The Russell Brunson Show - What's the ACTUAL ROI from Podcasting (Answer Will SHOCK You!)

Episode Date: November 17, 2021

With everything we have to do... does podcasting really make sense? Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ClubHouseWithRussell.com ---Transcript--- Russell Brunson: What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We've got three special episodes for you. The first one, well, actually all three of them are with my guest host, Josh Forti. We're going to be breaking down some cool things. The first episode... What happened in the first episode? It was really good. Josh Forti: Yeah. We talked all about podcasting, why podcasting is important. Russell: Yeah, podcasting. So episode number one, we learned about podcasting, why we do it, how we do it, the reasons behind it, and a whole bunch of other things. If you haven't been doing a podcast yet, it's going to sell you on why you need to do one. If you have done one, it's going to show you guys why and how to amplify it, and why it's so important and how to find your best buyers from it. I hope you guys enjoy this episode. We'll cue up the theme song, and we'll be right back. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Like I said today, the next actually couple episodes, I've got a guest host with me, which I'm pumped for. We actually did two podcasts. Well, technically, they were podcasts episodes for your podcast, right? Josh: Yeah. Russell: And I ripped them off for my podcast because they turned out so good. One is after the Atlas Shrugged book, Josh Forti flew out, and we did... How long? We went for... Josh: It was three and three and a half hours. Yeah. Russell: Three hours. Yeah. Josh: Three and a half hours, yeah. Russell: Going deep into Atlas Shrugged, which was really fascinating. I actually just reread it recently, so if you want to do Round Two, we should totally do that. And then, after I read Atwood and the devil book, I freaked out, and then Josh flew out and we did one there. So you guys who have been listening to the podcast are familiar with him and his voice. But I asked him, I love doing the podcast, but sometimes I fall behind, and my brother who does our podcast settings, "Russell, any episode today?" I'm like, "Huh." I don't even know what to think. I want someone to help come up with ideas so it's not just me. And so Josh went out to the community, asked a bunch of questions and the next couple episodes are going to be some fun conversations. So I'm pumped, man. And thank you for doing this. I know this you're doing this pro bono to hang out and just to help me out, so I appreciate that. And I'm excited to find out what people want to know about. Josh: Yeah, for sure. I love podcasting. That's my life. If I could do one thing, it would just be, have a show that we just talk all the time. So this is fun for me. It's like asking you to come hang out and geek out about funnels. So I'm super excited, though. It's going to be super cool, and dive in further, and pick your brain, and open up a new world that I don't think a lot of people get to see. Russell: Yeah. It's interesting, because I feel that when it's me doing my own podcast, I pick a topic, I go into it. But it's fun when... Yesterday I had a chance to speak at a virtual event thing, and I did my thing and in the end people ask questions. It just opens up a different side that you don't normally do. And so I don't do a lot of Q&A stuff. So I'm excited to... Josh: Yeah. It's interesting. Russell: And maybe this is the only time we do this. Maybe it's a huge train wreck, and this is the only time it happens. Or maybe it becomes a thing. We'll find out. Josh: We'll try to make it not a train wreck. We'll try. We'll do our very best. I think one of the big things though that I want to start with and kick this whole thing off is why you spend so much time with podcasting. Because here's the thing, man. You're rich. We all know it. You don't have to do this. You have this company that you could. We all learned at funnel hacking live, you turned down a billion dollar offer, so clearly you're not doing this for the money. And you've got a company. You've got a team. You've got all these resources. You could spend money on ads. You could do whatever it is that you want. Yet, somehow you are calling me up and are like, "Dude, I need to do podcasts." And to somebody who gets it, and I get it. I have a podcast. I dedicate time when it doesn't make sense. I put money into a podcast that doesn't make sense. On paper, I get and I understand content and putting it out there, and I've never been at your level either. I don't think a lot of people understand. Why do you do it, dude? Why a podcast? And why are you investing so much of the time that you have now, which is limited, I'm sure? There's a lot of people trying for your attention. Why a podcast? And why is that such a core, fundamental piece that you actually spend so much time on, when you clearly don't have to? Russell: I could probably, in fact, I'll probably give you four or five reasons, because there's not just one reason. There's a lot of them. And I actually, I remember when podcasting started. I was at at Armand Morin's BigSeminar, and someone was on stage, Paul Collier was on stage. He's like, "There's this thing coming. It's going to be the greatest thing in the world. It's called podcasting. And you're going to put these things in your ears and listen to people talk." I remember, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. No one will ever listen to that." I just didn't get it. He's like, "No, this is the future." And I remember because I was my roommate at the time was Josh Anderson, some of you may know Josh, and Josh went and bought every podcast domain he could think of. And I was like, "You're dumb. That's never going to happen." But I do remember, "Well, if I ever did a podcast, I'd call it the Marketing In Your Car Podcast, because when I drive my car, I could record it. And I remember thinking that. And I remember I bought, at the time, Marketing In Your Car, and I did nothing with it for, I don't know, eight or nine years. I just had it. In fact, I even paid someone to write an intro song for it. So if you ever go back to the first episodes, the first hundred-something episodes, there was this really... At the time it was so cool, and now it's corny, but there was this theme song that some guy wrote for me. And I had it for five years, this theme song, and I never used it because I was like, "I don't get podcasting." Then in my business life, we had grown up my company at the time. We had a hundred employees. And then, the long story you guys have heard before, is the company crashed. Everything fell around, and it went from a 20,000 square foot office to 2000 square foot office. I felt like an idiot. I was embarrassed. My status was at an all time low. I was weird. And for some reason in that season of my life, I had this impression, "You need to start podcasting and talk about marketing." And I was convinced at this time I was the worst marketer in the world, because I had just crashed my entire empire. I'm an idiot. I didn't want to, but I felt this impression like now it's time to start a podcast. So I literally, from the ashes of my business, started this podcast, and I had at that time a four or five minute drive to the office. Okay, I can be consistent with this. It's going to happen all the time. I'm going to do it. So I got my phone out, I clicked record, and I would literally just drive to my office and I would just talk about what we were trying to figure out. "All right. Today, we're going in the office and working on this new offer, and this is what we're thinking and da, da, da." And then the next steps were, "Oh, we launched the offer and it worked." Or it didn't work. So we tried this. It was just me documenting. It's funny. I heard Vaynerchuk talk about, "Document your journey." And I didn't know. That wasn't a thing at the time, but that's literally what I started doing. And it was nice, because it was something that was so easy. It was easy to be consistent with. I think if I would have had to do a podcast where, for me, if I had a studio and a microphone, all those things, I probably wouldn't have done it because I wouldn't have gotten enough momentum to stick with it. But it was easy. And at first the way we set it up, we couldn't track stats, so we had no idea if anyone was listening, which was a huge benefit. Because had I known how few people were listening, I probably wouldn't have kept doing it. But I just kept doing it and doing it, not really knowing what kind of return was going to happen. It's funny now. I had someone, about a year ago, go through and start from the very beginning and listen all the episodes. I was trying to get some notes and trying to remember. And it was cool, because they started coming back, reporting. He's like, "Did you know on this day you talked about why you thought anyone who wanted to build a company over 10 million dollars in sales was a moron? You should never try to grow company that big. And then over here you talked about, you're never going to hire an employee again." All my thoughts at the time, which have morphed and shifted obviously. But it's this cool thing where I have this record now of this journey from the ashes to ClickFunnels and beyond. So it's been very special for me. Josh: Okay. Sorry. I want to continue down that path, I want to interject right there. The reason I started a podcast is because, literally, you told me to. You didn't physically be like, "Josh, start a podcast." But all your books, all your content, you're like, "Publish, publish, publish, publish, publish." And I'm like, "Okay." And so it started on Facebook. It started on Facebook Live, and then it grew. And then my friend Daxy, he is like, "Dude, turn it into a podcast. Way more people would listen." All right. So I have, I don't know, four or five hundred episodes now on my podcast that I have done with you and all these different interviews or whatever. But what I tell people is, and this is true in all areas of my life, I'm so blatantly honest on my podcast. I don't filter or mince my words at all. Shocking. Russell: You're filtered on Facebook and Instagram, you're telling me? Josh: Just a little bit. But what's interesting is one of the things that you pointed out there was you have this document. You have this record of exactly where you were at at the time. And so for me, one of the things... And this is bigger than just podcasting. When you're just blatantly honest with yourself and where things are at, and you just turn on the microphone and you just talk, you actually can go back and you can watch your progress. And you can see. Oh man, when I was 26 years old, when this happened, this is what I thought about life, or this is what I thought about this particular topic, or this is what I was learning here. When I'm building a funnel or I'm building something that I knew I worked on in the past and I talked about it, I can literally go back, and I can remember the struggles. And I think it was you. It might have been. It might have not been you. It might have been Gary. I think it was you, though. You were like, "Imagine if Jeff Bezos would've documented every single day or every single week building Amazon." How much people would pay for that. That would be so epically cool. That's what it's like. So I totally understand what you're talking about there. I feel like people are embarrassed to start, they're embarrassed where they're at now. And so they don't want to put it out there. I'll never forget Liz Benny. Obviously, you know Liz. She's amazing. I had her on my podcast. This is probably a year and a half ago. And she's like, "Josh, I've watched you grow so much." And I'm like, "Really?" She's like, "Oh yeah." I'm like, "How do you know?" She's like, "Because I listen to your podcast." And it was like, "Oh, this is a long term thing." It was at that moment that I realized it. Russell: Uh huh. For sure. It's interesting because, if I haven't publicly talked much about this yet, but I've been acquiring old books. I just bought this whole, literally, library of Napoleon Hill books and stuff. And it's been so fascinating because I'm reading through and these are the records of these people and their beliefs and their thoughts. I've got old magazines from early 1900s, late 1800s. I'm reading. I found articles from Thomas Edison, who were in the publishing these. I'm reading this stuff and it's so cool. And one thing, this is Russell guilt. In the Mormon church one thing they always talk about is, you need to keep a journal, so that way your posterity has this thing. And I've never been good at keeping a journal. And what I started realizing as I'm going through all the Napoleon Hill stuff, I'm so grateful that they wrote these things down and they have this journal. And I started from that guilt again. And all of a sudden I was like, "Wait a minute. I don't have a journal, but I've been podcasting now for seven years." This is my record. This is, when I'm dead, my kids or my grandkids or my posterity or people, whoever it is. This is how they're going to learn about me and figure out who I was. And hopefully I shortcut them some trial and error. Here's the journey I went on, but here's what I figured out. I can help them. I think all of us are always talking about wanting to leave an impact. I think my podcast episodes, I'm hoping these are my journals. These are my records. This is like what I just bought from Napoleon Hill. I'm hoping that this becomes something for the future generations that they can build their businesses off and their ideas and their plans. Because my podcast is... It's a marketing podcast, but I don't talk about marketing most of the time. I talk about my family and my kids, and I'm learning, and my personal development and all the things. Marketing is just the hook I got people in, but it's my life record. It's my journal, which is cool too. Josh: Yeah, that is super cool. It's funny. Quick side note, we have to shut down this indifferent theory, because Apple.... Russell: Just spell it different. Josh: Yeah. Believe me. We've tried some things. I'm not trying to push against the biggest company in the world. So anyway, we have a new name. I'm not going to say it yet, but it's coming. But anyway, in the last just couple weeks, I've had to pause doing podcasts. And it's weird because what you said right there is, "I don't keep a journal." But I know that I do keep a journal via that exact same thing. And it was weird. I went to my wife literally two days ago. And I was like, "I need you to, to help me create a system for the short term to be able to document my thoughts because right now I'm not doing it. And I have so many things that we're going through right now." So I totally get that. But I feel like there's got to be more than that. There's got to be another reason besides just the documentation process for the podcast for you. Russell: For sure. That's the first thing. Again, I got four or five that run in my head, so I don't know what the order they'll come out in. But the next one is eventually I wrote a book. And people were like, "These books are so good. How do you know all these stories?" And for me, I have an idea, and the idea percolates in my head for a minute, and I got to tell someone. So usually first person I tell is usually the podcast. I'm thinking about this thing and I talk about it. And so I tell the story the first time. The first time it may not even be that fleshed out. Then I get to the office and I see Dave over there. Dave's excited. I'm like, "Dave, check this out." And I tell it to him again. And then I tell someone else. And then I'm doing an interview and I say it again. And I tell the story four or five, six times, and I get better and better at telling the story. And then when I'm at a seminar and I'm on stage and I'm talking. I have no idea which direction I'm going. All of a sudden, this thing will pop up my head. I've told that story six times three months ago, and it appears. I remember Tony Robbins told me this. He said, "When I go on stage, I have a plan, but the plan, it never goes to plan. I start talking." And then he's like, "These downloads just come from God or from the universe, and they just show up." And for me, as I started podcasting and telling these stories over and over and over again, that's exactly what happens now. When I need something, I'm in a situation, I'm coaching someone, I talking, I'm on an event or a stage or something. I need something often that just, it appears when I need it. And I think it's because I didn't just think about it and forget about it. I think about it. I tell it on a story. It's published. I tell someone else. And then when I write a book, I've told the story 400 times. I know the best way to tell the story now. I've seen what people laugh at, what they don't laugh at, how to do it the right way. In fact, it's interesting, my next book is a personal development book. I've struggled with that one, because I don't have a personal development podcast. And I haven't tested these stories, these principles or these theories. I've been stuck, as you know. I sent you the rough draft eight months ago, and I haven't written a word since then. Part of it is I haven't had a chance to flesh these things out. So it gives me idea to flush out my ideas is another one of them. Another one that's interesting... I don't know the exact stats, but I read it somewhere. I think I talked about on Traffic Secrets.I put it in there. But conceptually, they talked about people who are podcast listeners versus the rest of humanity. And I'm going to tell you about the stat, and I'll tell you how the practical application of that stat, which is really fascinating. So the stat was something like the average person who listens to the radio makes, I don't know, $60,000 a year. And whereas the average podcast listener makes $120,000 a year. So the people you are getting and acquiring, they are people with more spending power. They're more affluent people that are the kind of people who are trying to develop their brain, their minds, things like that. They're more likely to buy a course or software or a Mastermind or things like that, because they're the kind of people who aren't just listening to the radio to numb themselves. They're listening to audio to grow. That's the fascinating thing that you're getting a better caliber customer who are listening. Number two, you are getting them in their most intimate moments. When do you listen to a podcast? It's when I'm working out and I'm by myself and it's me and them, and I have their full attention. I'm not listening to a podcast where I'm writing an email or texting someone. Or I'm in the car driving. I'm getting access to their brains and their minds in their most intimate moments. But it's just me and them. Even video. Josh: It's not even like that on YouTube either. Russell: Yeah. I'll watch a YouTube video while I'm cooking dinner, while I'm doing five other things. Josh: That's super interesting. Russell: I don't listen to podcasts with my kids in the room, because they're going to ask me a question. They're going to mess it up. It's when I'm separate and it's just me and them and that's it. I have a different level of intimacy with the podcast people that I'm listening to. So the higher quality customers, better level of intimacy, and then the practical application. The first time I really got this, it was after I launched my Inner Circle the very first time. And again, it was funny, because I always told everybody I never money on my podcast. I’m doing this podcast, I'm not making any money from it… And as I did it for four or five years, and I launched my first version of my first version of my Inner Circle, and we had a point where we had about 33 people in it paying 25 grand. And I remember at one of the events, somebody asked, "How did you guys bump into Russell?" And all of them were like, "Oh, I saw something, but then I got on this podcast, and I listened to him every single day while I was working out for six months. And he kept talking about this Inner Circle and talking about this thing. He's going to get all these things." And it was fascinating. Almost everyone in the room, they didn't hear about my podcast. Podcast isn't good for lead gen. It's never. Josh: Yeah. It's horrible for lead gen. Russell: You can't just buy ads and blow up your podcast. But people find out about you. They plug in to your podcast. And the people who make that transition from, "I saw a book." "I saw an ad." "I saw something." And they make that transition where they actually get the phone out, subscribe, and then plug you in. Those become your best customers, your highest buyers. They're the best. And so the practical application is yes, by doing this podcast, I'm taking... And I talk about this in Expert Secrets. And actually my Inner Circle meeting last month, we talked a lot about this. We talked about creating a new opportunity versus an improvement offer. And for the most part you want to create new opportunities. That's what gets people in the door. And I told everyone, your value ladder should be this new opportunity. There's opportunity stacking. The back of the value ladder, there's one section that's saved for people with ambition. New opportunity is all about getting people who have a desire to come in. But people with ambition, and the percentage of your audience is small. The percentage of people who have true ambition, it might be 15 to 20%, maybe. Josh: Yeah. Russell: But those are your most ambition. I told them my Master, I didn't sell you guys new opportunity. Do you want to come to Boise and talk to other entrepreneurs? Or are you going to get better and stronger and smarter, all the ER words? You guys are the ones at the top of the value ladder. You are ambitious. So I'm not selling you new opportunity. I'm selling you guys improvement. And it's the hardest thing to sell, but it's what one tier of your audience wants. I feel like same thing, the people who are listening to your podcasts, these are the people who want improvement. These are the ambitious ones. They're not the tire kickers. And so it's the best way to convert people in their highest ticket backing things as well. Josh: Yeah. And I also think, one thing that's very important to point out, I think here, is the style slash type of podcast that you particularly create. Because I've studied a lot of different podcasts. Joe Rogan obviously is a big inspiration of mine when it just comes to creating content or whatever. But what's interesting is that the type of content that a Joe Rogan creates, or that even a Logan Paul or any of the bigger mainstream podcasts, oftentimes it's much more for entertainment. And Joe Rogan, I think, maybe is the blend between the two. But a lot of podcasts, they're not specifically for solving a very specific problem. And so what I always say about specifically the type of podcast that you create, you or Steve or whatever, your type of podcast is horrible for lead generation, but is amazing for lead education. It's because once they're in there, you have that. And what's interesting is one of the times that I listened to your podcast most... I'm going to let you guess. I'm sure you're not going to get it. But what do you think one of the times I listened to your podcast most? Russell: When you're driving somewhere in your car. Josh: That's a time. Yeah. But it's when I'm in pain. When I have a specific pain around my funnel, I will literally go, "Russell has this podcast. He's got all these episodes. I bet you he's talked about it." And so I'll literally go on my phone and I'll keyword search for different things. And I'll specifically go. There was one time I was listening to, it was something about a webinar or something, and you were talking about how you wrote your headlines and basically how you came up with your framework for it. And I remember you did that one time. And so I was struggling with it, and so I literally searched it and I did it. And so the type of podcast that you create, in my head there's two different ones. There's one for entertainment. And then there's one for education. And you create one specifically for education. And when you do that, that's the type of podcast or that's the type of content that literally goes and educates your member. And when you have that, a hundred percent, my top buyers, anybody that gives me top dollar for my stuff, they all listen to my podcast or have been on my podcast and I'll pull something out of it. They're always the ones that pay the most money. For sure. Russell: For sure. It's interesting too. And there's, as you said, a lot of formats. When I did mine, I did a short form for a couple reasons. Number one is it was my drive to the office, so that's how it started. But number two, I love Joe Rogan and I probably listen to one of his entire podcast ever. Josh: Oh my gosh. I probably listen to a hundred of them at least. Russell: And I get overwhelmed, because each one's four hours long and there's all these different people. Everyone keeps talking recently about the Jewel one. "It's the greatest thing in the world. You've got to listen to it." Four hours. I could get a whole audio book, the entire book done in four hours. Is that worth the investment? I don't ever want to dive into it, because it's so big. Whereas mine, again, someone's in the car and only got a 10 minute commute. Boom. Throw it in. They get an episode. And then what happens is they get hooked, and then they'll listen for four hours. So it's different though, because if Joe Rogan's were broken up into even 20 minute blocks, I would probably listen to all of them. Josh: YouTube Joe Rogan clips. It's Joe Rogan experience clips. And it's literally 20 minute episodes. Russell: Oh cool. Josh: So if you ever want to. Russell: That's probably what I would do. And I think it's interesting. And then also another nice thing about short form is people come in, they listen to one... And I get this all the time. People are like, "I got your podcast, listened to three or four episodes, and I loved it. So I started at the very beginning and I binge-listened to all of them." It happens all the time as well. Whereas Joe Rogan, you're not going to binge-listen because that's 65 years worth of content you're going to go through. Mine, they're short. I'm going to go to the beginning. And they start and they binge listen. And then they've gone through your journey with you. And by the time they show up, they know everything that you've ever said. And they're so much easier to work with if they've got that stuff. I think everyone needs... It's one of the things where you're not going to see a big return or not initially. But over time, if you're consistent with it, it's the best thing. And then obviously, I don't use my platform for this, but you do and I think it's brilliant. It gives you access to all these people. Whereas the interviewing people, you get access to people you can't otherwise. Josh: Doors open that you literally can't even understand simply because you're like, "Hey, I have a podcast and hey, I've got these couple other cool players on here. You want to come?" Alex Hormozi is coming on my podcast. I literally reached out to him, "I have a podcast." And a hundred percent, I'm going to admit something to you right now. I was like, "Hey, I had a podcast, and Russell's been on a couple times. You want to come on?" He's like, "I love Russell. Of course I'll come on your show." Russell: That's awesome. Josh: Crazy big doors that get open simply because you have a platform to be able to allow someone to use their voice as well. Russell: I remember, before Tony and I were super close, we met a couple times and stuff, but I remember he was doing some launch. I remember Lewis Howes and him did a big interview. And three or four people they interview sound so annoying. Why is Tony hanging out with these people and not me? And now all of a sudden, I had the ahas. "Lewis Howes has got a big podcast. Oh my gosh. Okay, I need to be able to offer my platform to him to get in that door and really build that relationship." And that's one of the powers of it too. You have a platform, now you've got ability to access people you can't otherwise. As you know. Josh: All right. Two rapid fire questions here really quick. Because I want to move on to the next topic to keep us on track. But number one, what's the Joe Rogan episode that you listened to all the way through? Do you remember which one it was? Russell: Oh, I do know. Yeah. And I actually hate that I listened this one. It was the Gary Vee one. Josh: Oh. Yeah. Russell: And the reason why I listened, because I want to be on Joe Rogan's podcast someday. And I want to see what Gary talked about because... As you know, Gary and I have a... He probably has idea who I am. Josh: You have a light beef. Russell: We've got an interesting relationship. He's not my... Anyway. I've got to make sure I'm the next internet marketer who actually does a better job. Josh: Okay. Two things on that. One, anybody listening, I'm going to do this, so don't take it, but I'll beat you to it. If you ever can get Russell Brunson on Joe Rogan, that's a great Dream 100 gift right there. That would be amazing. Secondly, I've listened to so many episode of Joe Rogan. One of my favorite ones is actually with Kanye. I know everyone thinks Kanye's an idiot. But if you can, that's five hours. It's insane. It's one of the most intense episodes I've ever listened to. But one that is a must-listen to, seriously one of the best podcast episodes ever done is his first interview with Elon Musk. If you ever get the chance, just sit down and listen to it. It's three or three and a half hours, but understanding that dude's mind, Elon Musk, you will not regret that three hours of your life. It was a fantastic episode. So that's the one. Russell: Very cool. Josh: Okay. Last thing here before we move on, are there any other points that we didn't cover about why someone should have a podcast? Wrap up, make your closing arguments around why somebody should go setup a podcast. Russell: The last one I'll say, and I quote Nathan Barry, actually, in Traffic Secrets. And I'll probably mess up the quote, but it was interesting. He talked about how... I think the title of the blog post I share is, You Got to Publish Long Enough to Get Noticed. And he talks about how for most of us there's so much content out nowadays. There's all these things. It's hard to know what's going to be good. 5,000 podcasts launched today. How many Netflix episodes, all sorts stuff. He says most of us find out about a good show at Season Two or Season Three, because of this, we waited to see, our friends talked about it. All of sudden it gets a breaking point where everyone's talking about it, and then you become this overnight success. It's interesting. He said you have to publish long enough to get noticed. And I think that's the biggest thing to understand. Especially most people who are getting started and they're so scared. "I'm going to look like an idiot." "They're all going to make fun of me." "I'm just a beginner." Blah, blah. All these different excuses. The good news is, at the very beginning, no one's listening. Josh: No one's listening. Russell: It doesn't matter. Just do it. This is your chance to actually find your voice and learn how to speak and tell stories, and all those things. No one's listening. And if you keep doing it, I tell people all the time, if you publish consistently for a year, that doesn't mean once a month for a year, daily for a year, or three, four times, five times a week consistently for year. Two things will happen. Number one, you'll find your voice. Number two, your audience will have a chance and have enough time to actually find you. And so it's going out there and just setting it up, the ROI. And I'm a big ROI. You look at my DiSC profile, my number one value is ROI. If I can't see the return on investment on something, it's hard for me to do. It's why I struggled in school. It's why I struggle in awkward conversations. Because I'm like, "What's the point of this?" I don't get it. Podcasting was hard, because I didn't know what the ROI was. And luckily again, I didn't see the stats for three years. Josh: Is that how long it was? It was three years? Russell: Yeah, before we figured out how to get the stats on it. Josh: That's crazy. Russell: But because of that, because I didn't know what the ROI was, and I was just hoping and praying with faith that it would be good. Now I see the ROI. Now it's important. Now I do it twice a week. Regardless, it happens in the queue, in the can because it's that important. Josh: If your number one thing is ROI and you figured out the podcast is worth it, guys, there's your selling point. Go start a podcast already. Russell: Got a podcast. Let's go. Josh: Honestly, it's amazing. And it's so much fun too. You learn so much about yourself. And I think the one thing I'll say about podcasting is you've got to really find your own unique style. I was listening to, I know you know Alex Becker, but Alex Becker is probably one of the biggest influencers in crypto right now. Just insane. One of my friends who got his NFT, and he's up a quarter million bucks in three months. Just insane stuff. One of the things that he said is right now in the industry, everybody is trying to become an influencer. And so he says, "I see all these people trying to model exactly what it is that I do." And he's like, "I have no problem with you guys doing that because I get it." At the beginning, you don't know your voice yet or whatever, but he's like, "You'll never be me." And I won't use the language that he used. But he's basically like, "There's only one me, so eventually model me, do whatever you need to do. But eventually go find your voice. Go find your own thing, because that's why people are going to watch you. I'm going to make sure that you're irrelevant if you try to model me long term." And so it's giving you that permission to model somebody at the beginning, but then, people are not going to listen to you if they can go listen to somebody else that has the exact same style. So it allows you to really be yourself when you give yourself permission to just try different things. And at the beginning, like you said, no one's listening. Russell: Yeah. It's funny talking about modeling. I talked about this yesterday on a call I was on. It's fascinating because people, they're trying to copy or model somebody because they're trying to get those people to attract the right audience. And Myron said, "You don't attract who you want, you attract who you are." And so if you're trying to be someone else, you're not going to... Because you want those customers. It's going to be weird. I remember when we launched ClickFunnels, I was trying to be like all the other internet marketing guys, because I thought I was competing against Ryan and Perry and Traffic & Conversion. So I was trying to be more corporatey businessy, like they were. Wait a minute. That's not me. I'm not going to wear a shirt and tie on stage. I'm not going to wear a suit jacket. I'm going to wear my t-shirts and jeans. And I'm going to talk about my family and God and wrestling and things I'm excited by. And I don't care about agency, not that I don't care agency, but I don't care about... I'm going to speak to the entrepreneur, because that's who I want. Wherein Ryan and Perry, literally, one of their Traffic & Conversions were, "This is less for the entrepreneur, more for your teams and your staff." It's crazy now because you look at the... I thought we were in the same market, but as soon as I leaned into who Russell was, it's separated. And it's not that one's better or worse. They're different, but if you go to Funnel Hacking Live, it’s my people. You're in the audience. Most of these people here are Christians, who are athletes, who've got kids, who are entrepreneurs, who are not doing this for the money, but doing it because they want to change the world. That's the overwhelming percentage of our audience. Not everyone. But as a whole we attract who we are. So lean into that, because otherwise you're going to attract people you don't like, and you're going to hate your life, and you're going to hate your business, you're going to hate your customers. But you put yourself out there, the people who do not resonate with you will leave on their own. You don't have to kick them out. They're be like, "Russell's annoying." I get people all the time, if I mention God on a podcast or anything, they're like, "If you're talking about God, I'm out." Sweet. All right. Bye. I'm good with that. I know people are like, "I don't believe in God, but I respect that you lean into it." They're cool too. But the people who are offended leave and the people who stick are the ones you want to hang out with anyway, because you attract who you are and not who you want to bring in. Josh: And I can talk about that topic super long, but I want to keep moving on the next piece here. Russell: That's it for the first episode then. Here with Josh on the Market Secrets Podcast. We're going to transition to the next one on the next episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With TD Direct Investing, new and existing clients could get 1% cash back. Great! That's 1% closer to being part of the 1%. Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31, 2025. Visit td.com slash DI offer to learn more. What's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. We got three special episodes for you. The first one, well, actually all three of them are with my guest host, Josh Forte. We're going to be breaking down some cool things. The first episode, what happened in the first episode? It was really good.

Yeah, we talked all about podcasting. Why podcasting is important. Episode number one, we're going to talk about podcasting, why we do it, how we do it, the reasons behind it, a whole bunch of other things. If you haven't been doing a podcast yet, it's going to sell you on why you need to do one. If you have done one, it's going to show you guys why and how to amplify it and why it's so important and how to find your best buyers from it. I hope you guys enjoy this episode. We'll cue up the theme song. We'll be right back.

So the big question is this, how are entrepreneurs like us who didn't cheat and take on venture capital, we're spending money from our own pockets. How do we market in a way that lets us get our products and our services and the things that we believe in out to the world and yet still remain profitable? That is the question and this podcast will give you the

answer. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to Marketing Secrets. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Like I said, today, next, actually, a couple episodes, I've got a guest host with me, which I'm pumped for. We actually did two podcasts well technically they're podcast episodes for your podcast right yeah i ripped them of my podcast because they're not so good one is after the atlas shrug book josh 40 flew out and we did how long we went for like it was three and a half hours yeah hours yeah and have hours yeah going deep now the shrug which is really fascinating i actually just reread it recently

so if i do round two we should totally do that. And then, and then after I read that, that would in the devil book, I freaked out. And then Josh flew out. We did one there. So you guys have, who've been listening to the podcast are familiar with him and his voice. But I asked him, I'm just like, man, I love, I love doing the podcast, but sometimes like I fall behind and my brother who does our podcast settings, like Russell, I need episode today. I'm like, huh? I don't even know what to think, you know? And I was like, I need, I want someone to help come up with ideas. So it's not just me. And so Josh, I'm not the community asked a bunch of questions and the next couple episodes are going to be some, some, uh, some fun conversations. So I'm pumped, man. And, uh, thank you for doing this.

I know this is, you know, you're doing this pro bono to hang out and, uh, you know, just to help me out. So I appreciate that. And, uh, I'm excited to find out what people want to know about. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I love podcasting, right? I mean, that's my life, right? If I could do one thing, it would just be have a show that we just talk all the time. So this is like fun for me, right? It's like asking you to come hang out

and geek out about funnels, right? So I'm super, super excited though. It's going to be super cool and kind of dive in further and pick your brain and kind of open up a new world that I don't think a lot of people get to see. Yeah, it's interesting because I think, I feel like that when it's like me doing my own podcast, it's like, I pick a topic I go into, but it's fun when like yesterday I had a chance to speak at a virtual event thing. And, um, you know, I did my thing and then people ask questions.

It's just like, Oh, I never, you know, it just opens up a different side that you don't normally do. And so I don't do a lot of Q and a stuff. So I'm excited to, yeah. And maybe it's interesting that we do this. Maybe it's a huge train wreck and this is the only time it happens. So we'll try to make it not a train wreck. Right. We'll try. We'll do it. We'll do our very best. I think, I think one of the big things though that I want to kind of start with and kind of kick this whole thing off is why you spend so much time with podcasting. Right. Because like, here's the thing, man, like you're rich. We all know it,

right? Like you don't have to do this, right? You have this company that you could, I mean, we all learned at Funnel Hacking Live, you turned down a billion dollar offer, right? So clearly you're not doing this for the money and you've got a company, you've got a team, you've got all these resources, you could spend money on ads, you can like, you could do whatever it is that you want, right? Yet somehow you're calling me up and are like, dude, I need to do podcasts. Right. And like to somebody who gets it and I get it, right. I have a podcast. I dedicate time when it doesn't make sense. I put money into a podcast. It doesn't make sense. Right. Like on paper I get, and I understand content and putting it out there, but I don't think, and I've never been at your

level either. I don't think a lot of people understand what, like, why do you do it, dude? Like why a podcast and why are you investing so much of the time that you have now, which is limited, I'm sure, right. There's a lot of people trying for your attention. Why a podcast and why, like, why is that such a core fundamental piece of that you actually spend so much time on when you clearly don't have to. Yeah. Um, man, there's man there's i could probably in fact i'll probably give you four or five reasons because there's not just one reason there's there's a lot of them um and i actually i remember like when podcasting started i was at a at arm and more it's a big seminar and uh someone was on stage uh paul colling is on stage he's like there's this thing coming it's gonna be the greatest thing in the

world it's called podcasting and you're gonna put these things in your ears and listen to people talk i remember i was like that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard no one ever listened to like i and yeah i just didn't get he's like no this is like the future i remember because i was uh my roommate at the time was josh anderson to me as me no josh and uh and josh went by like every podcast domain he could think of and i was like you're done like that's never gonna happen but i do remember i was like well if i ever did a podcast like I would call it the mark, I'd call it the marketing, your car podcast. Cause like, I guess while I'm going to call my drive, my car, I could record it. And I remember thinking that I remember I bought at the time marketing your car and I did

nothing with it for like, I don't know, eight or nine years. Uh, just had it. In fact, I even, I even paid someone to, um, to write an intro song for it. So if you ever go back to the first episodes, the first hundred something episodes, there was this really, you know, at the time it was so cool. Now it's kind of corny, but there was this theme song that some guy wrote for me and I had it for like five years, this theme song. I never used it. Cause I was like, I still, I don't get podcasting. Um, then in my business life, we had grown up my company at the time we had like a hundred employees.

And then, you know, the long story you guys have heard before is like, the company crashed, everything fell around. They went from a 20,000 square foot office to 2000 square foot office. And, um, and like everything, I was just like, I feel like an idiot. I was embarrassed. Like, you know, my status was an all time low and I just, I was weird. And for some reason in that season of my life, I had this impression, like you need to start podcasting and talk about marketing. I was like, this is like, I'm like, and I was convinced this time I was the worst marketer in the world. Cause I just crashed my

entire empire. And I was like, I'm an idiot. Like, you know, it's like, I didn't want to, but I felt this impression. Like now it's time to start a podcast. So I literally from the ashes of my business started this podcast and I had a time, like a four or five minute drive to the office. I was like, okay, I can be consistent with this. It's going to happen all the time. I'm going to do it. So I got my phone out. I clicked record and I would literally just drive to the office. I was like, okay, I can be consistent with this. It's going to happen all the time. I'm going to do it. So I got my phone out. I clicked record and I would literally just drive to my office. And I would just talk about what we were trying to figure out. Like, all right, today we're going to the office and are, you know, working on this new offer and this is what we're thinking. And then, you know, the next episode, like, oh, we launched the offer and it

worked or it didn't work. So we tried this and it was just me kind of documenting. It's funny. I heard, I heard Vaynerchuk talk about like document your journey. And I know that wasn't a thing at the time that's literally what i started doing and it was nice because it was something that was so easy that i just it was it was easy to be consistent with because it was just i think if i if i would have had to do a podcast where for me i had a studio and a microphone all those things i probably wouldn't have done it because i wouldn't have got enough momentum to stick with it but it was easy and at first, the, the way we set it up, we didn't, we couldn't track stats. So we had no idea if anyone was listening, which was a huge benefit because had I known how few people were listening, I probably wouldn't have kept doing it. Um, but I

just kept doing it and doing it. Um, not really knowing what kind of return was going to happen, you know? And it's funny now I had someone, uh, about a year ago, go through and, um, start from the very beginning and listen to all the episodes. i was trying to get like some notes and like try to remember and uh it was cool because they started coming back like reporting like he's like did you know on like this day you talked about why you thought anyone who wanted to build a company over 10 million dollars in sales was a moron you should never try to grow a company that big and then over here you talked about you're never gonna hire employee again and like all my thoughts at the time which have morphed and shifted, obviously, but it's

like this cool thing where we have this, like, I have this record now of this journey from the ashes to, to click funnels and beyond. Like, okay. It's been very special for me. Okay. Sorry. I don't, I want to continue down that path. I want to, I want to interject right there.

Okay. So the reason I started a podcast is because of like, literally you told me to, right? Like you didn't physically be like, Josh, start a podcast, but like all your books, all your content, you're like publish, publish, publish, publish, publish, right? And I'm like, okay. And so it started on Facebook and started on Facebook lives. And then it kind of grew. And then my friend Daxie, he was like, dude, like turn into a podcast, like way more people would listen. I'm like, all right. So like I have, I don't know, four, 500 episodes now on my podcast that I've done with, you know, you and every, all these different

interviews or whatever. But what I tell people is, and this is true in all areas of my life, like I'm so blatantly honest on my podcast. Like I don't filter or mint my words, you know, mince my words at all. Shocking, right? You're filtered on Facebook and Instagram. You're telling me just a little bit. But anyway, so, but like, what's interesting is one of the things that you pointed out there was you have this document, you have this record of exactly where you were at at this time. Right. And so like, for me, like one of the things, and this is bigger than just podcasting, like when you're just blatantly honest with yourself and like where things are at and you just turn on the microphone and you just talk, like you actually can go back and you can watch

your progress and you can see like, Oh man, like when I was 26 years old, when this happened, this is what I thought about life, right? Or this is what I thought about, you know, this particular topic, or like, this is what I was learning here. Or like whenever I'm building like a funnel or I'm building, you know, like something that I knew I worked on in the past and I talked about it, I can literally go back and I can remember like the struggles. And I think it was you, it might've been, it might've not been you, it might've been Gary. But anyway, someone, I think it was you though. You were like, imagine if like Jeff Bezos would have documented every single day or like every single week building Amazon, like how much people would pay for that.

Right. Like how that would be so epically cool. That's like what it's like. So I totally understand what you're talking about there. And I don't think, like, I feel like people are embarrassed to start a pot. Like they're like embarrassed where they're at now. Right. And so they don't want to put it out there, but I'll never forget Liz Benny. Obviously, you know Liz. She's amazing. I had her on my podcast. This is probably a year and a half ago. She's like, Josh, I've watched you grow so much. I'm like, really? She's like, oh yeah. I'm like, how do you know? She's like, because I listen to your podcast. It was like, oh, this is a long-term thing. It was kind of like at that moment that I realized

that, you know what I mean? For sure. It's interesting. Cause you know, if I haven't publicly talked much about this yet, but, um, I've been acquiring old books. Like I just bought this whole, um, literally like library of Napoleon Hill books and stuff. And it's been so fascinating. Cause I'm like reading through and these are the records, these people and their beliefs and their thoughts. And like, you know know i've got old magazines from like early 1900s late 1800s i'm reading i found an article from thomas edison who were in the publishing these mad and it's like i'm reading this stuff and it's so cool and one thing that's um this is like russell guilt uh in the mormon church one thing they always talk about is like

you need to keep a journal you keep a journal so that way your posterity has this thing i've never been good at keeping a journal and what i started realizing like as i'm going through all napoleon hill stuff i'm like i'm so grateful that they wrote these things down and they have this journal and i started feeling like guilt again and all of a sudden i was like wait a minute i don't have a journal but i've been podcasting now for seven years i'm like this is my record this is when i'm dead my kids or my grandkids or my posterity or people who you know whoever it is you know like this is how they're going to learn about me and figure out what it was. And like, and hopefully I shortcut them some, some trial and error. Like here's the journey went on, but like, here's what I figured out.

I can help them. And, you know, I think all of us are always talking about like, when I leave an impact, like, I think, you know, my podcast episodes, I'm hoping these are my journals. These are my records. This is like what I just bought from Napoleon Hill. I'm hoping that this becomes something for the future generations that they could use and they can build their businesses off and their ideas and their plans. Cause my podcast is, you know, like it's a marketing podcast, but I don't talk about marketing most of the time.

I'm talking about my family and my kids and, and I'm learning and like my personal development and all the things, you know, marketing is the hook. I got people in, but it's, it's my life record. It's my journals,

which is kind of cool too. Yeah, that is super cool. So like I, it's funny. We quick side note, we have to shut down this thing different theory because apple has just spelled it different yeah well that's yeah believe me we we've tried some things i'm not trying i'm not trying to push against the biggest company

in the world right so anyway we have we have a new name i'm not gonna say it yet but like we have it's coming but anyway i like in the last just couple of weeks, I've like had to, had to pause like doing podcasts. And like, it's weird. Cause like what you said right there is like, I don't keep a journal, but I know that I do keep a journal via like that exact same thing. And it was weird. I went to my wife, uh, literally like two days ago and I was like, I need you to help

me create a shit system for the short term to be able to document my thoughts because right now I'm not doing it. And I have so many things that we're going through right now. So I totally get that. But like, I feel like there's gotta be more than that, right? There's gotta be another reason besides just the documentation process for the podcast for you. For sure. Okay. So that's, that's the first thing. Um, again, I got four or five that kind of run me in my head. So I don't know what the order to come out in, but the next one is, um, so, uh, eventually I wrote a book, right. And people are like, these books are so good. Like, how do you know all these stories? And for

me, it's like, I have an idea and the idea percolates in my head for a minute. And I'm like, I got to tell someone. So usually first person I tell is usually the podcast. Like I'm thinking about this thing. I talk about it. Right. And so like, I, I tell the story the first time, the first time, like, you know, it may not even be that, that flushed out. They get to the office and I like, I see Dave over there. Dave's excited. I'm like, Dave, check this out. I tell it to him again. And then I tell someone else.

And then I'm doing an interview and I say it again. And I tell the story four or five, six times. And I get better and better at telling the story. And when I'm at the seminar and I'm on stage, I'm talking, I'm talking, I'm talking. I have no idea which direction I'm going. All of a sudden, like this thing will pop up in my head. I'm like, oh, I've told that story six times, like three months ago. And it just, it appears.

I remember Tony Robbins told me, he said, he's he's like when i go on stage i have a plan he's like but the plan like it never goes to plan like i start talking and then he's like he's like these downloads just come from from god or from the universe and they they just show up and for me as i started podcasting and telling stories over and over and over again that's exactly what happens now like when i need something like i'm in a situation i'm coaching someone i'm talking i'm on an event or stage or something i need something all of a sudden it just it appears when i need it i think it's because i didn't just think about it forget about i think about it i tell a story it's published i tell someone else like and then when i write a book like i told the story 400 times like i know the best way to tell a story now

right i've seen like what people laugh at what they don't laugh at like how to do it the right way and so it's like in fact it's interesting's interesting, like my public or my, um, my next book is a personal development book. I've struggled with that one. Cause I don't have a personal development podcast. I haven't tested these stories, these principles of these theories. I'm like, and like, I've been stuck as you know, you're, I, I still send you the rough draft like eight months ago. And so I think as part of this, I haven't had a chance to flush these things out. So it gives me a chance to flush out my ideas is another one. Um, another one that's interesting. I don't know the exact stats, but I, but I, um, uh, I read it somewhere. I think I, I think I talked about in traffic

secret. So I put it in there, but conceptually they talked about people who are podcast listeners versus the rest of humanity. And I'm gonna tell you about the stat and I'll tell you how the practical application, that stat, which is really fascinating. So the stat was something like the average person listens to the radio makes like, I don't know, $60,000 a year. And whereas the average podcast listener makes $120,000 a year. So the people you are getting and acquiring, um, they are, they are people with more spending power. They're more affluent people that are the kind of people who are trying to develop their brain, their minds, their things like that. They're more likely to buy a course or a of people who are trying to develop their brain, their minds, their things like that. They're, they're more likely to buy a course or software

or mastermind or things like that, because they're kind of people who aren't listening to radio to like to numb themselves. They're listening to audio to grow. And so like, that's the fascinating thing that you're getting a better caliber customer who are listening. Hey, funnel hackers, let's be real. How many of you have forgotten about subscriptions and you keep paying for these things month after month after month. That was my wife and I before Rocket Money came along. Literally a couple months ago, we downloaded this app and within minutes we found out a whole bunch of subscriptions. In fact, we had multiple Hulu payments, multiple Disney payments from accounts that my wife had set up and I had set up and we weren't even using one of them. It was crazy. Rocket Money is a personal

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and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash Russell today. That's rocketmoney.com slash R-U-S-S-E-L-L. That's rocketmoney.com slash Russell today. That's rocketmoney.com slash R-U-S-S-E-L-L. That's rocketmoney.com slash Russell. Hey, funnel hackers. I want to talk about building your business. You've got the idea, the passion, the drive, but here's the thing. Setting up the legal stuff can feel like a total roadblock.

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Um, when it's just me and them, right. Even it's not even like that on YouTube either. Cause like YouTube video while I'm cooking dinner while i'm doing yeah five other things that's super interesting like i don't listen to podcasts my kids in the room because they're gonna ask me a question they're gonna mess it up and so yeah it's when i'm separate and it's like just me and them and that's it and so i get this i like i have a different level of intimacy with uh the podcast people i'm listening to so higher quality customers better level of intimacy and then the practical application the first time i really got this i was after I launched my inner circle the very first time. And again, it was funny because I always told you, I never made my podcast. My podcast,

I'm not making any money from it. And as I, you know, did it for four or five years and I launched my first version of my inner circle, we had an appointment about 33 people in it paying 25 grand. And I remember at one of the events, somebody asked like, how did you guys bump into Russell? And all of them were like, oh, I saw something. I saw something. But then I got on his podcast and I listened to him every single day I was working out for six months. And he kept talking about this inner circle and talking about this thing that's been to get all these things. And it was fascinating that almost everyone in the room, they didn't hear about my podcast. Podcast isn't good for lead gen, right?

It's never, as you know, it's like, oh, I can't just buy ads and blow up your podcast. But people find out about you, they plug in to your podcast. And the people who make that transition from, I saw a book, I saw an ad, I saw something. And they make that transition where they actually get the phone out, subscribe, and then plug you in. Those become your best customers, your highest buyers. They're the best. And so the practical application is yes. By, by doing this podcast, it's like, I'm, I'm taking, and I talked about this in expert secrets and actually my inner circle meeting last month, we talked a lot about this. Like, um, we talk about creating a new opportunity versus an

improvement offer. Right. And for the most part, you want to create new opportunities. That's what gets people in the door. I told everyone, I was like, your value ladder should be like this new opportunity. There's opportunity stacking. I'm like the back of the value ladder. There's one section that's saved for people with ambition, right? New opportunities are about getting people who have desire to come in, but people with ambition and the percentage of your, of your audience is small. You're the position, the percentage of people who have true ambition, maybe 15 to 20%, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, but those are your most ambition. I, and I told, I told them that my mastermind, Mike, I'm like, I didn't sell you guys a new opportunity. I was like, if I'm going to Boise

and talk to other entrepreneurs, I'm going to get better and stronger and smarter. Like all the ER words, right? Yeah. Like you guys are the ones at the top of the value ladder. You are ambitious. So I'm not selling you a new opportunity. I'm selling you guys, um, improvement and it's the hardest thing to sell, but it's like the, the, um, you know, what, what one tier of your audience wants. I feel like same thing, like the people who are listening to your podcast, these are the people who want improvement. These are the ambitious ones. They're not the tire kickers. And so it's like the best way to convert people into their highest ticket back and things as well. Yeah. And I also think there's one thing that's very important to, to point out, I think, here is the style slash type of podcast that you particularly create.

Because I've studied a lot of different podcasts, right? Joe Rogan, obviously, is a big inspiration of mine when it just comes to creating content or whatever. What's interesting is that the type of content that a Joe Rogan creates or that even like a Logan Paul or any of the bigger mainstream podcasts, oftentimes it's much more for entertainment, right? And Joe Rogan, I think, maybe is kind of the blend between the two, but a lot of podcasts, they're not specifically for like solving a very specific problem, right?

And so what I always say about specifically the type of podcast that you create, right? You or Steve or whatever is your type of podcast is horrible for lead generation, but it's amazing for lead education, right? Like it's because once they're in there that you have that. And what's interesting is one of the times that I listened to your podcast most, I'm going to let you guess, I'm sure you're not going to get it, but what do you think is one of the times I listened to your

podcast most when you're driving somewhere in your car? That's a time. Yeah. But it's when I'm in pain, right? Like when I have a specific pain around my funnel, when I have a specific, I will literally go and I'm like, Oh, Russell has this podcast. He's got all these episodes. I bet you he's talked about it. And so I'll literally go on my phone and I'll like keyword search, like for different things. And I'll, I'll specifically go like there was a one time I was listening to, I was something about a webinar or something. And you were talking about how you wrote your headlines and basically how you came up with your framework for it. And I remember, I was like, I remember you did that one time. And so I was struggling with it.

And so I literally searched it and I did it. And so like the type of podcast that you create there's in my head, there's two different ones. There's one for entertainment. And then there's one for education. Right. And you create one specifically for education. And when you do that, that's the, that's the type of podcast. That's the type of content that literally goes and educates your, your member.

And when you have that, like 100%, my top buyers, anybody that gives me a top dollar for my stuff, they all listen to my podcast or have been on my podcast and I'll pull something out of it. They're always the ones that pay the most money, for sure. For sure. It's interesting, too. As you said, a lot of formats. When I did mine, I did a short form for a couple reasons. Number one, it was my drive to the office, so that's kind of how it started. But number two, it's like I love Joe Rogan, and I've probably listened to one of his entire podcasts ever.

Oh, my gosh, dude. I've probably listened to a hundred of them. And I get overwhelmed because each one's four hours long, and there's all these different people. And it's like, oh, everyone keeps talking recently about the Jewel. It's a great thing. Where do you got to listen to it? I'm like, four hours. I'm like, I could get a whole audio book, an entire book done entire book done in four hours i'm just like ah is it worth the investment it's like

i don't ever want to dive into it because it's so big whereas mine it's like again someone's in the car and like oh like i only got i got a 10 minute commute boom throw it in they get an episode and then what happens is they get hooked and then they'll listen for four hours so it's different though because like if joe rogan's were broken up into even 20 minute blocks i'd probably listen to all of them. YouTube, Joe Rogan clips. It's Joe Rogan experience clips.

And it's literally 20 minute episodes. So if you ever want to, that's probably what I would do. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's interesting. And then also the nice thing about short form is people come in, they listen to one.

And I guess all the time people are like, I listened to like, I got in a podcast, listen to four episodes and I loved it. So I started the very beginning and I binge listened to all of them. It happens all the time as well. Whereas like Joe Rogan, you're not going to binge listen because that's like 65 years worth of content mine is just like oh they're short i'm gonna go to the

beginning and they start and they binge listen and then they've gone through your journey with you by time they show up they're like they know everything that you've ever said and they like so much easier to work with they've got that stuff so yeah i think everyone needs like this it's just it's one of these like you're not gonna see a big return i don't initially um but over time if you're consistent with it like it's it's the best thing and then obviously you know i don't use my platform for this uh but you do and i think it's brilliant it gives you access to all these people right whereas like the interviewing people like you access people you you can't otherwise you literally can't even fab like doors open that

you literally can't even understand simply because you're like hey i have a podcast and hey i've got these couple other cool players on here you want to come and like alex hermosi's coming on my podcast right like i literally reached out to him i was like i have a podcast and 100 i'm gonna admit something to you right now i was like hey i had a podcast and russell's been on a couple times you want to come on he's like i love russell of course i'll come on your show right so like like crazy big doors right like that get open simply because you have a platform to be able to you know allow someone to use their voice as well yep which is crazy before tony we're super close we've met a couple times and stuff but i remember

uh he was doing some launch i remember lewis house and him who got on did a big interview and three or four people did interviews i was like so annoying like like why should i hang up these people not me and then i also had the aha is like, Lewis Howes got a big podcast. I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I was like, okay, I need, I need to be able to offer my platform to him to get in that door and really build that relationship. Like, and that's one of the powers of it too. You have a platform. Now you've got ability to access people you can't otherwise. And you know, as you know. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Two rapid fire questions here really quick. Cause I want to move on to kind of the next

topic to keep us on track. But number one, what's the Joe Rogan episode that you listened to all the way through? Do you remember? Oh, I do know. Yeah. And I actually hate that I listened to this one. It was the Gary V one. Oh, and the reason why I listen, because I was like, I want to be on Joe Rogan's podcast

someday. And I want to see what Gary talked about. Because I, i yeah as you know gary and i have a he probably doesn't know who i am um you have a light beef got an interesting relationship he's not my okay so i was like i gotta make sure i'm the next internet marketer who actually does a better job so okay two things on that one anybody listening i mean i'm gonna do this so don't take it but i'll beat you to it if you ever can get Russell Brunson on Joe Rogan that's a great Dream 100 gift right there right that would be amazing

secondly I've listened to so many episodes of Joe Rogan one of my favorite ones is actually with Kanye I know everyone thinks Kanye is an idiot but like if you can that's like five hours it's insane it's one of the most intense episodes I've ever listened to but one that is like a must listen to like seriously one of the best

podcast episodes I've ever done is his first interview with elon musk like if you ever get the chance to sit down and listen to it it's like three or three and a half hours but like like understanding that dude's mind elon musk like you will not regret that three hours of your life it was a fantastic episode so that's the one very cool okay uh last thing here before we move on are there any other points that we didn't cover about why someone should have a podcast like wrap up maybe make your closing arguments around why someone is really close to our podcast um yeah the last one will say i quote nathan berry actually in traffic secrets uh and i'll probably mess up the quote but it was interesting he talked about how um i think the title that i of the blog post that i share like, you got to publish long enough to get noticed.

And it talks about how for most of us, there's so much content out nowadays, right? There's all these things. It's hard to like know what's going to be good. Like 5,000 podcasts launched today. There's how many Netflix episodes, all sorts of stuff. It says most of us find out about a good show at like season two or season three,

because we waited to see like, our friends talked about it. Also, it gets a breaking point. Everyone's talking about it. And then you become this overnight success right and he said it's interesting he's like you have to publish long enough to get noticed and i think that's the biggest thing to understand especially most people who are getting started and they're like so scared like i'm gonna look like an idiot no one's gonna like they're all gonna make fun of me i'm just a beginner

all these different excuses like the good news is at the very beginning no one's listening no matter just do it this is your chance to actually find your voice and learn how to speak and tell stories and all those kind of things. No one's listening. And you keep doing it. I tell people all the time, if you publish consistently for a year, that doesn't mean like once a month for a year, like daily for a year, or three, four times, five times a week, consistently for a year, two things will happen. Number one, you'll find your voice. Number two, your audience will have a chance and have enough time to actually find you. And so it's going out there and just setting it up, saying the ROI. And I'm a big ROI.

You look at my disc profile. My number one value is ROI. If I can't see the return on investment in something, it's hard for me to do. It's why I struggled in school. It's why I struggled in awkward conversations because I'm like, what's the point of this? I don't get it. Podcasting was hard because I didn't know what the ROI was. And luckily, again, I didn't see the stats for three years.

Is that how long it was? It was like three years? Yeah, before we figured out how to put the stats for three years. How long was it? It was like three years. Yeah, before we figured out how to make the stats on it. And so, but because of that, because I didn't know what the ROI was, and I was like just hoping and praying with faith that it would be good. Now I see the ROI.

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it's all that you need. Well, if your number one thing is ROI and you figure out the podcast is worth it, guys, there's your selling point. Go start a podcast. All right, a podcast. Let's go. It's there on it. Honestly, it's amazing. And it's so much fun, too. You learn so much about yourself. And I think the one thing I'll say about podcast is you've got to really find your own unique style. I was listening to I know, you know, Alex Becker, but Alex Becker is probably one of the biggest influencers in crypto right now. Right. I mean, just just insane, insane. Right. One of my friends got his NFT and he's up like a quarter million bucks in like three months, right? Just insane stuff.

But one of the things he said is, right now in the industry, everybody is trying to become an influencer, right? And so he says, I see all these people trying to model exactly what it is that I do, right? And he's like, I have no problem with you guys doing that because I get it, right? At the beginning, you don't know your voice yet or whatever,

but he's like, you'll never be me. And I won't use the language that he used, right. But he's basically like, there's only one me. Right. So like eventually like, yeah, model me, do whatever you need to do. But like, eventually like go find your voice, like go find your own thing. Because like, that's how people are going to watch you because like, I'm going to make, I'm going to make sure that you're irrelevant if you try to model me long-term. Right. And so it's like, kind of like giving you that permission to be like, yeah, like model somebody at the beginning, but then like, like people, people are not going to listen to you if they can go listen to somebody else that has the exact same style.

Right. So like it allows you to really be yourself when you give yourself permission to just like try different things. And at the beginning, like you said, no one's listening. So, yeah, it's funny talking about modeling. I talked about this yesterday on a call I was on. But it's fascinating because people they they they're trying to to copy or model somebody because they're trying to get those people like to track that right audience right and um uh myron said uh you don't track who you want you track who you are and so like if you're trying to be someone else you're you're not gonna like because you want those customers it's gonna be weird like i remember when we launched click funnels i was trying to be like all the other

internet marketing guys because i was competing against you know ryan and perry and traffic conversion so i was like trying to be more corporate business you kind of like they were and i was like wait a minute that's not me like i'm not gonna wear a shirt and tie on stage i'm not gonna wear a suit jacket i'm gonna wear my t-shirts and jeans and i'm gonna talk about my family and god and wrestling and things i'm excited by and i don't care about you know like agency like not that i don't care about agency but i don't care about like like i'm gonna speak to the entrepreneur because that's what i want we're in Orion and Perry, literally one of the fun or one of their traffic conversions were like, you know, this is

less for the entrepreneur, more for your, your teams and your staff. And like, it's crazy now because you look at the, the, like, I thought we were in the same market, but as soon as I leaned into who Russell was, it's separated. And it's not that one's better or worse. They're different, but like, like you're a fun hiking life. It's my people. You're in the audience. Like most of these people here are Christians who are athletes athletes who've got kids who are entrepreneurs who not do this for money but doing because they want to change the world like that's like the overwhelming percentage of our audience not everyone but as a whole like we attract who we are so it's like so lean into that because otherwise you're gonna attract people you

don't like and you're gonna hate your life and you're gonna hate your business you're gonna hate your customers but you you put yourself out there the people who do not resonate with you will leave on their own yeah you don't have to kick them out they're like russell's annoying i get people all the time like if i mentioned god on a podcast or i think they're like all right i'm out you're talking about god i'm out sweet i'm like all right bye like i'm yeah you know i know people like i don't believe in god but i i respect you lean into it and like they're they're cool too but the people who are offended leave and the people who stick are the ones you want to hang out with anyway because you attract who you are not who you want to to uh to bring you i could talk about that topic super super long but i want to

keep moving on to the next piece here so that's it for the first episode then here with josh on the marketing secrets podcast we're gonna transition next one on the next episode hey everybody this is russell again and quick, I just opened up a texting community, which means you can text me your questions. And right now I'm spending anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes every single day answering questions through text message to people who are on the podcast. And so I wanted you to stop everything you're doing, pull your phone out and actually text me a message, okay?

And the phone number you need to text is 208-231-3797. Once again, it's 208-231-3797. When you text me, just say hello. And then what's going to happen is we'll add you to my phone and then they'll send you back a message where you can add me to your phone. And then we can start having conversations. On top of that, through this texting community is where I'm going to be giving out free swag, giving away free copies of my book, let you know about book signings, about times I'm coming to your local area, and a whole bunch more. So I want to make sure you are on this list. On top of that, every single day I'm sending out my favorite quotes, my favorite frameworks

and things you can get for free only through my texting platform. So what you need to do right now is pull out your phone and text me at area code 208-231-3797. One more time, that's 208-231-3797. I more time, that's 208-231-3797. I can't wait to hear from you right now.