The Russell Brunson Show - Family, Faith, and Business: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (4 of 5)

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

In this episode of the Marketing Secrets podcast, I continue my in-depth conversation with Josh Forti, exploring the ideas in Atlas Shrugged and diving into the intersection of personal beliefs, entrepreneurship, and family values. Throughout this series, we’ve tackled sensitive subjects like religion, politics, and the evolving role of family, all framed within the philosophy of Ayn Rand’s classic. In this fourth installment, Josh and I examine the driving forces behind entrepreneurship, the challenges of staying true to core values, and how these principles influence both business and personal life. Josh and I discuss how our upbringings and relationships with our parents shaped our outlooks and entrepreneurial spirits. We reflect on how pivotal those early family values were to our development, particularly the roles of our fathers as hardworking role models and our mothers as sources of unconditional support. We also talk about the significant impact of maintaining a balance between masculine and feminine energy in relationships, a concept I first explored with Tony Robbins. Key Highlights: Parental Influence: How family dynamics and values shape entrepreneurial drive and personal development. Masculine and Feminine Energy: Insights from Tony Robbins on balancing energies in relationships and their importance in family stability. Entrepreneurship and Influence: The role of communication in making complex ideas accessible and influential to a broad audience. Philosophical Conflicts: Navigating the concepts of charity and self-interest in Atlas Shrugged and reconciling these with our faith and moral values. This episode is packed with personal insights on navigating life as an entrepreneur while remaining grounded in one’s values. Join us as we reflect on the intersection of philosophy, family, and business and how they shape our path forward. Don't forget to check out this awesome deal from Mint Mobile! https://mintmobile.com/funnels And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Get 70% off on Welch Equities' retail price at wealthyconsultant.com/secrets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Be more you this year and find them on Bumble. What's up, everybody? It's Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today, we're jumping into part four of our Atlas Shrugged series. As you know, over the last couple of weeks, I've been giving you guys access

to parts of a five or six hour long interview I did with Josh Forty back in 2020 after I first read the book Atlas Shrugged. So we're jumping right now into part number four. If you missed any of the prior ones, make sure you go back in the podcast and get episode one, two, three. So that way you have some context of what's happening right now. And with that said, I hope you guys enjoyed this part of the conversation. As a pride mover, as someone who's trying to change the world, this conversation should resonate with you. Thanks so much.

We'll jump right into the episode right now. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. So how did your parents, what did your parents do right for you? Because one of the things that I try to say, I try to say it a lot, but I don't even say it enough. My parents have played a absolutely tremendous, I owe so much of who I am today to my parents indirectly in a lot of ways.

My parents didn't teach me about money or things like that. That wasn't their gift. But the presence of hard work and family values, biting your tongue, even though it doesn't seem like I bite my tongue, oh my gosh, every day. The heat would be worse. It could be way worse. Some people would love that.

De-escalating situations. I owe so much of who i am to those and like yeah they messed up in a lot of ways and like like you said like so what were some of the ways like what were some of the things that your parents did right like what are the things that you remember for your parents yeah um i love my parents i was very very blessed. My parents for sure. Um, you know, my dad, I don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger. Um, because, and, um, just cause he was, you know, he was in the phase where, and I try to figure things out and make money. And like, it was different back then. Yeah.

But he also had a job, but he did side business. So he was always trying to figure things out. And I saw him doing these things. I saw like the job he didn't love. And then I saw like him doing stuff he did love and i watched him work really hard and then when i started wrestling i saw my dad like like that became the thing that made him connect to it which like meant the world to me and it was so important to him and what's cool is that my dad showed up to every wrestling practice he came to every single match i mean he basically he built up his he worked

his day job as a state farm insurance he built up his book of business where by the time i was wrestling he was able to take off as much as he insurance. He built up his book of business where by the time I was wrestling, he was able to take off as much as he wanted and ran itself. He was making money and had a residual income. I remember like my dad was the only one, like as soon as Russell pass got done, my dad would walk in and we do meet him to practice afterwards. Like never mismatch.

Never mistake. He was always there. I remember just thinking like, I want to make sure I have a business or something so that I can either. Like, like my dad was for me, like that was so important to me. And,

um, I said he wasn't super around when we were younger. I think he struggled as a younger kid, which I understand. But that phase of my life, like he was there and he was my best friend. And it was just, it was awesome. I love that. And I've been trying to do that with my kids now. And especially times where maybe I wasn't as good of a dad. I was too busy.

I'm trying to like down other spots, try to connect more. That was my dad for sure and then my mom um my mom is uh for me she was just like i think i wouldn't say i'm a people pleaser but i'm very much like a cheaper right like like i think when i started wrestling and i saw my dad got closer to me and then like i would win i saw him get excited. Like, like I wanted to win cause I wanted to impress man to this day. I think I still have that where like part of the reason I'm in this business, I'm doing stuff is I love when my dad sees it and just like, you know, like, like there's something I love, like pressing into this day.

Like that's just like, I love that win with my mom. It was like, she loved me even when I didn't win. Like that was something that was so so foreign to me. I remember I'd be cutting weight for wrestling. I'd eat in three days. I'd be so tired, so miserable. She'd come down and sneak in my room, bringing me for my mom. I can't eat. I'm not going to make weight. She's like, why don't you just quit then? You don't need to do this.

She's trying to get the opposite of my dad. She'd love me no matter what. I didn't care that I was trying to win or succeed. I couldn't care less. She just wanted me to be... She loved me just because I was me. win or succeed or didn't couldn't care less like she just wanted me to be you know she loved me like just because I was me and like that was weird and but so cool as well and saying both those principles like it's something I've tried to to weave in you know I got two different sides I'm trying to weave that into my kids and again so far from perfect but I think those are two things that meant the world to me that I'm super grateful for them you know

having like doing those things for me because I still remember those things now. So, there is, which, by the way, that's awesome. There's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without a dad, without a mom. And, like, it's interesting, because, like, I think a lot of my social media posts, like, I kind of come across sometimes, like, that heartless a-hole. Like, you know what I mean? But, like-hole, like, you know what I mean? Like Josh, like, you know what I mean? Like you talk about like take responsibility for your life. Everybody can do anything. It's like, if you're broke, it's your fault. Like that's one of my favorite things. Like if you're broke, if you're a broken American, it's your fault. Right? Like, but it's like, Josh, like you don't understand,

like you grew up and your parents are like still married. Like, you know, like not only do you have parents, like they're still together and they still like actually love each other. It's not even that. So to get like, it's's like you're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways so like what i don't even know what question i'm asking but like what would you like where could somebody find that and like how can what can we do as a society or just as entrepreneurs as like as producers to like help those people because i feel like that's a really big need sure and like it's one of those things where i'm like one of my big troubles with this is i always want to point back to the church i had a really awakening come to jesus uh moment back when i

posted uh this is probably a month ago or so and i posted on instagram actually and i think you liked it actually so i know you saw it and I said uh defund yeah defund the media defund fear defund career politicians fund orphanages churches and schools right and like I posted on Facebook I posted on Instagram and I was shocked at how many people were like dude fund the churches they're just like they're a bunch of pedophile people there too they're you know like so many people had like such this negative view of the church. And like, I grew up in the church. Like that's, that's what I knew.

Like how I knew how family works is because like, I saw that our own family, then I saw the church family. I saw the community and like how the church was involved in the community. And like the church that I went to, like after I moved out, like Grable, Indiana, like I, I worked three doors down from it. And like, they were, that's where people went to vote was in their gym and the fair. Like that's where people park. Like the church was like such this integral, integral part, that word, uh, part of the community. Right. And so like, when I saw all these people that have this negative view of the church,

like that broke my heart because I'm like, that was my solution. Right. Like, so like so many things, like if you don't have a dad, I can go to the church. If you don't have this, you can go to the church. It's like, what? And if that's your answer, that's cool. But how can we as producers of society and the people that are going out there and making the money, how can we help those that don't have what you and I had? It's interesting because what Mormons believe is the family is the central everything. That's God's plan is a husband and wife starts a family.

That's like, that's a, that's a, an eternal principle, right? And so you look at like the adversary, Satan, whatever you want to call him,

like his job, like if he can destroy the family, like everything else falls apart. Like that's, that's the war we're in right now. Like we think we're in a lot of different wars. The war we're in is, is Satan is attacking families.

That's it. Okay. Which I want you to finish this. I have to say this though guys and you this is not russell saying this is me this is why i hate the black lives matter organization not moving the organization so much because their whole principle is breaking apart the traditional family values anyway i know that's not your i'm not speaking for russell just but yeah if you if you google uh family the proclamation to the world you'll see my beliefs on family that we have it printed out eight foot on my wall in

my house like that's my belief family is essential everything and so satan is the way he destroys societies and nations and this world is to destroy the family and so when you see families are broken they're single mothers and single fathers like it's it's heartbreaking it's the saddest thing in the world and i don't know the right way to solve it i do know that it's vitally important like um i remember uh first time i uh met tony robbins started learning from him like one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine feminine energy like the masculine feminine is key to like a relationship like i could go off like four hours just on masculine feminine like i'm it's like the most fascinating topic in the world um but you look like if you ever see how tony fixes

relationships like you look at um traditionally if you go to traditional counseling they're like there's a problem right like what's the symptom of the problem they try to solve the symptom the problem and they they counsel takes years because it's a symptom of the problem tony's like like all the issues are all they're all symptoms of promise. The real problem is like when, when there's a masculine and a feminine and doesn't matter. Again, this is true with gay, straight, doesn't matter. But feminine, masculine energy, right? You take a masculine, feminine and that polar opposite, that that's magnets that magnetize together, right?

That's what attracts, creates traction, passion and everything. So what happens if a masculine and feminine, they're attracted together, right? That's how you start. That's how, how any relationship starts, right? And then you look at people get married. And it was interesting because what Tony talked about, so you look at typically in a relationship,

there's like what they call a seven year age. And why is that? And he talks about is the feminine, the way the feminine causes change is, um, how much I got somebody want to write a book on this? I just don't know. I don't know perfectly enough to,

to become a writer, but can say, yeah, I think my word, I got a lot of books would write a book on this. I just don't know. I don't know perfectly enough to explain. We're also supposed to become a writer. Yeah. My word. I got a lot of books to write. So this works in traditional marriage, right? It's masculine and feminine. What happens is one of the ways that feminine cause change is they criticize, right? Like if I see this with my wife, with friends, with girls,

if they want their friend to change their hair, they don't say, hey, you should get a haircut. They'll criticize to try to cause change, right? So what happens is that a feminine yo i'm wow that's so true so this is this is yeah yeah that's just one example of feminine energy there's a million right right but like so feminine masculine come together so like this is an example it's like those are criticizing the man but a masculine man doesn't care like it bounces off them like okay okay right what happens after seven years of of that happening eventually um instead of instead of balancing off which is a masculine response you start taking it personally oh as soon as you take it personal guess what

happens you are shifting physically from your masculine to effeminate you start shifting what happens you shift from masculine to feminine and boom the attraction breaks and it starts falling apart and then all the other problems start happening so the problem isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up, but that you don't communicate well. But the problem is the masculine feminine attraction is broken. If you fix masculine feminine to make men become men and women become women, attraction comes back and all the other symptoms disappear. It's fascinating.

And so that's from a marriage family, like relationship standpoint. Okay. Can I, I want to protect, I want to, I'm telling this because i want to talk about it from the family with kids in a minute but yes okay but i want you to now give me another example of that tony robbins has said because what you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond i know that's not what you meant it could be yeah that's okay i just want to make an example i want to do that clarification

the same thing with with the men who the men are responding over and over where women now become defensive they become more masculine and it's the other way yeah sorry that's not the only example i was just right the one time i just want to make sure we clarify that because i know things we're taking on someone's gonna be angry yeah i apologize i'm stupid like yeah i get it um but conceptually does that make sense like it's it's the the the break of the masculine feminine that causes the split which causes the disarmament. If you bring the masculine and feminine together, that's what causes attraction and causes passion and causes all these things. I look at my life. When we were struggling in our marriage, it's because I'm showing up feminine.

When I show up masculine, everything's great. When my wife comes in masculine and I'm masculine, we butt heads. It's fascinating. Anyway, I don't want to get deep in this because there's so much right right stuff but the reason i'm sure is because you look at this thing like now you you got a family right and the mother and father split right and then there's a there's kids who both either the mother and father and now what they have is they've got either very masculine person they're learning from or feminine but not they don't see both and so it shifts them and

it shifts their relationship like so many problems and so i think the way we help the most or can help the most is like um hermosi does this alex hermosi does this like um he he donates his money to um do you remember the charity he got our he got our first two hard awards um it's after school kids so like like these kids where they go to the like men who there's these kids trying to play basketball or lift weights or whatever who don't have masculine energy in their life they come and they donate their time and they help the kids that's awesome masculinity so they have they admit all of us we need male and female perspectives like we have like it's designed to have those things together when you lose one of them it's a tragedy it's like i think the way we can start helping is like how do we

bring programs where where they can see masculine energy and see the way to, to make a positive, not a negative thing. And like, um, cause a lot of times all they know is, you know, masculine energy left. And oftentimes there's a lot of, um, anger between, between the people when they hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these, these traits, which are like traits that are essential for them to develop. And I don't know, I don't know if that's the right answer or not but i feel like that's how we can help those things it's just like help me understand like like the kids who don't have um a father or a mother like they need that energy in their life to understand it to be able to i don't know so

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basic question, which I think the answer is obvious, but like we'll go down this road. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur? Um, I did early on. I did less, less so now. Why is that? Um, when i was got started entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing that's true last decade since shark tank on stuff back when i first started it wasn't everyone was confused like why would you do that uh it is cooler um also it's like i think the more you talk the more you either alienate people or you attract people and i think a lot of people who i have alienated have been alienated and i think i've attracted people i've attracted so like my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo who relate to it so it's less hard now than it was initially do you ever feel so like i believe that one of my super like

your superpower like your art your format is like marketing and funnels funnel specifically like that's like what you do and like i feel like you could just sit there for hours hours and days and forever for the rest of all of time right like my superpower thing that i like to do is this like communication i love constructing words in a way that people can understand right um did you i'm sure not but like the kanye west interview that joe rogan just did like three days ago i've heard about okay so like this has been a long awaited episode for like everyone thought it was ever gonna happen right because it was like teased and it wasn't didn't happen finally happens and so like i see this i had no idea it was coming it like drops and i'm a huge fan of joe rogan right

and i'm like oh my gosh it's amazing right and i sit down and i look online and all these people are like terrible interview not not worth your time. Couldn't get past the first 20 minutes, like anything like that. I'm like, what? So I go and the first 20 minutes were kind of like, I get done with this three hour interview. It's like top three interviews of all time. Right. And what's interesting is like, do you know Kanye about like how Kanye communicates like at all? Like, do you know? Okay. So like Kanye, there's so many references I want to use. Like, so like, like Kanye, like okay so like kanye there's so many references i want to use like so like like kanye like sees the world like fundamentally differently and like how joe describes in there

and the way that i described it is like you wouldn't know this like i said because psychedelic it's like a drug or whatever but like imagine being on like a psychedelic drug like in a small format like at all times like that's how his mind works like he's like sees everything it's like expanded and so even kanye said he's like the reason i have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because i have to like i see things in three-dimensional and then i have to put them in in a two-dimensional conversation right now i'm not trying to compare myself the way i think the way that way kanye thinks but like that this concept of like him people think he's beating around the bush right when really he's just trying to explain something

like one of the things i love doing is taking a concept like that and figuring out how to describe it in a way the average person can understand. Cause like I, I live in a different world. Like just like you live in a different world than the average person does. Like I live in a different world and that is by choice. Like I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the world the way that other people do. Like everything that I do, like I will intentionally engineer where like my life is different than the average person. Cause I want to see the world differently, but I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand. And so my question is like, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producers' heads that if more people understood them and thought like that, we could change the world for the better? But because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate it well or is not focused on that, that effect never happens.

Gotcha. Yes. Yeah. that the that that effect never happens yes yeah so i would say and that's why i think for me the this study this art of like funnels and copywriting and story does is so fascinating because that's what it is right like i was i was pitched like when we have an idea in my head it's like this big granite block right it's like this is the idea and to give it to somebody like this is the idea you're like i don't get it right right and then you start thinking about uh who is it start chiseling away at the stone right you start chiseling chiseling which eventually you have this like amazing statue right of like this thing that they people can see and they can understand

they can they gravitate towards i feel like it's the same thing with communication right or with any kind of idea you're trying to sell like the funnel is one thing like right now like hey you should buy my coaching programs like why like oh it's too big like i need to take them to a path simplify that so it's like a step-by-step process which is like chiseling away but then inside each step the process there's like the words and the stories and things you communicate to simplify it to get more and more fine-tuned like that's why for me like when we create a funnel we launch it it's like they're taking this big granite block and chiseling down to like now something that somebody can come in on this side of it they go through a process by the time they're at the end

they're gonna give us money they're gonna get a product and they're gonna change like something's gonna change for them i think that that's what marketing is right it's that process of like trying to simplify the message um and i think 100 that's why most ideas don't get out right how many times like i don't know how many times have you had this guy comes back to talk about who knows an hour or two ago too but like four or five people get the same idea, but then one person executes on it. It's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out, right? Like how much of your life and my life has been focused on the communication? And I don't necessarily like that part as much.

Like it's not my favorite part, but it's such an essential tool. I remember when I was learning, when I got in this game and I was trying to sell my very first product zip brander and i was like i put it up i did a picture of it buy now button and like tried to send traffic nobody bought and someone's like we need a headline so i'm like okay so put headline like we need like tell us what this does and so i like found some sites that kind of model what they did and the people started buying and it was just like it was like learning that process of how do you communicate i remember thinking like i never want to learn how to write community like for me it was copy like that's what we all call back? I remember thinking like, I never want to learn how to write community. Like for me, it was copy.

Like that's what we all call back to. Like, I don't want to write copy. Like, I don't want to do that. That sounds horrible. Um, and I want to hire someone,

but like the people I tried to hire was expensive. It was like 10 to $20,000 for a sales letter. I couldn't afford it. So I'm like, I have to learn this art of how to communicate. And like, so grateful because like, that's how everything we built has been is off like the communication of an

idea and doing it in a way that gets people to move. How do you decide what you're going to communicate? You have a lot of ideas in your head, and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything. You choose to share funnels and marketing primarily, and then you have some religion in there, which I would say probably is number two, maybe-ish, of what you communicate.

That's it. How do you decide? The battles I want to choose yeah yeah um that's a good question i think i mean part of it's like what's interesting like why did i want to do this interview like i read the book it was fascinating like and i don't know the answers and i thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud like this fascinating funnels are fascinating me because like i can apply it so many things um you know when i talk about wrestling but not the community you bump into oh yeah i talk about that like um so i think i think um it's just the the ideas

that fascinate me that i feel like have the most validity and can can do the most you know again as an introverted person i don't typically go out and have conversations people because i'm like uh you know as much as i can but if i find something like that does cause an effect right that's why like i practice telling my story so many times and i'll do a podcast and because like i know like now when i'm on stage in front of 9 000 people the stories and get people to move because i practice excuse me i practice it so i think it's i'm putting a lot of things out in the water and then seeing what things people relate to and then i go deeper on the ones that are like okay this one had an impact a lot of stuff i remember yeah i remember in first version.com secrets um there were seven eight chapters more that never got published i was going to publish them all you have copies of

those it was like yeah all my best stuff at the time i knew and i was going to publish it and it was all in the book i remember i heard an interview with um tim ferris and ryan holiday he's right holly at the, and they were both talking. Anyway, they were talking about their books. Both of them said that when they'd write a typical book, you know, Tim Ferriss' books are like this fat. My first draft was like twice as big. It's like to make a book go from good to great,

it's not like adding more. It's cutting. It's like I cut two-thirds of my book to give you this one. And then I think it was Ryan who said the same thing. He's like, it's not like, it's the same thing. My books start, the first draft is twice as big as the final one. Then the next thing. He's like, it's not like they seem to my book start at the final,

the first draft is twice as big as the final one. Then next section is cut, cut, cut, cut. I remember going back.com secrets that night. And I was like, okay, based on that,

if I like, what would I cut and how would that do? And I cut seven chapters out. And after it's done, I was like, so scared to make, this is like, I love these things,

but I was like, those things aren't that important to like get people what they need to actually be successful. Some of those things ended up being in.com secrets and experts, secrets places. But yeah, I wonder that first, I was going to say,

I wonder if she just published the first thing or if she like had a 2,700 page book and cut something out of it. That's crazy. Okay. Um, back to the question in the car and, and I want to tie this back to the book. How has growing a multi-hundred million dollar, like making hundreds of millions of dollars, having a roughly billion dollar company, being the CEO of 400 employees, like how has that changed your perspective of the world?

I think, so many season in my life where I thought that if I was going to create something, if I was going to do something, the way I was going to do it was by me. Does that make sense? Yeah. In fact, if you look at my history, the first decade of business, the businesses were about me. They were me. I was the sole owner the sole purpose you know person

um and on this journey when we started it was it was so different it was like how do we like what's the team look like how do we like who you know todd was my first time i had a partner it was like that was so scary for me and then the greatest thing i possibly could have done right and then run other partners and then employees and man and make stuff. And like, I don't know, it's just, it's been fascinating just realizing that like to build this, it wasn't about me. It was about, um, I don't know, just, just that, that whole thing. And I think, um, anything great.

A lot of times there's a person that gets credit for like Elon Musk gets credit because whatever Bill Gates or whoever the people are, they get the credit for it. But it's like, you start really seeing, seeing um how many people are involved to make something amazing you know i mean i think that's the biggest thing for me was i started growing it and it's it's frustrating not frustrating for me because i enjoy i like i like you know people are also invented click funnels i think i literally don't know how to code anything i got one dot of code in that word i like maybe once i leaned over todd's shoulder put a button and then he had i like maybe once i leaned over todd's shoulder put a button and then he had deleted like you know but i think it's cool to when you see that

like the like how many and i before fun hiking live every time we start we bring a whole team together and i see you know i'm the one who's on stage but i am fully aware that like that it is not me like this is us like this like it wasn't for this team these people like all of you guys for all your contribution this this wasn't possible. I want to always ground that because I think so many times that the leader or whoever gets a big head where they think it's them. And I don't know. And I see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still

drink their own Kool-Aid and still think it's them. And I think that's my shift in the world, just understanding like the great things, like the things that we remember, the things that are legacies that go on and on and on. There may be a head or a person that the branding tied to, but it's like there's this group of people that created something amazing. How do you stay grounded? One of the things that I – I am a huge fan of Russell Brunson, right? Like I, like, because like, for me, like you're the person I look up to as not just, Hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money, but like, Hey, I like, I want to, I want to be like, I want to have a character that you have. I don't want

to have, like, I look at Grant Cardone and I don't, you don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone, but I can. Right. And like Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself. Right. And like, don't get me wrong. Like I've learned a lot from Grant Cardone, especially about money. Like he's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm like eternally grateful for that. But if like, if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, like where that was the focus, I mean, like I watched him, I was, I was there when, you know, it was the, the stadium down in Miami or whatever. Right. When it was, you know, it was all about him. And it was, I think he even got up on stage and was like oh yeah russell everybody says russell's the greatest salesman but i'm the one that packed the house right and i'm like dude like you know what i say like like why why is that

necessary and so like how do you how do you stay grounded yeah right because like i think there's it's so fascinating to like watch different type people and i know like ty lopez for example like for a while there it was like all about time like now he's kind of like gone more behind the scenes but i'm like each person i watch whether it's ty or gary or grant like they all have a different way about them and like you have your way about them like the one that i see is like the most grounded humble like is like there's nobody that's looking at you you get up on stage and you're like you know what i mean like you know like right and then you walk up and grant's like but like you it's like yeah it's that awkward of like hey i'm just over here like how are you grounded in

that like how do you how do you not let it get to your head because it would be so easy for you to to get wrapped up in your own head um someone told me it's because my wife they said if you married anybody else you had to be so big i think um well so i like met your wife for the first time today i mean like we had crossed paths but um i said when you were getting haircut um i was like so what's it like being married to russell she goes he's just the sixth child of mine. I'm like, oh boy, she's a big kid. That's awesome. Hey, funnel hackers, let me paint you a picture. You're running a business. Your funnel's finally converting like crazy

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Go to linkedin.com slash clicks to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash clicks. Terms and conditions may apply. LinkedIn is the place to be, to be. I think I say it's two things. We kind of talked about this earlier but i'll tie back to like the first one is that i am fully aware that these these ideas are not mine right like i didn't invent the funnel i didn't invent any of the stuff

all i know is that i was on a path in a journey i was given the thing and the next thing and i was like freaking out i was putting them together and like that's part of it's like i think this stuff's not mine it's it's it's stuff that was given to me and tested and so like i'm so grateful for that like i'm it's never me like oh this look what i look what i invented like that's so annoying because it's not right like um these are again come back to these ideas these thoughts these desires things that were given to us and so i think that's the first part the second part of it is and i see this a lot in people my in my world who who um they have some success and then they're like this is my person i made them a bajillion you know and like i hate that too because it's just like

like you help them in a piece but like but they did the work right i'm very careful like to always like when i'm talking about any of our success stories like i didn't make that person like we had this super cool opportunity to be piece of their journey. Right. We helped them give them some ideas and a tool, but they're the ones that kill. I got to work takes to build what they're building. Like I didn't do that.

They did that. And like, I'm grateful that they did. Um, and, and I'm even more grateful that I got to be a little piece of that. Like I got to be part of that journey. I get to see that and just like have the impact of like,

Oh my gosh, because I killed myself, wrote those books. And because Todd killed himself, wrote software and I was able to communicate communicate it like, like they're able to do this thing. And it's not all me. I fully, it's not on me. Like I know what every entrepreneur has to go through to be successful. And it's not a mentor who gives you everything. It's just like a lot of people who are peace. And I've had mentors who, who gave me a piece that I'm so

grateful for, but then they try to take all the credit, like, oh, this is when, and I hate that too. And so I think, I think those two sides, number one is like, again, I, I don't think these ideas are, are something I came up with there. They were given to me and I was going to steward them. And so because I was able to aggregate them and like, there's the thing. And then number two is just, um, my belief that I didn't help anyone. Like, even like when you said like you and Katie, like I felt awkward, like, Oh, like I, I didn't do anything. Like luckily some of the stuff that you resonate with you and it's like a little piece of your journey i'm so grateful for that like the fact to see you do stuff now it's like

so much fun for me to watch you and like just knowing like man because he bumped into me like maybe something happened and now right he's doing this stuff and this work it's so cool seeing how you're impacting people and i think those are reasons why my head gets big because i don't think it's me um i'm grateful that i get to be a piece of it of the journey um but i'm not the creator of it all right i want to look back to the book okay can we talk can we just read it you guys want us to read it to you yeah what was your like what was the thing that fascinated you about it like when you boxed me dude you were like dude i read it and i'm geeking out about i just want to geek out about like what like what about it how did you so fast like what did you want to geek out about it because i have a question that i want to ask like later on about it but like what was the thing that like just made you geek there are a lot of

things i think the biggest thing that i was really excited we talked about earlier was just i know you that's good biggest thing earlier in your direction yeah the the biggest thing earlier was just um this this cause again, if those who are tuning in late in here, there's a whole, it talks about greed, right? And that, that concept of greed versus charity, like again, the book very much is like greed is good as thing that causes production and you should care about yourself. And then good things will happen.

Like you'll create jobs and everything. Everybody else take care of yourself as long as you're, you're caring most about yourself, which I thought was was kind of cool but then also i had the other side of uh with like my beliefs in christ and christianity and all these things like that where it's just like oh like how does that reconcile with faith hope charity and love and like you know serving everybody else and like and so that was like that's probably the thing that got me the most i think i keep i think about that a lot especially in politics because again i'm not deep into politics i'm not going to talk about who i'm voting for not voting for it doesn't matter um but i see that on both sides i feel

like on the republican side you see a lot of this stuff like like this and then on the democrat side you see a lot of like the the charity stuff and you and and again and my notes i wrote this actually initially because um i wanted to talk about this like i'm a big believer that like there's not like a right and wrong there's there's good in both sides right that there's not a right and wrong. There's good in both sides, right? There's not a right and wrong side. Yeah. Things are messed up on both sides. I think that there's – it's just how the world works. Like Satan and – there's eternal struggle between God and Satan and Christ.

This is always happening. So there's two sides, and there's God-like principles and things on the right that are amazing and then there's satan that's twisting things and jacking up same thing on both sides like i see everyone fighting like tooth and nail i'm like i bet you if we all sat down the majority of all issues we'd all agree on but then it's like these fringe things that cause like so much hatred and fighting and it drives me crazy and i think that this book's a perfect fringe things that cause like so much hatred and fighting and it drives me crazy. And I think that this book's a perfect example. Like I believe so much in some of these principles, but there's also like the opposite principles.

I also believe it. And they're both right. And it's like, and that's what, you know, I mean, if you, if you miss the beginning part of the interview, we talk more about that, but it's like the greed and the growth and contribution, that transition is like the key that just fascinates me. Yeah. the growth and contribution that transition is like the key that just fascinates me yeah so like what part of the like what part what parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith like what what what part of the books did you have like the most the hardest time with because of your faith yeah um uh the producers in the book the the minds the people i connect with because

like that's who i i i self-identify a producer, someone who's obsessed with like production and creating and like, right. Like I, I really, so Hank Reardon, he's a Dagny, like all these people, like I really like, like they're cut from my same, from my same cloth. And it's, it's, as they're growing this stuff that they didn't give back that they didn't like, that's the best thing. Like, I felt like they, they weren't rounded out characters. Like, then that's the biggest thing for me it's just like i don't want to be like i like first i want to be hank reardon like he's freaking the man he's right like like yes

that's all i want to be but i wanted to see him have like that change of heart where he's christ like yeah of his own free will not because the government came with the gun and told me i pay taxes i wanted to see his character develop and realize that oh my gosh like i should be serving people because i love them not because the government's forcing like like that's that's the piece i wish because that's that's like never i mean it like never took that turn like the book it was like you you almost like expected it and then it didn't happen they got worse and worse and worse and then they wait till everything's like people are dying everything collapses and then like the lights in new york go out and they're like okay now we come worse and worse. And then they wait till everything's like, people are dying, everything collapses. And then like the lights in New York go out.

And they're like, okay, now we can come back and build. Now we can come back and build. But like, even when they come back and build, it was built like by our new law of, right. Of like, basically. So actually one of the things that's fascinating about that was, was it in, gosh, it was towards the end. When, was it Galt? I think it was Galt. It was like, basically, yeah. I think? It was towards the end when was it goal? I think it was goal.

It was like, basically, yeah, it was, I think it was during speech when he was like, um, all we, all we wanted was like, we, we gave the minds inside, like we gave all this stuff to you guys basically. And like, kind of being like God there, but like we get like here we did, we, we created all this stuff. We created these jobs. We created these resources. Like we gave it to you and all we wanted from you guys was for you to let us be in our own head. Like, let us, our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else. And you took all that. And not only did you take it all, then you said, no, you're bad.

And we're going to take that away too. And so we're all going on strike because of that. And like, I, you, you relate to that so much. And then it's like, yes. But then they explain how they live. And it's like, you expect them to have that change of heart, then it's like yes but then they explain how they live and it's like you expect them to have that change of heart but it's rather but no it's because we are amazing and because we are the great minds and we must live by this code it has nothing to do with like actually giving back or actually contributing to society it's like they didn't care about

contributing to society that just happened to happen yeah which is cool which is which is why again government should let producers produce because the byproduct is really good right right for everybody it's like that part is so much i relate to but then and part is probably because ayn rand didn't believe in god like so that wasn't you know i mean it's like that wasn't part of her values and so yeah it's tough because then she she weaved that i mean i just i just wish at the end the book would have been like and then hank reardon realized that he could help all these people himself. And so he built orphanages and changed all these kids' lives. And you're like, yes, he's like, ah, like that would have been amazing. You know, he found out about OUR and he went and donated money

to save all these children. But he did it on free will because he had that change of heart. Because that's like, I don't know. I don't want to die at the end of my days. And like, I produced and created jobs, but like, I didn't care about people. Like, ah, like, I feel like that missed the mark. Hank Gruden, you say, is the person you related to die at the end of my days. I produced and created jobs, but I didn't care about people. I feel like that missed the mark. Hank Gruden, you say, is the person you related to most in the book? Yeah, I think so.

I wanted to be Francisco, though. He was pretty sweet. Who do you think I related to most in the book? Oh. Who was it? It was a relatively main one. Was it? You were close. Oh, was it Francisco? Yeah, one was it you're close oh is it francisco yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah he was he was cool right from the beginning he he like fascinated me and like i

knew like right when like that she introduced the or the plot twist of where like he like ran off and became the playboy or like picture himself as a playboy or like whatever. Like I knew right then and there, I was like, I don't know what the plot, like, I don't know what the connection is, but I like know this is going to come back around. It's like not going to be how it seems.

Right. Like, because like someone like the mind doesn't shift and like, then he stays in the scene or whatever. But like, he fascinated me because I, like he strikes me as someone, Hank Grady didn't care about the crowds.

He did not at all. Right. Like he hated going to the wedding. He hated going, like it was by force that his wife would like drug him out of there that one time. It was always like, oh boy, I just want to work in my office or whatever.

Like I'm actually not like that, right? I'm actually much more the, like I do like the crowds, but I don't like the crowds because like I need praise it. Like, don't get me wrong. Like I like being on stage and you know, like doing this type of stuff.

But like for me, me wrong like i i like being on stage and you know like doing this type of stuff but like for me like i like the crowds because i've i love people and i don't it's funny because i like i actually don't get along with a lot of people like in real life like i'm like whenever i go to the airport i'm like i will pay whatever it takes like put me on a plane first the least amount of people i have to deal with whatever because like i don't want to have to interact with people i want to interact with but, I love like studying and understanding people's minds. Right. And for me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds. Like you look at his rallies, dude, like you can't ignore them. Like they're just huge. Um, uh, my, uh, fiance's, um, parents, like they went or her mom and, um, her mom and

Courtney went yesterday. I think it was last night to Omaha, like twenty nine thousand people showed up in the bitter cold. Oh, I like a last minute. I was like to, you know, and like that type of control or not even control, but like that type of influence to be able to go through. Like, what is it that makes people go and do that? Like and so like Francisco in the book, like he he was the partier guy and like he went and he was with the crowds and he was very good with words and articulated and then he but he sold me like at that wedding and i'm telling you but like it was good because to me there's there's more than two ways but like super simplified down there's like two ways to to affect like influence people there's one which is the indirect which is like build a software company it's build a product it's build an iphone right it's like

you're not directly influencing them with like your words or like whatever like but it's like influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service is going to go out and change the world. And then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words. Right. And so that's why like Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build a product, right? He did it through his words kind of sort of, but like, to me, that's so fascinating. And I'm like, if I can figure out how to do that, like, that's how I can affect real change in the world. And it's funny because you have had such a massive influence on my life,

but probably a year and a half maybe-ish into me knowing ClickFunnels, I was like, man, Russell's doing it all wrong. And I had this thing of if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, he would have a bigger impact. And I had this limited belief of this is the only way you can influence impact people is by like going out there and actually like speaking to them right but like that's my superpower my gift so like in the book francisco

was the one i think that best represents like my style of like trying to go out and do things i find it interesting about hank grader with you because i think it's like i'm so i gotta be in here building funnels doing some stuff right like there's scenes of hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night and he sees he watches like the steel being poured it's glowing and yeah he's like enjoying that like for me it's similar where um like i do the stage thing and things like that um i i get less value out of like even interactions hard but like i love I spent a lot of time on social media and I just looking at the people that I know are in our world and watching what they're doing. Cause that's like me watching the steel.

Like, I'm not like my, my mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do. Right. I'm giving you like a blow horn so you can go do it. Yeah. It's like, that's more fast for me to sit back and it's funny for my wife.

I, and then to drive her crazy. Cause then it'll happen. It'll get done. And then I, I screw you off so i don't want to like talk to anybody i sit in the room and i just like watch like what people take away and then who they're talking to like i spent a lot of time just like watching that's for me like looking over the steel and be like i gave them a trumpet or i gave them a blow horn and now their message is going out there i just kind of watch it and so for me it's like i don't want to teach personal development and this and

that that but i want to like empower or give these tools or whatever tools that are so that, so that you can and, and you know, whoever, all the other influencers are to be able to do those things. Does that make sense? Like I've got an amplifier. I'm an amplifier of other people's messages. Um, and my message just happens. Like, here's the application that you need to amplify your message. Yeah.

Letting everybody else go and do it.