The Ryan Hanley Show - RHS 005 - The Origin of a Fitness Entrepreneur with Matt Phelps

Episode Date: September 21, 2019

Became a Master of the Close: https://masteroftheclose.comMatt Phelps, founder and president of Metabolic shares his entrepreneurial origin story into the fitness industry. Learn more about Metabolic: https://trainmetabolic.com/ Get more of Ryan Hanley Show: https://ryanhanley.com/Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the fifth and final episode of Launch Week. Today's guest is Matt Phelps, the founder of Metabolic, the company of which I am the CEO. He is my partner in growing and spreading Metabolic across the country. And I wanted you to spend some time to get to know Matt because Metabolic is an enormous part of my life. And not every episode of this show has to do specifically with Metabolic, but everything we talk about is intrinsic in what Metabolic is and how he and I run this company together. And I wanted you to listen to our conversation, not just about where he came from and the amazing entrepreneurial story that he has, but ultimately how two people

from very different places with different styles can come together and grow a company as partners. I hope you enjoy it. Let's get to the episode. All right, dude. So welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks. It's weird to sit on this side of the chair, but I'm excited and honored to be a part of your first week of the Ryan Hamer Show. Yeah, it's good to be back on the air. This is technically my third podcast that I've had. But I got to say, I think for this particular iteration of podcasting, I'm incredibly excited because I really want to dive into business stories at a richer level than just like marketing.

I want to really get into, and in particular, this is what I'm most interested in speaking with you today about, is like, obviously today, founder, president, chairman of the board, head of corporate location, develop, whatever we want to call you in Metabolic today, you wear many, many hats. I want to talk more about your your genesis of of getting into Phelps gym, that iteration, and talk about that process and even go back into some of the early days of when you just started to get involved in fitness because I really what I'm super interested in and what I find so intriguing about your story is the origin of your becoming an entrepreneur and all the iterations that it took to get to where we are today. So maybe take us back a little bit into kind of what got you started in fitness to begin with and some of those early positions that you

held in the fitness industry? Yeah. So I think taking it way, way back, I think I've always had entrepreneurial tendencies. I remember as a kid, I must've been eight or nine years old and my mom bought me this book and I still remember the book. I don't know what it was called, but it had like, it was basically teaching little kids how to make money, lemonade stands, mowing lawns, stuff like that. Shoveling driveways. I feel like no kids do that anymore, but that going up in the eighties, that was a real mean means of income. And so I always had baseball cards were a huge part of my upbringing. I actually think baseball cards might've spurred all of this, but I had, I always liked to make money. I don't, and it's kind of funny because I think the feeling I get

from that, it feels like I'm winning a game. I don't necessarily love like spending money. I'm not a super materialistic guy. Everyone who knows me knows I really hate traveling. So I don't do a ton of traveling, but I've always had those kind of entrepreneurial tendencies, which would serve me well later in life, years down the road. But I've always liked working out my story in fitness. I in first grade, I was placed in a special gym class because I couldn't do chin ups or push ups to a certain level, I guess. And I remember I was so I was smart. So I knew what they were doing. I was so embarrassed. They pulled me out of class and I had to leave the class with the regular kids to go to the special gym class. And I wasn't dumb. I knew what it was for. And I was so humiliated

that I went home and even at that age, I was doing pushups. I was running laps around my block and I vowed to myself I would never go back to that class which I didn't and um I think from then on it just kind of enlightened me that that there's this thing we can do where we can work on our bodies and get stronger and more athletic and in more condition so I started I started at a very young age you know even when you're in fifth sixth grade you're doing the mile run taking the the presidential fitness exam do they still do that? I don't even know. But you know what the blue patch is, I'm sure. Yes. Yes. And the blue patch. And, you know, I was always a red patch guy, but I wanted the blue patch so bad. But no, so it just started then. And in college, I really got into lifting weights. And, you know,

like so many other people, when I graduated college, I was an English major, I could write very well, didn't know what I wanted to do. And, you know, one thing led to another. And I went to grad school and got my master's degree in exercise science. And kind of that began the genesis of my career in fitness where I really started working with mostly athletes because I thought I was going to be an NFL strength and conditioning coach. And it kind of led me down the path of working with the general population. Is that every like when you're getting your master's degree and in exercise science, like is is the is that like the pinnacle like NFL strength and conditioning coach? Like is that or some sort of professional athletic? Is that, you know, was that where everyone kind of shoots for at the beginning? Yeah, well, so the program I was in, I should say, uh, I was in the applied

exercise science program at Springfield college in, in Springfield college is like the Wharton school of business for strength coaches. Like if you look at NFL rosters and NBA strength and every other pro sport, I bet you like a third of them have degrees from Springfield. It's a very well-respected place to receive your education in that line of work. So that is a very in-the-trenches type of experience. And so everyone in my program was there to be a strength coach. And it's funny, as I think about it now, like the Colorado football, the Colorado Buffalo, the Colorado football strength coach was in my program I don't know if he still does it this guy he might have been the

Cubs strength and conditioning coach he was in my program there's just a bunch of other people out there who are pretty big names in the fitness industry today so that was the intention but for other people out there with an exercise science degree I mean you can work in the labs you can do research you can

teach you can do a lot of different things with it. But I always knew I wanted to apply it in that setting. I actually didn't end up getting my degree from Springfield because I was a I got a job offer to be a collegiate strength coach before I graduated. So I ended up getting my degree online from a place I've never been to the California University of Pennsylvania, which I guess is near Pittsburgh. I've never been there, but yeah, so an interesting route to get my master's degree, but I got it nonetheless. Yeah. What school did you get the, did you get the job at? My alma mater, Siena College. Nice. The basketball coach at the time was this guy, Rob Lanier. I had volunteered with them the year before. He really liked me. I must've made a good impression on him

and he lobbied hard that I get the position. I was a certified strength and conditioning coach for the NSCA. Just didn't have my master's at that time, but I was in the program was so ecstatic that I was offered that position to be the strength coach at Siena at the age of 23. That I remember the AD gave me a salary and he told me my salary was going to be $23,000. And he could have literally said $14,000 and I would have been just as excited. I was so pumped to take that job and to do what I loved and, you know, and to take that on at that time. I just I'll never forget that feeling when he called me and offered me the job. And, you know, that's how I knew that I was doing what I was meant to do. Was was that a so it wasn't a tough decision. I think a lot of people who would be in a program like that, even though they're maybe, I guess, the job of a lifetime or exactly what you want to do that job is offered,

you are giving up on, to a certain extent, the opportunity to finish your degree. And there's a stigma that comes with that. Did any of that play into your mind? Or you're just like, this is what I've always wanted to do. I know I'll finish the degree at some point and I'm going for it. Yeah, not really. Because in the strength and conditioning world,

it's all about who you know. It's connections, especially professionally, collegiately. Like they don't it's great to have a master's degree. But if you have experience and you know the right coaches, you're going to bypass all the people that have the proper, the more advanced education credentials, so to speak. So it's a little different. I guess it's not that different than other industries in that sense. But it's not like as a lawyer, you need to have a law degree to practice law. It's not like that. So it was a really easy decision for me at the time. My now wife and I were dating and, you know, we'd been dating for two or three years. And, you know, I kind of wanted to spend more time with her. And she was back in Albany where I

got the job. So, you know, as a 23 year old dude, it was pretty easy decision. Yeah. So, okay. So now you're at Siena and you're the strength and conditioning coach. You're obviously not still the strength and conditioning coach at Siena. So what, what happened next? How did that play out? Yeah. So I, you know, I was the strength and conditioning coach there for almost three years, about two and a half years I was the strength coach there and it was at Siena that I learned how to work really really hard if you want to make it in the fitness industry I was responsible for 19 division one athletic teams by myself and you know my day would often start at you know 5 30 a.m and um you know I'd work out I had a small break at like 11 where I'd work out and I could get some break at like 11 where I'd work out and I

could get some lunch. My day would pick back, do some programming. My day would pick back up around two and I was there until 6.30 or 7 and that was Monday through Friday. I didn't really work on Saturday or Sunday too much. The basketball coach wanted me to warm up the team before games and practices. So if they had a game on Saturday, I would go do that. But I was happy to do that because I was honestly, I still am. And I'm also an alum of the Siena College. So I'm a fan of the program as well. So, I mean, that was, that wasn't even work to me. That was just fun. But as time went by, you know, I knew that I got engaged to my, to my wife or my now wife at the time, my fiance, and I knew that I wanted to make more money.

And they didn't really give me much more money. And I was having a great old time. I was 23, 24. I was going out to the bars, racking up an enormous credit card on money with money I didn't have. But I was having a good time. And it was fun.

But I quickly realized, look, I got to make some money doing this. So I had the opportunity to go down to Marylandaryland uh the dc area in bethesda maryland i worked for this guy um jason hadid for elite athlete training systems it was called and it's too bad because he was actually he was actually murdered a year after i was hired um and i came back up here um around that time and started Phelps Gym. But what he taught me, he taught me so much about the private sector of the business. And it's a shame that he got murdered because he was such a charismatic, dynamic person. He actually would have made a phenomenal metabolic studio manager. He would have been fantastic.

But he taught me so many things about sales, uh, you know, about how to treat your clients, about how to, how to maximize your income as a personal trainer. Um, you know, the kind of car you should drive. Like he just, he was a real mentor to me and I looked up to him, to him a ton. So, um, when that all happened, um, it was very sad, but but you know I came back up here and and kind of got my Phelps gym project going which was something I had honestly planned on doing anyways it just kind of was circumstantial that his his passing occurred around that time but I had a great year in Maryland I made I made a lot of friends um a lot of the guys I worked with

for this company one of them is now the Washington Wizards strength and conditioning coach. Another guy, Colin Quay, he ended up taking over the company from Jason after he passed. This guy, Alan Stein, who was, you know, he trained Kevin Durant. He was like the basketball strength and conditioning guy. He actually, I think, does more motivational speaking. I wrote a book. It's terrible. I should name drop the book.

I forgot the name of the book. But he left the company I think it's called raise your game yes raise your game that is what it's called raise your game Alan Stein was my boss with Jason they were partners when I went down there so I know Alan and uh you know like I learned a lot from those guys and it's funny because I remember looking up to them and I think they were like 32 33 but at the time I you, you know, I had all the respect in the world and still do for them. And the experiences I had down there were great. Came back up here, though, because my wife is a teacher. I was a trainer. We quickly figured out that we could make the same income living in upstate New York and pay about half the price

that it costs to live in one of the wealthiest counties in America. Yeah. And Silver Spring, Maryland area. Definitely, definitely more expensive. I spent five years there. I also racked up an incredible amount of credit card debt. Well, it's funny, actually. So funny side note. We I hopped around when I first moved down there. I live with my buddy Scotty. And he had a great situation. We lived in a townhouse in Silver Spring. And he basically had this situation where there was three or four of us from college.

And we paid, in fairness, we paid a cheaper rent to stay with him. We each rented a room. We were paying his mortgage in his townhouse. He's a smart guy. That's Scott Hines. I stayed there with him for a bit. But then Kara came down several months later and she found on Craigslist this million dollar literally million dollar condo but the people had bought it as an investment but they wanted a young couple to house it because they

legally couldn't rent it for a year so Kara and I walked into this we lived in a million dollar condo a bathroom the biggest bathroom I'll ever have in my life like beautiful place like i didn't let any of my college friends over because i was petrified of breaking something it was unbelievably nice this place and i remember pulling into the parking garage in my like my rusty uh jeep cherokee from like 98 and i would park it between like brand new beamers lexususes, Cadillac. Like it just, my car was the only one that wasn't a luxury vehicle. So it was just really funny.

I said to Kara, I said, I think we're doing this backwards. I think the nicest place we're ever going to live in in our lives should be coming later. So yeah, very affluent area. Yeah. So you come back up to, um, you come back up to New York state. You're now back in Albany. And I know you said you started Phelps gym. What does that look like? Like when you say you started Phelps gym, like, like explain

to me what that is, because this is really the, the birthplace of what is metabolic today. And I think it's, it's interesting. And it's always been intriguing to me, like what you initially thought the focus of your training work up here was going to be. Yeah. So while I was in Maryland, you know, like, as you've learned about me, my brain, my brain works hyperspeed. I'm always looking ahead. I always look ahead, always look ahead. It's a gift and a curse at times, but, uh, you know, I've always been very visionary with what my future looks like. And I was training out of this beautiful facility down there. We had every line of Nautilus, Hammer Strength, tons of machines, Turfield. It was awesome. But I just missed the dungy, primal, you know, blue-collar

CNOA room, you know, with no AC, you know, cold in the winter, hot in the summer, like I just missed that, you know, and I got strong as hell in that gym. And when I went to Maryland, I got a little stronger down there. But I was just, I felt like something was missing. So I discovered this guy on YouTube, Joe DeFranco, who's one of the top strength coaches in the country. He's based out of northern Jersey, near where Bergen Catholic is. He trained Brian Cushing. I don't know if you remember him from the Texans, but he trained him since he was in high school. And he kind of, that's how I noticed him because I saw some clips of Brian training when he

was in, I think, college at USC in DeFranco's gym, it was called. So this guy, Joe DeFranco, I just kept seeing his warehouse style gym. I loved the look of it, loved it. So I remember Jason and I and one or two other strength coaches, I think Colin went, someone else, we drove up from, from DC to North Jersey to check it out. And the second I stepped foot in it, I was like, I want to do this and back home. Like I want to move to Albany and I want to open a warehouse style gym and just train athletes. And so that, that kind

of like got those wheels turning in my mind. Um, you know, I, I remember I went home for probably some week, long weekend or something to visit Kara and, you know, I didn't have any money. Um, but I knew like my, my grandfather might be able to help me out. My grandfather has since passed on, but, um, my grandfather was the kind of guy, you know, he was a he grew up in the Great Depression. You know, he fought in World War Two. You know, he he was the kind of guy he literally would find coins on on the road. And from January 1st of one year to December 31st to the other, he would he had a notebook and he would write down how much money he had found. And he had this like, oh, 1986 was my best year ever. Like he knew exactly how much money he had found. You know, he clipped coupons.

He worked, he was a bank inspector for like 30 years. So, you know, very, very frugal, I guess I could say. So, but I knew he had saved a little bit of money and he could possibly help me. So he sat me down. He made me present him with a business plan and I outlined everything for him. And he set up a, he didn't hook me up with the interest. He set me up with a loan, a small, it was a small loan. You know, I think it was, I think it was like 25 or $50,000. It wasn't. And for those of you listening, when you're starting your own business,

that's really, that's not a lot of cash flow you know to operate so but i was very grateful and i remember um you know being young i think i was what was i 26 27 when i started that uh i remember i paid him a payment at the very beginning like two days late and he was charging me interest nonetheless and he i remember he he got really disappointed with me like his face dropped he was charging me interest nonetheless. And he, I remember he, he got really disappointed with me. Like his face dropped, he was upset. And I remember I never did that again ever since then. And, and I took it very, as seriously as he did, but that's how I got it going. And that's how I got it off the ground. And, um, you know, Felbstream was born after that. I trained, I trained in a couple of local gyms until I found a place to rent and I rented a small,

basically it was an old flower shop in a farmer's market, but I, I turned it into what ended up being a really cool atmosphere. And it had that blue collar kind of warehousey type feel. So it all worked out in the end, but it just took a while to get there. So you're training mostly dudes and a lot of strength training at the time right if i have that right how did you get from that to some of the program-based stuff yeah so i was uh are you talking about like metabolic training yeah yeah so basically i you know i i did execute on my vision like i trained a ton of high school and college athletes and i those were really fun times you know and i actually some of our current trainers worked out with me as high school and college athletes. And that's how, you know, a bunch of our current clients.

And it's funny because that was back in 2008, 2009 when I when I started with 10 years later. I see some of these kids out and about, you know, in life now and they have kids, you know, and they're like they're men, you know. And it's just it's funny because i was i saw this one thing on instagram this one kid was like entering his last year of college i was like holy shit i trained that kid when he played pop corner football when he was like 11 yeah so it's just it's crazy but uh no so i trained a lot of high school and college football players athletes great experience but you know anyone who does this for a living you know you can't you have to diversify your your client base you know there's just not enough of them. They can only work out after school, really.

So what are you going to do the rest of the day? So I did some personal training, which I didn't love, but I did it because I had to. And, you know, one of my big things is it's so much more fun to train groups of people than to privately train. I had I made some great relationships and experiences with clients that, you know, I really looked forward to working with them and talking to them. And then you work with your people who don't really want to be there. And maybe you don't click for whatever reason. So it kind of makes the day drag on. And it's not quite as fun. So I did that.

But I was training an entire high school football team. And the moms asked me if I would start a program for them. So I said, sure. So I started this metabolic meltdown, I called it. And I kind of viewed it as like a boot camp, but I didn't take it seriously at all. And, you know, I had about 10 to 20 moms that I did this with three times a week

at 8.30 in the morning. And, you know, I kind of grew a bit, but I didn't really put any effort into growing or expanding it. Then it kind of just organically started growing a little bit. I started doing it for my wife and her friends after school and my sister and her friends. And it kind of was all women kind of kind of grew and grew and grew. And then just over time, some of the guys I was personal training, they were like, why are you training us for? I think I was charging like 40 bucks an hour for $40 when you could be training 30 of them and make way more money. This is this is your future. This is your path.

It probably took me a couple of years to really listen to them and apply what they were saying. Thankfully, I did eventually listen to them. But, you know, I just wasn't that interested in abandoning my dreams of working with athletes at that time. You know, but over time, my passion towards helping adults and the general population, I shifted that way. And eventually I made the transition over to doing all metabolic training programming. I started doing the workouts myself. I drank the Kool-Aid and really haven't looked back since. But it was kind of a natural genesis to get to that point. It was never forced. It was all genuine and authentic.

And, you know, the tipping point probably was in 2013 when my wife quit her job and I suddenly had to try and provide for the family. That really forced me to take things to a new level. Yeah. And that's really where our paths started crossed. My wife and I had been doing like a group CrossFit class at the time, which was right next to the insurance agency that she owns that I was also working at the time. And we've been taking this CrossFit class, or not CrossFit class, P90X class, sorry, P90X class, where basically the guy just showed us how to do the same stuff

that are in the videos. He's just providing you accountability. Accountability, and he was providing. And there was a group atmosphere. And it was nice to do it in person and have somebody there. And just like at a metabolic class today. And it was fun, but it was also very limiting. And he was kind of a dick.

And she eventually decided to leave. And when she left, that was probably the most intense workout she had ever done up until that point. So she was looking for something similar. And she was referred to metabolic meltdown. And I remember the very first time she went, she came back and she's like, you know, the place is kind of a shithole. But damn, it was a good workout, she goes. And you know, and in fairness, you know, it was it was an old farmer's market with truckers smoking cigarettes in the back. And but she loved it. You know, I mean, she loved how hard she was pushed in the in the way that the workout trained her. And what was wild was she started to outpace me from a fitness perspective. Like she was getting very fit, very fast, much faster than she had with the P90X. And I started to look at her going, oh, my God, my wife is going to be stronger and much more fit than me.

And not that there's a problem in that. But the competitor in me. I think that ship has sailed. Yeah, yeah. Today, she's way, way out ahead of me. You're in very good shape. But she's like the Olympian of moms. um you're you're in very good shape but she's she's like the olympian of moms yeah i know pound pound for pound she would destroy destroys me um but at the

time my ego was still of such that i was like i don't want this to happen so i remember going down there and i walked in for the first time and uh lind Lindsey and Drew were both there at that time when I first got there. Two of your two longest tenured trainers. And now Lindsey is our director of training for our expanding business. And Drew runs our largest and flagship location in Green Island. And I just remember walking in. And this is kind of where I want our conversation to swing to.

The very first time I walked in, I had no idea what to expect. And I think that's the case for a lot of people when they come to a group class. I think there's a stigma, especially for men. There certainly was for me at the time where I was like, only women take classes. I mean, I don't take classes. Guys go to the gym and do three sets of 10

and grunt and, you know, and, and look at each other while we're walking around the gym for our next set. You know what I mean? Like it flex in the mirror, like that's what you do. And, uh, you know, it's bench press, squat rack, maybe some pull-ups, and then you flex in the mirror and that's a workout. And I remember having no idea what to expect and I can't even remember what station I started at and I didn't know what half the movements were. But what I thought was really interesting was it was fun as hell. Like it just was like Drew was dancing,

Lindsey's yelling at people, you're getting everyone ordered, you know, doing that, showing everyone how to properly do the exercises. So I walked- Some things never change. I feel like that's exactly what's going at people. You're getting everyone ordered, you know, doing that, showing everyone how to properly do the exercises. So I walk. Things never change. I feel like that's exactly what's on today. But it was like, I guess my question for you is, and like as an entrepreneur and I do not

consider myself an entrepreneur, but you very much are. I think when I, when I come into many businesses and I've seen this in the insurance world, I've seen it in many of the other businesses that I've consulted with, this idea of a community is really the core of what any business is. We all have the things that we do. You help people get fit, feel better about themselves, get stronger, healthier, mentally and physically, all that kind of stuff. But ultimately, we keep

coming back because it's fun. The people are engaged, you like who you're around, they make you feel good about yourself supportive. Like, is that just something that happened organically for you? Or was it were you thinking about it? Like, how does that form for people who feel like that energy and community is missing from their business? Like, you have cultivated it now in six locations, almost 3000 members, you have 30 plus trainers who all live and breathe it. Like, back in those early days, how did you dial into that? Yeah, so I think for me, my trainers at metabolic, they know I have one hard, hard, fast rule. You need to be all in on metabolic training if you're going to work here. And the reason that's so important to me

is because I could really directly correlate when I decided to step into metabolic training and adapt it as my own training philosophy. My effort teaching the classes greatly increased. The results of the clients increased. Even though I always cared, I'm sure my passion for the training I provided them increased. We got more men coming to the gym. So that increased it. It just kind of spiraled from there. But I think it all stems from the passion of the training staff and the passion of the entrepreneur, the leader, whoever's behind all. If person isn't and people aren't stupid they know when you're not as into something or you're not super genuine about it uh it just you're never going to build that that special third place that we always talk about if you don't have the passion for what you're doing and my

passion was lacking for for some a long period of time until I decided to really take that on and say, you know, if Ryan Hanley is going to come in here with his wife and do this workout, then I'm going to do it with my wife. And suddenly we started getting other wives bring their husband in and other wives bringing their brother in or whatever else. And, you know, I think as an entrepreneur, I've made a lot of mistakes. Am I allowed to swear on here? I almost swore. Yes. I've made a shit of mistakes. Am I allowed to swear on here? I almost swore. Yeah, go ahead. I've made a shitload of mistakes over the years. But the one thing I think I've always had is this bizarre intuition, where I can kind of see the future. And I kind of know what's going to really stick on the macro on the bigger level. And I might screw up a little bit in the application

of that. But in my mind, I tend to know what's going to work. And at that time, people like to rag on CrossFit. But I have to say, like, nobody really built communities in the boutique fitness space the way that CrossFit did. They really defined how to do that. And I really always loved that. And I respected that. And I think that was always on my mind that I want to do what they do. But I want to offer a program that's more applicable to the masses and a little bit safer and enjoyable. And that's really how it all started. But I did recognize very early on that community was important. I also recognized that if I was going to build a community, I needed to be a part of the community. Yeah. So one of the things that you just brought up, and actually

before I go there, I do want to reiterate the fact that I, and I've actually written about this. And just so everyone knows, our audio engineer yelled at us to turn our phones off. And that was his phone going off. I'm curious as to why his alarm was going off at 10.45 a.m. It's time to go kayaking. Is that what it is? So you guys will get to know Kyle Yagielski as we go, our audio engineer here. But so, you know, one of the things that I think,

and I've actually written about this since I started working here, cause it's one of the things that I've always, uh, that's always enamored me to the place is, is you do the workouts. And that seems, I literally did a video on my, on my YouTube channel about this particular aspect of our business was like, you, you, this is how you get fit. Like metabolic, you don't teach metabolic classes and then go three sets of 10 on the bench. And that's like, you get fit, you stay fit, you stay strong because you do these workouts. So on any given day, someplace in, in one of the five local locations here in Albany, someone could be working out right next to you or right

next to Drew or right next to Tim O'Connor or Kelsey or any of our other trainers who are going to at some point in their day, depending on what their schedule is going to get their workout in. And that part of it to me has always been so meaningful as a client, because I tell you this all the time, like I never want to lose the client mentality, because I think it allows me to try to empathize with how decisions we make in the business impact the clients. And that has always been something that's enamored. I, I guess, you know, when did that hit you that that was a crux of this business? Like, I think so many other trainers and I now I watch so many on Instagram and so many on YouTube and stuff. I'm watching so much stuff. It feels like that isn't intuitive for a lot of people. They have their way of

training and then they'll train other people in different styles and not in a nefarious way. Just they don't always seem to be locked into one thing. You've locked into metabolic and said, this is a key part of it. You have to do the workout. And what was when did that hit you? What was the thought process? What was the genesis of that? Yeah.

So basically, you know, like I said, I think we would both admit that anyone in my shoes, you know, deep down inside the impact of performing the workout is going to have on people. I always knew that if I was ever going to take it to the next level, that I needed to experience this and I needed to genuinely believe in it. But I'll be honest with you. At the time, I was the three sets of time guy. I was doing the bro splits and I'd been doing that for years. And, you know, there's a genetic limitation that we all have. Right. Like in this in this lifetime of how much muscle we can build. I've been lifting for 20 years and I look like I play soccer. So, I mean, there's a there's a limit to it. But at the

same time, I was watching some of these women get like upper back development and delts and glutes. And those are the three muscle groups we always see. Lindsay and I talk about that a lot, that we see the most development in. But I was watching it and we were growing, but it was a lot of women. And you were one of maybe like five dudes there. Interestingly enough, all five are still with us, which is pretty crazy, but pretty cool, too. But I was like, I made Drew Smith one of my first trainers. And as you alluded to, one of our studio managers at our flagship location, I made him do it with me.

Now, this is a former. He drew played collegiate football at the Division One level at his university, the University of Albany. He was the all time leading scorer, played in 2013 with the Buffalo Bills in the preseason before he suffered an injury that had to end his career short. But so Drew, in other words, Drew's a beast. Yeah, super beast. He's a beast. He didn't want to do it, though, and I made him do it. I made him do it three days a week, and I did it too. And I was like, dude, this is what we're doing.

The plan is we're going to get men to do this workout, and they're going to see us doing it. The women are going to talk. And they're going to bring their husbands in. I shit you not, that is exactly what happened. Yeah. Exactly what happened. And it took about a month.

And we started seeing men come in, men come in, men come in. And then a funny thing happened, though. Drew and I started getting in better shape. And we started getting stronger in that functional way that metabolic allows you to gain strength when you're in a fatigue state. And we were building muscle and getting more ripped. And we were just hooked. And we haven't looked back ever since. And that that passion really sparked my belief that for the busy man, the busy woman, metabolic training is the answer because I'm just like you. I'm just like anybody else. I'm a dad. I have a pretty demanding job that chews up a lot

of my day. I don't have three hours to work out in the gym. Not only that, but even if I did, I think this is a better system for most people to build muscle and to gain strength, improve their mobility, improve their conditioning, get that athletic look that they want. I think this is the I genuinely think this is the best way to do it. And that's part of my my sales approach is I'm not BSing people. I'm not just saying this just to say it. I'm saying it because I'm genuine. You know, I'm not a very gifted salesman, but I've grown a pretty successful business simply based on the fact that anyone who talks to me knows the passion that I have for this style of training. And I have that passion because it works. Yeah. You know, not to not to oversell metabolic or anything, but I you know, I was a college athlete.

I was never overly athletic. I had some decent hand-eye coordination and maybe decent fast twitch muscles for a small period of time. And I like to believe that I worked kind of hard, but I'm not in any regard someone that you would consider athletic. And then when you're on, when you're in the gym and you're working out and you see yourself like, this workout's good enough for a former Buffalo Bill, the greatest sports team in the history of the world, certainly the best uniforms. Kyle's nodding. Go Bills. And you see him pushing himself through this workout and struggling, but doing the workout. It's hard for you to say that the workout's not good enough for you, right? It's really hard. The other side of it is, and this is, this is like, when people ask me,

like, what is it about metabolic? I just say, like, I walk differently. Like I walk shoulders back. I walk more confidently. I don't, I'm not like favoring a knee or a back or something like your, your body just feels more in tune. You feel like you're using all your muscles. You're not favoring things because of, of just this total body functional strength. And it really is quite, it's amazing, man. I mean, I've been doing it for six years, six years now. And I look forward to every workout, you know, I work out four, sometimes five days a week. Um, and mostly I don't do more because our, we have a lot going on sometimes. But it's just, it is, it's pretty incredible what you've built. And the product certainly speaks for itself.

Yeah. And I think we've worked really hard to educate people as to what metabolic training is. Even if you go back to 2016, 2017, we had scores of people joining the gym. But some of these people would come in and they'd be like, that was a good workout. I'm going to go lift tomorrow. And I kept hearing this from people again and again. I was like, what do you mean you're going to go lift tomorrow? Like we just lifted like this. This is lifting. And so this past year, I've put a huge emphasis on educating people about what metabolic training is. And, you know, in one sentence, metabolic training is strength training at a pace, you know, and, and by doing that, I've kind of made people realize like, huh, I don't need to go to the gym and do traditional lifting if I work hard in metabolic.

And what I like so much about it is, you know, you can go to the gym and you can squat 300 pounds. If you can't perform a set of squats with a 100 pound kettlebell when you're fatigued, how much do you think that strength of being able to squat 300 pounds is going to translate into a real life scenario where you have to actually do something? Because I don't know about you, I'm going to take the person who's very physically fit and strong and is able to combine those as a person that's going to really be able to apply that strength. And I kind of hate the word functional, but it's applicable here in a functional way that allows them to really maximize whatever they're trying to do in life on a day to

day basis. So there's no doubt that metabolic, both the workout philosophy itself and the business is a it's a great product. It just is. Uh, if you look at our retention numbers, you look at just the growth curve, you look at the interest we've already had in the expansion efforts that we're putting in place. Um, as we start our, our, uh, I think you've switched it from project world domination to infinity and beyond, uh, which I'm okay with either. So for those people listening out there, there's a lot of people with good products who don't have the success that you've had. So if I'm listening to this podcast and I'm going, okay, this guy's got a great origin story.

It's interesting. I get it. He's been entrepreneurial. He ate shit for a long time, and now he's starting to reap some of the benefit of, of all how all his history stacked up to put him in the right place at the right time to grow metabolic. And he's got a great product. I think there are a lot of people that probably share similar, similar origin stories and backgrounds and possibly even have a solid product, just like Metabolic, but have not seen the success or the growth that you have. So I'm very interested in your take on how you've taken what is a very good product that people want to come back for, want to use, there's a need and a desire in the market for it,

but you've been able to take that kind of pent-up potential and turn it into, actually turn it into real-world success for a sustained basis. How the hell did you do that? Yeah, so I think this is an easy answer, but it's not a brief answer. But it really comes down to the you have to be a good, effective leader. And that's really the first thing, you know, like if I was suggesting a young entrepreneur do anything, read a book on leadership, listen to a leadership podcast like, you know, like this one, you know, like being a good, effective leader will get you so far. So there's a couple of things that went

with being a leader that I always remembered and I still try to apply today is lead from the front. You have to be the hardest working person on your team, right? Because you're setting the tone, you're creating a culture. So everybody is going to do what you do. They're going to follow what you do. If you don't work hard, they're not going to work hard and you're going to have nothing. So you have to be willing. It seems obvious, but you have to be willing to bust your ass and you have to. It's 24-7 for us. You know, it's not, you know, we go home at five and the day's over. It's never over. It's at least for me, it's not in my mind. Like it's always like unless I'm occupied with my son or talking to my brother on the phone, I'm I'm I'm just business

all the time, you know, and that's not probably what everybody wants to hear, but that's the truth. And I think that's how you kind of have to be when you're starting a new business from the ground up. You have to have that drive and that work ethic to get there. Part of being a good leader is having good self-awareness and identifying your strengths and weaknesses. And one of the things that I've been able to do, I don't know how to run podcasts or edit videos. So I hire people to do that because want to know why? They're better at it than I am. And I know that, you know, you know, I hired you because I viewed you as an excellent marketer with who's extremely

extroverted, well-spoken, excellent in sales, those are areas that I'm not as strong in, you know, you and I are similar in many ways. And we're very different in a lot of ways, too. And you're you're a far more extroverted type of person, which I knew, you know, as a CEO, you kind of have to have that quality to you, if you're gonna, you got to be able to work a room, you got to be able to go to a golf outing, things like that. And people are metabolic. Maybe they'll be surprised to know this. Maybe not. Maybe they could probably just guess. But I'm actually I'm pretty introverted guy. Like I don't I don't I actually prefer to public speak or I love this podcast. This is great. What I hate doing is working a room at a social function. I hate that.

Like that that drains energy out of me. And that's why I think I didn't like personal training so much, really, to be honest. Like it sounds funny and against the nature of it. But when I was personal training people, I just found that to be incredibly draining. And when I'm a group coach, I just love the energy of pouring myself into that. It's a less personal connection, even though we make it personal. In the one-to-one, it's a little less personal. But I think getting back to what you'd asked me, delegate stuff out to people who are better than you.

Bust your ass and just create that culture in your workplace that is going to allow you to succeed. I see so many people that are just greedy, though, and you have to be able to share the pie. It's like I keep using the share the pie example because the Cowboys holdout is going on right now, and Jerry Jones is always talking about the pie, and I'm going to mess these guys. Barry, is it Barry Jones? Whatever.

They've got a good cornerback. They have Jalen Smith, the linebacker. They have Amari Cooper. They have Zeke Elliott. These are all very good players. And Zeke Elliott's holding out, trying to take take pie. And he's holding out. And Jerry Jones is giving away the pie. So I always that's in my head right now. But I'm just kind of always I'm willing to share the pie and willing to strongly incentivize people and to allow people to take a little bit of ownership and pride over something that we built. Because I don't like saying that I built this because I didn't build this. I had a lot of help from a lot of people who have a share of the pie, so to speak, including my sister and my wife. And I always have had that team feel to this. It's not me. It's us.

And we're doing this together. And if we're going to fight this war, then I'm going to be in the trenches with you guys. And we're going to do this together. And that's just in a nutshell. I hope I properly depicted my philosophy and my views on leadership as well. But I think to be an effective leader, you got to live the life, you got to be in the trenches and you can't just dole out orders.

You can't be insecure about, you know, what people think of your job title. I don't give a shit about job titles. You know that I could care less or how much money you make or the car you drive. It means nothing compared to the reputation you can build through effective leadership strategies and techniques and just practicing what you preach.

Yeah, I'm I don't this is not meant to to stroke your ego, as you know, that I'm perfectly willing to disagree with you as we've we've we've worked. You're an extrovert. That's why I hired you. Many different things. But I actually think there's a couple other things that you that you didn't touch on. And this is one of the reasons why I've saved your interview for the last of this launch week, because, you know, we, we knew each other. And we had were, you know, we, I think we were friends but not close friends when you sat me down and offered me this position.

And so I've gotten to know you, but we've probably talked on the phone 17 times a day every day for the last seven plus months and gotten to know each other pretty well. And some of the things that I have been most enamored by and really what I see as having taken you from a good quality product to actual success, like having that translated are a couple of things. One, you handle people disagreeing with you very well. I have, you know, this is my third executive position in a company, and I can tell you that most people in your position do not do that very well. So if I'm sitting at home and I'm listening to this podcast and I'm saying, what can I do to start to translate my business to the next level? So, so I'm good at X. I have a good product that does X and I need to take it to the left. The first thing I would think about if I were learning

from you would be, um, we were disagreeing this morning on different things, right? And not disagreeing, like we're yelling at each other, but like, hey, have you thought through this? How does this work? I'm not sure that that would work. And what I found very interesting and one of the reasons, which, I mean, not that I would be not excited to be here, but one of the things that keeps me so energized is that I can come to you and say, dude, I'm not sure that we've thought all the way through this. And you're not like, nope, screw you. This is what I wanna do. This is what we're doing.

It's okay, let's back up and talk about that and figure it out. I think that's a huge key that most people in your position, most true entrepreneurs, they don't do. They think their vision is the only way. And true, you have a strong opinion and a strong feel. And ultimately at the end of the day,

if you wanna go a direction, that's the way we're going. But I do think that the ability to listen and debate and discuss and allow others to poke holes in your in your in your thought process only makes the idea stronger. And I think that's how we've gotten to some of the to the place we are so quickly. I mean, you know, you guys were in the very, very early stages of franchising when I got here and were in full-blown expansion mode at this point and have iterated two or three times in that process and only for the better, only to make it a more sound product and a more sound experience. I think that's very interesting.

I do think I have seen another aspect of you as an entrepreneur, which I think that's very interesting. I do think I have seen, you know, another aspect of you as an entrepreneur, which I think is very rare, is I've watched you give up not just like some money, but legitimate real money in the short term for what ultimately you believe will be a long term payout and long term security for your family. That shit does not happen very often. I mean, I have, I've watched, I've been part of CEOs who will literally gimmick scheme, cheat, steal, lie to make sure that they get theirs first before anyone else. And, um, because they're the entrepreneur, they're the person and, and that what they deserve, because it's their idea. And that that I think, is something that the reason we're going to be successful in large

part is because you're playing that long game. And the third thing that if I were at home, and I was like writing the three entrepreneur leadership lessons I learned from you, the third one would be your willingness to take risks. Hiring me was a risk. I've never been a CEO before. For the most part, like you said, I'm a sales and marketing guy. That was a risk. Taking on a content forward approach is a risk.

Starting a Liverpool location, when you knew you've admitted you guys weren't ready, ready to open that location, but you also knew it was important for your business to be out there and to be outside the capital district. And you did it. We spend money on things. We try things. And when they don't work, we stop and we pivot. And I think that that willingness to take smart risks, not stupid risks, but but smart calculated risks is something

that again, if I'm handicapping, or doing the biography at home, the things that I've been the most enamored by and the things that I've learned from you are that these type of smart calculated risks, you have to take them. If you play it smart, that good product never actually has a chance. It just it's just always going to be this little thing. And if you desire to be more, you have to take those chances. So I have been I wanted to share that with you because I think, you know, I learn from you every single day. And I think that that what you're doing here and the way that you're operating this business

is very, very special. I appreciate that. Those are super kind words. And I just think, you know, I have a lot of I've always been enamored by even as a little kid, just military history and just that I wanted to be a soldier when I was a little older, that changed. But even in college, I remember there was a moment in time where I considered applying to officer candidate school as a senior in high school during that or excuse me, college during that 11. So, you know, I'm glad I didn't go that route, to be honest with you, even though I have all the respect in the world for the men and women that service every day. But, you know, I like to really make a lot of analogies to I like to think of the movie like 300. And I just think about, you know, like just being we don't have a big team, but we have a strong team and there's no weak links in our team. And, you know, for me, I just think like you've got to be if you're an entrepreneur and you're not willing to bet on yourself, then you're not really an entrepreneur. You know, you've got to

be willing to to bet on yourself and to and to and to have that level of confidence. There is nothing that I am as confident about as I am that metabolic is going to do what we say it's going to do someday. I know it in my heart. I know it in my gut. I know it. And I want my employees to know that, you know, and I just think that put your money where your mouth is, you know, just back it, work hard and it will happen. And I think that, you know, if I'm your leader, and I'm taking from you, what kind of leadership is that, you know? But what if I'm your leader, and I give? What if I'm your leader, and I don't put myself in front of you when I stand next to you? You know, what kind of message does that send to your employees? And what does that make them

want to do for you? It makes, I'll tell you what it does. It makes them want to run through a wall for you. And it makes them extremely loyalty to the brand that you've built. And it gives them a sense of ownership of it, which is what I want. This isn't just mine anymore. It's much bigger than me. And I should probably knock on wood, but it's at the point now where if something were to happen to me tomorrow, you know, this is going to go on, you know, and that's a really pretty cool feeling for me to reflect upon and think about. And I think a lot

of that comes from the culture that we've created here. And that comes from that sense of, you know, you have to be willing to take a risk. But I think subtly, too, when you're an entrepreneur and you take calculated risks, you're also communicating to your team that you believe in them, too, and that you want to go fight that fight with them because you think you're going to win, you know, and that's, that's really where I'm at. So, you know, I've always, like I said earlier, I've always seen the big picture. I have a, I guess the CEO side of me, I do have a macro view of things. I have a vision and I know to get there. I'm not if I nickel and dime everything along the way, we're never going to get there. I know, obviously, who has the most to gain financially. It's me. So I'm the one who should be putting up the most at the beginning.

And that's what I that's what I've tried to do. And I've tried to share as much as I can. I've tried to incentivize as much as I can. You know, and I do see you and I share the same philosophy with hiring. We get talented people that come in here. I'm like Kyle here, you know, and I see a 22 year old kid come into an interview and he reminds me of somebody who's 10 years older in terms of his his work ethic. And I don't see a lot of 22 year old kids these days that are willing to like roll up their sleeves and get after it. You know, I just you just really don't see that a lot. So a lot of people that come in here, I don't know what I'm going to do with them. But I know I want them. I know I want them in my shield ball in the movie 300. That's what I know. Hire the people, not the position. Exactly. And you know, with you, I kind of I did you kind of sell yourself a little bit short here, but I did both with you. I just knew that this was a guy I wanted to be a part of this and I wanted to empower you.

I wanted to let you take some ownership of it. And, you know, hopefully we do this thing. But I think just from a leadership, because I know you want to talk about leadership a lot on this podcast. I think, you know, you've got to always align yourself with your people and not in front of your people. And I've seen poor management in the past. And, you know, I remember one situation. This is just a quick side note of how I feel. I watched a group of people give an employee at a company a Dunkin Donuts gift card and I remember watching one of the superior officers of that company come in to take the Dunkin Donuts gift card to get coffee and it made me so pissed off it really pissed me off

because I was just thinking to myself like what kind of leader are you you are taking from your people yeah not only is it showing that you're weak because you're that desperate to use a $2 coffee on the gift card that's for the employees, but it shows that you're not on their team. You're just like, fuck you guys. I'm just going to get mine. It's something minor, but it always stuck with me. And I really vowed to myself that I was grateful that I will never be that way. You know, and I will always do anything I can for anybody that works for me, as long as they share the same values that I do. Dude, this has been great.

I'm glad that we were able to share your story with the audience and connect with people. And I think, man, I think that you have a very humble style of leadership that if more... That's one that maybe some of the guys might disagree with you in terms of the style. Well, yeah, no, this is completely different if you're a trainer because then you get right up in their ass. A humbly intense style.

Yeah, but no, but I think having watched you, I think it's an enviable leadership style that I wish more people took the same vantage point as you do. And it's one of the reasons why I'm so glad that inside our company, we've invested in getting your story more out into the world. You're creating great content on Instagram. A lot of it is focused around the workout, but you also share a lot of your own philosophy and beliefs as well. So I want to make sure

if you're listening to this, instagram.com forward slash metabolic Matt, follow along there. Matt Phelps fit is your personal blog. Also train metabolic.com. If you want to learn about what we're doing from metabolic standpoint, and if you want to be involved in this business on a deeper level, you can go to metabolic invest.com. Um, I highly, highly recommend following along with Matt's journey, connecting with him. You're not going to be disappointed, um, that you did that you, that you took the time to follow him on social. Dude, huge pleasure, man. Thank you. Yeah, thanks a lot, man. I just wanted to add real quick, you know, I think, you know, in closing, I really appreciate you having me on here. And

there's basically two things that I've done that there's nothing special about me, really. I mean, I'm a dime a dozen. But the two things that I've done, I've worked very hard. And I've tried to treat people kindly and with respect. And I think if you do those two things, I've done, I've worked very hard and I've tried to treat people kindly and with respect. And I think if you do those two things, you're going to succeed in life. I really feel that way. No doubt, brother. Thank you. Thanks, man. Close twice as many deals by this time next week.

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