The Russell Brunson Show - Greed, Growth, and Giving Back: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (1 of 5)

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

A little while back, I had the opportunity to sit down with Josh Forti for an in-depth discussion about one of the most thought-provoking books I’ve ever read: Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. This wasn���t just your typical business or marketing chat. Josh and I went deep into the themes of personal responsibility, capitalism, government overreach, and the pressures entrepreneurs face when they carry the weight of the world. If you’ve ever felt the strain of growing a business, this conversation will resonate with you. We talked about what happens when the “producers”—those who drive society—decide to walk away and let it all crumble. In this first part of a five-part series, we explore the impact of Rand’s philosophy on business and life, touching on the tension between personal ambition and societal good. We didn’t shy away from controversial subjects, discussing politics, religion, and the complex emotions that come with building something meaningful. I even share how reading this book during a pivotal moment in my life gave me new insight into balancing self-interest and contribution. Key Highlights: Government Regulations vs. Entrepreneurship: How real-world business struggles mirror those in Atlas Shrugged. Capitalism and Self-Interest: Is greed always bad, or does it serve as the starting point for growth and innovation? The Shift from Self-Focus to Impact: My personal journey from focusing on business success to embracing the ripple effect of helping others. Dealing with Pressure: How entrepreneurs manage the crushing weight of expectations, and what it means to "shrug" like Atlas. This is just the beginning of a fascinating series where we unpack big ideas and challenge some deeply held beliefs. Whether you’ve read Atlas Shrugged or not, I promise this conversation will spark new thoughts and perspectives on how to approach life and business. Tune in and join us on this journey of exploration! Don't forget to check out this awesome deal from Mint Mobile! https://mintmobile.com/funnels And if you want to enjoy the Marketing Secrets Show ad-free, check out https://marketingsecrets.com/adfree Get 70% off on Welch Equities' retail price at wealthyconsultant.com/secrets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Air Transat presents two friends traveling in Europe for the first time and feeling some pretty big emotions. This coffee is so good. How do they make it so rich and tasty? Those paintings we saw today weren't prints. They were the actual paintings. I have never seen tomatoes like this. How are they so red? With flight deals starting at just $589, it's time for you to see what Europe has to offer. Don't worry, you can handle it. Visit airtransat.com for details. Conditions apply. AirTransat. Travel moves us. With TD Direct Investing, new and existing clients could get 1% cash back.

Great! That's 1% closer to being part of the 1%... Maybe. closer to being part of the 1%? Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31st, 2025. Visit td.com slash DI offer to learn more. Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today, I want to share with you guys actually a really cool interview that I did back in 2020. So to get back in the middle of the pandemic, all sorts of things were happening. We had a lot more free time. And I remember it was the very first time I had a chance to actually read slash listen to the book Atlas Shrugged. And afterwards, I got so excited. If you're following me at the point,

you know, I got really excited. And Josh Forty got excited. He messaged me. So he actually flew out and we did, I think it was like a five hour long, uh, interview on Atlas Shrugged. It was really fun. And so, um, I just recently reread the book and just got back top of mind, back excited. I went back and started listening to this interview again, just to kind of remember what we talked about then. And some of my thoughts and beliefs had tweaked or changed a little bit from the first time, but it was still fun. And anyway, so many cool things came from this conversation. So for the next couple of weeks, we're going to play some of the clips from this interview with Josh Forty and me talking about Alice Shrugged. I hope it's something you guys

enjoy and you love. If nothing else, it'll get your mind spinning, especially as we're moving towards this election sequence and cycle and stuff. Number one, but number two, as entrepreneurs, this is a book that's got a really powerful message for producers, for prime movers, for people who are trying to change the world. And so maybe it'll inspire some of you guys to actually go and read the book. So that said, I hope you guys enjoy this first episode from our Atlas Drug Series. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We are live. What's up, everybody? Oh, my word. With the incredibly, I don't know if

long-awaited. It hasn't really been that long since we planned this. Two months ago. So, What's up everybody? That's far when it comes to business and business and philosophy and everything like that. Well, it's funny. Your wife said, thanks so much for coming out. I was like, yeah, it's certainly, yeah, because it's inconvenient to me to fly all the way out here. I will say this is my first ever in-person interview like this. Oh, really? Yeah. We got the microphone set up. I know.

He's a professional. I've never done this before. We have literally, we have a soundboard down here. We got Russell's mic. Can you guys hear us all right? By the way, guys, for all of you listening on audio, we apologize because we're going to ask for some comments in the Facebook feed here. We got everybody down here, by the way.

You can see all the comments down here. What's up, everyone? All right, guys, if you are live, comment down below. Let us know where you're tuning in from. Let us know if you know Russell or if you know me or if you know both of us or what you're both looking forward to. And, Russell, I'm going to be honest with you. We're just going to be like super chill out.

Guys, we have a live audience back here. We got Dave. Dave's over there. We got Jake and Nick. Where'd Jake go? Jake's where's where'd jake go jake's working oh there there we go jake's working late over there by the way design these amazing shirts for yeah check this out this is my reared and still shirt this is like who is john galt's shirt it is great okay but i feel like you have to look back the back so i'll read to you guys it says uh i stand by i started my life with a single absolute that the world was the world was mine to shape in the image of my highest values and never to be given to a lesser standard, no matter how long or hard the struggle.

So do you guys like these shirts? These are custom-made for tonight. And you guys may have a chance to get one of these, but not yet. Or yet. No, not yet. Not yet? We'll let you know when you put them in the ability if you guys – Oh, man.

Oh, man. Anyway, it's going to be be fun but these are custom we literally made these today because we're like we need some sweet shirts and uh um for the for the show so oh caleb wolf says he got your text did you send out a text to everybody do russell on top of that i sent out a many chat russell on text all right guys um let's lay some ground rules here so the quick backstory behind uh this and it's gonna be weird gotta look in the camera here uh quick backstory behind this is i make a post on facebook uh what probably three months ago now or so two three months ago and i go uh we need some epic people to interview for the podcast

who do you know tag them all down below and shout out georgie georgie comments and goes uh i coached russell brunson you should totally interview me and i was like you gotta be you gotta be pretty gutsy to like tag russell in your comment and tell him you coached him um but then russell brunson you should totally interview me and i was like you gotta be you gotta be pretty gutsy to like tag russell in your comment and tell him you coached him um but then russell comments back george is a olympic wrestler he uh was on the bulgarian olympic team he wrestled the boys to stay with me he's the man so yeah so he uh he got all right call me back i'll go you coach russell and then russell goes well yeah he coached me he's awesome he should totally interview him and so i said yeah george of course you can come on we'll do an interview but russell i got an open invitation to you if you want to come back on and then then you're like sure

if we can talk about guns or no you didn't say sure you said uh can we do it about atlas shrug yes yeah because i interview a lot about business stuff and like i'll pull the microphone just slightly i don't i don't do a lot of interviews because um i feel like i've said what i want to say uh but i just finished literally probably the fattest book in the history of books called Atlas Shrugged. And I was geeking out on it and I want to talk about it. I didn't have a way or someone to geek out with other than some of my friends here. And I was like, go talk about Atlas Shrugged. I'm in. And then you start freaking out.

Well, the funny thing was is I go something to the effect of like you want to talk about the fall of capitalism because of a boycott because of a brilliant person and why socialism sucks. Yes, absolutely. I would love to do that. To which you don't give me a yes or no answer. You reply back and go, ha ha. Oh man, that'd be fun. I'm like, talk about an open loop, man. Come on. So anyway, I immediately messaged Russell and I'm like, you better not be, you better not be joking because it's like, that would just be rude because no, I'm totally in. So about two months go by, you had a bunch of stuff. You had some fun stuff during that time. Tony Robbins. Yeah. Tony man. And yeah, it's been, it's been chaos the last couple of months. Not gonna lie. And we got,

as we got closer and closer to election, I'm like, this is an interesting conversation post election, but I think it's more interesting before election. And so like, was it two days ago, three days ago? You're like, I will fight a Boise. Yeah. Record this. What day do you have open? I'm like only Wednesday night. And now it was, yeah, it was a Friday afternoon. Um, I've like, we were rocking back and forth. You're like, dude, we gotta get this done before the election. I'm like, huh? Before the election. Oh my word. I said, all right. It sounds good. Like what time you have available. And that's, I was like, you know what? I was going to ask you creatively, but I'm just going to ask you, how about i fly out to you and you're like heck yeah

so guys that's the backstory that's how we got here uh and so this is an open conversation about atlas shrugged and kind of everything that that encapsulates i think we'll talk about some religion some politics kind of some both sides of the aisle there and open it up so um anything else you want to add to that um the only the only thing I would add is, um, because, uh, this book, by the way, if you haven't read it yet, it's very polarizing. There are people on both sides of it. And I think both of us wanted to stress ahead of time that, um, I do not believe in everything in this book. A lot of things in this book, I do believe it. Um, and it's interesting. One of the things I want to dive deeper in, in this conversation, I'm excited for it. I told you on through Voxer, I was like, I was like, what's fascinating to me

is not like, this is what we should believe what was fascinating to me is as I was reading this book and we'll get into premise of the book for those who haven't read it but you know the big thing is like producers and like and going out there and like creating stuff and doing things which is like what entrepreneurs do right and and it even gets to the part of like like greed is good like you should be greedy because it's going to create all these these amazing things which which then does the byproducts really good. And part of me is like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then part of me as a believing Christian is like I hear this message I believe in, and I hear in my mind ringing Christ talking about faith, hope, charity, and love. And I feel like there are these two polar opposite things, which, by the way, when we dive into politics a little bit, like there are two polar opposite sides, one that believes one, one believes the other.

And I think that there's a happy medium. And that's what I want to dive deep into is because I don't want anyone thinking like, Oh, Russell and Josh just believe this or whatever. It's like, no, there there's, there's sides of this. And I empathize on both sides. I want to talk about both of them because they're fascinating. And I think I've, uh, anyway, I've, I've, I've toyed like writing a book about this concept, these two things. I, anyway, I think it'd just be fun to kind of first time verbally ever talk about. Yeah. So I'm excited for it. Yeah. And I would just echo that as well. Um, I think one of the things that often happens with me with my, it's just so funny. You who never, ever talks about politics and me who doesn't know how to get on Facebook without arguing about

politics, um, colliding here, but is that a lot of times I get like grouped into, Oh, you like this reading. Therefore you believe with like everything everything. You read this book or you support this person or whether it's a political figure or a book or something like that, it's like by saying that you enjoy that or that you learned a lot from it that all of a sudden you suddenly believe everything in it. And that is not the case at all. And I've gotten a lot of criticism from people that are like, how could you possibly like Atlas Shrugged? And I'm like, well, this is the conversation that we're going to have. So real quick, before we dive in, I'd'd be curious i want to do a poll real quick how many of you guys have actually read the book i'm curious to know yeah hold it up here

um there's two different versions of it but uh if you've read the book just comment below just the number one if you have read the book the number two if you have not read the book i think that'll just kind of give us a poll we got like two three hundred people we'll count that as reading too yeah either way yeah if you like not if you like know the premise of the book but like actually have read the book and like have a deep understanding of it or not deep understanding because i understand the stories yeah yeah things like that because i think that'd be interesting so one is red one is red two is not red more ones than i thought it was going to russell's book is so underrated we're 50 50 oh yeah i think we should take a poll at the end what's better uh atlas shrugged or dot com secrets that's the that's the real question we should be asking right now okay so we have a lot of people

that have not read it so we'll have to go into the premise of that okay um you're ready to start dude yeah there's a rock and roll with it okay um guys we want to let a couple ground rules okay because russell i don't know what it's like to be russell russell doesn't know what it's like to be me but like i think we both have a mutual understanding that we could very easily be taking out of context here um i think the goal and then I want you to kind of expound on this is like, we're not trying to take a side here. We're trying to have open discussion about it. Like this could very easily turn into something that's like, why are you over Trump? Why Biden sucks? Why Biden's great. Why Trump sucks. Or, you know, something like that, or like certain religion,

or we're not trying to convince you of anything really. In fact, this is honestly more of a conversation for us. And we're like, we think it'd be cool to stream it out to convince you of anything really. In fact, this is honestly more of a conversation for us. And we're like, we think it'd be cool to stream it out to a bunch of people because there's a reason for me to fly out here and do that. But the purpose of this is to have an open discussion about the book, the premise of the book, like an understanding of it. And then like, honestly,

we're probably gonna like be in our own little world over here and we want you guys to like interact and comment and like engage and like post your questions and we'll go back through it obviously. But like the purpose of this is not to try to convince anybody of anything it's simply to at least from my perspective shed a new perspective and like give the perspective of somebody who for those of you that don't know who russell is i mean the founder of a click funnel is a

billion dollar company uh you know uh sas company you have 400 employees 400 employees so like from that perspective and like from my perspective like to open your eyes like a new perspective of what like what we like what we don't like to open your eyes, like a new perspective of what, like what we like, what we don't like. And like I said, more of a conversation like for us. Yeah, I think it's good. And I think, yeah, like I think a big thing that we will talk about is our goals are to convince you of anything. In fact, I think I, I'm still convinced myself of both sides, right? Like I believe both these two, you know, things that seem contradictory, but I think there's a middle ground and I'm excited to explore it. So it'll be fun. Cool. So I think we, I think we got to'll be fun cool so i think we uh i think we gotta talk about the premise yeah we gotta talk

about i might have a little mini statue behind me that might help yeah okay so those who have not read alice shrugged i didn't know what the premise was at first but this is the story of alice so you guys know alice was cursed to be able to uh have to carry the entire weight of the universe entire weight of the world upon his shoulders for forever right and um and so this is where the premise of the book, like, like all of us, right. People who are listening to this, my guess is you are a producer, right? Otherwise you probably wouldn't be listening to me or to Josh. Like, um, I attract, I teach, I coach, I help producers, entrepreneurs, people are trying to change the world. Right. I'm curious how many guys have ever felt this pressure, right? When you feel like you literally have the entire weight of the world

upon your shoulders. And if you haven't, like, it's time to become a producer. That's first off. Second off, like, I can empathize. Like, there's so many times. You can ask Dave or any of you guys on my team. There's days I come in, I was like, I feel like I'm going to crack. Like, there is so much weight to carry this around. And I think, I'm guessing most of you guys have felt that.

It could be with your family. It could be in work. It could be business. Like, whatever it is, but you felt the weight of the world, right? So this is what Atlas had to hold, right? And so the premise of the book, Atlas Shrugged, is what would happen if the producers, the people that are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders, what happens if they were to go on strike?

And they were to shrug their shoulders and be like, in fact, should I read the title you gave me today? So Josh has a gift today. He gave me some amazing titles. This is a quote from – actually from the book Atlas Shrugged talking about this. It says, if you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling, but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength and the greater of his efforts, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders, what would you tell him to do to shrug that's the things like what happens to

society when us the producers when we cannot no longer want to hire carry the way the world we shrug and we walk away from it and um the book is is is a story about that like what happens when producers start disappearing and start leaving they start going on strike you see society what happens when when the producers disappear yeah i that's, so it's interesting because there is no one named Atlas shrugged in the book and there's nobody named Ayn Rand in the book. And so there's concepts that she's writing about outside of that. And it's this, how do you summarize a 1200 page book? It's like, all right. All right. Funnel hackers, listen up. It's 2025.

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and basically she is one of the producers of society and um she is not the head boss of the railroad but she's like basically the person that runs this railroad company and it is written what 1950 is when this was produced so 1950 and it's basically like this forecast into the future of a government that is basically forcing uh super super strict restrictions onto private businesses and like making them do things kind of like today in america um but like super super government overreach in a lot of ways and so uh um dagny is trying to keep the world afloat more or less, by getting the railroads done on time and getting orders shipped. And I'm super oversimplifying.

But around her, all the people that she worked with that owned all these other companies that she would buy copper from or buy steel from or buy the railroad track from or buy the coal from, all of a sudden, all these head people. Imagine people like Russell Brunson, all his friends just start disappearing. Imagine Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos andsell brunson like all of them just like start disappearing right like that's what's happening all around her and she doesn't understand like what's happening to them because just one day it's up and it's gone and so the premise of the like the first two thirds of the book is like showing this story of this producer who is living in this world of like super government uh tyranny like overreach that's like super super controlling and she's watching all of her friends disappear and she doesn't know why we say that's

a pretty good explanation of it so far and every time they disappear like lady behind a note or something that says who is john galt that's the theme throughout the book is who is john galt like who is this john galt person um that makes all the producers disappear and and every time and so and and dagny has no idea who John Galt is, right? And she doesn't even know actually for a while that John Galt's actually even a real person. And so once she does find out that John Galt is probably a real person,

like John Galt becomes like her sworn enemy because she like doesn't know who he is or like what he's doing. All she knows and all she associates with is that John Galt is taking away all these producers of society. It's making her life harder because like imagine you being an entrepreneur

and like all of your entrepreneur friends that like you buy stuff from and that you send all your people to your referrals and like everything you buy all your supplies from, like imagine that like all just disappearing. And you think it's because of this one guy who's like taking them all away and like, you don't know what's happening to them. Like, obviously they become your sworn enemy. And so if like for the first two thirds ish of the book, like that's kind of this premise of like the're painting this really really vivid story of these what do they call the great thinkers of society yeah the great minds of society basically like disappearing and dagny and there's a guy by the name of hank reardon i think reardon still yeah so one of the like dagny and hank reardon are like kind of like the

two major ones left right before the like the big happens. And you're like, oh, and then you get introduced to John Galt. I want to let you explain John Galt now. Oh, man. Okay, so that's the first two-thirds of the book. By the way, there's movies. Don't watch them. It'll ruin the movie. Yeah, yeah.

Read the book. So two-thirds in the book, she starts trying to figure out this mystery of who's John Galt. She ends up finding him. And it turns out that he has been going around and getting all these producers to go on strike convinces them that like look it's not worth fighting for anymore um all your incentives are gone like let's leave let's go on strike and they and they leave and um and they you know john galt's trying to get her to leave and she's like i can't i have to do everything in in my power it's the last third of the book is her you know leaving john galt's presence and going back and trying to figure out how to do this thing and she's watching just the government

regulations getting harder and harder and harder and harder to the point where everyone just has to disappear and one of the things john galton the people say like when the lights of new york go out then we'll come back and we'll we'll we'll rebuild society from the ground up after the looters and the the people are gone and that's basically how the book ends is the lights of new york goes to go out and then for a long, for such a long book, all of a sudden just ends. You're like, Oh my God, one more chapter. Come on. And we're never going to get it. Ah, well maybe, maybe I'll write it. Yeah. Um, but so like, that's like the storyline of the book, but where I think we really both want to focus here is kind of premises, uh,

and like the, the overarching, overarching um ideas that like the book presents and um capitalism versus socialism and i think we'll talk religion and politics and kind of everything that's in that but i kind of want to if it's all right with you like i kind of want to like turn the conversation more like towards us now just kind of like start geeking out um just about that so like guys like we'll obviously go back and by the way we want like all your comments if you're actually comment below right now, like, where are you watching? Are you watching it on YouTube? Are you watching it on think different theory page or watching on Russell's page? Like comment down below.

Cause there's even to multiple different locations. So we have a bunch of different people tuning in for everything. So just comment down below, like leave your comments, leave your questions, like smash the like button, love button, like share this out. And we're going to kind of turn this here. All right, Russell. What's up? Hey man.

All right, dude. I've been wanting to, and I hate this terminology, but just pick somebody's brain like yours for the longest time and like this book. Oh my gosh. So give me, what do you like about the book? What was your favorite thing? Yeah. Well, let me tell you the back story.

So 2008 is when the market crashed last time, right? And I didn't realize that that year, over 500,000 copies were sold organically by people talking about it. Like talking about this is everything she's prophesying is happening right now and so back then i remember all my entrepreneur friends like you have to read this book happy like it was the word of mouth buzz to sell 500 000 copies of a book that's been you know the the author died whatever 30 years earlier you know that there's not active marketing out there it's just it's crazy and everyone's talking about like what's happening this book has happened 2008 and it's just like it's crazy. And everyone's talking about like, what's happened in this book has happened in 2008. And it was just like,

it's like prophecy. Now it was being fulfilled. And so everyone in 2008 was telling me to read this book. I remember buying it. And I was like, this is a really, really big book. And I kept trying to get it tried.

It took me a while to get into it. And I could never get into it. I read the first, I don't know, first two or 300 pages, like four or five times. And then finally this summer, I went on my very first trip where I didn't bring a laptop since my marriage.

So my wife is very proud of me. Dang. And so as I was leaving the office, I grabbed this book and I picked it up and I was like, I have no computer. But I got this one. I usually bring like 20 books just because I never know what I'm going to read. I just brought one. And I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be forced.

I'm on a lake for a week and a half with my kids. And all I can do is read this book. So I brought it. I got the audio book as well. It's funny. I do the same way i listen audiobook and read along um yeah i can listen to it way faster that way and uh and i started going through it it took me a little while she does such a good job of character development very beginning it took a while to get into it yeah for sure it's like it's like thing after thing after thing so oh yeah it got crazy and so for me, it was interesting because I think if I would have listened to it 10 years ago or read it 10 years ago, I had never experienced any of the things they talk about in this book, right? Now you don't have to worry about it.

Yeah, I get better. I never experienced like government regulations and things like that, right? Or just those kinds of things. And, um, as ClickFunnels has grown from, from me and Todd to, you know, to our first, our first member, to our first thousand, 10,000, a hundred thousand member, you know, 400, 400 employees, a lot, 400 plus employees. Um, as it's grown, it's been crazy because you would think that like all we'd be focusing on here inside of ClickFunnels, like the next feature in the app, the next thing, you know, and like,

there's a year where we have spent entire year just refactoring the software for gdpr compliance we have regulations that come in on on taxes and this like just it's constant we're like most of the battles we fight click funnels right now it's not about like how do we make this thing better for the customers like how do we protect our customers from the government like it's crazy and like there's so many regulations and things and so like i've been feeling this pressure um some of you guys may have seen my uh interview i did with tony rob or not interview but uh tony robinson intervention with me last year in fiji yeah that was fascinating by the way i'm so glad we captured that like it was a uh a really cool moment in my life but if you listen in there i talked about he was like what do you want to do and i was like i don't know but i like the pressure

like i love the game so i love everything i'm doing i love the people we're serving but like there's these other pressures that aren't the game that aren't the people that are just like, they get so heavy sometimes where it makes me want to just walk away. And again, I didn't, you know, as I'm reading this book, you hadn't read that the book of this time ready. Yeah. Okay.

As I'm reading this, when it's like, did you like, did you know anything about like, like, you know, nothing. Okay. Okay. I didn't know what I was starting to mend. I was just like, Oh, it's Alice. I didn't know that. And it was like, when I read this title, like what would you tell Atlas if okay i didn't know what i was talking about i was just like oh it's atlas i didn't know what and it was like when i read this title like what would you tell atlas if this was happening to shrug and i was like oh that's

why they called out the shrug and then i remember feeling like like vividly feeling the pressure of this calling right and how heavy it is and there's been so many times i wish like okay sometimes be so nice to walk away or to shrug or whatever and so like i instantly like when dagny's character i was like i feel that with hank reardon like i i had so much empathy and like understood their characters because i feel that so many times right i just felt like hank reardon just wanted to invent his steel and put it out that's all he cared about right for me you know funnels are my art like like i can't draw but like funnels are my that's my art and entrepreneurship that's my art and so i just want to do my art that's it like i just want to create still and it's all these other things and it's

like i just i just want to do my steel like how do i you know i just want to do my art how do i what i have to do with all this other stuff and um and so as i'm reading this like i just had so much empathy for the characters because i felt like i was the characters even though it's weird because it's railroads and stuff right right you know and i'm internet but um i think that's why i really got into it and then i got just curious like like what happens like how does this story end because i'm in the middle of it and if you you know you depending who's listening you may or may not have felt some of these pressures um as you grow you feel them like like uh it's interesting as click phones is growing we talked about like like the the the pressure that that i feel today

would have crushed me five years ago right and it's like you have to go through this thing we build capacity to handle next set of pressure and build capacity and build capacity and nowadays like stuff happens daily that's just like man that would have destroyed me five or six years ago you know and so i think if you guys haven't felt that as you grow as you continue to try to like get your message out and try to grow your businesses whatever like the bigger you get the more that pressure comes do you think so with that and i want to continue that because it's such a good conversation but like with that with the pressure the things that are happening now like daily that would have like wrecked you five years ago three years ago like whatever it was do you think it's good though that that they did wreck you back or

that that they would like is it good that at the capacity that you understood that those you took things seriously then, or would it have been better for you to just like be in this mindset? Like, I know it's not possible, but like looking back, like if you could like snap your fingers and back then would have had the mental capacity to ignore all of those things and like go up with it. Would that have been a good thing? Or like the fact that you went through all those things, does that help? Going through it is what makes you worthy of the things, right? You're ready for it. Otherwise it's like lifting weights. Like you try to squat 800 pounds. You're like, that's worthy of the things, right? You need to be ready for it. Otherwise, it's like lifting weights. Like you try to squat 800 pounds.

You're like, that's what it feels like, right? Your legs buckle and you die. But because you went through that things, you're able to have the capacity to hold the weight. Okay. Yeah. So anyways, the thing for me that was the big thing is reading this. And so I was just like, fascinating. So I was like, this is kind of my story.

Like what, how does it end? How long did it take you to get through it? I said about two months. I got a lot of it down the boat and i got into biking for a little while so i was like listen to i'll be biking biking biking like one more chapter one more chapter because of it um it's funny because you know one of the one of the premises and um they don't really say they don't say greed is good but there's a chapter i think it's called greed and i remember if you guys ever seen wall street, uh, Gordon Gekler talks about greed is good. And I never understood that, that premise, right? And the book, they start talking about how, how like greed is what drives this whole thing.

Is it called greed? I'm trying to find it. Utopia of greed. Yeah. And then anti-greed. So utopia of greed and then anti-greed. So what's interesting is, um, cause we're taught, all of us are taught that greed is bad, right?

Like, that's just like, shouldn't be greedy. Like that's a, I think a principle that's instilled in most of us. But then I think about for me, when I started this business, why did I start this business? I want to make money. Yeah. That's greed, right? You think about any of us, like we go through a phase in all of our lives that the greed is the driving factor, right?

When I wanted to become a good wrestler, I wanted to become like, I i want i want to become a good wrestler it's greedy yeah i went and got coaches and spent all my time to be and i i became i was in a very selfish time in my life not as bad but it's a very greedy time right um kids when they're first born like i love my kids they are so they're not in a bad way but they're greedy it's about them right right and um it's this growth phase where growth you have to be greedy you're in the growth phase right you're trying to learn you're being you're sucking things and you're learning and you're you're not contributing it you're just learning you're growing and um and it was interesting because as i'm going through this i'm like the greed is what got me into business right and it's what got these things started and then the byproduct of that is jobs were created and

things like all the byproduct of it is like i think in the book how it justifies like like frank reardon going after he wanted to build, still make a bunch of money, tens of thousands of jobs and change the world and change all these things. And so the premise of the book is that greed is this driving force that gets you, gets you moving. And it is like, if you think about any aspect of your life from sports to education, to business, to everything I get starts with greed. Now we'll go deeper in this. I don't want to ever think that I'm just into this because there's a transition point we'll talk about in a minute but there's a transition point from greed from growth to contribution that happens yeah but but that's in the book where i start talking about that and um i remember i was on the green belt

here in boise riding my bike with james p for listening to this when i'm reading that listening to that chapter and um and i was trying to think like is this is this true like like did I get started because of greed? And it's like, yeah, I didn't start a business. I want to change the world. Eventually that happened, but it wasn't like it was greed was this was the driving force that moved me forward. I think it moves all of us forward this long time. And I was, as I was listening, as I'm riding my bike, I'm like, yes, I understand this. And then the other half of me was like, I started thinking about my spiritual upbringing, right? I'm very Christian. Uh, I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. And I, and I started thinking about Christ and his teachings, which are like,

honestly the opposite of that, right? It's like really the polar opposite, which it's funny whenever you say that people are like, you know, Jesus was a socialist. I hear that a lot. I'm like, you need to read the bible but um anyway but like i think he definitely is way more liberal leaning right right and i think that that's where republicans conservative like traditionally on that side of the aisle like fiscally republicans uh get into trouble is like we're like yeah we're christians but like we just want to get rich and like they never talk about like all this stuff that like people like to use christianity i feel like as a like when it's convenient and they don't we call it cafeteria christians right they

pick and choose the things off the menu they want right and then then they go through and do it so i i definitely want to dive further into that but continue down that continue that yeah hey funnel hackers i want to talk about building your business you've got the idea the passion the drive but here's the thing setting up the legal stuff can feel like a total roadblock. That's why you need Northwest Registered Agent. They're like the dream team for business formation. With just 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can build your entire business identity. I'm talking about formation paperwork, a real business address, premium mail forwarding,

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That's rocket money.com slash R U S S E L L. That's rocket money.com slash Russell. So that, that started this question in my head though, of just like, so is greed bad then? Or is it good? Or like, where does it fit in the whole grand scheme of things because it is something that's instilled all of us from birth right when you're born your baby if you didn't have greed you would just die right it's me like i need some of the food i need food i need love i need shelter which makes you cry which thoughts creates people coming to you like it's it's greed is this driving forces instilled in humans from from birth right when we come here greed is what what helps us survive the first part of our life and um and at first i was having this like conundrum i was like god like

is this book evil like myself right but i'm like all the good things in my life that happened happened initially because of seed of greed started me on on motion right started me momentum and then i started thinking uh if you've read the expert seekers book which if you haven't you, you haven't, you must hate money. Come on. No, but in the beginning, expert seekers book, I talk about this concept as well, where, um, as an expert, there's, there's two phases we go through. The first is a growth phase, right? Like I want to be an expert in whatever you go through and you're, you're a consumer, right? Consuming everything. And that's greed, right? And then there's this transition point where eventually you keep you keep trying to grow grow grow grow right trying to learn everything going there i'm listening to podcasts i'm reading all the books i'm growing growing

growing and eventually uh there's this this point i remember feeling in multiple parts of my life in wrestling i felt it in business i felt it where where you can't continue i guess it gets hard like that your ability to grow through consumption slows to almost like a halt where you can't continue to grow right and so for me it's like for my i've shared the story i think i shared in the book with wrestling it was like i was i was a really good wrestler was a high school state champ i was in uh took second place in the nation i was an all-american and my senior year i got invited to go to wrestling tournament and my wrestling or uh not wrestling wrestling camp my coach is like hey do you want to come coach

wrestling this summer and i was like why would i do I, like what's in it for me before you go on here? I want to ask you something. Is this, so you're riding your bike, like wrestling with this whole greed thing. Is this the first time that you've thought about greed in this way? Like it's the first time. So like, and this is how long, this is what, six months ago? Um, not even that probably, probably through maybe four months ago. So you've built most of click

funnels of what click funnels is today and now this is the first time like you're really sitting down and like wrestling with this idea of like greed and is it bad is it good like what's the balance there and stuff like that yeah that's fascinating yeah it never crossed my mind really um and then i started like it became this thing where like it bothered me because i'm like oh my gosh like i don't want to be agreed like, like, you know what I mean? Right. And I'm like, I don't feel like I am, but like, but I was stuck. I couldn't figure that out. Right. And so I'll rewind to the wrestling story. Cause I think I set it up. Yep. But, um, my senior year. So again,

I had been growing as a wrestler. I was going to camps, I was getting coaching and it was greedy, right? I was sucking up everyone's brainpower. I could and I became a really good wrestler because of it. And then, um, I, my coach asked me to go coach at wrestling camp so i say yes go to wrestling camp and um and i remember he's like okay i need you to teach uh my best move is cheap like i'm really good at tilt so the rest is out that i'm really good at cheap tilts and he's like teach these kids how to do cheap tilt and i was like okay like so i walk out like 30 kids i'm like hey you do

this like you just do like that and they all grab all look at me, and they go try it. And they try to do cheap tilt, and they all just fall apart. And I'm like, you're just dumb. It's not that hard. I'm like, get back in. Come back in. No, you did it all wrong. That's how you do it.

I show them again. They go do it. They go back out. Nobody can do it. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, gosh, they're missing something. What is this? I have them come back in. I start breaking down.

Like, hey, move to work. Your hips have to be here. Your legs have to be here. I start walking through all the things. And as I'm doing that, I start realizing, start realizing like oh the reason why i'm able to do this because of this i started realizing what i was doing as i was teaching people as i taught it to people then then the kids started doing it and they got better and better and also i started realizing like oh my gosh like this movement works because of this and now that i was aware of the

like the situation now i was able to like make these tweaks and stuff on my own. And, and like, I realized that by coaching other kids, I like, that was the next level growth. It was the shift from like selfish greed growth to contribution. And so after I started coaching camps every year and that's how I started, I went from like slowing down my progression to like, all of a sudden it sped back up again by shifting from growth to contribution. Okay. And so I think the same thing happens in business, right?

I got in business because that seat of greed is in us. It gets us moving, gets us into momentum. And some people never get out of that. Some people live their entire lives chasing greed and they die. And it's, it's a tragedy, right? But I think for most people, there's this transition point. I don't know where it happens, happens different spots for everyone, where all of a sudden you realize you make the money, you start the business and you realize how unfulfilling that is, right? You're, you're tapping out. You're like, I'm not growing anymore. Like I thought I wanted money, but I don't, I want growth. Like that's what we're here on this planet for us to get us to grow as humans, right? You don't get that. And also you realize money's not fulfilling,

but then you start help. You start seeing the other people you're contributing to, how you're helping. And then it shifts to like, you know, we hear people talk about like, it's an impact about impact, about growth. It's about helping other people. And like, that's that transition. That's charity love. That's pure's an impact about growth. It's about helping other people. And like, that's that transition. That's charity love. That's pure love of Christ, right? It's that transition. But greed is the seed that gets us moving.

Right. And so there's this, there's this, like this handoff. It doesn't happen all the time. And just quick, I guess, cool. If I get like, like share scripture stuff. Cause like all this stuff is scriptural. Like it's not just, they don't get to decide. It's my podcast.

I wrote down some scripture, like this is scriptural. Like it's not just, they don't get to decide. Russell, it's my podcast. We need scriptures. Close your ears. I wrote down some scripture. Like this is a scripture. So because it, it, it illustrates this point. Like I think it's so good. Also, I just want to say Russell Vox me.

And he said that this is the first episode of a podcast that he's ever prepared for. And I just feel like when you said that, I'm like, ha, I was the first for something for Russell. Let's go. I want to be ready.

Okay. So this is the scripture. It says for the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever. I'm sorry. Their case, the natural man's enemy. God, why is that? We're born.

We have this greed inside of us. So we're the natural human is the enemy of God because we're chasing after greed. Right. But, but, but God gives us that seed because it's what creates momentum. It creates motion. It creates us doing something, right? And then it says in here, it says, for the natural man is the enemy of God and has been for the fall of Adam

and will be forever and ever. And then this is the transition point. Unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit. So he'll be, like, he's greedy forever, right? Forever and ever. Unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and put it off the natural man and become with the saint through the atonement of christ the lord and become with the as a child submissive meek humble patient full of love willing to submit to all things which the lord sees fit to inflict upon him even as a child that's meant to his

father so growth is the seed it's the natural man it's the thing we have that it's good right god gives it to us because it gets us to do stuff gets us to learn it gets us to not die in our crib like because we need love and attention and get fed right something that gets us off our butts off the couch is us being producers it gets us moving and if we're not careful though the natural man will will destroy us like you see so many people who have made tons of money and they destroy themselves in their lives because they don't do that second thing which is um uh unless he yields the entire Holy spirit, that's the thing saying, this is not about money. This is about the impact. Look at the people you're changing and it shifts, right? If you make that shift and all of a sudden now the senior crane is not about

greed. It's like, Oh my gosh. Like, like I remember for click phones, like when I had that transition, it's like when I started seeing Brandon and Caitlin Poland, I started seeing the ripple effect of their business. I started seeing like, and I can name hundreds of people, like person to person to person. I was like, this isn't about money. This is about the ripple effect of their business. I started seeing like, and I can name hundreds of people, like person to person to person. I was like, this isn't about money. This is about the ripple effect of what we've created. Each person's live. And like, now that's charity. That's love. That's like, now the mission isn't about money. Like we don't care about them. I, we keep score with money, but like that's the mission is the people's lives and the impact. And I think that's that transition where it's like greed is the thing that gets us moving. But if we don't have that,

I think that's happened in the book. We talked talked about like you said this in my house earlier like a lot of people in the book seem like they have a miserable wife and it's like yeah because they never yielded to the spirit like they never made that shift it was all greed to the point where they let everything collapse as opposed to like yeah so one of the things about the book and i'm i'm sitting on the plane like on the way over here and i'm like how do i articulate this because that's always the hardest thing. You have this idea in your head, and you're like, how do I get it out and explain it in a way that somebody else can be like, yes, I understand that. But most – and I'm going to go kind of political here for a second.

I'm going to bring it back too specifically to the book. So I am pretty vocally a conservative. I'm a blatant Trump supporter, very much so conservative when it comes to everything fiscal, but I call myself a libertarian because I actually think that I, I lean left on a lot of social issues. Like I am, I think the government should stay out of gay marriage, right? Like I should, like, there's a lot of things that like, I like lean left on, but when it comes to like money and like finances and like things like that, like I lean to the right. But like the reason I

lean to the right and I typically go with the right is because like, I like what the left is trying to do in concept, right? It's like, okay, there's a bunch of like people that are really, truly in need. Like, I agree. We like, we need to help them. Problem is, is that the way they go about doing it, I like so radically disagree with. It's like, I guess everything I stand for, right? I'm like, it's not that I disagree with what you want to do is I disagree with how you want to do it. What's interesting is I feel like in this book, I feel like it's like the opposite. I actually don't agree with why they're doing it. Like this concept of like, I mean, Hank Reardon says it like over and over again, like everything that I do is for profit.

That is it. That is, it is not for you even to his friends right like he took a bullet for um uh john gold right like he gets shot and like john gold thanks him for it he goes you know i only did it because it's what i wanted to do right like literally like saves a guy's life he's like so it's like it's all about what he wants it only for him and that's it it's like profit and money and dollars it's not about everything that he helps and i'm like i disagree with that premise like i don't but the what that leads to i actually do like and i feel like it's flipped compared to like the light the world that like i'm living in now it's like half the stuff but the democrats or i hate to i don't do politics so bad but like left and right the left yeah the left guys we're gonna say left and right generalized here all right oh

my god but like generally speaking and so when it comes to like the whole the whole greed issue i'm like it's interesting to hear your perspective like because i never even throughout the book i'm like greed is a bad thing and like hearing your perspective and like like you know what it says i'm like okay like i understand what you're saying but like what like is it greed or is there some other driving like if i were to ask you a year ago right when were you in like the heart of click funnels like a year and a half ago two years like there was a time of your life with all you i don't know all you do is click funnels but like when like six years of my life but like but you know what i mean like wasn't there like a year or two period in there like in the growth phase where there's like a hundred percent of

everything you do is like click on click on so close it felt like you were going non-stop it feels like you're a little bit more balanced now maybe not but like from the outside perspective looking at it does anyway yeah like during that time like of growing click funnels but like before you read that would you have described yourself as greedy no what would you have described yourself as like what's that word um i don't know uh that's a good question like i was always trying to create stuff like it's art for me right so it's like i was trying to create stuff um but i think initially i was creating for myself as opposed to like oh my gosh i create this for myself but look what happens to and what the people what point was that shit for you though um i think it i mean you can actually you can see it in my marketing by the way and by the way for those

who are greedy capitalists who only care about money like it actually is a better marketing way too like my my marketing went from for all you greedyapos out there switch to being a contributor for money well think about like my marketing was always like here's russell here's how much money my funnel made here's how much that you know it's me talking about me all the time and i realized it's like this like who cares about me like i don't care about me like let me show you what this person that like let me show you all the results of of of people we're serving like what's happening there which first off is a better marketing second off it's like it's that transition transition where i was literally like everything i've accomplished is stupid like what they're doing like that's the real like what we're doing

like that's the thing that's amazing right like that's the spiritual side of it that's the thing where it's like the the thing that got you into motion now is is doing good in the world and like when you start seeing that it's like oh my gosh like that that's so much more fulfilling and so much more exciting and you know people ask me last six years like why do you keep getting up do you need more money i'm like no like why are you getting up but i can tell you a hundred stories of people who literally like the ripple effect of like how many lives they've changed because i did my thing right like jamie we uh we made a documentary of the two comic club and jamie cross has this whole part of her she's bawling her eyes out. And she said, where would my family be if Russell wouldn't have fulfilled his God given

calling. And like, every time I see that, I start bawling myself, Mike, like that's why eventually you start doing it. Right. But when did that shift happen?

I don't know. It wasn't like a day that has happened. It just, it just, um, the energy of it shifted. Right. It was just,

it was like, I don't know. It was just, it gradually kind of happened. What's that? Yeah. Dave, Dave, come on in. Dave's got, Dave's here. Dave, take the mic here.

This is honestly, I think this has been one thing. It's been fun for me to watch Russell from, from the sidelines here. Yeah. I think honestly, it was your dad's 60th birthday. And I don't even know. Three or four years ago, probably. But it was, it was the reflection on that and it was the difference from having your hand raised versus because you remember you yeah

don't tell the story that's a much better story i'll i'll see the thought but i'll let him finish all right thank you thank you dave interesting guys we have a live audience here so um you know my dad turned 60 and um we have our little family reunion every year we do. And so it was during his birthday. And I remember my mom, my mom gave him $60, $60, $10, six $10 bills. And so I just gave him one at a time. I said, okay, the first decade was like one to 10. Like, tell us something you remember about that. He's like, I don't remember anything back then.

The second one, he's like 10 to 20. That's when I was a wrestler. Like, you know, it was so much fun for me. And then 20 to 30, it was like, okay, that's when when like i was starting my business trying to figure things out and trying to get our family stable 30 to 40 like that's when my kids were wrestling and i was i was coaching them and then 50 to 60 kind of went through everything and then after it was done i asked myself that of all the decades like what when was the the best for you thinking in my world like the best was going to be like when he was a wrestler because i was like for me the greatest part of my life was like when i was wrestling and my dad said the

greatest decade is when i got to coach you um and i remember um yeah i remember i forgot i forgot that story until dave said that but i remember um coming back and telling dave and other people that like um i always thought like the the best part was being the all-star that my dad the best part was like coaching other people and that was a good day huh which was which was really cool