The Ryan Hanley Show - Customer Experience Masterclass | Mick Hunt & George B Thomas

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comUnlock the secrets to transforming your customer experience as we challenge the outdated conventions of customer experience. Watch the recording: https://youtube.com/live/xVraIRJPjyU✅ 7 Ways to Make Better Decisions Using AI: https://ai.ryanhanley.com/✅ For daily insights and ideas on peak performance: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanhanley✅ Find Your Favorite Way to Subscribe to The Show: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyYou'll learn the importance of immediate communication and acknowledgment in alleviating customer frustration. By putting ourselves in our customer's shoes, we can create a supportive and reassuring experience that enhances overall satisfaction. Understand why timely responses are no longer a luxury but necessary in today's fast-paced world.Discover the power of empathetic communication in email marketing and customer interactions. We delve into the art of personalized, meaningful communication that makes customers feel heard and valued. Hear our insights on building trust with phrases like "we got you" and balancing automation with the indispensable human touch. Whether through email or social media, authenticity and relevance are key to forging lasting customer relationships and enhancing satisfaction.We also explore the critical integration of sales and service teams for a seamless customer experience. Learn how structured workflows can enhance efficiency and consistency and why publicly embracing negative feedback can build trust and credibility. Our conversation underscores the vital relationship between employee and customer satisfaction, advocating for a workplace where happy employees drive exceptional service. Plus, don't miss our live stream with content creators George and Mick, as they share their invaluable insights and experiences.

Everybody zoom in. Absolutely you should be charging for customer service. It should be baked into your pricing. When you buy plane tickets, calling customer service is baked into that. When you go to Best Buy, customer service is baked into those prices too. Let's go.

Yeah, make it look, make it look, make it look easy. The Ryan Hanley Show shares the original ideas, habits, and mindsets of world-class original thinkers you can use to produce extraordinary results in your life and business. This is the way. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. We have a tremendous episode for you today. This was actually recorded as a live broadcast on our YouTube channel, which you can go head

over to YouTube and just type in Ryan Hanley Show. You'll find the channel. Make sure you subscribe. You can find this video. We're going to be doing more live events coming in the future. We're going to be having special guests, some recurring guests, and today we have George B. Thomas and Mick Hunt on the show. George has been in the marketing industry for more than 20 years.

He's helped some of the biggest brands implement their HubSpot installation, build out campaigns, understand how to use that particular tool for their customer experience needs, and has seen CX, or customer experience, from every angle. Mick Hunt, two-time successful exit from businesses inside the insurance industry, now one of the top podcasters in the entire United States, not just in the business category, in all of the United States. This dude is absolutely killing it. Mick is the man. He's one of my best friends. And this podcast is all about taking on common customer experience, best practices, and flipping them on their head. What works, what doesn't,

where are people going wrong with these commonly held beliefs? We talk about things such as, should you post negative feedback publicly? And if so, how do you do that? How does the under-promise, over-deliver strategy work? And is that even relevant? And should we be doing this in our marketing and our customer experience? Should we charge for customer service? Should

customer service be part of the product? Or should there be an additional fee? And four more commonly held customer experience best practices that we take on, walk through, and give you tactical guidance on how to implement. Guys, this is an episode that just blew me away. And I highly encourage you to head on over to the YouTube channel. Make sure you subscribe, like the video, leave a comment. Where did we get it wrong? What's working for you that we missed? What customer experience best practice have you flipped on your head? Let us know in the comments, guys.

That's going to drive more engagement to that video. And ultimately, you will then be notified when we do new live videos on the YouTube channel with some of the biggest and baddest thought leaders in the entire world. The guests that we have lined up for the Ryan Hanley show, for both the recorded shows that you get most of the time, as well as these new live events, are out of this world. Don't miss it. If this is your first time listening to the show, subscribe wherever you listen. Guys, I love you for being here. Let's get on to this customer experience masterclass. Excited to chat with you guys um this kind of came together for those looking back or are watching live uh mick reached out to george and i said hey uh let's talk customer experience

let's talk about um what's happening right now and and not so much just best practices but what are we seeing that people are doing that maybe we need to stop that might be antiquated or old or just tactics that have kind of run their course and that we, we need to maybe take a different take on maybe, maybe there needs to be a new best practice. So I'm, I'm excited to have that chat because there's a few things that I think are crazy that we still do. And I'll kick it off to the two of you with this. I think it is absolutely insane that there are still businesses out there, many of which are in, Mick, your, my home industry or the industry that

we grew up in, in the insurance industry, that still consider a 24-hour turnaround time on an inbound service request acceptable? Where do we stand on this? What is acceptable? And what are you seeing as best practices out there right now? Yeah, that's a great question. I want to dive into that dialogue, Ryan, for sure. Because here's the thing. People want communication and feedback. The problem doesn't have to be solved.

They want to make sure that they're heard and seen. And I feel like, not just the insurance industry, but a lot of industries feel like some type of request equals work or someone's upset. Well, at the end of the day, I'm going to be brutally honest. It's 2024. We all try to call or we all try to solve our own problems. And the last resort is either an email or a phone call. And so when your people are reaching out to you, whether it's a customer or a prospect, what they're saying is I have a problem

and they want that problem acknowledged and then ultimately resolved. And a lot of times we get confused that resolution has to mean that we make everybody happy. No, resolution means that we provided the right answer or the right solve or the right fix. And so for me, Ryan, when you talk about a 24 hour turnaround, I think it's more we've got to acknowledge and we have to let our customer or prospect understand that it is in some type of flow or process, whatever that flow or process is. No one expects there to be an answer tomorrow, right? Like, your desk isn't whatever your industry is, fill in the blank, ER, right? Your desk isn't insurance

ER. Your desk isn't marketing support ER. So don't treat it that way. What your customer wants is just an acknowledgement that you hear them and that you are going to solve whatever that communication point was for. Yeah. It's so interesting, Mick, to hear you talk about this, because I do agree that communication should be immediate, but the work could take 24, 48, who knows, like a week to do the work, but at least their mind is at ease. And what I want everybody watching this or listening to this, you know, if we slice it and dice it and put it all sorts of places is you got to put yourself in the other humans shoes. Like you might see that request and you might get sick to your stomach and you might

be a little fearful because you don't know exactly what's on the other side of that red dot or that bolded email. But if you put yourself in their shoes, you're right. It's either have a problem or the ones that I love the most is they just don't understand. Like they there's an educational gap from where they're at to where they're trying to go. And by the way, I love those quick answers where here's a knowledge article or here's a video we created or here's a thing I learned, you know, two years ago, two weeks ago or two minutes ago, that's going to get you from here to there. And honestly, if you can get those quick responses, quick wins, get past that like sick feeling in your gut and fear of like, oh, my God, am I going to know what to say to these humans and just engage?

Then all of a sudden we're in a way better place and everything else can come out of whatever needs to happen later can happen later. But they're appeased. They're at ease. They understand that something is happening. The longer you wait. And Ryan, I was sitting here shaking my head. No, vigorously. When you said 24 hours, that's a lifetime. Yeah. Internet years. That's like you're 98 years old by the time you got to 24 hours. So that's at this point. Yeah. You know, so the way that I

think about this and make you alluded to it, um. The first thing, when something goes wrong with any product, the first thing we do is we try to fix it ourselves, right? So hopefully either having used the tool or through training, we know how to fix whatever the problem is. That's what we try to do first. If we don't know how to fix it ourselves. Then we turn to the knowledge base that that company has, right? So we maybe go to their website, see is there a how-to or a frequently asked questions. Maybe we go to their YouTube channel and see did they create a video on how to fix this simple problem, right? So most customers are not going directly to the humans in most industries. Now, granted, your financial advisor, who's the only

one that can make transactions for you, if there's a problem, you're going to might call that person direct. But for most products, for most services, they're going to try to do it themselves. Then they're going to go do research. And only then do they reach out. So my purpose in explaining that process is that we're no longer getting them when the problem just happened. There is now an added level of frustration when they reach out because they can't fix it themselves and there's nothing they found online to help them fix it. So now they're reaching out to you. And if you then tell them, I can't be bothered to get back to you or I'm so busy with other people who in their mind they're inserting are more important than me, so I can't get back to you for 24 hours, then you're toast. They're

going to move on to somebody else. Now, I think as George, you described a simple email or text saying, hey, we have you. It's in our hopper. We're actually solving the problem behind the scenes. We'll reach out as soon as we can. Helps. But in truth, I think this window is like two, maybe three hours at the most. That's like maxing it out to talk to them on the phone. Even if reaching out is just, hey, I hear you. Your words, Mick, heard and seen, acknowledged. I will get back to you. But like if it's just silence, that person's gone. Yeah. And I want to double click on something

you're talking about, Ryan, because, you know, our friend Marcus Sharon talks about frustration, the F word of the Internet. And we have to realize that, yes, they have probably gone through all the things. By the way, they probably went to Google. They might've gone to the latest. Are you tired of endless follow-ups and missed opportunities in your sales process? Chasing leads is a losing game. That's why I created the One Call Close System, a battle-tested sales system that uses behavioral psychology to close deals in just one call. No more, let me think about it. No more, I'll get back to you. Using the One Call Close System, we took new reps from 25% close ratio to over 80% in just three months.

To grow fast, you must close deals faster at zero extra marketing cost. The OneCall Close system allows you and your reps to build trust, address pain points, all while watching your revenue skyrocket. Ready to stop chasing leads and start closing? Visit MasterOfTheClose.com today. Close twice as many deals this time next week. Visit masteroftheclose.com to learn how. This AI platform that they're now asking questions to as well. And so they are coming to us with a level of frustration.

What we have to be careful of is that we don't immediately internalize their frustrations we have to meet them with empathy we have to meet them with servanthood we have to meet them with the but the understanding that they might be frustrated but how are we that frustration fighter like what narratives do we have queued up to actually take somebody who's like at their wits end, steam's coming out of their ears and be like, oh God, George, Mick, Brian, I love you so much. Like, I just feel like you have my back. Cause as soon as you can make those humans feel like they have their back, now you're creating loyal customers. You're creating fans. You're creating advocates or evangelists for the things that you're doing loyal customers you're creating fans you're creating advocates or

evangelists for the things that you're doing and by the way remember a second ago they were like ticked off right yeah we used um at rogue we had this really simple phrase that that i taught everybody to use and i would hammer it over their head. For those that are watching that may not know, Rogue is a company that I started and exited from. We would say, we got you. I would go, guys, all you have to tell them is we got you. Not I got you, we got you. That's all you have to say.

The minute someone explains a problem to you, you hear them, right? Maybe mirror back to them or label what they're saying just so they you're acknowledging that you heard them. And you say, we got you. You could, you could hear an audible, like, like, like the sound of relaxation, right? Like they'd slump down in their chair or they'd exhale. Or sometimes they would like say, thank God or I, and then, you you know, because like that's what people are looking for is. And Mick, you said it perfectly at the beginning. They want to be heard and they want to be seen.

And you have to acknowledge that. And once you do, you've given yourself a grace period to actually go out and figure out what the problem is and solve it. But until they feel heard and seen, they are going to pester the hell out of you. And your life is going to be tough and miserable and hard. Yeah, Mick, I want to swing over to you for a second around that. But Ryan, I feel like there's this human side of me that has to get this piece out. It might my dad used to say this to me. He's like, son, I don't want your lip service like i want you know and so when you say that we got you ladies and gentlemen you have to authentically have them yeah it was like i got you bro and then all of a sudden you just ignore the crap but no like

if you're gonna do business in a human-ric way, then when you say something, you have to have the stuff to back it up, the feeling of importance for them to do it. So, again, don't try to just use a phrase, but make that phrase part of the process that actually makes it true and builds trust. Yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. I was going to say it's 2024. I want to debunk something, a practice that we need to stop. And I'm probably going to lose a whole bunch of friends when I say this. And I don't care. I need to shrink my circle anyway. So it's cool.

It's 2024. Can we please stop email marketing and email marketing campaigns? It doesn't work. It's a thing of the past. And what you're doing to prospects and customers is saying you're one of many, not one of one. Your communication through email and text has to be very personal to a problem, to something that is upcoming. But these spam outreaches via email have got to stop. To me, that's what social media is for now. If you're going to post something, do something, go on social. And if that's not working, it's probably a you problem.

It's probably a you problem. Yeah. I want people to understand what Mick said though, because Mick did not say stop emailing people. Mick did not say stop communicating with people. He just said, stop emailing and communicating with people in a crappy way. Like, and we use the word marketing, which makes me sad around like crappy way. But here's the thing. What I totally agree with you, Mick, is we are in a society, in a world that is so fast-paced. And so what's in it for them, what's in it for me, that it has to feel one-to-one. It can't feel one-to-one. It can't feel one-to-many. And so giving yourself the ability to educate yourself on the platform that you're using to do great email communication and understanding how you can make every message look like it's coming from an individual human and feel like it's being emailed to that specific human that needs the resources, needs the value, has the question, has the

aspiration, like this is a must. So I agree with you. Quit spamming an email. By the way, I might lose friends too. You can send hate email if you want. Quit spamming me on LinkedIn. Like just quit being stupid when you're trying to communicate with us as humans, because you're human, I'm human, and we all see right through it. Yeah, George, you said it perfectly. So I'm going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to push back, but I am, I just want to add a little nuance or my own nuance to what you're saying. I, I think one cold standard email, I can just tell you numbers wise doesn't work. I'm sure there's some internet marketer

who can write long form, whatever the hell and get people to do something. I'm sure that there's exceptions, but the vast majority of us, 99 plus percent of the companies out there are not gonna be successful with cold, flat standard email. Just, it's not gonna happen. That being said, I'm a huge believer in email with a purpose,

but it all has to go through the construct of what George just said. What's in it for them? When you write the email, what's in it for them? The minute you send someone an email and you think about your own life, when you open up your inbox, right? And you're scrolling through and you're making the toughest decision of your day, right? Which emails am I going to open? The ones you open are the ones that you feel have the most value for you. That's what you do. Yet then we'll turn around and we'll send out a marketing email, even if it's an email that somebody opted into, that is, look at all the cool shit I did.

Look how amazing I am. Come watch my video or come do this thing or buy my product or whatever. And it's all about me, me, me, me, me, and not the person you're emailing. So when you write an email, I have, you know, a couple of there's there's courses that can help you. There's copywriting stuff. You can find a lot of most of it is free.

You can use YouTube and find people that will help you craft different narratives. But, you know, I use a simple three step process that I've used for almost every piece of content I've ever created, which is the story grid process, which is basically beginning hook, middle build, ending payoff, right? And everything is hook, tension, build, hook, tension, build over and over and over again, right? All through the construct of what's in it for them. And if you can craft a message that way, again, cold, flat, standard email being tossed away. I'm talking about maybe someone downloads an ebook and now you want to sell them on a consultation, right? Whether it's a service-based business or whatever, that email has to be crafted

so that every sentence is adding value to the reader, not to you. And it's a difficult thing to do at first, but once you kind of start to get the language down and understand how it works and how to reframe it, this is the key to any of these communications, whether you're doing cold video outreach, whatever, like this is the key, what's in it for them. Yeah, the two, I love what you're saying, Ryan. And I just want to piggyback on it. Two things that I think about, and honestly, this is when I'm crafting email or when I'm creating any type of copy is how am I using this to evoke an emotion? And how am I using this to unlock their imagination to get them to ask, is it possible? Is it possible that I can do this thing or get from here to there? And when

you use those two levers to what you're creating, it puts you in a different perspective and direction than what we, and again, I'm a marketer. So I've put on that like metal helmet that like makes you quit thinking when you actually go to like create things. And like, it's just not a good look. And so that little like hook in there of evoke emotion or the kind of unlock the imagination really helps me when I'm trying to craft that copy. Yeah. So I have a couple more of that. Yeah.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Oh yeah. I came up uh in preparation i i just wrote down a couple kind of ideas that i have that i felt were kind of contrarian um and i'm going to toss them out to you two guys and get your feedback the first one i'm going to give uh uh mick you you give to you first to do. AI, automation, these things are amazing, right? But I still believe that

there needs to be some friction in the process. That if we go too automated, too AI, all of a sudden, what makes our business special, the edges start to get too smooth. Do you think there's truth in that? Do you think where's the happy medium? How do you walk that line? Like where are you on that particular topic? You know, I'm a process person, right? So what problem are you solving with the process?

Like what is automation? What is AI doing for you? So what problem are you solving with the process? Like, what is automation? What is AI doing for you? What is it solving for you? And ultimately, what does it mean for your customer or prospect, right? Because, you know, the theme of this is the modern buyer, the modern customer meeting people where they want to be met. And not all are the same, right? Like, what's important to Ryan, I can promise promise you is vastly different than what's important to me. And so I think, Ryan,

that's where the friction comes into play, right? So it's like, okay, I'm going to put everyone through stage one. And then there's going to be some logic or decisioning that's then going to move everyone to somewhat of a personal process or a personal role dependent upon whatever those variables are. And, and again, I'm going to lose friends over this. I'm good. Everyone, you can't treat the same, right? It's okay to not treat people the same. And it is also okay to know that you need help building this out. And by that, what I mean is if I know, okay, perfect scenario, this is what I want to do, right? But I know there's going to be hiccups. How do I fix the hiccups? And then the best part to me is what's the best avenue to get help to

get this done? And so I can be very transparent, right i hired george because i didn't want to try to figure it out right like like i didn't need to try to figure it out what i needed to know was this is what i need my end result or end results to be and yeah there are things that george puts automation in for me there are things that george uses ai in parts of processes for me, but it's because he understands where I'm going and he's not going to mess it up where that's not what I do, right? Like that's not what I do. I could take the time to learn it, but then I'm not scaling my business. And so when we talk about the modern customer, the modern employee, like we have to understand that authenticity matters, that one-to-one matters. And one of George's things that I love about George is making them feel like they are

the most important person at that time, making them feel like they are the one. And so if I'm using automation, I'm thinking through that. When Ryan gets a communication from me, whether it's a social post or it's a video that I'm driving Ryan to, Ryan needs to feel like I did that for him because I understand his needs. And so for everybody that's watching or listening, understanding that you can no longer put everyone in a box. You can no longer say, okay, I have 500 customers and they're all going to get this message. And I just brought on 20 new customers and they're all going to go through this exact same process or flow because that's not what the world expects anymore. So George, I'll lob it over to you or Ryan, you can disagree with that if you want. Yeah, I actually want to double click on

some things around this conversation because Ryan, I'm glad you brought up the idea of friction. It's actually a two-sided coin because a modern business owner needs to think about force and needs to think about friction. The unfortunate thing is when you bring up force and friction in most business conversations, they think force is positive because they're pushing it through the funnel and friction is negative. And I always am trying to get people to challenge that thinking because it's friction that lights a match. It's friction that makes your brakes work. Like there is good friction and there's bad force. And that's the thing that we need to pay attention to is it's not always good or always evil. And what's funny

is when I think about this, because you brought it around the thing of AI and automation, which by the way, when I think about these conversations, I usually go in like, should it be automatic? Should it be automated? Or should I find a way to augment the human? Like, so there's kind of these layers to what we're talking about here. But what I want everybody to kind of understand is that the friction points that matter are the friction points where it should be human interaction. Exactly. Where your sales team should be asking the right questions. It's where your service team, a human, should actually be listening to the story of what went wrong. And so, yes, you can augment,

automate, or make a bunch of things automatic. But where does the human need to step in and apply the proper friction so that the proper force actually gets us to where we're trying to go? Yeah, I love that. And I'll add on only this thought that we need to be reengaging the type of client and the segment of the client throughout their life cycle with our business, right? You may bring someone in and they're just a small purchase or a small client and they come in and they're in your lower level segment in terms of what service level they get. And then they buy another product from you and then they join a program that you have and then they become, you know, they start moving up the chain. Now, if you're not constantly dipping into your customer

pool and understanding where they are now, you could have someone who should be in your VIP program, right, in terms of service level, who's getting entry level service, and then they leave. And you're like, and you don't understand why you don't understand what went wrong. And it's because today's business environment, set it and forget it is over. And all these things, people are constantly changing their their work, they may be making $200,000 one year, and the next year, they're making 75 or vice versa. They may go from one200,000 one year, and the next year they're making $75,000 or vice versa. They may go from one job to three jobs. They may add, you know, their family may split.

Their family may come together. There's all these different things. They may move geographical regions. There's a million different reasons why their level of service segmentation may change. But if we are setting them on one level and don't have a system to go back in and audit that, we're going to create major problems. So wonderful. Ryan, I got again, I'm doubling down on what you guys are saying, because where my brain goes with this is you have to have a smart CRM, customer relationship manager, which, by the way, I'm even kind of battling against it being a customer relationship manager. I think it should be a communication and relationship manager because that's really what it comes down to with the

modern buyers and what they need. But when I hear you talking, Ryan, it's like, okay, you have to have this smart CRM. You have to be focused on data hygiene because at the end of the day, what you're looking for is behaviors, patterns, and possible potential. Because out of that possible potential is where you can go back to what we were talking about with Mick is like, I see the behavior, I see the pattern, here's the potential, here's the one-to-one feeling email, here's the setting that sets that makes them VIP, here's the things that I'm looking at from a dashboard and reporting standpoint to actually be able to visualize what's happening with the big data inside my smart CRM. And so there's layers of this to understand that it's like instead of looking through like foggy old like Coke bottles, you can actually have a really powerful set of lenses on your face but it's through this unified CRM this data

hygiene clean data and then being able to diagnose out of that what the frick is actually happening what's going on George for the the people that are listening or watching and they're either in between CRMs, they don't have one, they're looking for one. What should you be looking for minimally, mentally out of a CRM for this modern customer now? Like what are three or four things that your CRM has to be able to do in order to be viable today? Yeah, definitely. So first of all, it needs to help you simplify the complex. So if you need a college degree to figure out how to get your CRM set up, implemented and be using it, then we have an issue. So it just has to be able to like,

turn it on, look at it and kind of fundamentally understand it or have a massive set of resources that you could dive into, learn, and actually execute the things. But when we think about CRM, one, we have to be able to be able to customize it. And when I say customize it, I mean, it has to be able to be customized to what your business needs. One of the things that I talk about, and by the way, I'll just throw this out. I use HubSpot. I teach HubSpot. I help clients with HubSpot. But one of the things I'm always talking about is you got to be able to wrap HubSpot around your business instead of feeling like you're squeezing your business into a CRM system. So you have to look at the capabilities of customization. The other thing that you have

to look at is how can it help you not destroy silos? Because by the way, sometimes silos in business is a good thing. Remember that positive friction, but how do you get those silos to at least work together? So this CRM should have channels or abilities to do marketing stuff, sales stuff, service stuff. In other words, what I'm talking about is you should be able to pick up a RevOps mindset and have your entire organization be using that CRM and the tools that are part of it or integrated with it. And this makes me lean into if you're a business out there and you're using what is a Franken system, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of this, trying to tie it all together, then you are in the wrong spot for the modern buyer. And so, again, think about this holistic, multi-department, communication, relationship-building machine that is easy to use.

Like, that's just – that's table stakes, by the way. I could probably talk about this for the entire hour. But you have to, listen, you have to take the step and you got to implement these things because the other side of success is the struggle that you're going to have to face to get everybody on board, get the employee buy-in, get the process set, because it's going to be all about the platform, the process, and the people. And when we can get all three of those lined together, man, we're going to hit some business magic moments right there. So George, I want to double down on something that you just said, and I'm going to flip this to Ryan though. So George said that your CRM should have multi-department usage. I think there's been this big social realm, societal realm, that CRMs are for salespeople only.

And I totally agree with you, George, right? Because, again, we're talking about this modern customer, your modern buyer, where your service people, your customer service representatives, your leadership all have to communicate with the customer through a journey. And if your CRM isn't being utilized as a complete customer journey map, you're failing. So yeah, that does mean, yeah, my customer service representative needs to know the CRM too. My managers need to be in the CRM too. My leadership might need to be in the CRM. Ryan, what's your take on that? I completely and 100% agree.

This was the, a lot of the flailing that we did early on at Rogue Risk with technology was in search of what you just described, was, you know, how you can expect sales to operate on a funnel, kind of classic Kanban funnel system, and then tell service they need to work on a list of tasks that looks like something that came out of one of those computers that, you know, from green screen in the 1980s or whatever, like, it's crazy. Additionally, so you're just in that lack of Kanban sales flow functionality, you're losing efficiency in your service team to begin with. Two, sales, service should be part of sales, and sales should be part of service to a certain extent, right?

Obviously, that has to align with expectations of the team and compensation and type of product, et cetera. But I find it very hard to believe that separating those two departments completely, giving them different workflows, which understand the medium is the message to a certain extent, right? I know that's a commonly used cliche in marketing, but it's true in this as well, right? The salespeople are thought to think in a flow and a structure and get them to this stage, get them to this stage. But then our service people are just given a big open screen with a note section and say, hey, service this account. And it's like, well, have we contacted them yet? Have we started the process?

Did we assign it to an owner? But if you want them to think as a flow and consistency and doing things in a regimented and consistent manner, there needs to be both a visual and data structure that allows them to do that. Now, there are plenty of modern CRMs that allow you to. Some industries purposefully limit your ability to do that because they want you to hate your job. And Mick and I are both very familiar with what that industry is. But this to me is just a non-starter. If you're not giving your service team an easy flow system that works very similar and in conjunction with the sales team, you're going to have lots of problems. So I have to double click on what you're talking about, Ryan, because you're talking about, Ryan, because you're talking about sales and service, but I'll go on record right now.

And again, you can send me hate mail if you want, but the best marketers know how to sell and the best salespeople know how to market. Like you have to embrace both mindsets to truly be amazing when we're talking about the modern buyer. And what I want us to also think about with this modern buyer is why what Ryan said about service is so important. And a focal point is so many times when

we talk to business owners, it's about generating more traffic, generating more leads and closing more sales, but they're forgetting the back door. They're forgetting one of the most important words that is retention. Because you know what? You wouldn't need so much traffic, leads, and new sales if you actually had the people that weren't escaping out the back door every three months, every six months, every year. Again, this becomes a mindset of they're focused on transaction instead of relation. And again, the modern buyer is looking for a relationship. They want to know, and we've said this, I got you, boo. I'm here for you for the long haul. And what I want us to realize is that every touch point from the beginning to the very end is the buyer's journey or the customer journey. But the fact of

the matter is it is a journey and we have to be there every step of the way, sales, marketing, service, to produce what is the most important words that I hope people take away from this is that today it's about creating a great user experience from the go to movies. We want to experience. We go to Disney World or Disneyland. We want an experience. We take our wives, husbands or whoever significant other out to a dinner. Why? Because we're trying to create an experience. How is your business creating an experience for the people that you're so actively trying to get there? And how are you trading, treating them like humans through that actual experience? Yeah. All right. I'm going to take a quick, quick pause for the audience here. If you're, if you're watching live or you're watching in the future, uh, uh, watching the recording of this, leave a comment. If you have a question about something related to customer service,

it could be a particular tool that you're using a question you have about that. It could be a process, some sort of cliche or best practices that you heard, or maybe that you're using, a question you have about that. It could be a process, some sort of cliche or best practices that you heard, or maybe that you're following, something you're considering. Type that into the comments here, and we will make sure that we get that question answered as we move into what I'm going to call the lightning round of this conversation. So I have five topics. Okay. I want you guys to try to limit your answers to say 90 seconds, right? 90 seconds. Try to keep them quick. We're going to be punchy here. Give the audience something fun. We want to be quick. Choose your words carefully. Okay. And I'll throw these out and George, we'll start with you. Embrace negative feedback publicly.

Yes, no, and why? Oh, without a doubt. Look, we all know that we have mistakes. We all know we screw up. If we try to hide them, you're not being authentic. If you handle them in public, the people can see how well you handled them. If you handled them well, which by the way, you should have processes in place to handle them well. But yes, absolutely. You shouldn't hide anything. If you do, it erodes trust. You want to build trust. And so handle the things in front of the people in a way that is making you look

like you are a good human doing good business. Yeah, I love it. I don't think anyone expects us to be perfect. Yeah, I totally agree with what George said, and I'll take it even further. People do want that authenticity. None of us really believe that a business that's been around for 50 years has five-star review. Their average is a five, right? And so people look at that and they want that. They want to see what's going on, what's happening. And here's what I'm also going to say, handle the negativity the right way.

Just because you handled it, if you were snappy, if you were defensive, right, that's not the right way. So handle everything with grace. Yeah, there's nothing worse than when someone leaves a piece of negative feedback that isn't just vitriol, right? That is like an actual piece of negative feedback. And then the business owner will be like kind of sarcastic or like you're like, wait a minute. This person is actually doing you a favor. They're telling you something that's not working. Like you should thank them for what they said. Which by the way, before you jump forward,

that was the dopest Scrabble word that you just threw into this conversation ever. So that good job, brother. Yeah, Mick's probably gonna make fun of me for that. Mick, this one goes to you. I go to you first, okay? So this is lightning round question number two. Over-promise, over-deliver.

Yes, no, why? No. I mean, you know, the old cliche is under-promise, over-deliver. My thing is just freaking deliver. You don't have to over either one. You don't even have to promise, right? My thing is have a standard and deliver. And then everything else takes care of itself. I think we get too caught up in cliches and these promises, and I have great customer service and we give you immediate gratification. Well, that doesn't mean great service, right? So my thing is just deliver, deliver when you say

you're going to deliver and everything else takes care of itself because every situation is different. Yeah, I love that. George, you got anything to add there? I mean, the only thing I'll add is like, just stay in reality. And a lot of these things that we're taught to do around this conversation that you just asked the question around, create these falsalities because we're trying to make ourselves look better than we are. Just be you, be real. And like Nick said, deliver the junk, man, deliver the goods.

Yeah. I mean, marketing is just setting expectations for what the product is going to do. And a lot of times I think we get caught up in this under promise, over promise, you know, all this kind of stuff like that, like because we feel like one or the other is going to be some sort of marketing hook that like opens up the floodgates of money. And it's like, no, people have problems. They're looking for providers of products and services to solve those problems. And if you properly set expectations and deliver, you're going to be all set. So I'm with you guys. I think that both are. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say there actually is no such thing as over delivering, by the way. You can't over deliver. You can over speak. You can overwrite,

but you can never over deliver.. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome, awesome. All right. Let's move on to lightning round question number three. Should we charge for customer service? George, should we charge for customer service? Yes, no, and why? See, that one's rough. So part of me says no, but then my brain is

divided because part of me wants to give the greatest marketing answer ever, which is it depends. So I think there's a layer of service that should be free. But as somebody who helps humans, I know that the asks never stop being asked. And if you give everything away for free, sometimes they don't even pay attention to the free advice or support that you gave. And so when you get to a certain level where maybe they have to pay for a little bit of what I'll call the advanced support. Now it was attached to their wallet, which for some reason their wallet is attached to their brain, which then makes the words come out of your mouth actually more important than they were

when you gave them away for free. So that's a mixed bag answer, but I'm torn because I believe in supporting or serving the humans, but I also believe in supporting you staying in business and not being this like potential suck of your time and day and energy as well. Yeah. Nick.

We get to come to Mick for this one right here. Everybody zoom in. Absolutely. You should be charging for customer service so much so that it should be sorry it should be baked into your pricing if you're not charging for customer service then what are you doing if you have a customer service team you should be charging for customer service so for me absolutely you should be charging for customer service. So for me, absolutely. You should be charging for service because every other business does as well. They just don't say here's an additional fee for

service. When you buy plane tickets, calling customer service is baked into that. When you go to Best Buy, customer service is baked into those prices too. So yes, you should be charging for customer service. Absolutely. I love it. And I tried to, being that this is my first live stream here, I tried to make my initial attempt to make you the solo. You said everyone zoom in. I actually took you off the show for a brief second.

So I apologize for that and apologize for everyone watching at home. All right. I agree. I'm a firm believer that especially a VIP level of service should certainly be. If service is baked in, I actually think that if you have a VIP, a red velvet rope version of your service, a white gloves or whatever version of your service, velvet gloves, whatever you want to call them, that you can charge an additional fee for. But completely agree with whatever you guys said. In my opinion, free customer service is maybe just your how-to or frequently asked questions

videos on your website. After that, it has to be baked into those spreadsheet. And it's funny, I did a keynote in Canada a few months ago, and I was talking about the cost of service. And I thought, and this was a wake up call for me, which I love when this happens, right? In my mind, everyone calculates and understands the cost of service to their business. And I brought this topic up with that assumption, and I got 300 blank stares. They were not following that thought. And I go, wait a minute, we're going to go off script for a second here. We need to talk about the fact that your service team costs you money beyond just their salary.

And if you're not baking that in to the cost of goods sold for your product, you're losing money. Like that's where your margin is going. Like if you don't understand what those numbers are, like there's a big piece there. And that was a huge awakening to me. And Kiki, appreciate your comment. Obviously, you're well aware of this. And this is the case for so many businesses, insurance or otherwise, that they just, they are not, they think about the cost of sales. They think about what their payroll is, but they're not looking into what it actually costs to service them and then finding potentially tools or processes that can fix that. So, all right, lightning round question number four.

Should we limit customer choices of communication, or do we have to be a catch-all for everyone? So we're just going to say, we'll start with Mick, since George, you got the first one last time. Mick, yes or no, we should limit customer choices of communication and why? So I'm going to say no, because I don't think we know where communication is going right now. And so I think if you have a hard limit today, when this new wave of innovation happens in six months, you might be behind the game. And

so I'm going to say you can't limit it because we don't know where this is ending or going, right? I mean, again, it used to be phone call, email. Now we have text. Now we have social. Now we have communities that you can build, right right like you don't want to limit yourself because we don't know where the end game yeah great so it's interesting because my brain went in a totally different direction with this question ryan and i think maybe it's because we're coming off the question around support. My brain went to how I've gone down this road where, oh, well, we can talk in ClickUp, or we can talk in Google Meet, or we can talk in Slack, or we can talk via email, or we can talk, but yeah, go ahead and text me on the weekend, or yeah, call me because you've got my phone number. And so I went from like that side of it where actually I believe that there should be specific channels.

And this is customer focused right now. I'm not saying anything about what Mick said as far as like communication to the world of, you know, should it be on TikTok or SMS? Yes. Pay attention to all of that and wherever that's going to be moving forward. And by the way, figure out how you're going to get your brand into the latest AI platform as well to communicate with them when they're not even trying to communicate. But from a customer side of this and a support side, I am definitely becoming a quick learner or advocate of, okay, here are the channels where customer communication should happen. Because otherwise I've realized we've created this level of complexity that they're

confused where they should actually communicate with us. So I know that's longer than 90 seconds. So my side of it is, yes, it should be limited communication per customers, but not for the rest of the world, if that makes sense. It does. I fall in, there are trade-offs to both. You have to do a opportunity cost benefit analysis on what you want to do. Easier to manage less channels. You're going to lose customers or lose communications if you do. Harder to manage more channels, but're going to lose customers or lose communications if you do. Harder to manage more channels, but giving people choice is often the best method. And a lot of times with omni-channel communication, meaning someone might email you, then text you, then call you, then text you, then email you, and being able to capture all that, difficult but possible,

or just more difficult but possible. And I think that elevates the customer experience. I also think Mick is right. We don't know where communication is going. And I think being on the forefront of communication methods is good. All right. Last lightning round, although I'm not sure this is more like a rolling thunderstorm than it is a lightning round. But I think it's all that it's been very good. We will wrap up after this question, but I saved it for last because I think it's one of the more important topics around customer experience. George, it's your turn. So you get to go first. Oh boy. Prioritize employee experience over customer experience.

Yes, no, why? Ooh, wow. If you understand that the employees are the ones that create the experiences for your customer, then you realize that you need to double down on the experience of your employees so that they're knowledgeable, they're happy, they understand the core values and principles that you want to portray as a business. Because, listen, you're not going to be able to be there to do all of the touch points and all the interactions. So while I am a big believer that customer experience is the end all be all, I think providing the best customer experience is by focusing on culture

and creating that employee experience that is super dope, which again is why I love a unified, omni, multi-channel, simplified CRM, multi-department system that I can put those employees in to help them equal success on a day in and day out basis. basis? Mick? I'm torn because I personally feel like it is hard to deliver the employee experience. It is so hard to get the employee right because our moods, our mindset changes with the wind, right? And so to really be in that, you've got to have, to George's point, the right culture. And that could take five years to get right. I'm going to be very honest. It could take years to get culture right. So I think you are always working to improve employee experience, but you have to master customer experience because without customers, you ain't got employees. So I was in more of mixed camp until a recent podcast interview that I did

with a guy by the name of Chris Devers, Devers, sorry. He wrote a book with a coauthor called Brave Together. Book is phenomenal. Phenomenal. Highly recommend everyone pick this book up. So these guys, in conjunction with a couple of research firms, did all did a national study for national companies. this isn't necessarily for like a local shop, but for national companies. Customer satisfaction is tied within five percentage points to employee satisfaction. Nike and Adidas. Nike has a 94 percent something. He was within a few standard deviations. We'll call it low 90s employee satisfaction, low 90s customer satisfaction. Ad satisfaction, both in the 60s for customer satisfaction. And then they have a million other case studies. And it wasn't, and this was a week ago, two weeks ago. It wasn't until that conversation that I was like, that it pushed me over the edge to, I think you have to

set the path for customer experience that you want to see as a leader. But then you have to do everything you can to put the right people with the right, I like the word chemistry, not culture, into your business and on those tasks that they can actually deliver it. And this dude just has the research to back this up. I was shocked when he said that. I was blown away. And I kind of haven't been able to stop thinking about it since. So so that's kind of where that is. I want to say I

appreciate the two of you. I appreciate doing this first first live stream for me here on the channel in almost five years. I went back and looked. I hadn't done a live stream on YouTube in almost five years. And I think it was wonderful to have the two of you on. It was great. I hadn't done a live stream on YouTube in almost five years. And I think it was wonderful to have the two of you on. It was great. I think this conversation was fantastic. Appreciate everyone who came on and watched. Guys, if you have questions about customer experience, reach out to Mick George. These guys are experts. I'm not an expert. I tend to hate customers, but that's why I always hire somebody. I tell this story all the time. My mom called me about a month ago and she goes, um, she goes, so this is how the call started. Hey, right. What's up? Uh, nothing. What's going on? So I tend to surround myself with empathetic people so that they can care about the customers.

That's tongue in cheek. But leave your questions in the comments, guys. If you're watching, George, Mick, they'll be notified. They can jump back in the comments or just reach out to them directly, connect with them. If you Google either one of them, you'll find their names. Their stuff is all over the place uh uh uh both have phenomenal content and i just couldn't appreciate the two of you enough for coming on here and uh being my guinea pigs for the very first live stream for the channel so uh thank you so much i love it and appreciate you brian

definitely yeah awesome all right thanks. That's with Go Pats. Josh Allen's the truth. We're out of here. Peace. Be sure to subscribe and leave us a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts. Close twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible? It's not. With the OneCall Close system, you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call. This is the exact method we use to close 1,200 clients in under three years during the pandemic. No fluff, no endless follow-ups, just results fast. Based in behavioral psychology and battle-tested,

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