The Ryan Hanley Show - 244. Mastering the Business of Life After Football with Marcus Ogden

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comWhen humility meets the gridiron, extraordinary tales emerge, like that of Marcus Ogden, whose transition from the NFL's bright lights to the entrepreneurial stage is inspiring.✅ Join over 10,000 newsletter subscribers: https://go.ryanhanley.com/✅ For daily insights and ideas on peak performance: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanhanley✅ Subscribe to the YouTube show: https://youtube.com/ryanmhanleyConnect with Marques OgdenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marquesogden/Website: https://marquesogden.com/More about the EpisodeIn our latest episode, Marcus and I tread the fine line between success and hubris, unpacking how the very ego that can drive us to great heights often requires tempering to achieve genuine contentment. His stories, steeped in candor, reveal that our proudest moments should be measured not by our accolades, but by the hands we extend to lift others.There's an art to listening that goes beyond merely hearing words—it's about truly understanding narratives, the kind that Marcus and I unpack in our discussion. It's the same skill that turns a conversation into a connection and a narrative into a lesson. This episode serves as a masterclass in the mutual benefits of mentorship, the transformative power of teaching, and the undervalued craft of active listening—skills that Marcus and I consider pivotal in business and life alike. We dissect the impact of these soft skills in fostering profound personal and professional relationships, and how they can be leveraged to turn life's cacophony into a symphony of opportunities.The finale of our chat honors the resilience that defines a victor's mindset, a transformation Marcus knows intimately. We explore the nuances of bouncing back from life's blindsides, the patience and grit demanded in the face of adversity, and the long road to speaking success. We close with a nod to the legendary Highmark Stadium, home of the Bills Mafia, reflecting on the broader implications of sports specialization and advocating for a more rounded approach to athletic development. Join us for this journey of introspection, where each step taken is a lesson learned and shared.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello everyone and welcome back to the show. Today we have a W-Tremendous episode for you. A conversation with Marcus Ogden. Marcus is a former NFL player, former founder and CEO of an eight-figure construction company. He is now a speaker, a brand ambassador, a consultant, a coach. He's written books and all around just absolutely tremendous human being who I have come to get to know over the last few weeks and months

now that we text all the time, we talk all the time, we connect on social media, big supporters of each other's work. And just, you know, when you meet somebody who is cut from a certain mold, who has a certain mentality, sometimes you just can't help yourself, but get drawn into their work, get drawn into what they do and want to support them in every way. And that is what Marcus has become for me. And this is just an amazing podcast. I want you to get to know it's really just an intro to Marcus's work. I want you to dive deep. He's going to tell you about how he can, you can connect deeper with him. If you listen to this and you are an event organizer, I would highly recommend Marcus as a speaker reaching out to him. Marcus is somebody who I'm going to be trying to make connections with in my own network because I just think so much of this human being and what he has to share and the message that he has to share.

So this is a tremendous conversation. And guys, to that, not only should you connect and connect deeper with Marcus, I would appreciate if you love this show, because we do not run ads on the show. If you find value in it, if you love conversations like the one that I'm about to have with Marcus that you're about to listen to, would love for you to share this show, even if it's to disagree with something that we talk about or something that I say, even if it's to add your own perspective, if it's dissenting, that's okay. That's what this show is about. This show is about becoming the best version of ourselves. How do we find peak performance in our business and in our life? And in order

to do that, we have to be able to disagree with each other. We have to be able to talk about tough topics. We have to be able to talk through things in a caring, compassionate way, filled with grace, but also in a way that is intellectually honest. And I think that that is what we're cultivating here on the show. The show is growing like crazy, so I appreciate all the new listeners that are coming to the show. And if you love this show, make sure you subscribe, share it with friends. And if you can leave a rating and review on Apple and Spotify, because guests read those ratings and reviews. They do. They go in. I do that when someone asked me to be on their podcast. I come in. If I don't already know them, I read a little bit. I learned a little bit. Is this someone who I feel like I can have a good conversation with? And those reviews

mean a lot to guests and it means a lot to me if you'll do that. So with that being said, I don't want to take up too much of your time here in the intro because I want to get on to my good friend, Marcus Ogden. Yeah, that was a good, it was a great conversation, but it was one of those things where you're just, you know, he just kept having points. And I just was like, finally, I just had to be like, well, that's a perfect time to wrap up, man, because we got to go. But yeah, it's all good.

I figured a half hour in between episodes would be fine, but you know, whatever, it's all good. Well, dude, I'm so excited to have you on the show. I appreciate the connection that you've made, the conversation, reaching out. It's been amazing. And sharing your story with the audience, I couldn't be more excited. So I just appreciate you being here. No doubt, man. I look forward to it. So I would love to start not at the beginning. I want to talk, I was looking through

just a lot of your stuff on social and looking through your keynotes page and just your website and all that. And, you know, a word that I saw a few times that to me is something I, I battle with and, and I'm constantly, um, fighting is this idea of ego and the negative, the negative aspects of ego and what it could do to us is someone who's been successful multiple times in multiple different avenues and multiple different seasons of their life. You know, why, why do you address ego? Like what, what, what is, what is it about this idea that you have felt it's so necessary to create one of your top keynotes around to create so much content around? Like why is that term, that idea, that concept become, you know, seemingly one of the cornerstones of the work that you do?

So really what happens is Ryan, you know, people don't understand that just because you're successful doesn't mean you're going to stay that way. I made a lot of money playing in the National Football League. I made even more money as a construction company owner, catered to premier enterprises. And I did very well. And I was doing a lot of things that I love doing. I was able to go where I wanted to go, do what I wanted to do, buy what I wanted to buy. And unfortunately, I started to believe the height that comes along

with success if you don't appreciate it, if you don't really keep yourself grounded around positive movement, which means just doing things and being exercising of an individual who wants to help others, right? So in life, you can really learn how to be successful, I feel, through innovation, movement being dynamic. And for me, I lost the sight of movement towards really trying to extend a hand to help other people, trying to do things to help others become more fulfilled and successful. I became all about myself. And as an individual, when you're all about self, then you're really at either the door or you're about to open the door to just blow up and end up imploding in a negative way. And ego is something that you can't see. I have an acronym

for it. In that regard, you talk about ego. For me, it's exaggerated, glorified opinions. One of my clients told me another acronym for ego, which is edging God out. And it all comes back to, we have to remember that when we have things, it doesn't mean we have to change who we are. We don't have to try to be something that we're not. You know, our podcast is in the top 0.5% most successful. I've been very fortunate to interview some amazing people. We're interviewing Dr. Ian Smith later this month. It's going to be on March 28th. I've interviewed two gentlemen yesterday, Kachi Benson and Matt Ogans, who produced a Disney Plus

documentary coming out called Madoo. It's coming out March 29th. All these people, Robert Irvine, David Archuleta. And if it was the old Marcus, the ego would be bigger than my brand new house that I bought, that I worked so hard for. It'd be bigger than anything. And honestly, I couldn't step into a room because my ego would literally not allow me to do because we would fit through the door. So what I've learned now is that if you're successful, your ego needs to be kept in check, right? And understand that ego, if your ego gets

bigger than the good part of your soul, you're screwed. And so what I'm hoping people gain from this, right, Ryan, is that they understand that in life, no matter how successful you get, you never want to be in a position to edge God out. And you never want to be in a position where you're exaggerating, lying about what you do, how you do it, trying to cheat us to get ahead. Glory, all about you, you, you. I call that external motivating factors, cars, homes, money, trips, all those things that really don't matter. And then opinions, which is, right, Ryan, having to always have the last word. So to me, I talk about it because so many people, Ryan, do not understand that if your ego starts to get bigger than a good part of your soul,

it's normally and usually too late to get back and try to fix it to keep yourself going in the right direction. So I try to talk about so people are aware of it so they don't end up like I did in, what was that, April 2013, moving to Raleigh, bankrupt, broke, almost homeless, $400 to his name because of his ego. So what I've heard you say is that a lot of the lessons around ego, you've had to, to, to learn the hard way, uh, through, through, through, through loss. And, and how, how do you address this with say a younger audience, maybe people in their late teens, early twenties. Um, you know, we have a lot of, uh, this show has a large portion of its audience works in the insurance

industry. Not everyone, but a large portion of it. Many of those are younger sales professionals, younger leaders. And how do you speak to them where they could start to head this off, avoid some of the traps of ego without having to take the big L? Like, do you just have to feel, is to some regard, you have to feel some loss before you can really appreciate it? Or are there things you can do? Are there ways that you can head off the ego traps

without having to take a big L, if that makes sense? Yeah, of course. Yes, there's all sorts of ways that you can avoid the big L because of the big E, which is ego, right? And the key to that, right, Ryan, is surrounding yourself with people like you or me or others who have learned from making mistakes, right? And then listening to us. I tell the younger generation, right, do not expect anything to be handed to you, right?

Everything that you get, every opportunity that comes your way, you have to work for it. And you need to work for it through two types of skills. The hard skills of knowing your industry. If you're an insurance, knowing how to talk to people, knowing the property casualty, understanding what that is, your premiums, your products, your services, that's the hard skills. But you have to also master the soft skills, empathy, compassion, connectivity. And I have a saying, right, Ryan? Vulnerability creates connectivity.

And if you're listening to this, the way in which you avoid the trap or the big L because of the big E is being around people that are sharing things, advice, stories, guidance to keep you on track so you don't fall off track or you don't get off the wagon. So if you're a younger person listening, understand that you need to surround yourself with people who are older, wiser, who have been in business longer, right? Everybody needs a coach, right? Or a mentor. So the way you can really not allow the big E to cause you the big L of loss, right, Ryan, is active listening, right? You have to really listen to people like yourself or like Mick Hunt or like myself or some of the other leaders that people know and respect in their industry

or even people that are outside their industry that have gone through life and have seen the good, the bad and the ugly or have gone from boom to bust to boom. That's a big part. So, again, I tell people, especially the younger generation, you have to really master measured decision-making, right? Number one. Number two, you have to be really good at competitive market analysis. What makes you different? And three, you have to adjust and adapt on the fly with speed.

You have to be strategically agile in what you're doing in the workplace. If you can do those things, you will be primed for success. But it all starts with active listening and then measure decision-making and then making sure that you understand what you do better than your competition through competitive market analysis. And at the end of the day, you want to be able to adjust and have good decision-making on the fly with speed, which basically comes down to being strategically agile in your approach. I had a guy on the podcast named James Altucher. Good dude, very smart, former chess master, does a lot with investing and entrepreneur.

And he has this concept called plus one minus one. And what he says is that all times you have to have someone who is your plus one, that older generation mentor who's been through the game, who has lived a life that you would want to live, who can help you navigate it, that you learn from. You have someone who is your quote-unquote equal, who's maybe at a same portion or same place as you in your life and in your career that you can appear, that you can share real-time relevant experience with. And then your minus one is that person who you're mentoring. So essentially it's kind of being both the student and the teacher at the same time at different levels. So you can take that knowledge that you have, you can put it into practice and

help others put into practice at your same level, taking the information from kind of your elder, putting it into practice, and then also teaching it to those below you who maybe aren't there yet in their journey. And I don't mean below as a hierarchy. I mean it as a career path. And it relates a lot to what you're saying in that, you know, if you have to also teach it, right? Like this is what I found one of the reasons, and I want to get to this with your own career, because I know you're a speaker as well. But one of the things that I love about being a professional speaker is not necessarily, I don't, you know, no part of it is the spotlight for me.

It's, I've learned these things and I just love, I love getting them into people's hands, right? I love like, hey, I've been through some stuff, right? Some of it's good. Some of it's bad. Some of it's interesting, intertwined lessons and experiences. And man, if I can put this in front of you, maybe a couple of you are actually paying attention and not digging through your chicken can, can, can, uh, we'll actually put this

into practice. And, and, and that, what that does is it forces, this is what I've found is it forces me to relive the moments in my career where I made mistakes that maybe I would have done differently, you know, uh, obviously time machine, um, maybe I would have done differently and I get to relive them. And it keeps me to a certain extent humble because I have to keep, you know, I keep sharing, Hey, you know, this thing happened and here's why it happened. And I put myself on this pedestal over here and made this decision on an Island when really I should have socialized this or whatever. And you, by teaching you, it kind of forces you to stay humble to a certain extent. Do you, do you find that it, does that seem like a, like something you've experienced or what do you think on teaching as a

way to overcome ego? Oh yeah. Teaching allows you to really understand that somebody that is really wanting to learn, you're allowing yourself to pour into them so they can be better. And teaching is really humbling because it's somebody that's wanting to learn from you. And it's somebody that you're guiding or educating or trying to make better or inspire person is looking to you to help them get better. And that's what speaking is for us. That's what our podcast is trying to shine a light on our guests to help our audience. That's what our consulting does, helping people on a monthly basis achieve their goals and exceed their goals. That's what we've done as a bestselling author, trying to write books around overcoming adversity, pushing through obstacles, creating success, how to push through sleepless nights, how to become better and pivoting in life, how to be a better leader,

you name it. That's what we really are focusing on. So teaching allows you to really remember why you chose the path you chose to then turn around and then educate others or give others older, younger, wiser. I've got people that I teach, I'm coaching, they're smarter than me, but not in the area of which they're looking for me to coach them in. So that's what it really comes down to. So teaching, coaching, mentoring, guiding, it's all the same. And it's all about humbling yourself to understand that people are going to look to you for guidance, for answers, for solutions. And when you realize that's what it is, that's when great things start to happen. I'm reading Bruce Lee's, well, it's not, this particular book isn't by Bruce Lee, but all of it is from his journals. It's called Striking Thoughts. It's a great book if you're interested in that kind of stuff. And in there, basically, this guy took all Bruce Lee's journals and pulled out the segments and kind of compartmentalize them into into areas. So like

goals, his movie, you know, and as he was journaling out all these thoughts, and one of the things that that Bruce Lee wrote down, which I thought, and I'm Bruce Lee's, I've been fascinated with a few different characters recently. uh kobe bryant is one bruce lee's another a couple other individuals who just for some reason their mentalities are really resonating with right now but but this bruce he wrote down in this journal um the the usefulness of the cup is that it's empty and like it took me a second to think about that. And then actually, I kept reading, I underlined it. And I was like, it's interesting. There's something there. I'm not really sure. And then he went into a little depth deeper in another entry in which he said,

you know, the use, the cup, the cup is only useful if it's empty. And he goes on to explain that when you really think about it, if we approach a situation, if I were to come to this interview and I was like, you know what? I've read Marx's. I've read. I've watched a couple of his videos. I've read his website. I know everything he knows. What's the usefulness of the conversation?

What's the usefulness of the connection to you? Right. And his point, as he articulates, and I'm not going to try to do it directly because I'm going to do it to service, was essentially in all areas of our life and in all situations in our life, if we can show up empty, then we become a useful vessel because now I can hear everything you say. I can listen to the way you say it. I can take it in. I can, I can marinate on it. I can fill up on your ideas and extract the real value from them. And I feel like too often, I feel like too often we approach situations as if we already have the

answers. And that almost every, almost every time I truly regret a decision is when I didn't approach it empty. I approached it full. One, does that resonate with you? And two, when you talk about ego, how do we empty ourselves? If we do find ourselves in these places, and this is this is where I'm really like someone who, you know, who has had struggles with ego, myself included, you know, I've, you know, had the same things. How do you empty when you find yourself in that mode

and you catch yourself and you're like, oh, I'm coming from a place of ego. How do you start to today? How do you start to dissipate that? How do you start to let that go? How do you start to, you know, allow yourself to come back to a balanced place? So I live by this saying, the human mind can do a lot of things, but the human mind can't do everything. And once you understand that, that's when you can come into

a situation or come into an event or come into an interaction and not try to have a predisposed thought of how it's going to go. So like me, when I interview people, I know who they are and I have an idea of what they do. But other than that, I don't do research. I don't go to their website. I don't look at their books. I don't do any of that because I'm not trying to have information that they put out that might have been at a certain time in their life that they might have thought had been something at that time. And they might think totally differently today, right? They might have a different thought process, perspective, view. I have no idea. So I don't want to have a preconceived notion of what someone may say, plans to say, or what I think they're

going to say based on what I've read in a bio that could be old, in a bio that might be outdated. Even if they send it to me, they might have read what's in there. They might think totally differently today than when they had that bio written. So I tell people, you want to know who you're talking to if possible, but don't go and try to get all this type of information on them based upon what you see on the internet. Everything on the internet is not factual. It's not true. Some things have been outdated, misunderstood, misrepresented. And when you approach people in that light and let them tell you who they are, what they're doing, what they're about, what they feel, that is how you're able to get great interaction, great conversation. When I was a speaker starting

out, I realized one of the biggest reasons, and if you're listening to this right now, you're in sales, please listen to this. If I was trying to sell a speaking service to a client and I got on the phone with them and after saying, hi, hello, how are you? And vice versa. The first thing I wanted to do was talk. Who I am, what I'm about. I'm a four-minute athlete. I speak on this, this. I've worked for this company. Now, of course, I hadn't been paid at the time.

I did that wasn't really important. But I was just out there trying to rush, rush, rush and get my stuff out. I felt whoever talked first in the process was going to win. And in reality, whoever listens first and then responds. What's up, guys? Sorry to take you away from the episode. But as you know, we do not run ads on this show. And in exchange for that, I need your help.

If you're loving this episode, if you enjoy this podcast, whether you're watching on YouTube or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, I would love for you to subscribe, share, comment. If you're on YouTube, leave a rating review. If you're on Spotify or Apple iTunes, et cetera, this helps the show grow. It helps me bring more guests in. We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are going to help you grow as a person and grow your business, but they all check out comments, ratings, reviews. They check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach out to more and more people and want to bring them in and share their stories with you, I need your help. Share the show, subscribe if you're not subscribed. And I'd love for you to leave a comment about the show because I read all the

comments. Or if you're on Apple or Spotify, leave a rating review of this show. I love you for listening to this show and I hope you enjoy it listening as much as I do creating the show for you. All right, I'm out of here. Peace. Let's get back to the episode. After that, it's going to win. So when I talk to clients today, it's not about the Marcus Ogden story. It's not about what I feel I can bring to the table. It's about what do you need me to bring to the table? You're inviting me to dinner. Fantastic. I'm not going to show up to your, to your house with what I feel I need to have to be welcomed. I'm not going to go and cook a, you know, a steak or a roast or, you know, burgers. And the next thing you say, well,

well, I'm a vegetarian. Well, I'm not going to go and like make a bunch of sides or, you know, burgers. And the next thing you say, well, well, I'm a vegetarian. Well, I'm not going to go and like make a bunch of sides or, you know, and everything. Sides are already done. We're good to go. Don't need this. Ooh, my bad. So what I say to people is ask, what do they need? So if I'm going to dinner at your house, I'm going to ask you, what can I bring? Can I bring this? Can I bring that? And when you tell me what to bring, that's what I'm going to bring. Just like in sales, just like an interaction, you're not going to tell somebody what they need before they tell you what they need. Because then you're trying to swing a haymaker. And if you connect, it's a grand slam. Awesome.

But if you miss, you strike out. More times than not, in business, in sales, in conversation, you strike out when you try to come to a meeting or an interaction with a preconceived thought, with a notion, with a solution without even hearing the problem. So again, a way to really help to knock the ego down is not try to think about what you think somebody's going to say. Ask them the question, then shut up, and then let them say what they need to say. Oh my gosh, dude. One, I love the person that listens first wins. I think you're completely right. I love that. And it's funny, the sales process that I developed

at my former business was considered, it was very different than the common insurance sales process. And what we would do is literally, the person would get on the phone and what I would teach my people is, you say one simple thing. Hey, you know, Hey, how are you? Thank you for your interest in our company. What's going on? How can I help? And then you shouldn't, then you shut up. And dude, this is the, this was like the

hardest, all the other aspects of the sales process. People would pick up. No problem. This part was the hardest part to train people on because to your point, I feel like we just want to barf all our amazing characteristics and experience and knowledge. And I saw you do this and that's why you need that. I'm just like, no, no, you have no idea. Like, like just be quiet. Like just, you know, just be quiet. Like literally if you've got just be quiet. Like literally if you got to be five minutes on the phone in silence, be five minutes on the phone in silence. Cause eventually they're going to talk and then you'll start to understand. And dude, it was so hard. Why?

I think you're 100% right. And I love, I've never heard of put that way. And I love that. Like, why, why do you think like taking it kind of to the second level? Why do you think this listening first idea is, is so difficult? Like, cause it is a difficult concept. I think it's fair to say that you think one, do you think it's fair that it's difficult? And two, why do you think it's difficult? It's extremely difficult. Let me ask you a question, Ryan. They have a speech class in high school and college, right? They have a debate team. You get on debate team, things like that, right? You know, all that kind of stuff, right? We have a communications class.

We have a, you know, how to speak to people class. We have all these things in high school, in college. People can get full scholarships to go to Ivy League schools for being on the debate team. That's facts. Is there a listening class? Is there a how to let someone speak first class? Is there a learning how to do proper etiquette and say your name and then ask someone, how can I help you, class? No, there isn't. So because our society, our culture has trained us to communicate all the time, talk, speech, debate, you know, ask questions, you know, just like say things, tell people who we are, you know, ask them a question, really knowing that we want to just go ahead and say what we got to

bring to the table, all these things, that's what you create. You create people that are going to want to talk first. And society has taught them going again, going through high school and get you doing into college. Right. You know, has taught them communication, speech, debate is awesome. And the problem is it is awesome if you're trying to earn a grade. It's not awesome if you're actually trying to be in the business world and actually do well when it comes to sales. Right. So we're getting taught at a young age. And I went through, you know, speech class, debate class in high school. I took communications and speech, you know, in college.

I mean, even like languages, Spanish, French, Greek, you know, you name it, we're taught to what? Talk in what? Different languages. Nobody's telling us how to listen to people in different ways non-verbally and get cultural experiences to learn how to actually bring value to people. We're all about the talk, talk, talk. Yes, you need to talk to be able to get people to know what you're wanting to do for them, but it's not everything. It is the second part of the process.

The first part is the listening. Ryan, when you talked about your job in October, you were telling me about, I didn't say, oh man, you got a job. Great. Well, you know, I'm a former NFL athlete and I can talk about this and I can do that. I can do. No, I said, Ryan, tell me about your event. Who's going to be there? What's the theme? What do they need? What do you think their problem is? OK. Mindset. OK. Getting out of their own way. OK. Overcoming obstacles. I can talk about things like

resiliency, mindset shift. I can talk about perseverance. I can talk about my acronym mindset. I can talk about how you have to have, you know, you have to have that whole process of visualizing, vocalizing, vote vicinity to get to victory, which you need to have to do what? Be successful and rolling on through that process. I said, well, wow, vulnerability creates connectivity. We can talk about that. So I let you talk first. And then I told you after that, what I could bring to the table.

If I was to have barfed on you, what I thought you need to hear, you'd be like, Marcus, thanks a lot, man. Gee, Mick, why'd you bring me this guy? Here's a guy that just wants to tell me all about himself, right? And that's not who I am. And if you're listening, that is the key to winning in business. Active listening, you don't have to flex by speaking. Flexing needs to be done by listening, but we don't teach people that.

And so that's why they struggle. I'm kind of thinking on the fly here and let me hit you with something and you tell me you react to this. So unfortunately with social media, with the way our politics is done, with the way our news is delivered, even the conversations they have on like financial channels, like CNBC and whatever, it is just short soundbites, everyone yelling over the top of each other. And by the end, you're not even sure who said what and what was really said. And it's like everyone just trying to get their one little clip in that then they can take and throw on social media and blast everyone over the head with that.

Okay. And that just is this reinforcement of talking, talking fast, talking over the top of each other. Then you have this counter movement of just incredibly successful, incredibly large and growing independent media outlets like Lex Friedman's podcast, like Chris Williamson's podcast, like Joe Rogan's podcast, even, you know, and Mix is growing like crazy, our good buddy, you're right. And he's kind of cut from the same mold and the way he does it. And it is this long form. Like I ask you a question. I let you go as long as you want. Then, then I, and I listened to you. I take it in. I follow up with a question. I let you go

as long as you can go. Cause you're, you're the, you're the star, right? You're the guest. And then is this – and these are growing at a pace that – so I guess where my question is. We have this one version which seems to be dying, which is this talk over the top of you. Who gets the last word? Who says the fastest, most kind of biting, cheeky thing versus this long form, deep, engaging, you know, and kind of Rogan kind of started this with, he'll ask a one sentence question and let his guest talk for a half hour before he speaks again. Like, do you think our, what we really desire as humans is that more listening, non-confrontational manner of having deeper conversations.

And that's why people are gravitating towards what you're describing. Or, you know, does that make sense? Like I just, that kind of, as you were talking, that kind of thought came to me is like, why, you know, people always ask, why are these long form podcasts and long form conversation formats doing so much better and growing so much faster than traditional. And to me, what you just described, and I had never had this thought before this hit me while you were talking is that could be one of the defining characteristics between the two is that the host actually listens to the guest and doesn't try to talk over the top of them. They actually give them this format to go as long as they want.

That's exactly what we do now, of course, because we're just starting out when we're not just starting out. We've been out for almost for about 21 months. So closing in on two years. Right. It'll be June 22nd, two years, but you were half an hour. But as Mick made me aware and I realized it, but it's so nice to hear a person that loves our show say it. I don't talk over people. I don't. I don't. And I'm all about the guests allowing themselves to speak, be heard, and promote themselves, authenticity, their brand, what they're doing, you name it, I'm all about it. And because of that,

this is where it comes in, I feel, to our podcast having so much success, right? Just like Mix, just like yours, just like Joe Rogan's, right? But again, sometimes people put on podcasts and they interview people and they want to talk about anything and everything that's about their life when a guest says something. And here's the thing. This is not a podcast about you. Yes, it's your podcast, but it's not about you. If you want a podcast about you, have a podcast, no guests. You sit there and talk, go monologue, go ahead and do it to your heart's content. But I'm probably going to tell you at some point, sooner than later, you're going to lose a lot of listeners. What?

I mean, how much can we talk about ourselves all the time? I mean, we put out, what, 300 shows we've done? If I talk about myself at 300 shows, what kind of people will be listening? People who are just like, nobody. Nobody will listen. Nobody will listen. So podcasting and business are very synonymous in which it's all about listening. It's all about hearing people.

It's all about recapping what they said, asking another question that leads down the path, going somewhere. And that's business, right, Ryan? That's business. And that's how people, we've worked for a lot of companies, a lot of people, insurance, finance, construction, like you name it, we've worked for a lot of companies, a lot of people, insurance, finance, construction, like you name it, we've done it. And at the end of the day, right, Ron, everybody we worked for says, Marcus, you listen well, you fit our theme well, you crushed it. The people loved you. You

fit in well, you blended your story to what we needed to hear. You were listening to what we said in the pre-con call. You were listening to what we said when we met the night before. You were listening to what we said right before we had our final walkthrough. And again, right, Ryan? It's hard to keep people engaged for 60 or 90 minutes if you do not understand how to connect with people. And again, it goes back to vulnerability creates connectivity. The more vulnerable you are with people, the more honest you are with people, the more authentic you are with people, right? Again, you talk about finding your peak in your podcast. Getting to the peak, getting to the top, it's not about what you say about yourself.

It's about what others say. You will never reach peak in anything if the only person that loves you is you. 100%. Dude, you could be more on the mark. So I want to shift gears just a little bit. And I want to talk about you. And I want to push people to your podcast, to your properties, to hear the in-depth parts of your stories. I want them to go deeper. And so I'm not gonna, I don't want you to just retell the same story you've told in other places. And, and I know you just did an episode with Mick. That's another great place to get information and, and you know, Mick's one of

my best buddies in the whole world. So anytime I can push people to his podcast, I always want to do that. So, so that being said, you had two big drops that, you know, maybe not, those aren't the only ones, but you had two big ones, right? Coming out of your NFL career, coming out of your construction company. My question to you is why did you keep going? Why, why not? Why not just screw it? The universe is out to get me.

God didn't make me the type of person who could bop, bop, bop. You know, why did you not? It's very easy to go down the dark path. You obviously chose to pick yourself back up in both moments and keep pushing forward in an hour in this amazing place that you're in today. How did you do that? I did that by turning 1V, which was a victim mindset, to a victor mindset. And what I realized is, is that if I'm going to get out of this, I have to pull myself up by the bootstraps. I got to put my big boy pants on. I got to put my belt on. I got to put my tool belt on. I got to put my jacket on, my heart, and I got to work. And that's when it took me to get out of that hole, the rock bottom moment as a custodian. And at that moment, I said, okay, Marcus,

you're always thinking about, you know what I call it? If anybody that loves this show or knows of the show, I call it the Al Bundy syndrome, where I constantly was saying I was a great, now Al says, I was, I was poke highs, you know, most valuable player, four touchdowns in one game, but I was always in the past with Al. Well, that's what I was before that rock bottom moment. I was a great NFL athlete. I was a great successful CEO. I was an eight figure a year business owner. I was making seven figures a year. But when I was saying that in, wow, April, May, June, July, August, September of 2013, it wasn't my reality. I heard this on a podcast and I loved it, right? You can't worry about the past. It's gone. You can't be anxious about the future. It's not here yet. You got to live in the here and now. And when I was going through what I was going through, I was constantly

living in the past, constantly. And I was afraid of what was going to happen next because I hadn't had any success. And instead of that, focusing on the right here, right now, I wasn't doing that. And once I had the rock bottom moment in September, 2013, then I went from a victim mindset to a victor mindset. And at that moment, I said, I got to charge for it. No matter if I fail, win, succeed, don't, whatever, I got to at least try. If I don't try, I'm going to always be just that, losing at every way in life. So I said, enough is enough. And I said, let's get going. And even if you don't go anywhere, at least try. And it took me a while to get there. If you're listening, I didn't get a paid speaking job for two and a half years, not one, two and a half years. So if you're listening,

understand it's not going to come overnight. It's not going to come easy. But the minute you go from victim to victor mindset and you have a strong mindset shift, anything and everything is possible. Where did you get that from? A book? A mentor? Did it come to you from God? How do you – did it just manifest in your mind? Like where did that come from? I remember what Jack Del Rio told us when I was a 22 year old rookie.

If you want to be successful and fulfilled in life, you have to be your own CEO. Jack said, if you sit around and wait for us to tell you when to get to the stadium, what to do, how to do it, all these things, you will not be in the NFL or at least on the Jaguars for long. And I took that and I remembered that at that moment. It's kind of like he was speaking to me again when I was a 20-year-old rookie in the meeting room down in Duval County at Jacksonville Jaguar Stadium. And when I remembered what Jack said, combined with that real moment of saying,

wow, I put myself here, nobody else. Once those came into my mind and once I got a picture of I need to change me and remember what coach Del Rio said, that's when things got better. It's pretty amazing how moments in your life can hit you. And in the moment, it just kind of passes you by, right? Like maybe it isn't the moment you, you, maybe you took that in, you know, Hey, that's yeah, I get that. But you're 22. You know what I mean? You're like, I want to go out there and freaking hit somebody. Let's go. Let's get our pads on. Let's go. Like, I'm good with this philosophical stuff. And then, you know, you, you, but for some reason it sticks

in your brain, you know, you, and, and, and, you know, you obviously had the ability to pull that back out. And, and I think this goes all the way back to the teaching part. And it's, it's, it's why I love doing these podcasts. These podcasts feel selfish to me because I get the opportunity to talk to guys like you, to gals, guys and gals who know so much, who've had so many experiences. And you get just you've all this sinking in. And, you know, I'm interested in now that you are a speaker and I think speakers, the best speakers and, you know, I obviously put this in you in this category are teachers, right? You're not up there pontificating or preaching. You're sharing.

You're giving people ideas, concepts. You have all these great acronyms and sayings you've come up with that help people categorize information in their brain. It's wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. As you've gone through that process, what have been some of the core ideas that came to you that maybe you didn't necessarily see coming? Things that started to have meaning or recurring ideas that kept coming back to you that maybe you didn't plan for. But through the process of teaching, you found yourself really grabbing onto and becoming core aspects of your

practice as a professional speaker and as you operate your life. So really and truly, I started to really pull stories from my life, like the NFL, business, upbringing. And the more I did that over time, the more I saw an impact being made in the first half of my keynotes and in the coaching and the consulting and then moving into the next phase. And then what I really started to lean on then after that, becoming that, like you said, that instructor with the action steps. When I started in the space, I was always just up there trying to motivate. And then I became an inspirational speaker through better storytelling that connected with themes of our clients much stronger, with action steps that were aligned with our clients' values and what they wanted

much better. And I got better at the storytelling to really match what the themes were. And I got better at bringing the value through the action steps that aligned much better with the clients. That's when things took off. And I didn't realize how valuable that was until I got taught that by a client that I spoke for in New York City. And she told me, Marcus, if you want to be a big time, big paid keynote speaker, 10, 20, 30,000 and above, you have to do three things. You have to have great stage presence. You have to engage your audience and you have to educate your audience. If you don't do those three things as a speaker, you will never reach the top dollar. Best advice I ever got was about six years ago.

And ever since then, we really worked towards that. And it's really changed us from a average middle-of-the-road speaker to where we're at now, getting booked large. I'm heading to Cabo Friday for a big job. My client or our clients, 1000 mile travel, their big sponsors and clients who approved kind of us working for the whole conference is United Airlines, Carnival Cruise, and SBRE Technology. So I'm doing that. And I just got booked for a big job in April down in Atlanta for High Speed Alliance Real Estate. I got we got booked for a huge consulting contract with Fairway Mortgage. They're a top 10 mortgage company in the United States. We're going to go to Boston, Baltimore twice, and then we're going to be here in Raleigh.

So working with Living Bank in Houston in October, looking to work with you in October. You know, we're. We're doing some great things, come up with Mick and what he's got going on. But we've learned to remove what we really think matters and we bring to the table what we know the clients know truly matters. I love that. So I want to be cognizant of our audience this time and and yours as well I would be remiss uh if I didn't uh mention the fact that you were a Buffalo Bill 2005 to 2007 uh Buffalo Bills are the greatest team in the history of the NFL by far certainly the best uniforms um and I am highly highly appreciative and guys guys, I just, I'm going to,

I'm going to just say this, take it. Marcus, I know it probably makes you uncomfortable, but Marcus sent me a football signed, Bill's Mafia. Awesome. I get it home. My boys love it. And he goes, wait, you have two boys at home. And I said, yeah. And he goes, are they Bill's fans? So he sent me two more footballs. And now me to my boys have footballs. Amazing. Thoughtful. I did a post on LinkedIn about it, just because I, I said, this is the things that don't scale that turn, you know, people from, from liking your work into lifelong fans and, you know, not, you know, we're getting to know each other and I, and I love that, but it just, it's a whole nother level of experience. And I, and I think it's wonderful. That's great. I had to say that because i think you're quality person i want people to know um but i i have one football question

sure just one football question and i don't want to spend too much time on it but um i have one football question uh is so so i've i've heard from uh other people uh that i've talked to that Ralph Wilson, now Highmark Stadium, really is a home field advantage. It really is a tough place to play. What is the truth to that? I've been on the field as a pregame. I've been able to be on the field and watch the guys. I'll tell you, the first thing I noticed was,

so I played high school football, and for a mid-size upstate New York school, I'd like to believe I was pretty good, but, um, but it's a fairly small, you know, narrow shoulder dude, you know, playing middle linebacker or whatever, you know, I'm pretty small. I'm standing down there. I'm S I'm six foot four. All of a sudden I see the offensive line and the defensive lineman come out. And I was like, this is why high school football players do not become NFL players. Look at the size of these guys. Okay. That's a side story. But so

I've heard from other guys that I've interviewed and just people that I've met over the course of my career, speaking, et cetera, run into played in the NFL that, that, that Highmark stadium, Ralph Wilson stadium at the time is truly a competitive advantage for the bills just because it's a tough place to play. What makes it a tough place to play? What is it about that atmosphere? Obviously, in the Josh Allen, now in the Josh Allen years, it has a whole new energy.

And I'm, you know, as a Bills fan, very thankful to, you know, having lived through the four years of wide right, you know, as a kid, now getting as an adult to experience some success again is wonderful. But, like, what is it about that place? What is it about the fans, the energy? It does feel different. And a lot of people have mentioned that. What is it from a player's perspective that makes that atmosphere different from others that you've played in?

Bills Mafia loves the Buffalo Bills no matter win, lose, or draw. And when you have fans that are truly diehard and not fair weather, fans that will always scream and cheer and be loud for the Bills, no matter if they're up a lot, down a lot, tied, it doesn't matter. And when you have that atmosphere as an incoming player to the team, to that field, to that environment, you know you're going to be in for a loud day, especially when you're playing offense and you're trying to hear the cadence, you're trying to hear the count, you're trying to really get locked into your job and focus, it causes a lot of problems. It causes a lot of hearing issues. It causes a lot of psychological issues at times too, because you know that you're facing basically a 12th man, right? They say that in Seattle, that's because of the elevation.

The fans in Seattle have nothing on the Bills because, again, the Bills went through, what, four years of going and losing. And those fans, yes, they blacked out, unfortunately, for a long time. But the fans kept coming and kept appearing. And here's the thing, too. It gets cold in Buffalo in the second half of the season. And that is another big factor. Teams like Miami, teams like Tampa, Jacksonville, even the Titans. And when you're playing the Rams, the Chargers, the Raiders, if you're an indoor team like Minnesota or these places, you've got to come play in that cold, cold weather.

So that's another factor that ties in. So between the, the, the, the weather atmosphere between the fans, just never, ever not being bills, mafia oriented. It's just a really tough place to play. Yeah. Last question for you that sports related. And I want to wrap up. I talked to a lot of, as a, as a dad who has boys and are

playing sports and this goes for if you have daughters to play sports um there's a big debate at you know my kids are 10 and 8 around the specializing versus playing bunch of sports where as someone who obviously you made it to the pros in your sport did you play other sports do you believe in the the non-specialization you know, playing basketball and soccer or, you know, having other things going? Like, where do you fall in that? What advice do you have for a parent who has a son or daughter who's playing sports and maybe is dealing with this right now? The more sports you play, I feel gets you better condition for the sport that you want to play and doing other things. Like I played basketball for a couple of years growing up, 12 and under the middle school.

I was not going to be a basketball player in high school, but my dad said, play basketball for the running, for the footwork, for the agility, for learning how to play with teams. Because I wasn't allowed to play football in seventh and eighth grade because St. John's didn't have it. We didn't have that. So I needed to do something, my dad said, to get me ready for playing with others, teamwork, collaboration, agility, pushing through adversity. So I love people playing more sports. My daughter, who's nine, she plays basketball. She plays volleyball. She plays soccer and she loves it. And she's very athletic. She does that. And she does a great job. And so again, my nephew, I know he played football. He played a little bit of basketball. He did a little

bit of track. I'm not mistaken. I also wrestle when I was in high school and did track as well. So all those sports, in my opinion, got me ready to play my premier sport, which was football. Love it, my man. I appreciate your time so much. I'm looking forward to working together. I'm going to say one more thing, guys, if you, you know, obviously very selfishly, I'm working to get Marcus into my event. But if you if you are listening to this and you have an event or you sit on a board of an event, this is an incredible speaker who has not made his way through the insurance industry yet.

And having him at your event, I'm telling you, is going to be a defining factor on whether people come back in years in the future. I think that as a keynote and cornerstone of a conference, uh, I couldn't recommend Marcus's work enough. And I hope that if you're listening and you do have an event in the industry, uh, you'll reach out. So, so if, if people either want to look to your speaking to hire you and find out more, or they just want to follow your work and connect with you, where are the places that people should go? I will have them all linked up in the show notes for the episode, but just so people can hear it. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So we have them all linked up in the show notes for the episode, but just so people can hear it.

Yeah, absolutely, Ryan. So we have an app. It's called the Marcus Ogden app. M-A-R-Q-U-E-S-O-G-D-E-N. That's going to be our app. If you have an Apple phone or an Android, you go to your app store, type it in. Boom, you can download it.

You can go to our website, www.marcusogden.com. You can go to our link, which is Marcus. Sorry, we got that without regard. So you can also go to our link, which is marcus360.com. And or you can shoot me an email, marcus at marcusogden.com. So again, we have our app. If you have an Apple phone or an Android, you can just download that right away. You can connect with us. You can go to our website from

there, follow our podcast and get our free exclusive content there. You can just go to our website, marcusogden.com. You can go to our link, marcus360.com, or you can shoot me an email at marcus at marcusogden.com. My man, shoot me an email at Marcus at Marcus Ogden.com. My man. I appreciate it so much with the notion about the best and, uh, look forward to working together in the future. Look forward to my thanks for having me on.

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