The Russell Brunson Show - Hooks And Testing Your Material

Episode Date: August 28, 2018

A cool lesson I learned after a day of fly fishing, and a really cool story by the campfire. On this episode Russell talks about being on a retreat and learning to fly fish. He relates it to testing out new material and seeing what hooks people. Here are some of the cool things in today's episode: How trying to catch fish is similar to a comedian testing out new jokes, or an entrepreneur testing out new material. Why throwing out hook after hook after hook will help you figure out which one hits. And why it takes Russell a year to write one of his book, and how he tests out the material that will be in the book. So listen here to find out how if you set hooks and watch and learn from what the fish are doing, you can become a better fisherman, and a better marketer. Transcript - https://marketingsecrets.com/blog/hooks-and-testing-your-material Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With TD Direct Investing, new and existing clients could get 1% cash back. Great! That's 1% closer to being part of the 1%. Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31, 2025. Visit td Brunson. I want to welcome you to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today, I am streaming from a little cabin in the middle of nowhere. So the big question is this. How are entrepreneurs like us us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, we're spending money from our own pockets. How do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable?

That is the question in this podcast. We'll give you the answers. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. Hey everyone, I hope you guys are doing amazing. If you listened to our last episode, you know that this last few days I've been on a top secret retreat with a whole bunch of amazing business owners and it's been cool but interesting um some things that were amazing things were like weird that i learned about myself so other things so i just want to kind of share with you some of this stuff um and hopefully hopefully as we get some benefit from it so i'm actually right now sitting in in the cabin everyone's leaving and packing up and i've got probably 30 minutes or so before I've got to get out of here.

But just was sitting here just contemplating on some of the stuff that I've learned and figured out over the last couple of days. So to begin with, I want to step back for those who don't know me very well. So I'm like the least manly man ever. Like I don't go hunting or hiking or fishing or like any any man things i'm not like if my house breaks i don't know how to fix things like i don't know i'm good like one thing that's like selling stuff and the marketing selling it which i love but i'm not good other things especially like things are like typical man stuff and so my one big fear on this trip is it's like a man trip like it's all it's like all these dudes and um we're

doing like manly things right like um we went fly fishing and then we went hiking and then we went shotguns and um it's interesting like it's interesting what you learn about yourself because like i know that like i'm introverted by nature and i just assume that at this point my life like that i'm not especially around a group of people you know they're point in my life, like, that I'm not, especially around a group of people, you know, that are, like, in my same world. I'm like, oh, this is going to be so much fun. But it's funny how, I don't know, it was tough for me a lot of times. Like, the introvert Russell kept popping out, and it was like, ah, it was frustrating.

Like, knowing that about myself, like, why am I, like, why am I, why do I feel so awkward in some of these situations that don't make sense? So for any of you guys who are, like, who feel that sometimes, and you don't understand, like, or you like, why am I, why do I feel awkward here? Why do I not feel comfortable? Like it still happens to me, even among my peer group where it's just like, I don't know. It's just, ah, it's just tough sometimes. So, um, but we probably got through it. Um, and, uh, it makes them really good, you know, some great relationships, which is cool. Um, but then the second part is like, okay, we're gonna go to these man things. And so the first thing was like, uh, yesterday we went

to go fly fishing and I, okay, incomplete. Some of you guys are going to tease me forever. I'm sure I'll hear about this, uh, when you meet me at the airport and other weird places that you guys bump into me at. But, um, so I went fishing once as a kid and i got my own pole my dad gave me my own pole for my birthday or something and had all this stuff and i was out there i was so excited and i caught a fish i still remember it was a bluegill fish i caught it so excited i did the whole like thrill of the catch and he pulled in and then um and then i remember after we got in the in the boat like it died like fish do when you catch them and then i remember after we got in the boat, like, it died. Like, fish do when you catch them. And then I remember taking it home, and, like, I felt so bad.

Like, I felt horrible. Like, I can't believe we killed this animal. And so we actually had a funeral for it. I legitimately had a huge funeral in our backyard. I made a little headstone for my bluegill fish. We called it, like, I think we called him bluegill or bluey or something like that. I don't know, but we had a huge funeral for them because I felt so bad. And that was the last time I killed an animal.

So I have these weird little kid trauma stuff. So I'm here like, okay, we're going to teach you fly fishing. You're going to do this whole thing. You're going to rip the hook out of their mouth and all sorts of stuff. So anyway, it's funny. We go down there and they get me all set up and teach me how to do the casting, which that part was kind of cool, you know, and try to figure it out. And I'm like completely horrible at it, by far the worst of everybody here.

And I'm trying to do the thing, trying to get the thing out there and I'm getting the hook out, you know, and so I throw out the hooks out there. And what's interesting is I'm sitting there in the middle of nowhere, next to this little pond. I'm like the only person there and there's, you know, I'm casting this thing, trying to hopefully catch a fish. It was interesting because I'm noticing that like there's this hook on the end of nowhere next to this little pond i'm like the only person there and there's you know i'm casting this thing trying to hopefully catch a fish it was interesting because i'm noticing that like there's this hook on the end of my pole and i'm throwing it in then pull out throw it in pull that throw it out pull and i'm like doing this over and over and over like for like hundreds of times like casting in these hooks um trying to like catch a fish

right and here comes the moral of the lesson for for today i was looking at it i was like this is so much like like business right like you guys have heard me talk about the whole hook story offer framework which is like the foundation of everything we're teaching nowadays is like you have created an irresistible offer then you've got to have a story that like amplifies the value of that offer and then you have to have a hook that gets that stops them and grabs them right like in in our world right now everyone's so busy through social media there's a million things and then you have to have a hook that gets, that stops them and grabs them, right? Like, in our world right now, everyone's so busy through social media, there's a million things happening every second. It's just like, how do you grab someone, you know, pull them away from where they're at and like, get them to focus for five seconds. Like, that's the hook, right?

I'm thinking about this, like, for me fishing, I'm throwing a hook in and another hook and another hook and another hook. And I'm trying to like, to get this to get these fish to like notice my hook and come and eat it right I'm doing over and over and over again and finally I remember um the very first hole all of a sudden the little bobby thing I can't remember it's called boom goes under the water I was like oh my gosh a fish took my hook like it bit my hook and I remember the first the first thought that went through my mind. Um, and there's a, there's a moral to this too, but somebody, somebody grabbed on the line and, and the fish went under or the little thing went under and I was like, Oh no, I have a fish. And the first time

I had this, I freaked out and I was like, I hope that he gets away. Like, I don't want to catch this thing. I don't want to hurt this thing. I don't want it to like, like, I just got so scared and like, I was like praying, like, like fish get away. Like, I don't want to pull you in. I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to like hook your face with a hook. Like what kind of person does that? You know, like freaking out all these things, like all the emotions going through my head. Um, I start pulling it in and this fish is huge. Like, I think this is a 26 inch something. Like it's big, it's a big fish. I'm pulling this thing in and reeling it in and um the

old man um comes out he's trying to hook you know scoop in the basket and then the fish is flipping around it flipped out and like it fell out of the basket we didn't get it and i was like oh dang like uh but then partially kind of grateful like oh good i didn't catch it i didn't have to do it's like the aftermath of catching a fish and then like it was funny because I was like, hey, we'll start fishing again. I was like, ah, do I really want to throw the hook back in? I'm like, I don't know. And I'm like, everyone else is doing it. I don't want to look like that guy.

So I'm kind of like halfway throwing my hook in. And then we moved from pond to pond to pond. And so I'm doing this thing. And I think I caught two or three other little fish. And luckily, we let them go, which I was like, oh, thank heavens. So we caught them, let them go, which I was like, Oh, thank heavens. So we caught him, let him go. And,

um, but I definitely was like the worst, like everyone, like Dean Graciosi is here. He caught like, I don't know, like 30 fish or something. I think I caught like one and a half.

So it's like way different. Right. But I was looking at Dean and he's out there and he's throwing it in, out, in and out. He's like, send the hooks. And he's, he's getting better as he's watching.

He like, he, he, first thing he knows, he's like, he's like, if I walk towards the water, the fish can see me, they freak out. So he'd like send the hook and he's he's getting better as he's watching he like he'd first thing he noticed he's like he's like if i walk towards the water the fish can see me they freak out so he'd like get low and he'd like on his knees and he'd like sneak over to the water and then he'd throw his thing in and he'd see as the fish get closer as soon as they'd open mouth he'd rink it out and he was just like pulling fish after fish after fish like it was crazy to watch and i'm looking at something like we all have the same tools right like we both have fishing poles we have things but like um like what are what are the things we're doing different right and so some of the lessons i was thinking through on this for for us as business

owners is like like all this out there we're throwing out hooks right um and if our hook doesn't convince the fish that it's like a worm or a bug or whatever they're not going to come in and bite your line right i think a lot of times we some of us are trying this business you're putting out your first thing and nobody bites and you're like oh like you know um internet marketing doesn't work it's like no your hook didn't work right like you keep throwing a hook in and after hook after hook after hook like half of what i do in this business so they figure out hooks to like grab people every email i I send is a hook. Every Facebook live is a hook.

And I'm just like trying all these different hooks to see which things people respond to. And it's interesting because even me, like tons of my hooks fail. Like tons of the different messages I put out there do not resonate with people. They don't do anything with them. It's really fascinating. And the good news is nobody knows when they fail because nobody sees them because nobody, we don't put much advertising dollars behind it because the first hook didn't catch any fish, right? And so that's kind of the first lesson is just like understanding.

It's just like catching fish. Like you're standing on the bank and it's like, yeah, I'm going to cast this thing 30, 40, 50 times before I'm able to get a fish to believe that it's um it's it's a bug right it's the same thing for you like you got to cast out all these different messages and headlines and hooks and things until you until like you find something that like somebody grabs onto i remember anthony d clementi when we launched the biohacking secrets book like i had these ideas for the hooks i thought were going to be the best thing and and we had him start doing a facebook live every single day and he did the first facebook live and it was like throwing the hook out and like crickets right next facebook live crickets third one fourth one fifth one six one seven he kept tweaking and changing his messaging and trying different stories and different hooks and different things and he was like the 11th or the 17th i can't

remember it's a number like that like like the hook was the right hook i think it was like how to biohack your vegetables and that one went out there and it hit, it was like, boom. And all these people started coming, um, coming towards, um, coming towards him. Um, I think that the video, I'm getting like a million views and it's just crazy, but it was like the hook. It was like, that was a hook that, that caught the fish. Right. And so I think all of you guys need to start, stop freaking out about like making the perfect headline, crafting the message perfectly, and putting it out there. Like, okay, I'm launching a webinar in a month from now. I've got 30 days to throw out 30 different hooks to find out which one's going to be the one that actually grabs people, right?

And so that can be a Facebook Live every single day. It could be you set up an ad with like 20 different headlines and rotate it through and see which one gets the highest click-through rate. Like there's a lot of really basic things you can do, but it's just testing things and like seeing what actually gets the fish to grab, right? Number two is now that you, you know, everyone's going to be, we're all fishing from the same pond. And if you look at it, it's like how come Russell pulled out one fish and Dean pulled out like 30? Like what was the difference? And it's like, well, Dean was like paying attention to like the market really close really close right he noticed every time he walked towards the the pond the fish would scatter right um i think a lot of you guys try something and you're not like noticing what's happening right

like when i do facebook live i'm watching like what are people's reactions and comments and did anybody share this one and what were they saying and what was happening and i'm looking to like to see what the market's responding to and if it's if it's like if i get a good response or if i'm doing a facebook live and i say something also like people start going crazy i'm like oh interesting like so i'm paying attention to what's happening and i'm taking mental note of that so as i'm doing the next thing i do it better um one of the the really cool stories that um um who was it told it on the campfire one of the guys here told it on the campfire but they're talking about how if you look at um the stand-up comedy right like a stand-up comedian

doesn't just like one day show up on whatever tonight show and do do his pitch and they just crush it right he said what happens is that they go and they play the the small shows for like a year two years right they go they do go for first place and they they test all these jokes and they say okay you know i did all these jokes and they say, okay, you know, I did all these jokes and like 20% of them landed that like people were going crazy. The other 80% were like, eh, okay.

So then they take that. They then delete the 80% of the jokes that didn't land. Then they go to, you know, write some new jokes and they go to the next show. They do the same 20% that people died for last time.

So they perfect like how they deliver that message and they try out, you know, 80% new jokes. And from and from the 80 new jokes made two or three land really good this time so they take now the 20 before the two or three new jokes now the next show they use those those 40 percent they know are good and they test out new material and they do it over and over and over again until eventually they've they've got all the jokes that just land perfectly hit and then they come and um and when they go to uh um you know when they go on the today show or tonight show or whatever i don't know whatever the big comedy show is they're up there and they tell and like they slay because every single joke they know lands because they've tested it over and

over and over again but it's not just like they show up and they just write this pitch and hope it's good and the same thing should be true for you guys right like when you're doing your webinars like i look at now like like people are crushing, how did your webinar crush it so well? And the reality is, you know, I've spent 10 years prior to me writing the ClickFunnels webinar already for these webinars. And I've been, you know, speaking on the road, doing podcast interviews, doing teleseminar, doing my own podcast, doing all sorts of stuff.

And all I'm doing is I'm testing, I'm testing my material, right? Just like a comedian would. I'm testing thing after thing after thing. And I'm seeing what lands, I, I'm testing my material, right? Just like a comedian would. I'm testing thing after thing after thing and I'm seeing what lands and I'm seeing what doesn't land, right? Like at Funnel Hacking Live last year, I did six presentations. My first presentation did not land, like as a whole. There are a couple of pieces that did okay, but I do know that that presentation didn't land.

The second presentation I did, it crushed it. My Funnel Audibles presentation, for those who. Um, that one, like that was the one, um, of my presentations that people just like that one nailed it. Like, so I know that message is like, boom. So I'm like, okay, funnel audibles. That's an important message. That's something I go deeper with. I got to create a bunch of really cool things around that because that one crushed it. Right. Um, they even within the framework of a presentation, like I'm telling stories like which ones nailed, which ones crushed it, which ones didn't. And I'm tweaking that. Right. So for any of you guys who were, like I'm telling stories, like which ones nailed, which ones crushed it, which ones didn't. And I'm tweaking that, right?

So for any of you guys who are like, I'm going to go make a webinar today. And you go and you start creating it. If you haven't been doing this thing where we're standing on the side of the bank, throwing our hook in over and over and over and over again to see what jokes hit and which ones don't, you're going to struggle. Because you have no idea. And then you're going to do your best webinar. You're going to hope it's good. And you're going to spend all this Facebook ad money. You're going to do it.

And then you go and you do it. And what happens? Like it bombs. And it's like, well, you know, 20% of the jokes, 20% of your, your, the stories, the things you didn't write, they're 8% failed because like you put all your eggs in one basket. You had no idea. And that's why, that's why sometimes these things don't, don't hit.

Right. And so for you, it's like starting today. That's why I tell, I tell people all the time i did a big i did a three-day facebook live after the expert secrets book launch and the whole thing was about like finding your voice it was like okay do a facebook like every single day and then you're watching you're seeing people people react and you feel like okay these stories resonate these ones didn't resonate this one did this story this joke this idea this concept this false belief this um this epiphany bridge story this kind of like bridge like you're just testing it over and over

and over again in fact um uh the day before i left on this trip and the night before i went to my buddy chad walner he's a chiropractor and he was having a big chiropractor event in his at his office in boise and he asked if i could come speak and you know it was a group of like 20 people and you know I normally charge a lot of money to speak and it was funny I love Chad he's like he's like how much would it cost to have you have have you come speak at my thing and I kind of smiled I was like dude I'll just come speak he's like no I want to pay you I'm like you don't want to pay me what it would cost but I was like but it's worth it to me because number one you're a friend it'd be fun to do that. But number two, like I have some new material I want to test. Like literally that was it. So I did this presentation with him because I was trying to fill out this new material. Now,

um, today I'm flying to Minneapolis to go speak at Dana Derrick's event. There's gonna be a hundred people there. And, um, I'm giving a new presentation. I mean, I've never done before that actually the framework for the new traffic secrets book. And so I'm in the process of writing the book right now. In fact, someone asked me like, how long does it take you to write a book? And I said, you know, about a year. And he said, it takes you a year to write a book? I'm like, well, yes, but it's not like I'm writing for a year. So for example, what's happening is like I'm speaking at Dana's and I have the outline

for my book and I have a two hours time slot. So for two hours, I'm going to be teaching the framework for my book. And I'm going to see what hits and what doesn't. That's literally why I'm speaking at Dana's event. Because it's his topic. Well, number one, I love Dana. He's the man. But number two is it's like his event is called Dream 100 Con.

So it's about Dream 100, which is like the foundation of Traffic Secrets. And so it's like this is a perfect audience and opportunity for me at a small scale to test out my material so i'm testing out the material here at dream 100 con and i'm going to use it and again teaching my entire book like the whole framework's like at a higher level of like here's all the pieces and like i'm going to feel how that felt and then in two months from now for my two comic club x members i have a two-day event where I'm teaching the framework for the Traffic Seekers book again. So this time, first one's two hours. I'm going to test the higher level material.

And this time, I'm going to do the second one, which I'm going to have a chance to test all the material, every single section in depth, in detail, every story, all the different pieces. I'm going to feel like what works, what doesn't work. I'm going to cut things out, move things around. And then I'm going to start writing the book. Okay? Hey, funnel hackers, let me paint you a picture. You're running a business. Your funnel's finally converting like crazy, and suddenly it hits you.

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gonna teach this whole framework because it's not working. So we flew all these people in, I had a hundred people show up at this event in Boise and I taught the dot-com secrets principles in a three day event. And what was cool is like teaching it. I saw what material worked, what didn't work. And I was able to kind of from that make some tweaks and some changes in fact the day after the event I sat down um uh with Julie Easton who was uh the main writer helping with the dot-com Seekers book and we spent like four hours at the event I was like okay this story sucked like nobody got it didn't make sense like um this concept I taught I had to teach this one first thing to make sense We moved the outline around.

We moved the end. We spent like four or five hours just rebuilding the outline, the framework, deleting stuff that didn't hit, keeping stuff in that did. And then that's when we wrote the second version, which then became the Dotcom Secrets book. Same thing happened with Expert Secrets. I went initially and I wrote this book based off my head. And then I got it back and I'm reading it. I'm like, none of these jokes are landing, right? And so then what I do, I threw a two day event,

threw everyone in. And for two days, I taught the expert secrets process and same thing happened. I saw what landed, what didn't land. And then after that, the next day went through, rebuilt the framework and then started the book round two. And then boom, we got expert secrets. So for the third book, traffic secrets, I decided I'm just going to start with the, I'm just going to start with the event. So, to start with the event so but notice what i'm doing right i'm throwing hooks out on the side of the side of the thing just throwing hook hook hook trying to see what things people resonate with what things people are gravitating towards so for you i want you just thinking about that like if you're writing your webinar pitch you're doing your thing and you haven't been throwing out hooks like like

you're just guessing you're writing your first version of your book and you're gonna get back and it may suck maybe awesome you land it the first time but you gotta you gotta go out on the road and like test your material um and you should be doing through all these different means doing through podcast interviews like like literally if you like podcast interviews are the easiest things right like if you're an expert matter in any topic go pull a dream 100 go log into your um your log into itunes find every podcast on your topic and then build out like a topic you can be interviewed on and message every single one like hey i love your podcast you know i talk about this can can you find me for your interview me for

your podcast and go get 10 different podcast interviews you can like try your test out your your uh your jokes test out your framework right test out your your concepts and see what lands see what doesn't and then the same thing on on facebook live do it on your own page you want other people's page like you're just testing out material the whole time so you can find out what lands what doesn't land um yeah that's it you guys so that was a big lesson i had just sitting here and i hope that hope that helps me you guys i know a lot of you guys have been scared or nervous or frustrated or whatever um but as soon as you know like what what hits right you know like these are the jokes that hit it's just like dean on the side of the thing like as soon as he figured out like okay

this is the hook this is the process that works he sat like i literally sat and wait there's like five different fishing holes we went to we had like 20 minutes each one so the last fishing hole he sat down at that point he figured out the hook he had figured out his approach he had figured out all like all his materials nailed it right and he walked over he snuck up to the side start throwing in he pulled out 12 fish boom boom boom boom boom 12 fish in the same pond i wasn't able to catch one right because i'm just throwing my thing in and praying for the best and part of me was so scared i'm hoping that people aren't gonna bite and i think some of you guys have that same fear like uh, uh, like I was scared.

Like, I can't even tell you. It was weird. Like as soon as that first fish bit that hook, I just wanted it to run away. And I'm sure the first time you guys do something and it hits, you're going to be like, oh, I'm like, some of you guys are going to get freaked out by it. It's like, oh my gosh, people responded. They, you know, they asked me questions like, and maybe it's something you did that made you vulnerable and also like you're vulnerable.

And like someone comes and says something and it's um anyway there's a lot of there's a lot of um there's a lot of magic to that so all right and just by the way btw um i'm 20 minutes in this podcast episode right and what was i doing today i was testing material i told you guys a story about fishing and the hook and how it worked and the comedian and like i was just testing this material first time first time i ever vocally shared it was right now okay and some of the pieces felt really good to me and i'm gonna watch over the next little bit after this podcast goes live i always know there's like um people responding for ways and some podcast episodes nobody responds other ones i see things people talking about people message me or things like that. I'm just feeling it.

I'm feeling like what one's nailed, which one's hit, which one's didn't hit. And so this, like literally, the Marketing Secrets Podcast, you know, if I'm completely honest, 90% of the reason why I do it is because I'm testing new material. Every single day, I have a chance

to test some more new material. And yeah, I think there's some cool things that came from it, right? The podcast I did a year and a half ago, the one I did for Nick Fitzgerald, where I talked about the entrepreneur, the technician, and the rainmaker. Like that was a, I'd never talked about it before. I never shared that. I pulled a podcast, did an hour long episode on it.

And that's going to be probably one of the chapters in the Traffic Seekers books. I was like, man, that nailed it. Like that resonated with so many people back then. Like that's going to become now some material i'm going to use in the future so um make sure you're using these publishing platforms even if no one's listening to you like just do it because it's a place to test your material and it's not always external feedback it's not like you guys respond to me like that was a good story russell i'm like cool i'm gonna remember that like i like you can feel it when you tell me explain something the first time you explain it's always gonna be the

worst too it's like i i told this this story it may come up in my presentation tomorrow dana's event like it totally could and i might tell it a little bit differently i'm gonna tweak some things like i know what at chad woolner's event um i talked about hook story offer and talk about framework and i know that um the way i did the offer the way i explained that i did not nail it like it was confusing and kind of clunky um the way i did story i felt good and the way i did hook i felt really good and so like i was like okay cool i learned some things the next time i teach offer i'm definitely going to make some changes based on on how i felt giving that presentation so anyway hope helps guys time to

start throwing some hooks it's time to start testing your material um and i think if you do that you're gonna have a lot of fun. So, all right, I've got to bounce. I've got to get everything packed up and get out of here so they don't leave me because if I miss the helicopter flying me back to the airport, then I'm screwed. So, all right, thanks, everybody. Appreciate you all. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you soon.

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