The Russell Brunson Show - The Atlas Shrugged Interview - Part 1 of 5

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

Welcome to the first episode in a special 5 part series. Over the course of these next 5 episodes, you’ll get to hear an interview between Russell Brunson and Josh Forti about the book “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. But this interview is much more than just them talking about the book, they are actually discussing business, religion, and politics (a subject Russell doesn’t talk about often) as they pertain to the concepts in the book. In this first section, you’ll get to hear the introduction and the basis for how the entire conversation will flow. The first main topic of the book, and the main concept for this episode is greed. Is it bad? Can it be good? Are we born with it? Can we change? So listen in to part one of this unique interview and start reading “Atlas Shrugged” (just read it, the movies aren’t great), so you can be ready for part 2! Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. And right now, I have a treat for you. Over the next five episodes, I'm going to be taking you in behind the scenes of an interview that I did with Josh Forti about the book, Atlas Shrugged. And some of you guys have read Atlas Shrugged, some of you haven't. Some of you know the premise, some of you don't. And I want to preface this by saying I do not believe in everything taught in the Atlas Shrugged book. I love a lot of it. It talks about producers versus consumers, the looters and the takers versus those in society who are the creators. Right? And there's a lot of things I strongly align with. There's also things that I don't strongly align with. And so I love the book, one of my favorites I've ever read. And so that's the first thing. Number two is, as I finished the book, I remember Josh Forti, who's one of our funnel hackers, he wanted to do the interview with me and I was just like, "I don't have time for interviews." And we're getting closer and closer to the election, we talked on Facebook. We were posting some comments and I was like, "You know what? The interview that I would actually love to do would be about Atlas Shrugged, looking at the whole political thing as it's happening right now and the elections and everything, through the lens of Atlas Shrugged. That'd actually be fascinating for me," because I don't typically, as you know, talk about politics. Right? I do talk about religion, but I don't talk about politics. That's not something I typically go into, but I thought it'd be interesting to look at politics from the lens of Atlas Shrugged. And so in this interview series, it's a lot of fun. We talk about producers versus consumers. We talk about the left and the right. We talk about some political things. Now Josh, just so you know ahead of time, he's very pro-Trump, very much on that side of the discussions during this interview. And this interview, just so you know, took place before the elections. As of right now, I'm still not sure who won. You guys probably will know by the time you're listening to this, but as of when I'm recording this, we don't know, but he definitely leans on the Trump side. I don't really share much of my political beliefs, but you'll get kind of what I believe and why I believe it through the lens of Atlas Shrugged over this interview series. So I hope you enjoy it. It was a lot of fun to do, a lot of great feedback and comments. And again, we talk about stuff I don't typically talk about ever. So this may be a one-time shot to hear inside my mind when it comes to politics, religion, and all through the lens of Atlas Shrugged, the book. So with that said, I want to introduce you guys to the first part of this five-part interview series with me and Josh Forti, talking about Atlas Shrugged. Russell Brunson: Are we live? Josh Forti: We are live. Russell: What's up, everybody? Josh: Oh, my word, with the incredibly ... I don't know if long-waited. It hasn't really been that long. Two months ago. So much expected podcast with Mr. Russell Brunson, himself. How are you doing, dude? Russell: I'm doing amazing, man. Thanks for flying all the way to Boise just for this conversation. Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Dude, this is probably the conversation I'm looking forward to most, certainly in my life thus far, when it comes to business and philosophy and everything like that. Russell: No pressure at all. Josh: Well, it's funny. Your wife said, "Oh, thanks so much for coming out." I was like, "Yeah, it's certainly ... Yeah, because it's inconvenience to me to fly all the way out here." I will say, this is my first ever in-person interview like this. Russell: Oh, really? Josh: Yeah. Russell: We got the microphones set up. Josh: I know. We have- Russell: He’s a professional. I've never done this before. Josh: Literally, we have a soundboard down here. We've got Russell's mic. Can you guys hear us all right? By the way, guys, for all of you listening on audio, we apologize because we're going to answer some comments in the Facebook feed here because we've got everybody down here. By the way, you can see all the comments down here. Russell: What's up, everyone? Josh: All right, guys. If you are live, comment down below. Let us know where you're tuning in from. Let us know if you know Russell or if you know me or if you know both of us or what you're most looking forward to. And Russell, I'm going to be honest with you. We're just going to be super chill. Guys, we have a live audience back here. We've got Dave. Dave's over there. We've got Jake and Nick. Russell: What's up, Dave? Josh: Where'd Jake go? Russell: Jake's working. Josh: Oh, there we go. Jake's working late over there. Russell: Jake, by the way, designed these amazing shirts for this- Josh: Yeah, check us out. Russell: This is my Rearden Steel shirt. This is my Who Is John Galt shirt. Josh: Isn't this great? Okay, but I feel like the back- Russell: Yeah the back I’ll read what it says. It says, "I started my life with a single absolute, that the world was mine to shape and the image of my highest values never to be given to a lesser standard, no matter how long or hard the struggle." So do you guys like these shirts? These are custom made for tonight. And you guys may have a chance to get one of these, but not yet. No, not yet. Josh: Not yet. Russell: We'll let you know when the ability ... If you guys ... Josh: Oh, man. Oh, man. Russell: Anyway, it's going to be fun, but these are custom ... We literally made these today. We needed some sweet shirts…for the show. Josh: Okay, Will says he got your text. Did you send my text to everybody? Russell: Yeah. Josh: Russell on top of it. I sent out a ManyChat, Russell sent out a text. All right, guys. Let's lay some ground rules here. So the quick backstory behind this ... And it's going to be weird. You've got to look in the camera here. Quick backstory behind this is I make a post on Facebook about, what, probably three months ago now or so? Russell: Yeah. Josh: Two, three months ago. And I go, "We need some epic people to interview for the podcast. Who do you know? Tag them all down below." And shout out, Georgie. Georgie comments and goes… "I coached Russell. You should totally interview me." And I was like, "You've got to be pretty gutsy to tag Russell in your comment and tell him you coached him," but then Russell comments back- Russell: And George is an Olympic wrestler. He was on the Bulgarian Olympic team. He wrestled at Boise State with me. He's the man. So yeah. Josh: I commented back. I go, "You coached Russel?" And then Russell goes, "Well, yeah. He coached me. He's awesome. You should totally interview him." And so I said, "Yeah, Georgie, of course, you can come on. We'll do an interview, but Russell, I've got an open invitation to you if you want to come back on." And then you were like, "Sure, if we can talk about…" or no, you didn't say sure. You said, "Can we do it about Atlas Shrugged?" Russell: Yes. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Because I interview a lot about business stuff and- Josh: I'll pull the microphone just slightly. Russell: Yes. I don't do a lot of interviews because ... I feel like I've said, but I don't want to say, but I just finished literally probably the fattest book in the history of books called Atlas Shrugged. And I was geeking out on it and I wanted to talk about it. I didn't have a way or someone to geek out with, other than some of my friends here. And I was like, "If you want to talk about Atlas Shrugged, I'm in." And then you started freaking out. Josh: The funny thing was is I go something to the effect of, "You want to talk about the fall of capitalism because of a boycott, because of a brilliant person and why socialism sucks? Yes, absolutely. I would love to do that," to which you don't give me a yes or no answer. You reply back and go, "Ha-ha. Oh, man. That'd be fun." I'm like, "Talk about an open loop, man. Come on." So anyway, I immediately messaged Russel and I'm like, "You better not be joking because that would just be rude." He goes, "No, I'm totally in." Josh: So about two months go by. You had a bunch of stuff. You had some fun stuff during that time, hanging out with- Russell: Lot of stuff is happening. Josh: Tony Robbins? Russell: Yeah, Tony, man. And it's been chaos the last couple months, not going to lie. And as we got closer and closer to the election, I'm like, "This is an interesting conversation, post-election, but I think it's more interesting before election." And so was it two days ago, three days ago, you're like, "I will fly to Boise to record this." Josh: Yeah. Russell: "What day do you have open?" I'm like, "Only Wednesday night." And now we're here. Josh: Yeah. It was Friday afternoon. We were Voxing back and forth and you're like, "Dude, we've got to get this done before the election." I'm like, "Before the election? Oh, my word." I said, "All right. Sounds good. What time do you have available?" And that's when I was like, "You know what? I was going to ask you creatively, but I'm just going to ask you. How about I fly out to you?" And you're like, "Heck, yeah." Josh: So guys, that's the backstory. That's how we got here. And so this is an open conversation about Atlas Shrugged and kind of everything that encapsulates. I think we'll talk about some religion, some politics, kind of both sides of the aisle there and open it up. Russell: Fun. Josh: Anything else you want to add to that? Russell: The only other thing I would add is, because this book, by the way, if you haven't read it yet, is very polarizing. There are people on both sides of it. Russell: And I think both of us wanted to stress ahead of time that I do not believe in everything in this book. A lot of things in this book, I do believe in. And it's interesting. One of the things I want to dive deeper in in this conversation, I'm excited for and I told you not to do Voxer. I was like, what's fascinating to me is not, "This is what we should believe." What was fascinating to me as I was reading this book, and we'll get into the premise of the book for those who haven't read it, but the big thing is producers and going out there and creating stuff and doing things, which is what entrepreneurs do. Right? And it gets in the part of greed is good. You should be greedy because it's going to create all these amazing things, which then the byproduct's really good. Russell: And part of me is like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes," and then part of me, as a believing Christian, I hear this message I believe in and then I hear in my mind ringing Christ, talking faith, hope, charity, and love. And I feel like they're these two polar opposite things, which by the way, we dive into politics a little bit. There are two polar opposite sides, one that believes one, one believes the other. Russell: And I think that there's a happy medium and that's what I want to dive deep into just because I don't want anyone thinking, "Oh, Russell and Josh just believe this," or whatever. It's like, no, there's sides of this and I empathize on both sides. I want to talk about both of them because they're fascinating. Anyway, I've toyed writing a boy about this concept, these two things. Anyway, I think it should be fun to first time verbally ever talk about this stuff. So I'm excited for it. Josh: Yeah. And I would just echo that, as well. I think one of the things that often happens with me, with my ... So funny. You, who never, ever talks about politics and me who doesn't know how to get on Facebook without arguing about politics, colliding here, but is that a lot of times I get grouped into, "Oh, you like this reading. Therefore, you believe with everything." "You read this book," or, "You support this person," whether it's a political figure or a book or something like that. It's like, by saying that you enjoyed that or that you learned a lot from it, that all of a sudden you suddenly believe everything in it. And that is not the case at all. And I've gotten a lot of criticism from people that are like, "How could you possibly like Atlas Shrugged?" And I'm like, "Well, this is the conversation that we're going to have." Josh: So real quick, before we dive in, I'd be curious ... I want to do a poll real quick. How many of you guys have actually read the book? I'm curious to know. Hold up here. There's two different versions of it, but if you've read the book, just comment below the number one if you have read the book, the number two if you have not read the book. I think that will just kind of give us a poll. We've got 200, 300 people. Russell: And if you listened to the audiobook, we'll count that as reading, too, either way. Josh: Yeah. Not if you know the premise of the book, but actually have read the book and have a deep understanding of it, or not deep understanding. But have like… Russell: Understand the stories them in. Josh: Yeah, things like that, because then it'll be interesting. Russell: One is read. Josh: One is read, two is not read. Oh, more ones than I thought was going to. Russell: Yeah. Me too. Josh: Russell's book is so underrated. Russell: We're 50/50. Josh: Ooh, yeah. I think we should take a poll at the end; what's better, Atlas Shrugged or Dotcom Secrets? That's the real question we should be asking right now. Russell: That would be good, that would be good. Josh: Okay. So we have a lot of people that have not read it, so we'll have to go into the premise of that. Okay. Russell: Are you ready to get started? Josh: Yeah. I'm ready to rock and roll with it. Russell: Oh I’m ready. Josh: Okay. Guys, we want to lay a couple ground rules. Okay? Because I don't know what it's like to be Russell, Russell doesn't know what it's like to be me, but I think we both have a mutual understanding that we could very easily be taken out of context here. Josh: I think the goal, and then I want you to kind of expand upon this, is we're not trying to take a side here. We're trying to have an open discussion about it. This could very easily turn into something that's like, "Why did you vote for Trump? Why Biden sucks, why Biden's great, why Trump sucks," something like that or certain religion. We're not trying to convince you of anything, really. In fact, this is honestly more of a conversation for us. And we're like, "We think it'd be cool to stream it out to a bunch of people because there's a reason for me to fly out here and do that," but the purpose of this is to have an open discussion about the book, the premise of the book, an understanding of it, and then honestly we're probably going to be in our own little world over here. Josh: And we want you guys to interact and comment and engage and push your questions. And we'll go back through it, obviously, but the purpose of this is not to try to convince anybody of anything. It's simple to, at least from my perspective, shed a new perspective and give the perspective of somebody who, for those of you that don't know who Russell is, the founder of a ... ClickFunnels is a billion-dollar company, SaaS company. You have 400 employees? Russell: Yeah. Josh: 400 employees. So from that perspective and from my perspective, to open your eyes to a new perspective of what we like, what we don't like and, like I said, more of a conversation for us. Russell: Yeah. I think that's good. And I think a big thing that we will talk about ... Our goal is not to convince you of anything. In fact, I think I'm still convincing myself of both sides. I believe both these two things that seem contradictory, but I think there's a middle ground and I'm excited to explore it. So it'll be fun. Josh: Cool. So I think we got to- Russell: Talk about the premise of the book? Josh: Yeah, we've got to talk about the premise of the book. Russell: I might have a little mini statue behind me that might help. Can I grab that? Josh: Ooh, yeah. Russell: Okay. So folks that have not read Atlas Shrugged, I didn't know what the premise was at first, but this is the story of Atlas. Some of you guys know Atlas was cursed to have to carry the entire weight of the universe, entire weight of the world upon his shoulders for forever. Right? And so this is where the premise of the book ... All of us, people who are listening to this might guess that you are a producer. Right? Otherwise, you probably wouldn't be listening to me or to Josh. I attract, I teach, I coach, I help producers, entrepreneurs, people who are trying to change the world. Right? Russell: I'm curious, how many of you guys have ever felt this pressure. Right? When you feel like you literally have the entire weight of the world upon your shoulders. And if you haven't, it's time to become a producer. That's first off. Second off, I can empathize, though. There's so many times, you can ask Dave or any guys on my team, there's days I come in, I was like, "I feel like I'm going to crack." There is so much weight to carry this around. And I'm guessing most of you guys have felt that. It could be with your family, could be in work, could be business, whatever, but you've felt the weight of the world. Right? Russell: So this is what Atlas had to hold. Right? And so the premise of the book, Atlas Shrugged, is what would happen if the producers, the people that are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders, what happens if they were to go on strike and they were to shrug their shoulders and be like, "Meh." In fact, should I read your tile you gave me here? Josh: Yeah. Russell: So Josh, as a gift today, gave me some amazing tiles. This is a quote, actually, from the book, Atlas Shrugged, talking about this. It says, "If you saw Atlas, the giant holds the world on his shoulders. If you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling, but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater of his efforts, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders, what would you tell him to do? Just shrug." That's things like, what happens to society when us, the producers, when we no longer want to carry the weight of the world? We shrug and we walk away from it. Russell: And the book is a story about that. What happens when these producers start disappearing and they start leaving, they start going on strike? You see society, what happens when the producers disappear. Josh: Yeah. It's interesting because there is no one named Atlas Shrugged in the book and there's nobody named Ayn Rand in the book. And so there's concepts that she's writing about outside of that and it's this ... How do you summarize a 1200-page book? Basically, in the book, there is a main character by the name of Dagny. Russell: Oh. Yes. Josh: Oh. Russell: I was going to say John Galt, but you're right. Yes, Dagny’s the main character. Josh: Sorry. For the first two thirds of the book, the main character is a woman by the name of Dagny. And basically, she is one of the producers of society. And she's not the head boss of the railroad, but she's basically the person that runs this railroad company. And it is written, what, 1950 is when this was- Russell: Yeah. Josh: So 1950, and it's basically this forecast into the future of a government that is basically forcing super, super strict restrictions onto private businesses and making them do things, kind of like today in America, but super, super government overreach in a lot of ways. And so Dagny is trying to keep the world afloat, more or less, by getting the railroads done on time and getting orders shipped. Josh: And I'm super oversimplifying, but around her, all the people that she works with that owned all these other companies that she would buy copper from or she would buy steel from or buy the railroad track from or buy the coal from, all of a sudden all these head people ... Imagine people like Russell, all his friends just start disappearing. Imagine Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and Russell all just started disappearing. Right? That's what's happening all around her and she doesn't understand what's happening to them because just, one day, it's up and it's gone. Josh: And so the premise of the first two thirds of the book is showing this story of this producer who is living in this world of super government tyranny, overreach that's super, super controlling and she's watching all of her friends disappear and she doesn't know why. Would you say that's a pretty good explanation of it so far? Russell: Yeah. And every time they disappear, they leave behind a note or something that says, "Who is John Galt?" That's this theme throughout the book, is who is John Galt? Who is this John Galt person that makes all the producers disappear? Josh: And Dagny has no idea who John Galt is. Right? She doesn't even know, actually, for awhile that John Galt's actually even a real person. And so once she does find out that John Galt is probably a real person, John Galt becomes her sworn enemy because she doesn't know who he is or what he's doing. All she knows and all she associates with is that John Galt is taking away all these producers of society and is making her life harder because ... Imagine you being an entrepreneur and all of your entrepreneur friends that you buy stuff from and that you send all your people to, your referrals and everything, you buy all your supplies from, imagine they're all just disappearing and you think it's because of this one guy who's taking them all away and you don't know what's happening to them. Obviously, they'd become your sworn enemy. Josh: So for the first two thirds-ish of the book, that's kind of this premise of they're painting this really, really vivid story of the ... what are they called, the great thinkers of society? Yeah, the great minds of society, basically disappearing. And Dagny and ... there's a guy by the name of Hank Rearden, I think. Russell: Yeah, Rearden Steel. Josh: Rearden Steel, yeah. So Dagny and Hank Rearden are the two major ones left right before the big plot twist happens and you're like, "Oh," and then you get introduced to John Galt. I'm going to let you explain John Galt now. Russell: Oh, man. Okay. So that's the first two thirds of the book. By the way, there's movies. Don't watch them. They'll ruin the book. The movies were really bad. Josh: Yeah. Read the book. Russell: So two thirds into the book, she starts trying to figure out this mystery of who's John Galt. She ends up finding him and turns out that he has been going around and getting all these producers to go on strike, convinces them to, "Look, it's not worth fighting for anymore. All your incentives are gone. Let's leave. Let's go on strike," and they leave. And John Galt's trying to get her to leave and she's like, "I can't. I have to do everything in my power." The last third of the book is her leaving John Galt's presence and going back and trying to figure out how to do this thing as she's watching just government regulations getting harder, and harder, and harder, and harder to the point where everyone just has to disappear. Russell: But one of the things John Galt and the people say, "When the lights of New York go out, then we'll come back and we'll rebuild society from the ground up, after the looters and the people are gone." Josh: And that's basically how the books ends is lights of New York go out and then- Russell: For such a long book, all of a sudden it just ends and you're like, "Oh, I need one more chapter. Come on. Just end it." Josh: And we're never going to get it. Ah. Russell: Well, maybe I'll write it. Josh: Yeah. So that's the storyline of the book, but what I think we really both want to focus here is kind of the premises and the overarching ideas that the book presents, and capitalism versus socialism, and I think we'll talk religion and politics and kind of everything that’s in that, but I kind of want to, if it's all right with you, I kind of want to turn the conversation more towards us now and just kind of start geeking out just about that. Josh: So guys, we'll obviously go back and ... By the way, we want all your comments if you're ... Actually, comment below right now. Where are you watching? Are you watching it on YouTube? Are you watching it on Think Different Theory page or are you watching it on Russell's page? Comment down below because we went to multiple different locations. So we have a bunch of different people tuning in for everything. So just comment down below. Leave your comments, leave your questions, smash the like button, love button, share this out, and we're going to be here. Josh: All right, Russell. What's up? Russell: Hey, man. Josh: All right. Dude, I've been wanting to, and I hate this terminology, but just pick somebody's brain like yours for the longest time. And this book, oh, my gosh. So what do you like about the book? What was your favorite thing? Russell: Yeah. Well, let me tell the backstory. So 2008 is when the market crashed last time, right? Josh: Yeah. Russell: And I didn't realize that, that year, over 500,000 copies were sold organically by people talking to me about it, talking about, "Everything's she's prophesying is happening right now." And so, back then, I remember all my entrepreneur friends, like, "You have to read this book." It was the word-of-mouth buzz that sold 500,000 copies of a book has been ... The author died, whatever, 30 years earlier. There's not active marketing out there. It's crazy. And everyone's talking about it, like, "What's happening in this book is happening in 2008." And it was just this prophecy that was being fulfilled. Russell: And so everyone in 2008 was telling me to read this book. I remember buying it and I was like, "This is a really, really big book." And it took me awhile to get into it and I could never get into it. I read the first, I don't know, first 200 or 300 pages four or five times. And then, finally, this summer, one of my very first trips where I didn't bring a laptop since my marriage. So my wife is very proud of me. Josh: Dang. Russell: And so as I was leaving the office, I grabbed this book. And I picked it up and I was like, "I have no computer, but I've got this." And usually, I bring 20 books just because I know I'm going to read. I just brought one and I was like, "I'm going to do this. I'm going to be forced. I'm on a lake for a week and a half with my kids and all I can do is read this book." So I brought it, got the audiobook, as well. It's funny, I do the same. I listen to the audiobook and I read along so I can listen to it way faster, that way. And I started going through it. It took me a little while. She does such a good job of character development at the very beginning, it took awhile to get into it. Josh: Yeah, for sure. Russell: And then the story hits and then you're just like ... And you couldn't- Josh: It's like thing, after thing, after thing. It's so quick. Russell: Oh, yeah. And it got crazy. So for me, it was interesting because I think, if I would've listened to it 10 years ago or read it 10 years ago, I had never experienced any of the things they talk about in this book. Right? Josh: Now you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Russell: Even better. I never experienced government regulations and things like that or just those kind of things. And as ClickFunnels has grown from me and Todd to our first member, to our first thousand, 10,000, 100,000 members, 400 ... I don't know how many employees, a lot, 400 plus employees. As it's grown, it's been crazy because you would think all we'd be focusing on here inside ClickFunnels is the next feature in the app, next thing. Russell: And there's the year where we had to spend an entire year just refactoring the software for GDPR compliance. We have regulations that come in on taxes and this. It's constant where most of the battles we fight at ClickFunnels right now is not about, how do we make this thing better for the customer? It's, how do we protect our customers from the government? It's crazy. And just so many regulations and things. Russell: And so I have been feeling this pressure. Some of you guys may have seen my interview I did with Tony Robbins ... not interview, but Tony Robbins did an intervention with me last year in Fiji. Josh: Yeah. That was fascinating, by the way. Russell: I'm so glad we captured that. It was a really cool moment in my life, but if you listen in there, I talked about ... He's like, "Well, what do you want to do?" And I was like, "I don't know, but the pressure ... I love the same, so I love everything I'm doing. I love the people we're serving, but there's these other pressures that aren't the game, that aren't the people, that they just get so heavy sometimes where it makes me want to just walk away." And again, as I'm reading this book- Josh: You hadn't read the book at the time. Russell: I hadn't read it yet. Josh: Yeah, okay. Russell: As I'm reading this, it's like- Josh: Did you know anything about the- Russell: I did not know the premise, no. Josh: You knew nothing. Okay, okay, okay. Russell: I didn't know what Atlas Shrugged meant. I was just like, "Oh, it's Atlas ..." I didn't know ... And it was like, when I read this title, like, "What would you tell Atlas if this was happening? Just shrug." And I was like, "Oh, that's why they called it Atlas Shrugged." And then I remember vividly feeling the pressure of this calling and how heavy it is. Russell: And there's so many times I wish, like, "Okay, sometimes it'd be so nice to walk away or to shrug or whatever." And so I instantly, with Dagny's character, I was like ... I feel that with Hank Rearden. I had so much empathy and understood their characters because I feel that so many times. Hank Rearden just wanted to invent his steel and put it out. That's all he cared about, right? For me, funnels are my art. I can't draw, but funnels, that's my art and entrepreneurship. That's my art. And so I just want to do my art. That's it. He just wanted to create steel. And it's all these other things and it's just like, "I just want to do my steel. I just want to do my art. Why do I have to deal with all this other stuff?" Russell: And so as I'm reading this, I just had so much empathy for the characters because I felt like I was the characters, even though it was weird because it's railroads and stuff like that and I'm internet, but I think that's why I really got into it. And then I got just curious, what happens? How does this story end? Be I'm in the middle of it. And depending who's listening, you may or may not have felt some of these pressures. As you grow, you feel them. Russell: It's interesting. As ClickFunnels has grown, we've talked about the pressure that I feel today would've crushed me five years ago. Right? And so you have to go through this thing where you build capacity to handle the next set of pressure, and build capacity, and build capacity. And nowadays, stuff happens daily that's just like, "Man, that would've destroyed me five years ago." Russell: And so I think, if you guys haven't felt that, as you grow, as you continue to try to get your message out and try to grow your businesses, whatever, the bigger you get, the more that pressure comes. Josh: Do you think…with that ... And I want to continue that because it's such a good conversation, but with the pressure, the things that are happening now daily that would've wrecked you five years ago or three years ago, whatever it was, do you think it's good, though, that they would've? Is it good that, at the capacity that you understood, that you took those things seriously then or would it have been better for you to just be in this mindset? I know it's not possible, but looking back, if you could snap your fingers and back then would've had the mental capacity to just ignore all those things and go up, would that've been a good thing? Or the fact that you went through all those things, does that help? Russell: The going through it is what makes you worthy of the things, right? Josh: Being able to… Russell: It makes you ready for it. Otherwise, just like lifting weights, if you try to squat 800 pounds, that's what it feels like. Right? Your legs buckle and you die, but because you went through that thing, you're able to have the capacity to hold the weight. Josh: Okay. Russell: Yeah. So anyways, the thing for me that was the big thing is reading this. And so I was just fascinated because I was like, "This is kind of my story. How does it end?" Josh: How long did it take you to get through it? Russell: I'd say about two months. I got a lot of it done on the boat, and then I got into biking for a little while, so I was listening to it while I was biking. Josh: That's right, I remember that. Russell: I just kept biking and biking, like, "One more chapter, one more chapter." I'm in really good shape because of it. It's funny because one of the premises ... And they don't say greed is good, but there's a chapter, I think it's called Greed. And I remember, if you guys have ever seen Wall Street, Gordon Gekko talks about, "Greed is good," and I never understood that premise. Right? In the book, they start talking about that, how greed is what drives this whole thing. Is it called Greed? Josh: I'm trying to find it. Russell: Utopia of Greed, yeah. Josh: And then Anti-Greed. So Utopia of Greed and then Anti-Greed. Russell: So what's interesting is ... because all of us are taught that greed is bad, right? That's just, like, you shouldn't be greedy. That's, I think, a principle that's instilled in most of us, but then I think about, for me, when I started this business, why did I start this business? I wanted to make money. That's greed, right? And you think about any of us, we go through a phase in all of our lives that greed is the driving factor. Right? When I wanted to become a good wrestler, I wanted to become a good wrestler. It was greedy. I went and got coaches and spent all my time and it was a very selfish time in my life. Not that it's bad, but it's a very greedy time. Right? Kids, when they're first born ... I love my kids. They are so ... not in a bad way, but they're greedy. It's about them. Right? Josh: Right. Russell: And it's this growth phase where growth ... You have to be greedy. You're in the growth phase. Right? When you're trying to learn, you're sucking things and you're learning and you're not contributing it. You're just learning, you're growing. And it was interesting because, as I'm going through this, I'm like, the greed is what got me into business. Right? And it's what got these things started and then the byproduct of that is jobs were created and things ... All the byproduct of it is ... I think, in the book, how it justifies it, Hank Rearden going after ... he wanted to build his steel and make a bunch of money, created tens of thousands of jobs and changed the world and changes all these things. Russell: And so the premise of the book is that greed is this driving force that gets you moving. And it is. If you think about any aspect of your life, from sports to education, to business, to everything, it starts with greed. Now, we'll go deeper into this. I don't want everyone to think that I'm just into this for the greed, because there's a transition point. We'll talk about it in a minute, but there's a transition point from growth to contribution that happens, but that's in the book where it starts talking about that. Russell: And I remember I was on the greenbelt here in Boise, riding my bike with James P. Friel, listening to that chapter. And I was trying to think, "Is this true? Did I get started because of greed?" And it's like, yeah, I didn't start a business because I wanted to change the world. Eventually, that happened, but it wasn't like it was ... Greed was the driving force that moved me forward. I think it moves all of us forward such a long time. And as I was listening as I'm riding my bike, I'm like, "Yes, I understand this," and the other half of me was like ... I started thinking about my spiritual upbringing. Right? Josh: Yeah. Russell: I'm very Christian. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints and I started thinking about Christ and his teachings, which are, honestly, the opposite of that. Right? It's like- Josh: Really the polar opposite. Russell: Yeah. Josh: Which it's funny, whenever you say that, people are like, "You know, Jesus was a socialist." I hear that a lot. I'm like, "You need to read the Bible." Anyway, but I think a lot- Russell: But he definitely is way more liberal leaning, 100%. Josh: Right, right. And I think that that's where Republicans, conservative, traditionally on that side of the aisle, fiscally Republicans get into trouble is where we're like, "Yeah, we're Christians, but we also want to get rich," and they never talk about all this other ... People like to use Christianity, I feel like, when it's convenient. Russell: We call it cafeteria Christians. Josh: Right. Russell: They pick and choose the things off the menu they want. Josh: Right. And then they go through and do it. So I definitely want to dive further into that, but continue that. Russell: Yeah. So that started this question in my head, though, of just, so is greed bad then or is it good or where does it fit in the whole grand scheme of things? Because it is something that's instilled in all of us from birth. Right? When you're born, you're a baby, if you didn't have greed, you would just die. Right? It's me. I need food, I need love, I need shelter. It makes you cry, which creates people coming to you. Greed is a driving force that's instilled in humans from birth, right? When we come here, greed is what helps us survive the first part of our life. Russell: And first, I was having this conundrum. I'm just like, "God, is this book evil? I don't know what to do with myself." Right? But all good things in my life that happened happened initially because the seed of greed started me on motion, started me in momentum. And then I started thinking, if you've read the Expert Secrets book, which- Josh: If you haven't, come on. Russell: If you haven't, you must hate money. Come on. No, but in the beginning of Expert Secrets book, I talk about this concept, as well, where as an expert, there's two phases to go through. The first is a growth phase. Right? I want to be an expert in whatever. You go through and you're a consumer, consuming everything. And that's greed, right? And then there's this transition point where, eventually, you keep trying to grow, grow, grow, grow, trying to learn everything, going there. I'm listening to all the podcasts, I'm reading all the books, I'm growing, growing, growing. And eventually, there's this point. I remember feeling it in multiple parts of my life. In wrestling, I felt it. In business, I felt it where you can't continue ... The ability to grow through consumption slows to almost a halt where you can't continue to grow. Right? Russell: I've shared this story. I think I shared it in the book with wrestling. I was a really good wrestler. I was a high school state champ. I took second place in the nation. I was an All-American. And my senior year, I got invited to go to a wrestling camp. My coach was like, "Hey, do you want to come coach wrestling this summer?" And I was like, "Why would I do that? What's in it for me?" Josh: Before you go on here, I want to ask you something. So you're riding your bike, wrestling with this whole greed thing. Is this the first time that you've thought about greed in this way? Russell: 100%. Josh: And this is, what, six months ago? Russell: Not even that. Maybe four months ago. Josh: So you've built most of what ClickFunnels is today and now this is the first time you're really sitting down and wrestling with this idea of greed and is it bad, is it good, what's the balance there and stuff like that? Russell: Yeah. Josh: That's fascinating. Russell: Yeah. It never crossed my mind, really. And then it became this thing where it bothered me because I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. I don't want to be a greedy person." You know what I mean? Josh: Right. Russell: I'm like, "I don't feel like I am," but I was stuck. I couldn't figure that out. Right? And so I'll rewind to the wrestling story because I think it will set it up. Josh: Yep. Russell: But my senior year, again, I'd been growing as a wrestler. I was going to camps. I was getting coaching. I was greedy. I was sucking up everyone's brainpower I could and I became a really good wrestler because of it. And then my coach asked me to go coach a wrestling camp. So I say yes, go to the wrestling camp, and I remember he's like, "Okay, I need you to teach ..." My best move… I'm really good at tilts. So for all the wrestlers out there, I'm really good at cheap tilts. And he's like, "Teach these kids how to do a cheap tilt." Russell: And I was like, "Okay." So I walk out, there are like 30 kids. I'm like, "Yeah, you do this. You just do it like that." And they all look at me and they go try and they try to do a cheap tilt and they all just fall apart. I'm like, "Are you guys dumb? This is not that hard." I'm like, "Come back in, come back in. No, you did it all wrong. This is how you do it." I show them again, like, "Go do it." They go back out, nobody can do it. Russell: And then, all of a sudden, I'm like, "Gosh, they're missing something. What is it?" So I have them come back in and I start breaking down, "Hey, for the move to work, your hips have to be here, your legs have to be here." I start walking through all the things. And as I'm doing that, I start realizing, "Oh, the season why I'm able to do this is because of this," and I started realizing what I was doing as I was teaching people. And as I taught it to people, then the kids started doing it and they got better and better. And all of a sudden, I started realizing, "Oh, my gosh. This move works because of this." Russell: And now that I was aware of the situation, now I was able to make these tweaks and stuff on my own. And I realized that, but coaching the kids, that was the next-level growth. It was a shift from selfish greed growth to contribution. So that's why I started coaching camps every year and that's why I went from slowing down my progression to, all of a sudden, it sped back up again by shifting from growth to contribution. Okay? Russell: And so I think the same thing happens in business, right? I got in business because that seed of greed is in us. It gets us moving, gets us in the momentum. And some people never get out of that. Some people live their entire lives chasing greed and they die and it's a tragedy, but I think for most people, there's this transition point. And I don't know where it happens. It happens different spots for everyone where, all of a sudden, you realize ... you make the money, you started the business, and you realizing how unfulfilling that is. You're tapping out. You're like, "I'm not growing anymore. I thought I wanted money, but I don't. I want growth. That's what we're here on this planet for, is to grow as humans. Right? Russell: You don't get that and, all of a sudden, you realize money's not fulfilling and then you start seeing the other people you're contributing to and you're helping. Then it shifts to ... We hear people talk about, "This is about impact, about growth, it's about helping other people," and that's that transition. That's charity, love. That's pure love of Christ. It's that transition, but greed is the seed that gets us moving, right? And so there's this handoff. It doesn't happen all the time. And are you guys cool if I share scripture stuff? Because- Josh: 100%. Russell: -all this stuff is scriptural. It's not just- Josh: They don't get to decide, Russell. I get to decide. It's my podcast. You can talk about whatever. Russell: If you hate scripture, just close your ears and go, "Blah, blah, blah." So I wrote down some scripture. This is a scripture because it illustrates this point. I think it's so good. Josh: Also, I just want to say, Russell Voxed me and he said that this is the first episode of a podcast that he's ever prepared for. When you said that, I'm like, "Ha! I was the first for something for Russell. Let's go." Russell: I want to be ready. Okay. So this is a scripture. It says, "For the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever." I'm going to stop right there. Okay. So natural man is an enemy to God. Why is that? We're born. We have this greed inside of us, so the natural human is the enemy of God because we're chasing after greed. Right? But God gives us that seed because it creates momentum. It creates motion. It creates us doing something. Right? Russell: And then it says in here, it says, "For the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam, will be forever and ever," and then this is the transition point, "unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit." So he's greedy forever, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and puteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ, the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father." Russell: So growth is the seed. It's the natural man. It's the thing we have that's ... It's good, right? God gives it to us because it gets us to do stuff, gets us to learn, gets us to not die in our crib because we need love and attention and to get fed. Right? So then it gets us off our butts, off the couches, us being producers that gets us moving. And if we're not careful, though, the natural man will destroy us. You see so many people who made tons of money and they destroyed themselves in their lives because they don't do that second thing, which is, "Unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit." Russell: That's the thing saying this is not about money, this is about the impact. Look at the people you're changing. And it shifts, right? If you make that shift, all of a sudden, now this thing you’re creating is not about greed, it's like, "Oh, my gosh ..." I remember, for ClickFunnels, when I had that transition was when I started seeing Brandon and Kaelin Poulin. I started seeing the ripple effect of their business. And I can name hundreds of people, person, after person, after person. Russell: I was like, "This isn't about money. This is about the ripple effect of what we've created in each person's life." Now, that's charity. That's love. Now the mission isn't about money. We don't care about the money. We keep score with money, but that's the mission, is the people's lives and the impact. And I think that's that transition where greed is the thing that gets us moving, but if we don't have that ... Russell: I think that's happened in the book. We talked about it. You said this at my house earlier, like, "A lot of people in the book seem like they have a miserable life." And it's like, yeah, because they never yielded to the spirit. They never made that shift. It was all greed to the point where they let everything collapse as opposed to the charity side of things. Josh: Yeah. So one of the things about the book ... And I'm sitting on the plane on the way over here and I'm like, "How do I articulate this?" Because that's always the hardest thing. You have this idea in your head and you're like, "How do I get it out and explain it in a way that somebody else can be like, 'Yes, I understand that?'" I'm going to go kind of political here for a second. I'm going to bring it back, too, specifically to the book. So I am pretty vocally a conservative. Right? I'm a blatant Trump supporter, very much so conservative when it comes to everything fiscal, but I call myself a libertarian because I actually think that I lean left on a lot of social issues. I think the government should stay out of gay marriage. Right? There's a lot of things that I lean left on, but when it comes to money and finances and things like that, I lean to the right. Josh: But the reason I lean to the right and I typically go with the right is because I like what the left is trying to do in concept. It's like, okay, there's a bunch of people that are really truly in need. I agree. We need to help them. The problem is is that the way they go about doing it, I so radically disagree with it. It's against everything that I stand for. Right? I'm like, it's not that I disagree with what you want to do, it's I disagree with how you want to do it. Josh: What's interesting is I feel like, in this book, I feel like it's the opposite. I actually don't agree with why they're doing it. This concept of ... I mean, Hank Rearden says it over and over again, "Everything that I do is for profit." That is it. Even to his friends. He took a bullet for John Galt, right? He gets shot. And John Galt thanks him for it. He goes, "You know I only did it because it's what I wanted to do, right?" Literally saves a guy's life. Josh: So it's all about what he wants and only for him and that's it. And it's profit and money and dollars. It's not about everything that he helps. And I'm like, I disagree with that premise, but what that leads to, I actually do like. And I feel like it's flipped compared to the world I'm living in now. Half the stuff that the Democrats ... I hate to… oh I want to go into politics so bad… Russell: Left and right. Josh: Yeah, the left. Guys, we're going to say left and right. Generalized here, right? Oh, my god, but generally speaking. And so when it comes to the whole greed issue, I'm like ... It's interesting to hear your perspective because I never, even throughout the book, I'm like, "Greed is a bad thing." And hearing your perspective, I'm like, okay, I understand what you're saying, but is it greed or is there some other driving ... If I were to ask you a year ago ... When were you in the heart of ClickFunnels, like a year and a half ago, two years? There was a time of your life when all you ... I know all you do is ClickFunnels, but when- Russell: It's the last six years of my life. Josh: But you know what I mean? Wasn't there a year or two period in there, in the growth phase, where 100% of everything you do was just ClickFunnels, ClickFunnels, ClickFunnels. It felt like you were going nonstop. It feels like you're a little bit more balanced now. Maybe not, but from the outside perspective looking in, it does. Anyway, during that time of growing ClickFunnels, before you read that, would you have described yourself as greedy? Russell: No. Josh: What would you have described yourself as? What's the word? Russell: I don't know. That's a good question. I was always trying to create stuff. It's art for me, right? So it's like I was trying to create stuff. I think, initially, I was creating for myself as opposed to, "Oh, my gosh. I create this for myself, but look what happens to the people." Josh: What point was that shift for you, though? Russell: You can see it in my marketing, by the way. And by the way, for those who are greedy capitalists who only care about money, it actually is a better marketing way, too. My marketing went from- Josh: For all you greedy capitalists out there, switch to being a contributor, you’ll make more money. Russell: Well, think about it. My marketing is always like, "Here's Russell. Here's how much money my funnel made. Here's how much ..." It was me talking about me all the time. And then I realized, "Who cares about me? I don't care about me. Let me show you what this person ... Let me show you all the results of the people we're serving, what's happening there," which first off, is better marketing and, second off, it's that transition where I was literally like, "Everything I've accomplished is stupid. What they're doing, that's the real ... What we're doing, that's the thing that's amazing." Right? That's the spiritual side of it. That's the thing where it's like, the thing that got you into motion now is doing good in the world. And when you start seeing that, it's like, oh, my gosh. That's so much more fulfilling and so much more exciting. Russell: And people ask me, "The last six years, why'd you keep getting up? Do you need more money?" I'm like, "No, that's not what keeps me up," but I can tell you 100 stories of people who ... literally the ripple effect of how many lives they've changed because I did my thing. Right? We made a documentary of the Two Comma Club and Jamie Cross has this whole part there where she's bawling her eyes out and she said, "Where would my family be if Russell wouldn't have fulfilled his God-given calling?" And every time I see that, I start bawling, myself. That's why, eventually, you start doing it. Right? Josh: But when did that shift happen? Russell: I don't know. It wasn't a day that it happened. The energy of it shifted. Right? I don't know. It gradually kind of happened. Josh: What's that? Dave: Tell them about your dad. Josh: Yeah. Russell: Dave, come on in. Dave's here. Dave, take the mic. Here. Dave: Yeah. No, honestly, I think… this has been one of those things. It's been fun for me to watch Russell from the sidelines here. I think, honestly, it was your dad's 60th birthday. Josh: Which was how long ago? Dave: I don't even know. Russell: Three, four years ago probably. Dave: But it was the reflection on that and it was the difference from having your hand raised versus ... because I remember you… Russell: Yeah, you want me to tell that story? Dave: Russell is a much better storyteller. I'll seed the thought, but I'll let him finish. Russell: All right. Josh: Oh, thank you Dave. Russell: Thank you. Interesting. Josh: Guys, we have a live audience here. Russell: So yeah, my dad turned 60 and we have our little family reunion every year we do. And so it was during his birthday. And I remember my mom gave him $60, six $10 bills. And so she gave them to him one at a time and said, "Okay, the first decade was one to 10. Tell us something you remember about that." He's like, "I don't remember anything back then." The second one, he's like, "10 to 20, that's when I was a wrestler. It was so much fun for me." And then, 20 to 30, he was like, "Okay, that's when I was starting my business, trying to figure things out and trying to get our family stable." 30 to 40, "That's when my kids were wrestling and I was coaching them." And then 50 to 60, he kind of went through everything. Russell: And then, after it was done, I asked him, I said, "Well, Dad, of all the decades, what one was the best for you?" Thinking, in my world, the best was going to be when he was a wrestler because I was like, for me, the greatest part of my life was when I was wrestling. And my dad said, "The greatest decade was when I got to coach you." I forgot that story until Dave said that, but I remember coming back and telling Dave and other people that I always thought the best part was being the all star. For my dad, the best part was coaching other people and seeing their hand raised. Josh: That was a good interjection there, Dave. Huh. Russell: …which was really cool. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Air Transat presents two friends traveling in Europe for the first time and feeling some pretty big emotions. This coffee is so good. How do they make it so rich and tasty? Those paintings we saw today weren't prints. They were the actual paintings. I have never seen tomatoes like this. How are they so red? With flight deals starting at just $589, it's time for you to see what Europe has to offer. Don't worry, you can handle it. Visit airtransat.com for details. Conditions apply. AirTransat.

Travel moves us. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. And right now, I have a treat for you. Over the next five episodes, I'm going to be taking you in behind the scenes of an interview that I did with Josh Forte about the book Atlas Shrugged. And some of you guys have read Atlas Shrugged, some of you haven't, some of you know the premise,

some of you don't. And I want to preface this by saying I do not believe in everything taught in the Atlas Shrugged book. I love a lot of it. It talks about producers versus consumers, the looters and the takers versus those in society who are the creators, right? And there's a lot of themes that I strongly align with. There's also things that I don't strongly align with. Um, and so I love, I love the book, like one of my favorites I've ever read. Um, and, uh, and so that's, that's the first thing. Number two is, um, as I was finished the book, I remember Josh Forty, um, who's one of our funnel hackers. He wanted to interview with me and I was just like, I don't have time for interviews.

And, um, as we're getting closer and closer to the election, we kind of got in a, we talked on Facebook, we were posting some comments. I was like, you know what? The interview that I would actually love to do would be about Atlas Shrugged, looking at the whole political thing that's happening right now and the elections and everything through the lens of Atlas Shrugged. That'd actually be fascinating for me because I don't typically, as you know, talk about politics, right? I do talk about religion, but I don't talk about politics. That's not something I typically go into. But I thought

it'd be interesting to look at politics from the lens of Atlas Shrugged. And so in this interview series, it's a lot of fun. We talk about producers versus consumers. We talk about the left and the right. We talk about some political things. Now, Josh, just so you know, ahead of time, he is very pro-Trump, very much on that side of the discussions during this interview. And this interview just took place before the elections. As of right now, I'm still not sure who won. You guys probably will know at the time you're listening to this, but when I'm recording this, we don't know. But he definitely leans on the Trump side. Again, I don't really share much of um, but, um, he definitely leans on the Trump side. Um, uh, again, I don't really share much of my political beliefs, but you'll get kind of what I believe and why I believe

it, um, through the lens of Atlas Shrugged over this interview series. So I hope you enjoy it. Um, it was a lot of fun to do, uh, a lot of great, great feedback and comments. Um, and again, we talk about stuff I don't typically talk about ever. So this may be a one-time shot to hear inside my mind when it comes to politics, religion, and all through the lens of Atlas Shrugged, the book. So with that said, I want to introduce you guys to the first part of this five-part interview series with me and Josh Forty talking about Atlas Shrugged. So the big question is this. How are entrepreneurs like us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, we're spending money from our own pockets. How do we market in a

way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to Marketing Secrets. We are live. What's up everybody? Oh my word, with the incredibly, I don't know if long-awaited, it hasn't really been that long since we planned this. Two months ago. So much expected podcast with Mr. Russell Brunson.

How are you doing, dude? I'm doing amazing, man. Thanks for flying all the way to boise just for this conversation yeah absolutely dude i'm this is probably the conversation i'm looking forward to most certainly in my life thus far when it comes to business and business and philosophy and everything like that well it's funny your wife said oh thanks so much for coming out i was like yeah it's certainly yeah because it's inconvenient to me to fly all the way out here i will say this is my first ever in-person interview like this. Oh really?

Yeah. We got the microphone set up. I know we have professional. I've never done. We have literally, we have a soundboard down here. We got Russell's mic. Can you guys hear us?

All right. By the way, guys, for all of you listening on audio, we apologize. Cause we're going to ask for some comments in the Facebook feed here. We got everybody down here, by the way,

you can see all the comments down here. What's up everyone. All right, guys, if you are live, comment down below below let us know where you're tuning in from let us know if you know russell or if you know me or if you know both of us or what you're both looking forward to and uh russell i'm going to be honest with you we're just going to be like super chill act we have guys we have a live audience back here we got dave dave's over there

we got jake and nick where's where'd jake go jake's working oh there there we go jake's working late over there by the way design these amazing shirts for yeah check this out this is my reared and still shirt this is like who is john gall's shirt it is great okay but i feel like you have to look back to back so i'll read to you guys it says uh i stand by i started my life with a single absolute that the world was made uh was mine to shape in the image of my highest values and never to be given to a lesser standard no matter how long or hard the struggle. So do you guys like these shirts? These are custom-made for tonight. And you guys may have a chance to get one of these,

but not yet. Not yet. Not yet. We'll let you know when you put them in the ability. If you guys... Oh, man. Oh, man. Anyway, it's going to be fun.

But these are custom. We literally made these today because we're going to win some sweet shirts for the show. Oh, Caleb Wolf says he got your text. Did you send out a text to everybody? Russell on top of that. I sent out a many chat. Russell sent out a text. All right, guys.

Let's lay some ground rules here. The quick backstory behind this and it's going to be weird. Got to look at the camera here. Quick backstory behind this is I make a post on Facebook about what? Probably three months ago now or so? Three months ago and I go, we need some epic people to interview for the podcast. Who do you know? Tag them all down below and shout out Georgie Georgie comments and goes, uh,

I coached Russell Brunson. You should totally interview me. And I was like, you gotta be, you gotta be pretty gutsy to like tag Russell in your comment and tell him you coached him. Um, but then Russell comments back. George is a Olympic wrestler. He was on the bulgarian olympic team he wrestled the boise state with me he's the man so yeah so he uh he got all right call me back i go you coach russell and then russell goes well yeah he coached me he's awesome he's totally interviewing and so i said yeah george of course you can come on we'll do an interview but russell

we got an open invitation to you if you want to come back on and then then you're like sure if we can talk about guns or no you didn't say. You said, can we do it about Atlas Shrug? Yes. Yeah. Because I interview a lot about business stuff. And like, I'll pull the microphone just slightly. I don't do a lot of interviews because I feel like I've said what I want to say. But I just finished literally probably the fattest book in the history of books called Atlas Shrug.

And I was geeking out on it. And I want to talk about it. I didn't have a way or someone to geek out with other than some of my friends here. And I was like, go talk about how the shrugged I'm in. And then you started freaking out. Well, the funny thing was is I go something to the effect of like you want to talk about the fall of capitalism because of a boycott, because of a brilliant person and why socialism sucks. Yes, absolutely. I would love to do that.

To which you don't give me a yes or no answer you reply back and go ha ha oh man that'd be fun i'm like talk about an open loop man come on so anyway um i immediately messaged russell and i'm like you better not be you better not be joking because it's like that would just be rude because no i'm totally in so about two months go by you had a bunch of stuff you had some fun stuff during that time a lot of things happening tony robbins yeah tony man and yeah it's been it's been chaos the last couple months not gonna lie and we got we got closer and closer to election i'm like this is an interesting conversation post-election but i think it's more interesting before election and so like was it two days ago three days ago you're like i will fight a boy so yeah record this what day do you have open i'm

like only wednesday night and now it was yeah it was uh friday afternoon um i've like we were rocking back and forth you're like dude we gotta get this done before the election i'm like huh before the election oh my word i said all right sounds good like what time you have available and that's what's like you know what i was gonna ask you creatively but i'm just gonna ask you how about i fly out to you and you're like heck yeah so guys that's the backstory that's how we got here. And so this is an open conversation about Atlas Shrugged and kind of everything that encapsulates. I think we'll talk about some religion, some politics, kind of both sides of the aisle there and open it up.

So anything else you want to add to that? The only thing I would add is because this book, by the way, if you haven't read it yet, is very polarizing. There are people on both sides of it. And I think both of us wanted to stress ahead of time that, um, I do not believe in everything in this book. A lot of things in this book, I do believe it. Um, and it's interesting. One of the things I want to dive deeper in, in this conversation, I'm excited for it. I told you on through Voxer, I was like, I was like, what's fascinating to me is not like, this is what we should believe. What was fascinating to me is as I was reading this book and we'll,

we'll get into premise of the book for those who haven't read it, but you know, the big things like producers and like, and going out there and like creating stuff and doing things, which is like what entrepreneurs do. Right. And, and it even gets to the part of like, like greed is good. Like you should be greedy because it's going to create all these, these amazing things, which, which then does the byproducts really good. And part of me is like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then part of me as a, as a believing Christian is like, I hear this message I believe in. And I hear in my mind ringing Christ talking about faith, hope, charity, and love. And like, and I feel like there are these two polar opposite things, which by the way, when we dive into politics a little bit, like there are two polar opposite sides, one that

believes one, one believes the other. And I think that there's, there's a happy medium. And that's what I want to dive deep into is because I don't want anyone thinking like, oh, Russell and Josh just believe this or whatever. It's like, no, there there's, there's sides of this. And I empathize on both sides. I want to talk about both of them because they're fascinating. And I think I've, uh, anyway, I've, I've, I've toyed like writing a book about this concept, these two things. I, anyway, I think it'd just be fun to kind of first time verbally ever talk about. Yeah. So I'm excited

for it. Yeah. And I would just echo that as well. Um, I think one of the things that often happens with me with my, it's so funny, you who never ever talks about politics and me who doesn't know how to get on Facebook without arguing about politics, colliding here, but is that a lot of times I get like grouped into, oh, you like this reading, therefore you believe with like everything. Like you read this book or you like support this person or whether it's, you know, a political figure or a book or something like that. It's like by saying that you enjoy that or that you learned a lot from it, that like all of a sudden, like you suddenly believe everything in it. And that is not the case at all. And I've gotten a lot of criticism from people that are like, how could you possibly

like Atlas Shrugged? And I'm like, well, this is the conversation that we're going to have. So real quick, before we dive in, I'd be curious. I want to do a poll real quick. How many of you guys have actually read the book? I'm curious to know. Yeah, hold it up here. There's two different versions of it. But if you've read the book just comment below just the number one if you have read the book the number two if you have not read the book i think that'll just kind of give us a poll we got like two three hundred people we'll count that as reading too yeah either way yeah if you like not if you like know the premise of the book but like actually have read the book and like have a uh deep understanding of it or not deep understanding does that understand the stories

yeah yeah things like that. Because I think that'd be interesting. One is read. One is read. Two is not read. More ones than I thought it was going to. Russell's book is so underrated. We're 50-50.

Oh, yeah. I think we should take a poll at the end. What's better, Atlas Shrugged or Dotcom Secrets? That's the real question we should be asking right now. That would be good. Okay. So we have a lot of people that have not read it. So we'll have to go into the premise of that.

Okay. Are you ready to start, dude? Yeah yeah there's a rock and roll with it okay um guys we want to let a couple ground rules okay because russell i don't know what it's like to be russell russell doesn't know what it's like to be me but like i think we both have a mutual understanding that we could very easily be taking out of context here um i think the goal and then i want you to kind of expound upon this is like we're not trying to take a side here we're trying to have open discussion about it like this could very easily turn into something that's like, why are you over Trump? Why Biden sucks? Why Biden's great? Why Trump sucks? Or,

you know, something like that, or like certain religion, or we're not trying to convince you of anything really. In fact, this is honestly more of a conversation for us. And we're like, we think it'd be cool to stream it out to a bunch of people because there's a reason for me to fly out here and do that. But the purpose of this is to have an open discussion about the book, the premise of the book, like an understanding of it. And then like, honestly, we're probably going to like be in our own little world over here. And we want you guys to like interact and comment and like engage and like post your questions and we'll go back through it obviously. But like the purpose of this is not to try to convince anybody of anything. It's simply to, at least from my perspective, shed

a new perspective and like give the perspective of somebody who, for those of you that don't know who Russell is, I mean, founder of a click funnel is a billion dollar company, uh, you know, uh, SAS company, you have 400 employees, 400 employees. So like from that perspective and like, from my perspective, like to open your eyes, like a new perspective of what, like what we like, what we don't like. And like I said, more of a conversation like for us. Yeah, I think it's good. And I think, um, yeah, like, I think a big thing that we will talk about our goals not to convince you of anything in fact i think i i'm so convinced myself of both sides right like i believe both these two uh you know things that seem contradictory

but i think there's a middle ground and i'm excited to explore it so it'll be fun cool so i think we uh i think we gotta talk about the premise yeah we gotta talk about i might have a little mini statue behind me that might help yeah okay so those. Okay, so those who have not read Atlas Shrugged, I didn't know what the premise was at first, but this is the story of Atlas. So you guys know Atlas was cursed to be able to have to carry the entire weight of the universe, the entire weight of the world upon his shoulders for forever, right? And so this is where the premise of the book, like all of us, right? People who are listening to this, my guess is you are a producer, right? Otherwise, you probably wouldn't be listening to me or to Josh. Like, um, I attract, I teach,

I coach, I help producers, entrepreneurs. People are trying to change the world. Right. I'm curious how many guys have ever felt this pressure, right? When you feel like you literally have the entire weight of the world upon your shoulders. And if you haven't, like, like, like it's time to become a producer. That's first off. Second off, like I can empathize. Like there's so many times you can ask Dave or any of you guys on my team, there's days I come in and I was like, I feel like I'm gonna crack. Like there is so much weight to carry this around.

And I think, I'm guessing most of you guys have felt that. It could be with your family, it could be in work, it could be business, like whatever it is, but you felt the weight of the world, right? So this is what Atlas had to hold, right? And so the premise of the book, Atlas Shrugged, is what would happen if the producers, the um, and so the premise of the book Atlas shrugged is what would happen if the producers, the people that are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders,

what happens if they were to go on strike and they were to shrug their shoulders and be like, in fact, should I read the title you gave me? Yeah. So Josh has the gift. They gave me some amazing tiles. Uh, this is a quote from, uh, for actually from the book, uh, Atlas shrugged, um, talking about this. It says, if you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling, but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength and the greater of his efforts, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders, what would you tell him to do?

To shrug. That's the thing. It's like, what happens to society when us, the producers, when we no longer want to carry the world, we shrug and we walk away from it and um the book is is is a story about that like what happens when producers start disappearing and start leaving they start going on strike you see society what happens when the producers disappear yeah i think that's so it's interesting because there is no one named Atlas Shrugged in the book, and there's nobody named Ayn Rand in the book. And so there's concepts that she's writing about outside of that, and it's this – how do you summarize a 1,200-page book?

It's like, all right, so basically in the book there is a main character by the name of Dagny. Oh. Yes. Oh. I say the Jotham Lee Jungle. Oh, but for the first, sorry, for the first two thirds of the book, the main character is a woman by the name of Dagny. And basically, she is one of the producers of society. And she is not the head boss of the railroad, but she's like, basically,

the person that runs this railroad company. And it is written what 1950 is when this was produced. So 1950. And it's basically like this forecast into the future of a government that is basically forcing super, super strict restrictions onto private businesses and making them do things, kind of like today in America. But super, super government overreach in a lot of ways. And so Dagny is trying to keep the world afloat more or less by like getting the railroads done on time and like getting orders shipped. And I'm like super over simplifying, but like around her, all the people that she worked with,

like that owned all these other companies that like she would buy copper from her, but she would buy steel from her by the railroad track from her by the coal from like all of a sudden, like all these like head people, like imagine like people like Russell Brunson, like all his friends, like just start disappearing.

Like imagine like Elon Musk and, and Jeff Bezos and Russell Brunson, like all of them just like start start disappearing. Like imagine like Elon Musk and, and Jeff Bezos and Russell Brunson, like all of them just like start disappearing. Right. Like that's what's happening all around her. And she doesn't understand what's happening to them because just one day it's up and it's gone. And so the premise of the, like the first two thirds of the book is like showing this story of this producer who is living in this world of like super government, uh,

tyranny, like overreach. That's like super, super controlling. And she's watching all of her friends disappear and she doesn't know why we say that's a pretty good explanation of it so far and every time they disappear like ladybenton note or something that says who is john galt that's the theme throughout the book is who is john galt like who is this john galt person um that makes all the producers disappear and and every time and so and dagny has no idea who john galt is right she doesn't even know actually for a while that she, that John Galt's actually even a real person. And so once she does find out that John Galt is probably a real person, like John Galt becomes like her sworn enemy because she like, doesn't know who he is or like what he's

doing. All she knows and all she associates with is that John Galt is taking away all these producers of society. It's making her life harder because like, imagine you being an entrepreneur and like all of your entrepreneur friends that like you buy stuff from and that you send all your people to your referrals and like everything you buy all your supplies from, like imagine that like all just disappearing. And you think it's because of this one guy who's like taking them all away. And like, you don't know what's happening to them. Like, obviously they become your sworn enemy. And so if like for the first two thirds ish of the book, like that's kind of this premise of like the painting is really, really vivid story of these – what do they call them?

The great thinkers of society? Yeah, the great minds of society basically like disappearing. And Dagny and – there's a guy by the name of Hank Reardon, I think. Reardon Steele. Reardon Steele, yeah. So one of the – like Dagny and Hank Reardon are kind of like the two major ones left right before the big plot twist happens. And you're like, oh, and then you get introduced to John Galt. I want to let you explain John Galt now.

Oh, man. Hey, Funnel Hackers, let's be real. How many of you have forgotten about subscriptions and you keep paying for these things month after month after month? That was my wife and I before Rocket Money came along. Literally a couple months ago, we downloaded this app. And within minutes, we found out a whole bunch of subscriptions. In fact, we had multiple Hulu payments, multiple Disney payments from accounts that my wife had set up and I had

set up, and we weren't even using one of them. It was crazy. Okay. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps you to find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money showed us where all of our subscriptions were in one place. In fact, it was crazy how many recurring payments we had that we had completely forgotten about. With just a couple of clicks, Rocket Money canceled the ones we didn't need. And the best part is they even monitor unusual spending activity and they alert us if our bills increase. So I'm always in the loop.

Rocket Money has over 5 million users, including my wife and I, and has saved a total of over $500 million in canceled subscriptions. Saving members up to $740 per year when using all of the app's premium features. In fact, my wife and I, we literally saved over $1,000 a month when we started using Rocket App. Now, their dashboard is amazing and you get a clear view of all your expenses across every account you have.

You can even create a personalized budget with custom categories and track your monthly spending trends to stay on top of your goals. You want to save for that dream vacation or pay off some debt? Their new goals feature automatically saves money for you so you don't even have to think about it. So cancel all your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to

rocketmoney.com slash Russell today. That's rocketmoney.com slash R-U-S-S-E-L-L. That's rocketmoney.com slash Russell. Hey, funnel hackers, I want to talk about building your business. You've got the idea, the passion, the drive, but here's the thing. Setting up the legal stuff can feel like a total roadblock. That's why you need Northwest registered agent. They're like the dream team for business formation, which is 10 clicks in 10 minutes. You can build your entire business identity. I'm talking about formation paperwork, a real business address, premium mail forwarding, and even a local phone number. So you can keep your home address private and stay safe. And it doesn't stop there. Northwest is your one-stop shop for business owners. They've been doing this for nearly 30 years, and they've got the expertise

to back it up. From trademark registration to custom domains, Northwest does it all, and they do it right. You get more when you start your business with Northwest Registered Agent. Don't wait. Protect your privacy, build your brand, and set up your business in just 10 clicks in 10 minutes. Head to Northwest registered agent today and start building something amazing. Okay. So that's the first two thirds of the book, by the way, there's movies don't watch them. Yeah. Yeah. Read the book. So two thirds, two thirds in the book, she starts trying to figure out this, this mystery of who's John Galt. She ends up finding him. And, um, turns out that he has been going around and getting all these producers to go on strike.

Convinces them that like, look, it's not worth fighting for anymore. All your incentives are gone. Like, let's leave. Let's go on strike. And they leave. And they, you know, John Galt's trying to get her to leave. And she's like, I can't. I have to do everything in my power.

It's the last third of the book is her leaving John Galt's presence and going back and trying to figure out how to do this thing. And she's watching just the government regulations getting harder and harder and harder and harder to the point where everyone just has to disappear and one of the things john galt and the people say like when the lights of new york go out then we'll come back and we'll we'll rebuild society from the ground up after the looters and the the people are gone and that's basically how the book ends is the lights of new york goes to go out and and then for a lot for such a long book all of a sudden just ends you're like oh my god one more chapter come on like just end it and we're never gonna get it ah so well maybe maybe i'll write it yeah um but so like that's like

the storyline of the book but where i think we really both want to focus here is kind of premises uh and like the the overarching um ideas that like the book presents and um capitalism versus socialism and i think we'll talk religion and politics and kind of everything that's in that but i kind of want to if sorry with you like i kind of want to like turn the conversation more like towards us now just kind of like start geeking out um just about that so like guys like we'll obviously go back and by the way we want like all your comments if you're actually comment below right now. Where are you watching? Are you watching it on YouTube?

Are you watching it on Think Different Theory page? Or are you watching it on Russell's page? Comment down below. There's a link to multiple different locations. So we have a bunch of different people tuning in for everything. So just comment down below. Leave your comments. Leave your questions.

Smash the like button, love button. Share this out. And we're going to just kind of turn this here. All right, Russell. What's up? Hey, man. All right. Dude, I've been wanting to, and I hate this terminology, but just pick somebody's brain

like yours for the longest time and like this book. Oh my gosh. So give me, what do you like about the book? What was your favorite thing? Yeah. Well, let me tell you the back story. So 2008 is when the market crashed last time, right? And I didn't realize that that year, over 500,000 copies were sold organically by people

talking about it. Like talking about this is is everything she's prophesying is happening right now and so back then i remember all my entrepreneur friends like you have to read this book happy like it was the word of mouth buzz to sell 500 000 copies of a book that's been you know the the author died whatever 30 years earlier you know that there's not active marketing out there it's just it's crazy and everyone's talking about like what's happening this book has happened 2008 and it was just like it's like prophecy now it was being fulfilled and so everyone that there's not active marketing out there. It's crazy. And everyone's talking about like, what's happened in this book? It's happened in 2008. And it was just like, it's like prophecy now that was being fulfilled.

And so everyone in 2008 was telling me to read this book. I remember buying it. And I was like, this is a really, really big book. And I kept trying to get it, trying to, it took me a while to get into it. And I could never get into it. I read the first, I don't know, first two or 300 pages like four or five times.

And then finally this summer, I went on my very first trip where I didn't bring a laptop since my marriage. So my wife is very proud of me. Dang. And, uh, and so as I was leaving the office, I grabbed this book and I picked it up and I was like, I have no computer, but I got this one. And usually I bring like 20 books just cause I never know what I'm going to read. I just brought one and I'm just like, I'm going to, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be forced. I'm on a lake for a week and a half with my kids. And I can do is read this book. So I brought it at the audio book audiobook as well i'm it's funny you i do the

same way i listen audiobook and read along um yeah i can listen to it way faster that way and uh and i started going through it it took me a little while she does such a good job of character development very beginning it took a while to get into it yeah for sure it's like it's like thing after thing after thing so oh's so cool. Oh, yeah. It got crazy. And so for me, it was interesting because I think if I would have listened to it 10 years ago or read it 10 years ago, I had never experienced any of the things they talk about in this book, right? Now you don't have to worry about it. Yeah, I get better. I never experienced like government regulations and things like that, right? Or just those kinds of things. And as ClickFunnels has grown from me and Todd to, you know,

to our first member to our first 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 member, you know, 400, I don't know how many employees, a lot, 400 plus employees. As it's grown, it's been crazy because you would think that, like, all we'd be focusing on here inside of ClickFunnels is, like, the next feature in the app, the next thing, you know. And, like, there's a year where we have spent an entire year just refactoring the software for gdpr compliance we have regulations that come in on on taxes and this like just it's constant we're like most of the battles we fight click funnels right now is not about like how do we make this thing better

for the customers like how do we protect our customers from the government like it's crazy and like there's so many regulations and things and so like i've been feeling this pressure um some of you guys may have seen my uh interview i did with tony rob or not interview but uh tony robinson intervention with me last year in fiji yeah that was fascinating but oh i'm so glad we captured that like it was a uh a really cool moment in my life but if you listen in there i talked about he was like what do you want to do and i was like i don't know but i like the pressure like i love the game so i love everything i'm doing i love we're serving, but like, there's these other pressures that aren't the game that aren't the people that are just like, they get so heavy sometimes where it makes me want to just walk away.

And, um, and again, I didn't, I, you know, as I'm reading this book, you hadn't read that the book of this time ready. Yeah. Okay. As I'm reading this, when it's like, did you like, did you know anything about like, like, you know, nothing. Okay. Okay.

I didn't know what I was starting to mend. I was just like, Oh, it's Alice. I didn't know that. And it was like, when I read just like, oh, it's Atlas. I didn't know that. And it was like, when I read this title, like, what would you tell Atlas if this was happening to Shrug? And I was like, oh, that's why they call it Atlas Shrugged. And then I remember feeling like, like vividly feeling the pressure of this calling. Right.

And how heavy it is. And there's been so many times I wish like, okay, sometimes it'd be so nice to walk away or to, to Shrug or whatever. And so like, I instantly, i instantly like when dagny's character i was like i feel it with hank reardon like i i had so much empathy and like understood their characters because i feel that so many times right i just felt like hank reardon just wanted to invent his steel and put it out that's all he cared about right for me you know funnels are my art like like i can't draw but like funnels are my that's my art and entrepreneurship that's my art and so i just

want to do my art that's it like i he's to create still, and it's all these other things. And it's like, I just, I just want to do my steel. Like, how do I, you know, I just want to do my art. How do I, why don't you deal with all this other stuff? And, um, and so as I'm reading this, like I just had so much empathy for the characters cause I felt like I was the characters, even though it was weird. Cause it's railroads and stuff. I have, you know, and I'm internet, but, um,

I think that's why I really got into it. then i got just curious like like what happens like how does this story end because i'm in the middle of it and if you you know you depending who's listening you may or may not have felt some of these pressures um as you grow you feel them like like uh it's interesting as click phones is growing we talked about like like the the the pressure that that i feel today would have crushed me five years ago right and it's like as click phones is growing. We talked about like, like the, the, the pressure that, that I feel today would have crushed me five years ago. Right. And it's like, you have to go through this thing.

We build capacity, build handle next set of pressure and build capacity and build capacity. And nowadays, like stuff happens daily. That's just like, man, that would have destroyed me five or six years ago, you know?

And so I think if you guys haven't felt that as you grow, as you continue to try to like get your message out and try to grow your businesses, whatever, like the bigger you get, the more that pressure comes. Do you think so with that? And I want to continue that because it's such a good conversation, but like with that, with the pressure, the things that are happening now, like daily, that would have like wrecked you five years ago or three years ago, like whatever it was. Do you think it's good though, that, that they did

wreck you back or that, that they would have, like, is it good that at the capacity that you understood that those, you took those things things seriously then or would it have been better for you to just like be in this mindset like i know it's not possible but looking back like if you could like snap your fingers and back then would have had the mental capacity to ignore all those things and like go up with that have been a good thing or like the fact that you went through all those things is that does that help going through it is what makes you worthy of the things right you're ready for otherwise it's like lifting weights like you try to squat 800 pounds you're like that's what it feels like

right your legs buckle and you die but because you went through that things you're able to have the capacity to to hold the weight okay um yeah so it was like thing for me that was the big thing is reading this and so i was just like fascinating because i was like this is kind of my story like what how does it end how long did it take you to get through it um um i said about two months i got a lot of it down the boat and i got into biking for a little while so i was like listen to i'll be biking right it's like biking biking like one more chapter one more chapter because of it um it's funny because you know one of the one of the premises and um they don't really say they don't say greed is good but there's a chapter i think it's's called greed. And I remember if he has ever seen wall street, Gordon Gekler talks about greed is good.

And I never understood that, that premise, right? And the book, they start talking about how, how like greed is what drives this whole thing. Is it called greed? I'm trying to find it. Utopia of greed. Yeah. And then anti-greed. So utopia of greed and then anti-greed. So what's interesting is cause we're taught, all of us are taught that greed is bad, right? Like that's just like, shouldn't be greedy. that's a i think a principle that's instilled in most of us but then i think about for me when i started this business why did i start this business i want to make money yeah that's greed right you think about any of us like we go through a phase in all of our lives that the greed is the driving factor right when i wanted to become a

good wrestler i wanted to become like, I want, I want to become a good wrestler. It's greedy. I went and got coaches and spent all my time to be, and I, I became, I was in a very selfish time in my life. Not that it's bad, but it's a very greedy time, right? Kids, when they're first born, like I love my kids. They are so, they're not in a bad way, but they're greedy.

It's about them, right? Right. And it's this growth phase where growth, you have to be greedy. You're in the growth phase, right? You're trying to learn. You're being, you're sucking things in, you're learning and you're, you're not contributing it. You're just learning. You're growing. And, um, and it was interesting because as I'm going through this, I'm like, the greed is what got me into business. Right. And it's what got these things started. And then the by-product of that is jobs were created and things like all the by-product of it is like, I think in the book,

how it justifies like, like crank rear and going after you want to build it still make a bunch of money created tens of thousands of jobs and change the world and change all these things and so the the premise of the book is that greed is this driving force that gets you gets you moving and it is like if you think about any aspect of your life from sports to education to business to everything i get starts with greed now we'll go deeper in this i don't want to think that i'm just into this further because there's a transition point we'll talk about in a minute but there's a transition point from greed from growth to contribution that happens yeah but but that's in the book where i start talking about that and um i remember i was on the green belt here in boise riding my bike with james p for listening to this when i'm reading that listening

to that chapter and um and i was trying to think like is this is this true like like did i get started because of greed and it's like yeah i didn't start a business i want to change the world eventually that happened but it wasn't like it was greed was this was the driving force that that moved me forward i think it moves all of us forward such a long time and i was as i was listening as i'm riding my bike i'm like yes i understand this and then the other half of me was like i started thinking about uh my spiritual upbringing right? I'm very Christian. I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. And I, and I started thinking about Christ and his teachings, which are like, honestly the opposite of that, right? It's like really the polar opposite, which it's funny whenever you say that people are like, you know, Jesus was a socialist. I hear that a lot. I'm like,

you need to read the Bible. But anyway, but like, I think he definitely is way more liberal leaning. Right, right. And I think that that's where Republicans conservative, like traditionally, on that side of the aisle, like fiscally Republicans get into trouble is like, we're like, yeah, we're Christians, but like, we just want to get rich. And like, they never talk about like, all this stuff that like people like to use Christianity, I feel like as a a like when it's convenient and they don't we call it cafeteria christians right they pick and choose the things off the menu they want right and then then they go through and do it so i i definitely want to dive further into that but continue down that continue that yeah so that that started this question in my head though just like so is greed

bad then or is it good or like where does it fit in the whole grand scheme of things? Because it is something that's instilled in all of us from birth, right? When you're born, you're a baby. If you didn't have greed, you would just die, right? It's me, like, I need some of the food. I need food. I need love. I need shelter. Which makes you cry, which thoughts, creates people coming to you.

Like, it's greed is this driving force that's instilled in humans from birth, right? When we come here, greed is what helps us survive the first part of our life. And, um, and at first I was having this like conundrum. I'm just like, ah, like this is book evil. Like myself. Right. But I'm like, all the good things in my life that happened happened initially because of seed of greed started me on, on motion, right? Starting in momentum. And then I started thinking, uh, if you've read the expert seekers book, which if you haven't, you haven't, you must hate money. Come on. No, but in the beginning, expert secrets book, I talked about this concept as well, where as an expert, there's, there's two phases we go through. The first is a growth phase, right? Like, I want to be an expert in whatever you go through in your, your consumer, right? Consuming everything. And that's greed, right? And then there's this transition point where eventually you keep, you keep trying to grow, grow right trying to learn everything going there i'm listening to podcasts i'm reading all the books i'm growing growing growing and eventually there's this this point i remember feeling it in multiple parts of my life in wrestling i felt it

in business i felt it where where you can't continue i guess it gets hard like that your ability to grow through consumption slows to almost a halt where you can't continue to grow right and so for me it's like my, I've shared the story, I think I shared it in the book, with wrestling. It was like, I was a really good wrestler. I was a high school state champ. I took second place in the nation. I was an All-American.

And my senior year, I got invited to go to a wrestling tournament. And my wrestling, or not wrestling, a wrestling camp. My coach was like, hey, do you want to come coach wrestling this summer? And I was like, why would I do that? Like, what's in it for me? Before you go on here, I want to ask you want to ask is this so you're riding your riding your bike chapter like wrestling with this whole greed thing is this the first time that you've thought about greeting this way like it's the first time so you like and this is how long this is what six months

ago um not even that probably probably through maybe four months ago so you've built most of click funnels of what click funnels is today and now this is the first time like you're really sitting down and like wrestling with this idea of like greed and is it bad is it good like what's the balance there and stuff like that yeah that's fascinating yeah it never crossed my mind really um and then i started like it became a thing where like it bothered me because i'm like oh my gosh like i don't want to be agreed like you know i mean right and i'm like i don't feel like i am but like but i was stuck i couldn't figure that out right and so i'll rewind to the wrestling story because i think i set it up yep but um my senior year so again i i'd been growing as a wrestler i was going to camps i was getting

coaching and it was greedy right i was sucking up everyone's brain power i could and i became a really good wrestler because of it and then uh my my coach asked me to go coach at wrestling camp so i say yes go to the wrestling camp and um and i remember he's like okay i need you to teach uh my best moves is cheap like i'm really good at tilt so the rest of the other i'm really good at cheap tilts and he's like teach these kids how to do cheap tilt and i was like okay like so i walk out like 30 kids i'm like hey you do this like you just do it like that and they all grab they all look at me and they go try and they try to do cheap tilt they all just fall apart and like you're so dumb it's not that hard i'm like hey you do this like you just do it like that and they all grab they all look at me and they go try and they try to do cheap tilt and they all just fall apart and like you're so dumb it's not that hard i'm like get back in come back in no you did it all wrong that's how you do i

show them again like go do it they go back out nobody can do it and then also i'm like gosh like they're missing something what is this i haven't come back in i start breaking down like hey for the move to work like your hips have to be here your legs have to be here i start walking through all the things and as i'm doing that i start realizing like oh the reason why i'm able to do this because of this i started realizing what i was doing as i was teaching people as i taught it to people then then the kids started doing it and they got better and better and also i started realizing like oh my gosh like this movement works because of this and now that i was aware of the like the situation now i was able to like make these tweaks and stuff on my own and and like i realized that by coaching

other kids i like that was the next level growth it was the shift from like selfish greed growth to contribution and so after i started coaching camps every year and that's how i started um i went from like slowing down my progression to like all of a sudden it sped back up again by shifting from growth to contribution okay and so i think the same thing happens in business right i got in business because that seed of greed is in us. It gets us moving, gets us into momentum. And some people never get out of that. Some people live their entire lives chasing greed and they die. And it's, it's a tragedy, right? But I think for most people, there's this transition point. I don't know where it happens, happens different spots for everyone, where all of a sudden you realize you make the money,

you start the business and you realize how unfulfilling that is, right? You're tapping out. You're like, I'm not growing anymore. i thought i wanted money but i don't i want growth like that's what we're here on this planet for us to get us to grow as humans right you don't get that and also you realize money's not fulfilling but then you start help you start seeing the other people you're contributing to how you're helping and then it shifts to like you know we hear people talk about like it's an impact about growth it's about helping other people and like that's that transition that's charity love that's pure love of christ right it's that transition but greed is the seed that gets us moving right and so there's this there's this like this handoff

it doesn't happen all the time and just quick are you guys cool if i get like like share scripture stuff because like all this stuff is scriptural like it's not just they don't get to decide russ i like it's my podcast we need scriptures close to decide russell it's my podcast close your ears because i wrote down some scripture like this is a scripture so because it it it illustrates this point like i think it's so good also i just want to say russell vox me and he said that this is the first episode of a podcast that he's ever prepared for and i just feel like when you said that i'm like ha i was the first for something for Russell. Let's go. I want to be ready. Okay. So this is the scripture.

It says for the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever. I'm sorry. Their case, natural man's enemy. God, why is that? We're born. We have this greed inside of us. So we're the natural human is the enemy of God because we're chasing after greed.

Right. But, but, but God gives us that seed because this creates momentum it creates motion it creates us doing something right and then it says in here it says for the natural man's enemy god has been for the fall of adam will be forever and ever and then this is this is the transition point unless he yields to the enticings of the holy spirit so he'll be like he's greedy forever right forever ever unless he yields the enticings of the holy spirit and put us off the natural man and become with the saint through the atonement of christ the lord and become with as a child submissive meek humble patient full of love willing to submit to all things which the lord sees fit to inflict upon him even as a child that's meant to his father so growth is the seed

it's the natural man it's the thing we have that it's good right god gives it to us because it gets us to do stuff gets us to learn it gets us us to not die in our crib because we need love and attention and get fed, right? It's the thing that gets us off our butts, off the couch. It's us being producers that gets us moving. And if we're not careful though, the natural man will destroy us. Like you see so many people who have made tons of money and they destroy themselves and their lives because they don't do that second thing, which is unless he yields the enticing Holy Spirit, that's the thing saying, this is not about money. This is about the impact.

Look at the people you're changing. And it shifts, right? If you make that shift, and all of a sudden now, the senior creating is not about greed. It's like, oh my gosh. Like I remember for ClickFunnels, like when I had that transition,

it's like when I started seeing Brandon and Caleb Pohl, and I started seeing the ripple effect of their business. I started seeing like, and I can name hundreds of people, like person after person after person. I was like, this isn't about money. This is about the ripple effect of what we've created. Each person's live.

And like, now that's charity. That's love. That's like, now the mission isn't about money. Like we don't care about them. I, we keep score with money, but like that's the mission is the people's lives and the impact. And I think that's that transition where it's like greed is the thing that gets us moving. But if we don't have that, I think that's happened in the book.

We talked about like, you said this in my house earlier, like a lot of people in the books seem like they have a miserable wife. And it's like, yeah, because they'd never yielded to the spirit. Like they never made that shift. It was all greed to the point where they let everything collapse as opposed

to like, yeah. So one of the things about the book and I'm, I'm sitting on the plane, like on the way over here and I'm like, how do I articulate this? Cause that's always the hardest thing. Like you have this idea in your head and you're like how do i get it out and explain it

in a way that somebody else can be like yes i understand that but like most and i'm gonna go kind of political here for a second i'm gonna like bring it back to specifically to the book so like i am pretty vocally a conservative right i'm a blatant trump supporter uh very much so uh conservative when it comes to everything fiscal. But I call myself a libertarian because I actually think that I lean left on a lot of social issues. Like I am – I think the government should stay out of gay marriage, right? Like there's a lot of things that I like lean left on. But when it comes to like money and like finances and like things like that, like I lean to the right. But like the reason I lean to the right

and I typically go with the right is because like, I like what the left is trying to do in concept, right? It's like, okay, there's a bunch of like people that are really truly in need. Like I agree. We like, we need to help them. Problem is, is that the way they go about doing it, I like so radically disagree with it. It's like against everything I stand for. Right. I'm like, it's not that I disagree with what you want to do is I disagree with how you want to do it. What's interesting is I feel like in this book, I feel like it's like the opposite. I actually don't agree with why they're doing it. Like this concept of like, I mean, Hank Reardon says it like over and over again, like everything that I do is for profit. That is it. That is,

it is not for you even Even to his friends, right? Like he took a bullet for John Galt, right? Like he gets shot and like John Galt thanks him for it. He goes, you know, I only did it because it's what I wanted to do, right? Like literally like saves a guy's life. He's like, so it's like, it's all about what he wants and only for him and that's it.

And it's like profit and money and dollars. It's not about everything that he helps. And I'm like, I disagree with that premise. Like I don't, but the, what that leads to, I actually do like. And I feel like it's flipped compared to like the world that like I'm living in now. It's like half the stuff that the Democrats or, I hate to, I don't do politics so bad,

but like left and right. The left, yeah, the left. Guys, we're going to say left and right, generalized here, all right? Oh my God. But like, generally speaking. And so when and right generalized here. All right. Oh my God. But like, generally speaking. And so when it comes to like the whole, the whole greed issue, I'm like, it's interesting to hear your perspective.

Like, cause I never, even throughout the book, I'm like, greed is a bad thing. And like hearing your perspective and like, like, you know what it says? I'm like, okay. Like, I understand what you're saying, but like what, like, is it greed or is there some other driving? Like if I were to ask you a year ago, right. When were you in like the heart of ClickFunnels? Like a year and a half ago, two years?

Like there was a time of your life with all you, I don't know. All you do is ClickFunnels. But like when like six years of my life, but like, but you know what I mean? Like, wasn't there like a year or two period in there? Like in the growth phase where it was like a hundred percent of everything you do is like ClickFunnels, ClickFunnels, ClickFunnels. It felt like you were going nonstop. It feels like you're a little bit more balanced now.

Maybe not, but like from the outside, from the side of looking at a desk. Anyway. Hey, funnel hackers, let me paint you a picture. You're running a business. Your funnel's finally converting like crazy and suddenly it hits you. You need to hire someone like yesterday.

Maybe it's a copywriter to help you crank out more sales pages or a designer to refresh your landing pages or someone to do customer support to help you to handle your growing audience. The problem is you're swamped and you don't have weeks to shift through resumes. So what do you do? You turn to Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all that you need. They make it fast, simple, and

super effective. Stop struggling to get your job seen on those other job sites that bury your listing. With Indeed's sponsored jobs, your post jumps straight to the top of the page so that the right candidates see it first. It's just like pulling your job out on a billboard for the exact person you need to hire. And it works. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more application than non-sponsored jobs. Now here's the best part. With Indeed, there's no monthly subscription, no long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And let me tell you how fast this platform is. Literally in the time that we've been talking right now, 23 people have been hired on Indeed worldwide. Imagine finding your dream hire while your competitors are still waiting through job boards and job boards that don't deliver. So here's what you need to do right now.

Go to indeed.com slash clicks right now and get a $75 sponsored job credit board to boost your post visibility. That's indeed.com slash clicks. Support the show, save time and find your next hire faster. Remember when it comes to time, and find your next hire faster. Remember, when it comes to hiring, Indeed is all that you need. All right, funnel hackers, listen up. It's 2025, and let me ask you, are your B2B ads actually driving results, or are they getting lost in the noise? You and I both know the pain of running campaigns that fall flat because they aren't seen by

the right people. But here's the game changer, LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn isn't just another ad platform.. But here's the game changer. LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn isn't just another ad platform. It's the place where professionals live. I'm talking about the decision makers you dream about working with CEOs, VP, C-suite powerhouses, 130 million of them all in one place. And LinkedIn gives you the laser sharp targeting to reach them by job title company and even industry. Imagine how your business could scale if your message hits the right inboxes every time. Now here's the kicker. LinkedIn delivers up to five times higher

ROAS than other platforms. Yeah, you heard me right. Five times more return on every ad dollar. And that's because LinkedIn's professional environment is made for people who actually take action. This isn't where people scroll mindlessly. This is where they're making decisions. So stop playing small because it's time to level up. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. And to get started, LinkedIn is offering you a hundred dollar credit for your next campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash clicks to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash clicks. Terms and conditions may apply. LinkedIn is the place to be to be. Yeah. Like during that time, like of growing click funnels, but like before you read

that, would you have described yourself as greedy? No. What would you have described yourself as? What's that word? Um, I don't know. Uh, that's a good question. Like I was always trying to create stuff, like it's art for me. Right. So it's like, I was trying to create stuff. Um, but I think initially I was creating for myself as opposed to like, Oh my gosh, I create this for myself, but look what happens to the people. What point was that shift for you though? I think it, I mean, you can actually, you can see it in my marketing, by the way. And by the way, for those who are greedy capitalists,

who only care about money, like it actually is a better marketing way too. Like my marketing went from- For all you greedy capitalists out there, switch to being a contributor to make more money. Well, think about like my marketing was always like, here's Russell, here's how much money my funnel made. Here's how much that, you know, it was me talking about me all the time

and i realized it's like this like who cares about me like i don't care about me like let me show you what this person did like let me show you all the results of of of people we're serving like what's happening there which first off is a better marketing second off it's like it's that transition transition where i was literally like everything i've accomplished is stupid like what they're doing like that's the real like what're doing, like that's the real, like what we're doing, like that's the thing that's amazing, right? Like that's the spiritual side of it. That's the thing where it's like the, the, the thing that got you into motion now is,

is doing good in the world. And like, when you start seeing that, it's like, oh my gosh, like that, that's so much more fulfilling and so much more exciting. And you know, people ask me the last six years, like, why do you keep getting up? Do you need more money? I'm like, no, like getting up. But I can tell you a hundred stories of people who literally like the ripple effect of like how many lives they've changed because I did my thing, right?

Like Jamie, we, uh, we made a documentary of the two comic club and Jamie cross has this whole part of it where she's bawling her eyes out. And she said, where would my family be if Russell wouldn't have fulfilled his God given calling? And like, every time I see that, I start bawling myself, Mike mike like that's why eventually you start doing it right but when did that shift happen i don't know it wasn't like a day that just happened it just it just um the energy of it shifted right it was just it was like i don't know it was just it gradually kind of happened what's that yeah dave dave come on in dave's got, Dave's here. Dave, take the mic here.

This is honestly, I think this has been one thing. It's been fun for me to watch Russell from, from the sidelines here. Yeah. I think honestly, it was your dad's 60th birthday. And I don't even know. Three, four years ago, probably. But it was, it was the reflection on that. And it was the difference from having your hand raised versus,

because you remember you tell the story. Russell's a much better storyteller. I'll, I'll see the thought, but I'll let hand raised versus, because I remember you. Yeah, I don't tell that story. Ross is a much better storyteller. I'll see the thought, but I'll let him finish. All right. Thank you, Dave. Interesting. Guys, we have a live audience here. So my dad turned 60, and we have our little family reunion every year we do.

And so it was during his birthday. And I remember my mom gave him $60, $6, $10 bills. And so I just gave him one at a time. So, okay. The first decade was like one to 10, like, tell us something you remember about that. He's like, I don't remember anything back then. The second one, he's like 10 to 20. That's when I was a wrestler. Like, you know, it was so much fun for me. And then 20 to 30, it was like, okay, that's when like, I was starting my business, trying to figure things out and trying to get our family stable 30 to 40. Like that's when my kids were wrestling and i was i was coaching him and then 50 to 60 kind of went through everything and then after it was done i asked myself that of all the decades like what when was the the best

for you thinking in my world like the best was going to be like when he was a wrestler because i was like for me the greatest part of my life was like when i was wrestling and my dad said the greatest decade is when i got to coach you um And I remember, yeah, I remember, I forgot that story until Dave said that. But I remember coming back and telling Dave and other people that like, I always thought like the best part was being the all-star. My dad, the best part was like coaching other people. That was a good interaction there, Dave. Which was really cool.

Hey, everybody, this is Russell again. And really quick, I just opened up a texting community, which means you can text me your questions. And right now I'm spending anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes every single day answering questions through text message to people who are on the podcast. And so I wanted you to stop everything you're doing, pull your phone out and actually text me a message, okay?

And the phone number you need to text is 208-231-3797. Once again, it's 208-231-3797. When you text me, just say hello. And then what's going to happen is they'll add you to my phone and then they'll send you back a message where you can add me to your phone. And then we can start having conversations. On top of that, through this texting community is where I'm going to be giving out free swag, giving away free copies of my book, let you know about book signings, about times I'm coming to your local area, and a whole bunch more. So I want to make sure you are on this list. On top of that, every single day I'm sending out my favorite quotes, my favorite frameworks,

and things you can get for free only through my texting platform. So what you need to do right now is pull out your phone and text me at area code 208-231-3797. One more time, that's 208-231-3797. I can't wait to hear from you right now.