The Russell Brunson Show - Fulfillment and Achievement: A Deep Dive of "Atlas Shrugged" with Josh Forti (3 of 5)

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

We’re back with part 3 of my fascinating interview with Josh Forti and our special series exploring Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. In this installment we unpack powerful lessons from the book that continue to shape the way I think about business, value, and success. We focus on what it means to be a “prime mover” and discuss how producers can create meaningful change without losing their identity or purpose. Josh and I explore a variety of deep topics in this episode, from the importance of fulfilling work to navigating societal expectations around success. One of the standout moments was when we discussed Myron Golden’s “four levels of value” framework, which breaks down the hierarchy of contributions—from manual labor to visionary leadership—and why each level plays a crucial role. This conversation pushed us to ask hard questions about fulfillment and whether everyone needs to be an entrepreneur to feel truly alive. Key Topics and Questions Explored: Fulfillment vs. Achievement: Can someone find deep fulfillment in roles that society views as “average” or non-entrepreneurial? The Four Levels of Value: We break down how workers, managers, communicators, and visionaries contribute to building a thriving organization. Success and Societal Criticism: How do you thrive in a world where success can often be criticized or misunderstood? Balancing Ambition and Contribution: What does it take to succeed while still giving back to your family, community, and society? The Art of Writing as a Journey: I share insights about my next book project and how it’s reshaping the way I think about storytelling. If you’re someone trying to balance growth with purpose, or you’ve ever questioned the path you’re on, this episode will resonate deeply with you. It’s packed with thought-provoking ideas, actionable insights, and a few personal stories you won’t want to miss. Tune in, and let’s explore what it really means to shrug off limits and step into your full potential! Don't forget to check out this awesome deal from Mint Mobile! https://mintmobile.com/funnels And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Get 70% off on Welch Equities' retail price at wealthyconsultant.com/secrets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Air Transat presents two friends traveling in Europe for the first time and feeling some pretty big emotions. This coffee is so good. How do they make it so rich and tasty? Those paintings we saw today weren't prints. They were the actual paintings. I have never seen tomatoes like this. How are they so red? With flight deals starting at just $589, it's time for you to see what Europe has to offer. Don't worry, you can handle it. Visit airtransat.com for details. Conditions apply. AirTransat. Travel moves us. With TD Direct Investing, new and existing clients could get 1% cash back.

Great! That's 1% closer to being part of the 1%... Maybe. closer to being part of the 1%? Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31st, 2025. Visit td.com slash DI offer to learn more. What's up, everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We are coming back right now with part three of our Atlas Shrugged series. Again, this is from an interview with me and Josh Forte back in 2020. After the very first time I read Atlas Shrugged, this was a fascinating five or six hour long interview. Hopefully you had a chance to listen to hour number one, which we posted two weeks ago, and then

hour number two last week, and now we are on hour number three this week. I hope you guys are enjoying this interview and it's getting you guys excited about all the things related to you as a prime mover, as a producer, and someone who's trying to change the world. So with that said, I'm going to jump into part three of the episode on how to shrug. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online.

My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Okay, I want to circle back to one quick thing, and then we can move on. So the question I was trying to ask was, like when you were like, hey, there's the technician, or there's the plumber, or there's this, or there's that, or then there's the person that comes in and makes it rain, right? Like, there's only a few people in an organization like make it rain. Right. Like you in, in ClickFunnels, like you make it rain.

Like you're the one that like brings it in. And I'm sure there's other people like to a certain extent, but like you are that person. And there's probably what you probably have, what a hundred, 200 people on the support team that don't actually make the company any money, but they do play a critical role in the sense of like the company couldn't function without them. Right. And so like to those people there,

how does somebody who like two part question, one, can you live your best life in a position like that? Like, could you be most alive and fulfilled and like, like live a great life doing something average like that? And number two, like, does that person need to go learn how to make it rain? Like, does everybody need to be an entrepreneur? Does everybody need to be like, you are so fast and you got this whole community of funnel hackers and like, we're gonna go out and change the world. And like, we don't get, we think differently. We do it differently with all this stuff. Like, does, would it be good if the whole world thought that way? Or like, do we need people that don't think that way? Um, there's a time in life where I thought everyone should think

that way. I don't think so now. I think some people are like, I have family members who love what they do and they're obsessed with the art. Like the art is what they do. Like some people, like some, like I've had good masseuses and bad masseuses, some masseuses, like that is their art. You can tell you're just like, oh my gosh, like they're the best at their, their craft. Um, and I think that's okay. I think what, if it brings fulfillment, like that's more important.

Um, but if people aren't fulfilled, that's, that's the second question is like well if you're not fulfilled then why like you know and um i think one of the most powerful things myron golden um taught this fun acting live and he taught it to comical a couple times uh he doesn't think all the four levels of value and it's so fascinating because that's such a good yeah so the first level of value for those who haven't heard this before is uh and it talks about and he i'm gonna not do it justice like myron's a man the greatest speakers of all time those who haven't heard this before is, uh, and it talks about, and he, I'm going to not do justice. Like Myron's a man, the greatest speakers of all time.

Go YouTube. I don't even know if it's on YouTube. Anyway. Yes. But so bottom level is, is people work with their hands. Right. And this is the hardest work.

Like someone building, building persons, like actually building the building or typing, you're doing support or like whatever the thing is like, they're working with their hands. Like that's the lowest level value, right? Like the most you make when you're, when you work the hands is maybe 50 60 70 000 you're like but

you're tapped out you can't get higher than that now excuse me that's your calling and you're good at you love it like go all in like become the best in the world that thing and that's totally cool but you're not but like you cap out on salary you can't make more money at a certain point because that's what the value of of that tier value the next tier value then if you move up one tier is management right someone who can manage all of the workers right and there's people like one of the big mistakes we made inside of click phones we took the people inside of our team who are the best workers we and we um upgraded them out into management and they were horrible managers amazing workers

moving the management management they weren't managers like this different mindset and so it's like they can go learn that but i thought where they were that's not where they were gifted right and a lot of times it was irreparable we couldn't move them back down because in their mind like i'm a manager now it's like no i think you know one of the things we learned is like someone can work that i'd be a worker and make more money than the manager right because just because sometimes their skill set like like programmers and developers like getting an amazing programmer to to code something is a lot of times worth more than the managers managing that person. But in most businesses, most organizations manage this next tier, right? Because you make more money as a manager because you're managing

a lot of, excuse me, a lot of workers as opposed to one. Then you go up the next tier value and it's like the communicators, right? People learn how to talk and to sell. Like that's the next thing. You make more selling and you managing and you typically make more managing than you actually doing the thing. And not everyone's going to be great salespeople like i think it's a it's a teachable skill i think you may have seen my early videos like anyone thinks this is a gift that i was born with it is not it's something that's been developed guys you should go look at russell's old videos they are so amazing they are the worst ever yeah when i was your age i was i would not have been able to do this like it's it's crazy um and so that tier is is communicators and the top tier are the visionaries.

Like imagining that you're using your brain to make money. So you're using your brain, your mouth, your management skills, or your hands. Like those are the four tiers of value. And so I think wherever you fit in there, it's like, that's cool. Like we need people, all the tiers, but like I did a podcast about the other day. I'm like, um, if you're going to be, whatever you're going to be at, like, don't just be a person doing it, become the best in the world. Like, we were in Oaksville Katoni's event, and we were in a hotel.

And it was kind of weird because there's a spa. So we're all excited to get massages. But it's also COVID right now. So, like, the masseuses have masks on. They have plastic gloves. It was like, it was weird. And I got my very first massage. They paid for some massages, but two massages.

So I was like, it'll be fun. First massage was so bad. I was like, I never want to get massaged again ever. Like it was just, it was so bad. And I'm sitting there on the table. It was only an hour long massage. By the time it was done, I was like, I want to get out of here. Like, this is just weird and horrible.

I did not enjoy it. And I'm a massage person. Yeah. I love massage. Yeah. And I was like the point, like I'd never want to massage again, but they'd already booked us for the next day for the second one. And I was annoyed.

I went to the second one and same thing. She's got plastic gloves on that we have to do in the mask and it's kind of like i don't want to be here and then she puts your hands on me and it's just like it was art like it was different and i was like both of them are doing the same job right but somebody's like i want to be the best in the world versus like i'm just doing the thing you see in every every area of life you look at chiropractors there's chiropractors the good and there's ones that are great doctors like dentists business like like i'm i'm more of like wherever you're at like like don't just be mediocre like become the best in the world there that's more important to me than you know if you're gonna be a plumber be the plumber who you walk in like we've had

our house so many plumbers come and we had some to come and they fix the leak and then some of those breaks and they go and other guys come in and they check everything making sure it's perfect it's like i would rather like i want that person with the artist want the person like this is their art not just like best job i could find like yeah anyway all right so now i'm about to ask you a question and i understand this is totally like just like your opinion on it there's you know nothing but maybe maybe you have something to base it on so like the person that is at those lower levels of value right the average worker that's out there that's doing their thing especially in today's super soft victim mentality america that wants

to vote for free stuff makes me so mad anyway so like the average person like that's out there looks up at people that make a lot of money and like kind of the general consensus, I think, or the way that America slash the world is going is like, rich people are bad, right? Like, like, you're, you're so greedy, man. Like you got all this money and like, you're not giving any to me. And like, you get to go sit in your massive house and your cars and you can do whatever you want. And so like, even if they are doing what they are called to do, like they'll look up at to a millionaire, a billionaire, like someone that has like all to do like they'll look up at to a millionaire a billionaire like someone has like all this stuff and they'll like they'll look at it as bad like that shouldn't

happen like how do you create a society and this is why like i know it's a big picture like type stuff but like how do you create a society that allows people to like be okay with being the best version of themselves like where they're at without like looking at you and being like, you're bad. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, it's not going to happen in our lifetime. It's not going to happen. My belief till Christ comes again. And we, when he does, it'll be a perfect, you know, things would be great, but until then it's not gonna happen because humans are humans. Right. Um, you mean, you mean Donald Trump's not going to just fix everything? Oh, if he does, that'd be amazing. i'm not holding my breath um but i would say more so just for anyone who feels that way like i would look at that more and i did a podcast about

this like um if you're not someone who celebrates other people's successes um everybody i don't care if you hate the person if you're a big fan or you're not a big fan if you don't celebrate their success um then you are going to struggle to ever be successful because you're going to be so scared of other people not celebrating your success i remember i'm not i am not a huge gary v fan you know this yeah um for reasons i'll talk about in my next book but um so when i when i tweet this out on twitter gary when you're following me shout out but um by the way the patriots won the super Bowl in the Jets. Just throw that out there. All right, continue. I just guaranteed you'd never come on my podcast. I do like Gary.

I just – we had – but whatever. He doesn't remember it, I'm sure. But anyway, he got the shoe deal with whatever, the shoes. Yeah, Adidas. And he's in our market. And like for a half a second, I was like, oh, that sucks. And then I was like, he freaking – he's in our industry and he got a shoe deal. And I ran to my computer.

The case was, I bought the shoes. I got them here. And I was like, I did a podcast, like celebrating the fact that some of our community got a shoe deal and all these things. And a bunch of people that I know,

right. I thought like, you're not a big Gary fan. I'm like, I'm not, but like, that's a huge success. Like we should celebrate success because if you don't,

then what's going to automatically happen in your head. If you're not celebrating people's successes, you have the subconscious fear that someone's not going to do yours and so you're going to stifle yourself from being successful so i try when anybody around me is having success whether i like them or i don't like them like i always am like oh my gosh i'm going to try to celebrate it and then by doing that like it it changes your brain to the spot where um you're okay having success because you're assuming everyone's going to celebrate like you and they're not going to um but it i don't know it's different um subconsciously you are not celebrating people's successes um it'll stifle you from ever having your own and so i think that's a big part of like if if that's where you're at right now like

it's something you got to change and we start making that little shift and start celebrating people's successes above you um it it's freeing it's amazing because then it's also like unlocking yourself like i can succeed because they did and and people are going to celebrate me and like it just it shifts those like psychological things that you do in it it changed everything it's weird do you think you're not political like hardly at all like do you pay attention um no, no, no, not too much. Like I was like,

I was like, Hey, so those who read the book, Hank Reardon, he like, and this is part of his demise is he never, he doesn't pay attention to at all. So as I read the book,

I'm like, Hey, Greer doesn't pay attention. I don't pay attention. Like, like, um, and real quick,

we do shout out for these shirts again. Um, by the way, how many guys, what would like one of these shirts? Let's make them comment for this first. Okay, guys,

how many of you want to share? Yes or no comment. Yes let's make a comment for this first. Okay. Guys, how many of you want a shirt? Yes or no? Comment yes or no down below. So this is the Reardon Steel one. This is the Who's John Gall one. Pretty dope. I'm not going to lie, though. Like, that one's pretty dope.

But this one wins for one reason. The quote is cool. We could put that quote on this one, too, and make it silver. Ooh. Ooh. Okay. This is my selfish pitch. Can I do this?

Okay, yeah. Can Russell – hey, guys, can i do a pitch real quick you guys can i sell something can he sell something to you keep in mind i i make no money off this i don't i don't even know what he's doing if i make any money okay no we have a little fun site we created just because they'd be fun uh called t-shirt smackdown.com where we have two shirts and then people vote with their walls and which shirt they want better so if you guys want these shirts you can actually buy whichever one is your favorite or both you like them both you just gotta go to t-shirt smackdown.com and they're up there right now and guess who's the models on t-shirt smackdown

i assume are we the models and you go t-shirt smackdown.com yeah you can get uh you get one or two oh my gosh look at that your team your team's amazing dude they put it together like that fast okay let's geek out on the book here for a second yeah the audible door related to the password that was audible when i read that i was like yes that's like a brilliant mind at work right it's like you have to say it and the part that i thought was interesting was he it wasn't just the words he's like and it's it's programmed to where it will not open unless like the person that is saying it like is actually like saying it with conviction or like something that effect like they actually have to like mean it yeah right you can't just be

like okay come on man like it now you guys want to read the book so bad you want okay all right let's we'll come back to the t-shirt smackdown comment down below let us know uh and let us know guys let us know down in the comments and if you're listening on audio you can like go leave a rating and review and like leave us in the comments but like if you're listening youtube facebook wherever like comment down below where the best part or your favorite part of the conversation was so far. I think that'd be super cool. All right, funnel hackers, listen up.

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and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash Russell today. That's rocketmoney.com slash R-U-S-S-E-L-L. That's rocketmoney.com slash Russell. Okay. Let's get out of the book for a second here. I actually have a lot of questions about the book, but I want to know like, what was like your favorite scene? Oh, so many good scenes. My favorite scene in the book. So it's kind of like the crescendo of the whole book. Cause the whole book, that's who's John Gall. Who's John Gall. Okay. Hold on. Sorry. Dave, Dave is sitting here in the book. So it's kind of like the crescendo of the whole book. Cause the whole book, that's in who's John Gall. Who's John Gall. Okay.

Hold on. Sorry. Dave, Dave is sitting here in the background. Have you read the book, Dave? Okay. So I'm just making sure you're making sure that you're like, you're not just sitting over here. Like I got guys freaking out.

Dave's like, I have to read it too. I was like, I need to talk to somebody. Dave, go read this. I'll see you in six months. Okay. Favorite book. So the whole book's named who's John Gall. Who's John Gall.

We kind of introduced him a little bit when Dagny meets him and then she leaves and goes back to the real world and all of a sudden there's this part where the looters and the government are trying to like do this broadcast and all of a sudden the broadcast is interrupted and they're trying to figure out how to fix it but all the people who would fix it have been taken like they're like because all the great minds of society are gone they're gone and all of a sudden like over the loudspeaker comes john gall and he starts his speech and the speech i think is 80 pages in the book it's so it's like it's four hours it's four hours on the audiobook four hours this is why you don't watch the movie by the way because

it's less than 30 seconds in the movie like how do you take out four hours like oh it's such a good anyway he gets on his microphone broadcasting the entire world nobody can cut him off and he gives this speech about big everything the whole book i'm just like freaking out like the setup was so crazy all of a sudden it happens i was like oh and anyway that was my and he ends with this yeah and he goes and i'll say it like one last time i pledge my life and my love of it that i will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine oh anyway that was my favorite part the 80 page four hour long four-hour-long portion of it. Oh, yeah. So good.

Okay, I like that. My favorite part of the book, I read this, and I was like – I like play my life and act like I'm in a movie, right? Sometimes I'm like, do this. So do you remember at the wedding? Oh, Francisco Speed. Dude. Oh, yes.

Dude. That might have been better. That is the best part of the whole book. I get done with that chapter, and I'm like, I promised Leah I would be done after this chapter. And, like, it ends, and I'm like, no. Yeah, I do think. So the John Galt had a better build up, and then, like, I didn't know it was coming.

Like, there's wedding and everything, and then all of a sudden it starts happening. It's like. Out of freaking nowhere. Yeah francon just uh francisco he gives a speech that was like yeah i wasn't expecting it so i think it was less build-up but it was amazing yeah the john galt build-up was like this is like i was waiting to see that movie because i was like amazing then it's like come on like come on anyway yeah those are the two best parts yeah yeah at that wedding like i'm reading this and i'm like that was when like it was like that that moment i was like okay

she she finally like made it all like and it was relatively early on in the book i was like oh if the book follows anything like this this is gonna be such a good book right because like he gets done with that and like you're just it's like something you'd want to like watch out in real life. And you know, like somebody thought this up and like wrote it down. You're just like, yeah, good.

Yeah. Yeah. That was so good. That was, that was hands down. I read the book again. I wish it wasn't 1200 pages. Cause it's like,

I want to go back and experience it, but it's so big. Okay. Have you read the cliff notes version of the book? No. Okay. So yeah, so there is,

there's, I think there's the cliff notes, like the one that you buy. I think it's like a four hour audio book. I haven't listened to that one, but usually like cliff notes. Okay. So yeah. So there is, there's, I think there's the cliff notes, like the one that you buy. I think it's like a four hour audio book. I haven't listened to that one, but usually like cliff notes.com, like read the book. You can basically,

you can basically get a summary of the whole book in like 30 to 45 minutes. I read it. It's still worth reading though. You guys. Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. But,

and actually that's the reason I bring it up because like, I know it's 100 pages, but like, you don't like, if you just read the cliff notes, you're like, Oh, okay. Like cool storyline but like you miss the effect like the the oomph of it all one of the things that i thought was fascinating this is because like i'm working on my next book which is like i'm it's not a how-to book so i'm learning how to

write differently so i've been you want to tell us all about it i'm really proud i'm excited for it um but one thing was interesting like if you look at how ian ran did the dialogue in the book she did all the dialogue where it's one person speaking so it's fascinating every time you notice that like when um when uh her partner was in the cafeteria with some guy we didn't know you only hear his words you never hear the other side oh that's so true they did most of her dialogues which is she heard the one person talking and you could get to just the conversation by reading one side they'd never had the other side and i'd never seen someone write that way before and there's a lot of cool things like that where it's just like people and like

again i've written three books now but like i wrote books with google docs with editors and people like imagine a book in the 50s with a typewriter i think how much pre-four thought has to go to something like this that's wild like it is insane to think that yeah so like i have so much respect for people who wrote then and especially i'm trying to learn how to write uh as a story as opposed to how to and it's like the art of it is is just it's fascinating and anyway as as a book it's just like it's worth reading just like to see how she wrote it's fascinating as well what was your like biggest actually i want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit further so like writing and is your new like is your next book fiction or not uh no it's it's just the next book is uh i bought

bootstrap.com so it's bootstrapping it's the click funnel story it's not like the how-to it's telling the story um as the story uh which is gonna be cool it's gonna be so like the first thing we're doing um is uh all the core people have been part of the click funnel story we're flying them out and uh interviewing them for uh we i've been part of the ClickFunnels story are flying them out and interviewing them for – I've been mapping out the entire timeline of events as close as I can remember and interviewing all the pieces from their point of view. I'm trying to get that from like 50 different people, and then I'm going to take all that stuff, sync the timelines up,

and write the book as a story. Anyway, so it's a different writing style I've never done before. That's interesting. Oh, yeah, Dave wants to tell you the cool part. So I've also been re-geeking out on like here with a thousand faces and the hero street journeys and like all that stuff i want to make sure well someday i want to try to sell to hollywood or something so who knows i don't have the end of the story yet but like but so which is by the way super fascinating because like

the concept of like going for a target and then like going towards it like you don't know the end now you're just like yeah so cool it's cool but i was like russell's so much fun to watch so like i'm writing i didn't so i've been i've been geeking out on the hero's journey so i'm like i'm trying to sync the timeline of the click funnel startup story to the timeline of the hero thousand faces like to all the core the core things to see if i can get it to fit inside that framework which i think we'll be able to do that way it yeah it's gonna be amazing and then uh what i'm trying to do in my new office is um i'm gonna build the room where it's like a timeline so the entire room wraps in a huge uh like uh like a chalkboard with like a timeline that goes around

has like the dates and here's dirty stuff right and then like you'll you know and then like writing in each core thing on the on the wall and then you're like the you in the spy movies where you have like the string that goes you have the pieces of paper yeah so like as i'm writing the book i want to have the whole thing timed out in the square room and so you see it all and they can see all the pieces how they all fit together and then that'll when the book's done in that room that'll be the wallpaper on the room oh my gosh okay all right so here's here's a great idea so you like you do that up until like a certain point like this is modern day and then there's like an end of the wall and then like from that point to there that's when you're writing when you get to the end of the wall you have to sell

everything and go into hiding and become done goal like that book's done i mean there we go that's fascinating anyway so when i get to write to write a story that's way different it's not like a all my other books are how-to books so it's like they're written differently and so it's just been fun which by the way is why i i was like when i like first got into entrepreneurship i was like i don't know why anybody would write a book that's not like that like i'm like what why would anybody write a book like this this is so lame and now i'm like reading it i'm like oh my gosh it's so cool yeah i have a ton of respect like the books i'm reading now like ice fish shoe dog which is like the story oh that's a great book uh american kingpin which is like the story of the silk road the dark web my favorite stories i've ever read i read it twice already and the

writer is probably the best writers i've ever i gave i read it i was so depressed i was like i'll never write as busy i tried to hire him to write my book for me he's too busy i mean i will give you a blank check just write this book you're so much better than I can ever dream of. So I had to go learn how to do it. What was your most, like, what was the most fascinating thing about Atlas drugged to you? Like if any,

like the way it was written or the concepts or the characters, like any, what was the overall, like the most fascinating part for you? Um, and get character development. So cool. Um,

I think, I think the coolest thing for me was like each – I'd love to see some diagram because I don't know it. But each of the characters each played – they're a character, but they played a role that is like this magnified society as like a group almost, right? Yeah, that's actually super true and dagny and then like um james taggart oh my taggart's wife yeah like all the people they were like they were humans but they were personification of like a segment of of society which was really cool and so it's like seeing that where you're just like you're getting this like this micro versions macro problem um that was cool because like I never, again, I don't study politics.

I'm not deep into it. So I don't know all these things. And like you hear this character and you hear the story. And honestly, you're like, oh my gosh, that represents this group of people that I. And so for me, it was cool because I was able to understand things at a different level. And I'm not the best at this, but I always try to like put myself in other people's shoes. I try to understand like that's why I'm not super political because it gets so divisive and i'm like i see good on both sides like i understand like i can love people on both sides of it i think it was so cool for me because i was

able to like you see the pros and the cons of each thing right you see the positive negatives of each belief pattern like as much as i related to him it's like there's the good and evil right yeah there's good like all of them have that so like it was just cool because it gave me this perspective i didn't know of so many different segments of society made this really cool tapestry picture for me huh all right so now the polar opposite like what do you think the book lacked in or like like didn't communicate well or like left out um i think something to talk about today like i do feel like um most of the producers in the book um they didn't have the other side of it right like the social stuff is important like helping other people is important um and i get why she didn't like i said the the phil donahue interview she's like people should be social they shouldn't do with the gun

we should ever show that she didn't show hank career and going and like oh this is the cause i care about like let me go and at all you know in any part and i think that's what's important like that's why you know we talk about the political on the left side like like they're what they're trying to do is good it's right like it's it's from god like it's just so good things right but there's like there's ways that people twist and all sorts of stuff like that and i wish they would show more of that because i felt like the characters were one-sided where it's just like you know it's like that people twist and all sorts of stuff like that. And I, I wish they would show more of that because I felt like the characters were one side where it's just like, you know,

it's like the people, the looters are the people that are producers. And I feel like there's more blend. I think for all of us, we have blends of those things and they did a good job of dissecting. Yeah. You know, I think we all have all those things.

It's like, I want to give, I want to serve, I want to do things, but I also want to produce. I want to do both those things. Right. Like how do I,

what's the world look like where we do both of those things. And I don't know how to, you know, in my, in my, in my little universe, I've created for myself and my family. Like I'm trying to,

I'm trying to produce. Then we've got, Oh, you are, we've got these things. Like I'm trying to contribute and trying to do my version of what I think right is right. Right.

Like all we can do is like what we think is right in our own little world that we create. And so this is my world I've created. I'm trying my best to do it. And, and I wish that they would showed some outside. I think, I think that that was the part I feel that the characters were missing. Just that part of it. Hey, funnel hackers. I want to talk about building your business. You've got the idea, the passion, the drive, but here's the thing.

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Nobody had kids. So like, and, and I don't have kids. I'm not married. I don't have kids. I'm getting, I'm getting married. Yeah. Shout out to my beautiful fiance. All right.

But like for me, like I'm so focused right now. So I grew up in a big family, right? Eight kids. I'm the oldest living. I've got one brother who passed away, but like six younger siblings. And so like, for me, I'm like, man, like my whole life changes once there's kids in it. And like, I know that even though I haven't experienced it, cause I've seen it. Right. And so for me, and like Leah and I have talked about this, like the twenties are for us, the thirties are for kids. Right. Like, and so I'm like, I got to make as much money as I possibly can before then,

because I, and I even told Colette this, I said, if there's one thing that I would sacrifice my career for in order to be able to do would be like to homeschool my kids. Like I can't fathom sending my kids to public school, right? That's just me

because I grew up homeschooled or whatnot. But like, as I was going through the book, I'm like, I can relate to all these people, but like they're leaving out like this key component. Like imagine being Hank Reardon and like living like he did with with your five kids or do you have five yeah okay i was gonna say before i was like oh my gosh so like think about that you know anything and so i feel like one of the because

there's a lot of people i know that have read atlas drug they're like heck yeah man like the greatest book ever like for profit blah blah blah and i'm like yeah but like imagine living your life that way with a family yeah like imagine living your life like that like with the kids and responsibilities like people that you actually like love how think about this because um like i think of our timeline it comes back we talk about with greed and contributions you know or growth and contribution right so most of us we get born all of us we get born right only way to get here we all get we all born right and from like when you're born till you're whatever for me i got married at 22 i was 22 right and so it's like um the first 21 years it's all about you right like it's selfish it's growth it's like whatever it's you you right and everyone's very inward focused and then all of a sudden you meet this

beautiful person and you fall in love like this this amazing and also what happens is it shifts from you to like us and like you're giving taking giving and it's cool because like also all you're focusing on you it's on somebody else and but they're focused on you too and it's like this this amazing thing we're like i'm giving but i'm also getting it's like this amazing thing right it's like this transition that's easing you into kids because then kids come out and it's it flips now where it's like the opposite where like you're just serving 100 especially the very beginning of the kids like there's nothing like i was joking my kids about this um one night when they're like why are you guys so mean i'm like do you realize like we get no value from this we don't get paid a penny from this like there's nothing in parenting like we kill ourselves we serve we don't sleep we work we

pay money we get and that's not true we there's value sitting there imagine russell telling us kids we get no value you do not pay us i'm like i'm killing myself you're gonna get a tax break yeah yeah but it's just funny because i'm like i like you know and so but especially the first board like they're cute and you get less but they're in the selfish phase now where you're giving 100 and they're not giving back other than like they giggle and cute. Oh, it's so cute. But for the most part, it's like you have this time where you're selfish and it's like, oh, I'm serving someone else. But they're serving me an amazing now since like 100% service there. And I think that that's a good point.

Like, hey, Greer had only done this thing. And then, you know, he never had a chance to like 100% serve somebody else and see what that's like. Because the value you get as a parent is when you serve 100% of the kids and you see like who they become. And that's like because that the value you get as a parent is is when you serve 100 of the kids and you see like who they become and you know yeah and that's the value but um but it doesn't come from like from like the the quick pro quo that you normally get with like i'm gonna buy this thing or pay for this thing right ever right it's like i'm gonna serve and serve and serve it and eventually hopefully someday you turn to be yeah well because i and that's a super interesting point and maybe that's maybe that's why she left the part out of

it because she was like none of these people would ever have she didn't have kids so that's to be you know she's never seen that at least another than what i'm pretty sure that's crazy because what like i was you know going through and i'm like this book i think would mean so much different or like so like when i first read it i don't know like i said whenever i first learned about this back in high school right like i read it i was like i hated reading i publicly declared and it's actually funny like i when i graduated high school i bought myself a pickup truck i stood on top of the pickup truck and i publicly declared the world that i would never read another book ever again in life i hated. Um, and so that's funny. Cause now I'm reading 1200 books

and I've read every, every one of those books, um, back there. Um, like it didn't really take on the same effect as like now, like being an entrepreneur, like being someone that like at one point I have five employees and I'm like 26 years old, you know? And so like now I'm reading and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I read it with kids, I feel like that would even like give me a like a completely different perspective on like it. How is how is having kids changed your because you're an entrepreneur, like basically from the one, right? Like you never really had a job, right? I've served tables and I've never had a job more than three months. Okay, so yeah, so you're a failure in the normal society, right?

You can't hold a job. You're, you know, you get fired forever. But like, how has having kids and like having to balance, man, like, dude, you're running a, ClickFunnels is a billion dollar company, right? We're allowed to say that? Like, that's the thing, right? Like, roughly? Like, I'm not off on that. All right.

The value is based on what people pay for. So hopefully, people pay for that. So we're going to say a billion dollar company. So like, you're running this billion dollar company. You've made hundreds of millions of dollars you've been paid a million dollars an hour from stage before what big props congratulations um like how has balancing work now with that like with the kids like growing up i feel like like now they're at because you're old this is what you're too old 14 almost 15 right so like how has that changed the way that

you view your work like do you struggle with that like the balance yeah especially now with like covid stuff happening kids being homeschooled but now it's like before it's easy to separate like they're going to school i'm going here separation is easy now it's harder because like they're still home and it's like oh should i be there like you know it's it's definitely it's definitely tough. And it's interesting. I have so many entrepreneur friends. I always tease them because it's like, you don't have any kids and they're doing amazing things.

I'm like, yeah, but I'm doing this stuff and I got five kids and a beautiful wife and I got callings in my church. And there's so many things. I think it's just, I think I hired a trainer. Dave knows a safe trainer. I remember when he started working this, he said, the biggest thing he knows

when he started working with me is that you'll be shocked what your body can actually endure. I think that most people don't understand what they can actually do. How do you run a company this big and have a family and have a successful marriage and have these – you can do it. Most people don't because they sedate. I don't watch four hours of football at night because I have all these other things.

I don't know. It's just like if you take away the excuse of sedation like you can produce so much more than i think people are able to understand i don't know so it's interesting and then um it's been it's been such a weird thing too with kids because i think when you first start having kids you assume they're all going to be like you right like oh they're all going to be entrepreneurs it's so much fun and then you know i had twins it was crazy and twins about our first two became our twins now they're you know 14 almost 15 it's crazy because i assume like it all be the same same as me or these same together and they are so polar opposites right like yeah i didn't even know i just found out today that they were twins yeah like i had no

clue call it's like yeah they're both turning 15 i'm like wait what yeah look at each other act each other and like one's more entrepreneurial one's more like if you look at like this profile we have a di with sc like oh my god extrovert like all the things are different and um and i always thought you know like my kids can be entrepreneurs like me and now it's like no i don't think they have to be this kind of goes back to talk about earlier like you know with my kids i'm like now like what do you want to do and and you know i think one of my things some of my kids are very entrepreneurial a lot of them aren't i think some of my kids are super smart hard workers we're going to be amazing at the roles they play in in something they're going to be a I think some of my kids are very entrepreneurial. A lot of them aren't. I think some of my kids are super smart, hard workers. We're going to be amazing at the roles they play in something.

They're going to be a huge part of changing somebody's world, but it's not going to be the front person of it, right? And so it's been interesting watching that and fulfilling and hard and it's all the things wrapped into one. You know, it's, I don't know, it's an interesting experience. You're going to love it. You should start having kids right away. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Okay, but why though? Because you know, it's, I don't know. It's an interesting experience. You're going to love it. You should start having kids right away. Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Okay, but why, though? Because you know you should take some time. Okay, but how long did you wait? Two, let's see. We had our 18-year anniversary. This kid's turning 15. So almost three years, yeah. Three years before.

We tried earlier, but we had fertility drugs, stuff like that, and everything. But yeah, it's about two years when we started training yeah i can't kids scare me dude man i'll tell you but so like it's interesting because like i grew up with six younger siblings so like i was definitely old enough to remember like the whole diaper phase and like you know obviously i wasn't the parent with it but like and the and the, the church that I went to, like the eight was like average to small amount of kids. Like a lot of them were like 13 kids, 12 kids, 14 kids, whatever. Like I think the smallest in our whole church was four, right? Like, and they were the weird ones, right?

You only have four kids. And so it's like everywhere we went, that's just like what it was. And so for me, like i had that rebellion phase if you will which i don't know what to call it rebellion phase but like where i was like i don't want any of this like why would you like they're expensive and and they like suck all the time and i i can't go do this i'm like i want to be so filthy rich before i go like having kids and so and i like taught sunday school and like was very involved in like the church growing up and things like that and so for me it was like i want to go build my business like

building off like doing that is like more fun the interesting thing about kids and i told my parents this i don't remember what it was but like my parents are not like my parents aren't like super like wealthy or like successful when it comes to business or anything like that but like i look at my parents as like some of the most successful people that i've ever met in my life because that my mom's favorite but there's like little things that my mom like tells me over and over and over again. And she's like, one of her favorite lines is the only thing I need to know in life is like, I just need to know that my children walk in truth.

Right. And I'm like my mom, particularly and my dad too, like both of them. But like I related with my mom cause she keeps saying it is like my mom's definition of success and like achievement was do my children walk in truth do my children like that is what was success to her and like she's like you can take you know like yeah money would have been great like all these different things but like that was like kind of this this pinnacle of success for her is like do my kids like walk in truth and so as i have gone through my own journey of faith which has been i mean it has been rough at times right like i've watched her

like struggle with it and like freak out because she's like i just want i'm like but it's not like that's not her journey to bear but like it is like at the same time and so it's always been interesting like kids are like this thing where i feel like once i have them obviously they're i'm there for the rest of my life but like i feel like there's this distress or like this new there's this new piece of my life that's unlocked that I've never explored before. I don't know anything about it. And I'm like, afraid isn't the right word, but I'm pushing that off as long as I possibly

can because once it's open, then I never get to close it again. And that mystery is almost fun to look forward to, but at the same time, I get to focus on it. You know what I mean? It's interesting. I remember thinking about this a lot a lot especially first few years i was like this is so much harder than i thought it was going to be like flat out i was like i i thought it was going to be you know whatever way harder but i also remember feeling and saying a lot like this is so much

cooler than i ever dreamt of so it was like this double-edged sword i was like man i didn't realize how tired and like worn out and all these things. But then so much better than I thought. And it's funny because I know a lot of friends who are like, well, when do you make money off kids? I'm like, I don't think. I don't know. It's different. I would just have kids.

You can do both. It's not impossible. Especially when they're first born, they just sit there and they're like, you know. I would spend a year or two and just nod. Right, right, right. But I wouldn't wait until I need a million bucks in the bank. I get people all the time. Like I have, I know people that were broke.

They have eight kids. Like just, they're not that expensive, right? Like Cheerios are not that expensive. Like if you need to, you know, like it's just, it's just, it's just being willing to be there and be loving and being, being present for as much as you can. Another thing that's been interesting, uh,

especially now that our kids are into teenagers and it's like so much harder. That's been harder. Just like, really? That's harder than when they're young. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

It's Dave's over here to the lab and it's different. Oh gosh. What am I in for Dave? Oh no. Yeah. The young heart is like, I am tired. I like,

that's, that's the hard part when you're young, when they're older, it's just like, if I mess these kids up, like I just want them to be successful. that's that's the hard part when you're young when they're older it's just like i'm messing these kids up like i just wanted to be successful i think that's the bigger fear and it was interesting i remember um the little thing that gave me some grace like um tom bill you i heard a instagram post he had of him talking about how um being a parent and it was it was so funny because he's like who who here is scared that you're going to F up your kids? That was how he would have said it. Who's going to mess up your kids?

Everyone's hands are like, yeah, I'm scared. He's like, guess what? My parents messed me up. Your parents are like, you're going to mess your kids up. Guess what? We turned out okay in the end. Just be okay with the fact that you're going to mess your kids up because you are. I remember I was like, okay.

Everyone messed up their kids. Like, that's part of it. Like, that's part of the whole journey. That's the journey. You know, that's like, that's part of it. And I think it gave me some grace of just like, look, I'm going to do my best. I'm probably going to mess them up. But at the same time, like, you have to have faith.

Like, they're going to do their thing. And they're going to hopefully make good decisions. And if not, that's why we have God. That's why we have repentance. All these things, you know, and just kind of leave it to him and, you know, do your best.