The Ruminant: Audio Candy for Farmers, Gardeners and Food Lovers - e.40: Three Québécois Farmers Share Three Great Ideas for Your Farm

Episode Date: March 12, 2015

In this all-Quebec episode, I talk to three exceptional Québécois farmers, each with a good idea for your farm.  First: Dan Brisebois of Tournesol Farm and a great book on crop planning explains how to include yoru employees and apprentices in a year-end debrief that will help you improve your farm management.  Next, Philippe Choiniere of Oneka Farm talks about the vital importance of branding to your farm business.  Finally: Jean-Martin Fortier, author of The Market Gardener, talks about how tarping your garden beds is excellent for weed control, and can dramatically reduce the need for tillage and increase your soil's microbiome. He also talks about a project so new that its website, growersandco.com, won't be up for another couple of days. 

Hey folks, I am back from my big conference trip. I was in Wisconsin at Moses and I was in San Diego at Permaculture Voices 2. They were great conferences. PV2 in San Diego was just incredible. The speakers that I heard and all the people that I saw and talked to. And if that ends up happening next year you gotta go. So one reason for the trip, a big reason actually, was to just generate ideas and make contacts so that I can bring you some really good episodes in the future and I think I did that. I am so

excited for what's to come as a result of the people I met and the topics that gave me ideas for future episodes. So stay tuned for that. This week, the greatest announcement that I've ever made on the podcast. This week, you're going to be hearing a triple dose, a triple dose of Quebecois farmer super knowledge. farmer super knowledge. It just happens that I talked to two different Quebecois farmers at PV2. As well, I got a surprise in my Skype phone number inbox recently. Dan Brisbois, a former guest of the podcast and a good friend, phoned in with an idea that he recorded to share with the rest of you. So today's episode is going to feature Dan Brisbois and Jean-Martin Fortier, another former guest of the podcast, as well as Philippe Chouinard of Oneka Body Care Products. Now you probably noticed those are all men's names, so

it's true. What we've got in today's episode is a good old-fashioned Quebecois sausage party. And I'm not going to bother trying to pronounce that in French. So I asked Google Translate to do it for me. Ah, see, but that doesn't work because that's France French. And that would just ultimately upset my esteemed guest today so I don't have at my fingertips here access to a Quebecois accent uh to pronounce this on Google Translate or elsewhere so um well let's try let's try Robert let's try Robert over at AT&T Text-to-Voice see how he pronounces it, this episode of The Ruminant is a real sauce, this partique webequa. Yeah, that was okay. But let's hear what my friend Alberto has to say.

Me gusta este partido salchicha que becois. Well, I don't know. But at least he likes it. Okay, so first up, we're going to hear from Dan Brisebois. And this one is pretty self-explanatory, pretty self-contained. Hey Jordan, this is Dan Brisebois from Ternus Oil Cooperative Farm and one thing that I thought I would share is we normally do a season review at the end of each season. All the five farmers get together on our farm and talk about the last season and crunch it.

But one of the things we did last year is we decided to bring our employees and apprentices into the process. So we're five farmers and we brought the five employees and or apprentices into the groups. We were 10 people and we took a half day to just review the whole season. And we started off a couple days before we gave, I handed out a number of questions, like loose questions to people, you know, what was the best thing, what was the worst thing, best improvement.

Also stuff like, you know, best song that we listened to in the wash station or so forth. And people filled out the answers. And then on the actual meeting day, we cut up everybody's answers or cut the questions and then put them into a box so for each time we got to a new question that we wanted to review we drew out different people's answers and we could talk about them so having the whole farm team including the apprentices as part of this review was really really enlightening and brought

some challenges that we hadn't seen from a management perspective, but some of the apprentices definitely highlighted. And it also strengthened our perception of some of the really strong points of the farm too. So that was a really great idea. And we're definitely going to be doing at least a season review and trying to find more ways to bring the apprentices into meetings and sharing their insights. I mean, having these people on the farm and working all the time, they're really a good

resource to draw on, to improve our farm, and also to make sure we can create a better experience for them too and show how we appreciate their feedback. So that's my innovation, and keep up the great work. Bye. Thanks, Dan. Dan is co-author of the excellent crop planning book called Crop Planning for Organic Veggie Growers. It's available through Canadian Organic Growers,

and I believe in various sources for e-books on the web, if I'm not mistaken, but I will post a link to that book in the show notes. I really think you should check it out. I use it in my own farming system and it has made me a better farmer. Me gusta este partido salchicha que becois. We good? We're good. Okay, so now we're going to hear from Philippe Chouinard.

Sorry, Philippe. That's just an awful pronunciation but we're going to hear from from my my friend philippe i met philippe at permaculture voices 2 in san diego with his partner stacy lecouyer philippe produces various herbs that he and stacy turn into really beautiful body care products. It's a very smart form of value adding. If you want to hear more from Philippe, you should check out the Permaculture Voices podcast. He gave a great interview to the host Diego a few months ago, and it's much more in depth. So Philippe gave a presentation at PV2 all about the importance of branding. And so afterwards, I asked him if he could give me a few minutes to tell all of you. And here we go.

Hello, my name is Philippe Chouinard and our farm is Oneka. We are a value add based on medicinal plants that we transform and include in our hair and body care products. Philippe, thanks a lot for joining me on the Room in a Podcast. Thank you. Philippe, yesterday here at Permaculture Voices, you gave a very short but very interesting talk about the vital importance of branding in a farm business, but I guess particularly in a farm business in which you're producing a value-added product. So could you talk a little bit about that idea of how important branding is, but how you came to really understand how important branding is?

Sure. Well, the learning that we experience is really from doing it ourselves and from also working with with people with more experience and in the end when people like us are very excited about what we do and and we believe in in in the values and and you know the better principles and it's better for people better for the earth and we lose we lose, I think we forget the importance of actually connecting with people. We forget that there's actually a consumer on the other end who's ultimately buying a product. And they may not see it the same way you do. Not that they don't value good products.

But they're not maybe as excited about the farming part and the swales swales and the water and then this and that where they're looking for a good product for them so the connection between what you do and what they're looking for is through your image is through your branding and I'm speaking as if I've always known this we didn't do this at the beginning I mean the first labels we had the ink was leaking on the on the labels and we thought hey it's eco you know there's no plastic it's good you know and people are like no this doesn't work it wasn't practical so so packaging really as we came to understood it is part of the product and and when I say branding is more than just

packaging but it's the customer experiences how people perceive your service, your product, your image, your brand. And so it is very important. And if anybody's serious about promoting and really building something, then branding cannot be undervalued. So you mentioned something fascinating during your talk, which was what did you notice when you went from your previous branding to your current branding in terms of your sales? Well, the last change, which was the most significant and the most researched, because obviously we hired branding experts. We don't do this on our own, is that overnight our sales went up 30%. 30%. 30%.

And this is, you know, accounted, it's counted. No, it's not. It could even be more, actually, when you really, you know, look at everything. But in the end, people thought it was a new product. You know, and it just shows you how before some people were looking right through us. And now they're like, hey, you know, new product. It's been on the market for four years. Yeah, same product.

Same product. Just some more eye-catching. Nothing changed in the product. It's all about the dress that we put on. It's a new dress, period. And I guess this is crucial, especially if you are at a level of your production where you can't be there to sell it yourself. Like if you're selling your value-added product at farmer's market, I guess even if your branding isn't as good, you have yourself. And if you're a great salesperson, then you can use that.

But if it's on the store shelf is where you're leaving it alone to sell itself. The point, your point right there, I think is everything. Is that as long as you're there talking about it your people are able to connect with you but the reality is this is a you know a shelf-stable product so it's sold in distribution and so as soon as it leaves you or sometimes it's just on the shelf by itself right so so absolutely I mean it's a that has a huge difference and you want to make sure that that the story your values and what you stand for is communicated through what people perceive and see from you. Do you think then, I mean, I don't know if you feel in a good position to speculate on this,

but we all, I mean, everyone here at the conference, or many of us have just farm businesses. I mean, do you think you could even take these ideas and like, is it, is it as important for my farm's logo that's going on my business card? Or is that, do you, do you, would you separate that out and say, no, that's not quite as important, you know, for your general business card or your website banner? I mean, or the quality of your web design? I design, do you think that matters too? Have you guys put, since learning this, have you put equal effort into improving things like your website aesthetic and stuff?

Yeah, 100%. I think that as long as you are selling a product or service to an end user, they are the ones, branding image matters. I think in a case where a farmer sells commodity to a middleman then it doesn't matter. It's the relationship that you have with your buyers but when it comes to even produce it's a feeling. People want nice things. People want nice things. People want to feel good about what they're buying.

And the image is tremendously important, whether we want it or not. In a way, it's unfortunate because it should be about the quality of the product. But even though people say it's about quality, they are conditioned to judge a product or service by what they see and how they perceive it yeah and so it's it's ultimately and then you know it goes beyond packaging I mean it's it's the entire and I speak like I I'm an expert I'm an expert we're learning this from working with consultants too and and it's about everything that people are in contact with from from your website to your flyers to to to packaging whatever do

your logo it's all part okay so I'm gonna ask you then so I'm gonna ask you something if you remember back to when when you two were starting the business and it's scary and you're scared to spend money and all the rest. And there's a lot of people like that starting out, starting a farm business and you don't have a big budget and you're terrified of debt. A lot of us feel that way when we start our business, right?

Would you recommend to that person to like, perhaps they do their own design for their website and logo and stuff, but would you recommend them spending a bit of money and at least showing that to a brand consultant or someone who can look at it and evaluate it? Or do you think that that spending that has to happen could come later? You know what I mean? Is it that important that they should do it right at the start

so they don't start off on the wrong track? That's a great question. Now, there's a reality to starting a business that you've got to be careful. You've got to be careful. You've got to really know where the critical investments are and you don't want to spend money everywhere. Now I think that there's a point where when we did our third rebranding we were at a point where we are already been in business for four or five years we had a good client base and we knew that that was stopping us from growing so it wasn't even a real question that whether we should or not spend it now we shopped

around and made sure we were working with the right people but it ended up costing us probably close to 15,000 bucks which is a lot but it isn't because our sales went up 30 percent yeah so the investment was worth it but we were at that critical point where we we had reached a level where it became an it became an obstacle if we didn't do it now early on early on, first of all, we didn't value it. If I started that same business today, I would put more energy there because we would grow faster. We were limited by the perception people had of our products. Because remember, the problem has never been quality.

It's always been how people perceive it. So my first thing is somebody has to make sure their business is solid, the market is tested, there is a demand, you're serving people, you're serving the planet. When that's answered, then step on the pedal and go. So I sense you probably wouldn't have spent $15,000 in that first year, but you would advocate maybe spending a bit and making sure that you do have something decent to start out as long as you got something solid as long as you got something that's ready i mean there there is you have to know am i in the research phase right or am i in

the growing phase now i think when you're in the research you really try to validate is my product or service relevant is it is it serving a need Once that's clearly answered, then it's time to go. And, I mean, it's always relevant too. I mean, if you have a $50,000 business, well, you don't go out and spend $100,000 on branding. And when you have a $3 million business, well, you're probably being cheap if you're spending $5,000, right? So it's really relative. if you're spending five thousand bucks right yeah so it's really relative but I believe once you are you have proven that your your business is relevant in the market then it's it's your duty and it's important to to make sure that that

that the way people perceive your products reflects its quality and its benefits right good insights man thanks very much. One more time, where can people find out about your stuff, about Oneka? Sure, well thank you for having me Jordan, the website is www.onekaelements.com. Okay, and if it's alright with you, I want to grab the pre and post photos of the branding so people can see it. They can go and check it out and see exactly what you're talking about because it's a really, really beautiful set of branding you. Sure. And so people can see that you go and check it out and see exactly what you're talking about. Cause it's a really, really beautiful set of branding you have now.

Thank you. All right. Thanks, man. Thank you. Okay. So now we're going to hear from Jean-Martin Fortier. Jean-Martin is the author of The Market Gardener. He has been on the podcast before to talk about that book. It's an excellent book. It's pretty much essential reading for anyone with a market garden who wants to up their game because Jean-Martin and his partner, Modalene, have figured out how to do market gardening very, very well. figured out how to do market gardening very, very well. So I wanted to sit down with Jean Martin when I saw him at the conference to ask him specifically about stale seed bedding and even more specifically about the use of tarps in order to stale seed your garden beds.

The use of tarps seems like a great way to sprout and kill weed seeds on the surface of your soil before you plant and so right there is a great reason to consider using them but as i look for ways to reduce tillage on my farm so that i can maintain more biological life in the soil which really hates tillage i realized that that this tarping method would be a great way to do that. So I sat down with Jean Martin and I asked him about the tarps, the role they play in germinating weeds ahead of time, but also the role they play in reducing tillage and improving the biological life in your soil. A couple notes.

The first is that we were sitting outside during this conversation and it was a little bit windy at times, so there's a little bit of ugly noise occasionally in the conversation and I apologize for that. And second, at the end of the conversation, Jean Martin tells me about a really exciting new project he's involved with and he mentions a website associated with the project, growersandco.com and I'm going to link to that from the show notes but uh this project is so new that the site will be up very soon but it may not be up today when i release this episode but within the next few days is when they they anticipate having the site up you can uh you

can check out that link at the ruminant okay here we go all right so i'm here with jean martin fortier at permaculture voices 2 in san diego and uh he has graciously offered to sit down with me and get a little more specific about one small aspect of his very popular book the market gardener thanks a lot for joining me jean martin my pleasure jordan my pleasure j, I think the focus of your book in terms of the concept of stale seed bedding. Can you briefly summarize what stale seed bedding is and specifically how you use tarps to help you do that? Okay, so it's all about weed prevention. So we're all about that all the time. So what you'll do is you have your seeding dates because you crop plant. So you have specific seeding dates.

You'll always prepare your seed beds two weeks beforehand. You prepare them. You broad fork them. You shape them. You use your harrow, your rototiller, however you do it. You prepare them and then you water them and you put row cover or clear plastic. And the goal is to pop up the weeds before you plant. So you have dormant weed seeds that are popping up and then you destroy them either with a

harrow on the first inch or with a flame weeder which doesn't move the soil again and then you seed in that. Because you don't want to disturb more soil in the process of killing off those weeds. So that's why a flame weeder is superior than a harrow any kind of light tillage or cultivation right so that's the stale seed bed techniques and you should always do that regard you should always do that before because you're popping up the dormant weed seeds before you plant so it's less weed pressure on your crop so with the tarp so you're doing that but you're not doing anything.

It's the absence of light that is destroying the dormant weed seeds. So you have your beds that are prepared because you're working on permanent beds. You've prepared them like 15 years ago and you're laughing every spring at all these growers that are going in their fields with their tractors in wet soil because your beds are prepared. And then you tarp them for a couple of weeks. And then under the tarp, it's dark, it's moist, and it's a bit warmer. So these are the perfect germinating conditions. And then the dormant weed seeds that are there, they germinate.

And then what happens? They die because there's no light. so that's called occultation so it's the exact same principle but you're not you're not doing anything you're just tarping the ground right so you you talk about that all of what you just said is in your book it's a fantastic book i recommend i've recommended before the people go and get this book uh but and and i don't think i don't think there'd be many people that would disagree with the concept that you just explained. But if I remember correctly, there were just a couple of questions I had after reading

your book that you answered in your very excellent workshops that you offer. So I want to talk about that. Okay. Let's do it. Okay. So can you just clarify what is the order? So you're getting the tarps on a couple weeks before at a minimum, right? But have you done everything else to the bed before planting?

Have you added compost and any amendments you're adding or anything? So, okay, so we use the tarps for two reasons. In some instance, we want them to get rid of the weeds, the dormant weed seeds. Yeah. But what we've also figured out is that once we would remove these tarps, my beds were prepared without me having to do anything. So that was really the start of what I call the minimal tillage practice that we use on our farm. So the sequence is that we'll have permanent beds. That's like the basics. And I'm a strong believer that everybody should work on a permanent bed system,

tractor or no tractor. Because that's where we're going. So permanent beds and then you tarp it if you have time. Okay. Ideally you tarp it. So you keep the tarp for two or three weeks and it'll... Sorry, Jam. Let's back up. Let's say you had a crop in it. Let's say this is mid-season. Okay. You had a crop in the bed. Let's say it was, it was irregular. Yeah. I know because I know, I have a sense of your system that you go in with a flail mower. Yeah. So you just chop all that leftover crop down. So it's in really small particles that are going to break down easily. Yeah. Right.

Okay. So you've done that. Yeah. What's the next step? Is that when you tarp? Yeah. Then that's a good question. You can do it both ways.

Okay. You can go with a broad fork. You can put your compost. You can tarp. You can do it both ways. Okay. You can go with a broad fork. You can put your compost.

You can tarp. And then once two weeks or three weeks later, two weeks, arugula will take like two weeks and it's going to be destroyed. Yeah. And then you could just slightly go with your harrow. Yeah. And then your bed is prepared. Or you could just tarp, then remove the tarp two weeks, and then broad fork, put your compost in a harrow. It doesn't matter.

Yeah. So you're not worried too much about the seeds in the compost. That's what I'm kind i'm kind of getting no because i'm buying my compost and it doesn't have any weeds it's well it's good compost yeah yeah like and and every every grower you should always make sure that your compost doesn't have any weed seeds like this is like 101 yeah you need to be on it you need to have your compost pile covered and you need to make sure that you're measuring temperatures turning in the right time so that you don't have weed seeds and or you buy it. Or if you're just not quite as on top of it as you can. Jean Martin Fortier, you get it on before you tarp. No? That's yeah, that's a solution, but you should be on it. Yeah, like I am because I'm not as you know

I'm not an amazing grower. I just plan things ahead. Yeah, things ahead yeah so that I don't get caught up and that's really key okay but that's a suggestion you can pop your weeds from the compost by tarping it but ideally you don't even have that problem yeah yeah and you know what that here's another trick if you you're having problem with weeds in your carrots and you don't have a flame weeder, you can get compost that doesn't have any weeds. That's really important. Then you can put an inch or half an inch and just roll it onto your bed. You have a black compost rolled and then you just seed right into that okay and then you won't have any weeds yeah yeah

because your compost is like the first layer and it doesn't have any weed seeds in it right so that's a trick to not have any weeds at all but you have to have compost that is weed free okay but getting getting back to the the tarping um so so one last question then about about about what we've just been talking about is there any reason not to get it all on ahead of the tarping if you if you if you're on top of things no your amendments your compost all that no you can you can put it and then you would pull your tarp off and theoretically you're good you plant right into it exactly and and you've probably killed off a hell of a lot of your weeds. Yep.

Okay. So I understand your question now. Yeah. You can do that. Okay. There's no reason why not. It's very logical and it's just about managing your time. Yeah.

If you have time to put everything in before, do it. Do it. Then boom, you're ready to go. And I also just want to quickly say, because some listeners may not know what a power harrow is, boom you're ready to go and I also just want to quickly say because some listeners may not know what a power power harrow is uh it's it's it's a it's a it's a tractor implement that um disturbs the surface layer of the soil without inverting the layers too much and so you don't mixes it mixes it mixes without turning the solar up and down so that you're bringing up more weed seeds yeah fair enough yeah and it's the ultimate seed bed preparation tool right right people can look

it up at themarketgardener.com they'll see or that you can google it power harrow yeah a great story about that and i can come back on your show some other time is that man i've been talking about this tool for the last four years and it's really been catching on fire and these italian makers these dudes they were back orders for so many so long then then this then this guy from Quebec started to make some. And he made really good ones, and now his harrows are carried by BCS America nationwide. That's incredible. That's super cool.

Now we have manufacturing on North American soil. It's the first BCS tool that is manufactured in North America. That's really, really impressive. And the guy's from Quebec. Benoît Tsevierge. I think all the impressive farmers and builders are from Quebec, it seems. Because they all went tree planting or cherry picking in BC when they were young. You're such a charmer.

So listen, there's another reason I wanted to ask you about stale seed bedding. And it's some indirect benefits that I want you to speculate on okay I've just spent a weekend at one of the biggest organic farming conferences in the world at Moses in Wisconsin and now I'm here at permaculture voices I'm spending I'm hearing from a lot of people talking about the vital importance of maintaining microbiology and yeah the soil yeah and also the vital importance importance of cover cropping but but anyone who's grown veggies commercially knows it's really hard to to manage those two elements in your system. Or rather, I should say, it's just it's just it's so much easier to just till, till, till.

And and in the process, well, in the case of soil biology, you end up killing all that biology with lots of tilling. In the case of cover cropping, cover crops just get really hard to deal with. all that biology with with lots of tilling in the case of cover crop and cover crops just get really hard to deal with yeah it seems to me that if you're a small scale grower important and using this this tarping principle you're gonna and therefore not doing a lot of tilling you're that's a way to to get rid of residues in your soil while maintaining it even like helping this the microbiology thrive as well as by mowing with your flail mower your cover crops down, and then tarping, that's the way to, without tillage, get that stuff breaking down for the next crop.

Am I right? No, no, you're right on the money. Two things, okay? When we're talking about microorganisms or biological life in the soil, it could be also earthworms, spiders, whatever, their habitat, okay, is how your soil is structured. Yeah. That's their habitat.

When you go in with a rototiller, you're fucking them up. Yeah, totally, completely. Okay? So these guys, they need to come back and rebuild their house. Yeah. So they're not very productive. So that's one thing. The other thing is that all of these guys, what they dislike above all, besides herbicides,

and, you know know we don't talk about these things but exposed bare exposed soil yeah is their greatest enemy it's why you'll you'll start to see less earthworms in your soil if you're yeah so that's why these black tarps they're so great because you're mulching your soil so it's not exposed and you're creating this habitat like let's say for earthworms okay earthworms they operate at nighttime because they don't want to get you know chewed on by the birds okay so when it's dark when it's moist and

when it's a bit warm that's when they operate the earthworms yeah okay so when you tarp your soil you're trick tricking them, thinking it's nighttime. And these guys are working 24 hours a day. Just building beautiful soil. Building beautiful soil. And you're there just doing nothing. You're laughing. And then you're even suppressing weeds.

And that's the macro-organisms. That's to say nothing of the fungi that we're learning. Or certainly many in the sustainable farming world are really emphasizing how vital they are yeah we just we kill them when we when we till our soil yeah so you know i'm not saying that tilling is bad or evil or whatever it's just you know you can do it whatever but there's better ways to operate on the long term and you'll get benefits right off the bat and so that's what i'm you know i've been teaching and what i think is that it's not about just being right or wrong. It's having an approach that in the long term will make you a better grower or you'll have better produce or better soil.

Okay. So that's great. I think you've just convinced a lot of people to do this technique. We talked a little bit about the materials, about the tarps themselves. Yeah. I assume you have links through your site or sites to to some because when i read the book alone without checking through the links i wasn't exactly sure exactly what kind of tarps you were talking about i knew they had to be black at least on the

on the underside yeah but um so okay so they're uv treated yeah very important otherwise they'll photo the grade yeah eight mil or more or around so that they'll last for 20 years yeah but they're they're plastic food graded tarps they're silage tarps that's what they use to cover up grain on dairy farms okay and you could get them uh you know there's different places you can get them but the local local feed store, if they sell to dairy farms, you'll find them. Silage tarps. Yeah.

These are white on one side, aren't they? Well, they can be white or black, or they can be black on black. Ideally, you'd have one that's black on black. People need not to confuse them with clear plastic, where this is solarizing. Very different. This is like burning your soil up. Way higher temperatures. Yeah. So black plastic is mulch. where this is solarizing very different like this is like burning your soil higher temperature yeah so black plastic is mulch yeah so you're mulching your soil yeah yeah okay okay yeah and you just

you just referenced it they you've seen like i i know that one criticism or potential criticism people will have as well more fucking plastic in the system yeah well you know get over it because plastic is with the right usage plastic is the most amazing thing we can have like we're trying to grow you know crops in in glass houses and try to pay for one yeah like plastic with the right usage and i'm not talking about disposable plastic these tarps man they can last you for 20 years. And, you know, because I'm farming with tarps, last year I spent $260 for gasoline to put in my BCS, which is crazy. It's almost nothing. So, you know, petroleum on one side and then a lot less petroleum on the other side.

Well, I know. I was just going to say, it sounds like what you're suggesting is that plastic tarps are the lesser of the various evils you can consider. Yeah, and, you know, I'm a bit high because this is Permaculture Voice, and we're in San Diego, and I'm speaking fast here. But, you know, I think, honestly, if you're concerned that much about plastic and you really want to make a difference, my advice to you is, man, make a successful happen and when when when you're at that point try

and go without plastic but don't put yourself that barrier right up front because farming is already so hard yeah just you know just trying to make that happen first and then after five or six or seven years you know then you'll be in position to say okay I'm done with plastic. I'm moving on to cellulose or I don't know, whatever. But if you put this obstacle right in front, I think you won't succeed and you'll be frustrated and you're not going to be empowering yourself at all. That's really cool, Jan. Thanks for sharing those thoughts. Now, I'm really curious. I mean, you've had a really successful run with your book. What's next? Do you have any other books planned or what's next for you?

When I'm thinking about writing another book, I feel like sleeping for a million hours. So that's not in my plans. I have a couple of projects on the farm and I have a new design that I'm working on for somebody else's farm. Really cool stuff. I could come back later on and tell you more about that. But one project that's been in my heart the last few months is that I've been feeling, as I tour around and I look with what's up and what's happening, I've been feeling this need for,

you know, perhaps better tools and better equipment for what we do. And a bunch of us are getting together and starting a new tool in approll company called growers and co yeah and i think it's the shit and i think you should check it out growers and co.com and uh yeah i think i just feel that that's the next step for us as a group of like-minded people to have like somewhat of a company that represents who we are as a group and so i'm i'm thinking about joining as an ambassador to that brand.

Imagine that. That's really cool. Yeah, I really like tool designs. I really think that we need to have better boots, better rain pants that have knee pads that I've seen in Europe. All the gear that I see everywhere. So the stuff exists, but it's hard for us yeah and and that company what they've asked me to come up with is like the ultimate gear that we need making sure that when

people buy it you know there's no second thought this is good stuff yeah and I'm all about that so well that sounds really interesting yeah I can't wait to see it cool thanks a lot thanks again for coming on and sharing your perspective let's go surfing done okay folks that's it i hope you enjoyed it if you want to be awesome like dan brisbois of turnusel farm and crop planning for organic veggie growers you should call 310-734-8426 and share an idea with the rest of the Ruminant podcast audience. Anything you think other farmers and gardeners would like to know. Or send me an email editor at theruminant.ca or tweet at me at ruminantblog. Talk to you next week. Я очень грустна сейчас, что колбаса партия Квебека закончилась. Not spring water and peaches We'll owe nothing to this world of thieves And live life like it was meant to be

guitar solo Because why would we live in a place that don't want us? A place that is trying to bleed us dry We could be happy with life in the country With salt on our skin And the dirt on our hands I've been doing a lot of thinking Some real soul searching

And here's my final resolve I don't need a big old house Or some fancy car To keep my love going strong. So we'll run right out into the wilds and braces. We'll keep close quarters with gentle faces and live next door to the birds and the bees and live life like it was meant to be.

And live life like it was meant to be