The Russell Brunson Show - Interview With My Original Mentor - Part 4 of 4

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

How do you handle the haters? When you're the face and voice of your company there's going to come a time when someone's going to talk trash about you. But when you put yourself out there, whether it's on video, a podcast, a blog, a webinar, social media, there's going to come a time when it happens to you. I came to a place where I started to think differently about the bashing and untruths. Want to know how to deal with the "haters?" Want to know how to turn the dirt into a castle? Then don't miss the 4th and FINAL part of my interview with my first mentor Mark Joyner. Transcript - https://marketingsecrets.com/blog/340-interview-with-my-original-mentor-part-4-of-4 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Travel moves us. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today, you're in store. This is part four of the interview from the Mark Joyner Show. And I hope you've enjoyed this series so far. I had so much fun sharing this interview with Mark, and I hope, you get a ton of value and benefit out of as well. Um, with that

said, I'm going to no further ado. We'll clear up the theme song and we come back. I have a chance to listen to the exciting conclusion of my interview on the Mark Joyner show. So the big question is this, how are entrepreneurs like us, who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, who are spending money from our own pockets, how do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets.

And now it's funny for me because I feel like now the team's been doing good. Now the next phase is just crossing the chasm. So I've been having my core team all read this right now. We're all geeking out on it because it's fascinating to start learning. I pulled it. If you just Google crossing the chasm graph, you'll see a graph of the five phases, the innovators, the early adopters, and there's this big chasm. And on the other side is the early majority. And that's where the majority of business, that's where you go from 100 millions to billions is getting the early majority. But there's a chasm because you have to shift everything. It's hard for me because it's like the art that we use to get the, the innovators and early adopters like repels the people on the other side of

the chasm. It's like the funnels don't work over there. The messaging doesn't work over there. How we structure, like it's, and it's like, Oh, do we really want to do that?

That thing? But it's like, yeah, like that's the next phase. Otherwise we're just going to hang out where we're at forever. Right. And you know, there's, we always say goods, the enemy to great, right. We're doing good. Like, and I want to, oh yeah, there's, there's perfect example of the

graph right there. Yes. The big scary. Yeah. This is the big scary chasm. Yes. Um, and so for us, like that's the next stage, like the early majority, if you look at, look at my business, right? Like the innovators were like the people, the internet marketers, ownership funnels, like they were the first group next to early adopters. These for me are like the people, the internet marketers, the ownership funnels, like they were the first group. Next were early adopters. These for me are like the influencers, the, the creators, the, the, the experts, like, um, those are the next phase where they were like, they're the people that are already like, they're, they're, they're creating stuff. And we're saying, here's how to get your creative message out. And so they've been really easy to become early adopters, but the early majority are the business owners. It's the chiropractors, the dentists, the LASIK surgeon,

that's where the majority of existing businesses need funnels. How do we make this mainstream? How do we get to that next tier? There's some that's bled into that, but for us to make that strategic move, it's hard because the dentist doesn't build their own funnels. The person wrote the book or does the course, whatever, typically they're still the CEO and the marketer.

And so they're loving this stuff because they'll spend the time to learn the strategy, do the thing. Over here, they're a dentist who wants more dental clients, right? Or they're the restaurant who want, like, they're not marketers. They're not going to learn marketing. They just want the tool. It's like we have to restructure so much of how the software alone needs to be rebuilt differently to be able to handle that next phase. The marketing, it's literally like it's a big rebuild. So there's fear.

There's excitement. There's kind of that thing. And we're testing a lot of things on a small scale to kind of figure out pieces of it. But that's the next phase for us. That's beautiful. Dude, that was a fantastic example or a fantastic answer. I don't think you could give a more concise, better answer than that because you don't know. You don't know. It is a big, scary chasm and you guys are about to cross it. But you have some clues though. Just going back to good old-fashioned Eugene Schwartz and looking at the tools that he gave us for, you know, changing the messaging,

I think a lot of your answers are going to be found there. Listen, do you have a couple minutes for a few questions? We've got tons of them, but I know we've been going a little while. All right. So a lady here named Rise of Truth, she says, Dan Gable coached at my alma of wrestling. He's a legend. Right. And I took a snapshot, because I'm going to go look up the letter now. That's actually really cool. Yeah, I'm kind of curious about that, too.

Well, it's funny. It reminds me of how, you know, when Edison was a very young man, his school wrote him, his mother, a letter saying, hey, you know, your son is basically not teachable. You know, he's not smart enough to be in school. But then she said, oh, I got a letter from school. And what I read to them was that you're too smart to be in school. So you have to be homeschooled. And then later on in life, after he had achieved all of this, he saw that original letter. And it just it just, you know, ripped him to shreds, he realized how much his mom sacrificed and how much her belief in him changed his own perception of himself. And that's such a profound lesson, man, because if we can all just change our belief in ourselves a little bit, we're all capable of so much more than we're taught to believe. And while, you know, while we're opiating ourselves with all this crap on TV and we're all involved in all of our different, you know, distractions, you know,

these things are also subtly weakening us and programming us with the message that, hey, there's this wonderful life that other people are watching or that are living on the other side of the screen, but that's not for you. You're meant to be in this little box where you're the observer of everything on the screen while you stuff your face with Haagen-Dazs and, and take more fentanyl, you know, I mean, that's, that's, that's literally what's happening to a lot of society right now. And I think what we've got to do to kind of turn society around before it destroys itself is to get people to understand that we're all capable of so much more than we've been taught that we're capable of. And the more people we can reach with that message,

I think the better hope humanity has. Kenneth Kern San you had a really interesting question. He was talking about basically, I'm not going to phrase it the way he did. He phrased it in kind of a slightly rude way. No offense, Kenneth, but I don't know what you meant by the way you phrased it. But the question you asked at the end was very important. But, you know, he's talking about how you're getting out there all the time. You don't see this on the queue here. This is from another thread I started where I, I, a couple of days ago, I asked people to just say, Hey, tell me, you know, what your questions are for Russell. And basically his question was with you being out there so much and being so deal with online haters? Oh man. Um, man, um, when I first got started back about time I met

you initially, like, um, you know, that's the first time I started getting hate. So it's been man, whatever, 15, 16 years ago. And that when I first started and it was really hard back then, like it, man, I always see something and it would put me out for three or four days. I said, they're just depressed or upset or whatever. And it was really, really hard. And I remember a couple of things, a couple of things that helped me. One thing I remember Dan Kennedy said, if you haven't offended someone by doing each day and you're not marketing hard enough, it's weird to release me. I'm like, Oh, like not that I've,

I don't know if I really believe that, but like it gave me a little permission. And the more I've, the more I've seen the, the hate, um, the more, the more I rise, it's, it's people that they're happy with themselves. Um, I try not to look at it because it does, like if I read something, it'll, it'll mess me up for a while. Um, but for the most part, when people like, especially on ads, I mean, you get beat up in the ads, you get, you know, there's just the more you're visible, the more stuff happens. The hard thing for me is when there's people that, um, that you, that you've helped or you love or you respect or whatever.

And that doesn't happen often, but when those are the ones that are, that are, that are more brutal, you know what I mean? We were just like, ah, like I've had a couple people that I've spent a lot of time developing and helping success. And then they're, they seem like sometimes they're the ones that come back the hardest. And you're just like, seriously? Yeah. It's such a way to help them for free, right? You know? Yeah.

Those ones are the most, for the most part, people that are just posting stuff. Like, I think it's funny at this point. It doesn't bother me at all. But I know my wife just started her first podcast, which is so far out of her comfort zone she's very you know keeps herself and so she's you know she's getting out people commenting and things are happening it's like first time she's and i'm remembering i'm like i forget how hard that can be in fact it's interesting i did um i think i oh yeah we talked earlier i have a podcast the book mormon podcast and it's funny because i tell people all the time like go publish go publish but i started publishing that and like i had all sorts of things

it's like i I still do. Like, I don't publish that nearly as much as I want to because like, I get the fear again because it's like, I don't know, like on the marketing side, like I can take it. Like, go for it. Like, take your best shot. But like, and other things that are,

you know, as comfortable as talking about or things you really hold sacred or dear or whatever, it's a little harder. But when all of a sudden done, I think that, um, that God's created these platforms for us to share. And if we're not willing to share, you know, then he'll, he'll give the, he'll give the, the, um, the ability of the gifts, the ideas, whatever to other people. And so I think it's just, um, you know, we've all been

entrusted a lot. So it's just like, be willing to share it even if, you know, even if you get beat up a little bit along the way. So anyway, that's right. Well, yeah. Oh dude. Well, you know, I have many, many short stories along those lines. That's something I've had to learn, you know, the hard way, but you, you have to, you have to give up and you have to trust a little bit. I mean, you know, having so many things, you know, I, I, I took it very personally, you know, along the way when a lot of people that I helped even like straight ripped stuff off, you know, or like, you know, even like turned around and did, you know,

nasty moves behind my back and stuff like that. And then I was kind of like, you know what, well, here's the thing. I can look at this through another lens. I can say from, for whatever reason, I've been gifted with the ability to, you know, to, to get these ideas and to be a conduit for these ideas. And I'm, I'm grateful that that conduit is still open, you know? And I think that if I keep that channel open and keep giving it, it's going to keep coming. And what I need to focus on is the infinite abundance of that source, of that inspiration, rather than like, oh, man, you know,

if I had patented the tracking pixel, you know, I'd, you know, like, I mean, this is the things people come up to me. They're like, Mark, how come you didn't patent e-books or the tracking pixel? Like, doesn't that make you so mad? And I'm like, not really, because think about it, right? Like, let's say I patented the tracking pixel, right? They would have probably came up with some other very similar technology, called it something else. Now everybody still, even though it's a JS file, they still call them tracking pixels. And I get to be known forever more as the inventor of the tracking pixel.

So, I mean, maybe it wouldn't have worked out the same way had I patented it. Maybe it would have gone a totally different way. Maybe it was actually the best possible way for things to turn out for me, you know? So I'm learning how to change my orientation about that. But I want to ask you something about this. Do you ever give online haters a little sass? Because I've experimented with this a bit over the last couple of years. I got to say normally for a while, I was just like, all right, just be kind to everybody. But then I was like, you know what, man, some of these people

need a little bit of a slap back every now and then. And I started getting a little bit more sassy over the last couple of years. And, uh, how about you? Have you, have you experimented with that? Oh, you know, it's funny because I would say since ClickFunnels has come out, there's been probably three or four times where I just like – you just snap and your like thumbs are flying on your phone. You're like, ah, and you post it. And I can honestly say every time I've done that, I've regretted it. Okay. And it's now – I look at this with click phones as well. Like it's not just me.

Like everything I say is an extension of my partner Todd and my other partners and my employees. So like I was – especially there's this one dude. I'm not going to say his name. Somebody who I had a lot of respect for. We've never had any like – it's just weird. Like we've never communicated and I thought we were i mean we've created a little bit i thought we were i assume we were friends we're like peers and he starts going off on his on his own personal wall about like like aggressively like tearing me down like yeah so confusing and like yeah yeah anyway so i i

i said some things i probably shouldn't have uh so i it's tough especially like the wrestler me because like man if you say it to my face we are going like like you know i like please come yeah it's not posted publicly for everyone to see the fight but like we can have that fight right here anytime because you rip their wings off their torso i know it's it's so yeah it's it's frustrating but you know and all said and done it's just like it's hard i'll tell you the distinction i have on this right so i i if i put if i reply out of anger i always regret it but sometimes if i come back with like just a really like a you know an idgaf you know attitude zinger that just like puts them in their place it's that that one i'm

like nah i don't regret that because you totally had it coming and they shut up right and then it teaches them like okay man if you get back yeah i mean whatever people think i know i'm going to say something very divisive here and i'm not going to get into politics or anything but whatever people think about trump whether they hate him or love him and it seems to be a completely divisive thing like you know he's not there nobody's like in the middle of i think i'm like the only guy on the planet who's like i don't really have an opinion i i can look i can look at him through a million different lenses you know what i mean there's so many ways to look at what he does. Right. But one thing that you have to recognize about the guy is that when somebody punches him, he punches

back hard. Right. And fast. Yeah. And it makes people hesitate. They're like, I don't know if I can tangle with this dude right so so it's an interest it's an interesting thing to observe i don't know if there's any one right way all right we've been going a while i'm gonna go ahead go your facebook comments because you always post these these questions that are like you can tell you're like you're like stirring the pot a little bit like let's just see what both sides are gonna say to this question yeah i was really comment because i was like i i don't know if I have a strong opinion one way or the other to defend anything, but I love reading. Same.

Same. Well, I see – and by the way, I'll just say people misunderstand. Like they think I'm doing this for engagement bait. It's like, dude, if I was trying to game Facebook for marketing, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing on Facebook. I mean I see what I do is more or less of a public service. I feel like what I'm doing out there is kind of like trying to teach people like, man, stop being so rigid about your view of reality, because you don't know, man, you don't know. And I'm trying to get people to like be okay with disagreeing with other people.

And I mean, that's been sort of like my whole mission on social media is to, to create an environment where people can be like, Hey, let's see if we can like actually look at things dispassionately and, and look at them through somebody else's eyes. And, you know, and, and maybe say to ourselves, you know what, I see this completely differently from that other guy, but, but I don't have to hate this dude. You know, like he sees it differently from me. We can, we can still get along. This has been a quixotic battle for me. I don't, I don't, I don't think I've succeeded in this mission. I don't know how much longer it's going to last. I think I'm probably going to change up my, my approach on it. Hey, listen, let me, let me end

on one last question. I don't know if this is one you're going to want to ask, but it's from a mutual friend of ours. You remember Brad Callen, yeah? I love Brad. I love Brad too, man. He is a great dude. And he asked a question that I don't know if you're going to want to answer because it's some very personal questions about numbers. Okay.

Okay. All right. So he says, posted this earlier and also mentioned directly to him but having uh him give you some tangible numbers on click funnels things like total number of free trial users and by the way i don't think i would answer this question if i were russell okay if somebody were to ask me this about simpleology i don't think i would answer i don't think i would answer so i'm very think I would answer. So I'm very – and, guys, if Russell refuses to answer, do not fault him because he is under no obligation to answer this question to anybody.

Especially Brad. Just kidding. Yeah, especially Brad. We love Brad. Brad is an awesome dude. All right, so things like total number of trial users they get per day, what percentage of those stick and are billed at least once, what the average member length is, what the churn rate is, what the refund rate is. That would really help those of us building software businesses to know what numbers we need to hit monthly to reach ClickFunnels-level revenues and valuation.

Assuming Russell wouldn't know exact numbers off the top of his head, but maybe some broad guesses, the more actual data of any sort of numbers, metrics he can give would be great for those that have been at this for a while and also help broaden the mindset and goal setting on what's possible. And then he said, P.S., anything not covered in his books would also be ideal. I'll answer the P.S. Wait for the two sequels coming out here pretty soon. I'll try to add. I mean, I don't know the numbers off my head. I'm not a big data guy. I'm more the creative side.

So my partners can answer a lot of it better than me. But I'll say some stuff I think will be helpful and motivating for people. Because I remember when we launched ClickFunnels, the event I told you at the very beginning where I did the first presentation, I was like, oh my gosh, we got the message right. Um, it was kind of a funny event because they had a, they had a, you could buy a booth and there was like, it was a hallway, like half the size of the room I'm in right now. And, um, there were only four people who bought booths. ClickFunnels had our very first booth ever. And then Leadpages had a booth and two other people.

And like this side of the hall was Lead pages. This side was click funnels. We were almost touching. And like, we were like, that was our big competitor when we first got started. And I remember I was just like, it was really funny because our banner ad said, can your landing page software do this? They had a picture of a funnel. And then right there, there was like landing page software. Anyway, it was really funny.

But at that event, I remember Clay Collins, who I don't know if he still owns lead pages or not, but at the time he owned it, um, I think he still anyway, but he, he told Mike Phil same, I think, I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think he said like, we get, there's like 200 or maybe 300 signups a day that were happening. I remember he told me that and I was like, there's no way that's possible. I remember thinking that and I sat home, I sat home thinking forever, like how do you get two or 300 signs a day consistently every single day? And I just, that number drove me crazy. But then it became like my KPI, like, okay, how many do we get a

day? Like I need to know. And it was like three. And then it was like, you know, five. But because anything you track, it starts to grow. And so we kept looking at looking at it. And so for me, that became the number to look at because I was like, couldn't figure out how he was doing it. And so I can give you some, again, basically right now we get about 1500 people a day. They go to click phones.com and start the trial, which is step one, which basically pick a name and a username. And then from that step two is where they put in a credit card and about half of those were putting their credit cards. So we're getting, uh, seven, 800 paid or not paid, but credit card trials a day. They're coming to the, into the, like, or not paid, but credit card trials a day.

They're coming to the, into the, into the platform. Some days are higher. Some days we get a thousand, some days it's, you know, five or 600,

but, but pretty consistently it's, it's around 1500 free leads a day. And then again, half a little more than half actually finished credit card. And that's about all the numbers I really know off the top of my head. I know that, you know,

we, we are, it's a, it's interesting at this point in the game, like that, that those people come, whether we're buying a lot of ads or not, the game now on our side is the churn stuff. Cause every percentage of churn, like we dropped churn right now by 1%. That's an extra $20 million a year revenue to the bottom line by 1%. And so, and so it's like, that's the game right now. It's like, how do we simplify the software?

How do we change the lead flow? How do do we how do we pre-frame it better like there's so many things that it's it's a it's a fun game and that number is always fluctuating and and we're always like chopping it down by like a fourth of a point and half but you know and so i don't know what it is right now off top my head but i do know like that's the number right that matters more right now the new leads because like i said a a half percent to 1%, it changes. Like it's, it's a big deal. Hey, funnel hackers, let me paint you a picture. You're running a business.

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And by the way, so to wrap this up, I just want to tell Brad, the answer Russell just gave you is actually better than specific numbers that he could have given you. Why? Because he's teaching you the secret formula for what to look at, right? It doesn't matter how your numbers stack up to some other company. What matters is the improvements that you make to your numbers right now. That's the only thing that really, really matters. And it's, you know, sometimes, you know, competition is a good way to motivate yourself, but it's not the best way to improve yourself because if you're looking at the other guy, you're not watching your own lane, right?

You need to be watching your own lane. You need to be improving your game. Yeah, Check out the other guy's numbers from time to time to kind of see how you're doing, but really 99% of your focus needs to be on how do I improve me? How do I improve, you know, what's going on inside my company? And usually by the way, how to improve what's going on inside and your company comes down to improving what's going on inside you. All right, listen, Russell, I know I've been keeping you up late and I know you've got kids to take care of and you've got a company to go back to tomorrow and it's getting late

and we are way past your bedtime here. I want to encourage everyone, go to simpleology.com forward slash ClickFunnels free. At the very least, check out the free trial funnel that they have there because Russell has honed that through thousands upon thousands of split tests now. And you guys will see their marketing structure, how they're doing that, how they're retargeting it, how they get you guys back on email, all of that. And also the software itself is absolutely amazing. And I want to encourage everybody as well. If you enjoyed this tonight, if you appreciate the fact that Russell here spent almost two hours now giving us some pretty amazing inside information on a business that is actually right about to cross that chasm and start to reach that billion-dollar mark. And I can almost guarantee you guys they're going to make it knowing Russell and knowing how they're doing. If you appreciate what he has delivered tonight, I want you guys to share this far and wide with as many people as possible.

If you think this has helped you, let's get this message out to more people. And any comments you guys can put underneath all of this to say thank you to Russell as well. I'm sure he would be very, very appreciative to get that. No matter how well we do, we always want to be appreciated for our contributions. And Russell, I appreciate you very, very much, man. You, man, I'm so proud of what you've done and you have become an inspiration for me. You make me want to be a better person and you have set a higher bar. And at 51 years of age now, I feel invigorated watching you being so successful. You know, and I'm now, you know, inspired to take my company, you know, to a higher level as well because of what I see you doing.

So thank you for that, man. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. I had a really good time. I haven't had a chance to do some of this for a long time. I mean, we're always in the thick of it. And, you know, we did this late night, so it would work for me and I appreciate you letting me do that. But, you know, I was going to kind of wrap with just saying, it's interesting, like in your life, there's, you know, your life's a timeline from you're born and then over here you die. And there's different people that, that as you're on this journey that like, that like shift your direction a little bit and, you know, a little shift in direction can be a huge different outcome in different spots. And I'm just honestly so grateful for you, man. I started this journey 17, 18 years ago and I was floundering and trying to figure things out. Like you were the guy who, who literally grabbed me and shifted my direction and, and completely transformed the, the, the trajectory and the future of my life.

And anyway, I'll always be grateful for you for that. And, um, anyway, so just want to let you know that. And, and, uh, and, uh, just grateful that you put in as much time as you have, you know, I think, um, again, I always talk about with my own tribe, but you know, I, I feel like business is a calling from God and that we've been called to serve a group of customers. And if we do it right, we changed their, we changed their lives and, and you definitely changed my life. And so thank you for hearing the call and putting forth the effort and the time. And I know from experience, it's not easy.

It's not painful. It's way easier to go sedate and go watch TV and do whatever. And through those times, I'm sure were hard for you at the beginning of the internet. Before Facebook, you were out there killing yourself and learning this stuff and trailblazing for people like me so that we could get on your shoulders on your shoulders and learn from you and, and, uh, and, and set our own path. So, uh, always be super grateful eternally for you. So thanks for all you, all you've done for my life. Thank you, man. I'm humbled. All right, everybody, you guys have a beautiful night. I enjoyed this immensely and Russell hope to talk. I will see you actually very soon. Oh, that's going to be awesome. That's going to be awesome.

That's going to be awesome. I'm so excited. I appreciate you coming. See you in Boise, brother. See you, everybody. Hey, everybody. This is Russell again. And really quick, I wanted to invite you to join arguably the best thing that we've ever put out inside the ClickFunnels community.

And it is a challenge we call the One Funnel Away Challenge. You know, everyone in their business, in their life, they're one funnel away from something. Some of you guys are one funnel away from quitting your job. Some of you guys are one funnel away from getting more impact. Some of you guys are a funnel away from growing your company to the next level. And so we created this challenge to help you to create and launch your first or your next funnel. No matter where you are in your business, this challenge is going to help you understand

the strategy, help you understand the tactics, help you understand all the things you need to be successful with your funnel. No matter where you are in your business, this challenge is going to help you understand the strategy, help you understand the tactics, help you understand all the things you need to be successful with your funnel. So what I recommend you do right now is stop everything, pause this audio, go online and go to OneFunnelAway.com. That's OneFunnelAway.com and join the next challenge. There's a challenge starting in the next few days, so go get started right now. OneFunnelAway.com.