carry on doing his charitable work. He and Megan made that very clear. But what the king and the queen and William didn't expect was that to be on their doorstep. rubbing up alongside the engagements that they're doing

because we know this week very important summit up in Scotland an AI summit the King is hosting with all the tech bros coming over to discuss the dangers of AI. William McKay in the Isle of Butte. William and Kate are going to be in Scotland in the Isle of Butte. We are also going to have Harry doing a very high-profile engagement. And that is probably the start

of what the next few months are going to look like and the palace and the principals won't like it. It's competition. Well, look, they said you can't be half in, half out. This feels like he's fully in, but it's not just him, is it? Megan, too. So there was one of your reports talking about her plan. So tell us a bit what she's got coming down the pipeline in terms of her charity work. Well, it was really interesting because there's been a lot of emphasis placed on they're just trying to settle the children into school. They're still unpacking

you know, boxes in the cots was where they're living. Now resettling the children into school. Resettling the children back into school. But that process is now fully underway. So once the children are in their new school and they've got a routine going, you know, what does Megan do here? We know she's going to continue doing her as ever lifestyle brand, but what will she do day and day out? And I was told that she's very keen to rekindle her relationships with charities, basically her old patronages. And one of those where she's never stopped working with, but she's just done more in the background privately, is Smart Works, which is a wonderful initiative, which provides clothing and interviews and training to unemployed women back into employment.

It's a fantastic charity. It was one of four patronages she took on after she got married. It's the only one she retained. And what I was told by people close to her was that she's very keen to take up working with smart works in a much more visible, prominent, meaningful way. She's also looking at other charities she used to work with and new charities, new organisations. And that just means you're going to have the Duch of Sussex. like the Duke, like Harry, probably with a raft of new engagements, new organisation she works

with and a public programme, royal engagements. Royal engagements as the Duchess of Sussex now, not using the HRAH title, but does that matter? They seem royal still. It doesn't match to the charities. I mean, smart works are delighted at the prospect of her being back here and, you know, turning up to an engagement with women and talking through their wardrobe and training. You know that's going to get a ton of press. It just will.

I think the problem for Harry Megan will be the more that they do that kind of work and the more attention it gets and the more it's just going to rub up I think the king and William and the household in the wrong way because that phrase wasn't it the Sandringham Summit, everything they do

needs to uphold the values of her majesty's queen, her late majesty. There will be a feeling that this is bending the rules of the Sandringham Summit. Coming up, the king and queen out on engagement, William and Catherine out on engagements, Harry, possibly with Megan, outer engagements all being... On the same time, at the same date.

I heard that really, really, really annoyed members of the royal household. Now, there's also an interesting line in your article about the way in which they're going to use the media. You know, Harry, for ages, railed against the kind of Royal Rotar Agreement where journalists would be invited along and then share copy out so that everybody would know what those royal engagements were like, what was said. even in a small room where you couldn't get the world's press into one room there would be a journalist

there who would be able to report back now Harry railed against that system didn't he and he's also said time and time again he didn't like the kind

of briefing of unnamed sources well we've seen no end of that from his camp this week so what does he imagine going forwards because to my mind

the way it looks it looks very similar the whole thing even you know the announcement of what he's planning to do in his September engagements calling them engagements,

it looks very much like it's taken out of the palace playbook. What's his plan? Well, I found that one of the most interesting bits of those conversations around Harry's future plans because I was told that they would be looking at a new media framework

to cover their engagements. But what does that mean? But actually... More publicity for him. Well, I think just a more established way of doing things, it's been quite ad hoc in the last couple of years when they've come back.

They've got reporters who, you know, have done the most recent favorable story to them and a photographer. and a broadcaster. When I did that piece a couple of weeks ago, I looked back at that extraordinary website, Sussex Royal, that Harry and Megan produced just after they announced

they were leaving the Royal Family as Working Royals in 2020. So I look back at it. It is extraordinary now to look back at that website. It still exists. And it goes through all their terms of engagement going forward. It rails against elements of the royal family. It rails against the media. But crucially, there's a whole section on the Royal Rota.

Now, to our listeners and viewers, the Royal Rota is a group of national print reporters, broadcasters, national broadcasters and photographers who, as you say, cover engagements and then pull it out to the others. And there's a very particular section on the Royal Rota on this Sussex Royal website that rails against them, says why they think it's unfair. They then very clearly says,

we will no longer participate in the Royal Rota system. Okay, fine. Looking at how the engagements that Harry and possibly Megan, if she joins him for any of these engagements, are functioning, much like the Royal Rotar. It's a lot like it. There are rotor reporters covering the engagements, which we pulled out to us.

There are rotor photographers and there are national broadcasters at each engagement. That effectively is the Royal Rotar. And so you have this week... They've seen the benefit of the Royal Rotar, but they'll just call it something different. The King and Queen out on engagements, because the Queen's out on engagements this week too. William and Catherine out on engagements. Harry, possibly with Megan, out on engagements. On the same time, at the same date.

Royal Rotar coverage. I heard that really, really, really annoyed members of the Royal Household, the suggestion that an alternative Royal Rotar was going to be covering their engagements. And the Lord Chamberlain's letter that followed was very notable, wasn't it? Yes. Well, this is it, isn't it? I think this was the kind of let's stop the kind of mission creep of the Sussex. That's how I took it to be. So this was the letter written by Lord Chamberlain, Lord Benin,

which were sent out to we were told stakeholders. essentially military officials, government officials, a select number, for them to then cascade down, I love the corporate speak, to their teams and say, just a heads up, just a reminder, just to avoid any confusion, because apparently there had been some, the Palace was receiving phone calls, saying what are Harry and Megan doing back here? How do we address them? How do we address them?

How do we treat them? It was to say, just a reminder, nothing's changed. They're not to be known as HRH. They don't represent the king. They're not doing official duties here and they should be treated akin to private citizens. That sentence was a killer, wasn't it? In short, it began.

Who begins a sentence in short? It's so terse, isn't it? In quite a kind of a lengthy email. Just to, you know, really to underline the point akin to private citizens who might have commercial and charitable endeavours, essentially, saying they're just like any other VIP this letter was saying they are not official working members of the royal family.

And the really interesting thing about the letter was that it was sent at the direction of the king. And it even included that line. Lord Bennion is the head of the royal household. You know, it might be a bit disrespectful to call him a big cheese, but he is a big cheese. He's the boss, you know, and he navigates that line for the king. This came from Charles. This is Charles saying, let's just draw this little line around the Sussex is here and say, they're in that corner.

They're not here as part of the firm. If a Lord Lieutenant knows that they're opening a hospital in a particular region of the country, they are not to go and, you know, shake their hands, curtsy bow to them. What they're doing is very much separate. It is outside the Royal Farm. And the fact that Charles felt he needed to say that,

I suppose there's all the machinery around the Sussexes, which does look pseudo-royal, you know. The chain reaction before that letter and afterwards, I thought, was extraordinary. So tell me how the Sussex is reacting. Clearly, all the coverage before that letter was sent out around the return of Harry and Megan, the likelihood of public engagements,

the likelihood they'd be covered by an alternative royal rotor. And then we get this letter absolutely, and let's be honest, slapping down Harry and Megan, it was a slapdown from the palace to them going, back in your box, know your place. You're not on royal manoeuvres here. And then the response from Harry and Megan to that letter, well, they didn't hold back.

their spokesperson said they were surprised by the letter. And the reason they said they were surprised by letter was because we were then taken, briefed. Minute by minute. Minute by minute account of when they were alerted to the fact the letter was being sent out last week, the exact time, the exact time of when they were able to get hold of Harry and let him know because he was at the Tower Bridge Studios recording. Them then asking Pallas, have you already sent this out? The Pallas saying, I'm afraid we've already sent it out to the media. You can't make any changes in case you wanted to make it.

Because Team Tuskers were like, there are a few. few points here we don't agree with. We'd like to make some amendments. The notion that Harry and Megan's team thought they could make some amendments to a letter at the direction of the King. Just shows you why the letter was required in the first place. And we then found out that they had not been able to tell Harry about this letter before all the media had been sent it and all the stakeholders have been sent it. And that just goes to the heart of, you know, all the kind of lack of communication between the two sides. But it wasn't just the surprise, wasn't it? The thing they really took exception with and which they had one,

wanted to change in the letter was this description of them as private citizens. We were told in no uncertain terms by Harry and Megan's camp, they prefer to be known as public figures. Well, we've been told, haven't we, that, you know, we should respect their privacy. And then we're told, well, they're moving schools because of security concerns. You know, if anyone had published that without their say-so, it would have been, they'd have been jumped on. That's the friction, isn't it? They're in lies the rub, right? That they don't see themselves as private citizens, they didn't say, you know, royal life isn't for us. We're just going to go off and do our own thing. That would have been fine. What they're not doing is doing their own thing.

They're aping the royal family. They're coming back into rural circles. And I think that letter betrayed something of a real concern within the palace. And certainly is some people I'm speaking to in and around the palace saying there is a worry. You know, when I wrote a story that went up on the Times website and in print on Saturday, it was the most red story on the, it was the most red story on the website. There is huge interest in them. People want to know what they're up to. I think there's still a lot of affection for Harry. Now, there was a UGov poll out last week that said most members of the British public do not want them to have an official working royal role within the family, within the monarchy. It doesn't stop people being interested in what they're doing. Yeah.

And they're shiny and new. They're back here. Everyone's excited about it. And the palace is thinking, okay, how do we do this? When the king's got important work going on, Prince of Wales got important work going on. If everyone's looking at Harry, that letter, I think, just portrayed a slight concern from the palace of how that, you know, he's going to steal a bit of that limelight. There was another extraordinary who are last week. This is always gone, isn't that? After that letter, which was that. Oh, gosh, yes.

The Ugandan discussion. Which was the Uganda. Uganda Invictus Games response. Yes. When Harry came back in the size. summer, for a week of engagements when he had that reunion with the King, his very first engagement was at Chatham House in London. I was there. It was Invictus related, but of course, all eyes were on Harry because as he got on the stage to talk about how great Invictus was, you know,

we found out that he'd lost his case against Associated Newspapers Limited. But his big announcement of the day, which didn't even factor in anywhere because everyone was obsessed with his court gaze, was that Uganda, Uganda was joining the Invictus family and was going to take part in next year's Inviticus Games for the first time. Now, after Lord Benyon's letter was sent out, its extraordinary series of tweets appeared on X, posts on X, from the Ugandan president's son, an effective head of his head of the military, the military, saying in no uncertain terms, I'm withdrawing Uganda from the Invictus Games because there's a whole circus around Harry and Megan. We deeply revere the king. We don't want to do anything without the king's blessing.

what he actually told the Times was, I have factions in the Ministry of Defence that support that Harry and Megan nonsense. I had to quash it straight away. I support the Monick period. Look, the tweet came out in the morning and we phoned him just to say, you know, are you serious, essentially?

Did you press M by mistake? Because let's face it, this guy's Twitter feed, General Kena Ragova. It's lively. It's very lively. I definitely recommend checking that out. He's talked about how Jay Z should hand over his wife, Beyonce, I think at one point.

He's threatened to invade neighbouring Kenya at one point on his ex-feed. So, you know, just to be sure, was where the times we phoned up and asked, you know, is this serious? And then he came out with that fantastic quote about Harry, Megan, nonsense being the reason behind it all. Now that letter clearly, and well, certainly this is the blame that was laid from Harry's camp onto the King's camp saying that letter had confused thing, started this international diplomatic kind of tip-for-tat where Uganda then suddenly thought, oh my goodness, we can't have anything to do with Harry because that's going to offend the king.

Paul's out of Invictus Games. I mean, I think Harry was pretty distraught about that. He was because that was a huge blow to the Invictus Games and everything that he seems to stand for. Behind the scenes, perhaps the king realized that he needed to make amends. And Sir Clive Alderton, his most senior aide, then phones the general in Uganda to set the matter straight. The king has always been supportive of Invictus.

He was there in 2014 at the inaugural Games. Any idea that he is not backing Invictus, I think, was tricky. But that telephone call behind the scenes, imagine being on the receiving end or listening into that call. It's quite an extraordinary intervention, isn't it? It was a big intervention. And I think maybe, you know, you'd like to think that the king, seeing, will have seen all the news and will have known how hurt and upset Harry would have been

to have lost Uganda from the Invictus Games because they thought that they were offending the king. You'd like to think that the king probably personally wanted to put that right. And we know that there's no love loss between Clive Alderton and Harry. I mean, Harry called him the wasp in his book Spare and, you know, said he would be very polite to you and then you'd find this sting in your bag. But the very fact that the king deployed Clive to ring up the general and go, the king was incredibly touched by your concern for whether or not he had any concerns. But just to clarify, he's got no concerns about Ugandan Invictus Games. Crack on.

And then we got the announcement, Uganda's back in the Invictus Games. Whatever Sir Clive said down the telephone line, purring down the line to the general in Uganda, worked because we had that then dramatic U-turn. Uganda was back in the games. Everyone was happy-ish. It's a lot of drama, isn't it, in a few days? It's a lot of drama in a few days. days. It's exhausting already. Schools in Victus Games, U-turns, public-private.

But this always follows the Sussexes, doesn't it? You know, they seem to court the headlines. I think the Uganda thing was extraordinary because it just sort of brought it into a kind of international level. It does make me wonder whether there will be pressure on the king to go to the Birmingham in Victor's Games next year to prove that he's supportive of it. There already is pressure on him to do that. But, you know, the king, I don't think he feels that pressure. You know, Harry's constant briefing that he'd love the king to be there and wants reconciliation. Next July is a long way away. It is.

So much could happen. Considering how much has happened in just a week. I'm exhausted. So a new packed diary, a new royal framework for a renewed Harry rebranded rotor, whatever that may look like. I mean, are there any lessons to be gained from this strange saga, do you think? Let's see how it plays out in the next few weeks. But it's going to bring another huge area of interest for the public. I think it's going to be interesting to see how we, the media, navigate it,

navigate the sort of two camps. And I think it'll be interesting to watch whether it can be peacefully done or whether more frictions. I suspect the latter, given the events and pronouncements for the last few days. But let's see. It's not going to be smooth sailing, is it? It's always slightly bumpy with Harry and Megan. Predict some turbulence. I predict.

Seat belts on. Well, that's all from us this week. We'll of course be watching Harry and Megan's return to public life closely. And you can follow our latest reporting by subscribing at the times.com. And if you enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to like, rate or leave a comment. Next week we'll be back to break down a major new memoir by Earl Spencer, brother of Diana, as he speaks candidly for the first time about his sister's death. You won't want to miss it. So don't forget to follow us on your podcast app.

or by subscribing to the Times Royals channel on YouTube. Until then, thank you for joining us on the Royals, and we'll see you next week.