The Ryan Hanley Show - Learn This Skill If You Want to Build an Audience | Shawn Anthony

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comUnlock the secrets of successful podcasting with our guest, Shawn Anthony, founder of PodProMax. Go deeper in the rabbit hole: https://linktr.ee/ryan_hanleyConnect with Shawn AnthonyWebsite: https://podpromax.com/Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/schools-over-now-what/id1405269030Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shawnranthony_/Gain exclusive insights into the commitment and strategic thinking necessary to thrive in the podcast world. Shawn passionately reveals why everyone should seize the opportunity to showcase their skills and knowledge as a podcast guest, even if hosting isn’t for them. We'll juxtapose the unique experiences of being a host versus a guest, offering practical advice for leveraging both roles for maximum personal and professional impact.Journey with us as we explore the essence of curiosity in podcasting. Discover the art of crafting authentic, engaging conversations by embracing spontaneity and moving away from rigid scripts. Shawn shares compelling stories of how diverse and unexpected guest choices have led to some of his most memorable episodes. Learn from industry leaders like Joe Rogan, and understand the importance of continuously evolving your podcast format to keep your audience hooked.Build a podcast community that reflects your unique personality and mission with actionable strategies from Shawn. From signature sign-offs to creating exclusive communities, we offer tips to forge strong connections with your audience. Elevate your guest network by learning effective techniques to attract high-profile guests, even if you’re not a household name yet. With practical networking examples and the power of forward-thinking, Shawn shows you how to embody your future success today. This episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and practical advice for anyone on their podcasting journey.

You can kind of tell when someone's having a conversation they're interested in and a conversation where they're just trying to reach a benchmark. Whenever you're passionate about something, you're going to naturally talk about it. And I think that's what we're doing here today. Let's go. Yeah, make it look, make it look, make it look easy. The Ryan Hanley Show shares the original ideas,

habits, and mindsets of world-class original thinkers you can use to produce extraordinary results in your life and business. This is The Way. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Today, we have an incredible conversation for you with Sean Anthony, the founder of PodProMax, a talent management company that helps place incredible individuals on podcasts like this show. So I actually work with them. Their talent managers are incredible. And some of the fantastic guests that we've had on the show recently are because of the relationship that I've developed with Sean and his team. And they continually deliver epic guests with incredible stories and tons of value to

deliver to you guys. Now, what we dive into in this episode is the podcast business. So not just how to create a podcast, all that you can find on YouTube. I'm talking about the business of podcasting. What does it look like? How do we grow? How do we monetize? Where do we find opportunities to expand our brand? How do we launch our own products? Sean is the man when it comes to the business of podcasting. Incredibly connected, dynamic. He's got his own podcast, which is wonderful and blasting up the charts. Frankly, we compete to a certain extent in the podcast industry. And I love that. And I love Sean's insight. I love his energy.

And if you are considering a podcast or have a podcast yourself, this is an episode you do not want to miss. This is your first time here. We'd love for you to subscribe, whether you're listening on Apple, Spotify, or wherever, or if you're watching on YouTube guys, if you have thoughts, feelings, comments, leave them either in the review section of wherever you're listening or go to YouTube and leave a comment or a question in the YouTube comments.

Whenever someone does that, I draw the guest back in and that guest, 99% of the time, will answer your questions directly. I appreciate the hell out of you for listening to this show. I know you have many options in where you spend your time and out of you for listening to this show. I know you have many options and where you spend your time. And I love that you choose to spend it with this podcast. Let's get on to Sean Anthony. Dude, I've been excited to chat with you for a while. I,

you know, having your name coming up the last couple of weeks, because you're the, you're the podcast guy, man. I mean, you're, you're the, you're the mean you're you're the you're the you're the podcast pro like you guys you know this game obviously i love it but it's your business so i'm i'm i'm always interested in this question when i talk to podcasters like this is a commitment it's it's a job whether it's a hobby or you're or not right like this is something you have to do you have to take it seriously what was it about podcasting in particular that just drew you in and caught your attention? Well, I think one, it just gave me a stage. If you're somebody right now that is struggling to get on a platform to be speaking in front of large audiences, you can plug up the microphone and be able to touch thousands and many different countries. And I think having that stage to either express something that you're passionate about or

either tell the world something you're good at is extremely important. I think that's what attracted me to podcasting. Are you a believer that everybody should have a podcast or do you have to have a different take? I believe everyone should not have a podcast. I believe, I believe though, I strongly believe though, everybody should be a guest on a podcast. What happens in life is that you're going to become really good at something. And when you become really good at something, you need to tell somebody about it and what better stage to be on than a podcast where there's an expert

asking you questions where you can show your expertise, but also stand out as an authority. One of the things that I've found, I completely agree with you. One of the things I've found is when I'm a guest on other podcasts, I say things in a different way than I say them when I'm the host. And I like that. Like I catch myself explaining, maybe telling a story differently or explaining a part of my belief or past or whatever in a different way. And I'm like, Ooh, sometimes like, Ooh, I like the way I just said that. Like, I have never said it that way before. Cause when you're in host mode, you know, I liked, I, I probably one of the, one of the piece of feedback that I get all the time, maybe more criticism, is that I talk too much. But I'm like this is a conversation. I want to be here with you and have this conversation. And it's funny how when someone is asking you questions, you will frame things differently than when you're the one asking – you're the one, the host that's normally asking the questions, you find that.

Absolutely. Your mind is trained a certain way where your mind is more relaxed to give your honest thoughts and opinions when you aren't thinking about what question could I ask them or how can I make it entertaining or how do I play off the answer they just gave. So you're actually, it's almost like basketball in a point where you're in a practice type environment and there's nobody guarding you when you are the guest. You're literally just taking shots. You're literally just getting into the right spot and learning where your hot spots are, your hot zones are. So I would 100% agree there is a complete difference when you're a guest versus when you're a host. But also, you got to prepare different, right? As a host of a show, you got to have an idea of, okay, who's this person in front of me? What have they accomplished? What have they may have never said on a podcast before that I can get out of them? Whereas when you're the guest,

you're just trying to, you trying to add value to someone's audience after you understand who their audience is. Dealing with as much guest talent and host talent as you have, what makes a great podcast? What are the core pieces of a podcast that people actually want to listen to and they come back to over and over again? I think they really want a host or a co-host or what have you, whoever's hosting that show, they want to feel like they're on the couch with them. They want to feel like they're in the room with them. They want to feel like there's relevance, there's relatability. They want to feel as if this is a conversation that I'm just fortunate enough to be in a room with. And I think a lot of the good podcasts are doing that in a strategic ways. You notice a lot of shows now, they aren't even doing any intros.

They're going right into it because that attention span has changed so much. Our mind is being trained to, you know, looking at 10 second, 15 second YouTube shorts or Instagram reels. Right. So I would definitely a hundred percent say that. You know, I think that when we create content, we forget that we're not just competing against the other people in our genre or even the medium, right? Like when you create a podcast, this is one of the things that opened my eyes up to what you just said. I was talking to a guest and we were just middle of the conversation and kind of talking about content creation in general. And he said, you know, we have to remember that we're also competing against Netflix.

We're competing against their kids. We're competing against their job. We're competing against their spouse or partner. We're competing, you know, we are, they're deciding this individual is deciding to spend X amount of time with you versus everything else in their life. And why should they do that? And I think too often the podcasts that start and then fizzle out often the hook is they, they aren't, they aren't considering what's in it for me from the audience's perspective. Like what is in it for that audience member?

Why should they listen to you versus Joe Rogan or Mel Robbins or one of these other podcasts? Or a YouTube show or just scroll through TikTok for an hour, right? Like that is such a core piece of this puzzle and it's so often skipped. A hundred percent. I think, think you know a podcast has changed you know when i started podcasting in 2018 videocast wasn't even a real big thing i remember when i interviewed ryan sirhan episode seven which changed the trajectory of our entire show which

allowed us to go after the big names like ed Milad and many more. I remember when we did that podcast, he even asked me, hey, do you want to come to New York? Or hey, you know, is this video? Is this over the phone? It was just so foreign. And what I'm trying to get the audience right now to understand is podcasting has changed. And you do have to do what Ryan's talking about. Figure out what is going to be the creativity. What are

you going to do differently? And what I found out what works really, really successful is when the host is so curious. They're just so curious. They're almost asking selfish questions. And the selfish questions is what is really resonating with a lot of people listening to their show. They are the host. And so they want to know because they're not sitting down with Sean Anthony. They're not sitting down with some of the amazing people you've sat down with. So they want you to be a sponge and extract that from them. And I found that those are the podcasts that regardless of the big names, what really matters is how good of a conversation is happening. And I think that's the key. Yeah. You know, you it's, I find a disconnect with a

host when the guests will say something and then you'll have in your head, you'll start projecting out the next question that you want to hear from that person. And the guests will like take you in a different direction. You're like, wait a minute, that conversation wasn't finished yet. Like there's like two or three more questions you could ask there. Right. And, and I think to your point, um, you know, and one of the things that I hope in, you know, people get out of this show is that I don't prepare questions for the show, right? I have a direction. I understand who the person is. I have a feel for where I would like to take them, but I'm always the most interested in like, what's interesting on your brain today. And like, I didn't actually, this is the first time in

probably months. I didn't, I didn't ask you this question. Cause we were talking about a whole bunch of other stuff before we went live. But, um, I normally ask the guest, like, did all my research. I know who you are. I'm excited. But like, what's hot on your brain right now? Like, what's got you tuned up today? Not like in general, but like this moment. Did you just read an article? Like, what's got you tuned up?

And dude, the stuff that sometimes comes out is like completely off base. And I think while maybe someone will come to the show for a certain reason, they wanna hear what that person has to say about the topic that they're most known for. And I always wanna get to that stuff. I feel like there's always these little pockets of interest that people have.

And if we can pull that out, that makes your show unique because now you got them to say something or talk about something that normally they don't. And that's a differentiator. And it only comes from the word that you said, curiosity. So I guess my question to you is if there are, if there, and I'm sure, and I know there are podcast hosts listening to this show, how do they cultivate that curiosity? How do they make sure they bake that curiosity into their show? If maybe they feel like they're not doing it enough right now?

Well, they have to make sure that they're talking to people they actually want to talk to. And they're not just talking to people that kind of meet a metric or a quota. You know, you can kind of tell when someone's having a conversation they're interested in and a conversation where they're just trying to reach a benchmark. They're just trying to have another guest. And I always tell people before you just have another guest, find out what topics that your audience really has. Are you tired of endless follow-ups and missed opportunities in your sales process? Chasing leads is a losing game.

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to kind of mix it up a little bit do a little bit of solo podcast give them the strategy to whatever they're asking about do a little bit more deep dive on a very popular episode that worked in the past and now your thoughts are six months later right maybe the world has changed you know i do like that question that you had about you know what's exciting you right now like what's really really like, like getting you right now. And I just thought about, as you were saying, literally, um, about an hour ago, you know, I just received a text message from one of my good friends, uh, who's really big in the social media space, asking me to go to the white house to talk about branding and social media and growth. And, you know, so that's really exciting.

And in the talent management space, we brought on a new talent, a back fuel podcast. They're absolutely crushing it with interviews with Joe Bud and, and so many more people. So that's really exciting to me. So I think, you know, whenever you're passionate about something, you're going to naturally talk about it. And I think that's what we're doing here today. Yeah, I completely agree. I think I agree with the going off of your normal script too. And what I mean by that is like this show is mostly business, entrepreneurship, personal development, that kind of stuff. Like

if you're, if you're energized and trying to get better at something and you can deliver, you know, deliver some insights that I'm interested in talking to you, but I have, um, we were talking a little bit about it before and, uh, and, and so, uh, guys, you may not know this cause I just haven't said it yet, but Sean owns a pod pro max, which in part, one of the many things you do is, do is talent pitches to podcast hosts like myself. And one of your people reached out to me probably three or four months ago and had a guest. And the guest was awesome, dialed in, loved it. I get so many pitches, a dozen pitches a day.

And that is not a joke. I get a dozen pitches a day at a minimum for people to come on the show. And most of them are complete garbage. And when I saw what you guys delivered, and I'm not just stroking your ego because you're here, it's true. pitches a day at a minimum for people to come on the show. And most of them are complete garbage. And when I saw what you guys delivered, and I'm not just stroking your ego because you're here, it's true, like completely the right way to do it. Awesome guest. Okay. So I start to get dialed in to them. And now when they pitch me, I kind of know your people know what I'm all about. You send me great people. And I almost, I do a tiny bit of research in the person just to make sure, you know, whatever. But for the most part, I basically just say yes, because it's a good fit. I have another, there's a couple companies that have kind of fallen into

that vein. And one of the guys pitched me a jazz musician. And I was like, you know what? This dude seems like a cool dude. I've never interviewed a jazz musician before like this could be a cool vein and dude it ended up being this incredible his name's jesse thompson jt jazz he's out of uh dayton ohio or now he lives in columbus but he's out of dayton ohio awesome dude and like uh that episode uh will have come out when this one does so you can go back and listen if you didn't but like it was really fun to kind of go off of the normal vein and it was a test as a host for me to try to deliver to my audience what I know they're looking for while still working through this topic that feels a little off of center and I was just like it was a really cool experience. And I just I think this is we can't say stay so templated like like the John Lee Dumas who major props to him for all the success he's had. But like that templated show style that he kind of pioneered maybe five, six, seven years ago. I think it's great, but at the same time, to me, it starts to feel it's too, it ends up being too

templated because you just start hearing the same answers to the same questions over and over. Cause there's only so many different answers you can give. And, um, it comes back to this idea of curiosity. Like you can learn from anybody if you open your mind up and you just listen to them right i mean that 100 i also believe ryan i think you know there's this thing and i learned this from a good friend of mine his name's andrew negan and he's created some amazing things and one of the things he said to me is that in four years you start to feel something different a shift a change and i really started to think about it right think about how about how school and education is. When you think about, you know, freshman year to sophomore year, you think about sophomore year to junior, junior to senior, and the same thing happening, you know, even in college, there's really a four year span

of really going crazy, doing something a certain way before you need to switch it up completely. And I think about some of those names you mentioned and their shows and their styles, what worked in not necessarily is going to work again now. And you notice this when you look at even just the smallest things, which are big deals in the spaces that we play in, like podcast charts. A lot of the shows that, you know, that were on the top of the charts three years ago are not even cracking the top 100 or even on the charts at all anymore because everybody is evolving. You have to do something different. You have to look at, OK, how do we get people really excited again? And I think that's what something a lot of podcasters should pay attention to. Yeah. I mean, Joe Roggan's a great example i mean

this is the biggest one of the biggest podcasts in the world the dude adds in he's always done his comedian shows right then he starts bringing in scientists and all these all these people like graham hancock who you know i i love that part of it you know neurophysicists and astrophysicists, all this crazy stuff. Then he starts the MMA show. Then he's got the parks, parks show, you know, and again, these are like shows inside the show where I skip over the one about the parks. I think it's cool. I think it's great. It's just not something that I want to spend my time on, but then I'll come back for, you know, a scientist or I do, I do like the MMA shows once in a while whatever and to me it's like that constant evolution and curiosity you know and I love this is going to be probably the

word of the podcast but like that is the key to this game and I think it's the key to all creation right is is this curiosity so you have your own podcast uh school's over now. What, what was the cure? What was the curiosity that, that to start that show? Like why that topic? Why that name? Like what was on your brain that you were like, you know what, this is going to be my thing. This is what I'm going to go with. Yeah, man. You know, for me, you know, I was somebody who had went to an HBCU prior to that. I was really big at nightlife and parties. My very first party, I was 14 years old, was a high school graduation party. I convinced 18-year-olds to party with a 14-year-old, and I made over $6,000. And so I went off to college. I graduated from Winston-Salem

State University, became a big nightlife party promoter, took those marketing skills and transferred it to corporate, start brand managing companies like Macy's. My last brand manager job was actually Target. And while doing this, you know, I stumbled across podcasting as of being promoted six times in four years. And I'm listening to all these guys, Ed Malep, Chris Drama, a path, Evan Carmichael, all these guys who have been on my show. And I saw something and I really quickly that they didn't sound like me. They didn't quite look like me. And then I also paid attention to what all of these corporate people who constantly kept promoting me, what they were saying about me,

you know, the way that I spoke, how did I talk and how did I saw everyone listen to certain things I would say. And I started to feel guilty in the fact that I was succeeding even after college in this corporate space and none of my friends were. And I said, what's the question everybody's asking? And that was school's over. Now what? Like, what do I do? And I took all of the amazing knowledge from other people and highlighted that. And I made that into the show in June, 2018 and everything changed because so many of these big names whether it was Mikey Taylor, Matthew Knowles who's also a client of ours whoever it was they could relate to the topic and I think a lot of podcast hosts right now

are creating shows or they're doing certain things and the main thing to have to think about if their show isn't a show that's charting or doing anything like that is how when someone hears the title of my show how can they personally see themselves in it when they want to be a part of it and that's that's what really happened yeah i love that i mean because you know when i when i saw the name of your show i was like you completely know what the person's going to talk about, right? You're going to, you like, it draws you in. You're like, shit. Like, I didn't know anything when I graduated from school. Like, I wonder what, wonder what this person's got to talk about. I wonder what they're going to drop because it, it is, it frames it in a way that you immediately know what you're going to get in terms of the high level. And then it

draws the interest in to say, okay, so what specifically are that? What, what advice are they going to give? Like you, you, you can't help, especially with the, I mean, I love that you have a question mark in the name of your show. Like it, it immediately draws you in with that kind of like FOMO of what if they give me the secret, you know, what if the secret that I'm looking for is, is contained in this, you know, this episode? And that's exactly what you're trying to do. So when a podcast host or really any creator is starting to think about these types of things, is there like an exercise or a mindset or a framework that you recommend that can just help them start to wrap their brain around exactly how you've been successful and other shows have been? Yeah, I think, you know, when you start

a podcast, I always tell people the main thing you want to think about outside of the name of the show is how do you launch the show? And so many people drop just one episode. I think that's a complete fail. I think what you have to do, you think about all the things we really like, like whether, you know, it's a show on Netflix or like one of my favorite shows on Netflix that is a phenomenon that's no longer showing anymore is Ozark, right? When I started watching Ozark, I didn't want to just watch one episode. I wanted to keep going like a series. And so when you launch a new podcast, you want to launch it with at least three episodes. The first episode should be, who are you? Like people want to know exactly who are you? How did you get to where you are today? And to even wanted to cut on a microphone and to be speaking to us. The second

episode is what should people expect? So think about, okay, this is going to be an interview style podcast where, you know, I'm going to sit down with some of the best, or perhaps it might be a show where you're doing a mix of both. You're giving strategy, you're giving tips. And then in the third episode, you just got to start delivering it. So whatever you promised them on episode two, which shouldn't be that long, whether you promised them an interview or whether you promised them tips, this is the episode to start giving that. And I think if you launch it with three episodes, you now have a format where you can then at some point as well in the what to expect episode, tell your audience the day the

show will constantly release every single month so that they are aware of it. And now you're starting to create an audience that started to cultivate your content, get a feel for who you are and now ready to go on this journey with you. I think that's really, really important. You know, you hear all the time intention spans have gone down. You know, I had someone tell me that wasn't like a listener feedback. It was just a friend was like, you know, do you think your show would do better if they were shorter? Right. do you think your show would do better if they were shorter right like you do 45 to hour-long interviews and i was like i completely and utterly disagree with the attention span thing

i don't think that our attention spans have dropped i think that our we're way more discerning as consumers of content right i think the difference is you just have to be better. Like, you know, the back and back when, you know, so a lot of people don't know this, who listened to the show today. But I actually my first podcast that I created was in 2011. I created a podcast called content warfare. It was all about marketing strategy, content creation, I was interviewing some of the biggest and best names in all of marketing. I was at social media marketing world. This is again, more than a decade ago. And, uh, and I was in all of Apple. I have a screenshot and all of Apple podcasts. I was ranked number 11 doing 47,000. And now think about this back, back then this is now, this is like 2013, 2014. I'd been doing the show for a few years.

47,000 downloads a month was number 11 in all of Apple podcasts. So just think about how far we've come as an industry, how far podcasting has come as a platform, right? And I have a screenshot of Ed Milet was number nine, and Gary Vaynerchuk was number 13, there's there's content warfare right in the middle uh unfortunately for reasons that seem silly now I ended I stopped doing that show I just didn't know podcasting was going to be this big I mean back then people still thought podcasting was stupid you know today today you know podcasting is just blown up and and it's so incredibly important and my my point in sharing that story is that, um, there's no right. What I've realized over my career. And I had actually in, uh, another industry focused pockets in between there is that there's no right or wrong way to do this. So my question for you is we have these best practices that are kind of some of the foundational

piece of things we have to do. How do you recommend to people that they then start to make that podcast their own, right? Because if you're just trying to duplicate or imitate someone else's style, that might be a good way to get off the ground. But if you really want to get traction and become something that's sustainable, you have to kind of make it your own. What are your recommendations for how do you think about how do you make your podcast your own? Yeah, I love this question. I think you have to start inserting things that show your personality or reaffirms whatever the mission statement is for the show. I think a lot of podcasts, one of the biggest hacks I've paid attention to, even when the very beginning of the podcast is that you can have so many interviews. And there's times where the person you're interviewing,

they might go on a tangent that has nothing to do with what you originally started talking about. They might start talking about their dog. They might start talking about a doctor's visit. And so as a podcast host, it's important to kind of redirect that energy and let your audience know, almost like a bring it home type of thing. So try to insert your personality.

Try to insert certain sayings where if a person was to go anywhere else, they know that catchphrase is you. One of the things that I did, didn't even realize I was doing it on the very first episode. And we continue to do it even now, 300 plus episodes is that whenever I'm interviewing anybody, the way you know the interview is about to end is that we added a question to the very end of the podcast that brought all the energy back together so the show's called school's over now what but the very last question we asked anyone who's ever been on that platform where they walked across the stage or don't even have a degree at all if you're asking yourself the question of the

show school's over now what what advice would would ryan give or what advice would whoever that person may be give and that ties the show back in but then there's also a way that we sign out on the show and one of the ways that we sign out on the show is we always say for those who have been listening always remember dream it believe it go out and get it and then what happened with dream it believe it go out and get it it became a catchphrase it became merchandise it became t-shirts you know and i think that's how you start inserting things that are naturally naturally you you know and i think that's how you really stand out you know it's i i love that you know and actually uh our mutual friend uh

mick hunt he's always giving me crap because i have neither one of those things he's like bro he's like you he's like when we're on the you say this, you say the same freaking catchphrases over and over, you know, whatever. He's always giving me shit. He's like, and then on your show, he's like, you never say that shit. He's like, what do you, he's like, you need to bring that to the show. And it's funny. I get so involved in the conversation and what the person is saying that. And again, this is why I'm a shitty podcast host but like i i like forget you know i get to the end and i'm like i'm so engaged in what the person is saying and where we're going and and uh trying to just find little pieces and little nuggets and draw them out that like i get to

the end of the show and i'm just like this has been awesome you know tell us where to go you know and then i'll get a text from mick he's like, you, you did it again. He's like, you didn't sign off the show. It's like, you know, and I think I, you know, I think, um, I think you're completely right. I mean, that structural stuff is what builds, um, connection to the brand. What are some other things? Cause I, I completely agree a sign off question or a closing question that kind of brings some consistency and conclusion to the show, kind of a landing of sorts and a sign-off. I completely agree with those things. What are some other things that people can go behind the scenes with. And then if you really want to go crazy, you can start creating certain events for this inclusive community that you're building.

Right. So let's say, you know, you're listening to this show. And what's a word that you like ryan that you're really passionate about so we talk about um uh defy ordinary a lot defy ordinary like do not be you know whatever that means to you you cannot you cannot be mediocre you cannot fit into the crowd you gotta defy ordinary so so you can have a conference called define Ordinary. And every time you're talking on this podcast, every time that you are having any guests, anybody solo episode, you can create your own 15 second, 20 second commercial in between, you know, podcasting and say, hey, look, we're going to have the first ever Define Ordinary conference happening here and blah, blah, blah. You know, you can get your audience excited. You know what? I want to give away the first hundred tickets. If this is something that you want to be a part of, you know, and you give them an email or, you know, you have maybe a social media post

that you're doing and they have one word comment and the one word is defined, right? And then, or unordinary or whatever it may be, make it simple. You start to create this community that now you can do these focus-based events for. And I think that can be exciting as well. And then now you have these raving fans who almost become like gladiators for you everywhere you go. Yeah. I mean, you think about it. Just think about the podcast that you've mentioned and that I've mentioned already on this show, right? Like we obviously listen to them, we respect them and here we are promoting them on a podcast, you know,

and you think about it, like, that's what you want. Like you want people who are out there, whether it's in their own content or when they're just bumping into a friend or playing golf or at an event or whatever going, Hey man, you listened to that last episode of so-and-so show, man, that really hit me hard or whatever. And that, that part of it is definitely something that I think I have not done enough with this community, which guys, I apologize. And there are things coming, so don't worry. But, um, you know, I've always been so focused and some of this is just me as a creator. I just love the frigging conversations, man. Like I love – to me, it's about the conversations, and I definitely am a little lax on the brand-building, community-building piece, which is something that I need to take a slightly different tack since we're tactical here because you've talked about – you've mentioned some incredible names, incredibly deep thinkers, original thinkers that have been on your show and that you're connected with. For that person who's sitting out there going, okay, I get it.

I understand what you guys are talking about. I feel good. I got some notes here that I've taken on how to make my show better. But I'd really love to get this A-list guest that's in my industry or whatever, right? If you're not a big name yet, right? Like you're not charting yet where you can say, hey, I'm Apple top 20 in this or whatever, you know, what's a method in a respectful way? Because I've seen this done and have it done to me in ways that I feel icky about. How what is a good way, respectful way to reach out to somebody and ask for their time to come on your show? Yeah, I think people are just networking wrong. And sometimes you have to network up or network around and then make the ask. So for example, let's, let's just call it what it is. And my last, a huge podcast

name is a huge person in any space. Uh, when you think about speaking motivation, any of those things, you know, when I got towards having that interview and doing it in Laguna beach at his home, by the time I sat on that couch, I had already interviewed 12 of his friends that were on his show. So the familiarity of, okay, he's a trusted source. This is a trusted ask is so high, right? When you've already interviewed the Jasmine stars, the Amy Porterfields, the Gerard Adams, it's almost a no brainer. And I think people need to start in their pitch, make that part of their pitch. Like we've interviewed names, names that they're familiar with. If they don't have a podcast and

you want them on your show, maybe it might be names they're familiar with that they're following. So they might be following, you know, a very small amount of people. Typically, you know, people with a huge following are following very small handful amount of people. And some of those handful amount of people might be the person you need to speak with first before you make this gigantic ask. And one of the special ways to do this with athletes is instead of going for the athlete, go for the coach, go for the trainer, go for somebody that they're familiar with that you can now utilize this because they're going to ask that person, you know, how was it like talking to them? And we all want to be in rooms our friends are in. And I think that's the key. Yeah, I will say that I had I had an athlete come on and a football player.

He had retired and had become an entrepreneur. And I was really interested in that journey and that transition. And it was a great conversation. And afterwards he said to me, he goes, you know, man, I kinda, I kinda took a flyer on you because so, so how I got to this guy was his dad actually for fun drives Uber. So I was doing a keynote and I show up in Dallas, Texas to do this keynote. And I jump in the car and I'm chatting with the Uber driver because I'm just talking to a person and he tells me who his kid is. And I was like, I like hesitated for a sec because I was like, well, I don't mean I mean no disrespect in this question, but why are you driving? He goes, I do it for fun. He goes, I like talking to people.

So I because I don't do it all the time, once or twice a week, he goes, but it gives me a chance to talk to people. Most of them are coming in from the airport and they got interesting stories, whatever. And I was like, that's kind of cool. And then I said, Hey, I have a podcast. Do you think your son would be interesting coming on? I'd love his story. Cause he's telling me all about this business he's creating and stuff and whatever. So that's how I get to the guy. So then, you know, he comes on the show and he's like, and here's the point of my story. He goes, he gets to the end and we do, and it was a great conversation. And he goes, you know, man, I took a flyer on this. He goes, I've done this a couple of times where like, I didn't know the show. And he's like, oh my God, he's like within five

minutes, I'm like regretting the decision. And that's, that's what they're thinking, right? I guess to your point, what these people are thinking is my time is valuable. I'm willing to give it to you if you're going to make it worthwhile. But you need to prove to me for me to give you my time that it's going to be worthwhile. So again, it's like that what's in it for me kind of thing. I think letting them know – another one that I will sometimes do when I'm making kind of a bigger ask is letting them know, hey, I'm going to give you all the footage. When it comes in, it will all be yours. You'll have full rights to it, so you can chop it up.

Your social media team can use it. You give them like start – figure out what the objections are and then just start crossing them off for them in your initial ask so that, hey, there's other people. Here's two episodes that I think if you just take a quick look at, we'll give you a feel for the show. Here's all the assets you get, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they start to go, okay, you know, this person's going to respect my time because that's the worst thing for them is they get in and five minutes in, they're regretting every second of it.

Oh, man, it's so relatable because we both probably have felt that, you know. And at that point, when you reach the levels and heights like that, it can almost feel like a discovery call when you're with them. It's so important to really, really make sure that you make it worth their while, whether you're entertaining it, whether you're giving them the interview they really, really wanted to always have, but no one's ever given them the opportunity to do that. And I think when you provide those type of environments, they'll come back.

Yeah. And they'll refer you people. That's, that's when you know, I think when you've done a good job, when a guest goes, you finish, you finish a conversation, you, you, you turn the mics off or the recording off and you and the guests like, you know, I got a buddy, you know, he'd love this. This is great. And then, you know, you know, you get that little bit of pride feeling of like, oh, I did a good job here. This has been fun. So I want to ask you just a couple of questions about what you do at Pod Pro Max is specifically around the idea of doing podcast tours because I have I in a different life uh I did one for a different business it had nothing to do with what I'm doing now um and I I didn't love the way they did it um so but so, but I think this, something like a podcast tour, especially when

maybe you're in launch mode or you're trying to push a program or you just are looking to, to take your brand to the next level is it, there are not enough people tapping into this as a resource for them. So talk to me a little bit about what a podcast tour is, the value someone can get, and ultimately how do, if they, if they were to come to Pop Pro Max and say, guys, I got this thing. I want it to be successful. I'd love for you to do a tour with you. How do they make that the most successful for them? Well, I love this thing because Pop Pro Max tours and just podcast is where we take a talent. We understand more about them probably than anyone else. So one of the things that we talked about already that I think we both understand

is the power of the right pitch and how quickly we understand how a terrible pitch is. So with Pod Pro Max, we take on a talent, we give them an intake form, we understand exactly what your business is, we understand exactly what type of shows you like, what shows you wish you were on. And we take that and we create some of these powerful pitches. And I remember the very first podcast tour we did, shout out to Arlen Hamilton. So Arlen Hamilton is a huge VC. She's been seen on everything you can imagine. And she had a conference, and her conference, Your First Million Live, where she had Gary Vee, Rich Paul. And what's so important for anyone that's thinking about a podcast tour, if you ever are thinking

about promoting something, whether it's a conference, whether it's a book, whether it's your own podcast, this is the perfect thing for you to do. And when you're with the right company that understands you, understands what your viewpoints are and have credibility in this space. I think it's so important. When I found out, you know, we've launched Popper Max now it's over a year old. But what I found out with this is that the founder story, Ryan, is so key. A lot of people are out here operating businesses that they've never really been in. They're operating businesses that they never even achieved the success. And you're talking to someone who spent years in podcasting, who turned podcasting into a six-figure side hustle by the second year of podcasting when I was only podcasting one day a week. That means

that one day a week, I would do the interviews. I would do the edits. I would get some of these amazing guests. All this happened only off one day of effort. So this is years of understanding, you know, the space, years of collecting relationships, identifying talent like yourself and saying, hey, look, this is awesome person that you don't know about that you should learn about. And I think also what's important to pay attention to in the founder story, what was the eye opener for me when I knew I had to go all in on entrepreneurship is I had a job review. And I remember like it was yesterday, he set me down. Job reviews are the key to understanding what you're really good at without even trying. And what's so crazy about it is that

your boss, whoever is your supervisor, they're getting paid to tell you. And so he told me, listen, Sean, the way you connect and collaborate with others, I've never seen anything like it. And I got to exceed expectations. So that fueled me to start reaching out to more people, collaborating with more people. And it's just became a superpower. And I understand exactly where someone is at. And my team understands exactly who is out there that needs to work with them and that they feel good because just because it's a podcast tour, we don't want just the host. We don't want just the client feeling well. We want the host feeling well because they're now a partner of ours and we're

also satisfying a need for them because it's hard to find the right guests that will share your content, that'll be just as excited, who will understand, okay, this person across from me has already been vetted. Like I've already been vetted. And I think that's how you have success because I see so many companies doing it wrong. And it all comes back to founder story, who's on their team, and then what's the credibility of where the source is coming from. And I'm excited about that because the podcast tours, you know, we do this with people who are entrepreneurs.

We do this with people who are in a television space. One of our talents is the Polites. They're on a show called 50-50 Flip in real estate. You can watch it right now on Hulu. You can watch it right now on A&E. They're signed for four seasons, but they're in their second season now. But that all happened because of podcasting. Podcasting only expands the vertical arm of media. And if you want to do it correctly, I truly honestly believe that podcasting tours are the future because

everyone can't sit down like you and understand what it takes to be at the top of the charts in a business category. They might not have the grit. They might not have the hunger, but they got a story. And a platform that is connected with them could be light years and speeding them ahead of everyone that they've been watching from the sidelines. finger and slide back about three minutes and listen to what Sean said again, because I think that this is the untapped resource for establishing your authority in whatever you're trying to do. And even if you're a local business, right, there are podcasts in your area, your local news network, you're, you know, there's going to be someone who's talking about culture. There's the sports guy who on one of the stations probably has his own podcast or her own podcast. And it doesn't have to be, well, you know, I own three,

you know, three franchise locations and I really want people to understand what I'm doing and, you know, whatever. Yeah, that's great. You can do a podcast tour that's regional. You can do a podcast tour that's specific to a niche. Like it doesn't just have to be these big, huge shows that maybe not everyone is your, is your niche. It's about exactly what Sean said. And I'll tell you guys, and again, not paid to say this. I just appreciate these guys as someone who gets pitches from them. Um, there is a right and wrong way to do this. And if you are working with a company that is not pitching you to the right shows, it will not work out for you. That host will show up and they'll try their best, but there will be an obvious disconnect between the host and what you're trying to get across.

And when it works well, it's magic. Like we said at the very beginning, you say things that you wouldn't normally say. You explain things at a deeper level. There's this connection and energy and you need the right people. And if you try to do this on your own, you can, you can. But it is an enormous amount of work. You will miss a lot of shows that,

you know, when I get pitched directly, I scrutinize people a lot because I get pitched from people who want to tell me I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this. And I've made this mistake where they get on and then they're none of those things or they're giving you, you know, I mean, I'm sure that you have experienced this or at least been around it where like you ask somebody a question and like you're expecting like a two three minute answer and you get like a sentence and you're like oh my god this person doesn't actually know what they're talking about like we're in trouble how the hell do i make 30

minutes work it's like pulling teeth man you know um you know there's what i also learned too just from the talent management aspect and managing talent and brand negotiations and deal making is that the hardest thing to ever do is represent yourself. You know, there's people who have actually made their entire company on teaching you how to pitch yourself or teaching you how to make some noise by yourself. And the real high-level credibility, wherever you're trying to go, to your point, you said it in a very smooth way, they don't respect that. What they want is they want to see a talent actually being represented and someone speaking on their behalf so that it's a pleasant surprise and they're already hit with so much credibility. It's a no brainer. You know, I think a lot of people are, I think that old model of, let me teach you how to go do this yourself.

You know, I kind of, I kind of think about this, some of the worst consultants. And I think about it, some of the worst consultants, you want to know why they're really a consultant, Ryan? Because they don't want to do the work. They don't want to do the work. They wanted't want to do the work. If they wanted to do the work, they would do the work. They would have the team. They themselves don't want to do the work. So they want to just tell you what you should do when in reality, when you are being represented, it is a completely different response to that. Yeah. And as much as people may not want, some people may not like this idea, but in, in this game, authority matters and it's the perception of your authority. And when now, again, you know, somebody, you meet them at a conference, they text you, Hey bro, I'd love to come on the show and talk about whatever that's different,

right? You know, the person it's different. I'm not talking about that but like when you're trying to say get on a show like you know a high power show who's who's charting and you reach out directly cold what I feel is if this person was really doing all the things that they're going to tell me that they do in their business, they would not be reaching out cold. They would have somebody doing this for them because what that shows me is they're not prioritizing their time. Cold outreach to hosts tells me that entrepreneur, that person, their time should be better spent than doing that. There should be someone else researching shows, putting together emails, putting together pitches, sending them out.

So now I immediately, like their authority in my mind comes down a little bit because I'm like, if they were really doing all the things they're saying they're doing, they wouldn't have time to pitch me to be on my show. They would have their person or a team or someone like Pop Pro Max reaching out. And, you know, that might not feel good to you guys, some of you guys. I mean some of you guys don't really understand it. But like that is absolutely the truth. So Sean, dude, I adore what you're doing.

I love your philosophy, your networking, your approach to podcasting is phenomenal. The question that I do ask when I ask it and now that you put this on me i have to ask it to you is you are an extraordinary human how do you defy ordinary i define i defy ordinary by i think about every room that i'm walking in and every conversation that i'm having regardless of where I physically stand, I'm operating as my future self. And I think the more I do that, so whether it's speaking on stages, whether it is, you know, talking to anybody, you know, like right now on this podcast,

you know, I'm talking to you as the Sean Anthony who's already achieved CAA type level because that's where I'm headed and I think if you're listening to this right now you have to start today operating as if you are already who you are supposed to be and I think that's the key I fucking love it dude such a pleasure appreciate you can't wait to work with you more in the future brother be good likewise bro Appreciate you. Can't wait to work with you more in the future, brother. Be good. Likewise, bro. Let's go. Yeah, make it look, make it look, make it look easy.

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