The Ryan Hanley Show - Franchise Secrets: From 0 to 326 Units in 18 Months | Aaron Harper

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

Join our community of fearless leaders in search of unreasonable outcomes... Want to become a FEARLESS entrepreneur and leader? Go here: https://www.findingpeak.com Listen to Audio version: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanley Stop paying $500/month for 8 different marketing tools. Try GoHighLevel's all-in-one platform free for 14 days → https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevel Passion is a lie. At least, that's what today's guest, franchise mogul Aaron Harper, argues. In this episode of Finding Peak, Aaron dismantles the conventional wisdom that you need to be passionate about your business to succeed. Instead, he reveals a contrarian approach to building a profitable, scalable, and AI-proof business empire. Aaron, the man who took a family-owned power washing business and scaled it to 326 units in 35 states in just 18 months, shares his framework for identifying and acquiring businesses with massive potential. He explains why "boring" businesses are often the most profitable and how to avoid the ego traps that kill most startups. If you've ever dreamed of owning your own business but don't know where to start, this episode is your blueprint. Aaron provides a step-by-step guide for aspiring entrepreneurs, from developing a business acquisition checklist to understanding the real costs and challenges of entrepreneurship. In This Episode, You'll Learn: Why you DON'T need to be passionate about your business to be successful. The 3-step framework for finding and buying a profitable business. How to build an AI-proof business that will thrive in 2025 and beyond. The #1 reason most businesses fail (and how to avoid it). Franchise secrets from a CEO who grew a company to 326 locations in 18 months. Connect with Aaron Harper: Rolling Suds Franchise: https://rollingsudsfranchise.com/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/AaronHarperCEO LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaron-harper-ceo/ YouTube:  ⁨@rollingsudspowerwashing⁩   Recommended Tools for Growth OpusClip: #1 AI video clipping and editing tool: https://link.ryanhanley.com/opus Riverside: HD Podcast & Video Software | Free Recording & Editing: https://link.ryanhanley.com/riverside WhisperFlow: Never waste time typing on your keyboard again: https://link.ryanhanley.com/whisperflow CaptionsApp: One app for all your social media video creation: https://link.ryanhanley.com/captionsapp GoHighLevel: It's time to take your business workflow to the Next Level: https://link.ryanhanley.com/gohighlevel Episodes You Might Enjoy:From $2 Million Loss to World-Class Entrepreneur: https://lnk.to/delkFrom One Man Shop to $200M in Revenue: https://lnk.to/tommymelloIs Psilocybin the Gateway to Self-Mastery? https://lnk.to/80upZ9 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

the part that people don't understand about franchising. There's the power washing business, and then there's the franchise business. Those are two completely separate businesses. They take different skill sets, different capital requirements, different infrastructure. Everything is different. I don't pretend to know how to own and operate a power washing business that I've never learned anything about, or an H-FAC business I've never learned anything about. What I do know is how to create a franchise business that can replicate any other business that has the right systems and processes in it. Hey, I want you to keep running your great business. And your business is so great that I want to put it in every single market across the country and

potentially across the world. Before we get into, you know, some of the parts that I really want to examine today, for my audience's information, just give them like the quick 10 cent tour, right? It doesn't it. We don't have to go back to childhood or anything, but Just give them some relevant highlights, and then I want to get into the meat and potatoes here with you. Sure. So I've been in franchising for years. People often don't know what franchising is, but franchising is this kind of small industry that leads. Small group of people, it seems like, that lead a large industry of franchise brands, not just fast food.

That's only about 50% of franchises out there. I specialize in home and commercial service franchises and have had the opportunity now to help. build three home and commercial service franchises to become the largest brand in the world in that respective industry. So a carpet and floor cleaning brand that we helped build about 3,000 units, 55 countries, then a drywall repair brand that I built from 98 units to 323 units nationwide in about two years. And then decided to venture out on my own instead of working for other people and making them a bunch of money. I was like, wait, I can do this on my own

and looked at a bunch of different brands to franchise that were non-franchise that had good bones that I could replicate. And I met the founders of Rolling Suds in September of 2022, and it was the best business that I looked at, family business from, you know, started in 1990, focuses on residential and commercial power washing

and specifically those services. And I knew I could come. kind of replicated in any market. So I raised capital. I acquired the brand in January of 23. We took the brand to market that year. And since then, we've grown to 326 units operating in 35 states with 115 trucks on the road. So what I love about the space that you're attacking specifically, and I have so many

questions around franchising. But I love that you're attacking these, we'll call them, like physical business. right? With everything that's coming with AI, I mean, you look at, you know, you just go to McDonald's, right? I mean, that business is changing rapidly. I mean, it's a franchise, but like it's changing rapidly with the way AI does things. I was in one the other day that was like brand new or looked brand new or maybe it was a full remodel that like, yeah, there were, there was only one person in back handling the food and all the orders were being taken by a machine. So instead of like six people, there's only one. I mean, there's so much. But with what you're describing, you know,

These are businesses that will not be replaced by AI. I mean, AI, for the foreseeable future, hopefully in our lifetime, AI is not repairing drywall. It's not, you know, power washing the outside of buildings. It's not doing these different things. It's not carpet cleaning. Yeah. So was that part of your methodology? Was that something that you considered when you went into the space?

Yeah. So like I specifically like the blue collar businesses because they're need based. They'll happen no matter what. and technology will only continue to get more and more advanced. And so my thought was, well, hey, this is the space I've been in. It's even more of a safe space to be in now than it was, you know, when I first started due to a lot of these technologies. So when I was looking at different brands, like it was only service. Like it wasn't like I was looking at like food or, you know, health and wellness or beauty.

like it was just like services around the home. When you say looking at brands, I'm very interested in like when I think franchise, I think there's probably most people that are listening, right? The idea of owning a franchise or even being in that space, most of us and don't maybe mentally lock in until the idea of you've already created the business in a box. And now I'm considering whether I want to buy into a.

franchise but where where you have expertise that I think is so interesting and this is really where I want to dig into is you found a business that wasn't franchised and then you were able that you then package it up into a franchise that you now have the 326 units of so like when you're going out one why why start your own franchise in that way versus just find something that you thought you could own like a geographical region for right something it was already together and then how do you go about finding that if if someone listening is super entrepreneur and wants to follow your path like what are you actually looking for when you dig into a business like that yeah so I had a very specific methodology of how I

approached the search I said all right I'm going to get a checklist of things that I'm looking for in a business so like some of those things were like unskilled labor high margins for franchisees so that there was still enough like margin for a franchisor to take a royalty and a franchisee to still make money like there was a whole list recession resistant large total adjustable market both residential and commercial customers and that once i had that list then i had the framework in which i could go look at businesses based upon and it was just a less emotional decision because it was like okay what what are the things that how many of this how many check boxes does it check and

I established my list based upon recent acquisitions in the franchise space from large capital companies. So I went and called large companies that I knew that acquire these types of businesses. And I said, what do you look for when you are acquiring a three, five, six, seven thousand unit franchise system? And so whatever they told me, I then included it in my list. So then now I'm like, okay, I have my rubric. And so then I looked, I basically just let everyone that I knew know that I'm looking for this type of business, service-based, blah, like, whatever.

And that my goal is to have that person continue, or that business owner, continue to run their great business while I create a different business. And this is the part that people don't understand about franchising. There's the power washing business, and then there's the franchise business. those are two completely separate businesses they take different skill sets different capital requirements different infrastructure like everything is different um and i don't pretend to know how to like own and operate a power washing business that i've never learned anything about or an hfack business i've never learned anything about what i do know is how to create a franchise business that can replicate any other business that has the right systems and processes in it

And so it was very specific of what I was looking for is like, hey, I want you to actually keep running your great business. And your business is so great that I want to put it in every single market across the country and potentially across the world. And so that business is largely my business. Like, I'm the majority shareholder and lead investor in this business that I own. And then they keep owning 100% of their business, which then gives them upside in the new business that they don't they didn't have before um and so to answer your second question of like why wouldn't i just go buy a geographic location and own and operate a brand in like Nashville and oh you know open a bunch of locations in Nashville it's not my

skill set um running corporate owned units of a power washing business is also significantly different than running a franchise, right? A franchisor is a coach, a mentor, has legal, cut some kind of legal knowledge of how to, like, structure these types of things. They're oftentimes a therapist, marriage counselor. Like, there's, like, a bunch of different roles that you would wear as the hats that you would wear

as a franchisor in any given day, and those are typically much different hats than you would wear as the owner and operator of a local service business. So one of the things you said when you were putting your framework together and was the framework itself allowed you to be less emotional in decision making. Why is that important and how does a framework help you do that? Yeah. So I always tell anyone who's looking at buying a business that they should have a checklist.

It's kind of like, like, think about it like this. Like if you're going to go buy a house, you're going to know you want a yard in the backyard. You're going to know you want to be in this type of neighborhood with this type of school district. it's going to want to be like in this range of a square footage. You're going to want this many rooms, this many bathrooms. Like you have your checklist. If you didn't have that, you're just like, hey, realtor, show me houses. And they're like, what kind of houses?

Right. And so with franchising, like we don't bring in people who have typically power washing experience. We bring in sophisticated people who are coming from a white collar background. They've maybe worked at a business that they've been an employee at. or they've owned other businesses that have been successful. And so there's a lot, oftentimes it's their first business. And so I'm like,

you don't need to be passionate about the business. You need to make sure that you feel comfortable doing the needs of the business. And like what is the actual means of a power washing business? Well, we're a B2B sales and marketing company that does power washing. Like we do 60, 70% of our business is commercial, which takes longer sales cycle. It's being in your community. It's shaking hands. It's being the mayor of the town.

So that's a sales business. Whereas like if you get into like commercial cleaning or residential cleaning, like it's a recruiting business. Like you're going to lose people and you just need to keep recruiting. Like there's a demand for cleaning clearly, but you're going to lose people. So it's like what is the actual business doing and like what do you like doing and what are you like doing and what are you good at? on a daily basis and that's how you kind of become less emotional it's like do i want to do that thing and how many of the boxes does it check which i know will make the business successful if it checks 80% of the boxes or 70% of the boxes or whatever it is i want to i want to dig into

this idea you don't need to be passionate about the business because that to me feels very contrarian I think most of the talking head people that you'll see on Instagram or wherever, it's find something you love to do. If you don't love to do it every day, then you're not going to show up every day. And I will tell you as someone who has built their entire career essentially inside the insurance industry, insurance is boring as hell. I am not passionate about insurance. I appreciate its value, right, and what it does for the people who use it and how it works.

Like, I have an understanding of appreciation for it. But I'm not passionate about insurance. Like, I don't wake up in the morning and go, geez, I hope travelers has a new rate filing today that I can read. I can't wait for that, right? So, like, one, how did you, how did you kind of create this contrarian idea? And how do you break it down for people who are sitting there going, well, geez, Aaron, if I'm not passionate about it, then, you know, how do I not get bored in, you know,

12 months or 24 months? Yeah, I think there's a difference between being passionate about owning a business and being passionate about, like, the thing that you're doing. doing in that business on a daily basis. Like, I'm passionate about building wealth and providing value to my employees and my, the franchisees that join. Like, that, that gives me joy. And I'm, I'm passionate about that.

But, like, it doesn't matter if it was lawn care or power washing or roofing or whatever. Like, it just, it's just being, being excited about business that it doesn't necessarily need to being like, I'm going to like be in senior care because I love working like my grandfather, you know, died, blah, blah, blah, blah, like all that I think can really get in the way of like which business is going to make the most amount of money and will I be successful at it on a daily basis. The other thing is like when someone owns a business or when someone starts their first business,

they're learning the game of business as much as they're learning whatever business that they're in, right? And so, like, your first time in owning a business, like, it doesn't need to be some passion project that's, like, you know, going to, like, change the world or habitat for humanity. It's like, you just need to learn how to operate a business. So the more simple the business is, the less learning curves there's going to be in the other part, which is just learning how to be a business owner. And that's what we really try to help our franchisees understand is, like we can give you all the systems and tools that you need to be successful but you still have to have the stomach and the ability to go through the pains of being a business owner and it's

going to be scary and terrifying but like once you get passed through that like you're going to be a stronger person on the other end and so I just don't think it's necessary to like I got to believe in like cleaning people's homes and like making them feel a bit about their homes like sure that to be part of it. But like, how are you going to, how are you going to operate and successfully run a business? I think this is such an incredible point. I'll tell you, we have never dug into this idea this deeply on the show. So this is really exciting for me because I love when we, we get into stuff that I believe in, but we've never actually dove into. Inside the insurance industry, I've talked about this a little bit where what we see or what I see and when I'm maybe

working with a new insurance agency owner. You know, I've worked a lot of owners outside the industry now, but for a long time, I had my primary experience working with business owners was with insurance agency owners. And I got absolutely lamb-based at one time. This was about a decade ago. It was like mid-20 teens. I was doing a keynote, and it was,

they wanted a Q&A portion, so we're doing Q&A. Okay. And, you know, this was on like some sales of marketing. marketing strategy, inbound, whatever, and we get to the end and I get this question of, you know, with everyone you've run into, what do you see as defining characteristic between a successful agency and an unsuccessful agency or a stagnant agency? Most insurance agencies print money, but they either grow or stay stagnant, right? So like a failing insurance agency is really one that just isn't growing. It's actually a wonderful business model,

incredibly hard business, but wonderful business model. To my point, my answer was there are insurance agency owners and there are insurance business owners and those are two very different people. And insurance, what I hear you saying and I completely agree with your take is whoever is at the top of the pyramid, right? Whoever the buck stops with needs to be a business owner.

And when I see major problems in insurance and I'm sure this is what you see in franchise but this is where I want you to expand a little bit is... I see agency owners and how I define the difference is the agency owners still believes they're the best salesperson in the business or they're the best customer service person in the business and they haven't relinquished the task of the business for the running of the business. Is that kind of what you're saying and obviously what you've seen? Ultimately, if you start a business, the goal, your single goal is to hire great people

that will build the business eventually without your direct involvement. And so learning how to do that is harder than learning the insurance business. And so what a business owner has to do, or the power washing business, what a business owner has to do with their first business is learn how to run a power washing business successfully and then how to be a business owner successfully. And those are two very different skill sets. and what we try to help our franchise owners do is like think about your business like an asset like you are creating an asset and like if you don't want to create an asset like honestly

like business ownership might not be the right thing like just get a job dude like you don't have to carry all the weight terrifying like element of like Emma is this going to work out or not everything's on the line like you know so just keep staying a job but if you're going to invest in a franchise and spend two, three, four hundred thousand dollars getting into a brand. The idea is that you're buying into systems that you can execute on that will theoretically, over time, help you remove yourself and create layers in between you and the business over time. And where you see most business owners struggle and is that they don't let go of those things. They don't create the barriers because the risk associated with pre-investing in the business, hiring people

before you need them, and taking profit that maybe you don't even have yet, and putting it back into the business to grow for where you're going to be two years from now versus like right now is scary. Most people don't have the risk tolerance necessary to be able to do that. And it's evidenced by out of a hundred people who start a business, nine of them will get to a million dollars in revenue, nine percent. And so if you think about a business doing, let's just call it 10 to 20 percent margins, right? Like if you have a fast food restaurant, you're doing 11 percent margins. Like, that's what you're doing. So now you have a business that's doing a million dollars, which let's just call it 11 percent margins. That's a little over 100 grant.

that your net profit is, it is going to take significantly more capital investment than $11,000 to get that business to a million dollars in revenue because you're going to need people, marketing, all these different things. And so then you've got to go from a million to $3 million, which is like the death zone for any business because you don't have enough capital coming in from a profit standpoint to pay for the team that's necessary to get you to $3 to $5 million. So you're, again, you're potentially raising capital, you're reinvesting, you're doing whatever it takes. And so this like game of like, how do I like remove myself? How do I create barriers is in itself hard enough versus trying to make the business so complex because you're passionate about it.

Like, who cares? It's going to be so hard. You might as well put it on as close to on easy mode as possible by picking a simple business that doesn't have a lot of complexities. If you know me, you know I'm prone to shiny object syndrome. And to be honest with you, I was drowning in marketing tools. ConvertKit for emails, HubSpot for CRM, landing page software, automation, webinar software. I was paying over $500 a month and spending half my day just switching. between these different platforms. Then I discovered go high level.

One platform, one login, everything I need to run Finding Peak, the podcast, the newsletter, speaking business, coaching business, all of it. Over a million and a half businesses have already made the switch, and now I know why. If you're tired of juggling tools, I got a special 14-day free trial deal for listeners. No questions asked, no contracts. cancel any time you want.

Simplicity scales. Go high level is the answer. To get the deal, click the link in the description, whether you're listening on Apple or Spotify or even watching on YouTube, this, my friends, is the way. What do you think it is from my psychology standpoint that so many business owners fight creating systems?

Like this, I mean, when I, I mean, I've done enough interviews, I'm sure you have too, with guys like yourself who just, they, they, you probably see the world in systems, right? You see things happening and you're like, I think I kind of see the system this guy or this gal is using to get to this thing, right? And the highly successful people, you will not meet a highly successful person who doesn't have many different systems that they're using to automate activities. Okay. And then, but that's this tiny little portion. And then you have all these other people, both owners and leaders, non-owners, etc. And they just fight and scrape and don't document anything and create from scratch every

time. And then they sit there and they buy workshop after workshop and $27 PDF after $27 PDF. And they never actually implement those systems. What one, maybe break down why you see that happening, what the mental barrier is if you have a thought on that. And then how do you start to crack those people open and convince them? that even very simple systems in some of the easier places can create massive lift in your day.

And the biggest thing for me, when I started really diving into systems in my business in my life, was the amount of stress and anxiety that went away. Like, all of a sudden, you're only anxious about the things that you should actually be anxious about, not the hundred little tasks that are happening throughout the day. Yeah. So I think most business owners don't have the necessary. foresight that they need to create the systems, think about the business owner that's the top salesperson at the insurance agency, and he's the agency owner. That person needs to sell all day

long, right, to get enough revenue to pay potential more team members, which means that for him to get out of that role, he's running the business in the morning and in the night when it's not during business hours where he can be selling. Okay, so that's now whatever, 16 hour day, let's just call it. And he doesn't even know what systems need to be created because maybe him himself in the sales process isn't using any systems.

He's just using his personality to close deals. And so I think the amount of work necessary that it takes is not necessarily an amount of work that everyone wants to do. I also think that there's like a lack of knowledge around, like, what do I need to build in order to not be doing this all day long? And then, like, what you're talking about is, like, could be an ad for franchising because you don't have to do all of that. Like, you can just be like, tell me what I need to do to execute. And, like, you have the marketing vendors.

You have the call center. You have the bookkeeping company. You have the marketing vendors. Like you have all your technology, like all that stuff takes a lot of time and a lot of money to create. And like you're going to, you're not going to do it as well as someone who's done it 326 times nationwide. And so it's like, how do you remove these like these potential risky elements of owning a business? And it's like you either have to do them yourself, which means you have to have the intuition and foresight to create something that is meaningful that you can step away from. or you buy into a franchise or a mastermind course

or something else where they tell you exactly how to do it. But then you have to have the humility to not be the person driving the business forward. So I'll give you a very clear example of this. I hired a professional CEO to run my company about two and F, two and a three months ago. I knew when launching this business that once we hit 300 units,

I would not be the one to get us to 600 units. Like, it's a different skill set. I am a founder that creates things from scratch, and I'm a zero to one guy. A 300 to 600 guy that's systemizing a 300 unit franchise system that's going to have three to 500 trucks in the road within the next four or five years. Like, that is a different human. But if I didn't have the foresight necessary to know that that wasn't going to be me, my business would stall out and I wouldn't be, it wouldn't grow because it would be limited

by my own beliefs that I'm, I'm the only person who can make it, make it grow. Another example is like we needed to come in, I needed to come in and help build a department out, right? So since we, since he's taken over, I've said, okay, there's this department and he's asked me, hey, let's, let's build this out the right way. So I'm getting in this department, I'm doing the working in the business. I'm recording all of my calls. Then in the morning and in the night, I'm pulling the transcripts out for those calls.

I'm creating scripting. I'm recruiting team members in the morning and in the night. I'm making sure they have the scripting. Then I'm training them on how to do it. Then I'm qualifying in making sure they've done it. And I know that in January, February, like, I won't be necessary in the business again. but that takes like an incredible amount of foresight and incredible amount of humility to be like

yeah I'm not like my business doesn't need me and I'm going to I'm going to prove it yeah I love that I mean humility to me is the key I mean I did an entire TED talk on ego and and TEDx talk on ego and I couldn't agree with you more I mean what I've seen over the course of my career is to me the reason most businesses stagnate at best or fail at worst can ultimately be derived down to ego. You could say it's a market shift. You could say it's, you know, there's a million reasons why I think they get categorized

and put into like, you know, McKinsey studies. But if you really dig all the way down, my personal experience has been ego is always the reason, right? Someone somewhere couldn't put their ego aside, made a decision, didn't make a decision, did something, didn't do something that ultimately led to the demise because they couldn't set aside their ego. And it is literally a superpower to be able to be confident in yourself while being humble. And we're not trained on this, right? We're not trained on this at all. There is no class you can take in school. There's no class you can take on

in college that trains you on how to be a confident, you know, high agency, assertive person while still having the humility to say, I don't need to do everything to own this business or I don't need to do everything to be the CEO. I mean, one of the things I talk to some of my coaching clients about is like, you know, what, what is, you know, again, there's like a lot to this, but essentially it's what's your job title, right? And they'll tell me what it is.

And most often it's CEO or president or founder, whatever they call themselves. And I'm like, that's a job. That's not an identity. That's a job. So what is the job? of a CEO is the job of a CEO to do all the business development stuff is it now granted there may be a season where you need to help but like what what are you what is the actual job

function and if you're the best business development guy or gal then they you need to consider what you did which is find someone who's the best CEO for the business and then you go be the head of business development or the head of sales if that's what you love doing every day right doesn't take away from your equity it doesn't take away from your position on the board or whatever, you know, decision-making structures or, you know, you have in place. But it's like, own the job that you're in. And, you know, if you're trying to have that title that makes you feel good about yourself, but then do all the work, you're not actually that thing. You're not actually a CEO. You're actually the head of customer service. Or worse,

you're just a customer service person because someone else is actually the head and just giving you service stuff to do. I mean, it's bananas. Um, You know, I think, I think just to put a recap, too, on your, on your psychology, why people don't do this. I think some of it, too, is, like, the pain we know. We would rather deal with the pain of the lack of systems that we already know than what if I put this system in place and I get a new problem that I'm unaware of or something. You know what I mean? Like, it's like the pain we know we'd rather live with. So I think that's, I think that's really good.

So let's say someone's sitting out there. Let's start, I want to start from scratch. So let's use me as an example, right? I'm at a point in my career where I have started thinking about, you know, do I want to be in insurance forever, right? I don't know the answer to that is yes. I've been in it for a long time. I love it. I'll probably always have one foot there, but I'm very interested in other challenges, other businesses.

I also have felt disconnected from my local community because for the last 15 plus years, my work has been national, not local. So I've never, you know, I haven't really done business in this area that I live in. and I don't really, you know, other than going to a few charity events, etc., I don't do too much here from that standpoint. And so let's say you have someone like me who feels fairly confident in running a business, but honestly, it might take me like a day to figure out how to unscrew a light bulb, right? So like zero handiness, right? Don't want to owe to food business. If I were going to look at a franchise, I would probably want to go someplace in the direction that you're in. How should I start my journey, right deciding do I own do I start do I like how does this journey start for someone like me who's

thinking I got 20 to 25 years a really solid hardworking business years left I would I'm considering franchising like how does that journey start for me yeah so I always I always say that figure out what you're good at it sounds like in insurance as an insurance person you're probably doing a lot of sales I would imagine. So whatever you've been good at that people have paid you a salary to do for a long time is probably a good indication of like whatever the function of the business is to get it going to do first. But I would tell you to identify a checklist of things you're looking for in a business. And this is not a checklist of like, oh, home services, wellness, it's like, does it do well through recessions? And why? Is it skilled

or unskilled labor? And why would you go with one or the others? So think about it through that lens and get that checklist down. And then, you know, whether you want to start or buy really depends upon you. I think there's this mentality and I think a lot of it's been put put forth by a lot of influencers that you can just go buy some existing business for zero dollars down that someone's just going to give to you right out the gate and you're just going to be able to step in. It's got $300,000 in cash flow and all you have to do is reinvest that cash flow and build the business from a million to $4 million. And it's like, I think it's a bit of a fallacy, candidly. I think that if someone's willing to give you their business for $0 down, then it really probably

doesn't have a significant amount of value anyways. What people don't understand is if they're buying someone else's business, they're buying that person's constraint. So they have to learn how to figure out that business owner's constraint and also learn how to start a business at the same point. And if the business owner, after owning it for 10 to 15 years, can't figure out the constraint, meaning getting it to the next level, what makes this first time business owner think that they're going to be able to figure out the constraint in a business that they don't understand? And there's employees that have to go along with buying someone else's business. There's all these things that can happen. The seller can compete with you afterwards. They can take their brother-in-law

from there. Like, there's all these things that can go wrong. Now, there's a lot of things that can go wrong in any business, even a franchise when you start one up. The thing I would recommend is that if you are going to invest in starting a business, find one that you're going to enjoy doing, meaning you're going to enjoy what the day to day is going to look like. If it's sales, in this case, that would make sense. But also, like, think of it. But also, like, think about the opportunity cost associated with starting something from scratch versus starting something with a franchise versus starting buying an existing business. Like starting something from scratch is going to require a lot of innovation and a lot of like

luck and a lot of like these things have to go right and obviously hard work. Starting a franchise is going to say I got to find the right brand that I believe in and I have to believe that that brand has the ability to continue growing and create value nationally so that I can then focus on growing my local business. And so figure out, you know, you can look at brands and say, hey, how many boxes does this brand check, which helps kind of that framework. Or if it's an existing business, expect that you're going to spend 18 to 24 months of your life looking for an existing business to buy. That's just the reality. And it's getting more and more competitive now to buy an existing business than it's ever been ever. And so there's more buyers than there is

supply of great businesses. And so those are the things I would kind of think through. I think AIs are really good lens to look at things through. You know, what is the business going to look like? Oh, I'm going to go buy a marketing company. This marketing company is doing $1.2 million. And so I'm going to buy it for a multiple of its 400 grand in cash flow. It's like, I think that maybe in two years, that marketing company could be run with one employee and, you know, 16 chat GPT agents doing things, 24-7, not like eight hours a day, like 24-7, right? So it's like you have to really consider these things before you decide to make a life-changing decision and kind of which bucket to go toward. But I think starting with your skill sets of what someone's currently paying you

to do and then like thinking through the lens of like you know what what kind of check is what kind of check boxes am I looking for would probably be a good place to start one of the concerns that that comes to mind would be like let's say um let's say I'm looking at a carpet cleaning franchise right so I'm saying hey uh I think this is going to continue to be an issue people's lives are busier, you know, parents, especially, you know, two income households, no one, there's no stay at home person, simple things like, you know, making sure the carpets are clean and making sure the drapes are clean, all this kind of stuff. Like, it's incredibly difficult to have the time or paying, okay. But I don't know that business at all. I know sales. I know

how to run a business. I feel very confident in my ability to turn a profit out of a business and grow, but man, I don't know if my employees are doing a good job or not. Like, how do you, how would someone like me who doesn't have an expertise in that thing isn't necessarily passionate about the thing but sees the value how do I ensure quality how do I feel confident that I have the right people doing a good job you know when I say they're going to etc how do I get past that hurdle I mean it's systems right I mean that's that's all you have to have the systems in place to do quality control you have to have the systems in place to recruit good team members You have to have the systems in place to have a bench of potential other team members that are working part-time that you could put in full-time when someone doesn't show up and expect to turn over.

I mean, if we're talking in specifics around franchising specifically, a lot of this stuff should be created in terms of like job postings and what you're talking about. like what are they doing on a daily basis, SOPs, how are you checking up on them, what kind of quality control? Like, ideally this should be created by a franchise brand. But, I mean, people, no matter what business you're in, it's a people business. And so people will always be your biggest problem, whether it's employees, bad customers. There's just a variety of different, and generally it's a people problem. So finding great people is the single biggest leverage thing you can do to build a business that doesn't need you is finding great people and inspiring them to do great work.

But it is still your job to inspire them to create great good work. Like a CEO's job is to create a vision that's large enough for all of these other people who are going to help you grow that vision to fit their vision inside of. right and um and so that's a really important piece of it but i mean when you start something from scratch you are doing everything like you because the business needs you to like what you're like coming in with venture or like a product that you've got to build for two years and burn cash on like generally like a service business is going to require you to be the salesperson you're going to deliver i mean with our model they're going to require to they're hiring two people that are going to run the truck so that the business owner is focused

on sales and revenue generating activities on a daily basis, at least initially. But like, you're going to be working 18 hours a day. Like I have conversations with some people that will pop on my calendar. I don't know how they get on my calendar, but they'll be like, oh, I've got 15 hours a week and 250 grand, I want to put it towards a business. And I'm like, man, if I could run a business and build the two to three million dollar business with 15 hours a week of a team member. Like, I wouldn't franchise my business.

I would just, I'd just hire four or five team members and pay them 15 hours a week to do the work. And then I'd build these, like, it's like, it's like crazy that people think that they can create great businesses without actually putting everything they have on the line to make that work. And this, this person, this avatar you're talking about that state, that's been in a company for X number of years has, has an income and a mortgage and three kids. and private school and car payments and all of this stuff that's making $225,000 a year, that is one of the hardest places to be as someone who wants to start a business because you have to be willing to forego all of that, put it all on the line,

work harder than you've ever worked, have an almost unrealistic belief in your ability to execute on that, and then you have to wake up every single day not knowing it's going to work, but work your life off like it's going to have to work. And meanwhile, you're going to have pressure from bills and this and your wife, you know, all of a sudden is changing her lifestyle. Like, there's so many things that you have to do to make it work. But you get to a point where you are the chairman of the board of your own company. And you can leave for four weeks and go to Michigan with your family.

And no one's calling you. and the business is making money while you're existing. And so it is like the greatest possible thing you can get to, but it's going to take really hard work to get there. Yeah, it's funny. A lot of, you see a lot of stuff about golden handcuffs online. You see people talking about this. And I will say that I've struggled with this at different points in my own career

with, you know, do I start another business? Do I, you know, start a multiple, exit, multiple businesses, et cetera. And I have this entrepreneurial spirit. There's also part of me that, you know, loves coaching and helping people. And you kind of get caught in this place where you're like, you get used to that.

You know, you build a business to a certain level. You get used to a certain lifestyle. And now you're like, do I want to kick myself in the nuts again for another three years starting a business from scratch again? Like, do I want to do that? Do I want, you know, these are, and they're real questions. And I think what isn't talked about enough, particularly on this topic, is like,

Like, what, it almost goes back to the ego issue. It's like, what do you actually want out of your life? Like, do you want to be a business owner? There is tremendous fulfillment, tremendous reward. Your brain is going to be popping all day. Sometimes with good stuff, sometimes with bad stuff. But you're going to be engaged. And if that's what you're looking for out of life,

then starting a franchise or starting a business for scratch or whatever, is a wonderful path to do that. But at the same time, you're not going to have the country club membership. Your kids probably aren't going to be able to go to private school or whatever, you know, luxury things you want out of your life. And then the flip side is, if, you know, if you're okay, not being the shot caller necessarily, you can go get a nice corporate job, which can still be engaging and fulfilling. But yeah, you're going by someone's hours.

It's not necessarily you get to choose whatever you want to do. You have three weeks of vacation and that's what it is, et cetera. But in exchange, you have these are the lifestyle issues. And I think too often we get caught in, again, the ego of I want to be a business owner. I got, you know, my two friends over here, they're business owners and, you know, people want to ask them questions and invite them the thing. And I want to be that. But they don't want to trade, they don't want to trade the lifestyle for what those guys had to do or those gals had to do in order to get to that position. Because no one talks about the 10 years it took for them to be in that position.

And that's the part of this conversation, I think, gets lost. so often is what do you actually even want your life to be on a day-to-day basis? Because this decision dictates that and there's no way around it. Well, yeah, and these people oftentimes, and this is one of the biggest challenges that franchisors and franchising as an industry faces, is these people you're talking about with the country club membership, with the three escalades that they have at their house and the kids in private school and the $400,000 a year salaried folks. who have been in the same kind of industry for 20 years

and have built a great life are looking about ways to diversify because they've heard online that the richest people in the world have seven, an average of seven streams of income. And they're like, well, I've done stocks and I have some real estate holding, so now I'm going to go franchise.

And so they'll type in semi-passive franchise opportunities near me into Google. And all of these brands will pop up because these brands, they want to get more franchisees in. But what ends up happening is they can't leave their job because they have $400,000 worth of expenses annually and all these things. And so they come into a brand. They hire a manager, which, just to be clear, a manager is not a business owner. If the manager was a business owner. He wouldn't be a manager. He'd go start a business. And then they'd say, well, I can just like, I'll just like, you know, do some business development, like one to two hours a day. And they

invest 300 grand into a semi-passive franchise opportunity. And the franchisor, maybe through either ignorance or just downright, like, lying, signs them up thinking that they can be successful or telling them they can be successful. And then you have a person who's in a work, situation than they were before because now they have to pay out of their $400,000 salary a manager and all of their normal expenses with the hopes that that manager is going to get them a return on their $300,000 investment. We've already talked about the math. It's a million dollar business on a 20% margin is $200,000, let's just say. It's going to take a lot more than $200,000 to get to a million dollars. And the likelihood that

that the first manager that you hire, or really any manager that you hire, candidly, is going to be able to take that business from zero to one with 80 to 100 grand salary. It's just crazy to me. And so oftentimes this will happen where it's like, well, I can't leave my job. And it's like, well, then don't sign a 10-year franchise agreement that's going to obligate you to royalty minimums and like opening schedules and cap-ex expenses, like all these things. but a lot of the franchisees that come into franchising are coming in under that guise and under that assumption

and it's one of the biggest problems that we face as an industry. So you're one of the largest influencers. You have one of the largest platforms in the franchise space and I'm sure that a lot of people come to you with opportunities, ideas, right? Like I'm sure very much so you are in the nexus of what's happening. When you look out over the space, like what are, are you the most excited about? Like, is there a certain type of business? Is there a technology? Is there a concept? Like, what's got you jacked up about the space in general?

Yeah. So I'm super excited about this kind of like next generation of franchisors and franchise professionals. I think in a lot of ways, since franchising kind of like started and was commercialized in the mid mid 50s and, you know, McDonald's became like, oh, wow, like this can really actually work as a business model. I think what ends up happening is like during that time, you have people that are like, oh, well, this is a get rich quick scheme for me as a franchisor or franchisee. And over time, as a result of a lot of kind of the way these things have been structured, you've had a lot of really big flops.

You've had Quiznos. You've heard about Subway. And everyone hears about these things. No one ever hears about the franchisee that's got 28, two men in a truck, truck, trucks that's making, you know, $16 million a year in his business. No one hears about that guy because he's just running his great business. They hear about these terrible, terrible things. And what I'm really excited about is I don't believe that the next generation of franchisors

has the same mentality as two generations ago of franchisors or even the Gen X generation. I think the millennial generation of franchisors and franchise professionals thinks about the franchise business model in a much more opportunistic way. versus like a more kind of like sit down and shut up and eat your vegetables kind of way and and so what I'm seeing so I lead a mastermind as I don't charge anything for it but it's invite only for other franchisors that are in the service space and collectively we meet there's like eight of us and we collectively between all of us have like 4,000 units and we meet for 90 minutes per month and then twice twice per year and talk about different topics.

And the innovation in the way that they're thinking about things is unlike anything I've seen in any of the previous generations of franchising. And this isn't to like knock the other generations. Like we wouldn't be here without the other generations. But if like us as like older millennials, whatever, like we just think about things differently because we were raised in a different environment. And so you're seeing some of these people like I'm one of them. I've got some other friends, like building really great brands with the right amount of money

coming into it, with the right idea, with the right amount of infrastructure, and really kind of like setting an example for future franchisors that are like, oh, that's the way we're supposed to do it. Oh, it's going to cost over a million dollars to franchise a business. Oh, I don't have that amount of money. Maybe I shouldn't franchise my business or franchisees here. oh, I'm going to have to be full time and I'm going to have to leave my job that pays me 400 grand a year. Maybe I'm not going to do that because I'm not ready and prepared and I don't have the risk tolerance to do it. That's good, by the way. That's great for franchising that those two people and those like that franchise or in that franchisee don't franchise. Like that's great

for it. But I think where we've had is like this like, oh, everyone should get into franchising. And it's like that's not the case at all. So I'm excited by that and a lot of the friends I have in the space that are thinking about things. differently. I would definitely say the uneducated, um, understanding of franchising is that you show up with a suitcase full of cash and you get a business that runs itself with you putting limited effort in. And that's not correct. Right. And I, I love that we've kind of blown that up today because, and what I've, what I've heard today, uh, in many regards is, is essentially running a franchise is no different than running a

regular business, non-franchise business, in so much as it's going to take a ton of work, it's going to take capital, it's going to take attention, focus, operating in your particular zone of genius, hiring out the rest. I mean, these are just,

it's just a different type of business. Like if you don't feel like building the brand from scratch, if you don't feel like building the systems for scratch, but you believe in what the business is doing, then you can kind of maybe skip the line on a, few of those things, but ultimately the labor of getting it to escape velocity is exactly the same. You're going to have to do all these things. Yeah, the only difference is, is basically if you think of like a business as like you as a job and you're going to bring

tools to the job, like the business is the job in this metaphor, you're going to have significantly more tools with a franchise than you would otherwise, which means, individually that job that business is going to take longer and be more risky because you don't you have to create all this thing you have to create the hammer you have to create the wrench like you don't know what a wrench looks like yet whereas if you buy a franchise or you go into a franchise like those tools exist and maybe you have to like iterate on one of them or tweak one of them because it's different in your market versus like Pennsylvania or whatever but like you still have the tools all the SOPs are written all the suppliers are chosen all that kind of stuff

But the actual stomach of that you'll have, that you have to have in order to build a successful business does not matter whether it's a franchise or a non-franchised business or you're acquiring it because you're still going to have the same amount of mental unease starting this company that you're still going to have to get to escape velocity. You just have more tools in your toolkit with a franchise than starting from scratch on your own. what question haven't I asked you like what's what's something relevant here that we've missed is there anything that we we haven't dove into in terms of maybe who shouldn't franchise yeah let's hit that yeah so um so a franchisee has to be entrepreneurial but not too entrepreneurial a franchise a franchisee has to be able to follow systems and and and and not go against and want to create all their own systems right so like the the best franchisees i see and i've done you know i've been responsible for helping over 700 businesses start across the country um

they're like give me the playbook and then i'm going to do exactly that right um and then after they figure out how to do exactly that then they're going to iterate on different things and then going to learn from them and then we're going to implement it across the system, right? If the person who's wanting to start a business, if someone's listening to this and they want to start a business, enjoys creating things from scratch, coming up with ideas, breaking things until they work, a franchise is not good for them. Like they should not buy a franchise because what you're inevitable, what you're paying a royalty for, which by the way, you pay forever.

You know what I mean? Like it's like, it's not like, oh, you only pay it for. a year. Like, you pay your royalty for forever. What you're paying for a royalty fundamentally is to not have to create that stuff from scratch. And so I've seen franchisees buy into a brand and they will, they will literally, like, immediately start questioning all of the things that the brand is doing. And it's like, there's no reason to buy in the brand if you're just going to say, tell me why. Tell me why I need to understand. Like, just say, does this work? work for other people? Yes. Okay, great. I reasonably expect that this will work for me if I do the

same thing. And so that person shouldn't franchise. The person shouldn't be a franchisee. A franchisor who has a great youth enrichment brand, if they are not 100% able to step away from their youth enrichment company where they are no longer needed at all in the business, that person should not franchise their business. Because they're going into a different business now that they have to learn from scratch, which is the franchise business. And if their business isn't systemized enough and they haven't learned how to open another location somewhere else on their own, there's no reason to go start a franchisor. And oftentimes people, franchisors will think, oh, well, I'll just like sell like five, ten franchisees and like, they'll just pay me royal fees forever.

It'll be mailbox money. It's like, no, you need to get to $50 million in system. wine sales to make franchising worth it. $50 million. It doesn't make sense if you can't get there. And that's going to take all of your time and the franchise order is a complete startup again. Like you're starting up a completely new business. And so these are things that like people don't know when they think about franchising

because they're just typing in semi-passive franchise opportunities near me or how do I franchise my business.com and they are not being told these things. Aaron, I know there's going to be a lot of people listening to this who are interested at least in learning more, where do they go, how do they connect with you, how they get deeper into your world, uh, have questions about franchising or, or even rolling suds and that kind of stuff. Like, where do they, where do they go to get to go deeper into your world? Yeah. So anyone who's interested in becoming a franchisee, we're looking for empire builders and people who want to build sizable pressure washing

businesses. Um, those folks can go to rolling suds franchise.com and see if their territory is still available. If it is, you'll get on the phone with someone from my team. If you want to just continue to learn more about the journey and franchising in general, like you can follow me on Twitter, Aaron Harper's CEO. You can look up Aaron Harper, Rolling Suds on LinkedIn. I post every day. I share experiences of what's going on. I try to synthesize the knowledge that I'm getting and put it into like understandable, readable content. You can follow me on YouTube if you type in Aaron Harper, Rolling Suds YouTube, like, that'll come up. So those are some places to follow along.

Even if you don't want to be a Rolling Suds franchisee, or even if your territory is sold out, I try to put out as much value as I can as it relates to just franchising in general. Dude, I appreciate you. I could go, you know, we didn't even get into like general business stuff. I mean, it was awesome. They can go listen to the show that we did together for your podcast where we talked a lot more Scaling podcast, yeah, exactly. But, so guys, I also have the link to Aaron's podcast and specifically the one that we did together where I was on his show.

Bro, appreciate the hell out of you. Look forward to the next time we connect. Thanks for having me on, Ryan.