The Russell Brunson Show - Interview With My Original Mentor - Part 2 of 4

Episode Date: August 24, 2020

Want to know how ClickFunnels became so popular so fast? Or how we generated over $10,000,000 in revenue our very first year, right out of the gate? I'll give you a hint: We didn't sell ClickFunnels as a software. To find out how we were able to grow so fast... and how YOU can grow YOUR company by hacking what we did, listen in to part 2 of my interview with Mark Joyner! Transcript - https://marketingsecrets.com/blog/338-interview-with-my-original-mentor-part-2-of-4 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Travel moves us. Hey, everyone. This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secret Show. I hope that our last episode, you enjoyed episode number one of four with my interview with Mark Joyner. It's fun having a chance to re-listen to it and re-watch it. I had so much fun that night.

It was such a cool experience. With that said, I'm not going to do too much more other than set up the second part of this interview with Mark and, uh, hope you guys enjoyed. If you are enjoying this series, please, please, please, um, take a screenshot of this on your phone, wherever you listen to your podcast and post it on Facebook or Instagram and tag me in it. Do hashtag marketing secrets, tag me and, and please give me your comments, your feedback, your ideas, your ahas. I'd love to hear them. And with that said, I'm going to keep the theme song. When we come back, you listen to part two of my interview with Mark Joyner.

So the big question is this. How are entrepreneurs like us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, who are spending money from our own pockets, how do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. All right, what would be the third most significant strategic move?

Oh, there's a couple of different directions I could go on this one. Can I give two halves? Please. I love it. I love it. So one half is when we launched ClickFunnels, it wasn't just that we were going to build a software company. In fact, it was probably a month or two before we came out of ClickFunnels. I went with, I don't know if you know David Frye, but David's one of my mentors. Yeah, I love David. His wife's actually my second aunt.

Anyway, when he was dating his now wife, I was like a little snot-nosed kid running around at my grandma's house. Anyway, so. Oh, he's my buddy. I love David. He's my buddy. He's a great guy. Yeah, he's amazing.

And we were at this network marketing convention and I remember we were there and the company was a software company. We're sitting there with like 5,000 people in the room and all the people coming on stage and they're crying and all this stuff. And I'm just kind of confused. Like this doesn't make any sense. And I remember he leaned over to me after like two days of watching this. He said, you see what they're doing? I'm like, no, I have no idea what's happening. I'm so confused. He's like, they're not selling software. They built a community. And I was like, oh my gosh, like that's the thing.

They have this community, they have a culture. And so when we started doing ClickFunnels, it was like that mindset, like how do we build a culture? So it's not just like a software. It's like, I want to build something where people feel part of it. Like it's not Russell's company. If it's Russell's company, they're going to,

they'll go to whoever's the cheapest, whoever's got the new feature. If it's their's company, they're going to, they'll go to whoever's the cheapest, whoever's got the new feature. If it's, if it's their company, if it's their culture, that shifts everything. And so we started this whole thing from, from day one of like,

we're funnel hackers. This is our movement. That's what we believe in. This is what we, you know, and, and two weeks ago we had our funnel hacking live. We had 4,500 people in a room and people were going crazy.

We got people with like click funnels tattooed on their arms. Like people wearing custom funnels and like on their arms, people wearing custom stuff. We had people come on stage crying. I'm looking out and I'm like, six years ago, David Fry pointed out to me, and that became a big piece of it. So I think it was not just having this as a software product, but how to make this as a movement where it's bigger than that.

So that was one big strategic thing that I think a lot of people miss. Um, and then the second one is, um, you know, I think again, it comes back to like us as marketers. Um, we get so excited about the next thing.

Like what's the next offer we're going to create and the thing like that. And I remember after the first year, we click phones, we're at a certain point. And then me, I'm like, I need to, I want to create something new.

Even though like the market didn't necessarily need something new, but like I wanted to do something point. And then me, I'm like, I want to create something new. Even though the market didn't necessarily need something new, I wanted to do something else. And so what I started doing is I realized this funnel is kind of in the middle of my value ladder, the webinar funnel. And tons of people had seen it. It was starting to fatigue a little bit. And at that point, we'd done over $10 million in sales. That's when we launched the second funnel to bring people to ClickFunnels.

That's when basically I wrote the.comcom secrets book and that became a book funnel and people come in, they buy the book, they go through the book funnel. And then at the end of the book funnel, we send them up into the webinar. And you can see that funnel right there, by the way, the links up there for that. Oh, you guys should check that out, by the way. That's another very, very interesting thing. You guys need to funnel hack what the guy who teaches funnel hacking does because this dude has mastered this stuff and that that funnel is

sick it is sick anyway keep going yeah well so i'll tell you a story that kind of shows why this is so powerful about but a year and a half two years into click funnels we started getting all the calls right this is when the vcs and all the people like start noticing you and they're like, Hey, we want to be part of your journey. Like, and I just like, I have no desire to do any of that. And then one time, some guys like, like we're in Boise state. Can we meet with you? I'm like, okay, like, sure. Let's go to lunch. And it turns out they, they were in San Francisco. They jumped in a plane, a private plane flew in and then like drove drops like, Hey, like, where are you guys staying? Like, well, we just flew in like when like just right like it was the whole thing

that some trick me thinking like they were right there so i went to lunch with these guys and um and they started asking me like you know all the the vc questions like how much does it cost to acquire acquire a click funnels customer and i was like well if we drive ads to the home page it's like i can't remember the time 150 to acquire a customer and the guy starts getting all exciting and he's like okay so if we were to give you like, it's like, I can't remember the time, $150 to acquire a customer. And the guy starts getting all excited and he's like, okay, so if we were to give you like $40 million in funding, he was doing the math, like how many customers that would equal and all sorts of stuff. And he's getting all excited. And I was like, wait, wait, wait. I was like, we actually turned those ads off.

He's like, what? Why would you do that? Like, that's a great, you know, cost to acquire a customer in the bay or whatever. And I'm like, because like I'm, I'm bootstrapping this thing. I'm paying for this, these customers out of my pocket. If I'm paying $150 for a trial, I'm going to be broken like a week and a half. And so I said, but instead of what we did is we create these, these, these book funnels where someone comes in, they buy a book. I said, on average, we spend about $20 in Facebook ads to sell a book, but then there's a funnel, right? They web sell the audio book and there's a course and there's a couple of different products in the

funnel. And so we spend $20 to sell a book, but we make $40 in the book funnel. So I net $20 cash in my pocket. And then I tell those people, after you read this book, you understand the strategy of funnels. Here's how you actually, like now you need to use ClickFunnels. But so technically all of our customers actually pays $20 before we introduce them to ClickFunnels. And this is the other book funnel, by the way, guys, if you guys want to check that out. Yeah. So, I mean, and both of these are pretty sick because the first one was dot-com secrets and then expert secrets. And then traffic secrets is coming out in like a month. So that's the third one. I'm going to, I'm going to be at that event. Can I say that? Can I say it?

Can I say, yeah, Russell is holding this awesome live event. He's got, he invited a small group of speakers. Only 200 people are going to be there in the audience and he's, but he's going to be broadcasting this live all over the world. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be one of the speakers. I was very flattered and grateful that Russell invited me to be part of this. It's going to be sick. Russell is going to spread this thing all over the place. It's going to be madness. Everything that Russell has put on since, I mean,

over the last few years, everything you've done has just been nuts, but it's been getting better and better and better. I'm so excited to see what you do with this one because I'm like, I have a feeling this one is going to be, this is going to kind of eclipse any of the past campaigns you've ever done. I get a little feeling in my gut.

I'm so excited for it. It's like, as I'm writing the book, all I can think about is how we're going to sell the book. Like, this is going to be so much fun. Yeah. Oh, dude, that's awesome. That's awesome. So fun.

But what's crazy is I'm sitting there at that lunch with the VC and I'm telling this stuff and he doesn't understand the first time that I explained three or four times. And finally, I remember he said something really profound. He said, if what you're telling me is true, this will change business forever. I was like, that's the whole thing. Like any other company that's grown, like a software company has grown to the size we have, all of them have taken on money. I can't find any that didn't. Maybe a couple. But for most of them part they all took on money to to to do to grow and i was like instead of bringing on cash to to grow like you just use a funnel and it finances itself the whole

way and so i think that's a big strategic thing is like we create these like we we drink our own kool-aid like i i literally today was working my funnel team on our next funnel for next campaign to bring more customers in for free that we can then bring into ClickFunnels, you know. So I think that's another big piece is just understanding, like, you can grow a company without taking on cash. It's just understanding this funnel game where your customers finance the growth. And I think that's the best way to do it. So anyway. Well, I got to tell you what, you know, for me personally, you know, my experience in the VC world and, you know, the acquisition world and all of that, you know, back in the early days of online marketing, before you were still in college, before the first dot-com bubble burst, I'll just give you guys one example of one of the same things. We had people coming in trying to acquire stuff. I started a second pay-per-click search engine. While Google was still in college, I started the second pay-per-click search engine. one of my companies. And through some shady, you know, reverse merger, backend, crazy deal,

these guys basically bamboozled us out of everything. And it turned out that a lot of the guys who were involved in that ended up going to jail for stock fraud later. And that kind of thing, by the way, people don't understand this is common. So I mean, so not only, you know, are the VC guys who are like the legit VC guys, those guys are sharks too, but there's a layer underneath those guys who are like straight criminal sharks as well. So, I mean, you have to be extremely careful when you're swimming in that world. And this is why for me, I don't want to accept outside funding for every, for anything. I want to bootstrap everything. I want to surround myself around people who are as motivated as I am so that I can grow it on, you know, by pulling our own selves up by our own bootstraps.

And then we're going to own everything. We're going to get all the profit. And we don't have to worry about some VC jerk off telling us how to run the business when they don't really understand, you know. Do you want to tell me something cool? I just bought bootstrap.com and my next so cool uh i just bought bootstrap.com and my next book is gonna be called bootstrap.com so anyway i love it five times i'm like i'm so excited right now that's awesome that's all okay so after the the trilogy you're starting a whole new thing yeah man because the trilogy's all been like how-to books this one's not gonna be how-to book this is gonna be like the story of like it was crazy um you know click phones was

built remote like all of our teams remote so almost every conversation has been has happened on boxer so every quote every important conversation click phone so i'm getting all like download and transcribe right now so it's gonna be like this is actually what russell said in fact you could like listen to like the conversations anyway um, I'm I'm excited. That's going to be my next project starting in about a year from now. Beautiful. All right. Let me. So, man, I'm going to have to skip a couple of these. All right. So here's what I'm feeling good. So we can keep going. Don't worry. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Well, you're always super energetic, man. I say every time I talk to Russell, I get more energized. I mean, I'm generally pretty energetic guy, but I just vibe because Russell's got this just amazing.

He effervesces energy. All right. So, so what would you say are the three biggest barriers or bottlenecks for growth in businesses right now? In my, my specific business or just businesses as a whole? Well, either one you, you, you pick either one. Um,

um, interesting. So three biggest bottlenecks for growth. Um, I think what, this may be a little early, but, um,

I think one of the biggest things people are going to see right now, we've been in this amazing season where advertising has been easy. Like when I first got started online, like grateful for you because I don't know how you guys even figured out back in the day. Like we were building lists and there was no Facebook. There was like Google wasn't really there the way like, you know, and it's like I was like your audios on viral marketing. And like we were building these viral sites to acquire customers and email addresses. I remember sitting listening to the Farewell Package and you talking about all the crazy stuff you guys would do to the list. It got my mind thinking like that.

We had to get super creative. We had to get super creative. No one thinks like that anymore. What happened is Facebook came out. It's easy. Everyone's in business. It's been like that for the last decade. Business has been so, so simple. I don't think it's going to last that much longer um i

think either either some government regulation is going to happen or or they're just going to do what google did where they start shifting away from smaller brands and just you know kind of elbow us out and go after bigger companies and and i think that um in fact that's a big reason i wrote the traffic secrets book if when you guys Hopefully you guys all have a chance to read it when it comes out, but it's very much not tactical. Like, here's how to run a Facebook ad. Like, I don't show the Facebook editor once. Like, it's very much like a strategic book. Like, how do you start thinking differently?

Because when Zuckerberg comes, and we always joke, it was probably because I was writing the book right when Avengers Endgame came out, and Thanos, we just, the Thanos snap, and like half the world, like, you know, disappears. We always talk about Zuckerberg, exactly. We nicknamed it off as Zanos. I'm like, Zanos is going to snap his finger and half the entrepreneurs businesses will

disappear. And we're seeing, I had, I've had probably five or six people that are friends in the last week alone. Who's got Facebook ads shut down. And I don't like, it's just, it's,

it's going to be coming. And so like, I think the biggest thing is that people have had it really good and really easy because they've just been like, I, I, I'd run Facebook ads or I run Google ad or, you know, they're just doing the basics that are simple. It's going to get harder. And so I think it's time for all of us to start like, start resharping our marketing mind.

Like in the traffic secrets book, I have a whole chapter on the integration market. I'm like, I learned this from my mentor, Mark Joyner. Like you guys, you started learning this stuff. And like, you know, it's just all these different things that, that people haven't had to learn. I think that's you know i'm definitely looking at it and i'm again i i i keep giving you so much credit because so much of my mindset initially was was

based on your teachings but like you know i we spend so much effort right now focusing on list building because i know that it's going to get harder to build a list like right now um we average about um from clickfun phones.com site, we get about 1500 leads like opt-ins a day. And then for my other funnels, we get about three, three to 4,000 options a day. So we get almost 5,000 people a day opting in. And that's our focal points. Cause I'm like, I'm going to keep building these lists like crazy. Cause someday these other things might disappear or get harder or more expensive. And, and I'm going to have these lists and I, and I'll be able to weather the storm where a lot of people are not going to be able to, because they're not focusing

on list building, building relationships with those lists. They're just out there buying Facebook ads because it's easy. And I think that's the, one of the biggest things that I'm fearful for. I mean, myself, I'm like doubling down on, I think other people need to as well. I want to interject really quick here about something. Cause it's, it's funny you bring this up because this is something I've been talking about a lot. So I've been doing a lot more public speaking lately. And one of the things that I've been talking about is exactly this. And I want to show everybody a little bit of an interesting phenomenon. And Russell, I think you'll appreciate this. So if you guys remember Chris Anderson writing the book about the long tail, right? And if you look at the, if this is

the rank of, or the, or sorry, the, the, the unit numbers sold of any particular like let's say imagine you take amazon's entire marketplace right this is the number of units sold and this is the rank right so the number one selling book is going to outsell the number two selling book by an order of magnitude at least right so it's like the inverse of an exponential growth curve. So Chris Anderson's whole theory about the long tail was that because automation is making everything so easy was that, yeah, you know, traditionally people used to focus all their energy in here because this is where all the money was. But now because of all, you know, the improvements we have in supply chain technology and deliveries, there's so much money in the long

tail of the graph. And if you can have an inventory of billions and billions and billions of units, that represents enormous economic potential. But here's what happened. The exact opposite of what Chris Anderson predicted is the reality of what happened. See, Facebook, YouTube, all of these platforms, they built themselves on our backs. We were the ones that created all of the content so that these guys could be so big. And now we're the eyeballs. But guess who they care about now? If you take this out and you take the same graph and you speak in terms of ad spending, they only care about this portion of the graph.

Why? While this represents a lot of economic potential, it also represents an enormous pain in the ass for the company to manage. They hate the customers. They hate the customers. And this is why when you're on Facebook and we're on YouTube now, your ads are getting shut down algorithmically, or they're getting shut down by some, you know, low level employee that doesn't really understand what's going on.

And they don't give you any explanation. And I've had, Russell, you probably heard so many stories like this. People wake up in the morning and then they have this business. It's going great guns and they're like – they're here in terms of ad spend, you don't get their attention. They're not going to explain to you why they shut you down. And this is why we started this thing called integration marketing society. So you, you know, talked about integration marketing. So we're building integration marketing society so people can band together and, you know, buttress ourselves against the threat of this. That's what that whole thing is all about.

So I want to have another conversation with you about that another time because I think that there's a lot of potential synergy there. I'm glad you're seeing that same thing. So what would you say is the number two and three bottlenecks now then? Hey, funnel hackers, let me paint you a picture. You're running a business. Your funnel's finally converting like crazy and suddenly it hits you. You need to hire someone like yesterday. Maybe it's a copywriter to help you crank out more sales pages or a designer to refresh your landing pages or someone to do customer support to help you to handle your growing audience. The problem is you're swamped and you don't have weeks to shift through resumes.

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like we're seeing stuff happening and then like the thing that catches our attention like it interrupts right and it used to be back you know when we first got started like you'd figure out a pattern interrupt and that thing would last for, for months or years before people kind of caught on and figured it out. And now it's tough because like we come out with a new pattern interrupt and post on Instagram. And within like 15 minutes, there's 800 other people doing the exact same post. They just, they see it work for us. It must work for me. Right. And start doing it. And it's like, it's interesting because it's so easy to clone and to copy and things like that. And, um, and so I think for people who are truly trying to like to grow companies and

like, and serve at a different level and like be creatives, like being creative is harder. And I think that, um, it takes, I don't know. I don't know what exactly how to phrase it.

Right. But it's like, I think that, um, the me too stuff can get worse and worse. Cause some people copying, right? Like,

yeah, we're going to get better at the creation and better at creative and better at like figuring out how to break the pattern and break the pattern and, and, and stay in front of it all the time because it just, it's, it's crazy how fast things get knocked off. Like, like we, we have an ad or we have a campaign or something that's working and, and it's, it's crazy. In fact, I had this conversation with Dean Graciosi who's become a dear friend and Dean ran infomercials for a

year. And he said that he would record a show and infomercial and it would, the lifestyle was like 18 months, every 18 months he had to record a new show. Then he came on the internet and he's like, he's like, uh, I started doing the, my, my ads and I would launch them on, you know, on Facebook or Instagram. He's like, they'd be killing it for a day and a half, two days and it was gone. He's like, what? And like, they couldn't figure it out. And he basically came back and stopped testing much stuff. He said, basically he figured out, he's like, he has to create tons of creative. And I said, well, how much? Like one ad a week, two ads a week. He's like, no, no, no. He's like, I carry my phone everywhere I go. Like two to three ads a day

minimum. He's walking around like with his book, like here's an ad here. And he walks to his daughter's soccer game. He's doing an ad there. And then he's like in the elevators, you're not there. And like just tons and tons and tons and tons of creative and i figure out like break the pattern how to like how to grab people's attention and so it's like those people aren't willing to like if you don't love your thing enough to like i gotta create a lot more creative it's gonna be it's gonna be hard because people just knocking you off you know i mean so um i think that's a big part for us you know we used to spend so much time, I don't know, like slow, like being slow on creating ads and stuff.

Now it's like, it's more like, how do we stay in front of that curve and get excited where, where the art isn't in like creating the next product or the next campaign or the next funnel, the, the art becomes like, what's a new way I can sell the thing I already have.

And it's, it's that big shift. In fact, in our company, I kind of like building funnels. I'm a little obsessed with it and so for a long time for four months um you know the way we kept growing is i create a new funnel and create a new funnel and like and and the tough thing is it takes i don't know it's just

it's just hard to keep doing that because then every time you create a funnel you create the new ads and it's it's just it's a lot more work and effort um whereas now it's like we we shifted our focus tonight less funnels but more creative for every funnel and it's it's just it's a lot more work and effort um whereas now it's like we shifted our focus tonight less funnels but more creative for every funnel and it's it's just a different mindset shift and so i don't know that it's not super clear the way it came out but it's one of the big problems i'm seeing that that we're having is ad fatigue it burns out super fast if you're not in front of just like creation always trying to figure out different ways to break the pattern you're gonna get left behind really really quickly because the copycats are so many of now that even if you are copying the good pattern, like the diminishing return hits so fast, you know? Well, the problem is, is people also don't know

how to copy, right? For me, there's like three levels of copying, you know, one is straight out plagiarism, right? And then the next one is, is people take your surface stuff and they change a few words and then they pop that up, Right. You know, which to me is, is, is just as dumb and is just as shady. Right. Because first of all, changing a couple of words,

it doesn't make sense when you're dealing with a completely different product. Right. You know, there are even a lot of documents. It's so many different things are, are, are different.

Right. I mean, this is where you really got to get into, to the real understanding of, you know, when you're is where you really got to get into the real understanding of, you know, when you're funnel hacking something or you're modeling something, what you have to understand is the psychological structure behind it. And this is what Breakthrough Advertising, the classic Eugene Schwartz book that everybody should be reading. I mean, I had to read that probably about five times before it finally sunk in. Holy crap. I didn't really understand it at first.

I was like, oh, okay, it's interesting. But then when it finally clicked and his whole idea, I mean, it's basically, you know, based on the notion that you've got to analyze, you know, how to connect your product with the market forces that already exist. And every product in every market is going to have a different way of connecting that. And you can't copy that from exist. And every product in every market is going to have a different way of connecting that. And you can't copy that from someone. The only way to get that correctly, to have a real big legitimate breakthrough in the business is through the process of analysis, right? And this, that's the core idea of, I mean, there's so many different nuggets of wisdom

for breakthrough advertising, but that's the core thing that people had better get good at. Because I tell you what, if they don't, here's what's going to happen. It's going to become like the quants in the trading game, right? You know, the quants are like, hey, let's see who can shave a quarter of a millisecond off, you know, the trading time on the stock market, right? Well, if the marketing world becomes like that, I mean, good luck to you, unless you're the guy with the best quants. The only other way to compete then is to train your creative mind to come up with creative answers. And as you remember from the farewell package, there are so many ways to do that. There are so many out-of-the-box ways. You don't have to do things the same way everyone else is doing, but everybody's getting lazy now because they see the quick way to, to, to get it done. But I think what's going to happen to those people is going to happen. It's going to be what happened to the people early on in the early internet era. You know, when the guys got like the big quick SEO money, cause remember I was telling you, Hey man,

don't, don't do the ad set. Don, man, don't do the AdSense. Don't go too far down that AdSense rabbit hole. Build your list, right? Remember all those guys who were killing it with AdSense? And then boom, you know, Thanos snapped his fingers and then all of their money was gone, right? That's going to happen to everybody who doesn't build their creative muscle. 100%. Hey, everybody.

This is Russell again. And really quick, I wanted to invite you to join arguably the best thing that we've ever put out inside the ClickFunnels community. And it is a challenge we call the One Funnel Away Challenge. Everyone in their business, in their life, they're one funnel away from something. Some of you guys are one funnel away from quitting your job. Some of you guys are one funnel away from getting more impact. Some of you guys are one funnel away from getting more impact. Some of you guys are a funnel away from growing your company to the next level. And so we created this challenge to help you to create and launch your first or your next funnel.

No matter where you are in your business, this challenge is going to help you. It's going to help you understand the strategy, help you understand the tactics, help you understand all the things you need to be successful with your funnel. So what I recommend you do right now is stop everything, pause this audio, go online, and go to OneFunnelAway.com. That's OneFunnelAway.com and join the next challenge. There's a challenge starting in the next few days, so go get started right now. OneFunnelAway.com.