The Ruminant: Audio Candy for Farmers, Gardeners and Food Lovers - e.89: America Does Too Have a Food Culture! | Successful CSA Pickup

Episode Date: January 20, 2017

This ep: a conversation with Sophie Egan, author of Devoured: From Chicken Wings to Kale Smoothies--How What We Eat Defines Who We Are  Then, Robin Turner of Roots & Shoots Farm provides tips for setting up a good pick-up point for your CSA. Likes or shares from The Ruminant's Facebook Page are most appreciated, as are retweets Have you ever been to The Ruminant website?  

Hey folks, it's Jordan, and this is the first episode of a new season of the Ruminant Podcast. While there are good reasons to think that we don't have this kind of collective way of relating to food the way that other more homogenous, more tradition-oriented countries such as France and Italy might have, we still do actually have deeply ingrained elements of sort of national value that shape our eating behaviors in very profound ways. Hey folks, it's great to be back. It's been a long time since the last episode, and I thank you for still hanging around. And look, I'm really excited with the season to come.

I've got a lot of great episodes lined up for you. I'll talk a little bit more about this season and a few changes I've made with the show at the end of the episode. Today's main segment features my conversation with Sophie Egan, author of Devoured, From Chicken Wings to Kale Smoothies, How What We Eat Defines Who We Are. Sophie Egan, incidentally, is the daughter of Timothy Egan, who wrote a book called The Worst Hard Time about the American experience of the Dust Bowl in the 1930s. It was a book I enjoyed immensely and reviewed at theruminant.ca and that I can recommend heartily. I recommend Sophie's book too.

Not only does it make a case that America has a food culture, which is something that I think a lot of us have a hard time identifying, she reveals a lot of influences on that food culture that I didn't even really appreciate existed. Sophie's book is refreshingly free of prescription. For the most part, she just holds up a mirror that provides reflections that are normally kind of hard to see. After that, you're going to hear from Robin Turner of Roots and Shoots Farm in Ottawa about how to set up a really good pickup point for your CSA. But first up, Sophie Egan on her book, Devoured. point for your CSA. But first up, Sophie Egan on her book, Devoured. Hi, I'm Sophie Egan. I am the Director of Programs and Culinary Nutrition for the Strategic Initiatives Group at the Culinary Institute of America. I'm based in San Francisco, and I'm also a contributor to the New York Times

Well blog, as well as the author of the new book, Devoured, From Chicken Wings to Kale Smoothies, How What We Eat Defines Who We Are. Sophie Egan, thanks a lot for joining me on the Ruminant book, Devoured, From Chicken Wings to Kale Smoothies, how what we eat defines who we are. Sophie Egan, thanks a lot for joining me on the Ruminant Podcast. Thanks for having me. So I care about food, Sophie. I'm a farmer and I just love cooking and eating. I don't know what that makes me. I'm fine with being called a foodie if that's the easiest. But anyway, I think a common question among people like me is what our food culture is, like what the American food culture is or the North American food culture is, if I may include myself. And I think a lot of people like me fret about the

answer to that, because I think commonly, we have a really hard time identifying that food culture. And I think it's even easy to answer that because we're like a country or a continent of immigrants that we don't really have a food culture. But with this book, you're arguing that you disagree with that and that you think we do indeed have a food culture, or America does anyway, in the case of the book. Yeah, this is such a great point because when I say food culture, or you say, what is our food culture? That can feel really vague and amorphous to people, and for good reason. You know, culture is basically the set of values, a sort of collective mindset, or as I say, psyche, that people share. It's the norms, the sort of codes of conduct that often are

subconscious and certainly often are unspoken. It's just the kind of rules of the road, if you will. And I argue in my book that, you know, while there are good reasons to think that we don't have this kind of collective way of relating to food, the way that other more homogenous, more tradition-oriented countries such as France and Italy might have, we still do actually have deeply ingrained elements of sort of national values, and you could certainly extend that to North American values, that shape our eating behaviors in very profound ways. So while certainly diversity is one of our greatest assets as a place of, you know, the melting pot of immigrants and also places that are very open to innovation and constantly changing, open to innovation and constantly changing. There are some aspects that have been with us from our history and that continue to define food choices and ways of looking at food today more

than perhaps ever before. And I trace those ways of relating to food to three core values that we hold, certainly as Americans. For sure. And I mean, I'll just say I had a chuckle right at the get go of the book, because you point out that, you know, kind of by its very definition, culture is hard to identify, because it's just it's all around us. You know, it's it's it's the air we breathe or the water that fish swim in or something like that. As soon as you pointed it out and started offering examples, you start to see, oh, yeah, I mean, not only and actually feel like it's there's a bit of an irony. Not only does America have a defined food culture, but it's actually one of the more dominant cultures in terms of its spread in recent years or decades kind of around the world.

Oh, I think that's great that you noticed that once you actually start to sort of see the world around you in a different way, and some people have sort of described after reading the book, it's like, you've gotten in my head, you know, now when I'm in fish to, or excuse me, water to fish, stuff that sometimes is right in front of you that you just take as a given. But the book really peels back those layers of meaning and sort of brings into the light. Do you think that actually are far more important and more omnipresent than we maybe ever realized. All right, Sophie. So as you've said, or as you've identified, there are three core American values that have strongly influenced and defined American food culture, and those values are work, freedom, and progress. And so let's just kind of dig in a little bit. Sophie, how have American attitudes about work influenced the food

culture? So in the United States, we pride ourselves on our work ethic, and we are known around the world for that work ethic. And it's certainly something to be proud of. But we actually outwork even ourselves today in the US, about 200 more hours per year compared with roughly a generation ago. And so, so much of our identity is wrapped up in what we produce with our hours in a day. It's a thread that's very, very tightly woven into our fabric as a country. thread that's very, very tightly woven into our fabric as a country. And so what that means is that it doesn't leave a lot of time for other stuff, especially today. And so what really stunned me was that in the United States, we not only spend the least amount of time of any of the major developed countries cooking food or preparing our own food we actually spend the least amount of time eating food and

so it's this sense that food is just the fuel to get us through our busy days and on to the things that truly matter that leads us to basically you know do everything possible to kind of reduce the amount of time spent really thinking about food, obtaining it at the grocery store, and certainly preparing and cleaning up after it, as well as shoveling it into our mouths. It really has been with us from the beginning. And actually, I love this quote from the 1800s. A traveler visiting the United States from Europe suggested that our national motto be gulp, gobble and go. And I love that because I just think if only he could see us now. Can you can you talk a little bit?

Can you give kind of one example of how work culture has has come to change or define the way Americans are eating? Certainly. So one of the main examples that I share in the book and that has really resonated with countless readers is called sad desk lunch. And this is the practice of eating lunch at your desk. And certainly it's not the case for everyone. But many of us have been there at some point, maybe it's sad desk breakfast. In any case, it's this mentality that things are so hectic. There's so much to be done that you couldn't possibly stop and take 30 minutes and just, you know, sit on the bench and eat a sandwich. In North America today, just, you know, sit on the bench and eat a sandwich. In North America today, only about 40% of people actually, excuse me, about 40% of us admit to doing this practice.

And the rest actually is made up of people who don't even stop at all. And this is this really fascinating phenomenon that is so widespread that actually food companies are designing foods to better enable you to eat them while sitting at your desk. So for instance, popcorn flavors that don't leave a residue on your fingers. They're also seeing, you know, soups that are one-handable, particularly that are clear, such as a kind of a ramen liquid that won't stain your keyboard. Those are all kinds of examples of one-handable or sort of mess light food items are being introduced or expanded in the marketplace in recognition of how common this practice is. Sophie, I really think these are interesting insights because I think it is just,

it's too easy to look at America's kind of snack-focused style of eating or, you know, sad desk lunch culture and see it entirely as a negative. But I think what you've done is pointed out with it, that, that, that stems from something that could be more easily argued to be something positive, which is Americans, uh, focus on being productive on, on, on a really strong, good work ethic. And I think that's, what's easy to miss when we look at certain aspects of the food culture itself and perhaps lament them. when we look at certain aspects of the food culture itself and perhaps lament them? Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that because I really think this is one of the patterns in my book that I found most fascinating was the kind of double-edged sword of so many of these habits.

of these habits, you know, there's certainly many traits that sort of make us, let me rephrase, some of our greatest recognition or ability to gain a bird's eye perspective on ourselves and see that these things come at a cost. You know, quite a lot of disposable income that we've accrued because, you know, as on average as a population, because we have really put work first. But, you know, that means some things have fallen by the wayside. And you can look at, as you said, it's so much easier in a lot of ways to see other countries' cultures when they're not your own. And so you do, you look at a lot of the Mediterranean countries, and so many of us, if you have the opportunity to go to, you know, a Spain or Greece or Italy or something, and you sort of, oh my gosh, it's so romantic, this idea that they could sit around and have a two-hour lunch, and the food is so fresh and so on.

It's a very kind of idyllic life. But they have enormous unemployment or they have brain drain where all the young people feel there's not the opportunities for educational and professional fulfillment. So it's really just recognizing the trade-offs and sort of saying to ourselves, well, there are real reasons that we are in this situation. We've put other things as priorities, as a society. Yeah. And I think, I also think even if one is inclined to criticize aspects of American food culture, I think you can't begin to change it until you truly understand why those aspects of the culture exist. And I think, I think that's what you're identifying here. It's really cool. Sophie, we're not going to be able to cover, you know, everything that's in your book because, um, you, you know, you, you, you, you cover a lot

of really interesting topics. We're not, you have a whole chapter on wine culture in the States. That was really interesting. Um, you know, we're not going to talk about Soylent in this conversation, I don't think. But I do, I do want to focus on at least one more of the values that you covered, which is the core value of individual freedom and its influence on the food culture. And I think, you know, I'll start by saying, I think there's been lots of parody of the American or North American coffee consumer who goes into a coffee shop and orders a coffee with 18 special distinctions for that coffee. And it's easy to get cynical about that. But as you kind of delve into in this section of your book, that at least partly reflects this American value or, or emphasis on, on choice and, and individuality. And so what I'd like to do first is quickly get you to summarize a study that you cited in your

book about, about pens, I guess. Really quickly, there were some researchers that went into airports and offer people a free pen if they filled out a quick survey. And then they offered, when they offered the free pen, there were like four orange pens and one green pen or four green pens and one orange pen. And can you tell us what the researchers found when Americans, Anglo-Americans, I guess, versus Chinese or South Koreans were offered that choice? Chinese or South Koreans were offered that choice? Yes. So what they found was that time after time, this actually, this study has now been repeated many times in other contexts. They found that Anglo-Americans are consistently more likely to choose the pen that's not like the other pen.

And it doesn't matter. There's not a preference for orange or a preference for green. It truly is which of these is unique. And it is a powerful illustration of this largely subconscious desire that is so deeply rooted in American, really, it goes back to the Constitution and, you know, free will and free choice, that there's this desire to be distinct from others. And I'll add, I mean, you cite in the book, regardless of the color of the unique pen, Anglo-Americans in the study chose that pen 77% of the time versus some citizens of China or Korea choosing it 31% of the time,

which is quite a quite a revelatory difference. So I learned a new word in your book. What Sophie, what is chefing? And what does it have to say about the roots of American food culture? Yes, this was a new word for me as well. And this comes from a design thinker, a consumer insights expert named Michael Berry, based here in the San Francisco Bay Area. And he dubbed this term chefing for the practice of going to food service locations such as Subway or Chipotle. locations such as Subway or Chipotle. They're the assembly line style, fast casual or fast food chain restaurants that many of us have experienced. And this is the practice of basically pointing to, as you move your way through the assembly line, to the different ingredients and items that you'd like while dictating how you'd like them to be mixed into your order. And this chefing is really an effort among all of us participating in this massive

industrialized food system of uniformity and things that come prepared and are easy to and things that come prepared and are easy to serve quickly and conveniently. It's this way of sort of telling ourselves that these meals were made for us, that they were made fresh. Stunningly, people, Michael Berry found that actually just making eye contact with a food service worker while you are chefing makes you actually think that the food tastes better and tastes more fresh. So really it is this goal to have our meals personally created for us in a way that is going to maximize our bang for our buck. created for us in a way that is going to maximize our bang for our buck. And also just the taste preferences and perhaps even, you know, allergies or health considerations that we may have as individuals while operating in the reality of a food system that is set up to do the exact opposite

of that. So I'm glad you touched on that because let's, let's talk about that because this is, this is, you know, this gets at sort of an underlying theme of your book, which is that, um, while you don't overtly talk about the influence of American business, uh, on, on the food culture, it's, it's, it's inextricably linked to, to a lot of what you're talking about. And so, um, yeah, it just strikes me it just strikes me that this is one of the aspects of your book that's a little, to me, a little more depressing, which is that it may very well be true that the American value of individuality has really influenced the culture. But in the example you just described, it almost seems like a false individualism, you know, like we're in some sort of denial about the license we have or the control we have over the food that is available to us in the system.

Well, I certainly agree. It can be disheartening to think about this. But really, and I was making the point that we're kind of kidding ourselves to an extent. But my larger point was that our desires as eaters are often at odds. And so we want things now, but we want them fresh. We want things personalized, but we want them now. We want them cheap, but we want them to taste good, so on and so forth. And these desires are often butthead. And it's the fact, going back to the premium on productivity and work, it's the fact that convenience and premium on productivity and work, it's the fact that convenience and efficiency are more important than some of these goals in terms of quality and taste, or even truly having it our way, if you

will. That hierarchy is what puts us in the situation that we just described. That's a good point. What I mean is that the actual way to have it your way, and this is, of course, that famous Burger King slogan from the 1970s, the real way to have that is to cook for yourself. You can have it when you want it. You can put exactly what ingredients in it you want. You can make sure they're sourced the way that you want. You can add spices or not. You can eat of us see that. And or if we see it, it's not worth it. It's not that worth it to spend all of the time involved in getting the ingredients and so forth. So it's truly this realization that, you know, as the number of people involved in scratch cooking on a daily basis or the average number of minutes, as I mentioned, going into preparing foods continues to go down.

It's in recognition of that hierarchy of needs or hierarchy of preferences, I guess is a better way to say it. Yeah. And it also seems like a good example of how sometimes these different values clash, right? Just that in some cases, it's that, you know, American tendency towards work that wins out over a desire for true, you know, uniqueness or individuality in what we're eating. you know, uniqueness or individuality in what we're eating. And in that sense, yeah, then the chefing at Subway or at the coffee shop becomes like a best case scenario or a coping mechanism or something. Right. It's like it's good enough, essentially. Right, right. Sophie, one thing that is mostly absent from your book was a focus on foodies in America and a focus on this reorientation towards local agriculture. And something that was completely absent, I think, was the rise of the

celebrity chef. And I'm just curious as to why you didn't focus on that stuff in this book on American food culture. There were a number of reasons. The main one is that I really was aiming intentionally for this book to not be just for foodies. I hope that foodies read this book also, but my goal was to invite a larger, sort of cast a wider net, to invite more people into conversations about food. I wanted this book to be a way in for people who not only haven't even signed up for the food movement, but don't even know what the food movement is. So that was a very intentional goal of this book. The other reason, though, is that, kind of going back to the beginning of this conversation, this question of can we define a national culture, a national way of relating to food in the U.S.? I was really looking for the things that weren't kind of on either end of the spectrum in terms of extremes, but that were more of those common threads throughout our population.

So trying to cross generational lines, cross geographic lines, and cross socioeconomic lines. And that's a really important part of this, which is that there's a lot of work going on to kind of democratize organic, make sure that the local farmer's market experience is not something only for the elites, but at least thus far, a lot of that kind of fresh whole foods way of eating has been largely reserved for those in the upper socioeconomic brackets. And in my day job, I work on things that are actually actively trying to overcome that. But at least at the time of writing this book, those weren't necessarily, unfortunately, the defining ways yet

of our population as a whole. Well, that's great. So it segues into my next question, which is that in your book, you document a food culture that, you know, among other positive elements, features a lot of examples like eating on the go, eating alone, obsession with calorie counting and micronutrients, and culinary highlights like the Doritos Locos Taco. So in other words, or my take is that you present us with a culture that could easily fill at least some of us with self-loathing. But I get a sense that a major part of this some of us with self-loathing. But I get a sense that a major part of this project of yours was actually celebratory. And so I just want to ask you if I'm right about that. Is the American food culture something to celebrate warts and all? Yes, I

really think that this book is a celebration. And I'm so glad that that came through to an extent. There are things that I wanted us to, there were examples I used and even full chapters where the goal was to help us laugh at ourselves because I felt that only sort of through laughing at ourselves might we be able to change some of the things that we're doing that aren't to change some of the things that we're doing that aren't doing us any favors in terms of health or mental health. You know, a lot of the guilt, a lot of the deprivation and a lot of the extremes oscillating between sort of binging and, you know, juice closets or something. juice cleanses or something. But I also really wanted to give us credit for the things that we're already doing right or doing really, really well. And that has to do with that whole melting pot piece, which is that the fact that we are constantly changing and always seeking novelty, constantly changing and always seeking novelty, the sort of bad side being that we, you know,

eat a lot of processed foods and a lot of foods that are unhealthy because we appreciate innovation. The celebration side of that is that we're very open-minded as a people. We aren't forced to eat the same things or to do things, prepare foods in the exact same ways that they've been done for generations. And that's a limitation, I feel, of other countries that maybe do have those more easily defined food cultures. But it means that they miss out on a lot of these kind of collisions of cuisines that, to me, makes us really lucky to live in the United States. Well, Sophie Egan, it's a great book. And so I thank you for writing it. And I

really appreciate you coming on the show to talk about it today. Thank you. It it, and I really appreciate you coming on the show to talk about it today. Thank you. It was my pleasure. So guess what, friendos? I have a copy of Sophie's book to give away to a Canadian listener who either retweets a tweet associated with this episode or likes or comments on or shares a Facebook post associated with this episode. So head to the ruminants Facebook page or go find at ruminant blog on Twitter if you want to participate. I'll choose one person and I will send you a copy of the book as long as you are in Canada.

So one thing I've been thinking a lot about lately is how I want to distribute my CSA this year. I've moved my farm to a new lease in a new town, and while home delivery worked really well for me in the past, I've been considering a shift to pickup points where customers can gather in one place, grab their veggies, and go. Now there are lots of different ways you can set up pickup points for a CSA, and so I thought I'd try and talk to someone who's got a little experience doing it this way. Right now you're going to hear from Robin Turner. He and his partner Jess have Roots and Shoots Farm out in Ottawa. They currently manage a CSA that's roughly 350 shares each week and they make use of pickup points for their system. So here's Robin with some thoughts about how to run a successful CSA pickup. So I've, I mean, I've helped manage two different farms before I started our farm. And, and on all the farms, we've kind of done the same system. And that's just pre, you

know, packing each of the types of veggies into different bins and having a labeled sign that shows what people have to take. And they come along and fill their own basket from all the stuff available. Like ideally, you want more than 30 people picking up every week at each drop off. And I think we manage that probably over three quarters of our pickups. And a few of them, there's always kind of a debate over whether or not we want to keep them going or try and improve them. Yeah. So I would say that the ideal drop-off is not at someone's private residence. And the reason for that is that you want it in a busy section of town where the drop-off itself can sell new customers on the whole experience. And so our best drop-off is right downtown Ottawa in the Wellington in

Westboro. And we've created a relationship with the Mountain Equipment Co-op there. And so on Thursdays, they actually us their their best parking spot right next to the doors and you know we pull up our truck and we have two tents there and there's actually two people at that one and almost a hundred people pick up and so we're right on a busy road and there are loads of people walking by that that kind of want to check it out and we send a few extra veg so people can buy it and try it and then all of our csa members are there and they're all like you know chatting with each other and they'll talk to people newcomers who come along because newcomers come and say what's

going on here and so yeah that's the ideal thing is is getting that that critical mass of people and a couple very happy hosts who have a good time because it's so busy and who can create more excitement around what's going on. So MEC is a really good, you know, that's a less obvious example. But the ones that are really cool that work also really well are, you know, local food businesses like bakeries or butcher shops. businesses like bakeries or butcher shops that that we have a lot of success with because we find them like calling us as the CSA season approaches and they're like are you guys coming when we're there they you know they have like 50 people or 40 people rocking up you know getting their vegetables and at the same time they can they can buy a bunch of stuff private residences um have a few things like they can be great if they're in a neighborhood with a

lot of people and the person who's hosting you know knows a lot of people and and and it's kind of a fun atmosphere um but the drawback is that it's hard to create excitement around private residence because people feel they have to be quiet and they should stay out of the way. Also, it's really difficult to find a private residence that can convert into a late fall or winter CSA pickup. Because, I mean, if you're ever planning to do that in the future, then it's a hassle to have to find a different location in the same neighborhood. to do that in the future then it's a it's a hassle to have to find a different location in you know in the same neighborhood um and because most people just don't have like a heated garage and you don't want to move into their foyer or something um so so that's the challenge but uh but but the the positive side is if you can find people that live in a place that want to be the host which is also difficult to find then you then you can really create a long-term relationship

where you can really rely on those people to be a great host and to then really spread the word about what's going on. I mean the drop and go makes sense when you don't have very many people picking up, which in my mind shouldn't be your goal your goal should be to have lots of people picking up in one spot but that's there's no reason why you can't change that once you know if you have 10 people picking up and then drop and go makes sense as long as it's in a safe place where you know no one's going to steal the stuff um but like once people get wind of it then it's totally in your interest to have someone standing there who can field questions from passersby because we find we get a lot of customers we get a lot of CSA members from people in the area that see what's going on and if you have a drop and go that you're just kind of eliminating

that whole possibility that's it that I guess that's a really big thing is is with what we found over the years is that when people, you don't want people to leave a CSA pickup with an issue. You want that issue resolved before they leave. Even if it's just like a promise to have something there the next week, you don't want them going home and then emailing you and having to deal with all that administration and having them be annoyed. So having someone there at the pickup completely, it just offers so many possibilities of resolution, whether it's giving them something else if something's missing,

or promising to have that the next week, and then having to deal with this pickup person instead of a random, whatever CSA member who emails us. So we can get a list from a pickup host as opposed to answering 18 different emails. Every pickup experience has to be great. And having someone there is just critical. All right. So before I close out the episode, I think I need to update you about my thoughts about the show. A state of the podcast address, so to speak. I enjoy producing the Ruminant Podcast.

As a farmer, I spend most of my time working alone or with just a few people. And to the extent that my work is connected to others, it's in a fairly localized context. The podcast allows me to connect to and learn from a wider community of farmers and academics, and that's cool. The show also allows me to engage my broader interests in food politics and food security. But the show takes a ton of effort to produce, which is why I've struggled as a full-time farmer to produce it on a regular basis. To produce the episode you just heard, for example, required eight emails between myself and Sophie's publisher, four hours to read her book, an hour of interview prep, an hour on the phone with Sophie, 10 texts with Robin Turner, 25 minutes on the phone with him, and then four hours

of editing to turn all the raw material into something you might want to listen to. Meanwhile, I've just relocated my farm to a new, much larger lease, and I've also got a baby coming. It's due in the next couple weeks. Which brings me to two updates I want to give you about the podcast. The first is that the podcast will now be a twice-monthly, rather than a weekly show, and I'll now be producing seasons of the show of 10 to 15 episodes,

rather than aiming to produce year-round. In terms of format, most episodes will be like the one you just heard today. A long segment on a broader theme, and then something short and punchy at the end that focuses on the practical aspects of farming. The second update is that I'm probably going to launch a fundraising campaign sometime this season, in which I'll ask listeners for a small donation to the show. I spend about $500 a year and many hours producing the show, and after producing close to 100 episodes, I'd like to ask you all to consider making a small contribution. So that's it. Thanks for listening and for tuning in. I've got some great stuff coming down the pipe that I can't wait to share with you. And hey, if you ever want to talk to me,

shoot me an email, editor at theruminant.ca. I seriously love hearing from you. I'll talk to you in two weeks, everyone. Today I learned I don't need anything to live on except for a little old you. I've met a whole army of weasels, a legion of leeches Trying to give me the screw But if we bury ourselves in the woods in the country We're no closer, we never have laundry

We'll owe nothing to this world of thieves Live life like it was meant to be. Ah, don't fret, honey. I've got a plan to make our final escape. All we'll need is each other, $100, and maybe a roll of duct tape, and we'll run right outside of the city's reaches. We'll live off chestnuts, spring water and peaches We'll owe nothing to this world of thieves And live life like it was meant to be Because why would we live in a place that don't want us

A place that is trying to bleed us dry We could be happy with life in the country with salt on our skin and the dirt on our hands i've been doing a lot of thinking some real soul searching and here's my final resolve I don't need a big old house or some fancy car to keep my love going strong so we'll run right out into the wilds and braces we'll keep close quarters with gentle faces and live next door to the birds and the bees And live life like it was meant to be Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.