The Ruminant: Audio Candy for Farmers, Gardeners and Food Lovers - e82: Media Training for Farmers

Episode Date: May 6, 2016

This ep: Jennifer Cockrall-King, author of Food and the City: Urban Ag and the New Food Revolution and the just-released Food Artisans of the Okanagan, joins me to talk about how farmers can get the right kind of media attention from journalists like her.  I learned a lot. You will too.

This episode of the Ruminant Podcast, my guest is Jennifer Cockrell-King. Jennifer's a food and agriculture writer, and I asked her on the show to talk about how farmers can be more media savvy. She's a freelance food and agriculture journalist for magazines like Maclean's, En Route, and Western Living. She's also author of the book Food in the City, Urban Agriculture and the New Food Revolution, the research for which took her to 10 cities in North America, Cuba, and Western Europe. This spring, she published her second book, called Food Artisans of the Okanagan. And for the next 40 minutes, she'll tell you how to attract the right kind of media attention from people like her. Stay tuned.

I think it's not fair that people start up a business, say, as a farm, and then are just expected to somehow know about how to deal with media. I think a lot of people have had pretty crappy experiences working with media too and then they just they don't understand they they might think that that's how it always works so then they become very media shy and then they're missing out on good opportunities as well. It's the Ruminant Podcast. I'm Jordan Marr, and you can get a hold of me at editor at theruminant.ca, on Twitter at ruminantblog, or you can find me on Facebook. All right, it's time for the show.

Hey folks, it's Jordan. All right, so short introduction this week. I just want to apologize that there was no episode last week. April was absolutely insane on the farm, and I really should have had hired help, but my hired help wasn't going to show up until just a couple days ago, which they did. The cavalry has arrived, which has freed up a little time for me to get back on the podcast tour. So I'm here with the regular scheduled episode. the podcast tour. So I'm here with the regular scheduled episode. Last week was supposed to be the zoom in to the practical aspects of farming. So we've completely skipped that. We're back to

another long form conversation. This one is with Jennifer Cockrell King, as you just heard in the intro. I've been really excited to release this. I've had it in the bag for a few months now. And if you're anything like me, media savviness didn't come naturally to you. It certainly didn't to me. And I learned a lot from Jennifer. I think you will too. And take it from me, there's some really good advice in here. Jennifer was really thoughtful in considering how farmers can get the right kind of media attention and just form really good relationships with journalists who can help you promote your farm. So here it is, here's the conversation, and I will talk to you at the end jennifer cockrell king thanks a lot for joining me on the ruminant podcast it is my pleasure okay so uh the media and how farmers

can best use it to their advantage i think we could perhaps start by talking about general media savviness or media readiness um jennifer you are of the media and you've interviewed a lot of farmers. So my first question with regards to media savviness and media readiness is how broad the spectrum is between a very media savvy or ready farmer and one who is not at all media ready or savvy. Do you run into the latter group or the latter farmer very often? Yeah, there's a whole range. I mean, specifically in the Okanagan Valley, you have everything from a Mission Hill, which is a huge winery with PR agents, you know,

sprinkled throughout Canada almost, ready to take phone calls from the media to source photos or recipes or provide information. Two, you know, a farmer who is basically working in a field all day and she or he, you know, gets around to checking email at 10 or 11 o'clock at night and trying to cope with running a business, doing some retail and responding to the email correspondence that comes in, you know, through the course of their business. So there's quite a range. And this book was quite interesting because I did work with a huge range of people at different with different capacities to answer my questions as somebody from the media. So that's why I found, you know, this discussion might be helpful to people because there were just certain things that I kept seeing over and over again.

because there were just certain things that I kept seeing over and over again. And I thought, you know, I should write this down. This would be really helpful to people, especially on the end of the spectrum where they don't have media training. They don't have PR training. And as you probably know, you're a farmer, but you also have to be a website guru. I do have to be, you know, PR agent and all sorts of other things. So maybe you could help me like, or help all of us. Let's talk a little bit about what, let's call it. So we've got the media savvy farmer. Let's call it, let's call the opposite end of the spectrum, the media naive farmer. And a lot of us start out that way, because as you say, we don't have someone else doing it for us and we've never done it before. But what are, what

are some telltale signs you get on the phone to interview a farmer and what are some telltale signs that they're, that they're media naive? Right. Um, okay. So when I'm phoning people up, um, and looking for an interview, uh, they offer to write something up for me and send it in. So they want to, so they'll want to write, they'll want to do my work for me. They'll say, oh, you know what, I would prefer if I wrote your article for you, and I'll just send it to you. And I have to explain that that won't work. Like, it has to be my writing. That's what I'm getting paid for. That's what the editor expects, or that's what my readership expects if I'm writing a book. So that's a number one thing, is wanting to provide the story for me, which is a good thing um i want i think all all uh small business owners

should be able to provide their own story but that would probably be best on your website or in a little uh word document that if a media comes to you and want some background information that you provide to them. So yeah, so if a writer phones and they want to talk to you, be able to tell your story and be able to, you know, send them some information as background, but know that the writer will have to create the story herself or himself. Right. And there's a difference between the written materials that you can totally use that you have already existing, a difference between that and the reality that a lot of journalists are going to want a live conversation. You know what I mean? Like a real conversation. You know, there's a difference between PR and editorial as well,

which most people wouldn wouldn't know and why would you know it so PR is public relations and that is the face that the face and the image and the writing that you want to have available to people on your website so that's your story told by you in the way that you want it told and editorial is maybe some maybe I'm working on a story about farmers growing a certain crop in the Okanagan so I'll come to you and say do you grow cauliflower and you say yes then I want to talk to you and I'll specifically ask you questions about that a little bit about your, but I'm crafting it into a bigger story. So I'll have a different, I'll have a different task. And so I will ask you specific questions and, and you will appear in, in my story in that context. So you're not in,

you're not as in control. And I think that's what scares people and and that's okay the other thing is you can always refuse an interview I think yeah when should someone refuse an interview that's that's an interesting thing to say what would is it common for people just assume because they're asked they have to say yes let's back up a little bit. Sure. If I were you, if I was giving you advice on how to deal with the media, I would want to know a little bit about the journalist that's calling, what their topic is, what the article is that they're writing, where it will appear, and find a little bit more information. And if it's something that you feel comfortable, like if you can see that you would have something to contribute or you would like your name to appear in that publication or you think somehow it would be good for your business, then you go for it. because you don't like the outlet that that journalist writes for,

or you don't think that journalist is skilled enough to do your story justice. Any sort of reason like that, you can always just say, no, thanks for your interest, but that's not really something that I think I want to participate in, and that's fine. And you're under no obligation just because a journalist phones you up and asks you questions to answer them. Well, so Jennifer, there's an adage that I don't know if I get the exact wording right here, but like, you know, you see it over and over again in the movies and elsewhere that all press is good press. It sounds like you're contesting that. That's not always the case.

good press. It sounds like you're contesting that, but that's not always the case. Yeah. I mean, I've actually been interviewed by other journalists and I've been misquoted and I've been sort of wedged into articles where I don't really fit and I don't see the relevance of me being in that article. So I've actually been on the other side of that as well and and that's made me a little bit more um strategic i guess you would call it about who you know which projects i would participate in i think that generally if a journalist reaches out to you it's a good thing um you're going to get a little bit of press out of it it might get your name in front of a few more customers that might it might just remind people it's it's a form of uh cheap advertising say so it's actually you know it's it's good there and there are people

that constantly get written about and we could talk about that like why do certain people always get written about and other people are ignored? That's usually about media readiness and PR readiness. But it's generally a good idea to get your name out there. I don't think that, you know, you have a huge media or advertising budget, do you? No, no. I mean, yeah, in general, I'm often interested in myself in media, but I also, what you're saying kind of resonates. Um, I've, I've turned down the odd media request. I think it also, it must also matter. Is this going to be in print? Are you going to be asked to get in

front of a camera or on live on the radio, which I've done? And then you really have to be confident that of your speaking skills and also of the topic in question. So, so I know, I mean, tell me what you think. I think, I think if, if a farmer gets approached by, as I have by a person who writes for a local paper regularly, who profiles farmers, like that's their column, right. That's probably a pretty safe bet. I mean, they're generally going to be pieces that aren't, aren't setting out to be really critical. They're just setting out to profile another farmer in the area versus, versus getting a call out of the blue on the phone. Someone asking me if I can stand in as a farmer to talk about a certain political issue in BC as regarded as, uh, as regards farming that I actually didn't

feel that knowledgeable about. And in that case I said no, because I just thought that that's, that could set me up for looking a little bit foolish. Exactly. And I mean, I always tell people to trust your gut. You know, and a lot of the work that I do is getting to know people first, because I want to make sure I'm approaching the right people for, say, food artisans of the Okanagan. Obviously, there's a quality criteria. And so I'm doing my research to choose people strategically. And I would encourage people to also just ask, feel free to ask the journalist questions.

Like, can I read some of your work online? What's the story about? Who are you writing for when will it appear what's the general thesis of the story and just those questions will will help you decide i think that's the that's a good point i i think i think it when you don't hear that coming from someone like you i think it's easy to feel rude asking those questions. Right, exactly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, it's, uh, it's with absolutely within your right. And I think any good journalist would, uh, respect that and find that, um, refreshing, um, so that you're doing a little bit of your homework so that you can be ready when they call you and, and on the topic that you want to discuss.

It's, you know, it's the right match. So I have a couple of specific questions about communicating with a journalist who wants to cover you. First of all, is it a good idea and or is it even ethical to ask a journalist to submit the topic or questions ahead of time? And not necessarily exactly how they'll be asked, but is it fair to ask you, hey, could you send me a list of what you plan to ask so I can think about it? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I get asked to do that all the time and it doesn't bother me at all. So every freelancer will be a little bit different.

And I think it's, you're helping them out by chatting with them, by being a source for them. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a little bit in return in terms of just making sure you're prepped for the conversation. So yeah, absolutely. One thing that I often get asked, which is a bit of a touchy subject, is if people can see what I've written before it goes to print. I was just going to ask. That was my next question. Let's tackle that.

Yeah. So just so people know, there's a little bit of a difference between newspaper writers and sort of journalists that work in news. So magazines and newspapers and authors who are working on books, because I do a little bit of both. In general, a journalist will be a little bit reluctant to show you what they've written before it goes to print and the reason for that is because there was this idea that journalists had to be unfettered and unbiased and they had to be able to report the news as they saw it that's changing a little bit because uh just because the media landscape is changing.

However, you may get journalists saying, no, you can't do that. It's not ethically correct. I'm more concerned with accuracy. And I would much rather have somebody that I interview look over a portion of what I've written, especially just to check for accuracy. Sometimes you mishear things. Sometimes people misspeak actually in interviews. So I prefer the accuracy route. Now the trouble is when you show people what you're going to write, their reaction is to become an editor and start to jazz up your language. Or even just over get too sensitive about because it's about them.

I mean, how many of us have looked at a picture of ourselves and freaked out about it when no one else looking at the photo even notices because they're busy looking at themselves. You know what I mean? Like we tend to get really sensitive about stuff as regards our own ego, I guess. Right. Very much so. And for people who have never been written about before, it's terrifying to have somebody write about you and have that in print for whatever reason. And I'm sensitive towards that because I just have done this for a long time and I know that it it's it's difficult for people to read about themselves like I'll make some sort of comment um you know I'll say I went to see Jordan at his farm and he brushed away you know some dirt smudge that was on his left cheek or something and you could not be bothered by that or you could be absolutely horrified and think that well people now think that i you know

i'm covered head to toe in dirt right so sometimes it just depends on the personality but so if a journalist offers so you can ask um some journalists will say no some journalists will be offended that you've asked to see the the piece before the pieces is magazine speak for the article before it goes to print. But, you know, nothing ventured, nothing gained. So you can ask. And then I would just caution people. I do get people who want to rewrite my stories. And I have a particular writing style that is mine.

And I've been working on it for 20 years. So I get a little bit sensitive when people start to, you know, rewrite my descriptions based on how they think it should sound. So there's a lot of ego at play in writing. Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. On both sides of the equation. So just a sub subset of that question is what about simply, is there any difference in your mind of just simply asking for quotes? Like, Jennifer, if you're going to quote me, can I see the quotes first? Is there any distinction there? Is that fair, more like kind of more fair game to ask? That's very fair game, actually. And that is that's a good idea. Even it's not just fair game, but I think it's a good idea. What is happening right now in journalism and magazine journalism and newspaper journalism is there used to be fact checkers.

So when I would write a story for a big national magazine, I would have to provide the sources. So I would have to say, well, I interviewed Jordan Mark for this. This is his contact information, his phone number, his email. And then somebody who wasn't me would phone you and say, can I just confirm that this is how you spell your name? This is the quote that is going to be attributed to you that you actually said these words, you know, and they'll fact check certain hard facts about the story that I've written.

And with budget cuts, that rarely happens anymore, even at big publications. And so I think the onus falls back on the writer. And also if you're in the interview, um, I would think it would be to everyone's advantage that you ask to check for quotes and, um,

and for facts. So you can say, you know, can you send me the quotes that you're going to use so that I can fact check them? Um, and that is a very non-aggressive way of saying, I'd like to see what you're writing about me. Right. And that probably will will get you further than saying, I demand to see what

you've written about me before it goes to print. So a lot of it is in the approach. Okay. And okay, well, look, I'd like to move on to a different topic, but I want to just end with this. I think it seems to me that the reality is that like a lot of aspects of farming, you just kind of have to do it to get better at it. You have to start out. You're not, if you've never done media before, it's, it's nerve wracking. And so I want to really get you quickly to touch on, on the use of notes. And if they're, if they're, if you recommend that, like either, whether you go to the extreme of where you actually are trying to stick to talking points, um, which I know from the journalist point of view, it can't be that

desirable when they're, when they're, when they're, when they're interviewees do that, but, but just notes so that if you're prone to, to the jitters or whatever whatever you have a piece of paper to look at and keep you on track i'm just thinking of of that period that we all start off in when we're more nervous on the phone say for a phone interview right and if you happen if you know if you have a rough sense of what the topic of the interview is about let's say it's a profile of my farm and i i can anticipate that that people are going to ask me about you know different innovations that i'm trying out just to put them in bullet point on the paper um so that because your mind just goes blank sometimes when you're newer right and just so absolutely just that yeah I found bullet points

can really help keep you focused sometimes yeah and it right because sometimes your mind will go blank or I mean it's a very real and common fear of public speaking. And whether it's in front of people, or whether it's on the radio, or whether it's on TV, it can hit you. And that adrenaline push will give you an out of body experience. And it's not pleasant. It's happened to me many times. And so having a little bit of a backup does help you because you can just kind of refer to your notes. And it also helps you, I mean, you're going to be spending your time talking to a journalist or speaking on the radio or providing some sort of content for a journalist

or a television interviewer. And I think it's only fair that you get across some of your message as well. Politicians are excellent at this. And so when you're watching any sort of political debate, they almost ignore the question and go straight to their talking point and just drill home the messages that they want to get across. Now, I'm not saying that's a great strategy. a great strategy. But, you know, if the interview, say, is going in a direction that you're not comfortable with, if you have some talking points that you can redirect it back to what you do want to talk about, I think that's a really good media strategy for anyone. Well, isn't that essentially when someone gets media training, isn't it what they're told is to like, you're going to control what's said in the interview by sticking to your talking points. I mean, I know from your perspective as a

journalist, it's terrible. It's not at all what makes for good journalism, but such is the tension that exists, right? Your desire to get a true story out and in some cases, your interviewees desire to get their version of the story out. Well, it's terrible if it becomes cliche or if it's not spontaneous. It's not terrible if the talking points actually speak to the topic and advance the conversation. So if you know what the conversation is going to be ahead of time, as you suggested, if you have those questions ahead of time and you can think of some coherent, interesting answers, then it actually works out better. There are some journalists who feel that it's their job to catch you off guard or to, you know, provoke a really raw response from you by asking you a

question out of left field. That, you know, I don't do a lot of that type of journalism. I don't, you know, agriculture doesn't really lend itself to that. To the gotcha interview? Right, right. So, and I prefer like a really meaty deep conversation rather than this antagonistic journalist um source approach or journalist um you know interview type of approach so i guess again that comes down to following your gut and if you get the sense that this is what the journalist is trying to do if they're trying to get you to admit, you know, or trying to get you to talk about something controversial like GMOs or something, and the journalist has an agenda and they want a quote from you that is, you know, reductive or simplistic or something that they can just take that one quote and use it. or something that they can just take that one quote and use it,

then having your talking points, you know, avoids letting them control the interview. But I think a good interview is a really good conversation. If it's a struggle for control, then, you know, it's probably not going to be a pleasant interaction between a person from the media and, you you know a farmer or you know a chef or or whoever is being interviewed so okay well let's let's uh let's let's segue jennifer so let's say that a farmer has has got to the point where they feel very media savvy media ready just confident with media.

And they actually want to, in a sense, seek out coverage. I mean, what business doesn't want free advertising, right? So can we talk a bit about that? Do you have any tips or insights for how people like me can attract more media coverage? Because I can say it's not always easy. And as you alluded to earlier, there are certain people who are very good at it and then tend to attract the lion's share of the attention within a given kind of business area or whatever. So what advice do you have for people like me? Right. First, my first advice is to actually reach out to local journalists. So if you're a farmer in the Okanagan or you're involved in the food business, get to know who writes about food and agriculture and farming in your region and actually just send them an email and introduce yourself and tell

them a little bit about yourself. Just actually reach out to them. I often get phone calls from chefs or people and they work themselves into a lather because there's been a story that I've written and they might have been a good resource for me to interview or a person to interview, but I didn't actually know about them. And they just assume that I overlooked them for some reason. That's the ego coming into play again.

Right, right. That I flat out rejected them. And I went instead to somebody that they see as their competitor or something like that. You have to understand that journalists don't make a lot of money, first of all. And so we have to be very efficient with our time. of money, first of all. And so we have to be very efficient with our time. I started writing 20 years ago, and the pay rate for freelance journalism has not increased one cent since I started writing. So if I write a 2,000-word story today, I will get paid the same amount as I was getting paid 20 years ago. We have to be very efficient. And that's why we tend to go the easier route. We go with people we already know or people we've already written about because we already have that connection. We actually have their phone number. We know what they do. We have a relationship so we can

just cold call them and get a five minute, you know, interview done. So reaching out and getting to know people, which sounds really weird, but I love it when I get an email out of the blue from somebody introducing themselves and saying, you know, I've got these new products that I'm working on. You can invite them to meet with you and you can, you know, offer to let them taste your new product. So maybe you've got this new honey that you're working on. You know, it doesn't hurt. I know you can't give away product to everybody, but if you're strategic, you could save a little bit of your product and maybe introduce a writer to your product so that they have that in their you know in their inventory of knowledge when they get a

call from an editor saying anything new happening and you know the honey scene in the Okanagan beware of writers asking for free stuff right there there will be those people who feel that because they're writing about food, they're entitled to free stuff and they're not. So there's a fine line there. Okay, so yeah, reach out and know how to tell your story. This is one thing that I found was interesting when I was writing Food Artisans at the Okanagan. Some people were good at telling me their story, you know, how they got started, what interested them about farming or cider making or distilling or whatever it was we were talking about. So just kind of practice telling your story to yourself in the mirror or something like that. So when you're talking to a journalist, you don't go all the way back to your childhood.

And I got a lot of really like two hour conversations where I really only had about 10 minutes of stuff that I could write about. Some of that is social. My ears just started to burn as you said that. Well, guilty as charged. And here I am rambling along anyways, too. So, you know, cut yourself some slack, however. Know how to tell your story.

And I would say have your story written. So what I found really great on some people's websites is if they deal directly with the public, have your story written down and use your name on your website so many websites i went to where um the the the farmer or the the cider maker or the um you know the baker talks it says you click on our story and then it just says we we we we we and it doesn't say a name you don't know how to spell their name you don't know who they are. You don't know how to get a hold of them. That's the other thing. Please, everybody, put your address on your website if you have farm gate sales or something like that. I would often have to dig through four or five layers to find address or phone number. number. Put that front and center. If you're a direct to market retailer, I would think that would be kind of important to have your phone number and your email address and your retail address kind of on that homepage. Don't make people click too much. Yeah. So yes, please spell your name on your website. Don't be afraid to talk about yourself in the third person, I guess.

Yeah, so I want to go back to something you said, Jennifer. You were talking about making it easy for the journalist. And I think that for certain types of people, and I'm probably one of them, I, A, feel awkward essentially marketing myself to journalists. So you're, you're, and yet you're advising me to do that, to just let them know I exist and that I'm willing to talk to them. I feel like, you know, I think it's easy to feel like, Oh, that's bothering them or, Oh, that feels too salesy or aggressive or something now. So I'm, I'm really glad to hear that you welcome that sort of thing. Um, cause the other thing is, I think there are people like me who just feel like, you know, if I just sit here and do a good job doing what I'm doing as a farmer, that's all I should need to do. I should, the attention will come, but I don't,

I just think in reality, it's not true. I mean, it does happen, but it's, um, you're not in control of your business at that point because you're in a passive mode. I mean, you're actively working on the quality, which is great, but the other component is letting people know about it. And so unless you don't feel that the public is your customer, so maybe you grow vegetables and all you have to do is impress a few chefs and then you've you that's your sales and distribution method but if you are working with the public um you know even at a farmer's market or something yeah sales sales is part of the job

a lot of writers struggle with this too i I mean, a lot of writers are introverts and it would be interesting to know if a lot of farmers are introverts. I mean, it's a bit of a solitary occupation, right? You get to go out and you get to interact with the plants and the fresh air and the birds and the soil, but you're not, you know, on the street corner selling something. So I would say a lot of farmers are introverts, and that is just something to be aware of. So introverts are not going to be natural born salespeople. So in that case, you might want to set aside a little bit of money, or rely on a friend who is a journalist or a writer to write your story for you. If you're not able to do yourself justice, then maybe you outsource that. And I always tell people

that it's not that you're selling yourself, but could you not go on for hours about the quality of the products that you grow? Yeah. So focus on that instead. I mean, you know, don't think of it as selling yourself, but you're selling your business. Like you're selling your vegetables or your fruit crop or your wine or your beer or something like that. your wine or your beer or something like that. So if you don't feel comfortable selling yourself, then just shift your thinking a little bit over to much more comfortable talking about the quality of their product, the beauty, the flavor profiles, all of this. So Jennifer, maybe we could close out our conversation by talking briefly about social media and whether it's still worth the effort

and how to maximize returns on investment of time into social media. Do you have anything to say about that? I am not an expert in social media and I'm probably like everybody else. I have a love-hate relationship with it. It demands a bit of your time and sometimes a lot of your time and attention. It can be fun and it also can be aggravating.

I would say find an avenue of social media that you feel comfortable with and don't try to do everything. So don't struggle with having a Facebook page for your business if you don't actually go on Facebook. If you like to tweet, then focus on just building a Twitter account that makes sense. If you like Instagram, then be on Instagram. Don't try to just do it all. Don't try to be a blogger and a tweeter and an Instagrammer and a Facebooker and be on LinkedIn, like it's overwhelming. So I would say, choose, choose to do one thing well, as opposed to many things that you kind of ignore and feel guilty, and then get into a spiral of not addressing because you feel like you've let it go i think that sounds like

good advice uh i i think it in the past i made the mistake of i think a lot of us have whether we come to this conclusion ourselves or or kind of made to feel this way there's like a there's like a social media business FOMO fear of missing out where you're convinced that if you're not on twitter and facebook and instagram and everywhere else're squat, you're missing customers or whatever. And I really agree with your earlier point about not do not putting time into the stuff you don't, aren't going to want to do. Like I, I just haven't really embraced Twitter because I've just never, it's never become natural to me. Whereas because my wife is really interested in taking little photos of the farm, we, we have a fairly active Instagram account that, that she really enjoys doing. Yeah. And you'll build your community

around that. And then, you know, if it's fun, that's reason enough to do it. Um, it is good marketing, but don't expect that your sales are going to skyrocket because you're on Instagram either. I don't think social media can replace good old-fashioned putting some time into growing your business in terms of marketing. I don't think you can just say, I have an Instagram account. That's fine. That's all the marketing I need to do. I guess in the end, it comes back to the same idea that whatever you're doing, whatever social media you're engaged with, you've got to put in my, I'm just giving my own opinion here, but you, you, you have to put effort into it. Like I don't just

mean doing it. I mean, making, producing content that people want to consume, which is why I think Instagram ends up working out because people love looking at photography, but your email newsletter, if you have information that you need to get out, like the release date of your CSA, that's like the advertisement in the magazine. And you don't want to put out a magazine with pure advertisements unless you're like Vogue or something where you can get away with it. But most people can't, most magazines can't. And I think most newsletters can't. And you have to make sure that alongside the actual information that's good for your business that you want to get out, you need to, you need to give your readers or consumers like

just some enjoy, some more enjoyable stuff like like the main content that are in magazines right but don't i wouldn't overdo it i mean everybody's got a very limited attention span and sometimes i just need to be reminded oh right i got to get my csa thing and thanks for the email um you know it's it's not it's not bothersome to get a very short, succinct, like, you know, you've got 24 hours to do this, that call to action, and then maybe throw a couple really of your favorite Instagram photos in, and that's enough. I would caution against writing something that's too long because I think, you know, I'll sit and read something that's fairly short and snappy and with some nice visuals. But I don't know if people want to read too much. So I wouldn't think that you'd have to get too involved in providing too much other content.

I think I think it's OK to just tell them the marketing piece. Well, that's good. I'm glad I'm glad I asked you. Yeah, I asked you that one. Okay, Jennifer. Well, I think we're just about done here. Is there anything else that you want to add on this on this the topic of farmers in the media and media? Sure, just one last little piece of advice. So as you know, I ran around this summer doing a lot of photography, which is not actually my forte. But a lot of people don't have good quality, high quality print ready images of their business or of themselves. And one of the tricks to getting written about is to have those images available. So I will go to

somebody I know who's got an image library that has really good photos that I can just pull or ask for them and get them relatively quickly. So often a publication will want to run a photo of you if you are the main interview in a story. So have a photo available and then you're in control of what photo gets out there in the public. So as you I mean, that's this is this is great. I'm so glad you mentioned it because it touches on a couple of points that we already talked about. One is make journalists lives easier if you want. Right. But but on the note of photography, it's it's also important that you, you might have hundreds of nice photos taken with your phone, but they need to be for print.

They need to be of a, of a, a resolution that is printable, which is a large file, right? Large file. And yeah, I mean, they need to be large file, large format, good quality. Um, and, and also I think it's just so worthwhile to have that photo that you feel comfortable with. So that when it goes out, you know, what it's going to look like, rather than being shocked and surprised and upset about a photo that you don't think reflects you or your business as you would like to be reflected. Oh, that's such a good point.

In fact, I've really broken this rule. Like I should know by now. Honestly, I should know by now because I've scrambled to find the photo that is print quality size and that I like. And now you're combing through folders on your computer. So have... It's such a time waster. It's such a time waster. It's a it's such a time waster. And so have those photos available. And as you know, you let me take your photo and I'm an

amateur. Yeah, I did. I put my whole reputation into your into your hands. It's exactly so you took that risk. But anyways, it's just it's just one funny little thing that I don't think people think of. However, when I'm writing about a little restaurant, a family-owned restaurant, and if they have a really good photo of the interior of their restaurant and maybe a couple of shots of them portrait style, wow, my life is so much easier. And I will tend to write about them more, which is sad, but it's the reality. God, I can't believe we almost, I'm so glad I asked you if there was

anything else. This is so great because you even gave a perfect example. You interviewed me for your book and many others, but you interviewed me and you needed a photo. And so you came out to the farm. That was a long trip out here. I'm way out of the way. Yep. You're very, very busy. So you're telling me that if I had, when you asked me, if I had said, actually, I have all these great photos, why don't you take a look at these first? That would have been, see, I think I just made a bad assumption there. Uh, and even, even whether I had good photos or not, I just would have assumed you wanted to come out and take an original photo. Whereas if I had nice stuff, you would have been potentially just using one of those photos. Right.

And I mean, it was a pleasure to come and visit you at the farm. Yeah, but I'm delightful. Not everyone is. Exactly. And I have to say, I did drive for hours and hours. And sometimes, you know, I would drive up to the north okanagan and somebody would phone me 15 minutes before we were supposed to meet and say well i had to leave and do this can you come back tomorrow and i would say no i i live 200 kilometers away and then you're and

then you're just like you're out of the book you're out of the book yeah but it's just i mean and then you have you have that image and you can use it over and over again. I have my portrait. It sounds dumb, but I have a photo taken of me that I can use in magazines because writers often get asked for their photos to go along in the table of contents. And I have a photo just ready to go. And the more, now that I have those photos I use them all the time and I invest in a professional photographer to take my photo once every five or six years and that's all you need to do and it's it's there when you need it and it makes your life because

then you're not spending time searching through your hard drive, through your vacation photos of Maui, trying to find a picture of yourself, right? No kidding. That's great. Well, Jennifer Cockroaking, I just, I really want to thank you for taking the time to come on and talk about media preparedness. I think this will be really useful for a lot of listeners. So thanks again. Well, thank you.

And I'm happy to continue the conversation. So if people have questions about dealing with media, they can leave a message on the ruminant podcast website, and I'd be happy to answer questions there as well. So there you go, folks. I hope you enjoyed that. And listen, as I said at the start, I've been really busy on the farm. So in addition to not getting the podcast out last week I'm a little bit behind in responding to some inquiries that have come in of different kinds to the room and email address lately so if you're waiting to hear from me I will be following up with you very likely very soon so thanks for your patience thanks to anyone who writes I just really love hearing from listeners so if you have any inclination please consider sending me a note

that's all and I will very very likely talk to you next week. Bye bye. We'll live off chestnuts, spring water and peaches We'll owe nothing to this world of thieves And live life like it was meant to be Because why would we live in a place that don't want us A place that is trying to bleed us dry We could be happy with life in the country With salt on our skin and the dirt on our hands I've been doing a lot of thinking Some real soul searching And here's my final resolve I don't need a big old house

Or some fancy car To keep my love going strong So we'll run right out Into the wilds and braces We'll keep close quarters With gentle faces And live next door To the birds and the bees

And live life like it was meant to be